Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: ALF on March 29, 2005, 10:53:39 PM
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Be aware that SH3 installs STARFORCE.
If you dont know what it is, just do a search on SIMHQ message boards and the like. It changes the actual drivers that let your disk/hard drives communicate with the system (including most severly some times USB drives). Be aware, I personally refuse to buy any software using it, and would love to hear what Skuzzy thinks.
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Yep, I didn't buy it for exactly this reason. It works fine for most people (so I've read) but on others it has messed up their DVD and CD drives. Starforce installs hidden drivers in Device Manager for ALL your IDE devices I believe.
And BTW, there's no mention of these drivers anywhere on the box or the EULA. No thanks.
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ouch.
Is it the copy protection system? Does it unistall when I remove SHIII? not that I can see doing that.
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Big Brother is watching...
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Originally posted by Pongo
ouch.
Is it the copy protection system? Does it unistall when I remove SHIII? not that I can see doing that.
It does not, you actually have to use a 3rd party utility to remove it. The real issue is that it changes all of the IDE/USB/SATA drivers that tell you computer how to communicate with its hardware, which impacts everything the computer does....it is evil stuff.
Do you want a 3rd party replacing your core drivers that impact not just the one program they came with, but ALL PROGRAMS...I dont. What happens when a competetor (or several) makes their own 'special' drivers for my devices as their proprietary copy protection scheme?
This goes far beyond normal prcedures like safedisk and the like, which operate in a caccoon and doesnt effect your entire OS. With starforce you get every single byte of data written and read from your computers drives (CD/HD/DVD/USB etc) controlled by 3rd party driver.
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So,
What are you saying? I have SH3 installed on an XP system and all the device drivers are listed as Microsoft with dates in the 2001 time frame. Has Starforce somehow 'tricked' WinXP and replaced the hardware device drivers with modified versions that don't show up as changed in the driver menu? That really doesn't make sense.
Regards,
Malta
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Here's an article on Starforce. (http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000477025364/)
In Windows XP, go to the Device Manager. In the view menu up top, click the "Show hidden devices". If you've successfuly installed SHIII then you'll se the Starforce drivers. I think it's under ATA/IDE ATAPI controllers.
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I have SH3 installed. I can't find any indication of StarForce.
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I jus tbought Brothers in Arms and it wont run on my system because I use a CDRW. It requires a cd-rom drive. Some sort of protection against copying I guess. Is this similar?
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Ah,
Yes, I see the Starforce drivers under the "hidden devices" in Device Manager. Starforce is not alone. There are more "hidden" devices on my system than not hidden.
I have burned DVD's since having Starforce installed with no problems. I will keep this in mind when I uninstall SH3 or consider any future Ubisoft products.
Regards,
Malta
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Why would SH3 need something that alters current drivers? Does it run without starforce?
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I have it too...
Does anyone have a list of software titles that use this?
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I think it is installed with Pacific Fighters or another Ubisoft product as well. I don't have SH3 but I have PF in a combined installation with AEP and FB and Starforce is on this computer as well.
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EW, it's on my computer, get if off, get it off!!!
Thanks for the heads up.
g00b
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Originally posted by FiLtH
I jus tbought Brothers in Arms and it wont run on my system because I use a CDRW. It requires a cd-rom drive. Some sort of protection against copying I guess. Is this similar?
I had the same problem with SH3, work around was copy the DVD to my plug in 120 gig H/D, load the game from the H/D once you've done it and then play using the game DVD.....pain in the arse but it works.
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Originally posted by GScholz
Prozac time.
http://www.firingsquad.com/features/starforce_interview/
That interview is a pandering joke. The most important concerns are never touched in the interview. Even a concern the site puts in the forward, is completely ignored in the question and answer phase:
- Why do you think its ok to maliciously destroy the installs of other legitimate programs like Alcohol so that they not only dont work while your program is active, but are actually rendered useless, even if your 'protection' is uninstalled, and in some cases, cannot be fixed without a complete Re-format and install of the OS?
- DOnt you think its a little pretentious to say its 'ok' that you install your software without permission because the user must have agreed to the EULA which states we can destroy computer up if we want to, is that your position?....what about Demos like Trackmania that DO NOT have a EULA and never warn of Starforce? Are you that affraid of being upfront and honest?
- Why did a 3rd party have to develop the removal tool?
