Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: JB88 on April 06, 2005, 02:17:05 PM
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US to demand passports of Canadian travelers
http://www.chinaview.cn 2005-04-06 23:46:25
OTTAWA, April 6 (Xinhuanet) -- Canadians will no longer be able toenter the United States using their driver's licence or citizenship card as new US rules require Canadians to produce a passport instead, local press reported Wednesday.
Under the new rules announced Tuesday, as of Dec. 31, 2005, Canadians will need to show a passport or other "secure document" if trips to the Caribbean, Bermuda, Central or South America by air or sea include a US stopover.
The few exceptions to that rule will have to show a secure alternative , such as the Customs and Border Protection Secure Electronic Network for Travelers Rapid Inspection (SENTRI), NEXUS and Free and Secure Trade (FAST) program cards, to clear immigration.
Canadians will still be exempt from an American program that requires foreign visitors to be fingerprinted upon entry, but the new rules nevertheless prompted a terse response from Canadian Public Safety Minister Anne McLellan.
"We will review our requirements for American citizens, and we're going to do that in collaboration with the United States," McLellan said Tuesday , hinting that Canada could impose a similardemand on Americans travelling north. Enditem
we just keep showing our "freedom" in droves don't we.
funny how the europeans are getting closer and nicer to each other while we keep managing to seal ourselves off from the rest of the "savages" in this "dangerous world"
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Youre govt will be building one of these next!
(http://www.glasssteelandstone.com/Images/DE/BerlinWall-002.jpg)
:eek:
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Mar. 22, 2005
The U.S. population of undocumented immigrants has reached an all-time high of nearly 11 million and is shifting away from states traditionally favored by illegal entrants to many new ones, according to a report released Monday.
The influx of illegal entrants - plus a small number of asylum-seekers and temporarily permitted visitors - totaled about 485,000 a year between 2000 and 2004, according to an analysis of U.S. government figures by the Pew Hispanic Center, a private research group based in Washington.
So your suggestion is to do what, exactly?
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may as well. the chinese invented it, the soviets made it efficient, the isrealis have learned to justify it...
its as if the whole of a country suddenly became that crotchety old man in every neighborhood screaming..."whoopeeed kids get off my lawn!!!"
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I see no reason not to require a passport to cross an international border.
Quite frankly, I think this should have always been the norm.
A Canadian entering the US or an American entering Canada should have to do so with a current passport. Just seems like a no brainer to me.
Not sure why those who will fuss about it have a problem with it.
RTR
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I don't mind it.
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the russians had checkpoints all over the place too. they didnt see the slightest problem with it.
i suppose it depends on your feelings about gated communities and the inhabitants therin. i am willing to speculate that a very small percentage of the denizens of this board actually live in one and never will, much less benifit by anyone who does...cant remember the socialogical term for that contradiction...but there is one.
moo.
i just happen to think its rubbish.
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Good, less Canadians in my yard.
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I would imagine that this would kill the Mexican tourist trade for college spring breakers. How many college kids are going to go through the hassle of getting a passport just to party on spring break? How many are going to get drunk and lose it and not be able to re-enter right away?
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Hey BlueJ1!!!
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one step closer to national ID cards.
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Originally posted by Callisto
Hey BlueJ1!!!
Hi?
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Originally posted by BlueJ1
Hi?
Kiss my canadian butt
:D
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lolololololol
Pwned!
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No thanks, French Canadian women are too hairy.
:D
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Your country, only makes sense to secure it as much as you think is necessary.
Callisto, "Location: T.".
Tee dot?? People actually use freaking "Tee Dot"?! I just thought it was horrible rumour. :o
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Did anyone metion that US citizens will also have to have a passport in order to get back in? Thats what chaps my prettythang..my DOD..US Govt issued ID card..or better yet..My drivers license with easily verified information on it is no longer good enough to allow me to enter my OWN country?
Funny when on deployment I can travel all over Europe with nothing more than a military ID and Leave papers.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Your country, only makes sense to secure it as much as you think is necessary.
Callisto, "Location: T.".
Tee dot?? People actually use freaking "Tee Dot"?! I just thought it was horrible rumour. :o
Yes, rumours are true.
:)
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HAHA HAHA REVENGE AT LAST!
:rofl
Some of you may remember my adventures at the canadian border... :)
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I wonder how long it will be before we have to show a passport to exit the country.
shamus
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Originally posted by JB88
the russians had checkpoints all over the place too. they didnt see the slightest problem with it.
i just happen to think its rubbish.
Of course the difference you fail to note is that the Russians had checkpoints to keep people IN, to keep them from leaving, rather than to keep them from coming in unannounced.
Again, my first question you did not answer:
The U.S. population of undocumented immigrants has reached an all-time high of nearly 11 million and is shifting away from states traditionally favored by illegal entrants to many new ones, according to a report released Monday.
So your suggestion is to do what, exactly?
And a second question:
Are you in favor of totally open borders then?
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Originally posted by RTR
I see no reason not to require a passport to cross an international border.
Quite frankly, I think this should have always been the norm.
A Canadian entering the US or an American entering Canada should have to do so with a current passport. Just seems like a no brainer to me.
Not sure why those who will fuss about it have a problem with it.
RTR
Take a trip to the Peace Bridge and Niagara Falls, you'll see why.
