Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: SunTracker on April 05, 2005, 08:57:53 PM
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(http://home.insightbb.com/~k4emq/Heat.jpg)
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Any questions? Didn't think so!
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Check out the kill markings on this T-26
(http://home.insightbb.com/~k4emq/Dave2.jpg)
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One more pic. The U.S. had some pretty impressive ground vehicles by the end of World War II. For scale, note the kid lying underneath the T28.
(http://home.insightbb.com/~k4emq/T28.jpg)
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What is that thing.:confused:
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Sun is that Ft. Knox and is that white building behind the T28 where they have the sims? It's been too many years for me to remember :)
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(http://www.kolumbus.fi/staga/museum/images/KV1_hit.jpg)
http://www.kolumbus.fi/staga/museum/index.htm
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T-26 and T-28? Wouldn't that be M-26 and M-28?
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Projects were marked as "T's" and production models as "M's'".
T28 (later T95 Gun Motor Carriage 105mm) never came to production.
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Ah cc. Thanks.
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T-28 might have been a monster on the battlefield, had it seen production.
Read an article that said it was so heavy that the outrigger treads had to be fitted to support it's weight, and fitting those made it too wide to fit across many of the bridges in Europe.
Can you imagine what it would've looked like to see four or five of those behemoths crawling across a meadow towards you? The business end of those cannon would have looked like battleship cannon when they were pointed at you in anger.........
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T-28 had removable outer treads to cross bridges. The T-28 was designed to bust through heavy fortifications like the Sigfreid Line. Its the heaviest tank the U.S. has built so far.
I think two or three T-28s were built.
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Originally posted by SunTracker
(http://home.insightbb.com/~k4emq/Heat.jpg)
Wow, that HE round really didn't do that much damage
and DANG that heat round is awsome! They used it against infantry didn't they?
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HEAT = High Explosive Anti Tank but at least Germans used it as "multi purpose" ammo due to its HE-filling and fragmentation.
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Originally posted by zorstorer
Sun is that Ft. Knox and is that white building behind the T28 where they have the sims? It's been too many years for me to remember :)
Mec, that is fort knox, but that's the Patton Museum in the background.
shubie
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Rog-O Shubie, didn't get to see much of the base while we trained there. I hear the next gen of sims are quite nice.
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Up until several years ago there were several types of ammunition for US tanks maingun(105mm).
They were:
Sabot
Heat
HEP
Beehive
Sabot, High velocity solid projectile
Heat, A shaped charge, the large protrusion at the nose is both fuse and the tool used to detonate the charge the proper distance from the armor for maximum penetration.
HEP, High explosive plastic, basicaly a bunker or pilbox killing device. It could take out an armored vehicle by exploding on the outside and causing spalling, fragments of armor on the inside of the vehicle fly off the side of the armor opposite the explosion and zing around the inside of the vehicle until they hit something.
Beehive, A timed explosive round filled with hundreds of nails with fins on them. It turned the gun into a giant shotgun. The round would explode yards before it got to the enemy troops and fragment making an expanding cone of small darts. Very nasty.
HEP and Beehive were removed from the inventory. Heat could do the same job as hep with a flatter trajectory. Beehive was removed without explanation. It did have a problem with the timer as it took time to set it before firing. That made it less effective for rapid use.
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Hey Mav
With all the city fighting the US troops are doing, have you heard if they are making a canister round for the current 120MM gun in the M1?
Didnt the old 90MM have this round? Like a big shotgun shell, no timers or anything cause the round brakes up right at the muzzle?
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Originally posted by Maverick
Up until several years ago there were several types of ammunition for US tanks maingun(105mm).
They were:
Sabot
Heat
HEP
Beehive
Sabot, High velocity solid projectile
Heat, A shaped charge, the large protrusion at the nose is both fuse and the tool used to detonate the charge the proper distance from the armor for maximum penetration.
HEP, High explosive plastic, basicaly a bunker or pilbox killing device. It could take out an armored vehicle by exploding on the outside and causing spalling, fragments of armor on the inside of the vehicle fly off the side of the armor opposite the explosion and zing around the inside of the vehicle until they hit something.
Beehive, A timed explosive round filled with hundreds of nails with fins on them. It turned the gun into a giant shotgun. The round would explode yards before it got to the enemy troops and fragment making an expanding cone of small darts. Very nasty.
HEP and Beehive were removed from the inventory. Heat could do the same job as hep with a flatter trajectory. Beehive was removed without explanation. It did have a problem with the timer as it took time to set it before firing. That made it less effective for rapid use.
What happened to the STAFF top-attack round?
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GTO,
I haven't heard of any more canister rounds. While they sound kinda neat there is too much risk to friendly troops in the vicinity. ANYONE in front would be a frag stat. and that isn't good when you count on the crunchies to keep your back clean. ;)
Gscholz,
Are you referring to the anti tank missle that flies over the turret and detonates a shaped charge at a downward angle? That isn't a part of the US tank gun inventory if so.
