Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: SunTracker on March 31, 2005, 05:24:09 PM
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U.S. soldier convicted in Iraqi killing
Mar 31, 2005 - WIESBADEN, Germany (AP) -- A military court on Thursday found a U.S. Army tank company commander guilty of charges related to the shooting death of a wounded Iraqi last year.
Capt. Rogelio "Roger" Maynulet stood at attention as Lt. Col. Laurence Mixon, the head of the six-member panel, read the verdict.
The court was to reconvene later Thursday to consider Maynulet's sentence. The charge -- assault with intent to commit voluntary manslaughter -- carries a maximum of 10 years in prison.
Prosecutors had sought a conviction on a more serious charge of assault with intent to commit murder that carried a 20-year maximum.
Maynulet, 30, maintained that the man was gravely wounded and he shot him to end his suffering.
Maynulet's 1st Armored Division tank company had been on patrol near Kufa, south of Baghdad, when it was alerted to a car thought to be carrying a driver for radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr and another militiaman loyal to the Shiite cleric, who led uprisings against American-led forces in Iraq last year.
They chased the vehicle and fired at it, wounding both the passenger, who fled and was later apprehended, and the driver. The killing was filmed by a U.S. drone surveillance aircraft.
And the Army wonders why recruitment is down...
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Geez an army that is not allowed to kill the enemy.:rofl
We are becoming the butt of jokes all over the world.
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if you read some of the testimony the capt testified that his medic said the guy was "gone" and there was nothing anyone could do.
The Capt. took it apon himself to kill the guy to keep him from suffering any further.
I think based on the testimony that the Capt gave he did something that was based on compassion vrs. malice. Of course this is against the rules but either way I hope this guy doesnt get hammered to badly in sentencing.
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Actually you should be proud; guy committed a manslaughter and couldn't get away from it without punishment.
Looks like your juridical system still works; too bad nobody filmed OJ's doings.
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if the man was minutes away from dying anyway is it manslaughter? Dunno.. seems like a tough call...
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So if I see someone dying it's OK to for me to put a bullet into his brains?
Okay.
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Originally posted by Staga
Actually you should be proud; guy committed a manslaughter and couldn't get away from it without punishment.
Looks like your juridical system still works; too bad nobody filmed OJ's doings.
Mercy killings are a fact in war. Is it wrong to finish off a man so badly wounded he has no chance of survival? Or is it merciful to end his suffering?
I wouldnt want to suffer one minute longer than I had to.
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Figures, everything the US Army does is wrong according to everyone.
Whats next, news on how we use rubber bullets against the enemy leaving horrible bruises or pepper spray that gives someone a heart attack?
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whats worse. Going through the worst pain youve ever felt, knowing your gonna die, and there isnt watermelon you can do to stop it, because your to badly wounded.
OR
Someone seeing the condition your in and ending your suffering, so you can die quickly and painlessly.
personally im pretty sure if i was an american and an Iraqi wouned me that bad, id hope he be kind enough to put me out.
From what ive read and heard on this story, seems the man was for sure going to die and was in alot of pain. I think the man did the right thing.
although had it been me, knowing i prob would go to jail for putting the man out, i woulda let the bastage suffer neway.
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his medic said the guy was "gone"
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Was the medic a professional MD or just regular Joe with few dozen medical classes?
Was this medic in court too as witness?
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Originally posted by Staga
So if I see someone dying it's OK to for me to put a bullet into his brains?
Okay.
That depends. In this case, from what I've read, you could actually see the guys brains. He was weezing his last breaths and the medical personell on seen said he had no chance.
During the trial there was even speculation that the guy was allready dead. From his testimony the Capt made his decision based on compassion, not malice.
The local Iraqi officials that his guy worked with testified that he was a good soldier and actually cared what happend in Iraq.
The dead guy's family testified that it was no secret that he was working for the insurgency.
Again the Army does not allow mercy killings so this trial is correct. It's too bad it had to happen to what sounds like a good officer.
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Medic at court martial admits lying
By Carlos Sadovi
Tribune staff reporter
Published March 29, 2005, 1:35 PM CST
WIESBADEN, Germany -- An Army medic who advised his commanding officer that an Iraqi man was mortally wounded last year—leading the officer to allegedly shoot the man as a mercy killing—admitted today that he did not treat the Iraqi because he panicked at the sight of his wounds.
Sgt. Thomas Cassady, who continued his testimony on the second day of a court-martial hearing for Capt. Roger Maynulet of Chicago, also admitted lying at least 27 times to superior officers and perjuring himself in a previous military court hearing to protect Maynulet.
"I didn't think the case would go this far," Cassady said before admitting he froze and failed to treat the injured man. "I was out of it. I spazzed out."
Cassady, 30, also admitted to the six-member jury of ranking Army officers that he had received immunity from prosecution in exchange for his testimony. He could have faced a military prison sentence had he been tried and convicted of perjury.