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not entirely open borders no. though in the longterm i think that international travel should be as simple as travelling from say oklahoma to washington.
i do not believe in security measures which overly segregate, close off or otherwise draw massive barriers between people. i believe that it stiffles ideas and communication...sets up an overly stone minded precident and opens the doors for retaliation by other countries who might otherwise have been following our good example...(probably under previous pressure from us)
in my view this is still the theoretical equivelent of what the soviets did. you may argue that we are simply trying to ensure that we are secure and that we are making it harder for illegals to work here. but that fact is that what we are failing to do in such situations is hold those who are truly responsible accountable and we are failing to recognize that there is an excuse for every act of injustice or violent act or negative presupposition that one man can have to another. you may say its to keep them out, but dont doubt for a second that it could also be used to kick undesirables out or keep people from bringing in fresh ideas. it is anti-american at its very core.
(give me your tired...your poor, your yearning to be free...french people thought that of us once remember)
and what of the people who hire illegals? they are the ones who offer the incentive, yet the punishments are minimal at best. it goes straight to the core of the lack of personal accountability that exists in this country.
do you think that this is somehow bolstering the image of the united states in the world? do you think that this attitude is going to continue to attract bright minds and free spirits to our soil? i certainly dont think so.
totalitarianism doesnt have that capacity. paranoia kills the spirit.
guys. we got hit by some airplanes.
we are hardly the first country that has encountered terrorism...
and we are becoming what we have always detested.
we are acting like quitters running away to our hole at the first test of our faith.
IMHO.
88
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In essence the Terrorists have already won...Thier whole idea is to incite a reaction to their actions...and we have played right into their hands.
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i couldnt possibly agree more astac
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I say we take a couple of hundred gators from the Florida everglades and Georgia and Mississippi swamps .....turn em loose in the Rio Grande. One Border problem solved!
:aok
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canadians dont taste as good as mexicans and alligators prefer the weather here where the tourists just lay out in the sun and wait to be eaten.
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Been there, done that Torque.
Still whats the difference?
Get a passport.
RTR
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Originally posted by JB88
not entirely open borders no. though in the longterm i think that international travel should be as simple as travelling from say oklahoma to washington.
[/b]
So you're saying then that IF the A-Q terrorists want to come from the Middle East to NYC, it should be as easy as a US Citizen traveling from state to state?
Let me understand you. You're saying you want no barrier? Because as you well know, there is no barrier at all for such a trip by a US citizen.
i do not believe in security measures which overly segregate, close off or otherwise draw massive barriers between people.
[/b]
Are you saying that the requirement for a foreigner to have a valid passport from his home country in order to enter the US is Characteristic of "security measures which overly segregate, close off or otherwise draw massive barriers between people" ?
I don't think having to have a passport is much of barrier at all, let alone one that fits that description. I've traveled to a lot of foreign countries. Most required me to have a valid US passport; I'd say this is really "status quo" in the world, rather than some massive barrier between people.
i believe that it stiffles ideas and communication...
[/b]
The requirement for a passport? Surely you jest.
in my view this is still the theoretical equivelent of what the soviets did.
[/b]
Hardly. In fact, that hypothesis is preposterous from the very start.
we are failing to do in such situations is hold those who are truly responsible accountable
[/b]
That is true. What we obviously disagree on is the fact that people are responsible on BOTH sides of this equation. Indeed, people that employ illegals are just as gulity as those who cross and remain here illegally.
BOTH should be held accountable and punished according to the law.
but dont doubt for a second that it could also be used to kick undesirables out or keep people from bringing in fresh ideas. it is anti-american at its very core.
[/b]
The requirement for a passport. Again, surely you jest. If you really believe that, you need to read more of the background discussions during the Constitutional convention.
On immigration, assimilation, and citizenship naturalization, West finds that the views of Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Hamilton, Madison, Franklin, John Jay, and Gouverneur Morris are remarkably similar.
First, the Founders believed that the American republic had the right to set the limits and conditions of immigration and eventual citizenship. As Gouverneur Morris stated at the Constitutional Convention in 1787, "every society from a great nation down to a club had the right of declaring the conditions on which new members should be admitted."
Second, they welcomed immigrants, but on the condition that they become good citizens. As George Washington explained, "We shall welcome [them] to a participation of all our rights and privileges, if by decency of conduct they appear to merit the enjoyment."
Third, the Founders insisted on assimilation. Washington wrote to Adams that he worried about immigrants "retain[ing] the language, habits, and principles (good or bad) which they bring with them" and favored "an intermixture with our people [where] they, or their descendants, get assimilated to our customs, measures, [and we] soon become one people."
In short, the Founders maintained (sensibly enough) that immigration/assimilation policy be judged on the basis of national interest, i.e., what was good for America. There is not a scintilla of agreement between the Founders' views and Miniter's position that there is some "fundamental right" of free immigration.
(give me your tired...your poor, your yearning to be free...french people thought that of us once remember)
[/b]
My paternal great grandparents came in thru Ellis Island. My maternal grandparents came in thru Ellis Island. All four of these individuals were extremely poor; they came basically with the clothes on their backs. Additionally, the Irish were yearning to be free of English rule.
Note the salient fact: they CAME IN THROUGH ELLIS ISLAND. They came in IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE LAWS OF THE UNITED STATES.
Is this asking too much now?
and what of the people who hire illegals? they are the ones who offer the incentive, yet the punishments are minimal at best. it goes straight to the core of the lack of personal accountability that exists in this country.
[/b]
I agree. As I said, I think BOTH sides of the problem should be addressed. Requiring a passport is a MINIMAL step forward on one side. There needs to be stronger enforcement of the laws against violators on BOTHS sides.
do you think that this is somehow bolstering the image of the united states in the world? do you think that this attitude is going to continue to attract bright minds and free spirits to our soil?
