Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Simaril on April 03, 2005, 03:14:20 PM
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Question for HT:
When in horizontal flight, AH2 realistically models the vertical drop projectiles experience due to gravity.
When diving on a target, there should be less bullet "downward" drift from the gunsight pipper position, and a small increase in kinetic energy and destructive power. Likewise, when climbing bullets shoudl do less damage and fall farther from teh targeted point.
Are these effects also modelled?
Thanks
Simaril
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Yes they are modeled
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:aok
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Actually, bullets shoot "flatter" trajectories when fired upwards also. If you sight a rifle in at 200 yds, and fire at an angle downwards, OR upwards, the bullet hits higher than expected. Basically, gravity only effects the trajectory across the distance traveled horizontally, so a 200 yd shot at a severe angle, whether up or down, will hit higher than the point-of-aim, because the bullet traveled less than 200 yds horizontally. I agree that a bullet fired upwards will lose velocity faster than one fired downwards, and that the upward-fired bullet will EVENTUALLY travel a highly arched path. However, this won't really happen for quite awhile, likely further than would matter in AH. I've never checked into long-range trajectories, but would guess it would take upwards of a thousand yards to see a noticable difference. Remember that even a bullet from a deer rifle like a .270 or 30-06 can travel 6-7 miles distance if fired upwards at the correct angle. It's not likely it would lose so much velocity to see an appreciable arch in AH ranges, unless fired + or - 30 degrees from horizontal.
The idea that bullets will hit low if fired upwards, and high if fired downwards, is a common mis-conception. This is easily proven by shooting at severe angles up or downhill, or even by shooting an arrow downwards from a treestand. If you live in town, go throw a baseball upwards and you will see the same thing. Anyone who has hunted in the mountains, or from a treestand can tell you how important it is to aim LOW for angled shots, regardless if up or down
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Mntman, only true after the firing angle crosses the 45 degree line. With trajectories less than 45 degrees above horizontal, the energy used to climb (vertical vector) causes less horizontal motion per unit time. Thus, gravity's constant force has longer time to work per horizontal distance travelled, resulting in MORE vertical drop from the pipper.
Above 45 degrees, the same effect occurs -- but gravity now acts to slow the projectile velocity more than to cause downward drift, so the net effect is to more impact point closer to the pipper but with significantly less energy and destructive power.
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That is not reflected in all the ballistics articles I've read, nor by my experience's off a bench rest. The gravity has maximum effect on a bullet fired horizontally, and least effect on a bullet fired vertically. A bullet fired absolutely verticle, with no influence from wind, leaving out the slight left/right drift caused by the rifling's spin, flies straight up or down. Maximum force from gravity is at horizontal. A bullet fired horizontally falls at the same speed as a bullet dropped at the same time. Just think of the curve chart you'd draw with your theory, with the magical change at 45 degrees. Firing the bullet at a simple fraction of a degree off verticle causes less horizontal motion per unit time. The horizontal motion gets steadily less as the angle off horizontal increases, hence a steady change in trajectory. I won't argue that the trajectory above horizontal would exactly match the trajectory below horizontal, but I will argue that the bullets arc is greatest at horizontal, least at verticle, with a rather smooth transition between.
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Simaril: Nothing magical happens at 45 degs, deflection off the sight line simply varies with the cos of the angle to the ground.
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Not exactly related, but similar...
What about external ordnance such as bombs. It seems there isn't too much effect on bombs when the aircraft is maneuvering, or goes inverted, etc. Were the hard-points able to withstand the type of abuse we see in AH, or would bombs be torn away from their mounts (or tear away the mounts themselves) if the aircraft were to turn in a steep bank, or roll in evasive type maneuvers?
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So which end is the shootie end???
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Originally posted by hitech
Simaril: Nothing magical happens at 45 degs, deflection off the sight line simply varies with the cos of the angle to the ground.
Yeah, I know. As soon as I got up this morning I knew I'd messed that up, but didnt ahve time to relog or edit. 45 degrees is the angle that gives maximum range, which is where I probably got the number.
Once I realized I screwed it up, I knew I could sit down and figure out the angle at which the deflecting force of gravity caused the impact poin tto start moving closer to pipper, but to be honest ...... I also knew I didnt really enough to do the work....
Simaril
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Originally posted by Midnight
Not exactly related, but similar...
What about external ordnance such as bombs. It seems there isn't too much effect on bombs when the aircraft is maneuvering, or goes inverted, etc. Were the hard-points able to withstand the type of abuse we see in AH, or would bombs be torn away from their mounts (or tear away the mounts themselves) if the aircraft were to turn in a steep bank, or roll in evasive type maneuvers?
It happened, but I'm not sure it could be modelled because I'm not sure anyone ever measured the G forces required on vbarious planes with various ordinance. It woudl be guesswork, and it wouldnt add much to gameplay except something else to whine about.
In fact, some planes (I think ? the 190s?) would snap their gear retainers if yanked too hard, causing the gear to stay down until landing...