Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: wrag on March 27, 2005, 07:33:08 PM
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Finally someone is watching assault weapons in order to see to the ban of same!!!
http://www.assaultweaponwatch.com/
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Isn't it legal to own fully auto's if you have proper licensing? I think dealers or collectors license will do it. So whats the problem with banning them from wal-mart?
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Originally posted by Raider179
Isn't it legal to own fully auto's if you have proper licensing? I think dealers or collectors license will do it. So whats the problem with banning them from wal-mart?
In Texas all you need is a FFL and pay the fee's
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Originally posted by wombatt
In Texas all you need is a FFL and pay the fee's
So whats the big deal then? The hassle?
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Can I have one if I come over?
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http://new.wavlist.com/movies/189/si-smith.wav
http://new.wavlist.com/movies/277/mrd-ready.wav
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what a assault weapon is and what barbra boxer thinks a assault weapon is are too different things.
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it's a spoof website
:D
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http://new.wavlist.com/movies/063/spr-warfare.wav
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No it isn't!!! I saw it move!!!
I swear! It was coming raight at me!
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Yep it IS rabbit season.............. :rofl
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Originally posted by Maverick
Yep it IS rabbit season.............. :rofl
http://soundamerica.com/sounds/cartoons/Warner_Brothers_Cartoons/Elmer_Fudd/efudd.wav
http://soundamerica.com/sounds/cartoons/Warner_Brothers_Cartoons/Foghorn_Leghorn/shutup.wav
:lol
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Whats so special about assault rifles? If you want home protection, just use a hunting rifle, shotgun, or a handgun. Fully automatic weapons are just going to get you, your family, or innocent bystanders killed. The only countries I know of that commonly allow fully automatic weapons are African hell-holes, where the life expectancy is about 36 years old.
Theres a mentally ill and partially autistic guy I work with whos a big gun enthusiast. He goes to machine gun shoot-outs and wears fatigues to work every day. Hes a ticking time bomb. And I am pretty sure he has several guns. Laws need to be in place to protect innocent people from guys like this.
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Sun,
I get the impression you don't know what an assault rifle is. What you are describing is a machine gun.
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My post was more for the ban of fully automatic rifles. I have seen pictures describing the difference between assault rifles and regular rifles. Assault rifles have a bayonett lug, a muzzle flash supressor, etc etc.
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and they don't fire full automatic.
So you are saying the us should outright ban full auto's?
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God forbid they have a folding stock.
Lot of drive by bayonetting must have been going so, so we can understand why they banned the bayonet lug.
Flash suppressors were banned, and that only makes sense, since many of the mass killings must have been at night and we want the flash to interfere with the night vision of the shooter.
So, a rifle like the AR15 had to have the flash suppressor removed, the same with the bayonet lug. The weapon did not become more or less lethal. But, some do-gooders who don't really have a clue decided these items had to go.
Now, the ban has expired and the manufacturers can once again install the components that were irrelevant except for appearance. The lefties tremble at the thought of a scarey looking weapon being back in the hands of the owners, being used at ranges and service rifle competitions.
Reality is that "assault weapons" are legal. Full auto weapons are not outlawed despite the common misconception that they are. They are registered, and the purchaser has to pass a background check and pay a federal fee ($200 last time I checked) in the form of buying a stamp for a class 3 weapon, but they can be purchased, owned and fired.
And, I have seen that websight before, it is really funny.
dago
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Whats so special about assault rifles? If you want home protection, just use a hunting rifle, shotgun, or a handgun. Fully automatic weapons are just going to get you, your family, or innocent bystanders killed. The only countries I know of that commonly allow fully automatic weapons are African hell-holes, where the life expectancy is about 36 years old.
Theres a mentally ill and partially autistic guy I work with whos a big gun enthusiast. He goes to machine gun shoot-outs and wears fatigues to work every day. Hes a ticking time bomb. And I am pretty sure he has several guns. Laws need to be in place to protect innocent people from guys like this.
And the true feelings come out.
I trust a 5 year old with a gun who has taken a safety class more then I will ever trust a communist hippie who was handed a gun.
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Some assault rifles are easily modified to be fully automatic. Look here, a common cheap rifle from Walmarts, the mini-14 (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=2684791) . Now here is a website (http://www.butokukai.com/product4.html) that sells a book on how to make it fully automatic.
Nutjobs can easily have something more potent than a semi-automatic assault rifle just by modifying a gun to be fully automatic.
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Originally posted by Dago
God forbid they have a folding stock.
They can be quite dangerous. I pinched my finger in one and got a blood blister. I am thinking of getting in touch with a lawyer and get a class action suit going.
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Originally posted by SunTracker
Some assault rifles are easily modified to be fully automatic. Look here, a common cheap rifle from Walmarts, the mini-14 (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=2684791) . Now here is a website (http://www.butokukai.com/product4.html) that sells a book on how to make it fully automatic.
Nutjobs can easily have something more potent than a semi-automatic assault rifle just by modifying a gun to be fully automatic.
Would you care to point out exactly how many numbers of semi-autos have been converted to machine guns and used in crimes?
I think you will find the number surprisingly low.
And since that very act is quite illegal, why would you think another law or two would change anything or prevent it in the future?
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
They can be quite dangerous. I pinched my finger in one and got a blood blister. I am thinking of getting in touch with a lawyer and get a class action suit going.
:aok
Please avoid McDonalds coffee.
I own an "assault rifle". More people have died as a result of Ted Kennedy owning a car than of me owning an "assault rifle".
dago
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"Whats so special about assault rifles? If you want home protection, just use a hunting rifle, shotgun, or a handgun"
yeah, dern things just arnt that good in close quarters personal protection anyway, your much better off with a submachine gun...
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Originally posted by vorticon
"Whats so special about assault rifles? If you want home protection, just use a hunting rifle, shotgun, or a handgun"
yeah, dern things just arnt that good in close quarters personal protection anyway, your much better off with a submachine gun...
True True. Spray and Pray. Scare 'em right out the door.
My choice if I felt the need for a home self-defense weapon would be my .45 with Glazer Safety Slugs.
Easier to move around with, to enter a room with and not have it taken control of. The safety slugs would help prevent shooting through walls and hit a family member.
In my house, I dont feel the need to keep a loaded weapon around, or even quickly available. I am lucky about that.
dago
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Would you care to point out exactly how many numbers of semi-autos have been converted to machine guns and used in crimes?
Heres one. My mother works for EMS. Several years ago she was called in on a shooting of a young black man. He had been shot by an AK-47. This happened in Louisville Kentucky.
The purpose of fully automatic weapondry in the military is to suppress the enemy. This means killing people. What purpose would an automatic weapon serve the civilian population?
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Originally posted by SunTracker
Heres one. My mother works for EMS. Several years ago she was called in on a shooting of a young black man. He had been shot by an AK-47. This happened in Louisville Kentucky.
The purpose of fully automatic weapondry in the military is to suppress the enemy. This means killing people. What purpose would an automatic weapon serve the civilian population?
Suppressing the enemy doesnt mean killing them in its entirty. Suppressing fire is meant as a distraction as well. When ALOT of rounds are coming down range one tends to keep his head down. That means he's no longer shooting his rifle.
Automatic weapons are usually inaccurate unless properly trained. The biggest problem with them in crime is the fact that alot of innocents get killed while commiting them.
However, I would bet that if you did some research not many that were used for crimes were baught legally. The people that possess them and use them for crimes never had a backround check....never had a waiting period....never had to get a special
liscense.
PS not all AKs are fully auto either.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
PS not all AKs are fully auto either.
I was going to point that out myself.
The overwhelming majority of the AK47s in this country are semi-auto only.
Here is another fact: Not all firearms that are called AK47s are actually AK47s. Its a common practice by those who don't know anything about weapons to call any mean looking weapon an AK47.
Just like all corporate jets are called "Lear Jets".
dago
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Actually, an AK-47 is fully automatic. The name AK stands for Automatic Kalashnakov.
How many crimes are there where the weapon is actually recovered? If the suspect remains at large, then it is hard to tell.
So far laws have done a good job at keeping automatic weapons at bay. Take a look at prohibition to see what happens when automatic weapons fall into the wrong hands.
Suppressing the enemy doesnt mean killing them in its entirty. Suppressing fire is meant as a distraction as well. When ALOT of rounds are coming down range one tends to keep his head down. That means he's no longer shooting his rifle.
Why would a civilian need this ability? Also, while we are on the subject of tactics, when one unit is suppressing the enemy, another is supposed to move around and kill them.
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Originally posted by SunTracker
My post was more for the ban of fully automatic rifles. I have seen pictures describing the difference between assault rifles and regular rifles. Assault rifles have a bayonet lug, a muzzle flash suppressor, etc etc.