- You say things like "the developer can make back his expendature in Starforce with just 300-400 copies that are sold instead of pirated"....do you have any concreate numbers on how effective SF is in preventing piracy....no...I said CONCREATE and NUMBERS
- How much is a publisher likely to lose when hundreds or thousands refuse to buy their games because of starforce, and do you have and idea how many people who never used cracks will be introduced to them because of Starforce incompatabilities......do you think these people may just get the next program for free and not bother buying it....since they now know where to go for cracks.
- You elude to 'who wants to download 500 megs'....why would that be so unusual...some game DEMOS are 200 megs now
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I kept waiting for the question:
"So being that Starforce is the best software program out there and everyone should be shot who doesnt imediatly install it....what are your next plans"
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Way round it -
Install the game
Get the nodvd fix
Run the starforce cleaner/remover
ONLY to be done on legal installations, I am not advocating cracking copies.
I thought a recent law made it illegal for companies to install things in addition to the main program without a clear indication on the box?
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Kev said:
I thought a recent law made it illegal for companies to install things in addition to the main program without a clear indication on the box?
Don't know about USA, here in Yurop it seems to be enough to mention it in the EULA. There's supposedly a paragraph about StarForce in there... but who reads them anyway.
Reschke, I haven't noticed StarForce after installing PF+FB+AEP pack, but of course I haven't known to look for it.. I just recently bought and installed SH3, so I haven't checked my drivers after installing PF etc pack.
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there are 3 drivers that I found of Starforce. They are located under non-plug and play drivers under the hidden drivers view in device manager. I uninstalled then and then reboot. No more starforce at least in the device manager.
After looking into it even further, I decided to check registry for starforce and found it installs another set of drivers in your C:\WINDOWS\system32\drivers folder under the name sfdrv01.sys, sfsync02.sys and sfhlp02.sys.
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Originally posted by ALF
That interview is a pandering joke. The most important concerns are never touched in the interview. Even a concern the site puts in the forward, is completely ignored in the question and answer phase:
- Why do you think its ok to maliciously destroy the installs of other legitimate programs like Alcohol so that they not only dont work while your program is active, but are actually rendered useless, even if your 'protection' is uninstalled, and in some cases, cannot be fixed without a complete Re-format and install of the OS?
- DOnt you think its a little pretentious to say its 'ok' that you install your software without permission because the user must have agreed to the EULA which states we can destroy computer up if we want to, is that your position?....what about Demos like Trackmania that DO NOT have a EULA and never warn of Starforce? Are you that affraid of being upfront and honest?
- Why did a 3rd party have to develop the removal tool?
- You say things like "the developer can make back his expendature in Starforce with just 300-400 copies that are sold instead of pirated"....do you have any concreate numbers on how effective SF is in preventing piracy....no...I said CONCREATE and NUMBERS
- How much is a publisher likely to lose when hundreds or thousands refuse to buy their games because of starforce, and do you have and idea how many people who never used cracks will be introduced to them because of Starforce incompatabilities......do you think these people may just get the next program for free and not bother buying it....since they now know where to go for cracks.
- You elude to 'who wants to download 500 megs'....why would that be so unusual...some game DEMOS are 200 megs now
I'm sorry, but your complaints are crap.
1. Starforce doesn't "destroy" Alcohol 120% or NERO. Older versions of it would refuse to run the game unless you uninstalled Alcohol/Nero, but I have both installed with SH3.
2. The entire industry is based on installing software you don't give permission for. You're not asked to give permission to install codecs, uninstallers, patching utilities, registration utilities, etc.
3. Starforce itself released the utility to uninstall Starforce, so you're dead wrong... again.
4. In English, please?
5. Obviously publishers have a better idea than you do about this. Most people are unaffected by what few issues Starforce has. If it were anything but the case, you'd see a class action lawsuit a long time ago. Most people don't even know they had it installed.
Paranoia paranoia everybody's coming to get me,
Just say you never met me...
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It might have been something completely different, but my SH3 wouldn't install with Nero installed on my computer... And I bought the original DVD, so it's not like I was trying to install a cracked version of the game...
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Im not going to be drawn into some argument over the merits of starforce, I have become informed and only wish everyone else to be informed. Read up on Starforce, if you like the way SH3 developers are treating you, thats your business. I refuse to support it.
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I guess I'll have eMule it then. I was going to buy it before I saw this.
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I made the mistake of buying it / installing it. If it porks my machine it will be both the most expensive game I've ever had and the last UBI product that ever finds it way to my computer.
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Like I said, there is a way round it -
Install the game
Get the NODVD fix and install it
Get the Starforce removal/cleaner tool and run it.
You then have a game that works without needing the DVD in the drive and NO Starforce hidden drivers.
