Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Manedew on March 26, 2005, 03:09:42 PM
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...........an old salty dog named Hunter S. Thompson was stewing about the sorry state of affairs in America.
The journalist and author fumed: " It is genuinely incredible. The U.S. Treasury is empty, we are losing that stupid, fraudulent chickencrap War in Iraq, and every country in the world except a handful of Corrupt Brits despises us. We are losers, and that is the one unforgivable sin in America."
"Beyond that, we have lost the respect of the world and lost two disastrous wars in three years. Afghanistan is lost, Iraq is a permanent war Zone, our national Economy is crashing all around us, the Pentagon's "war strategy" has failed miserably, nobody has any money to spend, and our once-mighty U.S. America is paralyzed by Mutinies in Iraq and even Fort Bragg."
"The American nation is in the worst condition I can remember in my lifetime, and our prospects for the immediate future are even worse. I am surprised and embarrassed to be a part of the first American generation to leave the country in far worse shape than it was when we first came into it. Our highway system is crumbling, our police are dishonest, our children are poor, our vaunted Social Security, once the envy of the world, has been looted and neglected and destroyed by the same gang of ignorant greed-crazed bastards who brought us Vietnam, Afghanistan, the disastrous Gaza Strip and ignominious defeat all over the world. The Stock Market will never come back, our Armies will never again be No. 1, and our children will drink filthy water for the rest of our lives."
He ended his diatribe by declaring " Big Darkness Come Soon"
Didn't realize he checked himself out on such a note......
Saw alot of BS media stuff didn't see this .......
is that any wonder?
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sad to hear
:( never give up
But I guess he was makeing a statement
was it worth a statement?.... proably not .... but would be shallow to think it the only reason.
source - http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0325-32.htm
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The ravings of a madman, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
A drug addicted moron who died sucking on the barrel of a .45 (the easy way out for a true loser) is not someone who I'd get my information or ideas from. I fail to see what gets people so entranced with the clown, I've read his crap and it is nothing I'd get fired up about.
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lol, he sounds almost exactly like a couple of people who post here on this BBS.
If he posted that here, he would have had is arse handed to him on almost every statement he made.
What a total loser.
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Originally posted by NUKE
lol, he sounds almost exactly like a couple of people who post here on this BBS.
If he posted that here, he would have had is arse handed to him on almost every statement he made.
What a total loser.
Ya know Nuke, sometimes you post something I agree with and it scares the living bejebus outa me! :eek:
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HST, like anyone else, was a human. Humans err, have a mixture of good ideas and bad ideas, etc. I see no reason to see people in "black and white" ways.
While I'd agree that taken literally, the things in this quote are way over the top and therefore not accurate, one must understand HST's style if one is to understand what he means. The guy illustrates (or did) by way of rabid exaggeration. Between the lines, if you go back and look what's quoted here, are some truths, things that I am concerned about even though I'd say that literally what's quoted is BS.
I am disappointed in anyone who judges what choices another makes regarding how to dispose of his/her own life. How can you judge unless you have intimate knowledge of their situation and motivations? Saying that suicide is 100% the act of a loser is IMO an expression of ignorance - ignorance of what other people feel, think, want, and IMO the principle of freedom of choice. Its one of those "you had to be there" kinda things.
culero
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Originally posted by NUKE
lol, he sounds almost exactly like a couple of people who post here on this BBS.
If he posted that here, he would have had is arse handed to him on almost every statement he made.
What a total loser.
says the guy who makes models...er...almost makes models.
(almost doesnt cut it)
:aok
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Originally posted by JB88
says the guy who makes models...er...almost makes models.
(almost doesnt cut it)
:aok
as usual, you have zero idea what you are talking about.
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yep.
you are right nuke.
hey, why don't you post em again for all of us to see?
;)
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He seems like an educated version of a common streetcorner doomsday prophet. Well, maybe more like a doomsday prophet who could afford a word processor instead of a cardboard sign. The message is about the same once you scrape off the prose.
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i don't think that he ever used a word processor. so far as i know he was old school...still used a typewriter.
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Here's hoping for more "statements" of that type from the Deth-to-Amreeka crowd.
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Originally posted by JB88
i don't think that he ever used a word processor. so far as i know he was old school...still used a typewriter.
It was a good old American IBM...then he stuck the Barrel of a good old US colt 45 in his pie hole and the rest is good old American History. At least he didn't shop at Walmart.
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Originally posted by JB88
i don't think that he ever used a word processor. so far as i know he was old school...still used a typewriter.
Why? Nostalgia?
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i wouldnt know.
i would guess it had something to do with familiarity.
BB has lucille.
my laptop's name is betty.
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Originally posted by VOR
He seems like an educated version of a common streetcorner doomsday prophet. Well, maybe more like a doomsday prophet who could afford a word processor instead of a cardboard sign. The message is about the same once you scrape off the prose.
Its quite reasonable for you to say that.
Having been a reader of HST for many many years, it was my impression that he deliberately used hyperbole as his distinct style, rather than as his version of literal truth. He left it to the reader to form impressions from what he wrote, and derive an understanding from those impressions...crediting the reader with enough intelligence to recognize hyperbole when seeing it.
YMMV, of course.
culero (can read between lines)
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If I was as wrong and as downbeat about everything as he was...
I would shoot myself.
lazs
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There was an American I could agree with
hunter
;) :lol
( question is will you take me seriously or can the humour gene be found?)
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Originally posted by JB88
BB has lucille.
my laptop's name is betty.
:lol
I'd be interesting to see some of your "art".
I mean, your short story in water and the beach writing was so out of this world and brilliant that I wonder if you could reach that level consistanty.
Let's see some of the stuff you've been wasting your life on.
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Originally posted by lazs2
If I was as wrong and as downbeat about everything as he was...
I would shoot myself.
lazs
Hehe :)
Thing is, while the right/wrong aspect is a matter of opinion I don't choose to debate, I must its not true that he was downbeat about everything. Much of his writing was a celebration of his enjoyment of life and liberty...and guns...motorcycles...sex drugs rock N roll, etc etc.
Don't allow his political views as expressed late in his life to make up your mind on this.
culero
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Culero. You seem to be one even-minded, reasonable BB personality. I don't mean that as a slam against the other posters here, I'm just saying I've noticed in your posts a realism, intelligence and point of view I can often relate to.
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It's hard for me to dislike a guy who uses a lot of hallucinagens, fully automatic weapons, and makes his own fireworks and expolsives. That makes him all american in my book.
I don't want to settle down anywhere where I can't blow up my shooting cars in my backyard when they become so riddled with holes that they're no fun to shoot anymore.
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Originally posted by oboe
Culero. You seem to be one even-minded, reasonable BB personality. I don't mean that as a slam against the other posters here, I'm just saying I've noticed in your posts a realism, intelligence and point of view I can often relate to.
LOL, you've obviously never seen me get really worked up to a full head of vitrolic steam :)
culero (deserves his callsign, and also is known elsewhere as Mr. WOT)
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Originally posted by Suave
It's hard for me to dislike a guy who uses a lot of hallucinagens, fully automatic weapons, and makes his own fireworks and expolsives. That makes him all american in my book.
snip
Yeah, word bro :)
culero (can relate, especially to the hallucinogens)
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well... as a former addict I can relate to how hunter "celebrated" life and maybe I am seeing it through different eyes than you culero. I see the darker side of what was doing even then. I watched a lot of drug addicts and he was no different than the more suicidal ones. I knew a few of the guys in the book on Hells Angles and I know that hunter knew that he was flirting with suicide. All of his "celebration" was beyond redkless.. It all seems very familiar to me.
Then again... maybe he was different than all the rest and only became what I thought he was latter in life. this seems unlikely to me tho since drugs retard any form of emotional growth so my guess is that he was simply a more worn out version of his younger self as he aged.
lazs
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Yeah, he was self medicating, he'd been commiting suicide for a long time, he just punctuated it with a gun.
As far as peyote and that kind of stuff, it's not really the stuff people use to fill an emptyness. It was fun in an adventerous way, back when I was a budding adult all of the dudes I knew even my civilian friends would partake in hallucinagens from time to time. But I guess it wasn't too fun because I don't know anybody that does it anymore. It kinda went along with the other adventurous stuff we did, like rapelling off of big bellybutton bridges, jumping out of planes, running around the block nude, stealing vehicles out of other units motor pools at night, clearing out nightclubs by burning CS powder in an ashtray. And a lot of stuff I'm not going to mention here. It was nice to be immortal. Good times.
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Originally posted by NUKE
:lol
I'd be interesting to see some of your "art".
I mean, your short story in water and the beach writing was so out of this world and brilliant that I wonder if you could reach that level consistanty.
Let's see some of the stuff you've been wasting your life on.
i have posted a new thread with examples for you nuke.
:)
88
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Originally posted by lazs2
well... as a former addict I can relate to how hunter "celebrated" life and maybe I am seeing it through different eyes than you culero. I see the darker side of what was doing even then. I watched a lot of drug addicts and he was no different than the more suicidal ones. I knew a few of the guys in the book on Hells Angles and I know that hunter knew that he was flirting with suicide. All of his "celebration" was beyond redkless.. It all seems very familiar to me.
Then again... maybe he was different than all the rest and only became what I thought he was latter in life. this seems unlikely to me tho since drugs retard any form of emotional growth so my guess is that he was simply a more worn out version of his younger self as he aged.
lazs
Yanno, man, IMO this falls into the category of YMMV.
I've got a long and sordid history of intoxicant abuse, too. When I was a youngster, there wasn't any bottle of liquor I couldn't conquer, and no drug I feared overdosing on. When you hear people say things like "party animal" and "sex drugs rockNroll" etc they're talking stuff I was the prototype for (and like the HA, I rode on two wheels no matter how stoned I was).
Thing is, I was never an addict. I don't have that type of personality. When I got tired of doing that stuff, I just simply stopped (even cigarettes), no sweat.
Don't get me wrong, I am not espousing "the benefits" of that kind of lifestyle. I'm just saying, it is what it is (or was). I'm experienced enough to relate to both your POV and HST's, because I've seen that depending on who we're talking about, either may be valid.
I've had enough friends in my life who suffered from alcoholism and/or addiction to realize the dangers, but I've also known many people like myself who were abusers because they enjoyed it, not because they had irresistable urges.
"Celebration" is a word people often misunderstand. Dogs celebrate finding carrion by rolling in it, for instance, and that damn sure doesn't please me...but they like it :)
culero
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well cuelo... I guess that the thing is that some people who have never seen the drug culture or observed the denizens for a long time probly need to get the insight that ol hunter showed. He was articulate and amusing for the most part..
I just find that he glorified what he was commiting suicide with and then in the end.... instead of copping to it.... he checked out so that he wouldn't have to admit what he had done.
I guess maybe his suicide was an admission of some sort tho after all. Just seems that some don't get it.
and... I have, of course, seen people who dabbled in the drug culture for years and did vast amounts who never really got hooked at the time... the onlyu proof was that some event made them stop. their abilty to stop fairly easily was the proof.. hunter never stopped. He was dependant till the day he died and totaly whiny and without remorse...he put no blame on himself that I could see.
You don't have to answer but... if the experiance was so good for you.... why don't you still do it?
lazs
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Hunter had been living on borrowed time for quite a while.
If Sonny hadn`t recognized the guy for what he was he would have been fish bait a long time ago.
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Originally posted by lazs2
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You don't have to answer but... if the experiance was so good for you.... why don't you still do it?
lazs
I fear you misunderstand me. I haven't said it "was so good" or anything of the sort. In retrospect, I would say I'd have been much better off without having wasted the time.
My point was that just as there's degrees to anything, one can't generalize about drug use/abuse and be accurate. Different people are affected in different ways. To some, drug use presents a virtually impossible to deal with addiction problem. Others may be able to use drugs to whatever degree they wish and walk away whenever they wish.
In my case, please note that what I said was that I abused drugs. I'm literally lucky to be alive (for instance, I spent most weekends one summer while stationed in Denver by riding my BSA all over the Rockies so stoned on acid I was hallucinating madly....on more than one occasion I've come awake from a drunken/stoned stupor, in my car, with absolutely no idea where I was or how the hell I got there....I once flipped upside down a motorboat going at full speed in the dark while behind a load of Jack Daniels good weed speed and Valium - not only survived, but saved the life of a passenger who had no idea how to swim....etc etc etc)
I can also say my experience with drugs cost me severely. Certainly there were times in my working career that I underachieved due to hangover and exhaustion from excessive partying. Most especially, I was offered a US military academy appointment by my congressman while I was a senior in high school (he said take my pick, West Point, Annapolis, or Colorado Springs) and actually turned him down in favor of the ROTC scholarship my ROTC instructor offered me (ROTC pays the full ride at whatever university nationwide that will accept you and has an ROTC program).
Then, while at Fort Hood with my ROTC class for tank orientation I got busted by the MPs at night wandering into a restricted area when a buddy and I snuck out of barracks after lights out to smoke a J. Poof. There went that opportunity (I was fast-tracked for a career as a military aviator, they had already sent me to Laredo AFB for two days' worth of flight medical exams which I'd passed with flying colors).
As you can see, I don't have any reason to advocate drug abuse. And, I don't.
But, as with many things, in my opinion and experience drugs can be very enjoyable if used with some degree of good sense and moderation. For instance, while its been many years since I've been drunk (legally or otherwise) I still really enjoy a nice tipple....and, while its been many years since I've used an hallucinogen, I do have some fond memories of some "trips" I've taken (especially the ones I shared with nymphomaniac females :D) And, I still occasionally enjoy a good toke with friends in the right circumstances (prolly half a dozen times in the last year, for example).
Like many subjects, this simply isn't black and white, to me. There's lotsa shades of gray....
and, of course, YMMV ;)
culero
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cuelro... I believe that I did understand you. I am not sure that you understand addiction or drugs tho. I noticed that you smoke. you can quit anytime you like tho right? how bout heroin or crack? could you quit those if you were on them for say.... 5 years?
Even as an addict it could be said that I quit "whenever I wanted to" I quit for good only after I decided that I really "wanted to". what degree you are hooked is also the the degree of how hard it will be to quit but..
No one is imune from addiction. some are more resistent and others are able to switch addictions seamlessly. Many former drug addicts (like hunter) become semi funtional drunks. I did heroin on a daily basis for several months one time but quit relatively easily when "I wanted to".. I didn't quit drugs and I didn't quit the destructive lifestyle.... but I quit the heroin... I also quit pot cause I didn't really like it.
Like you and hunter... I did self destructive things like riding for great distances on acid or booze or all ten. My body was being killed but my youth and genetics let me shake it off.
There really is no difference in the self destructive behavior of an addict or the self destructive behavior of someone not yet addicted but doing drugs in an addictive way (as you were).
Now... I do not claim that soimething of a life experiance is gained from all this but... I do claim that a lot of life experiance is also lost. Hunter never got out of it... he switched drugs of choice till the day he died and he never matured past a certain point... he lived the same experiances over and over while shutting out any new ones. That is addiction in my opinion.
When I tell people of my experiances I dwell on the spectacular as we all do. It is a form of lie if I don't also give the downside to drug addiction or useing addictively.
and...useing addictively allways leads to addiction... just that it takes longer for some folks than others.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
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I noticed that you smoke. you can quit anytime you like tho right? how bout heroin or crack? could you quit those if you were on them for say.... 5 years?
The first question's hard to answer, in that I may already have. Just like my current drinking habits, its something I do pretty much only in social situations (and then only in extreme moderation). I've lost all desire to be stoned or drunk, and don't even care about the taste etc enough to do acquire it and do it on my own. If it never came up again, I'd never notice. So, at this point, circumstances control the answer.
As to smack and crack, its also hard to say. I've tried both, didn't like either enough to ever spend any money buying them, so I automatically was never in a position to be addicted. OTOH, I smoked cigarrettes for seven years, and drank like a fish for longer. Both of those are known to be addictive, and difficult for many to "kick".
I had no trouble with quitting tobacco - woke up one morning, decided to quit, threw the half a pack I had away, never smoked again, no sweat. The drinking just went away on its own, I simply lost the desire to do it and didn't without noticing until it had been months since I'd had a drink.
Originally posted by lazs2
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No one is imune from addiction. some are more resistent and others are able to switch addictions seamlessly.
snip
When I tell people of my experiances I dwell on the spectacular as we all do. It is a form of lie if I don't also give the downside to drug addiction or useing addictively.
Agreed, pretty much what I tried to illustrate in my last post.
Originally posted by lazs2
and...useing addictively allways leads to addiction... just that it takes longer for some folks than others.
lazs
Disagree, I think this is a tad strong. My own experiences and that of many others I've seen tells me some folks abuse for whatever reason until they tire of it, then walk away without difficulty. I'll give you that stuff like smack and coke tends to be much more addictive than other stuff, but I've known people that abused those regularly and simply quit, too.
There simply aren't hard and fast rules to any of this, the variations are as numerous as personalities.
culero
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but... if a person just keeps switching from one drug to another.... when does he really stop being an addict? If he lives a life of drug abuse but seamelessly switches to booze and...
he makes bad mistakes while on booze... life altering mistakes... even tho he only does it a half dozen times a year or so... is he free of addiction? If a person is experianced with drugs and their effects... if a person knows that getting drunk may ruin his life because of how he will act... and he still get't drunk from some trigger event or another...
Is he free from addiction?
I quit lots of drugs with no problem. Quiting em all was the trick. If drugs have caused you problems in the past.. (not the drugs but the effects of drugs) and you quit them but then still allow/can't help yourself to get drunk (effect of drugs done addictively) then... are you addiction free? Is your "will" enough?
For me these are the questions I had to ask myself. I can't speak for you.
Is it smart for someone who has kicked ciggs to once or 10 times a year smoke for a day?
lazs
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You guys are not talking drug addiction; but lifestyle addiction.
Said another way; it's the ghetto phenomenon.
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Hunter S. Thompson. Old hippies never die, they just..... oh, wait. Yes they do.:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Seeker
You guys are not talking drug addiction; but lifestyle addiction.
Said another way; it's the ghetto phenomenon.
Both drug addiction and lifestyle addiction reach well beyond the ghetto.
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Originally posted by lazs2
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I quit lots of drugs with no problem. Quiting em all was the trick. If drugs have caused you problems in the past.. (not the drugs but the effects of drugs) and you quit them but then still allow/can't help yourself to get drunk (effect of drugs done addictively) then... are you addiction free? Is your "will" enough?
For me these are the questions I had to ask myself. I can't speak for you.
Is it smart for someone who has kicked ciggs to once or 10 times a year smoke for a day?
lazs
Well, it depends on the person, IMO. What's true for some may not be true for others. For example, giving up cigarettes was really easy for me. I *could* smoke intermittently if I wished, without risk of backsliding into constant smoking. Others might not be able to say the same. Same for drinking - although I used to really *seriously* abuse alcohol, now I enjoy a drink or two infrequently and never have the urge to abuse, but I have close friends who have to avoid it at all costs.
Its that YMMV thing, as with many things in life.
culero
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Originally posted by Jackal1
Both drug addiction and lifestyle addiction reach well beyond the ghetto.
Absolutely; but what I was referring to was cultural norms/peer pressure.
For example; in my "Amsterdam years" I took a lot of ecstasy. Every now and again I'd get on a health trip and drop it; but sooner or later I'd meet up with the guys and we'd be off our heads again.
Later, I moved to Copenhagen. Different social circle; different vices.
Abuse is usually a socialy reinforced action; like so many of our habits and if people really want to change their lives; changing the peer group is probably one of the best places to start.
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Originally posted by Seeker
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Abuse is usually a socialy reinforced action; like so many of our habits and if people really want to change their lives; changing the peer group is probably one of the best places to start.
Very true, in most cases.
culero
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Originally posted by Seeker
Abuse is usually a socialy reinforced action; like so many of our habits and if people really want to change their lives; changing the peer group is probably one of the best places to start.
True enough . Sometimes that is the most difficult part and for some it is next to impossible.
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I would agree that drug addiction can be socialy induced or reenforced or even that social situations can trigger old addictions.
My point is that no one capable of not becoming an addict if they work at it.
I think a lot of people who thought they were immune (I include myself) ended up as some of the most addicted. It has nothing to do with will or brains..
bet even superman could become an addict... some people have a higher/lower resistance is all. Hunter seemed to be a rather "normal" case of an addict. He switched around and lied to himself plenty and played the blame game.
lazs
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Never mind.
See the thread: Regrets of Drugs Use and Booze Poll:
eskimo