My post was more for the ban of fully automatic rifles
LOL please do some more reading .
A fully automatic has never been on the assault weapons ban!
You must have a federal lic to own a fully auto weapon.
And as far as a rifle without as to one with a bayonet lug and muzzle flash LOL.
I would bet the one with those features is no more deadly than the ones without them .
OH My GOD Martha that gun has a bayonet lug I bet its more deadly than that one without it LOL.
Heres one. My mother works for EMS. Several years ago she was called in on a shooting of a young black man. He had been shot by an AK-47. This happened in Louisville Kentucky.
LOL and Bobby Kennedy was killed with a 22cal pistol so whats the point here?
Look you wanna know what the most deadly weapon at close range is?
You guessed it the good old 12GA shot gun.
And for long distance ? try your dear old dads hunting rifle.
And you know they are eyeballing Tactical rifles now for there ban happy crusade.
You know the ones they used to call sniper rifles before some azzhats started shooting folks from the trunk of there car.
Yep the new PC name is now tactical rifles LOL.
So think about it if you wanna kill someone and go undetected you would use a high powered rifle.
But as we see time and again the crazy people who are killing
people are not to worried about getting away as when they are done they eat a bullet themselves.
So a very safe assumption is that a kook with any kind of weapon
can kill some one.
Last case in point the 9-11 high jackers used box cutters for God's sake and they managed to kill thousands.
I propose a ban on the sales of box cutters:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by SunTracker
Some assault rifles are easily modified to be fully automatic. Look here, a common cheap rifle from Walmarts, the mini-14 (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=2684791) . Now here is a website (http://www.butokukai.com/product4.html) that sells a book on how to make it fully automatic.
Nutjobs can easily have something more potent than a semi-automatic assault rifle just by modifying a gun to be fully automatic.
Wow.
Fully automatic you say?
Betcha you have to obtain certain parts to do the conversion,which you CAN'T legally obtain.
Don't believe me?
Go to a big gunshow,wander around and start asking about "semi-auto conversion kits or parts" for your Mini-14.
Better hope there aren't any ATF working the show when you do.
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Originally posted by SunTracker
Actually, an AK-47 is fully automatic. The name AK stands for Automatic Kalashnakov.
How many crimes are there where the weapon is actually recovered? If the suspect remains at large, then it is hard to tell.
So far laws have done a good job at keeping automatic weapons at bay. Take a look at prohibition to see what happens when automatic weapons fall into the wrong hands.
Why would a civilian need this ability? Also, while we are on the subject of tactics, when one unit is suppressing the enemy, another is supposed to move around and kill them.
Yes, suppression alone does not kill the enemy unless they are stupid enough to move to the open.
IF somone owns and automatic weapon and a lic. for it and they dont keep it properly secured as per the guidlines for storing such weapon they I think they should be held liable.
Sholtzy,
Many cars are stolen in the US and taken on high speed persuits. I would vetured to guess that the number of people killed or injured as a result of this has been equal or close to the amount of people killed by automatic weapons stolen from lawfull owners.
The majority of the automatics here in the US are smuggled in just like drugs. Truth be told they are not very good crime "type" weapons unless you know what you are doing or have a bunch of people really close together.
I dont think it is wise to sell full autos like we do hunting rifles BUT to ban them outright is wrong.
Banning guns is not the answer to reducing crime. If they want to make a difference throw some money at investigating illegal arms trade here in the US and that will do more to reduce "gun crime" in the US than any ban ever has.
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Originally posted by SunTracker
Actually, an AK-47 is fully automatic. The name AK stands for Automatic Kalashnakov.
So you are saying every AK-47 is full auto? :lol
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If it is a true AK-47, then yes. I know of no Russian made AK-47s that are semi-automatic.
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Great website. Thank goodness someone is doing something to remove this menace. I'm going to take their advice and buy an assault rifle to keep it off the streets. It's the right thing to do.
Trouble is they are hard to get in this country unless you're a gangster or terrorist. But I believe the IRA are going out of business and have a few spare AK 47's and AKM lying around in bunkers. They might sell me one.;)
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Originally posted by SunTracker
If it is a true AK-47, then yes. I know of no Russian made AK-47s that are semi-automatic.
the thing is anytime somone is killed from an AK or varient they call it an AK 47.
sometimes they call them full autos when they are in fact not because 47s tend to be so.
M16A1s were fully auto
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are fps games still legal?
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It's pointless if the weapon is full auto or semi-auto. Most people are 10x more leathal shots with semi-auto mode.
The issue is the large ammo capacity and the penetration power of the 7.62mm ammo. Those suckers blast through brick walls like butter.
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Originally posted by SunTracker
Some assault rifles are easily modified to be fully automatic. Look here, a common cheap rifle from Walmarts, the mini-14 (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=2684791) . Now here is a website (http://www.butokukai.com/product4.html) that sells a book on how to make it fully automatic.
Nutjobs can easily have something more potent than a semi-automatic assault rifle just by modifying a gun to be fully automatic.
I suggest you look further into that. The design of the mini14 is such it will become extremely dangerous to the user with such modifications. HINT>> it will come apart/blow up in your hands!
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
It's pointless if the weapon is full auto or semi-auto. Most people are 10x more leathal shots with semi-auto mode.
The issue is the large ammo capacity and the penetration power of the 7.62mm ammo. Those suckers blast through brick walls like butter.
Hmmmm...
actually, well hmmm.....
an M16 is 5.56mm. Yes it will cut up a brick wall at full auto. But getting a full auto version is difficult. Ammo capacity? Hmmm... a 30.06 bolt action hunting rifle will do as much damage in a very short time in trained hands. Lets talk about say a 300 magnum? A 7mm Mag? Or say a 458 Winchester Mag? And of course there is the semi-auto hunting rifles. SSSSOOOOOOO whats the difference here? 10 small 5 round mags vs 2 1/2 20 round mags? Don't take that long to reload any of em really.
The M14, M1A, HK91, FN-Fal and several others are 7.62X54. The AK series of 7.62 is 7.62x39. Also the AK type 7.62 will not fit through the barrel of the nato type 7.62.
You've seen this? The cutting through a brick wall like butter?
The Nato version will penetrate 18 inch's of losely packed dirt. The AK will not penetrate as deep due to lower velocity.
Admittedly you get hit with either one at under 200 yds. and your still in very bad shape provided you survive.
But the 5.56 has such a high velocity same thing, maybe more so.
Note there is now a AK type in 5.56mm.
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Heres a page to convert your common Ar15 (which is a civilian assault weapon) into a belt-fed machine gun. For hunting purposes I am sure.
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Originally posted by SunTracker
Heres a page to convert your common Ar15 (which is a civilian assault weapon) into a belt-fed machine gun. For hunting purposes I am sure.
?????
no link?
Converting an AR15 to belt fed? Whoa thinkin I wouldn't want to fire it. I don't believe the receiver is that strong. Would be allot weaker if cut.
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You've seen this? The cutting through a brick wall like butter?
I haven't (luckily) witnessed it first hand but news reporting of a serial killing included this info.
A psycho that was doing his military service escaped with an assault rifle (7.62) and murdered a bunch of people that had been mistreating him. He shot a clip of shots to a brick building and they penetrated the outer wall, two light inside walls and got stuck to the second outer wall. Amazingly nobody inside the buildings got killed. The morning postman wasn't so lucky. He got shot long distance to the chest and then to the head from 30cm away.
Interestingly enough he killed his first two victims with a hunting crossbow. He then proceeded to kill four more with the assault rifle untill he was arrested by the police.
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Originally posted by SunTracker
If it is a true AK-47, then yes. I know of no Russian made AK-47s that are semi-automatic.
That'll be your little secret. You sound like a legislator.
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I've shot at a brick wall at 15 meters with an 7.62mm assault rifle. It was quite fun, I intentionally missed the pop-up target and shot at a concrete window frame a few times. It took some chunks away, but I doubt it would penetrate a wall.
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Originally posted by SunTracker
My post was more for the ban of fully automatic rifles.
Ya know If I were sitting around hitting the ole crack pipe and decided that me and Pinky just had to take over the world and we just had to have full autos to do it,(which would be my last choice in weapons btw) I wouldn`t grab the latest edition of Shotgun News, nor would I run down to Joe`s Terrorists Supply Co. looking for full auto. I`d snatch up ole Pinky and we would head out to the workshop and turn out a few. Very simple to do. Most full autos are fairly simple. They are designed that way for easy servicing , cleaning, etc in combat situations.
