Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: rpm on March 22, 2005, 03:12:51 PM
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I set a new personal record today. I paid $2.07 for a gallon of regular. I could not help but think "we have captured the world's 2nd largest oil supply and %#@!&% gas is $2.07 a gallon". I smell a big fat rat.
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$2.10 here.
Can go to the res for $2.00.
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$6.50 / gal here. Quit whining.
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$2.29 for regular
heck, i can not remember milwaukee area being below $2 for at least a year...
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wheres here eagl ?
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yet another arguement for getting our arse off of the oil crackpipe.
unfortunately we wont get too serious about it until we have to take out a second mortgage on the house for a cross country trip.
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$2.08 here. I think it's time we fought a real war for oil.
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Cry me a river, build a bridge, and get over it. ~$2.00 has been normal for a few years now.
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No blood for oil.
Wonder how long that chant will last
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well, so long as pinheads will pay and resist the idea of change...its gonna go up and up.
write your congessman. tell em you want alternative energy.
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$2.49 here for low test.
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It's a waste of time to complain about it anyways. Why? Because you will complain today, then in a couple of weeks you accept it and move on until the next price increase.
Rinse and repeat. It has been like that since 1974.
We are sheep, here us baaaaa.
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Gas should go to $4 a gallon.
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People complain about Pres. Bush.
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it is sad but the skuzzmeister speaks the truth.
what bugs me about it is just how right he is. what can we really do?
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Originally posted by JB88
well, so long as pinheads will pay and resist the idea of change...its gonna go up and up.
write your congessman. tell em you want alternative energy.
Its not just energy.
Plastic is a byproduct of oil too.
Dont wanna support the oil industry. give up all things plastic.
Now look around you and see how much stuff is made outof plastic.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
It's a waste of time to complain about it anyways. Why? Because you will complain today, then in a couple of weeks you accept it and move on until the next price increase.
Rinse and repeat. It has been like that since 1974.
We are sheep, here us baaaaa.
striking skuzzy off of the "people's revolution" list.
:cool:
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Originally posted by JB73
what bugs me about it is just how right he is. what can we really do?
Nothing.
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Originally posted by JB73
it is sad but the skuzzmeister speaks the truth.
what bugs me about it is just how right he is. what can we really do?
make up your mind that it is wrong to continue to use non replenishable forms of fuel and begin to press for alternative energy research and implimentation.
even speaking of it socially is a part of the solution as it sets things in motion eventually.
cause and effect.
skuzzy is right though...if we accept it, nothing will change...and most people dont like change.
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Originally posted by JB73
it is sad but the skuzzmeister speaks the truth.
what bugs me about it is just how right he is. what can we really do?
Buy bigger cars which consume more fuel :)
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So you spent over $20.00 for a tank of gas. I use diesel and when you buy about 250 gallons at a whack it really hurts. :eek: I do an internet search and look for the lowest prices in the areas we visit. It can save $20 to $40, enough for a dinner.
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$1.99 here.
Prices always go up a month or two before the summer vacationing season starts.
Coincidence?
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i have been strongly considering researching the cost for a storage like they used to have on the farm...wonder if i could same some bones that way.
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Here in crazy Illinois, price flucuates between 2.00 to 2.49.
So it's an extra dollar, just tell your kid to walk to practice, get him in shape. Or have your friends pick you up.
Thats what I do.
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$6.50 / gal here. Quit whining.
Funny thing is you pay no more for a gallon of crude oil than we do... no taxation without representation is why we left the Island in search of our own little slice of the pie. :D
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Originally posted by VWE
no taxation without representation is why we left the Island in search of our own little slice of the pie. :D
No, the pilgrims left England for other reasons, including religous. We fought for our independence with a main reason being no taxation without representation.
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Saudi Arabia's oil minister, Ali Naimi, predicts that prices will be in the $40-$50 range for the foreseeable future; the futures market is suggesting that no relief is in sight from the $55 level; the Department of Energy agrees; David O'Reilly, CEO of ChevronTexaco warns, "The time when we could count on cheap oil...is clearly ending"; and there is talk on the street of $80 oil.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/15/opinion/main680225.shtml
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i drive a honda, 32 mpg, i worry about my gas going stale.
it's you road warriors with your 400 hp tire burners that need to worry about the price of gas.
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if my prius ever arrives... 65mpg baby :D
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Quick questions
How many of you bought a car or truck in the last 4 years ?
Did ya care what the MPG was??
Most folks I know bought without careing
When I was 16 I was working for $2.30 an hour (min wage when I was in High School) and gas was right at $1.00 a gal. so I could buy 2.3 gal for an hour of work, my 68 Tempest got 10 MPG
Now how many gal. will an hour of the new min wage get you.
BTW I bought a 3/4 ton 4X4 this year but I did get a Diesel that gets around 18 mpg combined.
We will take it untill it hurts as long as we can still buy the stuff remember the gas lines of the 70's and the limits that you could buy.
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Forcing everyone into unsafe uncomfortable little tin can go-karts isn't the answer.
Either taking control of the oil fields or finding another source of energy (hodrogen?) is the answer.
J_A_B
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Get used to it. OPEC is now stating that they have barely a million barrels/day of production to add.
We all know what happens when demand goes up and supply goes down.
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One thing I find odd is why we have not stepped up American production. In the 70's they shut down wells that were producing less than 12 barrels a day saying the price of oil was too low to make them profitable. It was under $15 a barrel. There are 1000's of them in North Texas alone that could be pumping today, but are still shut in.
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""Forcing everyone into unsafe uncomfortable little tin can go-karts isn't the answer. ""
sorry hot rod kid, but this is 2005 and you need to face reality and reprogram that tire burning, gas guzzlin, duel four barrel carb brain of yours.
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Originally posted by john9001
""Forcing everyone into unsafe uncomfortable little tin can go-karts isn't the answer. ""
sorry hot rod kid, but this is 2005 and you need to face reality and reprogram that tire burning, gas guzzlin, duel four barrel carb brain of yours.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/612_1111539348_vic1.jpg)
Lord Vader, your car is ready
Son, do you think I would be fool enough to put my wife and kids in a 40mpg, tin foil death trap?
I could care less if gas goes to $10 a gallon. Would saving a few bucks on fuel be any consolation at the funeral home?
I own two of these bad boys.
There's a reason tanks have armor, bucko. :aok
Regards,
Sun
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Originally posted by eagl
$6.50 / gal here. Quit whining.
Only 50 cents for the gas...$6.00 in tax
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Originally posted by rpm
One thing I find odd is why we have not stepped up American production. In the 70's they shut down wells that were producing less than 12 barrels a day saying the price of oil was too low to make them profitable. It was under $15 a barrel. There are 1000's of them in North Texas alone that could be pumping today, but are still shut in.
Lack of refineries. We haven't built a refinery since the 70's.
We can pump a couple billion barrels a day, it wouldn't matter we can't refine it. If you mention refinery the Sierra club chits it's self.
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Originally posted by weaselsan
Only 50 cents for the gas...$6.00 in tax
In point of fact one guy here in Florida a few years ago had the actual price of gas on his sign, and in very small letters at the bottom had "plus tax" which almost all other commodities do.
Funny thing....they told him it was a violation of both State and Federal Law. And made him change the sign...why is that?
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Originally posted by weaselsan
Lack of refineries. We haven't built a refinery since the 70's.
We can pump a couple billion barrels a day, it wouldn't matter we can't refine it. If you mention refinery the Sierra club chits it's self.