Funnily enough this was available the same day the game was released, lol.
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Based on what I have read, the NODVD patch/crack/etc is for verision 1.0. The last patch V1.1 does not work with the V1.0 NODVD. I expect a V1.1 NODVD patch to be released soon.
I probably won't get it though unless I can download it on my iMac. I refuse to visit any more warez sites because they are infested with nasty windows viruses/trojans/backdoors, etc. especially if you enter using good ole IE. I am not sure about Mozilla Firefox (which is all I use nowadays).
Maybe it's my unadventurous spirit, but I'll take Starforce over dealing with those warez types. Windows XP is much better than Win9x, but it's still windows. Maybe after 6 months I'll try the patch if I still have the game installed and if I find it on a FTP site or Usenet.
Regards,
Malta
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Another concern about Starfarce...
no 64-bit version yet... so no-run under Win64, ty...
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
I made the mistake of buying it / installing it. If it porks my machine it will be both the most expensive game I've ever had and the last UBI product that ever finds it way to my computer.
Yeah, get back to me next week when you're posting about how awesome SH3 is and how you never had an issue with Starforce.
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First I want to say I bought and paid for SH3.
Does anyone have a NODVD fix for patch 1.1?
I only ask because I would like to get rid of Starforce. The only NODVD fix I have found was for V1.0.
I guess I could uninstall / reinstall without the patch...
If you don't wish to post it on the board you can email it to me at
jg53 AT 4jg53.netprism DOT net
or juts visit my squad forum:
4./JG53 (http://4jg53.netprism.net/phpBB/index.php)
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Jwizzle if I knew there was this kind of risk I wouldn't have bought the game in the first place.
I don't need third party bs on my computer for a joke of a copy protection. They've never worked and they never will. I already started to regret installing the whole thing when the 'automatic driver update utilities' etc. started popping up. The whole thing has bs written all over it.
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Thanks for the heads up. One more piece of software to avoid.
Jwizzle, you affiliated with UBI or Starfarce? Just curious.
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Will rolling back to a system restore point work?
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Yoinks! Not touching this one with a 10 foot pole.
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Ok I have Starforce Protection 1.0 and Protection helper driver 2.0 on my system. How do I remove them?
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shouldnt this be in the oclub?
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Originally posted by Kegger26
Ok I have Starforce Protection 1.0 and Protection helper driver 2.0 on my system. How do I remove them?
The Starforce main site has a cleaner/removing tool on it.
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Runs fine here (With alcohoo & nero). No problemo.
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Ya know its funny when ever i Play BIA (Brothers In Arms) my system turns to sheeot afterward. It kills my wireless net connection and i have to reboot. is this STARFORCE?
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Originally posted by boxboy28
Ya know its funny when ever i Play BIA (Brothers In Arms) my system turns to sheeot afterward. It kills my wireless net connection and i have to reboot. is this STARFORCE?
No, probably BIA's shoddy PC coding. I get similar results with BIA, but other Starforce games I have no problems with.
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WOW! Im glad I read this! Thanks! I was just getting ready to buy SHIII.
Too bad seems like a great SIM.
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Originally posted by Swager
WOW! Im glad I read this! Thanks! I was just getting ready to buy SHIII.
Too bad seems like a great SIM.
Sounds like you're backing off.. why, theres no reason to back off.
Most of the stuff about Starforce is really exagerrated.
Of course it is a bit more annoying than say the Safedisc, but ultimately it is the same.
People talks lots of crap about it, like broken cd-drives etc., however with little logical conclusion you would figure out that if it'd be possible for Starforce, then there would be many other programs too, especially the malicious programs aka viruses.
(Some years ago the monitors didn't have a refresh lock and some malicious programs appeared which gave the monitor too high refresh signal -> poof. A prime example of what happens with the hardware vulnerabilities.)
So it is grossly exagerrated.
Many other anti-copy protections do also copy files on the computer which you can't remove simply by removing the software. Starforce just goes a little deeper, but it DOES offer a removal tool, unlike the rest.
I'm not any Starforce advocate or such, but I prefer to use common sense.
If you think you like a sub game, then go ahead and buy it.
Just keep in mind it is only available on DVD, a friend of mine didn't and is now yet another 20 bucks poorer :D
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It is not that grossly esxaggerated. For some, it may not have an impact. For others, it most certainly will.
For me, it is not worth the risk. Even the producers of Starfarce cannot make an assessment of the risk. That is a big red flag for me.