The point being, anyone that decides on something such as this does not care about gun laws ...or any other law for that matter. Bans only work on those who follow the law and would not stop someone determined to have one.
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sheesh... the lefty disinformation league is doing it's job.
No legal fully automatic weapon in the U.S. has been used in a crime in decades.
A min 14 is not "cheap" unless you feel about $800 is "cheap" it is not easily converted to fully automatic.. there were some full auto versions made for the police but the reciever is totally different. has suntracker seen one of these "conversions" or read the ripoff books on how to do it..?
siaf continues to show his ignorance about guns... the least powerful rifles made are the so called "asault weapons" Any hunting rifle legal to kill dear will be more powerful... If a ban were based on power then Hunting would be impossible with rifles. Even some blackpowder antiques have more energy than assualt weapons.
It is allmost impossible to make a succesful conversion of current semi autos into full autos that are not dangerous to the shooter.
My M1 garand has a bayonet lug and 10" bayonet and is a semi auto rifle in a caliber that is almost twice as powerful with twice the range of an assault weapon. It takes half as long to reload as a magazine fed assault rifle and is more accurate at all ranges. At 10 lbs it also makes a great club as well as a firearm and spear. It will also take deer.
I don't mind that you guys are mamma boy pansies but there is no excuse for your being ignorant. You can't blame your mom for that one.
lazs
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So an AK 7.62X39 has the same penetrating power as any other cartridge case that uses the 7.62 bullet? Is that what you guys actually believe?
:rofl
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Originally posted by Sox62
Betcha you have to obtain certain parts to do the conversion,which you CAN'T legally obtain.
Don't believe me?
Go to a big gunshow,wander around and start asking about "semi-auto conversion kits or parts" for your Mini-14.
Better hope there aren't any ATF working the show when you do.
Actually, last time I checked, it wasn't illegal to own the conversion parts. It was illegal to own them and the gun they go in without registering it as a class 3 weapon.
So, selling them at the gunshow - not illegal.
Why would it make any sense to make the conversion parts illegal, when fully automatic weapons are legal?
But please, go on, lets not reality and fact intrude on the hysteria.
dago
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
the penetration power of the 7.62mm ammo. Those suckers blast through brick walls like butter.
LOL, good one. Again, lets not let facts intrude.
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Originally posted by Dago
Actually, last time I checked, it wasn't illegal to own the conversion parts. It was illegal to own them and the gun they go in without registering it as a class 3 weapon.
So, selling them at the gunshow - not illegal.
Why would it make any sense to make the conversion parts illegal, when fully automatic weapons are legal?
But please, go on, lets not reality and fact intrude on the hysteria.
dago
WRONG.
You can't legally alter ANY semi-auto into a fully automatic weapon.
From what I understand from the 1968 gun control act a class 2 dealer can manufacture machine guns.
You're saying that you can convert your weapon into a fully automatic version,register it and everything is fine.That's not the case.
As for why make conversion kits illegal,I can't answer that one.I didn't make the law.
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/nfa_faq.txt
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we have far too much gun control as it is. I would like to see most of the gun control laws we have repealed and no new ones that I can think of.
lazs
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Its relatively easy to obtain the automatic conversion kits. Whether they are legal or not is another matter.
Automatic weapons are the weapons of choice for drive-by shootings. How come everyone keeps saying "automatic weapons havent been used in many crimes" when every video of a drive-by I have seen has involved automatic fire?
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Originally posted by SunTracker
Its relatively easy to obtain the automatic conversion kits. Whether they are legal or not is another matter.
Automatic weapons are the weapons of choice for drive-by shootings. How come everyone keeps saying "automatic weapons havent been used in many crimes" when every video of a drive-by I have seen has involved automatic fire?
We call those things "Movies". Please note that they are not real for most of us.
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:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl pwned!
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rabbit beat me to it,
i wonder where hollywood gets them 500 round mags they use in their guns?
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http://komotv.com/news/story.asp?ID=35838
Owned? Yeah right, check this out. A drive by shooting with an AK-47.
Davis was driving northbound on Washington 167 about 1 a.m. on March 12 when a car pulled alongside him and more than 20 rounds from an AK-47 assault rifle were fired, police said. Two passengers in his vehicle were hospitalized for treatment of gunshot wounds.
Police have recovered an AK-47 and a vehicle, which was burned.
And heres another
http://www.detnews.com/2002/metro/0203/29/metro-452995.htm
DETROIT -- Two men were charged Friday with first-degree murder in a drive-by shooting, apparently during a dispute about drug-dealing turf, that killed a 3-year-old girl.
Julian Dale Key, 19, and Cedric Pipes, 21, both face a mandatory sentence of life in prison if convicted, Wayne County Prosecutor Mike Duggan said. They also are charged with three counts of assault with intent to murder and one count of felony firearm.
"Destinee Thomas is a victim of the triple scourge that afflicts too many Detroit neighborhoods," Duggan said. "Drug houses, abandoned houses, gun violence. The cycle just continues."
Destinee was shot in the head March 23 while playing near a window on the second floor of her house.
Officials believe the shooting was in retaliation to a drive-by shooting by two men a day earlier at Key's home. Duggan said police believe Pipes drove, and Key fired an AK-47.
Additional charges could be brought against others with ties to the shooting, Duggan said.
On Friday, Duggan and Detroit Police Jerry Oliver announced the start of "Project Destinee," named in the girl's memory. It is aimed at investigating, arresting and charging people affiliated with both drug dealing operations.
"We're willing to pull back resources from some lesser-important areas to really go after these people who would terrorize -- really terrorize -- our community," Oliver said.
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Originally posted by SunTracker
Its relatively easy to obtain the automatic conversion kits. Whether they are legal or not is another matter.
Automatic weapons are the weapons of choice for drive-by shootings. How come everyone keeps saying "automatic weapons havent been used in many crimes" when every video of a drive-by I have seen has involved automatic fire?
HUH?????
Weapons of choice?
What video's are you watching? Wasn't even aware such videos of the actual events were ever recorded. Wait are you talkin video's from Hollywood?
You know anything about machine tools? You know anything about what is required to convert these weapons?
We need allot more FACTUAL information please.
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Originally posted by SunTracker
http://komotv.com/news/story.asp?ID=35838
Owned? Yeah right, check this out. A drive by shooting with an AK-47.
And heres another
http://www.detnews.com/2002/metro/0203/29/metro-452995.htm
I noticed this
Duggan said police believe Pipes drove, and Key fired an AK-47.
I seem to see the word believe...
AK47 ???? God I wish the media would get there nomenclature right. Way too often they get the weapons wrong. Seems all too often anything that even looks like a rifle is an AK47 to them.
I doubt it was actually an AK47. Thinkin it was a semi-auto version as importing the full auto-version was pretty difficult with the laws that are in place.
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Originally posted by SunTracker
http://komotv.com/news/story.asp?ID=35838
Owned? Yeah right, check this out. A drive by shooting with an AK-47.
And heres another
http://www.detnews.com/2002/metro/0203/29/metro-452995.htm
Nice effort but nowhere does it say that either of them are full auto so your point remains pointless. The others are also right. The media calls most rifles ak-47's. More than once I watched the reporter show a pictures of a totally different gun and claim it was a ak-47. There are very very few AK-47's in US civilian hands. There are quite a few similar guns such as the mak-90 that look similar but are not full automatic nor can they be converted without machine shop work.
Also, for the record, I have shot many guns full auto including the real ak-47. Outside of movies you are lucky to hit a car beyond a 100ft at full auto. Semi is much deadlier.
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Originally posted by SunTracker
Heres one. My mother works for EMS. Several years ago she was called in on a shooting of a young black man. He had been shot by an AK-47. This happened in Louisville Kentucky.
The purpose of fully automatic weapondry in the military is to suppress the enemy. This means killing people. What purpose would an automatic weapon serve the civilian population?
Suntracker I don't know what planet you have been living on but fully automatic weapons have been illegal since the early 1930's. An AK-47 is illegal to own. Semi-automatic weapons are still legal,
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Actually weasel, full auto is legal to own they are just rather expensive due to supply and demand issues created by the NFA. Figure anything will cost you 3k to start, goes up pretty fast from there.
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Originally posted by GScholz
See ... we can agree sometimes. You don't need gun bans, but rather more gun control on who gets to buy such weapons (mandatory safety training) and how these people store the weapons (gun safes, rules on transportation etc.).
LOL...am I reading this thread right? Do people think owning a fully automatic weapon (a machine gun) is legal ???
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Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
Actually weasel, full auto is legal to own they are just rather expensive due to supply and demand issues created by the NFA. Figure anything will cost you 3k to start, goes up pretty fast from there.