[/b]
I seriously doubt that it is damaging the image of the US. Just about every country requires a passport for entry by foreigners.
Check this link to see which countries require US citizens to have a passport to enter. I think you'll see passports are "status quo" worldwide. It's hard to imagine anyone sees this as unusual or out of the ordinary simply because it is.......... ordinary.
FOREIGN ENTRY REQUIREMENTS (http://travel.state.gov/travel/tips/brochures/brochures_1229.html#g)
totalitarianism doesnt have that capacity.
[/b]
Requiring a passport is totalitarian? This will be news to a very large number of countries.
and we are becoming what we have always detested.
[/b]
That would be a country that requires a passport to enter?
Indeed, you must surely jest.
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Originally posted by Callisto
Yes, rumours are true.
:)
Come on, everyone knows it's pronouced TUH-raw-no. :confused:
;)
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I'm pretty curious how the USA asking that forigners present their passports upon entry into this country is interpreted by some here as a step towards totalitarianism and draws comparisons to the Soviet Union or Nazi Germany...
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Because anything the US does is inherantly evil. I thought you knew that. :confused:
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if trips to the Caribbean, Bermuda, Central or South America by air or sea include a US stopover.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I'm pretty curious how the USA asking that forigners present their passports upon entry into this country is interpreted by some here as a step towards totalitarianism and draws comparisons to the Soviet Union or Nazi Germany...
Because of the arrogance of many US travellers who seem to think they should be exempt from such procedures when travelling overseas.
Remember when the US started fingerprinting people, and countries like Brazil said whats good for the goose is good for the gander... there was a huge uproar from the US over it.
Its getting worse, the USA is demanding biometric passports, and you guys will need to get them as well. $$$$ and a pain in the backside.
When the Canadians start demanding passports, fingerprints, and retina scans just remember before you whine about it ;)
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Originally posted by Vulcan
Because of the arrogance of many US travellers who seem to think they should be exempt from such procedures when travelling overseas.
Remember when the US started fingerprinting people, and countries like Brazil said whats good for the goose is good for the gander... there was a huge uproar from the US over it.
I don't remember any uproar in the US about it. I think it's a great idea.
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Originally posted by Vulcan
Remember when the US started fingerprinting people, and countries like Brazil said whats good for the goose is good for the gander... there was a huge uproar from the US over it.
What huge uproar?
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
I'm pretty curious how the USA asking that forigners present their passports upon entry into this country is interpreted by some here as a step towards totalitarianism and draws comparisons to the Soviet Union or Nazi Germany...
It's the fact that US citzens will now have to have a passport to get back IN the US if you leave.
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U.S. Re-Entry to Get Tougher for Americans
Wednesday, April 06, 2005
WASHINGTON — Americans will need passports to re-enter the United States from Canada (search), Mexico (search), Panama (search) and Bermuda (search) by 2008, part of a tightening of U.S. border controls in an era of terrorist threat, three administration officials said Tuesday.
Similarly, Canadians will also have to present a passport to enter the United States, the officials said.
The announcement, expected later Tuesday at the State Department, will specify that a passport (search) or another valid travel document will have to be shown by U.S. citizens, the officials said.
These include a document called Sentri (search) that is used for Mexico travel or a Nexus (search) for Canada travel.
Until now, Americans returning home from Canada have needed only to show a driver's license or other government-issued photo identification card.
Americans returning from Mexico, Panama or Bermuda currently need only a government-issued photo identification card plus proof of U.S. citizenship like an original birth or naturalization certificate, according to the State Department's Web site.
The new rules, to be phased in by Jan. 1, 2008, were called for in intelligence legislation approved last year by Congress.
Safeguarding U.S. borders are a top concern of U.S. intelligence and security officials. The concern increased after the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks on the World Trade Center in New York and on the Pentagon.
The travel industry has raised concerns that the changes might hamper tourism, one official said.
The announcement follows a three-way summit last month that President Bush held with Prime Minister Paul Martin of Canada and President Vicente Fox of Mexico.
Speaking at Baylor University at Waco, Tex., Bush said border controls with Mexico had to be tightened to make sure that terrorists, drug runners, gun runners and smugglers do not enter the United States.
Besides a passport, re-entering Americans could use another approved travel document like frequent travel cards, which are issued to some people who travel often between the U.S. and Mexico. These cards typically are used to avoid long border-crossing lines.
But in most cases, only passports will do, another U.S. official said.
The new system will deal first with the Caribbean, then Mexico and Canada. It will start at airports and subsequently spread to land crossings, said an official speaking on condition of anonymity.
U.S. inspectors will bear less of a burden with the changes because they won't have to sift through different kinds of travel documents, the officials said.
The only stuff I have a problem with is that I have to have a passport to enter MY OWN COUNTRY!!!!! Especially since I have one of the new hard..real hard to forge Military ID cards...what will they want next? a DNA sample?
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Originally posted by ASTAC
The only stuff I have a problem with is that I have to have a passport to enter MY OWN COUNTRY!!!!! Especially since I have one of the new hard..real hard to forge Military ID cards...what will they want next? a DNA sample?
Why would you have a problem with that? If military are required to have a passport to re-enter, I'm sure the military will provide a passport.
If you think a military ID should suffice for personal pleasure or business travel, why do you think that?
Driver's licenses, airline ID's, even Passports have been forged. This is an attempt to standardize entry procedures using a somewhat more secure means than a driver's license.