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From what I remember it was a top attack guided round. Also for use vs helos.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/m943.htm
Guess it never made it past the X stage.
As for the canister round, also in the X stage.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/m1028.htm
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We should really make this a sticky.
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you guys are silly dont you know that all you need is a 50 bmg to go tiger hunting? :O oh sorry I will return to my previous state of being dormant.
nice illistrations thanks.
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Originally posted by frank3
Wow, that HE round really didn't do that much damage
and DANG that heat round is awsome! They used it against infantry didn't they?
HE is not for anti-tank use, it's designed for maximum effect against infantry and buildings, with a wide area of effect and lots of shrapnel. HEAT rounds use a shaped explosive charge to propel a jet of molten metal through tank armor. It has very narrow dispersion on impact and would have little effect against infantry in the open. Most anti-tank missiles and rockets including the common RPG-7 use the same principles because the technology allows a relatively low-velocity projectile to more effectively penetrate armor. Again, it's tough to kill foot soldiers with these rockets without scoring direct hits.
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Thanks Ecliptik, you seem to know alot about it!
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somebody posta pic of the King Tiger. I wanna see how big that is compared to other tanks!
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Originally posted by Ecliptik
HE is not for anti-tank use, it's designed for maximum effect against infantry and buildings, with a wide area of effect and lots of shrapnel. HEAT rounds use a shaped explosive charge to propel a jet of molten metal through tank armor. It has very narrow dispersion on impact and would have little effect against infantry in the open. Most anti-tank missiles and rockets including the common RPG-7 use the same principles because the technology allows a relatively low-velocity projectile to more effectively penetrate armor. Again, it's tough to kill foot soldiers with these rockets without scoring direct hits.
The HESH round (High Explosive Squash Head) was a large HE round with a deformable skin that was meant to attatch itself to the tank and detonate a fraction of time later, this would break off pieces of armor on the inside of the tank creating little chunks of armor bouncing around the fighting compartment at very high speed creating a blender effect (spalls). One reason US armored vehicles have a kevlar lining on the inside. Also the HEAT round is effective vs infantry even without a direct hit. The skin of the round will still project out when the round is detonated.
The 1st line from the HEAT round...
"The 120mm M830 High Explosive Anti-Tank-Multi Purpose - Tracer (HEAT-MP-T) is a chemical energy, multi-purpose projectile with an anti-personnel capability."
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/m830a1.htm
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Heres a cutaway view of a Tiger II captured by U.S. forces. The lighting is very bad inside the museum, so this is the best picture I have of it. The Tiger II dwarfs the M4m8 Sherman sitting beside it. Even the gun barrel is about twice as long.
(http://home.insightbb.com/~k4emq/Tiger.jpg)
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There's an old urban legend from back in the day that goes like this:
If you're buttoned up in your M-113 (or similar lightly armored ****box) and it gets hit by a SABOT round, which will naturally pass right through without slowing down, it will suck the contents of the vehicle (human) out the exit hole :) Always seemd to be a bit much to me, but stranger things happen. Of course, there was always the "I knew some guys on some range that captured a fox and put it inside and..." story to back it up when called BS.
Charon
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Originally posted by zorstorer
The HESH round (High Explosive Squash Head) was a large HE round with a deformable skin that was meant to attatch itself to the tank and detonate a fraction of time later, this would break off pieces of armor on the inside of the tank creating little chunks of armor bouncing around the fighting compartment at very high speed creating a blender effect (spalls). One reason US armored vehicles have a kevlar lining on the inside. Also the HEAT round is effective vs infantry even without a direct hit. The skin of the round will still project out when the round is detonated.
The 1st line from the HEAT round...
"The 120mm M830 High Explosive Anti-Tank-Multi Purpose - Tracer (HEAT-MP-T) is a chemical energy, multi-purpose projectile with an anti-personnel capability."
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/m830a1.htm
Nice page zorstorer. The M830 round is, of course, far more advanced and deadly than any HEAT round fielded in WWII or for decades after. :)
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Very true Ecliptik, but the basic design has stayed the same. Deform a chunk of metal into a jet of superheated plasma that burns through the armor. But in doing so you need to wrap the chunk in explosives, and to the best of my knowledge (we only had AP, HE and the new frangable round for the Bradley) no one tried to stop the explosive from expanding out. Could you imagine what the lowly 25mm from today could have done in WW2. Scary :)
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Originally posted by Maverick
HEP and Beehive were removed from the inventory. Heat could do the same job as hep with a flatter trajectory. Beehive was removed without explanation. It did have a problem with the timer as it took time to set it before firing. That made it less effective for rapid use.
HEP had to be stowed in the floor standup racks because if left on its side for to long it would self detonate.
Beehive would also self detonate if timed wrong. You turned it clockwise to the desired time setting, if you went past your desired time setting even by a fraction you had to continue around clockwise till you got it right. If you turned it counter clockwise it would detonate.