A medic for six years, Cassady served under Maynulet's command in Iraq. The two men were with a group of soldiers who chased down and fired on a sedan in Kufa, a town south of Baghdad on May 21, 2004. The car crashed in a residential area.
The driver of the car, Karim Hassan Abed Ali al-Haleji, was wounded. Maynulet shot al-Haleji as he lay on the ground in a mercy killing after Cassady told him the Iraqi would not survive, Maynulet's lawyers contend.
An Army unmanned aerial vehicle flying overhead caught the action on video. The recording has been played for the jury during the last two days of the court-martial.
Prosecutors have alleged Maynulet broke military law forbidding the killing of people outside of combat, even for mercy killings.
Maynulet is charged with assault with intent to murder. He faces 20 years in military prison if convicted. The captain originally had been charged with murder, but the charges were reduced after an Article 32 hearing—the military equivalent of a grand jury hearing—that concluded in December.
Cassady admitted lying to the court in that hearing when he testified under oath that the wounded Iraqi sustained two gunshot wounds to his head while he was being chased.
Under prompting from Maynulet's lawyers, Cassady said Maynulet told him to medically treat the man as the captain and other soldiers scrambled into nearby homes and courtyards looking for insurgents who had fled from the car.
Throwing his head back, Cassady demonstrated from the stand how the man's breathing resembled a loud snore. The medic admitted he spent "roughly a minute" before making his determination the man would not survive more than 20 minutes.
Cassady, who had served four years with the Marine Corps before enlisting in the Army, said the Iraqi man was the first wounded person he had treated, and he froze.
After prompting from Capt. Will Helixon, Maynulet's chief defense lawyer, Cassady admitted his lies stemmed from his guilt at not treating the man and for causing the chain of events that led to the man's death.
Helixon pointed out that Cassady could have faced at least one year in prison for not treating a wounded man and more years for the other crimes.
"Sgt. Cassady, you risked all of this because you knew the reason Capt. Maynulet acted was based on your failure to do your job," Helixon said. "Capt. Maynulet trusted you as the senior line medic … There's no reason why he shouldn't have 100 percent faith in you."
"Yes sir," Cassady said. "I was spazzed out."
But before resting the prosecution's case, Capt. Dan Sennott, the lead prosecutor, said that as the commanding officer in the mission, responsibility for its outcome fell on Maynulet's shoulders.
Before being deployed to Iraq, soldiers are trained in proper military procedure and provided with rules of engagement cards they are required to carry. Among other things, the rules forbid soldiers from killing to ease suffering, said Sgt. Robert Braudis, who also was on the mission.
While witnesses including Cassady said the car never fired at Maynulet's Humvee, Maynulet's lawyers contend that they were on a classified mission to stop a "high-valued target."
Sources have told the Tribune that Maynulet was to stop a car supposedly carrying rebel cleric Moqtada Sadr and another loyalist. Sadr was responsible for insurgent activity in the area at the time. During the trial, al-Haleji was called a paramilitary insurgent, a claim the man's family has denied in the past.
As the defense began its case today, it put on six officers and even the defendant's former elementary school principal from Queen of All Saints School, where he attended classes in the Sauganash neighborhood on Chicago's Northwest Side. The witnesses praised Maynulet's abilities and character.
As part of a court martial, the jury places considerable weight on a soldier's overall conduct and measure as a person, an Army spokesman said.
Witnesses said Maynulet was a top-notch military officer who was cool under pressure and who they would follow back into combat.
The defense also submitted written testimony from two men who had worked with Maynulet. Saudi Al Airaqchi Muhammed and Maj. Yehay Haider of the Iraqi Civil Defense Corp. both praised Maynulet's 15-month stint in Iraq before the shooting ended his stay.
"He made it easier to work with the American people," Helixon said as he read Haider's testimony.
Muhammed credited Maynulet with helping him set up local neighborhood councils and local elections to fill those posts.
"He treated the Iraqi people as if he were an Iraqi, with great compassion. You would see Capt. Maynulet patrolling day and night, protecting the Iraqi people," Helixon said as he read Muhammed's words.
Col. Bradley May, who served as Maynulet's senior supervisor and who is being assigned to the Joint Chief of Staffs in April, called the defendant one of his top three officers out of the more than 40 under his command.
In written testimony, May told the jury that while he did not approve of violating military law, the officers sitting in judgment should consider all the evidence.
"Look at all the facts, because there may be some that makes it not as easy to determine as we would all like," Helixon said, reading May's testimony.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-050329maynulet,1,108319.story?coll=chi-news-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true
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Originally posted by Staga
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Was the medic a professional MD or just regular Joe with few dozen medical classes?
Was this medic in court too as witness?
I don't know what the medic's qualifications are but they arent much different the the paramedics in civilian world. They are trained to treat battle field injurys and preserve life...friend or foe.
From what I read the medic and two neuro surgeons testified in the trial.
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Originally posted by Staga
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Was the medic a professional MD or just regular Joe with few dozen medical classes?
Was this medic in court too as witness?
Army medic's are highly trained.
In fact last I heard army medics can do more in the field than most paramedics.
Oh and BTW this is really going to boost enlistment ain't it LOL.
I mean who in there right minds would want to join up with the potential of being arrested and imprisoned for killing the enemy?
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Really though...should our medic have wasted his time with the enemy in the first place? They aren't actual "Doctors" so there is no oath to adhere to. And I don't like the idea of medical supplies that my tax money paid for being used on the enemy/insurgents either. Our troops don't get that kind of treatment from our enemies.
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Wombatt; As a 5n1p3r You should know the difference between shooting someone in combat or killing a wounded POW.
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After prompting from Capt. Will Helixon, Maynulet's chief defense lawyer, Cassady admitted his lies stemmed from his guilt at not treating the man and for causing the chain of events that led to the man's death.
To me....I see this as just a bad deal all the way around. Both here made HUGE mistakes and the officer gets fried for it.
I still don't think that capt. acted in malice but that's irellivent. Reguardless the army is losing what sounds like a good Officer.
and the medic get's imunity from 27 counts of art. 107 for his testimony
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Originally posted by Staga
Wombatt; As a 5n1p3r You should know the difference between shooting someone in combat or killing a wounded POW.
LOL look how can you expect a man to make the determination
on weather to fire again.
It just seems silly to me that your trained to kill and then put in place to do just that.
And just because you did not get him with the first shots you can't finnish him off?
I really doubt the the insurgents are playing by these rules.
This i am afraid is a serious kick in da nutt's for morale.
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Bottom line is that officer, even if he sounds like a decent man, committed a crime even if the intention was good.
His sentence already dropped from 20y to 10y; don't know how the parole works in US Army or in USA.
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Ever since Vietnam the Bleeding- heart liberals have force some really Ghey rules of engagements on us in the military..one being once a person is no longer perceived as a threat..you don't shoot them anymore...with that in mind..A hostile can make a run at you..as soon as he turns around to leave..you cannot fire anymore..so he gets out of range..regroups and attacks again...great rule if you are the enemy...sux for us.
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Originally posted by ASTAC
Ever since Vietnam the Bleed heart liberals have force some really Ghey rules of engagements on us in the military..one being once a person is no longer perceived as a threat..you don't shoot them anymore...with that in mind..A hostile can make a run at you..as soon as he turns around to leave..you cannot fire anymore..so he gets out of range..regroups and attacks again...great rule if you are the enemy...sux for us.
Or fires on you then imediatly surrenders after killing a bunch of your men.
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Political correctness as no place on the battle field.
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Originally posted by wombatt
Political correctness as no place on the battle field.
Neither do most of our "Rukes"
It's like us saying "I'll fight you with one hand tied behind my back"
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Originally posted by Staga
So if I see someone dying it's OK to for me to put a bullet into his brains?
Okay.
should have just said he was in a coma and starved him to death.
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Originally posted by Krusher
should have just said he was in a coma and starved him to death.
Watch that...See the thread about the pope..I said something along the same lines..hate to see someone else get in trouble.
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Originally posted by GScholz
It would be wrong to punish this man for being humane. His medic on the other hand...
Never thaught I would say this but here goes:
I couldnt agree with you more.
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Originally posted by GScholz
It would be wrong to punish this man for being humane. His medic on the other hand...
geez.....I agree too! :D
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Or fires on you then imediatly surrenders after killing a bunch of your men.
The Germans during WW2 regularly fired all their ammunition, and once exhausted surrender to the allied soldiers they were shooting at on the western front...not exactly a new tactic..
Originally posted by GScholz
It would be wrong to punish this man for being humane. His medic on the other hand...
Either way its just a sad case all round, for both soldier and victim...
Tronsky
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Unfortunate that they have to dump this on the commander. Medic really had a brain fart on this one.
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Before being deployed to Iraq, soldiers are trained in proper military procedure and provided with rules of engagement cards they are required to carry. Among other things, the rules forbid soldiers from killing to ease suffering, said Sgt. Robert Braudis, who also was on the mission.
If that's true. Done, guilty, cya.
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Done, guilty, cya? Not a nice way to treat an American soldier who was just trying to spare an Iraqi a few moments of agonizing pain. If President Nixon spared Lt. Calley, I'm sure a few letters to President Bush would commute the sentence of this guy.
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Have to agree with Sun, If what I'm reading is true I can't fault the guy.
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looks like they dismissed him from the Army but no jail time.
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Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
looks like they dismissed him from the Army but no jail time.
I was overjoyed when I heard that on the radio....no jail time deserved..no jail time awarded(since punishment in the military is an "award")
Now he can make TV appearances and write a book about it and make millions..good for him!