It's a BFD. I've had a passport the last 30 odd years. This whole thing draws a yawn.
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You mean that peoplke will ahve to give US passports to the border control agent when they enter the USA!!!
The shock, the horror!!!
JB get a life man, make some artworks, go check out some girls at that beach bar you posted pics of the other day or dop just abour anything else. This paranoid stuff is really a waste of your time...
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It is kind of funny. Its an international border. It will cost dollars to both sides to demand passports but typically the increased security is deemed to be worth that price in trade.
Its sort of sad that our relations with our big brothers to the south have changed to a more typicall relation between nations than was the case before, but times they are achangin.
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Originally posted by ASTAC
It's the fact that US citzens will now have to have a passport to get back IN the US if you leave.
I always showed my passport on re-entry, guess why? Beacuse I usally needed it to enter the foreign countries I was visting and I usally kept it on the way back home... But now I know those countries were evil totalitarian polioce states for requring passports for entry and now the US is just like that....
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Originally posted by Toad
Why would you have a problem with that? If military are required to have a passport to re-enter, I'm sure the military will provide a passport.
If you think a military ID should suffice for personal pleasure or business travel, why do you think that?
Driver's licenses, airline ID's, even Passports have been forged. This is an attempt to standardize entry procedures using a somewhat more secure means than a driver's license.
It's a BFD. I've had a passport the last 30 odd years. This whole thing draws a yawn.
Because I feel that I have proof enough..I've got a passport...not used often...just another thing to lose...If lost...not simple to replace..as it was a pain to get one in the first place..at least where I got mine....Passports are forged far easier than most ID Cards..especially the credit card type.
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Originally posted by ASTAC
Because I feel that I have proof enough..I've got a passport...not used often...just another thing to lose...If lost...not simple to replace..as it was a pain to get one in the first place..at least where I got mine....Passports are forged far easier than most ID Cards..especially the credit card type.
What exactly is so hard about getting your picture taken and printed out immidiately, walking into a post office, filling out a form, paying $50 and waiting for your passport to arrive in the mail?
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Originally posted by Pongo
Its sort of sad that our relations with our big brothers to the south have changed to a more typicall relation between nations than was the case before, but times they are achangin.
I doubt it really reflects a change in the relationship so much as it reflects a change in the nature of forging documentation and a change in the procedures with respect to standardization.
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"guys. we got hit by some airplanes.
we are hardly the first country that has encountered terrorism...
and we are becoming what we have always detested."
JB88 speaks the truth.
Is America no longer the land of the free?
From the outside your nation is begining to look somewhat different.
You want to put up barriers and then you go into other nations and impose your ideas upon them. Hypocracy.
I realy hope our next Govt gets us out of Bush's pocket.
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Originally posted by Skydancer
I realy hope our next Govt gets us out of Bush's pocket.
Never happen....you are pwn3d!!
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Thank god not. Mr Blair maybe but the rest of us.
(http://www.glo.org/modules/xoopsgallery/cache/albums/album01/2819014701_G.jpg)
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I think this is a non-issue. The minority of people who travel outside America already have a passport anyway. Military people should have a passport anyway.
It's just a little sad to see the Canadian/US relationship degrade to this. Aw well, can't stop "progress."
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Just go get a freekin passport and quit whining.
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This is funny. Some of you think that requiring a peice of paper to enter a forgein nation, or re-enter your own nation is as if the United States is closing borders down completly. :rofl
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I'm not looking at it that way..what is sad is the Canadians have let us down...if their security was better..then this boarder thing would be a non issue.
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Actually Toad you can use your military ID as a passport on your personal vacations though it's not highly recommended to do so. I used mine when I went to the Bahamas. My wife did the same thing traveling back and forth from England on civilian transports.
The government also issues government passports and highly recommends all military members purchase a standard passport. Specifically due to the fact that producing your military ID instead of a passport will make you stand out and could make you a potential target. I was taught to keep my military ID hidden when traveling outside the US and to only use my passport when asked for identification.
I don't see why using a passport is a bad thing. So what if the Canadians can't just use a standard ID to enter the US. Every other country requires a passport if your not from there so why shouldn't the US when it comes to the Canadians? Canada shouldn't be a special case when it comes to showing proper identification.
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Originally posted by ASTAC
I'm not looking at it that way..what is sad is the Canadians have let us down...if their security was better..then this boarder thing would be a non issue.
Haha, finally some humour.
Per capita we've outspent the US in border control. And by the way, with your border dudes doing such a good job down south, by letting, what, a million or two undocumented people into your country, I hope we check the passport of evryone entering from the US.
Now just for more watermelon and giggles, tell me the story again about how all the 911 dudes crossed the Canadian border.....please tell that one! It's such a fun little story, gets me all warm inside. So c'mon tell me that one again?
haha, great humour here.
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Yep Airbumba we can surely trust open borders with Canada when they allow these kinds of folks to live there.
Millennium Plot (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/trail/inside/cron.html)
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A canadian who I met in the states, was admitted on the flight to the states with the passport and the green card.
He couldn't prove with the drivers license that hes a canadian :D
I wonder how many terrorists will actually check positively on the question asking whether they're terrorists or coming to the country to commit sabotage etc.
Of course the same card tells the traveller to contact the embassy prior to the travel, if he checks positively on any of the questions. You get the green card when checking in for the flight or in the plane :D
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Originally posted by Cobra412
Yep Airbumba we can surely trust open borders with Canada when they allow these kinds of folks to live there.