Heh. Looks like New joisey may have ya.s by the balls.
We have refineries.
:D
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Texas has refineries a plenty. Ever been to Houston? It's a good point, tho. The refineries operating at capacity have trouble meeting the demand. But remember ENRON and the California power shortage? It was all fabricated to increase profit. I'm tellin ya, big fat rat.
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Jees,
You got the cheapest petrol, you drive cars that burn it at a stupid rate, you pump the byproducts into the atmosphere seemingly without any penalty and you are complaining!!!!!!!
You chaps are never happy!
Here is the solution. ( no it doesn't hasve to be a bike its the technology thats the important bit )
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7206396/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4353853.stm
Develop this power plant and the middle east loses its strangle hold on us all!
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50 mph/ 100 mile range.
Yea that would be handy for..............nothing.
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In the late 70s, early 80s remember the "gas shortage" and the hikes, lines, etc?
I was going to the ports in Houston, Galveston, etc.
The tug boat operators were making a killing. Not from using the tugs to position ships, but to carry tanker crews back and forth from ship to port.
We talked to a lot of the crew members. They were in lines , anchored just over jurisdiction lines. Some of the crews had been at anchor 2 to 3 months because they would not let them enter and offload.
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Originally posted by J_A_B
Forcing everyone into unsafe uncomfortable little tin can go-karts isn't the answer.
Either taking control of the oil fields or finding another source of energy (hodrogen?) is the answer.
J_A_B
It isnt just the fuel that is or will be effected there are some 500,000 byproducts of the oil industry Such as plastics as I mentioned before. Just sit in your chair and take a good look around you and see how many things are made out of plastic
"Byproducts of oil: Cost and decreasing availability of 500,000 known uses of oil: Fertilizers (farms/food supply), medicines, plastics, insulation, computers, asphalt, inks & toners, paints, glues, solvents, antiseptics, golf balls, CDs trash bags, nail polish, detergents, chewing gum, etc.
Dunno hydrogen may not be the answer either
"Hydrogen
Current global use: 23 billion cu. ft a day in 1998. (Was quoted at http://buscom.com/editors/RC-219.html)
Conversion calculator at http://www.hionsolar.com/n-heq1.html (1 cu. ft = 0.0000466 barrel of crude oil.)
As a replacement for oil: Existing vehicles and aircraft and existing distribution systems are not suited to it. "Hydrogen , while very abundant on earth , almost never exists as a free gas, so other hydrogen compounds need to be treated in order to make hydrogen gas. Currently the treatment of methane with steam is used to produce the hydrogen gas ( CH4 (g) + H2O = 3H2 (g) + CO (g) ) (Zumdahl,1997) but this reaction requires a lot of energy to make the hydrogen gas . It is currently more economical to simply burn the methane instead of using it to get the hydrogen used for fuel. In addition, this method of achieving hydrogen endorses a reliance upon natural gas as well as producing Carbon Monoxide as a byproduct." http://darwin.bio.uci.edu/~sustain/global/sensem/Forrest98.htm Liquid hydrogen occupies eleven times the space of equivalent gasoline or diesel: http://www.energy.ca.gov/afvs/vehicles.html#500 David Pimentel states on pg. 212 of Food, Energy, and Society, revised edition "that the volume of hydrogen fuel is about 4 times greater for the same energy content of gasoline (8000 kcal/liter versus 2030 kcal/liter)."
The Oil Crash and you (http://greatchange.org/ov-thomson,convince_sheet.html)
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I don't see what yr *****ing about. Pilots have been paying $3.50 + a gal for over 3 years now. And we burn a car tanks worth in under an hour.
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I get 100LL for only $2.92 (self serve)...its odd here, auto gas is up about $0.30 in the last few weeks, but 100LL is only up $0.07...also odd, I can fuel my plane, but not my car...same in NJ? no self serve auto, but self serve aircraft is OK?...I see it is so at Trenton
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Originally posted by Sundowner
Son, do you think I would be fool enough to put my wife and kids in a 40mpg, tin foil death trap?
Regards,
Sun [/B]
Do you really think your antique car (it may be this years model but technic is from eighties) gives better protection than, say, a BMW 530D?
BMW 530D
218hp/500 Nm
0-100kmh 7,1sec, top speed 245kmh.
Consumes 6,9liters of diesel in 100km.
For you Amurricans that's
218hp/370lbft
0-62mph 7,1sec, top speed 152mph
34miles per gallon
I like old American cars; member of our club is having a '80 Park Avenue with +400hp 455cid (from Lindman Racing) but even with all that iron around I'd rather crash in my Peugeot 307 (http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_ratings/details.php?id1=2&id2=107) with 6 airbags and hi-tension steel frame and other safety cadgets.
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Well its kinda strange. My homebase on the east coast is $3.51 at KBDR, and $4.07 for Jet A without Prist. On the west coast i'm just over $3.00 at KRHV and a little less for Jet A.
We've got some stations in the bay area that are over $3.00 a gal for 87/91
Go figure.
Wolfala
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http://www.ybiofuels.org/bio_fuels/history_diesel.html
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Jackal1 are you realy that foolish that you want to be beholden to Arab oil producing nations, poisoning the atmosphere, and paying a fortune in taxes for ever and ever amen?
If the money and time spent on developing oil burning technology was put into the alternatives we'd have fuel cell vehicles with thousands of miles range. I'm pretty sure of that. Why hasn't it happened? because Oil barons company execs have a vested interest in us buying their product lining their already too fat pockets and we are too bloody enslaved to oil to be able to do anything about it. Apart from maybe those clever guys working on fuel cells with a fraction of the resources that Oil companies seem to have.
Besides its not my fault you live in a ridiculously underpopulated country that is way too big for your needs! 100 mile range is ok for a commuter bike here. And if you read the article range can be increased by adding more cells.;)
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Skydancer...were I to ride one of those cutesy bikes around here to work, several things would happen.
a.) I would be laughed at horribly.
b.) I would get run over by grandma in her SUV.
Neither prospect seems all that enticing. Rode a bike years ago, but traffic here in town has grown exponetially, and I'm just not getting on the road in a death trap. So I'll keep my car which gets me about 19 mpg in the city and suck up the fact that I will be paying more of my paycheck out just to get to work.
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That "cutsey bike" is just a test bed. Cmon guys don't tell me you think that is the be all and end all of fuel cell power! Its the begining. A bit like comparing
(http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mcmuseum/mcphotos/lowtech.jpg)
to
(http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mcnuts/mcphotos/tokyo8.jpg) (radical chopper custom thing for you yanks;)
Its the begining of something. Now what if your SUV was powered by a fuel cell that could also power a boat a plane, your generator, making power for the house, etc etc.
You can make 100hp fuel cells not much bigger than the one in that bike! 100hp is enough for a motorcycle to do 150mph or so. SoI'm pretty sure that a bigger cell with 200hp or whatever will give plenty of oomph for four wheels.
I'm not saying its practical at the mo just that it is the future I'd like to see come sooner rather than later.
Much better than paying huge tax and poluting the bloody world huh?
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So right staga... some people realy don't have a clue.
Safety has far less to do with mass and size than people think. Both in active (brake distance, etc) and passive safety (rigidity of frame, airbags, crunchzones, etc).
Paying at the moment 6,7$ (5 €) per gallon.
Originally posted by Staga
Do you really think your antique car (it may be this years model but technic is from eighties) gives better protection than, say, a BMW 530D?
