Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: OIO on April 06, 2005, 08:53:29 PM
-
Whats so wrong about them?
-
Everything - they reduce freedom, increase govt power, cost money to implement and dont work.
-
reduce freedom how?
a national ID is the same as your driver's license or photo ID...both of which you need to do anything in life..from buying a car to buying a house or an airplane ticket..heck even to buy beer.
-
How exactly does the ID cards reduce freedom?
How can it increase the govt power?
How it doesn't work?
Could also debate about the cost issues too.
How much money can it *save* by simplifying some tasks?
The ID card doesn't have to be carried on at all times, you can just leave it at home if you wish.
It would reduce your freedom if you would get held for not being able to prove your identity.
...which why the ID card could be also good.
Oh yeah, you can do the same with the drivers license... oh wait.. whats the difference?
Does that mean the drivers license actually reduces freedom, because it only lets you drive, but then acts also as kind of an ID card?
-
What true reductions in freedom are there? Think about it..like someone posted before...your drivers license is in a national database now.... Thats how a COP in Cali..can arrest you for a warrant in Virginia...What difference would a national ID card make?..now if tey start putting up roadblocks on state and city boarders and make you present your ID to pass..then it becomes a problem.
-
yes it does. a big problem.
if you are gonna do it, use it to replace all other forms of id...oh, and take away the states rights while you are at it...
then pray that they dont start screwing with you when you disagree.
is life a prison or a park?
-
This is what the proposed database will store if ID cards become law in the UK
Name
Other previous names or aliases;
Date and place of birth and, if the person has died, the date of death;
Address
Previous addresses in the United Kingdom and elsewhere;
Times of residency at different places in the United Kingdom or elsewhere;
Current residential status;
Residential statuses previously held;
Information about numbers allocated to the applicant for identification purposes and about the documents to which they relate;
Information about occasions on which recorded information in the Register has been provided to any person;
Information recorded in the Register on request.
Photograph
Fingerprints
“Other” biometrics (iris recognition);
Signature
Nationality;
Entitlement to remain in the United Kingdom; and
Where entitlement derives from a grant of leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom, the terms and conditions of that leave.
National Identity Registration Number;
The number of any ID card that has been issued;
National Insurance number;
The number of any relevant immigration document;
The number of any United Kingdom passport (within the meaning of the Immigration Act 1971 (c. 77)) that has been issued;
The number of any passport issued by or on behalf of the authorities of a country or territory outside the United Kingdom or by or on behalf of an international organisation;
The number of any document that can be used (in some or all circumstances) instead of a passport;
The number of any identity card issued by the authorities of a country or territory outside the United Kingdom;
Any reference number allocated by the Secretary of State in connection with an application made for permission to enter or to remain in the United Kingdom;
The number of any work permit (within the meaning of the Immigration Act 1971);
Any driver number connected to a driving licence;
The number of any designated document which is held by the applicant that is a document the number of which does not fall within any of the preceding sub-paragraphs;
The date of expiry or period of validity of a document the number of which is recorded by virtue of this paragraph.
The date of every application for registration;
The date of every application for a modification of the contents of his entry;
The date of every application confirming the contents of his entry (with or without changes);
The reason for any omission from the information recorded in his entry;
Particulars (in addition to its number) of every ID card issued;
Whether each such card is in force and, if not, why not;
Particulars of every person who has countersigned an application for an ID card or a designated document;
Particulars of every notification given by the applicant for the purposes of regulations under section 13(1) (lost, stolen and damaged ID cards etc.);
Particulars of every requirement by the Secretary of State for the individual to surrender an ID card issued to the applicant.
The information provided in connection with every application to be entered in the Register, for a modification of the contents of entry in the Register or for the issue of an ID card;
Information provided in connection with every application confirming entry in the Register (with or without change;
Particulars of the steps taken, in connection with an application mentioned in paragraph (a) or (b) or otherwise, for identifying the applicant or for verifying the information provided in connection with the application;
Particulars of any other steps taken or information obtained (otherwise than in connection with an application mentioned in paragraph (a) or (b)) for ensuring that there is a complete, up-to-date and accurate entry about that individual in the Register;
Particulars of every notification given by that individual for the purposes of section 12.
A personal identification number to be used for facilitating the making of applications for information recorded in his entry, and for facilitating the provision of the information;
A password or other code to be used for that purpose or particulars of a method of generating such a password or code;
Questions and answers to be used for identifying a person seeking to make such an application or to apply for or to make a modification of that entry.
Particulars of every occasion on which information contained in the individual’s entry has been provided to a person;
Particulars of every person to whom such information has been provided on such an occasion;
Other particulars, in relation to each such occasion, of the provision of the information.
Thats infringing my liberty and giving the Govt more power.
They'll also want me to pay £50 for the privilege.
Spain has ID cards but that didn't stop the Madrid bombings.
-
They have proven lately that states don't have any rights...that when they are at odds with the govt..the govt will just step in legally or not.
-
didnt work last time. but it set dangerous precident.
-
If you are talking about the Shiavo case..Here is another view on that....If you look at it..or govt was set up with checks and balances...but there never really been a check of the judicial part...since there hasn't been...the judicial part of state and federal govt assumes it is autonomous...that is not the case..if they can check the executive or legislative..then the other two brances can and should be able to chech the judicial...like I said just another view on that
-
Originally posted by Chortle
Spain has ID cards but that didn't stop the Madrid bombings.
A moot point, it really isn't any crime fightning tool, let alone terrorism.
-
I'm going to invest in Kleenex.
-
its not a tooooma!!! - ahnold.
:)
-
If I don't want one, can I not get one?
Will it prevent me from doing anything I can currently do? Why?