Millennium Plot (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/trail/inside/cron.html)
C'mon Cobra get along with it. Tell me the 911 story pleeeaassse, I like that one sooo much more.
Oh, another good one is people sneaking across the Canadian border...haha, ya well the better do it in the few summer months we have, cause theres plenty of neck deep snow stopping people from waltzing over the border during the winter months.....unlike Mexico.
Now, can I hear my story?
Oh ya, which province did Timmy McVeigh come from again? That must be a story by now? Maybe I'd like to hear that one....
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What don't want to comment on the Millennium Plot? I kind have figured you wouldn't.
Poor Canadians can't come to the US without a passport anymore. I'm sure many US citizens are horribly upset with this. Why come here if you have issues with the US in the first place? Don't like us then don't come. If you wanna cross our borders though you better get a passport. If not then stay HOME!
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I was always surprised that going to Canada or Mexico did not require a passport. If I leave the country (and I rarely do because I love the USA and really see no reason to leave it) I want to get immunized and have a passport. While we are in a global economy and my ancestry (at least before 200 years ago) was european, the world is a very dangerous place. Most countries hate the US.
911 was a brutal and rude wake up call. I put requiring a passport to enter or exit the US right with the "don't run with scissors" rule. While it is a change, and change comes hard to some, requiring a passport (like immunizations) is a good idea.
Regards,
Malta
p.s. I do not consider Canada a country that hates the US. Any country whose beer I drink I would consider visting. Strange criteria to some, but it makes sense to me. The same thing goes for Bar-B-Que.
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Originally posted by stantond
Most countries hate the US.
Thats an absurd and ignorant statement.
It really shows you haven't been to "outside".
It doesn't mean the other countries hates the US, when they disagree with the actions.
The "hate" word is a totally wrong word for it.
A good example are these forum trolls here, whos been calling me anti-american, american hater... and what not.
Apparently I should be hating the USA, but for some reason this anti-american american hater just recently spent 3 weeks in the states in an american family and would like to do it again.
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That didn't mention that this is not effective immediately (comes into effect 2006 or 2007), and at that time Americans will also need a passport to re-enter the US.
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WHAT! you mean i now need to have a passport if i want to cross the border to be refused patronage at some grotty bar serving pisswater beer? looks like im going to need a more serious reason to visit america now...
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Originally posted by Cobra412
What don't want to comment on the Millennium Plot? I kind have figured you wouldn't.
Poor Canadians can't come to the US without a passport anymore. I'm sure many US citizens are horribly upset with this. Why come here if you have issues with the US in the first place? Don't like us then don't come. If you wanna cross our borders though you better get a passport. If not then stay HOME!
...awhhh, does this mean I don't get my story? :(
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no grun. they would have to give us foreign passports when they enter our country, not american passports.
americans would have to present passports when they re-entered.
now, with a political system which is currently engaging in the following constitutionally erosive activities i think its pretty clear which way some people would like the ball to role.
- threatening judges that it is in thier best interests to support party dogma.
- turning the protection of innocent until proven guilty into pre-emptive slander and conviction and with regards to foreign policy...preemptive attack without any meaningful global support.
- breaking constitutional rule by using a dying woman as a litmus test for thier ability to create a law concerning one specific event and to highlight thier crusade to bring the judicial into thier sphere of influence.
- converting a dynamic, creative and innovative culture into one which no longer looks to the hope of the future, but insists that the road ahead is dangerous...with no end of that danger in site.
etc. etc.
all of this may be fine for you, or for others who would rather that big brother make thier decisions for them...that they no longer remain self determinate...that they no longer be required to reach out an olive branch of peace and equality to the world with an eye upon fairness and compassion.
nope.
i am opposed to anything that even remotely resembles a prison control system.
it is antifreedom, pro machine and i believe that in the long term, it is a balance of freedom and consequence which brings order with progress rather than strong armed tactics with static status quoism.
now, while you are whipping up a fresh batch of paranoia masks for me to wear, why dont you step away from your admonisions and find yourself a nice history book to read.
in them...you will find pages and pages
of mistakes to be learned from.
power has a tendancy to see how far it can go until it is checked.
this is my concern...nothing more, nothing less.
if we do not question...if we do not keep the wheels of democracy slow...we become rome.
sure they built the aquaducts...but so were they big. ugly. uncreative and doomed.
greek wannabes to the last.
with all due respect of course.
:)
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Originally posted by stantond
p.s. I do not consider Canada a country that hates the US. Any country whose beer I drink I would consider visting. Strange criteria to some, but it makes sense to me. The same thing goes for Bar-B-Que.
You got that right Malta. The only people who think Canada hates the US are the people who profit from the politically induced tensions that are being kept afloat by timely inflated 'news' story's that keep the artificial tensions going. The only people who think Canada hates the US, are the ones who want YOU to think that.
I haven't met a Canadian yet who has said to me that they outright hate Americans, never. Do we have differences, you bet, big deal. Are they enough to make Canadians hate Americans, not a chance.
And when, and if you do venture up here, let me be the first to buy ya some of that there beer you've taken a fixin to, .
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Well i'm goin to bed, with no story:(
Here's one for you cobra.
Canada is not a superhighway for terrorists, says Interpol boss
Wed Mar 30, 5:39 PM ET
JOHN WARD
OTTAWA (CP) - While some Americans have suggested that Canada is a superhighway for terrorists bound for their country, the head of Interpol, himself an American, says no.
Ronald Noble, secretary general of the international criminal police body, said Canada works hard in the fight against terrorism.