BMW 530D
218hp/500 Nm
0-100kmh 7,1sec, top speed 245kmh.
Consumes 6,9liters of diesel in 100km.
For you Amurricans that's
218hp/370lbft
0-62mph 7,1sec, top speed 152mph
34miles per gallon
I like old American cars; member of our club is having a '80 Park Avenue with +400hp 455cid (from Lindman Racing) but even with all that iron around I'd rather crash in my Peugeot 307 (http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_ratings/details.php?id1=2&id2=107) with 6 airbags and hi-tension steel frame and other safety cadgets.
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Strange that as a nation that ostensibly takes pride in its efficiency and productivity, the US has seemingly so far failed to embrace fuel efficiency in automobiles.
Time to join the 21st century guys. :p
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:lol
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Originally posted by bunch
I get 100LL for only $2.92 (self serve)...its odd here, auto gas is up about $0.30 in the last few weeks, but 100LL is only up $0.07...also odd, I can fuel my plane, but not my car...same in NJ? no self serve auto, but self serve aircraft is OK?...I see it is so at Trenton
Wish I could answer but Im not a pilot so I dont know if self serve is ok for aircraft.
Gas around here ranges from about $1.89-$2.00 depending on where you go.
Couple of weeks ago I got it for $1.59.
LOL No Self serve gas stations in New Jersey.
But that doesnt bother me.
why would anyone WANT to have to pump their own gas?
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Originally posted by Staga
I like old American cars; member of our club is having a '80 Park Avenue with +400hp 455cid (from Lindman Racing) but even with all that iron around I'd rather crash in my Peugeot 307 (http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_ratings/details.php?id1=2&id2=107) with 6 airbags and hi-tension steel frame and other safety cadgets.
Yes but if one were to crash into the other I'd rather be in the tank:)
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Simple answer don't crash and you'll be fine!
Oh and what about the poor fuggers who get run over by your tank when you do?
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Originally posted by Skydancer
Simple answer don't crash and you'll be fine!
Oh and what about the poor fuggers who get run over by your tank when you do?
Think of it as population control:D
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:lol
drastic
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Originally posted by Momus--
Strange that as a nation that ostensibly takes pride in its efficiency and productivity, the US has seemingly so far failed to embrace fuel efficiency in automobiles.
Time to join the 21st century guys. :p
I don't think it's necessarily the fact that we have failed to adopt, but rather it's the fact that we do not want to generally adopt. While I agree, fuel efficiency is an issue and there will probably be an overhaul like in the late '70s and early '80s on american made autos, you will find that americans are luxury driven no matter the costs.
We work hard for efficiency and productivity, and we play hard. So while we are in the forefront of creating technological advances, we drive our dinosaur SUV's and sporty cars. We are arrogant spendthrifts. God bless us, everyone. :)
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two words. metric system.
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Originally posted by Skydancer
Jackal1 are you realy that foolish that you want to be beholden to Arab oil producing nations, poisoning the atmosphere, and paying a fortune in taxes for ever and ever amen?
If the money and time spent on developing oil burning technology was put into the alternatives we'd have fuel cell vehicles with thousands of miles range. I'm pretty sure of that. Why hasn't it happened? because Oil barons company execs have a vested interest in us buying their product lining their already too fat pockets and we are too bloody enslaved to oil to be able to do anything about it. Apart from maybe those clever guys working on fuel cells with a fraction of the resources that Oil companies seem to have.
Besides its not my fault you live in a ridiculously underpopulated country that is way too big for your needs! 100 mile range is ok for a commuter bike here. And if you read the article range can be increased by adding more cells.;)
Do you have any idea exactly what you are whining about now?
I noticed even though you addressed me , you still managed to get your anti U.S. crap in. Getting sorta hilarious. The jealousy and the text tantrums. Man it must suck for you to want to be here so bad and to be stuck where you are.
The alternate power source you are referring to has been examined, tested, tryed to be improved on and found to defeat it`s very own purpose by producing more waste at a higher overall cost.
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Its odd too, how deisel is now pricier than gas. Used to be the other way around, no?
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http://www.mindfully.org/Energy/2003/Anything-Into-Oil1may03.htm
http://www.changingworldtech.com/
That's the answer imo. Get these plants up and running across America and we wont need to import oil anymore. Then China and Europe can pay the Arabs outrageous prices. :D
*edit* CWT is getting the financing together to build a plant in Philadelphia to process the cities sewage. The plant in Carthage Missouri is undergoing some changes to improve productivity and profits. When those changes are done they will be the exclusive processor for the Butterball turkey plant. The Carthage plant will be capable of 500 barrels of oil a day when that happens.
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Toyota has a hybrid car that gets 60/ gallon
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honda accord hybrid puts out more power and gets better MPG than the all gas accord, the writing is on the wall.
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Jackal1
You're a rude aggressive bugger aren't you?
Since Fuel cells only produce water as a by product pray tell me how that is more polluting than the crap the petrol engine pours out.
And go learn what a whine is! This is a discussion board. That means discussing things, sharing points of view etc. If disagreeing with your constant redneck twaddle is whining then I'll whine and whine and whine, and I'm damn glad about it.
(are you stalking me? You don't seem to be able to let a single one of my posts go unanswered?)
:lol :lol :lol:aok
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Actually we have two problems at present, neither are related to the amount of available crude oil:
1) WORLD demand continues to increase with no end in sight. China currently uses almost as much oil as the USA and analysts expect them to outstrip US consumption in the near future. They also don't have much in the way of environmental controls or conservation laws to restrain them. Since price is a function of demand, and the international demand base is widening, the OPEC countries are going to be under less and less political pressure to lower prices, so $2.00 a gallon is probably going to become a baseline.
2) The US problem is going to get worse, as was mentioned, unless we get serious about refining. Even with the most rapid implementation of "alternative energy" possible, we will still have an increasing demand for petrochemical products, including heating oil, natural gas, Kerosene. Want to really lower the cost of business and travel? Build some more danged refineries that are both close to transport and centers of production. We are currently almost at crisis level in that respect.
- SEAGOON
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SkyD, you ever look at what it takes to manufacture hydogen fuel cells? It ain't pretty.
The great ethenol debacle comes to mind. A fuel that burns cleaner than gas, is derived from organics grown right here in the good ole U.S.A., but uses more fuel to produce and distribute than what wouldb e reclaimed in the process of using it.
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Skuzzy.
Maybe you are right. I guess I'm only saying what I've read on the subject. Whatever the case we have a long way to go. But insisting that petroil/oil powered vehicles are the only option seems a bit daft. I do think that vehicle manufacturers are kind of in the thrall of the power of the oil companies. Until the oil companies stranglehold is broken research into alternatives will always be underfunded.
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true skuzzy...but wouldnt you agree that
it's costs are prohibitive in much the same way as any emerging technology?
how much did computers used to cost relative to todays standards? how many things did they have to iron out before they could really get it rolling into an innovation surge?
i guess what i am saying is...the problems with oil are relatively appearant...and though not easilly solved, doesnt it make practical sense that we put our best foot forward to innovating and enginering an entirely new state of energy production? (not only for the sake of reducing dependence, but also for the purpose of creating a new economy?)
we are after all, americans...we DID invent the internet.
:)
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Are we talking about ethenol? Or hydrogen fuel cells?
Note, I have never said a word about continued reliance on oil as the primary base for motive power being the best option.
I consider myself to be realistic and probably a bit pessimistic about the fuel thing. You guys can talk until you are blue in the face and nothing is going to change.
It will not change until there is no more oil left.
But, alternate fuel sources which require more energy to get to the consumer than they actually produce is silly and would be financially devastating.
Or if the by-products of manufacturing those alternatives produce more pollutants (and posiibly more hazardous pollutants) than they save, it is also silly.
EDIT: As far as cost to produce an alternate form of energy, I could card less. Unfortunately, it is not simply a cost issue.
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i think we have all talked ourselves silly long ago...:)
agreed on all points for the most part. the only difference being that my only real hope is that the conversations, wherever they may be, might lead to a light clicking on somewhere.
something tells me that the answer to the problem is one of those overly simple "why the hell did'nt i think of that" solutions.
it cost a whole lot of money to split the atom...has cost billions to develop it and place in warheads that have never been used...
something tells me that we can wrap our heads around this one. it's just a shame (IMHO) that it has to take the brink of darkness or a war of foreign aggression or another repeat of the 70's gas fiasco for people to see the inevitable end and fix it.
ya know?
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Lack of refineries. We haven't built a refinery since the 70's.
We can pump a couple billion barrels a day, it wouldn't matter we can't refine it. If you mention refinery the Sierra club chits it's self.
Actually, the oil industry "right sized" it's refining industry. If they really wanted to open new refineries they likely could without too many headaches, particularly with the current administration. It wouldn’t be easy, and EPA etc. make good scapegoats, but clear away all the EPA impediments and you would likely not see any significant increase in refining capacity. The can now hit 98 percent of peak capacity, don't have the expense of over capacity and don't worry too much about what happens when there's a disruption beyond making extra, short-term profits.
OPEC (and all of the upstream players) seems to be comfortable that the current price range will not impact demand significantly. They held to a price basket in the $20 range for a while leading up to 9/11. They have had some time to see that higher prices (where they are at today) are generally acceptable to the public, have limited impact on demand (volume) and maximize profits. So, we are now in the realm of gasoline at a base price near the $2../gal. range.
Charon
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Originally posted by Skydancer
Jackal1
You're a rude aggressive bugger aren't you?
Since Fuel cells only produce water as a by product pray tell me how that is more polluting than the crap the petrol engine pours out.
And go learn what a whine is! This is a discussion board. That means discussing things, sharing points of view etc. If disagreeing with your constant redneck twaddle is whining then I'll whine and whine and whine, and I'm damn glad about it.
(are you stalking me? You don't seem to be able to let a single one of my posts go unanswered?)
:lol :lol :lol:aok
Quite aggressive yes. Been told that many times. Always brings a smile to my face. I hate timid , limp wrist suckers.
You keep on whining me a river sweet cheeks. I got all the time in the world.
As fas as discussion goes, you either do notknow how to or you are incapable of a discussion. Go back and read some of the posts in different threads you have ben so lamely involved in Zulu. When it comes to anyones differing with your drivel, you move to the next whine, totaly dropping what you have stated in the beginning. Mainly this is due to the fact that you are quickly proven unknowledgeable on what you say to begin with. When that don`t work, every time without fail, you try to recover with either bashing the U.S. or go into another whine about how rude or the poster is.
You whined and whined wanting a debate. You got a couple and you can`t handle it because you don`t know what you are talking about to start with , so you go off on another text tantrum.
Then if that don`t cut it , as far as I`m concerned, you try to get me to ignore you in one way or the other, such as this time.
Once again, if you can`t stand the heat stay out of the kitchen. If you are going to saddle up, then ride the sucker ya wimp, or put her back in the barn.
Now as far as the topic at hand goes I have allready been beat to the punch by Skuzz. It`s not the by-products after use, it is the process to begin with.
Now since you have no knowledge of what you were promoting I guess you will have to find another subject, then figure out how to work in how evil the U.S. is .
Redneck? You bet your sweet patoonia slick. :D
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I'd say in both cases (ethanol and hydrogen) there are advances that COULD be made to make them more cost efficient to produce. So far nobody has taken the initiative to make those advances. ADM is happy to drag their feet because they are being subsidized to stay right where they are and big oil has no need for fuel cells. So technology stays put.
When the military takes an interest in the subject look for leaps and bounds to be made in technology surrounding alternative fuels and power. (i.e., fuel cell powered helicopters, UCAV's, tanks)
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Jackal1 words escape me........................... .....:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
This aint about the US or some US bash. Its about fuel. The oil industry is not just American You have no sense of humour do you?
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Bring it on! Make gas $5/gallon or more. We're just starting to feel the pinch that the rest of the world has known for DECADES. We were spoiled rotten. Now the the dollar is weakening we are forced to pay closer to what everyone else is already used to.
You'll notice people riding bikes and using public transportation a LOT more in European countries.
Hey, I design and build practical bicycles and electric and alternative fuel vehicles. This can only be good for my biz in the long run.
The world collectively and the US especially has it's head stuck in the sand. Seriously, the Hubbert Peak (http://www.hubbertpeak.com/) is not some liberal fantasy. Cars, airliners, ships, etc... wil not exist as they do today. Sure there will probably be varients thereof but I'd wager inside of a 100 years there is going to be a MAJOR paradimn shift in transportation technology.
g00b
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Originally posted by Skydancer
Jackal1 words escape me........................... .....:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
This aint about the US or some US bash. Its about fuel. The oil industry is not just American You have no sense of humour do you?
I got this one, Jackal.
Arggggh, shut it you limp wristed commie-liberal tree hugger! Why don't you go whine some more!
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Originally posted by Skydancer
Jackal1 words escape me.
:D Now there`s a newsflash for ya.
This aint about the US or some US bash. Its about fuel. The oil industry is not just American
Great. Then enlighten us about what your country is doing about your fuel situation instead of whining about how we, here in the U.S. have the worst autos, lowest prices, etc. That should be none of your concern, but as usual you worked it in.
Tell us about what all your country is doing. Enilghten us with your wisdom on how you can cure your countries problems for a change since you seem to have mastered everything that`s wrong with the U.S.
We have fields that have been explored here in my state and capped for a long , long time, left untapped, but avvailable.
What is in your country. I have no idea. :D Fill us in.
:D
You have no sense of humour do you?
I`m talking to you, so I must have.
Anything in particular that you have said that was overly humorous that I missed? I mean other than the overall picture.
Heheh! Not bad for the first shot hawker. :D
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I'll get it next time.
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You guys are funny. Yeah, that's it... build more US refineries. :rolleyes:
The temporary fix is already in progress: Get Iraqi oil flowing into the US. That will help a little.
What's next? Here's one wild scenario:
average gas price $3
inflation
politicians talk about energy independence
deficit and debt service rises to fuel higher inflation
$4-$5/gal average gas price
politicians talk about energy independence
US economy gets worse, inflation 5-6%
global economy slows down
politicians talk about energy independence
Japanese hybrid elec/gas SUVs capture high US market share
politicians talk about unfair Japanese business practices
UAW members smash new hybrids in parking lots
politicians talk about high import taxes to protect US carmakers
$6-$7/gal average gas price
politicians talk about energy independence
unemployment reaches 8%, inflation 8%
China and Asia importing bulk of Saudi Arabian oil
politicians talk about energy independence
Saudi Arabia has WMD and people need to be liberated
China says back off
Operation Saudi Freedom begins
China responds.