LOL.. you better check your facts, full auto has been ilegal since the Thompson.
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Ok, heres how it has been so far-
(1) I post where a relatively cheap rifle can be bought
- Argument against it was that it is too expensive
(2) I post where a manual can be bought to convert it to automatic
-Argument against it is that it would be 'too hard'.
(3)I post where someone can take their AR15 to be converted to a belt fed machine gun
-Argument against it is that it would be too inaccurate
(4)I post about two drive-by shootings *this month* with AK-47s
-Argument against it is that the reporters and police didnt really mean AK-47.
Fascinating.
Weaselsan, you can own a full auto in the U.S. with the proper license.
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Weasel,
Fully automatic weapons are legal IF you have had the background check, fingerprints and pay the $200.00 transfer fee to the Feds. Clearance has to be obtained by the current owner from the Feds. before the transaction can be completed. Fully auto weapons are commonly called class 3. They are available and can be purchased. ALL (legal ones) are registered. It is illegal for an owner of a semi auto weapon to convert or "manufacture" a fully auto weapon. Ownership of the "parts" that would convert the weapon is not illegal. Using them would be.
BTW, that is THIS planet. :p :D
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Originally posted by SunTracker
Ok, heres how it has been so far-
(1) I post where a relatively cheap rifle can be bought
- Argument against it was that it is too expensive
(2) I post where a manual can be bought to convert it to automatic
-Argument against it is that it would be 'too hard'.
(3)I post where someone can take their AR15 to be converted to a belt fed machine gun
-Argument against it is that it would be too inaccurate
(4)I post about two drive-by shootings *this month* with AK-47s
-Argument against it is that the reporters and police didnt really mean AK-47.
Fascinating.
I guess if you can't dazzle them with your brilliance...you baffle them with your Bull****.....Again... if an AK-47 is used in a crime it was illegal to own when they got there hands on it. Now if it makes you feel any better we can pass another law making it illegal to own again.
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Originally posted by Maverick
Weasel,
Fully automatic weapons are legal IF you have had the background check, fingerprints and pay the $200.00 transfer fee to the Feds. Clearance has to be obtained by the current owner from the Feds. before the transaction can be completed. Fully auto weapons are commonly called class 3. They are available and can be purchased. ALL (legal ones) are registered. It is illegal for an owner of a semi auto weapon to convert or "manufacture" a fully auto weapon. Ownership of the "parts" that would convert the weapon is not illegal. Using them would be.
BTW, that is THIS planet. :p :D
You are referring to special needs license, ie Body guard to some Arab Shiek. To get a license for a full auto it takes dang near an act of congress. You don't walk down to Buck's gun rack plunk down some cash wait your time and walk out with an AK-47.
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Originally posted by SunTracker
Ok, heres how it has been so far-
(1) I post where a relatively cheap rifle can be bought
- Argument against it was that it is too expensive
(2) I post where a manual can be bought to convert it to automatic
-Argument against it is that it would be 'too hard'.
(3)I post where someone can take their AR15 to be converted to a belt fed machine gun
-Argument against it is that it would be too inaccurate
(4)I post about two drive-by shootings *this month* with AK-47s
-Argument against it is that the reporters and police didnt really mean AK-47.
Fascinating.
Weaselsan, you can own a full auto in the U.S. with the proper license.
What would be facinating is after you caught the drive by shooters is them flashing their license to own AK-47's:rofl
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Originally posted by SunTracker
Ok, heres how it has been so far-
(1) I post where a relatively cheap rifle can be bought
- Argument against it was that it is too expensive
(2) I post where a manual can be bought to convert it to automatic
-Argument against it is that it would be 'too hard'.
(3)I post where someone can take their AR15 to be converted to a belt fed machine gun
-Argument against it is that it would be too inaccurate
(4)I post about two drive-by shootings *this month* with AK-47s
-Argument against it is that the reporters and police didnt really mean AK-47.
Fascinating.
Come on sun, you are constantly mixing and twisting the facts to support the unsupportable while ignoring both observable fact and coherent counterarguements. I don't mean this as an insult but I'll bet you voted for Kerry last year right?
How about debating facts with facts instead half truths?
Feel free to show how many legally owned machine guns were used in crimes.
I can save you the effort because the number is very close to zero over the last few decades. Obviously full automatic weapons are not a problem at all.
The only place were you can have minimal traction is saying someone can obtain a semi auto and machine it to fire full auto. Note that doing so is illegal. Even there you will have little luck supporting your position. There are very few examples of that in the last few decades. The only one I can think of was those 2 heros in LA a few years ago. Note that they fired nearly 3000 rounds over a half hour and hit what 1 person?
The root reason why you see what you see in the movies is its the movies. It looks cool but does not actually hit much. Remember, thats the movies not the real world. Only idiots try to fire full auto. Semi auto is much more productive.
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http://www.ncpa.org/ba/ba102.html
The official Department of Defense definition of an assault rifle is one capable of both automatic fire (many shots per trigger pull) and semiautomatic (one shot per trigger pull). Automatic-fire weapons - machine guns - have been closely regulated since 1934.
A New York State Statistical Analysis Center study of homicides in 1993 in New York City found that assault weapons were involved in 16% of the homicides studied. The definition of assault weapons used was from proposed but not enacted State legislation that was more expansive than the Federal legislation. By matching ballistics records and homicide files, the study found information on 366 firearms recovered in the homicides of 271 victims. Assault weapons were linked to the deaths of 43 victims (16% of those studied).
http://www.firearmsid.com/Feature%20Articles/0900GUIC/Guns%20Used%20in%20Crime.htm
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An assault weapon as defined by the State of New York.
(http://www.palmpaints.com/boobs.jpg)
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SunTracker,
That website is using an out moded definition of assult rifle that includes shotguns, pistols, and rifles. Why not post the whole parts and not the minimal peice of the article that biases to your argument. The anti-gun lobby does this with every oped peice they release. Let your audience decide based on the whole information.
Below is from the web site SunTracker used for his 16% figure for use of assault rifles. Last 3 sections of the whole article bottom of the page.
http://www.firearmsid.com/Feature%20Articles/0900GUIC/Guns%20Used%20in%20Crime.htm
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How often are assault weapons used in crime?
Little information exists about the use of assault weapons in crime. The information that does exist uses varying definitions of assault weapons that were developed before the Federal assault weapons ban was enacted.
In general, assault weapons are semiautomatic firearms with a large magazine of ammunition that were designed and configured for rapid fire and combat use. An assault weapon can be a pistol, a rifle, or a shotgun. The Federal Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 bans the manufacture and sale of 19 specific assault weapons identified by make and manufacturer. It also provides for a ban on those weapons that have a combination of features such as flash suppressors and grenade launchers. The ban does not cover those weapons legally possessed before the law was enacted. The National Institute of Justice will be evaluating the effect of the ban and reporting to Congress in 1997.
In 1993 prior to the passage of the assault weapons ban, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF), reported that about 1% of the estimated 200 million guns in circulation were assault weapons. Of the gun tracing requests received that year by ATF from law enforcement agencies, 8% involved assault weapons.
Assault weapons and homicide
A New York State Statistical Analysis Center study of homicides in 1993 in New York City found that assault weapons were involved in 16% of the homicides studied. The definition of assault weapons used was from proposed but not enacted State legislation that was more expansive than the Federal legislation. By matching ballistics records and homicide files, the study found information on 366 firearms recovered in the homicides of 271 victims. Assault weapons were linked to the deaths of 43 victims (16% of those studied).
A study by the Virginia State Statistical Analysis Center reviewed the files of 600 firearms murders that occurred in 18 jurisdictions from 1989 to 1991. The study found that handguns were used in 72% of the murders (431 murders). Ten guns were identified as assault weapons, including 5 pistols, 4 rifles, and 1 shotgun.
Assault weapons and offenders
In the 1991 BJS Survey of State Inmates, about 8% of the inmates reported that they had owned a military-type weapon, such as an Uzi, AK-47, AR-15, or M-16. Less than 1% said that they carried such a weapon when they committed the incident for which they were incarcerated. A Virginia inmate survey conducted between November 1992 and May 1993 found similar results: About 10% of the adult inmates reported that they had ever possessed an assault rifle, but none had carried it at the scene of a crime.
Two studies indicate higher proportions of juvenile offenders reporting possession and use of assault rifles. The Virginia inmate survey also covered 192 juvenile offenders. About 20% reported that they had possessed an assault rifle and 1% said that they had carried it at the scene of a crime. In 1991, Sheley and Wright surveyed 835 serious juvenile offenders incarcerated in 6 facilities in 4 States. In the Sheley and Wright study, 35% of the juvenile inmates reported that they had owned a military-style automatic or semi-automatic rifle just prior to confinement.