"I am a citizen of the United States and I say that, with all due respect to my country, my country sometimes gets it half right," he said.
"If it's been said that Canada is a superhighway, I would say they got it half right: Canada is super, but it's not a highway."
Noble, a former law professor at New York University and one-time chief law enforcement officer for the U.S. Treasury Department, was making his first visit to Canada since taking office four years ago.
He said Interpol is making a major effort to improve communications among the world's police forces and to promote information-sharing.
The 182-country body now has a fledgling DNA database, with more than 14,000 entries. It began with only 73 DNA profiles two years ago.
He said the database poses no threat to privacy because there are no names attached. But it allows police in one country to determine if a DNA sample from their crime scene matches that of a crime in another country, allowing the two countries to pool their information to pursue the suspect.
Noble said Canada has played a key role in helping promote co-operative policing.
"Canada contributes in every way one could hope in terms of sharing information," he said.
He said Interpol has set its priorities in crime-fighting: terrorism, financial and high-tech crime, trafficking and sexual exploitation of women and children and drugs and organized criminals.
Co-operation is the best defence, he said, and Canada is showing the way.
"I believe that every country in the world has a responsibility to do all it can to keep its citizens safe, its neighbour's citizens safe and the world community safe," he said.
"As secretary-general of Interpol, whatever you call the highest category of support and participation we have, Canada is in that category."
Noble said Interpol acts as a clearinghouse for information and a support service for member police forces. It has no armed agents of its own, issues no warrants of its own and depends on member countries for technical and manpower support.
RCMP Commissioner Giuliano Zaccardelli, a supporter of Interpol who squired Noble around Ottawa during his visit, said he's a major believer in working with other police.
That's what helps keep the Canada-U.S. border as secure as it can be.
"Can we guarantee a 100 per cent? Nobody can.
"But I tell you we work extremely hard and work extremely well in a very integrated and co-ordinated fashion on the Canada side and in an integrated and seamless way with our American partners."
Cya later.
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Canada is "Super"? Kinda reminds me of Big Gay Al "I feel super..thanks for asking"
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Originally posted by Skydancer
Is America no longer the land of the free?
Yep, it`s still the land of the free. That`s why you are so jealous isn`t it?
The big difference is now that we are focusing on what is right for the U.S. and it`s citizens like it should have been all along.
If the U.S. bothers you so much, and it is apparent it does from your multitude of U.S. bashing posts, then don`t worry about it anymore. Get over your jealousy, live in your country and don`t worry about ours. I certainly don`t worry about yours. As a matter of fact I could give a rat`s *** less about the affairs of your country. I certainly have no desire to visit there. Can`t see anything that would even remotely interest me. I certainly wouldn`t want to live there, especialy under your government and restrictions.
I certainly don`t want to see folks like you in my country that spends their time bashing it, but who are so obviously jealous of our way of life it makes you appear ignorant and bitter.
So... if these steps are needed to avoid that, then so be it. It`s no biggy and something that should have been done long ago.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
Yep, it`s still the land of the free. That`s why you are so jealous isn`t it?
The big difference is now that we are focusing on what is right for the U.S. and it`s citizens like it should have been all along.
If the U.S. bothers you so much, and it is apparent it does from your multitude of U.S. bashing posts, then don`t worry about it anymore. Get over your jealousy, live in your country and don`t worry about ours. I certainly don`t worry about yours. As a matter of fact I could give a rat`s *** less about the affairs of your country. I certainly have no desire to visit there. Can`t see anything that would even remotely interest me. I certainly wouldn`t want to live there, especialy under your government and restrictions.
I certainly don`t want to see folks like you in my country that spends their time bashing it, but who are so obviously jealous of our way of life it makes you appear ignorant and bitter.
So... if these steps are needed to avoid that, then so be it. It`s no biggy and something that should have been done long ago.
a tip to save time and finger strain jackle...
"jealous much?" would have sufficed in this case.
;)
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88 go drip some water or work on your gerbil art. Something productive like that. :D
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Nice red herring and strawman techniques throughout the thread. WTG JB88, nicely done.
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all that time that i spent as a republican must be showing through again toad.
it was the big government switcheroo that broke it for me...the immenent threat of caligulan imperialism looming on the horizon like so many broken gladiators pouring thier blood red soul into the soil for our entertainment.
;)
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Originally posted by Jackal1
88 go drip some water or work on your gerbil art. Something productive like that. :D
yer gonna have to do better than throw my work at me my friend. i know you liked it.
since when do drive through window folks have a corner on politics in this country anyhow?
peace.
88
:D
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Toad, do you know were the name Wop originated?
It originated on Ellis Is and was stamped on the immagrants immigration papers that came in WithOut Papers.
In 2000 befor 911 hit the fan I did a crosscountry trip and every time I crossed (several times) into the States I showed my passport and got the 3rd degree from the American border guards.:eek:
BTW, every time I go to Quebec I carry my passport. :D
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Originally posted by JB88
yer gonna have to do better than throw my work at me my friend. i know you liked it.
Yea, I thought it was just .....errrr........ummmmm...pe achy. :D
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irregradless. i am proud of it and dont consider you insults to be any more potent than the memetic tippy typing of an unseen specter in the mist.
perhaps you'll share yours my friend?
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Insults?? Hell, I said it was peachy. :D
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Canada anounces trade sanctions against the US for thier illegal tarifs on soft wood lumber(billions of dollars that the US has been stealing from Canadian logging companies for years) and the US anounces that Canadians will require passports to enter the country.