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WE NEAD TEH HYDRAGREON CARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111ONE
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WE WILL GET IT FROM TEH VAST UNDERGROUND RESERVES OF MOLECULAR HYDRAA23RGERAWERN TAHT EXIST ALL OVER TEH PLANAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Laugh all you want, but there is a new "Hydrogen Filling Station" less than 2 miles from my house. I should take a photo and post it. They are already building an infrastructure here for fuel cell cars... :cool:
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YES PRAPARE FOR TEH HYAWER-WE0HJNGDSPOAG;SDALGJGON REVALUTION!!!!!!!!!
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No offense intended BTW, I just love to flame on that topic.
I'll get excited about hydrogen when someone comes up with a way to make H2 without starting from conventional fuels.
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We had Oil. In the North sea. Then our Lovely Maggie busted our economy and wasted the revenue on paying unemployment benefit!
As for a solution. I believe that fuel cell bike was invented by brits.
Other possible solutions? LPG widely available in the UK. Smaller more fuel efficient cars. Again widely available. People in this country actualy look at MPG figures when buying a car. Unless they got more money than sense!
As for me advocating that this Island is perfect utopia, I don't think I ever did that. I simply think we have got some things right. There are many things we don't have right. But I'm sure you can point those out as you are so knowledgable about the world outside your borders.
A brief aside for a moment,
Let me ask you something. You guys are proud of your nation yeah? What exactly is wrong with me being proud of mine? you'd think you might understand that. Unless of course the new America is filled to bursting now with people who are so arrogant that they see no value outside their own land.
I'd like to think that is not the case but Jackal1 and guys like you disabuse me of that notion every time. Thank god this is a BBs and in real life there are many proud patriotic Americans who don't just swallow the crap that your think tanks and military industrial complex want you to swallow hook line and sinker, and are capable of seeing value in those from other places.
Your nation has a proud self sacrificing history that is to be applauded. It saddens me to see that slowly being eroded.
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Your honor I rest my case.
The boy just cannot hold a conversation unless it includes bashing of the U.S. and the people within.
Jealousy being a prime factor I hereby suggest an extended stay in a communist country asylum where he can more deeply study propaganda and work his emotional problems out with the like minded .
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Sky
Don't judge the US on peps from this board, that would be stupid
We are not all arrogant or narrow minded, I am but many are not.
:D :D
This board sometimes seems a place of extremes, and is good for entertainment if not enlightenment.
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You don't read anything properly do you my old sparring partner!
"Your nation has a proud self sacrificing history that is to be applauded."
"there are many proud patriotic Americans who don't just swallow the crap that your think tanks and military industrial complex want you to swallow hook line and sinker, and are capable of seeing value in those from other places."
I think these people live in your country too.
Its you I'm criticising matey not all Americans. Unless you are so arrogant you claim to speak for them all!
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Originally posted by Skydancer
You don't read anything properly do you my old sparring partner!
"Your nation has a proud self sacrificing history that is to be applauded."
"there are many proud patriotic Americans who don't just swallow the crap that your think tanks and military industrial complex want you to swallow hook line and sinker, and are capable of seeing value in those from other places."
I think these people live in your country too.
Its you I'm criticising matey not all Americans. Unless you are so arrogant you claim to speak for them all!
I read YOU all too well. That`s why I`m a burr under your saddle hoss. :D
"there are many proud patriotic Americans who don't just swallow the crap that your think tanks and military industrial complex want you to swallow hook line and sinker, and are capable of seeing value in those from other places."
You might want to save that for your next propaganda , antiU.S. , quasi-commie meeting.
That dog won`t hunt. :D
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Scootter
"Don't judge the US on peps from this board, that would be stupid"
I don't mate. It's just that some here choose to interpret me as if I do.
:aok
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"Some" see you for what you are. :aok
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
No offense intended BTW, I just love to flame on that topic.
I'll get excited about hydrogen when someone comes up with a way to make H2 without starting from conventional fuels.
What about a nuclear plant (fission) just doing hydrolysis on a water supply.
And laughing at new ideas... that'll change the world.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
The great ethenol debacle comes to mind. A fuel that burns cleaner than gas, is derived from organics grown right here in the good ole U.S.A., but uses more fuel to produce and distribute than what wouldb e reclaimed in the process of using it.
Why not just grain alcohol (moonshine)?
If some hillbilly in the backhills of west Virginia can do it.
It couldnt cost that much to make it
Really how much cost and energy does it take to make a still?
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Really how much cost and energy does it take to make a still?
Well I started on a Friday morning, gathered up the copper and firewood, then I............................ ......... Nevermind.
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Paid $2.27 a gal on Tuesday for Amoco Gold, and the bill came to $6.81 total. My Low Rider (FXDL) has air conditioning on all the time too, and still gets around 50 mpg. :D
Thorns
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Why not just grain alcohol (moonshine)?
If some hillbilly in the backhills of west Virginia can do it.
It couldnt cost that much to make it
Really how much cost and energy does it take to make a still?
You can buy one on the web for $200 - $500 depending on the size. If you can weld, you can build one for under $100 in material. Your other incidental recurring costs would be a heat source and mash.
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Originally posted by Sixpence
http://www.ybiofuels.org/bio_fuels/history_diesel.html
Rudolph Diesel was quite the visionary. http://www.boulderbiodiesel.com/tim/Rudolph/index.jsp
"He wanted to provide farmers, small industries and those in isolated communities the opportunity to produce their own fuel and to compete with the large monopolies that controlled all energy production at that time."
"Vegetable oils were used as fuel for the diesel engine until the 1920's, when diesel engine manufacturers modified the injection system of the engine to handle the lower viscosity of fossil fuels, which were widely available and low in cost. The oil tycoons of the day also wielded influence over every aspect of the transportation industry and shaped the development of the engine to favor their interests. "
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Originally posted by rpm
You can buy one on the web for $200 - $500 depending on the size. If you can weld, you can build one for under $100 in material. Your other incidental recurring costs would be a heat source and mash.
For a heat source they can use methane.
Naturally occuring and often just burned off at garbage dumps
Some towns I hear actually use it to power generators for the electric co's
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Yeah, the oil companies and Bush are behind the lack of development of alternative energy. And they've got those 200MPG carburetors all packed away in a warehouse in Texas too.
Alcohol, be it methanol or ethanol, does not have the BTU content necessary for use as an efficient motor fuel. It also requires very high compression ratios in order to be nearly as efficient as hydrocarbon fuel. In fact, most alcohol has about HALF the BTU content of hydrocarbon fuel. Further, the high compression ratio needed to burn alcohol efficiently produces nitrides of oxygen, which is a top pollutant on the EPA list.
Theoretically, if you could get the distribution network setup , we could switch to alcohol, provided you were willing to stop twice as often to fill up. It could also be used to cut bio diesel, adding alcohol in the proper percentages will make your diesel kick ass. However, vehicles built to use alcohol could not be run on gasoline in an emergency, because the gasoline required would be 110 octane. Alcohol is also EXTREMELY hard on fuel systems, it is very corrosive and removes the plasticizers from rubber components.
We could also cease to use petroleum based lubricants,and switch to pure synthetics. This is actually very feasible and has far more advantages than the minor disadvantage of cost.
We could also go to almost 100% nuclear generated electricity, with the rest produced from hydroelectric plants. Then use the coal like the Germans did in World War II, and make gasoline and diesel from it. They did it 60 years ago, I'm sure the process could be refined and improved.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
We could also go to almost 100% nuclear generated electricity, with the rest produced from hydroelectric plants. Then use the coal like the Germans did in World War II, and make gasoline and diesel from it. They did it 60 years ago, I'm sure the process could be refined and improved.
I dont think its viable (not to mention a very bad idea) to go almost 100% nuclear untill we figure out a way to dispose of the waste.
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Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Yeah, the oil companies and Bush are behind the lack of development of alternative energy. And they've got those 200MPG carburetors all packed away in a warehouse in Texas too.
Alcohol, be it methanol or ethanol, does not have the BTU content necessary for use as an efficient motor fuel. It also requires very high compression ratios in order to be nearly as efficient as hydrocarbon fuel. In fact, most alcohol has about HALF the BTU content of hydrocarbon fuel. Further, the high compression ratio needed to burn alcohol efficiently produces nitrides of oxygen, which is a top pollutant on the EPA list.
Theoretically, if you could get the distribution network setup , we could switch to alcohol, provided you were willing to stop twice as often to fill up. It could also be used to cut bio diesel, adding alcohol in the proper percentages will make your diesel kick ass. However, vehicles built to use alcohol could not be run on gasoline in an emergency, because the gasoline required would be 110 octane. Alcohol is also EXTREMELY hard on fuel systems, it is very corrosive and removes the plasticizers from rubber components.
We could also cease to use petroleum based lubricants,and switch to pure synthetics. This is actually very feasible and has far more advantages than the minor disadvantage of cost.
We could also go to almost 100% nuclear generated electricity, with the rest produced from hydroelectric plants. Then use the coal like the Germans did in World War II, and make gasoline and diesel from it. They did it 60 years ago, I'm sure the process could be refined and improved.
It's not the greatest fuel stand alone. It's too dry. But, it makes a great additive to thin heavier oils and make them more efficient. It is hard on older diesel engines with weaker rubber seals. Most newer engines use different compound seals that have much better tolerence for methanol. It has it's place at the pump, http://www.wnbiodiesel.com/ .
Another reason to use it? .
The smell of the biodiesel exhaust is far more pleasant than petroleum based diesel, some times smelling like pop corn or doughnuts if the fuel is made from a waste vegetable oil feedstock.
It's poop don't stink.
Oh, and the warehouse is in South Texas... near the border
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Some islanders, I think its in the Soloman Islands have been making their own fuel for years. They have to as the Aussies have embargoed their Island over some mining dispute. ( I know the details are sketchy but I'm trying to remember a documentary I watched ages ago.) They use Palm oil to run their vehicles. And it seemed to work for them.
As long as it didn't wreck the motor and was freely avaiable I'd run my bike on alternative fuel no worries.
The Human race's oil guzzling days ought to be numbered. More power to those boffins who are trying to find something else to power us along.
I don't want to be fighting over the last few drops of fuel like this bloke!
(http://www.allposters.com/IMAGES/PEPH/MG1B3.jpg)
:lol
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Originally posted by Skydancer
Some islanders, I think its in the Soloman Islands have been making their own fuel for years.
They must be magical! Making fuel would be a world-wide breakthrough!
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They use Palm oil!
Sheesh read the bloody thread if your'e going to pick it apart!
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Yea Nuke.
You are gonna be sorry for pissin him off one day.
When you pull up to a palm tree, take out the hose, then notice the sign "Zulu World Palm Oil Inc.", then you will realize you were not issued the secret decoder ring to unlock the pump.
Where ya gonna be then? Huh? Huh? :D
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:rolleyes: :lol
! I've nothing to say to that. it'sway to daft to even contemplate!
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Any of you has news about the nuclear fusion program?
If I remember correctly, has been years since the last time I have eard about it, has been the research abandoned?
Was presented as the best option few years ago, now seem so silent.
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What exactly do you mean? Nuclear powered cars?I hope not. I think theres one glaring problem with nuclear technology. What do you do with all the waste?
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Originally posted by Skydancer
What exactly do you mean? Nuclear powered cars?I hope not. I think theres one glaring problem with nuclear technology. What do you do with all the waste?
're you kidding?
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Originally posted by Skydancer
What exactly do you mean? Nuclear powered cars?I hope not. I think theres one glaring problem with nuclear technology. What do you do with all the waste?
Fusion as I understand it does not produce wastes as we have come to think of as waste. Unlike the currently used Fission process Fusion creates non-reactive byproducts or at least it will when it can be done.
It combines atoms rather then splitting them, combine them long enough and you get lead of some other dense material (perhaps I have perfected Fusion in my own brain box).
The world has proven that it will pay for the price of oil and as long as it does that nothing will change. Oil prices go up then expensive oil will be drilled and recovered, oil bearing shale will be tapped, coal gasofacation will be used etc.
The more other sources make economic sense the more moderation will be added to price increases.
This is economics 101 remember that the middle east oil is the cheapest and easiest to get there are many other sources.
OPEC really does not want an unrestricted rise in oil as it will open up more competition to them and take away there apparent monopoly.
Things will work out, in the 70's everyone went to high MPG cars and waited in lines for a ration of gas. Today we have bigger boats, bigger cars and SUV's and drive more then ever.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
I dont think its viable (not to mention a very bad idea) to go almost 100% nuclear untill we figure out a way to dispose of the waste.
breeder reactors (http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/nucene/fasbre.html)
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What's the scoop on Bio-Diesel anyway? I've read the rah-rah material from the manufacturers: Pacific Bio-Diesel (http://www.biodiesel.com/)
but am wondering what the downside is? Also, doesn't vegetable oil become viscous at freezing temperatures?
- SEAGOON
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Originally posted by Seagoon
What's the scoop on Bio-Diesel anyway? I've read the rah-rah material from the manufacturers: Pacific Bio-Diesel (http://www.biodiesel.com/)
but am wondering what the downside is? Also, doesn't vegetable oil become viscous at freezing temperatures?
- SEAGOON
BioDiesel has a shelf life, kind of like foods.
as for becoming viscous, it depends on the oil type.
read here (http://www.journeytoforever.org/biodiesel.html) for more info. read the links on that page, to see more of the pro and cons, and anything else you might want to know.
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Yeah, it does. But, so does regular diesel. You have to add alcohol or methanol to keep it thinned out.
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Originally posted by Seagoon
What's the scoop on Bio-Diesel anyway? I've read the rah-rah material from the manufacturers: Pacific Bio-Diesel (http://www.biodiesel.com/)
but am wondering what the downside is? Also, doesn't vegetable oil become viscous at freezing temperatures?
- SEAGOON
back in the dark ages of 1962 i was a marine truck mech, we had multi-fuel engines in our trucks, it was basicly a diesel eng that would run on anything that would burn, corn oil , peanut oil ,coconut oil and of course diesel fuel. it could even run on gasoline if you added motor oil for lube. or a mix of all the above.
the fuel system would sense the specific gravity of whatever was in the injector pump and adjust the mixture.
now 40+ years later, people still are saying "hmm, what about this bio-diesel?"
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Originally posted by hawker238
And laughing at new ideas... that'll change the world.
Nothing new about the perpetual motion machine...
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Originally posted by DieAz
BioDiesel has a shelf life, kind of like foods.
as for becoming viscous, it depends on the oil type.
read here (http://www.journeytoforever.org/biodiesel.html) for more info. read the links on that page, to see more of the pro and cons, and anything else you might want to know.
Thanks DieAz, interesting stuff, particularly about making it in the home (although with three little-uns, no diesel vehicles, and no grasp of mathamatics whatsoever, I won't be following that particular recipe for disaster.)
Ok, I'll bite. If it is so simple, uses a naturally occurring waste product, can be utilized in existing technology and produces so few hazardous by-products, why on earth are we going nuts to create "Hydrogen-Cells" etc? Given that much of our energy generation, and most of our land-based heavy transport is diesel based (including, for instance, locomotives, tractor-trailors, etc.) Why on earth haven't we started refining and using Bio-Diesel everywhere?
[No use of the "H" word, please :D ]
- SEAGOON
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Seagoon,
Biodiesel (or used cooking oil) has some merit but is not the wonderful idea it seems at first. It has to be filtered before it goes in the tank. The vehicle won't start with it. It has to start with regular diesel then transfer over after the engine is warmed up. There is some loss of power but it does work.
Getting a fill up is problematic as you have to get the oil from the restaraunt so long distance driving isn't a viable option. Long term effects on the engines and injection systems are also unknown.
It is a potential fuel but costs more to produce than does regular diesel fuel. It costs in money and resources to produce. If it takes 10 barrels of oil to produce 2 barels of bio diesel it isn't a viable option. IMO. (estimated ratio of petro fuel to bio fuel so don't flame on that)
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Bio-diesel and Veggie oil are not the solution for the populace at large. They are great ways to recycle "waste" oil, but producing the stuff specifically for use in cars is not energy efficient.
My housemate has a twin-turbo volvo that runs off pure veggie oil. He and a couple buddies have converted their cars and trucks and it works VERY well. Price of fuel is only the labor to pick it up and filter it.
The problem is that there is only enough "waste" oil in our county for maybe 100 people out of 100,000 to actually do this. So it's not a viable long-term solution.
Even fuel cells and other forms of energy storage still require a "source" to create the energy in the 1st place.
The only long-term solution is to get more efficient. No more SUV's, etc... A fuel-cell powered SUV still takes just as much energy to power as gas one.
We need to get small, light and aerodynamic vehicles. Only problem is they can't co-exist with the Monster Trucks on the roads these days. We need a new infrastructure where small, light, efficient vehicles can operate safely. I've been to communites where certain areas are simply not accessable by foot or bicycle. Personally I think the USA is approaching a criminal negligence in this regard.
The good news is I'm getting involved with Nissan in making some of these:
http://www.extremegravityracing.com
Which would happen to make reasonably cheap, efficient, alternative fuel vehicles. I think the first car company to really embrace the concept is going to make a LOT of money.
So maybe there's hope in the long run.
g00b
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Originally posted by Seagoon
Thanks DieAz, interesting stuff, particularly about making it in the home (although with three little-uns, no diesel vehicles, and no grasp of mathamatics whatsoever, I won't be following that particular recipe for disaster.)
Ok, I'll bite. If it is so simple, uses a naturally occurring waste product, can be utilized in existing technology and produces so few hazardous by-products, why on earth are we going nuts to create "Hydrogen-Cells" etc? Given that much of our energy generation, and most of our land-based heavy transport is diesel based (including, for instance, locomotives, tractor-trailors, etc.) Why on earth haven't we started refining and using Bio-Diesel everywhere?
[No use of the "H" word, please :D ]
- SEAGOON
in one word, the answer is "greed"
ok, I won't use the "H" word, when addressing you.
(you might want to say a prayer for me though. :) )
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Originally posted by g00b
Bio-diesel and Veggie oil are not the solution for the populace at large. They are great ways to recycle "waste" oil, but producing the stuff specifically for use in cars is not energy efficient.
http://www.energybulletin.net/2364.html
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Sixpence,
Interesting article, 1st time I've read that anyone thought we could replace the ENTIRE US oil supply with bio-diesel, I'm still a bit leary. Still doesn't address the current polution or general inefficiency issues. Not to mention 90% or more of US vehicles run on gasoline.
g00b
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Wasent there a guy named Stanley Myers who ran a dune buggy on water back around 1991? He envented what he called a water fuel cell. Supposedly he died of mysterious circumstances when he got the funding to go full time on his invention. I think he claimed 30 mpg on average.
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Ok, Full-Disclosure: Inorganic Chemistry and Engineering are not my fields at all. So forgive me if my questions from here on in reflect a woeful stupidity:
1) Why can't you crank the engine using pure bio-diesel?
2) How do you start a normal Diesel engine with regular diesel and then switch over to bio-diesel?
- SEAGOON
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well for all of us that are rebels, please read the following. I definitely know where I will fill up!
WHERE TO BUY YOUR GAS
Gas rationing in the 80's worked even though we grumbled about it.
It might even be good for us! The Middle Eastern countries are boycotting American goods. We should return the favor
An interesting thought is to boycott their oil (or that gas that is made from it).
Every time you fill up the car, you can avoid putting more money into the coffers of the middle east. Just buy from gas companies that don't import their oil from them.
Nothing is more frustrating to me than the feeling that every time I fill-up the tank, I am sending my money to people who are anti US.
I thought it might be interesting for you to know which oil companies are the best to buy gas from and which major companies import Middle Eastern oil :
Shell..................... 205,742,000 barrels
Chevron/Texaco......... 144,332,000 barrels
Exxon /Mobil............... 130,082,000 barrels
Marathon/Speedway... 117,740,000 barrels
Amoco.....................62,231,000 barrels
If you do the math at $30/barrel, these imports amount to over $18 BILLION!
Here are some large companies that do not import Middle Eastern oil:
Citgo......................0 barrels
Sunoco...................0 barrels
Conoco...................0 barrels
Sinclair....................0 barrels
BP/Phillips..............0 barrels
Hess........................0 barrels ARC0.0 barrels
All of this information is available from the Department of Energy and each is required to state where they get their oil and how much they are importing. But to have an impact, we need to reach literally millions of gas buyers. It's really simple to do.
Now, don't wimp out at this point... keep reading and I'll explain how simple it is to reach millions of people!!
I'm sending this note to about thirty people. If each of you send it to at least ten more (30 x 10 = 300)... and those 300 send it to at least ten more (300 x 10 = 3,000) ... and so on, by the time the message reaches the sixth generation of people, we will have reached over THREE MILLION consumers!
If those three million get excited and pass this on to ten friends each, then 30 million people will have been contacted!
If it goes one level further, you guessed it ..... THREE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE!!!
Again, all YOU have to do is send this to 10 people. How long would all that take?
If each of us sends this e-mail out to ten more people within one day, all
300 MILLION people could conceivably be contacted within the next eight days!
But hey, that is just me!
JB28
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you can run a car on water if you add a small amount of acetylene to the water, problem is , it's highly corrosive
and costs more than gasoline, was a scam back in 20's or 30's "magic fuel"
good idea jb28, but without mid east oil you would have to ride the bus to work.
oh no , riding buses is for poor people.
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I believe if and when things get tough enough we will tend to come up with combination fuels or "cut" gasoline. I think maybe a combination of a lot of the alternatives mentioned here could be feasible if enough testing were put into it.
I don`t really see anything going over real big in the U.S. for a long, long time other than the internal combustion engine.
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Originally posted by DieAz
in one word, the answer is "greed"
ok, I won't use the "H" word, when addressing you.
(you might want to say a prayer for me though. :) )
The wonderful thing about capitalism is that greed is generally balanced out in the kind of ways that don't occur in managed economies. To whit, the agricultural combines in this country (like Con-Agra, ADM, etc.) are almost as powerful as the Oil Companies, and some have even more legislative clout. If they thought for a moment that there was some way to make the entire US economy absolutely dependent on Soybean Oil (or Algae Ponds) there wouldn't be any stopping the legislative steamroller in the same way that awful ethanols are now mandated at the pumps in several states, and since these are the companies that would utterly dominate full scale bio-diesel production, it seems to me that they must see some sort of hurdles or they'd be pouring R&D and Lobbying dollars into this.
- SEAGOON
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Originally posted by FUNKED1
Nothing new about the perpetual motion machine...
I know, and flying machines... like those will ever work. And subs being driven by nuclear reactors and staying submerged for months! Who are these wacky people?
(My dad actually met Rickover, btw)
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Biodiesel and veggie-oil or "greasel" as we call it are not the same thing.
Biodiesel is made through a chemical process called transesterification whereby the glycerin is separated from the fat or vegetable oil. The process leaves behind two products -- methyl esters (the chemical name for biodiesel) and glycerin (a valuable byproduct usually sold to be used in soaps and other products).
http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/Production.PDF
You use biodiesel just like regular diesel. No modifications necassary. Same operating procedures.
Greasel is just raw waste veggie-oil run through a filter. You must keep the oil warm or it thickens. For this reason you start and shut down the engine using regular diesel. Once the engine and associated greasel heating devices are warmed up you switch to the grease. Forgetting to switch to the diesel before shutting off the engine on a cold day is a pain in the arse, involving much mess and liberal use of cuss words.
g00b
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Originally posted by Seagoon
Ok, Full-Disclosure: Inorganic Chemistry and Engineering are not my fields at all. So forgive me if my questions from here on in reflect a woeful stupidity:
1) Why can't you crank the engine using pure bio-diesel?
You can(a diesel engine of course)
2) How do you start a normal Diesel engine with regular diesel and then switch over to bio-diesel?
With modern diesel engines there is hardly(if any) changes needed, maybe a few hoses
Read up on Rudolph Diesel, you will find alot of interesting articles, I posted a couple
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Ok so maybe fuel cell technology is not the short term answer! ( this is an interesting thread )
And as Jackal1 says
"I don`t really see anything going over real big in the U.S. for a long, long time other than the internal combustion engine."
The same is probably true all over. Particularly in countries like US, Russia and Australia where range is important.
So it would seem the answer lies in working out how to power the combustion engine using alternative fuels. more fuel efficiency in the short term. Like Ford's zetech lean burmn engine? A replacement fuel that can be burnt in I.C.Es in the medium term, and replacement of the I.C.E in the long term.
Sounds so simple but it won't happen all the while Oil companies have the stranglehold.
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The oil companies are not going to be the problem. For any technology to really take off it has to perform a function that is needed and do so in an economical manner. If it costs 5 times as much to run a vehicle on biodiesel (just to pick one thing out of the air) there is no incentive to switch for the consumer. As soon as a viable alternative that performs as well and cost is competitive then you have a technology that will take off.
There is precedent, think jet engine for cargo / passenger travel. If it hadn't been competitive we'd still be flying radial engines on airliners.
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Anyone looked at "Browns Gas"? guy in Australia runs his car on it. Created from tap water. Is used formost for welding.
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Anyone looked at "Browns Gas"? Sorry something funky with my browser tought this did not post.......
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We just need to make cars like big slot cars, and just have everyone run on the same track, same speed.
Yeah so you wouldnt have the same freedome to be a dick and cut someone off,so you wouldnt have the risk of spining out on ice and killing a family of people driveing in the other direction, so you would still get the same place 15 seconds faster.
Fact is, cars are on there way out, look at major citys,wall to wall cars,cars,cars,cars..morons.
You think the fule will have any diffrence in the future? hell in 50 more years the world population will triple, fule will be the last thing we worry about, waiting 15 mins to change into the otherlane because of over population and over use of cars,most all being driven by ONE person.
Start car polling you morons.
that or cut a hole in the floor,start screaming yabadaba do, and get over it.
Ps. when saying morons im talking more to the world in general, more than anyone here on this bbs. cause you can all go *** yourself and i could care less about you wants,opinions and needs. as you could all for mine.:aok
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Originally posted by Seagoon
The wonderful thing about capitalism is that greed is generally balanced out in the kind of ways that don't occur in managed economies. To whit, the agricultural combines in this country (like Con-Agra, ADM, etc.) are almost as powerful as the Oil Companies, and some have even more legislative clout. If they thought for a moment that there was some way to make the entire US economy absolutely dependent on Soybean Oil (or Algae Ponds) there wouldn't be any stopping the legislative steamroller in the same way that awful ethanols are now mandated at the pumps in several states, and since these are the companies that would utterly dominate full scale bio-diesel production, it seems to me that they must see some sort of hurdles or they'd be pouring R&D and Lobbying dollars into this.
- SEAGOON
read what you wrote very carefully. you answered your own questions.
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So how about LPG then? Lots of people who run big SUVs or most of our buses (in Birmingham anyhow) run on it. The only problem I see is that its not that widely available yet. But it seems a good solution.
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Originally posted by Skydancer
So how about LPG then? Lots of people who run big SUVs or most of our buses (in Birmingham anyhow) run on it. The only problem I see is that its not that widely available yet. But it seems a good solution.
My farm truck, a 1980 TK Bedford runs on LPG.
Alternative fuels like LPG and CNG have been used in NZ for decades. After the oil shocks in the 1970s the government encouraged the use of both gasess by offering insentives to make it economical for people to convert their vehicles too run on them. But these days the gases are not as popular as they use to be because the goverment removed the insentives to use them, like reducing the price differential between the gases and diesel/petrol, to the point where in most cases its's actually cheaper to burn petrol or diesel. The oil companies, using their multinational clout, are mostly to blame for this... they make more profit selling petrol and diesel than LPG/CNG.
Excel
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LPG is a mixture of butane and propane in different proportions obtained as a by-product of oil refining. That does not get us away from oil or Carbon Dioxide emission.
If we went back to Coal Gas, Britain could be self sufficient for decades without oil, and the US could cover it entire energy requirement at present levels for 700 to 800 years.
'course, CO2 still a problem.
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Ahhh the sting in the tail. C02
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Thanks for the answers, learned a lot. :aok
Hey, here's a possible Bio-Diesel con: wouldn't driving a car that created a smell like a deep frier create serious munchy problems in cities like Seattle, wouldn't want to get blamed for contributing to stoner obesity.
- SEAGOON
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
LPG is a mixture of butane and propane in different proportions obtained as a by-product of oil refining. That does not get us away from oil or Carbon Dioxide emission.
In NZ LPG is extracted from localy produced natural gas and not through oil refining. So it made sense to use a cheaper, cleaner burning, localy produced fuel that produced lower emissions than either petrol or diesel and at the same time saved the country a chitload of $$$$ through having to import less refined and crude oil.
But the greedy oil companies wouldn't get with the programme.
They didn't want LPG eating into the obscene profits they made from imported oil.
Excel
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Originally posted by Seagoon
Hey, here's a possible Bio-Diesel con: wouldn't driving a car that created a smell like a deep frier create serious munchy problems in cities like Seattle, wouldn't want to get blamed for contributing to stoner obesity.
- SEAGOON
:D The second hand munchies effect.