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note that the Military, and for that matter the rest of the worlds definition of "assault weapon" and the legal definition of "assault weapon" you are refering to are different. You are confusing the issue.
Before quoting the NY use how about establishing what they are considering "assault weapons".
Do you understand that none of the weapons used in the crimes you quoted were machine guns?
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An assault weapon can be a pistol, a rifle, or a shotgun
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by weaselsan
You are referring to special needs license, ie Body guard to some Arab Shiek. To get a license for a full auto it takes dang near an act of congress. You don't walk down to Buck's gun rack plunk down some cash wait your time and walk out with an AK-47.
Weasel, You do not need a "special license" or any of the other things you mentioned. Sorry but class 3 weapons are available for sale, can be purchased by every day folks as long as they pass the background check and pay the transfer tax. If you don't believe me call the local ATF and ask them.
A dealer that sells that particular type of weapon is a class 3 dealer.
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ya , I know...
Thats the trick... they group tons of unrelated stuff into one big pile then claim the whole is responsible for the few. Sun is taking it one step further by claiming semi auto weapons are the same as full auto. Furthermore, he seems to think full auto is commonly used by criminals when in fact there are very few instances of it. Not to mention those few intances are illegal weapons not legal ones being used improperly.
Mav,
Don't waste your time on weas, he seems intent on showing the world that he is a jerk.
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Actually, an AK-47 is fully automatic. The name AK stands for Automatic Kalashnakov.
Also AK47 was developed in year 47, test run in 49. In 58 it was redesigned to AKM. Within US you cannot buy Russian made AK47 due to arm ban with Russia-USA (there are few made it across pond). So where exactly did they get 47 model? As others said, media names AK47 anything resembling evil looking weapon.
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Originally posted by weaselsan
To get a license for a full auto it takes dang near an act of congress.
Bzzzzzzzzzzzz. Wrong. It`s no biggy if you can pass the background check.
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the AK74 is the new model
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Originally posted by SunTracker
If it is a true AK-47, then yes. I know of no Russian made AK-47s that are semi-automatic.
Then you have never seen a "russian" AK-47 LOL.
They have a selector switch much like the M-16 A-1 and A-2.
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Originally posted by GScholz
Actually that's the 30 year old model. The AK74 is being replaced in Russian service by the AN-94
(http://www.military.com/pics/SoldierTech_AN94-1.jpg)
Yep, it's for regular units. I like this one better though.
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as10-r.htm
Can penetrate Class 3 armor at 300 meters with proper ammo. And it has build-in silencer/supressor. :Drool:
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Originally posted by SunTracker
Its relatively easy to obtain the automatic conversion kits. Whether they are legal or not is another matter.
Do tell.
Exactly where can these easy to obtain kits be purchased at?
I've never seen one.
Enlighten me...please.
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I need to find out now if my Ruger P95 and P97 are going to be illegal due to the new loaded chamber indicator law. Problem is Californias certified list isn't available at the moment. I haven't found a kit for it and I doubt anyone will buy one now because of the new law. Which means I'll be out of almost 900 bucks because of it.
Amazing that a bunch of idiots that are incompetent and don't know how to handle a firearm safely ruin it for everyone else. Maybe if they followed standard procedures for safely handling a firearm they wouldn't accidentally discharge the weapon and shoot themselves or someone else.
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Originally posted by GScholz
"loaded chamber indicator" ?
Are we talking red lights and batteries here? What idiot came up with that?
LOL
On most it is a protruding lever or tab simply indicating...........well a loaded chamber.
Very few that I know of have pop-up neon signs. :D
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Maybe the media label all automatic rifles as AK47 because is still the easiest weapon on wich put the hands on, the most produced, in number and the most, "unlicenced" copied in the world.
It's relatively easy to buy one here too, well... illegally, of course.
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sun.. as bustr pointed out.. the media is as ignorant about firearms as you are. Don't you feel the least bit..... used?
The old Walther PPK has a loaded chamber indicator.. I pin protrudes out the recoil sheild... many semi autos have extractors that protrude when there is a loaded chamber... My Kimber has a tiny cutout in the top of the dhamber that you can see the rim of the round.. revolvers you can see the rims from the side. It is better to get into the habit of actually checking rather than to depend on an indicator tho.
lazs
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and sholtzie... what is a "good" gun control law? What gun control law ever passed has saved made the place it was passed safer from homicide or crime?
What safe storage law has lessened accidents or gun crime?
I now they sound good to you but they are just touchy feely and not only wothless but in most cases... do more harm than good.
lazs
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It has been unlawful since 1934 (The National Firearms Act) for civilians to own machine guns without special permission from the U.S. Treasury Department. Machine guns are subject to a $200 tax every time their ownership changes from one federally registered owner to another, and each new weapon is subject to a manufacturing tax when it is made, and it must be registered with the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms (BATF) in its National Firearms Registry.
To become a registered owner, a complete FBI background investigation is conducted, checking for any criminal history or tendencies toward violence, and an application must be submitted to the BATF including two sets of fingerprints, a recent photo, a sworn affidavit that transfer of the NFA firearm is of "reasonable necessity," and that sale to and possession of the weapon by the applicant "would be consistent with public safety." The application form also requires the signature of a chief law enforcement officer with jurisdiction in the applicant's residence.
Since the Firearms Owners' Protection Act of May 19, 1986, ownership of newly manufactured machine guns has been prohibited to civilians. Machine guns which were manufactured prior to the Act's passage are regulated under the National Firearms Act, but those manufactured after the ban cannot ordinarily be sold to or owned by civilians.
Since 1934, there appear to have been at least two homicides committed with legally owned automatic weapons. One was a murder committed by a law enforcement officer (as opposed to a civilian). On September 15th, 1988, a 13-year veteran of the Dayton, Ohio police department, Patrolman Roger Waller, then 32, used his fully automatic MAC-11 .380 caliber submachine gun to kill a police informant, 52-year-old Lawrence Hileman. Patrolman Waller pleaded guilty in 1990, and he and an accomplice were sentenced to 18 years in prison. The 1986 'ban' on sales of new machine guns does not apply to purchases by law enforcement or government agencies.
Two homocides in 71 years....we need to take drastic action.
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sholtzei... I have not problem with mandatory testing and gun safety classes... As I have said in the past... I think it should be taught in school I don't consider that a gun control law.
The thing about "gun clubs" is just plain silly. We have thousands of square miles of open land for kids to learn to shoot. gun accidents are going down every year without that nonsense of "gun clubs" most areas don't even have em... we are not a tiny little crowded socialist country.
Places that enact safe storage have not had any effect on crime. I think as guns are so expensive... safe storage is becomoning popular. I have a very good gun safe but am not required to do so... insurance often does not pay for lost guns. many people can't afford a safe and they would be prohibited from owning guns by your rules...
safe storage negates the benifiet of an armed society. if you can't get to a gun it does you no good. My guns are inthe safe except for one or two at any one time.
admit that you really don't know anything about it and that you are just stating an opinion that has no factual basis.
your priemis that just because our gun control doesn't work doesn't mean we shouldn't keep on making it more and more stringent reminds me of the commies who say the same thing about comunism...
lazs
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Originally posted by weaselsan
It has been unlawful since 1934 (The National Firearms Act) for civilians to own machine guns without special permission from the U.S. Treasury Department. Machine guns are subject to a $200 tax every time their ownership changes from one federally registered owner to another, and each new weapon is subject to a manufacturing tax when it is made, and it must be registered with the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms (BATF) in its National Firearms Registry.
To become a registered owner, a complete FBI background investigation is conducted, checking for any criminal history or tendencies toward violence, and an application must be submitted to the BATF including two sets of fingerprints, a recent photo, a sworn affidavit that transfer of the NFA firearm is of "reasonable necessity," and that sale to and possession of the weapon by the applicant "would be consistent with public safety." The application form also requires the signature of a chief law enforcement officer with jurisdiction in the applicant's residence.
Since the Firearms Owners' Protection Act of May 19, 1986, ownership of newly manufactured machine guns has been prohibited to civilians. Machine guns which were manufactured prior to the Act's passage are regulated under the National Firearms Act, but those manufactured after the ban cannot ordinarily be sold to or owned by civilians.
Since 1934, there appear to have been at least two homicides committed with legally owned automatic weapons. One was a murder committed by a law enforcement officer (as opposed to a civilian). On September 15th, 1988, a 13-year veteran of the Dayton, Ohio police department, Patrolman Roger Waller, then 32, used his fully automatic MAC-11 .380 caliber submachine gun to kill a police informant, 52-year-old Lawrence Hileman. Patrolman Waller pleaded guilty in 1990, and he and an accomplice were sentenced to 18 years in prison. The 1986 'ban' on sales of new machine guns does not apply to purchases by law enforcement or government agencies.
Two homocides in 71 years....we need to take drastic action.
:D Finaly looked it up huh?
Like I said, no biggy if you can pass the background check.
If you can`t pass the background check and you decide to take over ........ummmmmmmm Maryland for instance, you are not going to be too interested in the law to begin with.
Bans/controls/laws only work for the people willing to follow the law to begin with. These laws/bans, etc only make it harder on the law abiding citizen.
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Originally posted by GScholz
Well, as I've said you are a nutcase, and when you learn how to spell "communism" I might start to give credence to your political opinions. However ... there are those pesky little facts that always seem to get in your way.
1. We have more privately owned guns per household in my country than in yours.
2. We can legally own any conventional weapon in my country, including things like silencers that are prohibited in the US.
3. We have virtually zero gun crime in my country.
We must be doing something right.
Here's a Norwegian Mr. Black wannabe ...
(http://www.tfs.no/doc/rifle_01.jpg)
What you don't have is a huge population of people from different cultures most living in huge metropolitan communities where the social restraints that roots and family are absent. many of these people are from the lowest social strata in their home countries. the countries where these people come from may have laws but there is no rule of law as we have here.
the social problems we experience here in our cities are nonexistant in our often homogenous rural communities.
you can't compare Norway with the United States. a more fair comparrison might be Montana and Norway.
I don't know why I even bother. you euros are beyond any measure of hope.
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Personally, I think much of crime is due to a breakdown in the family structure.
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Be a little difficult to compare.
Norway Population* (2002 est.): 4,524,066.
4, 606, 400 people by 1 January 2005
U.S. population 295,761,478
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We have been over this before Lazs. Mandatory safety training with exams. Mandatory "grace-period" in a gun club to get some experience with firearms before being able to buy your own. Mandatory safe storage to prevent theft. Mandatory supervised use (i.e. range instructors/safety supervisors present at all shooting events).
For a long time I would have agreed with you, more or less. I was raised with guns (had my first .22 at age 7), served in the military, worked small arms ranges in a training unit, etc. but had experienced some rather unsettling moments on civilian ranges from the occasional moron. For some people, their only experience with firearms is from TV and they see a firearm as a toy. Similarly, someone who is marginally stable can get a gun and one day "go postal." Some form of involved screening or additional usage controls might reduce both these risks.
But... it has become clear that there is really no middle ground today. The anti-gun people are serious about eliminating the 2nd Amendment and will use any "reasonable" form of control as a stepping stone for the next incremental move, and so on. Registration one day creates a list for confiscation the next. That is not being paranoid, but, IMO a reality. Which is too bad, because there are an awful lot of morons with access to guns and if you thought the other side was reasonable and well intentioned you might be able to reach a middle ground.
Charon
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Originally posted by GScholz
Make up your mind. On one hand you guys say Europe is being overrun by immigrant Muslims, and on the other you say we are homogenous people. 10% of all Norwegians are first or second generation immigrants and most of our population live in the cities.
Is there no gun crime in Montana? ... funny, that's kind of the opposite of what I've been led to believe.
has that happened in Norway also? hmmm. I thought muslims were on the continent and in Sweden for the most part.
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Two facts regarding gun control have always puzzled me. From a legal point of view, it is today harder than it has ever been to obtain a firearm. (Not that it's hard, just harder.)
From a social point of view, to have heard of a crackpot walking into McDonalds say 40 or 50 years ago with the intent of mass murder followed by suicide would have been an exceptional thing. For a child to have done such a thing might have been unheard of. Today, sadly, it seems to be commonplace.
So..why are people (especially kids) killing each other today? Do we want to honestly answer this question?
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Ok, I agree. Social problems. Now, the next question is naturally "why"?
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VOR,
FWIW, you are looking in the right direction. It is not an "object" that is at fault, it is the person. The time frame you indicate, 40 to 50 years ago, people were not in the same "environment" growing up that they are now. There are a whole raft of social situations that kids find themselves growing up in now that were not present then. That is not to state that there were not any "bad" people then as now.
IMO there are folks who are simply born with a prediliction towards bad or antisocial behaviors. Some may say environment is the key but I think it's both and environment is the weaker of the stimuli towards that kind of behavior. Some folks are just born psychopaths. (IMO)
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This all makes sense, but the question of why a nutcase today is more willing to act out aggressions than past nutcases remains.
My next question is how can the problem actually be fixed, and will it require us to look closely at how we live, work and entertain ourselves?
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Part: 1
Muslim Rape Epidemic in Sweden and Norway—Authorities Look the Other Way
Fjordman blog, Feb. 20
Numbers released in January 2005 indicate a sharp rise in the number of rape charges in Malmö, Sweden’s third largest city:
Thomas Anderberg, responsible for statistics at the Malmö Police, says there was a doubling of the number of reported rapes by ambush in 2004, following what was already a decade of steadily increasing numbers of sexual crimes.—I think that’s great news, says Anna Gustafsson, head of the Domestic Violence Unit at the Malmö Police. She suggests that the increase is due to the fact that women who otherwise wouldn’t press charges for rape now choose to contact the police.
In other words, Gustafsson claims that we are dealing with a “technical” increase, not a real one. However, national statistics reveal that reported rapes against children have almost doubled in Sweden during the past ten years:
According to Swedish Radio on Tuesday, statistics from Sweden’s National Council for Crime Prevention show that the number of reported rapes against children is on the rise. The figures have nearly doubled in the last ten years: 467 rapes against children under the age of 15 were reported in 2004 compared with 258 in 1995. Legal proceedings continue this week in a case involving a 13 year old girl from Motala who was said to have been subjected to a group rape by four men. (Note: These four men were Kurdish Muslims, who raped the girl for hours and even took photos of doing so)
The number of rape charges per capita in Malmö is 5—6 times that of Copenhagen, Denmark. Copenhagen is a larger city, but the percentage of immigrants is much lower. And it’s not just the rape statistics that reveal a scary increase in Malmö or Sweden. Virtually every kind of violent crime is on the rise. Robberies have increased with 50 % in Malmö only during the fall of 2004. Threats against witnesses in Swedish court cases have quadrupled between 2000 and 2003. During the past few decades, massive immigration has changed the face of Sweden’s major cities, as well as challenged the viability of the welfare state. In 1970 Sweden had the fourth highest GDP per capita among developed countries with income about 6% above the OECD average. By 1997 it was at fifteenth place with an average GDP per capita 14% below average. Malmö has a heavy concentration of Muslim immigrants in particular. According to some estimates, it will be a Muslim majority city in no more then 10 years. Crime is rampant in the growing ghettos:
Becirov runs the Islamic Center of Malmö, on the outskirts of Sweden’s third-largest city. Some immigrant neighborhoods in the city have (official) unemployment rates exceeding 50 percent. Swedish authorities have failed to lift up the area, and seem to be giving the Islamic Center of Malmö a great deal of leeway in attempting to do so. An article that appeared in 2003 noted that “a few” of the 6-to 10-year-old girls were wearing headscarves. On a visit in January 2005, fully 80 percent were covered in class—only a handful were not. In a fit of absent-mindedness, Sweden has suddenly become as heavily populated by minorities as any country in Europe. The percentage of foreign-born is roughly equivalent to the highest percentage of immigrants the United States ever had in its history (on the eve of World War I). Rosengård appears to be all-immigrant. The public schools have virtually no ethnically Swedish children. There are stories—familiar in other parts of Europe where immigrants from the Muslim world have recently settled—of students harassing Jewish teachers and defacing textbooks that treat Jewish themes. Crime is high.
Is it unfair and “racist” to suggest a link between the influx of Muslim immigrants and the growing number of rapes? Not if we compare with the situation in neighboring Denmark, where this trend has been evident for years:
Criminologist: immigrants are rape champions
If one leading expert is to be believed, the sharp rise in the number of rapes in this over the last 5 years is largely attributable to a group of unemployed and alienated immigrants. ‘Over the last 5-10 years there has an increasing tendency to marginalise and alienate immigrants,’ says Professor Flemming Balvig, a criminologist at Copenhagen University. ‘As a result, many second generation immigrants have reacted against this through various types of criminal activity, including rape.’
Muslim rape concern
Alarmed at last week’s police statistics, which revealed that in 68% of all rapes committed this year the perpetrator was from an ethnic minority, leading Muslim organisations have now formed an alliance to fight the ever-growing problem of young second and third-generation immigrants involved in rape cases against young Danish girls.
As Robert Spencer has demonstrated, rape can indeed be linked to Islamic teachings of Jihad, and even to the example of Muhammad himself, his Sunna. Above all, it is connected to Islamic notions of the role of women in society, and their behaviour in the public sphere. An Islamic Mufti in Copenhagen sparked a political outcry after publicly declaring that women who refuse to wear headscarves are “asking for rape.” Apparently, he isn’t the only Muslim in Europe to think this way:
The German journalist Udo Ulfkotte told in a recent interview that in Holland, you can now see examples of young, unveiled Moroccan women with a so-called “smiley”. It means that the girl gets one side of her face cut up from mouth to ear, serving as a warning to other Muslim girls who should refuse to wear the veil. In the Muslim suburb of Courneuve, France, 77 per cent of the veiled women carry veils reportedly because of fear of being harassed or molested by Islamic moral patrols.
Hijab, the Islamic veil, is thus not “just a piece of cloth”. It serves as a demarcation line between proper, submissive Muslim women and potatos, un-Islamic women who deserve no respect and are asking for rape. The veil should more properly be viewed as the uniform of a Totalitarian movement, and a signal to attack those outside the movement. Judged in the light of the Mufti who said that women who don’t wear it are asking for rape, how on earth can the veil be said to be about “choice”? The freedom to choose not to be raped if you dress in a normal fashion in your own country? Is that what freedom is about in Europe in 2005?
Even though Sweden, unlike Denmark, has almost no public debate about immigration, frustration is very much present underneath the surface. 75 % of Swedes think that many people in their country “dislike” Muslims, more than in any other European nation surveyed. Even in Holland, which recently witnessed violent clashes with Muslims after the murder of Islam-critic Theo van Gogh, the rate is lower than in Sweden. But you’re not supposed to talk about such issues in Sweden. That would be “racist”:
Swedish laws prohibiting “hate speech” against racial minorities have been vigorously enforced. There have, for example, been a number of gang-rapes of Swedish women by Muslim immigrants. But Swedes must be careful what they say about them. On May 25, neo-Nazi Bjorn Bjorkqvist was convicted and sentenced to two months in prison for writing, “I don’t think I am alone in feeling sick when reading about how Swedish girls are raped by immigrant hordes.” [“Jag tror inte jag är ensam om att må dåligt när jag läser om hur svenska tjejer har våldtagits av invandrarhorder”]
All in all, we must say that there is strong circumstantial evidence indicating that the rise in rape charges in the city of Malmö could very well be real, which puts the Malmö Police assertion that this is “great news” in a rather curious light. And the problem is not just limited to Sweden. It exists in Norway, too:
Rape charges in the capital are spiraling upwards, 40 percent higher from 1999 to 2000 and up 13 percent so far this year. Police Inspector Gunnar Larsen of Oslo’s Vice, Robbery and Violent crime division says the statistics are surprising—the rising number of rape cases and the link to ethnic background are both clear trends. But Larsen does not want to speculate on the reasons behind the worrying developments. While 65 percent of those charged with rape are classed as coming from a non-western background, this segment makes up only 14.3 percent of Oslo’s population. Norwegian women were the victims in 80 percent of the cases, with 20 percent being women of foreign background.
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Part: 2
Europe: Tolerating Intolerance
An incredibly revealing article that tells us all we need to know about the multiculturalist fetish in Europe and some parts of North America, not to mention the need for change within Islam. Apparently, the Norwegian newspaper Dagbladet reported that 65 percent of rapes of Norwegian women were performed by “non-Western” immigrants—a category that, in Norway, consists mostly of Muslims. The article quoted a professor of social anthropology at the University of Oslo (note: her name is Unni Wikan) as saying that “Norwegian women must take their share of responsibility for these rapes” because Muslim men found their manner of dress provocative. The professor’s conclusion was not that Muslim men living in the West needed to adjust to Western norms, but the exact opposite: “Norwegian women must realize that we live in a multicultural society and adapt themselves to it.”
In January 2005, Norwegian media reported that 2004 saw the highest number or rape charges ever recorded in the capital city of Oslo. Strangely enough, there was now no mentioning of how immigrants were grossly overrepresented in rape cases. Why not? Unless there has been a sudden and unexplained drop in the number of immigrants raping Norwegian women between 2001 and 2004, which is unlikely, the statistics should be at least as staggering in 2005 as they were before. If they are not revealed, it can only mean that “somebody” didn’t like the numbers presented in 2001, and decided to bury them. That “somebody” must be a person at the very top level in the police, maybe even in the government. If so, that is disquieting. What is even more disquieting is that the media are equally silent about this. How come no journalists are digging into the material? And where are all the professional Feminists, in a Scandinavian nation brimming with them?
The conclusion one may draw from this is that the authorities in Sweden and Norway know about, or should know about, a disturbing amount of Muslim immigrant rapes of native Scandinavian women, yet choose not to make this information known to the public. Perhaps it would be just too politically incorrect to reveal the negative effects of decades of naïve immigration policies. Perhaps it would also destroy too many multicultural pipe dreams among the intellectual elites, who have built their current careers and reputations on advocating how culturally and economically enriching this new population mix would be. So in the end, the safety of young Scandinavian women is sacrificed in order to keep the glossy image of a multicultural society intact. It is a chilling demonstration of an Eurabian continent that now appears to care more about not upsetting relations with its immigrant population than about protecting its own citizens.
(Posted on March 22, 2005)
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Scholz,
This is very intreresting as the media here has very little (none as far as I know) public information being broadcast about this problem.
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If it is like the "blog" suggests, it is more than just a rape problem and is indicative of other more insidious problems. Not the least would be the inability or unwillingness for those Muslims engaged in this situation to accept their new homes and have any shred of acceptance for others not like themselves. In otherwords you have an ethnic or "racial" if you like, problem not just a "rape" problem.
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If you dig around for american statistics you will find that one demographic group which comprises 16% of our population of roughly 240Mil commits 40% of the total rapes.
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Sure there are serious problems with immigrants, ..., but they are being dealt with.
*snork*
Ya, your women are being sacrficed. WTG
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shlotzie... I admit that I know as little about norway as you know about the U.S.
The difference of course is that I would not think of going on a squiarehead BB and flaunting my ignorace by trying to impose U.S. gun laws on squareheads.
lazs
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And what would be wrong with that?
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ok try Miami. I would do it myself but I'm a computer idiot
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Originally posted by GScholz
The fact of the matter is that cultural integration is a very difficult and time consuming process. .
yes , it takes time and work to rape all them white wimmen.
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Originally posted by GScholz
I could not find it, perhaps Miami is one of the safer spots?
All I could find was that statistically 45 women are raped annually at the Miami University. Only three more and they'd match Norway.
I'm sure it's far more than 45
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Originally posted by Jackal1
:D Finaly looked it up huh?
Like I said, no biggy if you can pass the background check.
If you can`t pass the background check and you decide to take over ........ummmmmmmm Maryland for instance, you are not going to be too interested in the law to begin with.
Bans/controls/laws only work for the people willing to follow the law to begin with. These laws/bans, etc only make it harder on the law abiding citizen.
I didn't have to look it up to know it was illegal to own an automatic rifle manufactured after 1986. Also the only way you can get one that was manufactured before 1986 is to have it transfered to you by it's previous owner. Which means he must get another the same way. No biggie? Try and get permission. I have a concealed weapons permit for the State of Florida and it took me over six weeks of pure crap to get it. Thats after a background check, small arms training a squeaky clean record and 30 years military service. The discussion is about Gun Control Laws. Passing laws only affects law abideing people, not criminals. They could care less how many laws you pass. On the contrary, it makes it easier on them by disarming the population.
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Originally posted by GScholz
Ok, let's try to put things in perspective here. Convicted rapists in 2001
New York: 1,994 convicted
Norway: 48 convicted (111 charged)
Yes I know New York is a big city and Norway only has half the population and they cannot be fairly compared, BUT ... just to give you guys some perspective on how big a problem rape is in Norway. [/B]
Thats cause Norwegian women can grow a better moustache than I can:lol
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Originally posted by Charon
had experienced some rather unsettling moments on civilian ranges from the occasional moron. For some people, their only experience with firearms is from TV and they see a firearm as a toy.
Charon
Are you actualy trying to convince us that at the range you are not suppose to walk up and yell... " Yo MFer! Brace Yoself" then turn your handgun sideways and strafe all of the targets? :D
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Are you actualy trying to convince us that at the range you are not suppose to walk up and yell... " Yo MFer! Brace Yoself" then turn your handgun sideways and strafe all of the targets?
LOL. You forgot the part about turning around afterwards with a big grin while sweeping the bang-bang end of the pistol over all of the firing points :)
Charon
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:D
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Originally posted by weaselsan
I didn't have to look it up to know it was illegal to own an automatic rifle manufactured after 1986.
I beleive this is yours......
Suntracker I don't know what planet you have been living on but fully automatic weapons have been illegal since the early 1930's.
and this.......
LOL...am I reading this thread right? Do people think owning a fully automatic weapon (a machine gun) is legal ???
and this......
LOL.. you better check your facts, full auto has been ilegal since the Thompson
and this.....
You are referring to special needs license, ie Body guard to some Arab Shiek. To get a license for a full auto it takes dang near an act of congress.
:D
I agree with bans/laws making it easier by disarming the public. If.......we let that happen. I don`t intend to.
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Originally posted by SunTracker
Automatic weapons are the weapons of choice for drive-by shootings. How come everyone keeps saying "automatic weapons havent been used in many crimes" when every video of a drive-by I have seen has involved automatic fire?
LOL, every video you have seen! You watch too much TV. Maybe you are just yanking our chain with that comment.
How many drive-bys you actually been involved in or had first-hand knowledge of?
Dont confuse televison with reality.
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GScholz,
I am pretty sure it is possible to legally own a suppressor, but they are subject to the same conditions/laws and cost as a full auto weapon. For that reason, most people dont bother getting one.
dago
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Here is a good weapon for those with a hankering for fun:
Suppressed Full Auto for sale (http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=6392577)
Cant wait to get me one!
dago
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Originally posted by Dago
Here is a good weapon for those with a hankering for fun:
Suppressed Full Auto for sale (http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=6392577)
Cant wait to get me one!
dago
LOL sure 14.5k !!!
think they will take a check LOL.
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Drop in Auto Sear for the AR15 to M16 conversion:
DIAS (http://www.quarterbore.com/nfa/dias.html)
Buy this and have fun, but please dont rock the world of those who know these dont exist.
dago
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Oh yeah, don't go to this page unless you are willing to be shocked by the sight of semi-auto only AK47s for sale.
Semi-Auto AK47s (http://www.gunsamerica.com/1030/1030-random-1.htm)
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Originally posted by wombatt
LOL sure 14.5k !!!
think they will take a check LOL.
:D
Never said this stuff was cheap, just that it was available. A nice fact is that since the price on full auto weapons is so high, they tend to be purchased by people with the brains, at least enough to accumulate some disposable cash.
dago
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When mentally unstable people come in contact with fully automatic weapons, bad things result. Anyone remember when a soldier at Fort Knox went bezerk and shot a bunch of his squad mates? Happened in the mid 90s.
I do have to say I'm pretty proud of the U.S. for keeping automatic weapons out of the hands of most nuts.
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Originally posted by SunTracker
When mentally unstable people come in contact with fully automatic weapons, bad things result. Anyone remember when a soldier at Fort Knox went bezerk and shot a bunch of his squad mates? Happened in the mid 90s.
I do have to say I'm pretty proud of the U.S. for keeping automatic weapons out of the hands of most nuts.
Dear Lord, that is a reach.
How about a link or some facts about your berserk soldier?
Not really relevant to the discussion.
Yes, we hope the US has kept and will keep weapons away from mentally disturbed individuals. But, many of us also hope they do not prevent competetant law abiding citizens retain their second ammendment rights.
dago
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Originally posted by SunTracker
When mentally unstable people come in contact with fully automatic weapons, bad things result.
When mentaly unstable people come in contact with cars, bad things results.
When mentaly unstable people come in contact with 2x4s , bad things result.
When mentaly unstable people come in contact with most anything, bad things result.
When mentaly unstable and uninformed people come in contact and are given the power to have input on our freedom , then things get very dangerous for all.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
When mentaly unstable and uninformed people come in contact and are given the power to have input on our freedom , then things get very dangerous for all.
We call them "liberals".
Good points all.
dago
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Yes, we hope the US has kept and will keep weapons away from mentally disturbed individuals. But, many of us also hope they do not prevent competetant law abiding citizens retain their second ammendment rights.
What do you think every single gun law is about? If every single citizen was perfectly sane, and perfectly responsible, then we wouldnt need gun laws. But unfortunately, not everybody is sane or responsible. 6 to 7% of the population is always going to be criminal, insane, or abusive. So laws that let people have weapons must be balanced due to this 6 or 7%.
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Originally posted by Dago
GScholz,
I am pretty sure it is possible to legally own a suppressor, but they are subject to the same conditions/laws and cost as a full auto weapon. For that reason, most people dont bother getting one.
dago
Why are suppressors restricted in the US ?
It just seems strange.
In NZ shooters are actually encouraged to use them to keep the noise level down. There are no restrictions on them or the type of gun you can put them on. They are even being made and fitted to shotguns. Most people who use them use the muzzle-can type of suppressor but fully suppressed rifles are increasingly popular and can be bought over the counter at some of the gun shops, which is a good option if you don't wont too go to the trouble of getting a gunsmith to fit one.
Excel
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Originally posted by SunTracker
But unfortunately, not everybody is sane or responsible. 6 to 7% of the population is always going to be criminal, insane, or abusive. So laws that let people have weapons must be balanced due to this 6 or 7%.
Those are the people that could care less how many bans/laws you pass. It does not affect them. They are not interested in laws.
Less bans and restrictive gun laws= more armed citizens which in turn means less criminals are able to commit their crime of choice.
As I have said before , if Joe Crackhead pulls up to the 7-11 and is thinking about grabbing some quick cash for his next hit, he is going to think twice if there might be a possibility that Granny behind the cash register might be packing heat in her smock. :D
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excel... I have allways felt the same about suppressors.. they even help stop hearing loss. I think in the U.S. the supressor got the same know nothing bad rap as full autos and "sawed off shotguns" in that some criminals used em and the womanly suntrackers amoung us at the time got all hysterical and pretended to know all about it and then banned em.
I think they were afraid that assasins would sprout like machine gun kelly's if we allowed silencers. could the saint valentines masacre have happened without full autos? of course... More people in the U.S. are killed with single shot or bolt action 22 rifles every year than are killed with "assault rifles" .
That is why I say that we should dump all our gun control laws and start over.
lazs
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The biggest enemy to proper gun regulation is the left wing gun banners in the US. Without their propaganda campaigns based on lies and disinformation the issue could be much more cleanly decided.
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Lazs,
If there was any rational thought put into the matter, then the benefits to be gained by using suppressors should overcome any historic prejudice and myths about them. But the problem is that ignorance and axe grinding agendas seem to play a bigger part than rational thinking when governments decide on gun control measures. In that respect, things arn't much differant here than they are in the US.
Excel
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yep... I believe that 99% of all politicians are driven by the urge to gather votes by creating an evil and then becomeing the person who bans it or saves everyone from himself.. they don't know or care about the subject, only how much publicity it can garner and how much sensationalism value it has.
The suntrackers of the world allow it to continue. Hell... if you subscribe to a newspaper or watch the news you are part of the problem.
lazs
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Originally posted by Dago
LOL, good one. Again, lets not let facts intrude.
Even though I've seen the place where this happened by a serial killer? I saw the bullet holes and the news report revealed they penetrated 3 layers of walls, one of which was brick ladden outer wall.
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siaf... you need to only know that assault weapons rounds are between a pistol and a full rifle in power... they are much less powerful than a normal rifle round.
lazs
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All this talk of assault weapons is baloney..
1 ww1 -ww2 7.62 mauser (about $80 bucks)(scope $100) with a modern day scope can do as much if not more dammage then a ak47 or ar15.. note at range.. (in close give me the AK)
hell a 12 guage sportster sporting a scope and sabot/slugs (yes fellas thats .68 cal) is a pretty powerful weapon.. imo more freaking lethal than any so called assault weapon..
of these 2 exps 1 is regulated (ar15 ak47 etc..mini 14 etc..), one is not.. ( 68cal super penatration sabot BP vest defeater..)
All these brady laws and other crap are to give a false illusion of safety ("hey were on top of things")
what a freaking croc.....
It looks menacing therfore it is thought process is freaking ignorance..
dumbarse freaking soccer moms...
DoctorYo
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Originally posted by GScholz
Cool.
$500 per supressor license in Texas. Limit 1 per gun. iirc, you must also have a Class III/Collectors permit on top of that, which can get pricey.
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Lazs with penetration of 3 walls I couldn't care less.
I wouldn't want a looney to wield an automatic weapon capable of penetrating walls anywhere.
Any weapon is dangerous but an assault rifle with a large clip creates a lot of damage in a very short time.