Times they are a changing.
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Originally posted by Jackal1
Insults?? Hell, I said it was peachy. :D
well then whatever you do is akin to a fuzzy skinned fruit as well. my bad. i took it to be sarcasm.
;)
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Well Can/US border was the longest open/friendly Border in the world...
Others where jealous, we took it for granted, now its going...
Passports are Ok...but they want BIO/Passports(no thx u)
so long my southern brothers, it was fun while it lasted...
Florida will pay a high price, so will our Vermont neighbors...how unfortunate
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The only stuff I have a problem with is that I have to have a passport to enter MY OWN COUNTRY!!!!! Especially since I have one of the new hard..real hard to forge Military ID cards...what will they want next? a DNA sample?
Yes in fact the US requires a biometric ID with the passport - so it's not just a passport you get registered through your biology to a national database.
;)
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Originally posted by JB88
...the immenent threat of caligulan imperialism looming on the horizon
Yeah... because of a passport. Nuclear holocaust in a paper booklet. Ragnarok. Armageddon. The End of Days.
It's all over... sniff... and it started with a passport.
Thanks for the dramatic interlude. Guess I'll go have my coffee.
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Originally posted by Pongo
Canada anounces trade sanctions against the US..... the US anounces that Canadians will require passports to enter the country.
Times they are a changing.
The times must be changing if a normally level-headed guy like you really thinks those two news tidbits are actually linked.
I mean passports. THAT will show you guys not to slap trade sanctions on us, right? Better watch it... next we won't let you have any of our Bud Light or other great tasting, less filling beers. The beer-drinking population of Canada will quake, I'm sure. ;)
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If this prevents Slo from visiting... well, I guess every cloud DOES have a silver lining.
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did 88 actualy say "my bad"?
poor skyprancer... he has never even been to the U.S. yet.... he knows everything about it and hates it so.
lazs
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Originally posted by RTR
I see no reason not to require a passport to cross an international border.
You are either stupid or you don't travel.
This is going to be a hit the US much harder than Canada. AFAIK most US citizens don't have passports and getting one takes 6 months.
Not that I'm condoning the US chiice in this matter, It's your choice of course. Personally I'd have hard time going back to times when you had a passport control every time you crossed a border in Europe. Not to mention you had to change currency.
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Originally posted by lazs2
did 88 actualy say "my bad"?
lazs
Yea and I want my hook back.;)
Us "drive through window folks" can`t afford all that equipment. :D
He also said..."the memetic tippy typing of an unseen specter in the mist. "
Do you remember Maynard G. from Dobie Gillis? :)
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Well Mora, I am not stupid, neither am I landlocked.
Have travelled half way around this world in my 45 years, always had a passport, and never had any problems.
As far as taking 6 months to get a passport. Well, sounds like a personal problem to me.
As this whole thread is about to degenerate into a flame fest, I am stepping out.
Cheers,
RTR
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Originally posted by RTR
Have travelled half way around this world in my 45 years, always had a passport, and never had any problems.
RTR
This is because you HAD a passport.
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Originally posted by Toad
So your suggestion is to do what, exactly?
since you have them already ... i suggest to legalize their entry and get rid of those silly restrictions ???
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Originally posted by Fishu
I wonder how many terrorists will actually check positively on the question asking whether they're terrorists or coming to the country to commit sabotage etc.
Of course the same card tells the traveller to contact the embassy prior to the travel, if he checks positively on any of the questions. You get the green card when checking in for the flight or in the plane :D
LOL that fas so funny....
American visa applyence form ...
FIRST NAME:
SECOND NAME:
THIRD NAME:
NICK NAME:
MOTHERS NAME:
and so on ..
later on...
Are you terrorist ?
Do you wanna commit any crime within US ?
Do you have any nasty disease ? :D
i posted tourist visa applience few years back overhere
:rofl
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They didn't ask my nickname, I guess thats why they let me into the country :(
Oh yeah, the customs worker stapled part of the card into the wrong page of my passport. On the amendments page.
It's the first trip on with my very own passport, when I needed one ;)
Otherwise it's been a long time from the last time I needed a passport, I was so young it was included into my mothers passport.
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Lazs you are mistaken.
In 87 aged nineteen I lived and worked in the USA for four months.
In 98 I spent three weeks touring the midwest in a chevy camper. Took my ex to Sturgis and the Black hills, Pine Ridge, and Chicago, plus many points in between.
So Sorry to dissapoint you but I have been to your country and in the main rather liked it but then I didn't meet guys such as you or dips**** like Jackal1 who seems to be blind and has a real fixation with homosexuals! ( I worry for him ) Get counseling Jackal!
:D
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Ok back to the topic .....
Now I could criticise the EU for many things and as a Brit I rather like my national identity and don't want to become a euro person. However I do think that as a member nation of the EU its rather cool that I can explore the continent on my bike without needing to go though endless border controls or present my passport every few miles.
Plus if I'm willing to learn the Lingo I can go work in any of the member states.
God bless the free states of Europe.
:aok
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Originally posted by Skydancer
Ok back to the topic .....
Now I could criticise the EU for many things and as a Brit I rather like my national identity and don't want to become a euro person. However I do think that as a member nation of the EU its rather cool that I can explore the continent on my bike without needing to go though endless border controls or present my passport every few miles.
Plus if I'm willing to learn the Lingo I can go work in any of the member states.
God bless the free states of Europe.
:aok
Our States are all free, Canada and Mexico are foreign Countries.
ergo...passports.