I see no need for one. If there is no need, it is bad in my eyes.
-SW
-
Originally posted by JB88
its not a tooooma!!! - ahnold.
:)
I only vaguely remember hearing that one before. :lol
-
had to be done. it was scratching at the very base of my soul.
heres mine.
me- hi. my name is august.
them -hi. im september.
me- never heard that before.
them - really?!
-
Originally posted by ASTAC
If you are talking about the Shiavo case..Here is another view on that....If you look at it..or govt was set up with checks and balances...but there never really been a check of the judicial part...since there hasn't been...the judicial part of state and federal govt assumes it is autonomous...that is not the case..if they can check the executive or legislative..then the other two brances can and should be able to chech the judicial...like I said just another view on that
The other branches can check the judicial. They just cant do it by making unconstitutional law...
-
Originally posted by Silat
The other branches can check the judicial. They just cant do it by making unconstitutional law...
But the judicial can impose unconstitutional views on citizens, regardless of the laws or rights granted. They can then refuse to even consider a petition by the citizenry on that issue. Where is the limitation of power on the judicial branch?
-
A national ID would prevent moronic mishaps like were posted some time earlier.. With confusing people that had exactly the same name. I wouldn't want to be called James Smith and then guessing which Smith's bill or parking ticket I'd be paying next.
Didn't one guy go to jail for false identificaition? There's nothing but benefits in having a system like that. All your visits in government agencies will be much simplier and much less red tape in general.
Now for the biometric part, that is an overkill for sure. That's way too invasive already IMO but the rest of the information will benefit you, not hurt you.
-
Originally posted by ASTAC
What true reductions in freedom are there? Think about it..like someone posted before...your drivers license is in a national database now.... Thats how a COP in Cali..can arrest you for a warrant in Virginia...What difference would a national ID card make?..now if tey start putting up roadblocks on state and city boarders and make you present your ID to pass..then it becomes a problem.
I'm curious about how that works in the US. I understand for criminal warrants, but what about stuff realted to driving codes?
Like tickets? If someone owes tickets in , say, Florida, and they get stopped in Vermont, does Vermont hold the guy and get payment for Florida? What happens?
Just wonderin.
-
No...that kind of jurisdiction doesn't exist...however..if your driver's license is suspended or revoked..then they can take action.
-
Originally posted by ASTAC
No...that kind of jurisdiction doesn't exist...however..if your driver's license is suspended or revoked..then they can take action.
So if someone moved from FLA, to Vermont and had a bunch of tickets back in FLA, Fla, would suspend his liscence due to unpaid tickets and Vermont would then refuse to issue him a liscence till the FLA stuff was cleared up?
-
Yes.
-
Originally posted by ASTAC
Yes.
Rgr. thanks.
I didn't think someone could go around racking up tickets in every state.
-
whats wrong with a passport?
-
ID cards work very well.
Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union showed that.
If they were good enough for Nazi Germany then they are good enough for the US I say.
After all if Rep. F. James Sensenbrenner III (R-Wis.) says that uttering an indecent word on the radio is such a big threat to the fabric of the US that criminal prosecution should be the result, then what are a few ID cards?
"People who are in flagrant disregard should face a criminal process rather than a regulator process," Sensenbrenner said. "That is the way to go. Aim the cannon specifically at the people committing the offenses, rather than the blunderbuss approach."
I am not making this up either.
-
Why not just brand us all at birth and get it over with. That's where it's going.
-
With the biometric id's you're already branded at birth. :aok
Most european countries have had ID cards for decades by the way and don't seem to suffer any side effects.
-
A barcode tattooed across the forehead would do it, plus supermarket scanners at every crossroads with microchips injected into our arse cheeks so every time we sit down biometric readers transmit vital statistics to a huge central computer. Then the next time we’re trying to buy donuts the cashier can decline the sale on the grounds of health.
-
Originally posted by Lazerus
Where is the limitation of power on the judicial branch?
same as the US President, Impeachment.
-
Originally posted by Habu
ID cards work very well.
Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union showed that.
Time to rid the drivers licenses and credit cards....
ID cards have been and are elsewhere than just in the nazi germany and the USSR.
Somehow you'll only promote two countries from the many, which makes your point pointless.
-
Can I see your papers please Fishu?
-
Originally posted by Habu
Can I see your papers please Fishu?
I don't have papers, I got plastic ;)
-
why would i need ANOTHER card in order to prove i am who i say i am...i already have:
drivers license
health care card
debit card
SIN card
4 cards, 1 private, 2 provincial, and 1 national. by the time i turn nineteen i'll have six, if you include a passport and a credit card.
they all say the same thing, and were all issued by different people, so i fail to see how another card is going to help theres already enough redundancy in the system.
"Can I see your papers please Fishu?"
license and registration please.
-
Originally posted by vorticon
license and registration please.
don't have.
-
Originally posted by Fishu
don't have.
public transport eh?
-
Originally posted by vorticon
public transport eh?
The drivers license costs something like 1400 bucks, the car costs what it costs, the taxes are what taxes are, the gas is three times more expensive than in the states, would need to find a parking lot for the car.
I'd only need the drivers license for a job which requires driving, at least until I'm wealthy enough to pay all that what it costs to live in the biggest city in Finland.
-
Originally posted by Chortle
A barcode tattooed across the forehead would do it, plus supermarket scanners at every crossroads with microchips injected into our arse cheeks so every time we sit down biometric readers transmit vital statistics to a huge central computer. Then the next time we’re trying to buy donuts the cashier can decline the sale on the grounds of health.
The tallest 'Straw Man' evar!
-
Thanks :)
-
Do you think a guy who made a 300 kill streak in AH needs a car? :rolleyes: