Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: indy007 on March 23, 2005, 09:49:25 AM
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link (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/world/3099100)
Gaddafi calls Israelis, Palestinians idiots
Reuters News Service
ALGIERS - Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi grabbed the spotlight at an Arab summit today, calling Israelis and Palestinians idiots for seeking separate states and saying the U.N. Security Council was a terrorist organization.
The Algerian hosts of the two-day meeting gave the maverick leader a star role on the closing day, allowing him to vent at length on Arab grievances about international relations.
He said the world should thank Syria for maintaining peace in Lebanon and argued that what he called "Islamic terrorism" was mainly the result of the West's cultural arrogance.
The Arab leaders are expected to relaunch later in the day an Arab peace plan offering Israel normal relations in return for withdrawal to the 1967 borders and a Palestinian state.
But Gaddafi went against the grain, preaching the minority view that the solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is for the two peoples to live together in a single state.
His targets, including Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, also known as Abu Mazen, and Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshiyar Zebari, took it lightly, chuckling at his one-hour speech.
But he drew sustained applause for airing views which many Arabs express in private but which their leaders rarely utter in public. Among the dignataries present was U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan, whose own speech was conventionally diplomatic.
Algerian President Abdelaziz Bouteflika, the host of the summit, hailed Gaddafi's frankness, if not his statesmanship.
"I believe most of his opinions and ideas are real and correct but the difference...is that I am responsible for the state and the people," he said.
"If an ordinary person (speaks like that) it doesn't matter, but I am responsible and I do not want to harm my people."
Gaddafi said Israel had no right to exist because the Palestinian inhabitants of the country never accepted it.
But he added: "I cannot recognise either the Palestinian state or the Israeli state. Don't be angry, Abu Mazen, but the Palestinians are idiots and the Israelis are idiots."
The Israelis were wrong to try to hold on to the West Bank in the face of Palestinian attacks and the Palestinians were wrong not to have set up their own state after 1948, he said.
"OPPRESSION AND INJUSTICE"
"The solution I think is to have a single state. We cannot have two states," added Gaddafi, who noted that he is now the longest serving Arab leader. He took power in 1969.
Gaddafi dismissed the argument that poverty is at the root of violence by militant Islamists and pinned the blame on "oppression, injustice, arrogance, insults, contempt and the humiliation of this (Arab) nation."
"How come we are considered to be children, with no law or social relations? ... This creates a million bin Ladens."
"Listen to us," he said, addressing Europe and the United States. "If you ignore us, you will lose in the end... If they want to combat terrorism, they should respect the Arab world."
The Arab summit agreed to back Egypt in a bid for a seat on the U.N. Security Council but Gaddafi said they should work instead to enhance the authority of the General Assembly.
"This is a terror council, not a security council. It is a terrorist organisation. Why should we expand it?" he asked.
After a final closed session, the Arab monarchs and presidents will relaunch their Middle East peace initiative of 2002, to send the world a message of peaceful intentions.
Israel said on Monday that the plan was a "non-starter" and Arab states should start negotiations without conditions.
The Arab summit will send a small group of Arab leaders to present the plan to the Quartet of international mediators -- the United States, European Union, United Nations and Russia, Abbas told reporters.
Annan told the Arab leaders, including Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, that the killing of Lebanese former Prime Minister Rafik al-Hariri might need more investigation, beyond an initial U.N. inquiry, whose findings he will release soon.
He also said he expected Syria to withdraw all its troops from Lebanon in time for parliamentary elections in May.
But Gaddafi warned: "When Syria troops pull out, you'll see what will happen. It's better to have the guns of Syria than the guns of other regional countries."
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double speak
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And this man's opinions matter, why? :confused:
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Originally posted by Red Tail 444
And this man's opinions matter, why? :confused:
Because he's a head of state in a region plagued by violence.. and he's calling people idiots.
I thought it was funny enough to merit posting. :)
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Geographically, he's only a few hundred miles short. Judging by his ideology and political stances (which, granted, are improving.. only took 30 years) he might as well be right in the middle.
I won't even be a salamander and play the fun, "I never said what region!" game :) Cuz then I could bring up Chadian rebels, the Aozou Strip, funding of terrorists, Lockerbie, or all the land Libya has claimed from Algeria & Niger.
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He's barmy. Though don't any of you ever wonder why Israelis and Palistinians couldn't have just learned to get on with each other in the first place?:rolleyes: :)
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Originally posted by Skydancer
He's barmy. Though don't any of you ever wonder why Israelis and Palistinians couldn't have just learned to get on with each other in the first place?:rolleyes: :)
No.
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Haha.
Am I the only one thinking that he's at least partially right, and it's about time someone in the region actually came out and said what they're all thinking? Sure, every bully claims that they do it to get respect, but nearly EVERYONE has been supporting either Israel or the Palestinians out of pure political expediency rather than out of any true moral conviction.
Seriously, Syria HAS kept the peace in Lebanon after the US got kicked out, and whether or not they really did have anything to do with the recent assasination, they're getting shown the door without so much as a thanks-for-coming handshake. It's the same thing that happens to anyone who tries to do any good in regions where they've been fighting each other for thousands of years, will be perfectly happy to keep fighting over stupid crap for another thousand years, and get insulted when any adults step in and try to separate the fighters and protect the (relatively) innocent.
At least in Iraq, the citizenry seem to be willing to start taking responsibility for themselves so maybe we can leave that place in one piece.
Kudos to Gaddafi for getting tired of the nonsense and speaking his mind. Whether or not you agree with him, what he said and did is in itself a mini-revolution in mideast politics. Plain talk... what a concept. Mebbie this dude watches Booosh too much eh?
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Originally posted by GScholz
Geographically Greece is closer than Libya, and Libya is hardly "plagued by violence". Lockerbie is not in Libya you know ;).
1986 was a bad year for Gaddafi though ... 1988 he replied with Lockerbie. But that is another discussion.
How can he call Palistinians idiots, they don't exist. Palistine is a figment of British imagination. It didn't exist until the Brits made it up in the early part of the Twentyth Century. The Arabs couldn't even pronounce it calling it (Falistin) as if it where some kind of ancestral homeland. The land that is now Isreal is the "Land of Canan" And has changed hands through the centuries. But it was never "Palistine" until some Brit General pulled it out of his bellybutton a few years ago. It is what the "Palistinians call the occupied territories...no chit, it's gonna stay that way to.
He replied with Lockerbie? He said he had nothing to do with that.
And replied to whom? Oh maybe the line of death across the Gulf of Sidra...the downed Migs....his personal tent hit with 2000 lb. high explosives. Or was he pissed at something somebody said. Well he attacked small Scotland to prove his Machismo to his Arab buddies, that he now calls Idiots.
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Originally posted by weaselsan
But it was never "Palistine" until some Brit General pulled it out of his bellybutton a few years ago. It is what the "Palistinians call the occupied territories...no chit, it's gonna stay that way to.
My mother and uncles would all dissgree with you on this point as they were all taught in school that it was call palistine.
This was back n the 40's.
Unless your really really old and consider 60 years ago a "few years":)
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How can he call Palistinians idiots, they don't exist.
They do.
They are the native inhabitants of the West Bank and Gaza strip.
You might have some objection to the name, but that is how the rest of the world defines them.
Palistine is a figment of British imagination. It didn't exist until the Brits made it up in the early part of the Twentyth Century.
No, you'll find the Romans called the area that (or something very close to it), as did the ancient Greeks. You'll also find Mark Twain calling the area Palestine in his writings on the first Zionist conference in 1897.
The land that is now Isreal is the "Land of Canan" And has changed hands through the centuries
Notably being in Phillistine hands, which is probably the origin of the name "Palestine".
It is what the "Palistinians call the occupied territories...no chit, it's gonna stay that way to.
Well, Gaza is unlikely to be occupied after this summer, as to the West Bank, time will tell.
Am I the only one thinking that he's at least partially right, and it's about time someone in the region actually came out and said what they're all thinking?
Ghaddafi's been touting this idea (he calls it "Israstine") for a few years now.
It's barking mad.
The one thing both the Israelis and Palestinians agree on is they need 2 states, not 1. (Indeed, it's the fear of ending up in a single state with the Palestinians that has kept Israel from annexing the territories it occupies)
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It's also been said that palistinians will out bread the Isaralis 3 to 1 over the next 10 to 20 years. If it was a single state the Jews would be a minority very shortly.
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He is a good little doggie since we kicked his butt a few yeard back.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
It's also been said that palistinians will out bread the Isaralis 3 to 1 over the next 10 to 20 years. If it was a single state the Jews would be a minority very shortly.
Yup then all they will haveto to put Isreal in a very sticky political situation internationally is demand the right to vote.
Should be interesting to say the least
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Seriously, Syria HAS kept the peace in Lebanon after the US got kicked out, and whether or not they really did have anything to do with the recent assasination, they're getting shown the door without so much as a thanks-for-coming handshake.
You got to be kidding, right? thanks-for-coming? :lol
Bozon
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Originally posted by bozon
You got to be kidding, right? thanks-for-coming? :lol
I guess you didn't notice the massive pro-Syria demonstrations in Lebanon recently?
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Ah these will have been like the massive Pro Stalin demonstrations, or pro Honnecker demonstrations, or pro Saddam demonstrations then?
Demonstrate in support of us or the nice men from the security ministry will be calling.
:lol
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Another god-son of that amusing Arab fascist leader, the Grand Mufti, Haj Muhammad Amin al Husseini, has spoken.
Be still my heart.
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Originally posted by Nashwan
They do.
They are the native inhabitants of the West Bank and Gaza strip.
You might have some objection to the name, but that is how the rest of the world defines them.
No, you'll find the Romans called the area that (or something very close to it), as did the ancient Greeks. You'll also find Mark Twain calling the area Palestine in his writings on the first Zionist conference in 1897.
Notably being in Phillistine hands, which is probably the origin of the name "Palestine".
Well, Gaza is unlikely to be occupied after this summer, as to the West Bank, time will tell.
Ghaddafi's been touting this idea (he calls it "Israstine") for a few years now.
It's barking mad.
The one thing both the Israelis and Palestinians agree on is they need 2 states, not 1. (Indeed, it's the fear of ending up in a single state with the Palestinians that has kept Israel from annexing the territories it occupies)
ROTFLMAO...God gave the land to Israel....Mark Twain gave it to the Arabs.
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Originally posted by GScholz
If you had the mental fortitude to read a little history you’d notice that Gaddafi bombed the PanAm flight over Lockerbie two years after Reagan bombed his family in 1984. You must enjoy being ignorant ... you’re so good at it.
He's not talking about lockerbie..he's talking about that little cafe' incident...didn't you notice the deer in the headlights look on the morons face after Ronnie put a boot up his ass.
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Originally posted by Nashwan
They do.
They are the native inhabitants of the West Bank and Gaza strip.
You might have some objection to the name, but that is how the rest of the world defines them.
No, you'll find the Romans called the area that (or something very close to it), as did the ancient Greeks. You'll also find Mark Twain calling the area Palestine in his writings on the first Zionist conference in 1897.
Notably being in Phillistine hands, which is probably the origin of the name "Palestine".
Well, Gaza is unlikely to be occupied after this summer, as to the West Bank, time will tell.
Ghaddafi's been touting this idea (he calls it "Israstine") for a few years now.
It's barking mad.
The one thing both the Israelis and Palestinians agree on is they need 2 states, not 1. (Indeed, it's the fear of ending up in a single state with the Palestinians that has kept Israel from annexing the territories it occupies)
Dude learn something...it may shock you, but truth sometimes does that.
The name Palestine refers to a region of the eastern Mediterranean coast from the sea to the Jordan valley and from the southern Negev desert to the Galilee lake region in the north. The word itself derives from "Plesheth", a name that appears frequently in the Bible and has come into English as "Philistine". Plesheth, (root palash) was a general term meaning rolling or migratory. This referred to the Philistine's invasion and conquest of the coast from the sea. The Philistines were not Arabs nor even Semites, they were most closely related to the Greeks originating from Asia Minor and Greek localities. They did not speak Arabic. They had no connection, ethnic, linguistic or historical with Arabia or Arabs.
One other thing. The name "Falastin" that Arabs today use for "Palestine" is not an Arabic name. It is the Arab pronunciation of the Roman "Palaestina". The British chose to call the land they mandated Palestine, and the Arabs picked it up as their nation's supposed ancient name, though they couldn't even pronounce it correctly and turned it into Falastin a fictional entity.
So remember if Mark Twain once called your country "Slobovia"
you are occupiers of the land of Slobovia, and Slobovian cohorts of Suicide bombers will kill your women and children....It makes as much sense.
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"Dude", that's stuff I already knew.
It's you who's playing games wih the name "Palestinian", not me.
The Palestinians are a pretty well defined group of people, there's no need to try to find a new name for them just because you don't like the connotations provided by the existing name.
The area has been called "Palestine" or something similar, off and on, since before the Romans.
None of which, of course, has much bearing on the people who live there now. (Did your counry have the same name 2000 years ago? Was the largest ethnic group then the same as it is now? The answer's no to both for the vast majority of people on this board)
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So remember if Mark Twain once called your country "Slobovia"
you are occupiers of the land of Slobovia, and Slobovian cohorts of Suicide bombers will kill your women and children....It makes as much sense.
Sorry, nothing about that paragraph makes any sense to me whatsoever.
Mark Twain was supporting the Zionist plan to create a Jewish state. I merely pointed out that in talking about the plan, he used the term "Palestine" to refer to the area where the state would be set up, despite you claiming the word was not invented until some years later by a British general.
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Originally posted by Nashwan
"Dude", that's stuff I already knew.
It's you who's playing games wih the name "Palestinian", not me.
The Palestinians are a pretty well defined group of people, there's no need to try to find a new name for them just because you don't like the connotations provided by the existing name.
The area has been called "Palestine" or something similar, off and on, since before the Romans.
None of which, of course, has much bearing on the people who live there now. (Did your counry have the same name 2000 years ago? Was the largest ethnic group then the same as it is now? The answer's no to both for the vast majority of people on this board)
The people who live there now are JEWS. Did you understand the point that ARABS have never had a HOMELAND called Palistine. Since you are so well versed on the Definition of a PALISTINIAN. Suppose you enlighten me on who they are. Tell me about the History of the Palistinians as a people. Are they Arabs, Jews, Muslims, Christians, Atheists. Tell me about the History of their homeland and how the Zionist came to occupy it.
Here is the latest Palistinian map by the phony Palistinians, This is of course to insure peace....notice that Israel doesn't exist on the Map. Thats strange it does on mine. Incidently maps like this are all over the web. This is the official (If you can call it that) Palistinian version. Notice the official seal or what ever it is in the lower left hand corner. There are hundreds more maps showing that Israel doesn't exist in all countries all over the world. Now would you like a History lesson on the History of Jews in that area.
(http://www.palmpaints.com/map1.jpg)
This is from a Canadian website
(http://www.palmpaints.com/palmap.jpg)
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The people who live there now are JEWS.
Some of them are.
There are also large numbers of Muslim Arabs, smaller numbers of Christian Arabs, Druze, Bedouin etc, as well as small numbers of people representing just about every ethnicitiy/nationality in the world (there are for example about 30,000 guest workers from Thailand in Israel at any one time)
I think the total figures within Israel/Gaza/West Bank are about 55% Jews/45% Arabs, excluding the other races/religions. (Studies range from 60% Jews/40% Arabs to a 50/50 split)
Did you understand the point that ARABS have never had a HOMELAND called Palistine.
They have. Many of them were born in a country called "Pallestine" which was under British control for about 30 years.
I think the point you are trying to make is the old one that there has never been an independent country called Palestine, which is of course true. (Why people go to such lengths to make it is another reason, that's beyond me)
Since you are so well versed on the Definition of a PALISTINIAN. Suppose you enlighten me on who they are.
Type it in to Google. Dictionary.com gives a good definition:
palestinian
adj : of or relating to the area of Palestine and its inhabitants;
What more do you want?
Palestinian is the name usually given to those natives of mandate-era Palestine and their descendents who have not recieved Israeli citizenship.
Tell me about the History of the Palistinians as a people. Are they Arabs, Jews, Muslims, Christians, Atheists.
I should think they could be any of those. Any qualifying as Jews under Israel's laws and living in the area would of course be Israeli citizens, and Israelis are not usually refered to as Palestinians, being called just Israelis (or sometimes Israeli Arabs if they are of Arab descent)
Most are Muslim, with fairly large numbers of Christians making most of the rest.
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Palestinian is the name usually given to those natives of mandate-era Palestine and their descendents who have not recieved Israeli citizenship.
Look at the official Palistinian map, thats not their definition. They claim all of Israel as Palistine.
should think they could be any of those. Any qualifying as Jews under Israel's laws and living in the area would of course be Israeli citizens, and Israelis are not usually refered to as Palestinians, being called just Israelis (or sometimes Israeli Arabs if they are of Arab descent)
Look at map 2 a Canadian website...seems they can't find Israel on the map either.
But maybe you have not been aware of the fact that the reason that there is conflict in that region is mainly because they don't have a map that shows Israel. These are the maps that they use to educate their children today. It doesn't correspond to any map of the past either. Even the British mandate.
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Originally posted by GScholz
If you had the mental fortitude to read a little history you’d notice that Gaddafi bombed the PanAm flight over Lockerbie two years after Reagan bombed his family in 1984. You must enjoy being ignorant ... you’re so good at it.
Jump the gun there abit Mr Wizard?
:rofl