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Originally posted by weaselsan
Our States are all free, Canada and Mexico are foreign Countries.
ergo...passports.
I'm in.
If , as a Canadian, I never want another terrorist to sneak thru here, and that means controlling the flow back and forth between our borders in a more stringent fashion, then by all means, count me in. It is without a doubt in the best interest of our two countries to do so.
cya up there.
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Originally posted by Skydancer
Lazs you are mistaken.
In 87 aged nineteen I lived and worked in the USA for four months.
In 98 I spent three weeks touring the midwest in a chevy camper. Took my ex to Sturgis and the Black hills, Pine Ridge, and Chicago, plus many points in between.
So Sorry to dissapoint you but I have been to your country and in the main rather liked it but then I didn't meet guys such as you or dips**** like Jackal1 who seems to be blind and has a real fixation with homosexuals! ( I worry for him ) Get counseling Jackal!
:D
Gee Zulu. I don`t think I`m the one to be worried about a fixation with homos. I mean after all you announced your gayness , then decided you were not ready to come all the way out of the closet yet I guess. You really need to work on that. You post a picture of your boyfriend and everything. You need to make up your mind I guess.
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Another sad bag of insults and c**p from Mr Jackal1. Anything to add to the debate? Like your opinion on the thread in question or just anothr B S personal attack? Oh I forgot you only do obsession and B S personal attack these days.
Ok my mistake sorry
:rolleyes: :lol :lol
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I've got a passport...had one for about two years.
Last year it was stamped by a US Customs official when disembarking a cruise ship.
This doesn't bother me...*yawn*
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Funny I happened upon this thread tonight.
I just got back (3 hours give or take) from a brief Montana/North Dakota trip.
Was only in the United States for about 10 hours.
Having crossed the border a fair number of times before in the last 3 or 4 years, I knew what to expect.
As such, I packed the bare minimum, cleaned the car out, and only brought what I NEEDED for the trip. Easier on me and the DHS workers, as I have been busted down everytime I was a guest of the US I expect to be told to pull off to the side.
This time it was a little different though.
I, myself, and the two passengers i was with were told to come inside while our ID was checked.
I was then asked to approach the counter and remove my jacket..which was searched..then empty my pant pockets..lift up my pant legs, my wallet was thouroughly searched, as was my hat, and yes..even my sunglasses.
This happened to both my passengers as well.
Meanwhile my car was given a good working over.
I have had my vehicle searched before at a border crossing. But this time was remarkably different.
As I said earlier. I gave the car a good cleaning. I dont think any DHS officer likes fishing under seats through a sea of gum wrappers and pop cans...So i made an effort to clean things up for them (as I was sure i would get searched yet again.)
So as my car is getting a looking at, one young DHS officer comes walking towards the building we were being effectively detained in. (We were all told to sit down and wait to be called to approach the counter, and that we were not to talk to each other while we waited. In addition another DHS officer stood in the doorway which we had entered.)
He has my ashtray from my car and the 12v cigarette lighter in his hands.
He point blank asked me if i had been smoking "pot" (his word.)
I replied with a friendly, yet firm "No, I have not."
He told me that my ashtray smelled like "pot." He then informed me that he was going to test the ashes in the ashtray. (He didnt inform me what he was testing for, but i guess it was for "pot")
After mixing my ashes with some other thing and waiting 5 or so minutes the DHS officer held the sample up to 3 different light sources. Not finding anything, he asked his supervisor to take a look. Again nothing. Then the younger officer asked the senior officer to smell the ashtray. The senior officer replied that the ashtray smelled like tobacco and said "no, it is clean, but good try" Then he laughed. The junior officer retired out of view with that "tail between his legs" look.
Our ID was returned and we were sent on our way. Both the senior officer and another gentleman who ran our ID thanked us for our patience and willing compliance.
I thought the whole ordeal was a bit excessive, considering both mine and my passengers compliance.
Upon returning to my car i was dissapointed to see that the DHS officers had left quite the mess. The few contents of the glovebox (the usual pens, owners manual, one book) a water bottle in the cupholder, a package of cigarettes that was in plain view on top of the console, a tire gauge i keep in the drivers door pocket, and coffee mug in the driver's cupholder were all over the floor. The almost full pack (22 of 25) of cigarettes were thrown all over the 2 front floormats.
The trunk was even worse. There were 2 tagged duffles in the trunk that belonged to the one passenger, my RCMP storm parka (that thing is amazing, it is a tent, a blanket, and a pillow all in one..oh yeah, and a jacket.) and a 2.5 gallon plastic jerry can of gas that I like to keep full when im making a trip to a place where I dont know where the next gas station will be. I keep it wedged in the corner of the trunk..straight up and down.
The jerry can of gas was on top of all the other articles that had been spread out all over the bottom of the trunk...on its side. I'd like to think this was just an oversight or an accident..but I can't.
Im not going to not visit the United States of America just because I had one bad experience. This one 'tard just might have been having a bad day (he had that "animal that says meow" whipped look about him), or gung ho and new to the job and wanting to prove just how hardcore he could be, or maybe he is just one bad apple in a big bunch of good people.
In short, two points.
1. When you are a guest, be it another person's house...or another's country. You are just that. A guest. Wipe your feet before you walk in, and help with the dishes.
2. Time and time again I have said it. "I dislike far more Canadians than Americans."
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Originally posted by Skydancer
Anything to add to the debate?
I believe you may have been all knotted up in your emotional state there Zulu and missed it. A few deep breaths and read it again.