I would like a good sub sim, but I am going to pass on this one.
Look at it this way. People in the know are the minority of software purchasers. I am sure it no skin off UBI's nose if some people pass on this software due to Starfarce.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
I would like a good sub sim, but I am going to pass on this one.
I own two games with StarForce, SHIII and Superpower 2.
I have yet to see any problems with my DVDRW, or my Software related to it. Im not gonna try to persuade anybody on why they shoud buy it or not, But I will say, Its a great game. :D
Skuzzy or HTC should call StarForce and act like there interested and ask some serious questions, then maybe we could get some more info.
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I have no probs with SHIII and running Nero/dvd shrink etc...
However bought a legit copy of Superpower II a while ago and I could not get past the copy protection (refused to recognise the disc)...it's collected dust ever since...
Tronsky
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
It is not that grossly esxaggerated. For some, it may not have an impact. For others, it most certainly will.
I would like to hear more about the impacts, but so far I've mostly came across with the lies and finger pointing at Starforce when it hasn't been the real cultprit.
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Originally posted by GScholz
Prozac time.
http://www.firingsquad.com/features/starforce_interview/
"Abbie Sommer: We are more effective because it is harder for crackers to reverse engineer StarForce protected games.
We have a proven track record of games that have been on the market and still not cracked."
Software like Starforce are results of to many w***z'ed software,
no wonder, thanks to all who use illegal copys :)
If software like Starforce pays off for publishers, soon others will
use it too.
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SH III has been cracked allready so that much for that. Even with the crack I'm not going to support a software which installs stuff and changes settings in my computer without my knowledge. That kind of program is usually called a virus and is illegal.
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Originally posted by Grits
Big Brother is watching...
Lol dont say that. Im reading 1984 :lol
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Any 3rd party protection will be cracked sooner or later and then it'll be done just as easily as it was done previously.
Mora,
Good luck then.
It isn't just Starforce which does that, but many many other programs.
They might not stick in a new software device, but they sure might put in other stuff.
Besides legal wise, it is part of the program and the program which end user license agreement you have to agree prior to install.
Basically the problem with Starforce is that it is so visible and takes longer time to verify the disc than with the others.
Caughts people's attention much better than Safedisc, Securerom, custom protections..
Alot of the high end software has quite interesting copy protections, which some would rate intrusive just like the Starforce.
Works much better than Steam though, since you don't need to be connected to the internet for it work.
...and why do you people use the Windows or few of the other MS products?
It sends your hardware configuration to Microsoft, including unique device ID's.
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I never said that what they are doing is illegal. Some of the top end software you mentioned use a a licence plug which you install in a serial port. I wouldn't have any problems with that or something similar. An easy route for them would have been an online verification. About 99% of computer users have internet connection as well, so that wouldn't have hurt their sales nearly as much as this BS.
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Originally posted by mora
Some of the top end software you mentioned use a a licence plug which you install in a serial port.
I didn't exactly mean that kind of protections
I don't prefer online verification each time I start a game, since I don't want to be forced to have the internet working every time when playing the game.
The ISP's usually aren't 100% proof with 24/7/356 reliability.
Also the internet isn't always available where you go to, if you travel on holidays or so.
In my opinion Starforce's bad sides are grossly exagerrated over the others.
Reading the stuff along the way people sometimes makes it sound like an excuse to warez the game in question.
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I paid full price for SH3, my Sata isn't as fast as it used to be, maybe it's starforce, maybe its not, i don't care. If my system is going to get f____d because UBISOFT ASSUMES i'm a thief, therefore i'm not giving them more of my money.
Use of starforce just guaranteed them 0 cash from me, i'll download the stuff i would otherwise buy from now on.
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Originally posted by fd ski
my Sata isn't as fast as it used to be, maybe it's starforce, maybe its not
Use the Starforce cleaner program to determine íf it is.
It removes the Starforce files.
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Shouldn't have to.
Equivalent of what they are doing is like me going to McDonalds and finding out that BigMac i just had, had an ingridient that will make me violently sick if I ever choose to eat anywhere else.
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Originally posted by -tronski-
I have no probs with SHIII and running Nero/dvd shrink etc...
However bought a legit copy of Superpower II a while ago and I could not get past the copy protection (refused to recognise the disc)...it's collected dust ever since...
Tronsky
I did have a installation problem with SP2, but I checked the forums and deteremined that I had the wrong Disc In :o. SP2 Plays off Disc 1, When Installation is complete reinsert Disc 1, TA-DA!
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How to remove all StarForce components from your PC:
Sometimes the un-installation utility of the protected application does not uninstall all StarForce drivers. The following procedure will ensure that all StarForce related components are completely removed from your system.
Download the SFREMOVE tool as a ZIP archive.
Extract and store sfdrvrem.exe anywhere on your hard disk.
Run sfdrvrem.exe.
If the protected application requires a StarForce driver, this driver will be re-installed as soon as you launch the application again. For further help, please contact the helpdesk of the application publisher.
Notice the driver autoreinstalls? Seems like it doesn't remove itself fully no matter what.
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It gets worse:
Users
Drivers vulnerability issue clarification
The old version of StarForce drivers did indeed allow executing code using Administrator rights for its purposes. We would like to clarify some points. What we see here is that drivers may be accessed by any application. This application gets Administrator privileges and is not hampered by OS security as it would have been if being run with normal or low rights. This issue has happened before with some companies, and it was never a "critical" security matter (see http://computercops.biz/article2661.html for details).
It is well-known that the overwhelming majority of home users work under Administrator accounts all the time, thus this driver vulnerability does not affect them at all, as any application run will work with Administrator rights by default. This is significant only for business workstations working with common User rights. Going further we see that there are no complex StarForce protected games on business workstations, therefore this problem is valid only for office computers that have business applications protected with StarForce using the drivers (yet most of the time business applications are protected without drivers).
If you work in User-mode most of the time and wish to fix this vulnerability in StarForce drivers, you should do the following:
1) Run sfclean utility (http://www.star-force.com/index.phtml?category=200&type=5) to remove old drivers. (You may also use this utility in order to remove old StarForce drivers that are no longer needed)
2) Download and install the software patch that fixes this vulnerability from the software publisher. The publishers are informed of this issue and can create a patch.
P.S. StarForce would like to thank the hardworking team and their financial backers who have found this driver vulnerability. If it wasn't for you, we wouldn't be in business.
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Originally posted by Vulcan
Notice the driver autoreinstalls? Seems like it doesn't remove itself fully no matter what.
If you have applied the NODVD 'patch' they don't reinstall when you lauch the game.
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Originally posted by Vulcan
It gets worse:
.....
The old version of StarForce drivers did indeed allow executing code using Administrator rights for its purposes. We would like to clarify some points. What we see here is that drivers may be accessed by any application. This application gets Administrator privileges and is not hampered by OS security as it would have been if being run with normal or low rights......
In a word (or two) HOLY ***** CRAP!!!! And I thought it was bad before:eek:
BTW Vulcan whered you get that, Ifound a ref, but they seem to have hiddedn/deleted the actual archive at SF
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I had these drivers on my system (think they came from TOCA); ran the removal prog; and everything (including IL-2) continues to function perfectly.
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Originally posted by Vulcan
Notice the driver autoreinstalls? Seems like it doesn't remove itself fully no matter what.
It does remove it.
It's the game which "re-"installs it, but only when you run the game.
The cracked games doesn't "re-"install the drivers.
Seeker,
IL-2? It uses different kind of copy protection, so Starforce shouldn't have anything to do with it.
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Originally posted by Fishu
It does remove it.
It's the game which "re-"installs it, but only when you run the game.
The cracked games doesn't "re-"install the drivers.
Seeker,
IL-2? It uses different kind of copy protection, so Starforce shouldn't have anything to do with it.
True; but people were begining to wonder about Ubisoft games.
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Originally posted by Nefarious
I did have a installation problem with SP2, but I checked the forums and deteremined that I had the wrong Disc In :o. SP2 Plays off Disc 1, When Installation is complete reinsert Disc 1, TA-DA!
I'm sure I tried that...but I might give it another go...
It was extremely frustrating at the time...
Tronsky
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The point is that this kind of systems are a needless risk and an annoyance on the computer.
I could have downloaded SH3 way faster than I could order it through mail and live without the annoyance of inserting the dvd each time I want to play.
This means that the starforce system is totally nonfunctional in its purpose. Why is it there then?
Not to mention the hassle of swapping disks on each game / risk of destroying the game media itself.
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What's this "Just remove it." crap. I now have to now perform labour for the company I'm buying a product from in order for them to be protect from thieves, and so my computer can run the way I want it too after they've installed software on my computer I didn't know about?
**** that.
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Now we're already getting to the point which isn't just about Starforce, but about every copy protection on the market... try to keep that in mind and not just blame the starforce, when talking about generally common ways of copy protection.
btw. The SH3 manual gives the user a right for backup copy, which however won't work, thanks to Starforce :D
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I am just getting tired of applications being so invasive. I have a list of products I boycott due to it (Roxio, Print Shop...). I put these types of applications in the malware category.
They are no better than spyware/malware programs.
This continues to be a problem with the MS operating system. Any application can, without your knowledge, replace operating system DLL's with thier own libraries.
I could care less what the license says. Products which are intentionally invasive should be required to put a warning up before installation of what they are about to do and give the user a chance to abort before it happens. Burying it in a multi-lage license form is not acceptable. Of course, it covers them from the legal eagles, to a degree, but it doe snot make it any less invasive.
As a matter of fact, MS should just put a hook in the OS which would do this whenever a system DLL is about to be hooked or replaced.
MS will not do it as they would then have to disclose the things they do in the background, which you have no knowledge of and application developers would scream to high heaven if they had to actually disclose what they are doing to your system.
Fishu, I simply cannot, nor will not, take the chance with software like this. I do too much audio/video and development work to risk my system being altered beyond the normal expected parameters.
One day you will install something Fishu and it will go bonkers, and you will blame the application, without knowing for sure if this software (Starfarce) is causing the problem. And that is a truth. Can you, nor anyone else, gaurantee this software cannot or will not effect other applications?
Obviously, the answer is 'No'. And thus exactly why I will and must avoid it.
I have no desire to hack or cheat any company out thier due monies for thier work. I have purchased every piece of software I have ever used. I will continue to do so. While I would like a good sub simulator, I will continue to wait for another one to come along.
Most people are ignorant to the potential problems software like this could cause and will buy it unknowingly, so the few who are concerned about this will not have much of an impact on thier sales.
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Vulcan I don't understand your post.
Why a driver would claim administrative privileges when usually a driver is running at ring 0 (at least part of the driver).
It has do sense.
Plus the probleme is not the Starforce product but more the incredible "funky" security design choosen by Microsoft.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
This continues to be a problem with the MS operating system. Any application can, without your knowledge, replace operating system DLL's with thier own libraries.
Well I agree with you concerning this but don't forget that for 99.9% of the people a dll is just a file that look funny when opened by "MSWord" :D
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btw. The SH3 manual gives the user a right for backup copy, which however won't work, thanks to Starforce
None of these so-called 'software protection' programs do what they claim they do. SH3 can be downloaded from many sources and played without Starforce.
It is ridiculous to assume that Starforce is protecting SH3 from piracy. Any software developer can't be so stupid to assume that their work product will be safe from piracy. As such why such invasive programs such as Starforce? It clearly doesn't do what designed to do. SH3 is ready to download right now, any one can still get it for free.
People my be paranoid but if all of us can figure out how worthless 'protection software' is then why such an invasive solution like Starforce?
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Originally posted by straffo
Vulcan I don't understand your post.
Why a driver would claim administrative privileges when usually a driver is running at ring 0 (at least part of the driver).
It has do sense.
Plus the probleme is not the Starforce product but more the incredible "funky" security design choosen by Microsoft.
Errrmmm no idea, ask Star-force, its quoted verbatim for their FAQ.
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SHIII crashed frequently to the desktop; after using Starforce Remover and installing No-DVD patch it has been stable so far. No idea if those are related or just coincidence.
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Originally posted by Staga
SHIII crashed frequently to the desktop; after using Starforce Remover and installing No-DVD patch it has been stable so far. No idea if those are related or just coincidence.
I've had only two or three CTD's
I hear there are some things which causes CTD, like using the auto-crew function.
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I havnt had one CTD yet, regular install, with Starfarce. And I'm running the game on a below average machine.
Heres my take,
Starforce, Bad.
Silent Hunter III, Good.
Will I buy Silent Hunter IV or addons for III, Yes.
Even if it has Starforce?, Yes.
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VULCAN
can you point me to thi sin a FAW, I cant locate it
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Sonofa*****. The X2:The Threat game that came with my 6600 GT installs starforce. Considering all the shady bull**** I have to go through to get the game running (Need the UK patch for an OEM copy, and having to register at the egosoft site to DL a manual), and their insanely poor force feedback support, I think I'll just delete it.
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One thing about SH3, it takes forever to load, it puts even WWIIOL to shame.
Running one 2500 AMD with 2 x 73mb SATA drives in RAID 1 ( half the file one drive, half the other, therefore twice the speed ), i'm pretty sure starforce screwed up my sata performance at this point..
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Raid1 is mirroring - no performance benefit but increased reliability.
Raid0 striping improves read/writes about 30%.
But long load times have always been an issue with ubisoft games. IL2 isn't any different on that area.
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Originally posted by Engine
Sonofa*****. The X2:The Threat game that came with my 6600 GT installs starforce.
Have you played SH3, just interested in the performance with your setup with the GF6600GT
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Skuzzy, vewy simple:
One system for gaming
Another system for working
Voila! :D
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Fraid not, Fishu. I wouldn't count on it anyhow, since I'm using a much-patched up Windows that's been with me for years. Regsitry's probably bloated solid, but I fear formatting with so many old programs I no longer have the cd key to. :)
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Originally posted by Engine
Fraid not, Fishu. I wouldn't count on it anyhow, since I'm using a much-patched up Windows that's been with me for years. Regsitry's probably bloated solid, but I fear formatting with so many old programs I no longer have the cd key to. :)
Thats why I'm intrested in it ;)
My Windows install originally dates back to somewhere 1998-1999, which has been then upgraded from one version to another and currently is XP SP1.
Bought a 6600GT over a week ago and wondered if the performance is really up to the normal levels.
Doesn't seem too bad 3D mark wise, with some ~3400 points, but theres a big load of others with +5000 points. Then again theres also _alot_ in the 3000-3600 range.
Must be some sort of tweaked systems and I must be having quite a popular setup CPU + GFX wise.
Plus I don't know what the SLI cards are.
The technology news have drove past me.
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3DMark scores have not been correlating with real game benchmarks. That means if you're interested in gaming instead of benchmarking, 3DMark has little value to you.
Your system might be doing crap scores in 3DMark but run latest games better than a system that scores high in 3Dmark.
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
3DMark scores have not been correlating with real game benchmarks. That means if you're interested in gaming instead of benchmarking, 3DMark has little value to you.
Your system might be doing crap scores in 3DMark but run latest games better than a system that scores high in 3Dmark.
I use 3D mark to test the system performance, to see if theres any obvious shortfalls.
Has couple of times helped me greatly to find an issue.
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Fishu, I think I got around 3300 on 3DMark 2005. Do you have Half-Life2? I'm at work now, but can post my fps results from the stress test sometime, if you have it.
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Originally posted by Engine
Fishu, I think I got around 3300 on 3DMark 2005. Do you have Half-Life2? I'm at work now, but can post my fps results from the stress test sometime, if you have it.
No I don't have HL2.
Btw. whats your CPU?
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3200+ Winchester @ 2GHz, on a K8N Neo2 Platinum (nforce3 ultra) mb. Still old RAM and HDs though, hehe
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Originally posted by Engine
3200+ Winchester @ 2GHz, on a K8N Neo2 Platinum (nforce3 ultra) mb. Still old RAM and HDs though, hehe
Ah.. We got almost the same setup.
Except I got a K8N Neo Platinum with 754 socket and newcastle 3000+
Can't say the same of RAM and HDs though.
Previous setup had 266mhz and 333mhz chips and today I bought Maxtor 160GB SATA drive.
40+30GB drivers are getting filled up.
Plus I can finally format the 40 GB one and make it into one partition instead of 4. Could've done it before also, but it'd been quite a hassle to fix the windows registry for each program and game.
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Let's format together. We can use each other as emotional support and say goodbye to our original Tie Fighter 3.5 floppy save games. :)
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My system scored 1318 in 3dmark05, yet I can play Doom3, SH3 and AAO easily with this laptop.
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Originally posted by ALF
VULCAN
can you point me to thi sin a FAW, I cant locate it
Jezuz am I the only one who can use google around here?
http://www.star-force.com/protection.phtml?c=91&id=319
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Originally posted by Engine
Let's format together. We can use each other as emotional support and say goodbye to our original Tie Fighter 3.5 floppy save games. :)
If I find out how to assign the new hard drive as the C: drive and have the current windows on it...
I guess I have to make a temporary windows install on D: and use it to swap the letters and then fuxor the boot sector on the new HD.
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Welllll, you can always install windows fresh to your new drive. That's what I did, have an OLDWindows directory somewhere on G:, hehehe
You shouldn't have problems making the new drive C: and keeping your current windows install on E: or something. If I were really helpful I'd find a link for you, but I'm at the girlfriend's house and short on time, sorry. :)
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Originally posted by Engine
Welllll, you can always install windows fresh to your new drive. That's what I did, have an OLDWindows directory somewhere on G:, hehehe
You shouldn't have problems making the new drive C: and keeping your current windows install on E: or something. If I were really helpful I'd find a link for you, but I'm at the girlfriend's house and short on time, sorry. :)
I just hate messing with all the programs which would need to be re-installed :o
Can only wonder why it wasn't made easier to move previously installed software into a fresh windows install... can't be that hard to make the program to re-create the registry, if it can't find it.
I don't know how to assign C: to the SATA drive outside of Windows and it of course doesn't let you to change its boot drive letter.
So I guess I'll install windows to D: and use it to swap the letters and setup the boot sector.
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Originally posted by Vulcan
Jezuz am I the only one who can use google around here?
http://www.star-force.com/protection.phtml?c=91&id=319
Thanks....I goodgled the living crap outa it...and while the 'preview' looked right, it always defaulted to a main page dead end.
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I've been picking at this open sore (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=400102&f=2881085392&m=8631081492). It's a shame. I really wanted this sim... but not in its present state. No way.
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Originally posted by Sandman
I've been picking at this open sore (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/ubb.x?a=frm&s=400102&f=857101043). It's a shame. I really wanted this sim... but not in its present state. No way.
What do you mean? the link leads to the general forum.
Some thread I guess?
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Originally posted by Sandman
I've been picking at this open sore (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/ubb.x?a=frm&s=400102&f=857101043). It's a shame. I really wanted this sim... but not in its present state. No way.
I have had no problem at all with this game right out of the box. I un-installed and re-installed after I have updated to patch 1.1. I re-installed it out the box and ran the Starforce removal utility. I then grabbed the No-DVD fix and am Starforce free.
I haven't updated to patch 1.2 . I have yet to find a No-DVD fix for 1.1 or 1.2 so I can't comment on the impact of 1.2 but 1.1 was fine except for Starforce.
I think its one of the best releases in terms of bugs and issues of any game I have played in a long time.
I don't read the UBI forums because they are filled with 12 year olds complaining about stupid stuff like the lack of sea life (no fish etc...).
If you base any game purchase based on the opinions on the UBI forums you will miss a lot of them.
Try here:
Subsim Forums (http://subsim.com/phpBB/index.php?c=8)
or here
SimHQ SH3 forum (http://www.simhq.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=129;DaysPrune=20)
I owned both SH and SH2. After SH2 I swore I wouldn't buy another SH game. A few friends got it and said it was well done. I picked it up and have enjoyed it immensely.
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Originally posted by Fishu
What do you mean? the link leads to the general forum.
Some thread I guess?
Doh... Link (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=400102&f=2881085392&m=8631081492)
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Originally posted by Wotan
I don't read the UBI forums because they are filled with 12 year olds complaining about stupid stuff like the lack of sea life (no fish etc...).
I'm sure the game is great... it's the Starforce stuff I'm worried about. At this point, I'd rather not risk it.
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Originally posted by Fishu
If I find out how to assign the new hard drive as the C: drive and have the current windows on it...
I guess I have to make a temporary windows install on D: and use it to swap the letters and then fuxor the boot sector on the new HD.
Try using Norton Ghost or other disk-cloning utility. It's much easier and always works. The easiest way to copy your system disk to a new HDD.
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Sandman,
Honestly, the risks are overrated. It's just like the people in the game forums.. 12 y/o kids whining about everything from between the sea and the 7th heaven.
It won't break your hardware and veeeery unlikely affects your system.
Theres also a cleaner program, so if it somehow affects the software.
I'd say Norton Systemworks affects your system more .... argh. *goes back to fight against the norton*
Originally posted by Boroda
Try using Norton Ghost or other disk-cloning utility. It's much easier and always works. The easiest way to copy your system disk to a new HDD.
Copying files is not really the problem :I
Changing H: to C: is the problem (H: = new SATA, C: = old IDE drive)
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Originally posted by Fishu
Copying files is not really the problem :I
Changing H: to C: is the problem (H: = new SATA, C: = old IDE drive)
Ok, you attach a new drive, boot from a CD with a Norton Ghost, copy old drive onto new, then adjust a boot sequence in BIOS setup - and that's all. Before cloning your system - in Device Manager change your IDE driver to "Standard IDE controller" to avoid problems with driver when system will boot up from SATA for the first time.
If you need a good "emergency" bootable CD - try to search for a "Hiren's boot CD" on the Net, it has almost everything you need to repair/check/clone your system.
Edit: Ghost fits on a 1.44 floppy with Win98 system files. If you need a Ghost executable - contact me on ICQ 4627619 or mail tengrie [at] gmail [dot] com