Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: oboe on April 07, 2005, 03:39:30 PM
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Hotheaded football parent with an AK-47 apparently.
Gunman shoots Texas H.S. football coach (http://staging.hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/COACH_SHOT?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2005-04-07-14-16-50)
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maybe he felt threatened so it was ok
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a high school football coach was stabbed to death in my small town this year at school by 2 kids..bob mars was his name...but did it make cnn? nope,,because it was done with a knife and not a gun.
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Originally posted by hyena426
a high school football coach was stabbed to death in my small town this year at school by 2 kids..bob mars was his name...but did it make cnn? nope,,because it was done with a knife and not a gun.
did it make fox?
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Originally posted by Furball
maybe he felt threatened so it was ok
Well if the coach had of been armed the outcome may have very well been different.
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Bites lower lip......HARD.
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did it make fox?
nope only local news..sence it was just a knife killing i guess it isnt big anuff for cnn or fox..lol..trial is just getting over..one kid got life in prison..still waiting for other kids results..they are 15 and 16years old
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The Bob Mars murder made MSNBC:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7180905/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7180905/)
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wow,,suprized at that one:)..sure didnt make cnn or world news
but i notice thats under local news..dont think thats world wide news and i notice the station is kndu which is are local tv station i dont beleve it made world news..just local new on there web site
dont think the storie was juicy anuff for them,,lol
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But yeah, I agree with you hyena - a stabbing isn't as glamorous as news of a shooting with an assault rifle.
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cc oboe....very true..plus the town i live in...so small i got stuck in the store because cows were blocking the door..hehe but if it would of happend with a gun i bet it would of been plasterd everywere and my town would be on the map like columbine<~~never heard of that place till the shootings happend..stabbing is just to common i guess..lol
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AK47's are cool.
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ban highschool sports programs that was clearly the culprit. ;)
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Lazs and Beet1e should be along shortly to clear all this up.
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Guess they didn't buy the "It was a rebuilding season" excuse.
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Originally posted by oboe
But yeah, I agree with you hyena - a stabbing isn't as glamorous as news of a shooting with an assault rifle.
I don't see "assault rifle" anywhere in that article
Says "Shot in the chest with a .45 cal. pistol"
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Originally posted by oboe
Hotheaded football parent with an AK-47 apparently.
Gunman shoots Texas H.S. football coach (http://staging.hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/COACH_SHOT?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2005-04-07-14-16-50)
Umm, How does "shot coach Gary Joe Kinne in the chest, apparently with a .45-caliber pistol" = AK-47?
Terror
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You guys are absolutely right - it says .45 caliber pistol.
But you know what? Yesterday it said "AK-47 assault rifle". I swear to God.
That is interesting - news sources can now update or 'change' their stories on the fly. When I originally linked to the article, it said the story was only 2 hours old.
I don't see how anybody could mistake a .45 caliber pistol for an AK-47. I understand he had a pickup full of weapons so maybe thats where the confusion arose.
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typical hiddenagendamainstreamliberal pressbullshirt.
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Originally posted by storch
typical hiddenagendamainstreamliberal pressbullshirt.
??? You mean the media is biased and has it's own agenda???? But...but.... how can we trust them then?
What??? You mean the government has it's own agenda??? But...but.... (you know the rest)
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I would really like to know why the story was changed. I shoulda cut and pasted it I guess.
Doesn't matter to me whether it was a handgun, assault rifle, or shotgun. I guess the parent really made his point to the coach. I wonder if he thinks his son will make first string now?
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people kill people... they do it with guns or knives or fists or whatever.
Two points.
I would like to shoot back and... when it is done with a knife it isn't even on the news but... when it is done with a 100 year old design of a pistol it is spread all over the news as another madman with an AK47 assault rifle on the rampage.
I guess that is what curval has to bite his lip over... that or there was no pillow at the motel.
lazs
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This story is a two yolk egg for the media because they get to publicize a shooting AND a crazy sports parent. Does it really make a difference to the antigun crowd whether it was a handgun or an assault rifle? They are after both aren't they?
This man was apparently well-known for fits of rage/uncontrollable temper (and I mean he had been in a hospital with broken leg/injuries due to a road rage incident he had been involved in, and he had also been banned from the school grounds for his continuing behavior problems).
How do you feel about a man like that owning any kind of gun - be it assault or hunting rifle, shotgun, or hand gun?
Laz, do you think you would've had time to draw and shoot back? And if you had, how long do you think it would be before madman simply turn to sniping rather than direct confrontation?
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oboe... I don't know if I would have had time to draw and fire if he were after me. I do know that if he weren't after me then I would have time to shoot before he could get a second shot.... at ANYONE. He would know that too.
I would hope that if I weren't carrying that someone in the crowd was. I would also suggest that if the madman KNEW that there was a chance that someone in the crowd would shoot him...
he would be slightly less... "mad".
I would also contend that if he was to plan out a sniping attack (he could have done that in this case) then there really is no gun law that would prevent him from doing so.
fortunately, sniping is not something that a lot of people are angry or crazy enough to do.
I believe that the fact that schools disarm everyone gives this guy a sense of power and control that he would not have if he knew he would face armed men or women... I think he would just bite his lip like curval and simmer down.
I think no guns policies in schools cause a lot of the problem.
lazs
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I think under that new Florida law that this would qualify as a justified shooting.
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it's amazing what can occur when parents want to live vicariously through their children. at a karate tournament last year in St. Petersburg my son was competing against a very talented athlete. I thought both boys were doing well, both were nationally ranked and had never fought each other before. the opposing boy apparently dispatched most of his opponents in very few moves. while my son was losing, the other kid was having a hard time of it and his father who was standing ringside was becoming increasingly agitated. he was litterally convulsing and he was wearing an uncle mike's fanny pack. I stepped from the bleacher seats and stood directly behind him about 18" away and stayed there. the guy was so intent on the coaching the match that he was unaware of my presense. my son lost the bout and took second place in his division so all was well with Mr. karate dad. I called the police and reported a concealed weapon at the sporting event, a no-no for concealed carry in Florida IIRC. the police never came in the additional hour that we remained at the event. had he moved to touch the zipper on the fanny pack I would have broken his neck.
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If the bloke hadn't got an AK47 in the first place he would have probably only been able to yell swear curse and then punch the hell out of the HS coach. All piss poor parental behaviour that I've witnessed at Football matches between youth groups that I run. But at least the HS coach would still have been alive eh?
Nuff said.
( Now cue the customary you're a studmuffin jibe from Jackal or Lazs;) :lol )
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Its amazing how the AP story keeps changing - now they are saying he was caught in the woods with two guns and a pocket knife, with self-inflicted knife wounds on his wrists and thigh --
no more mention of the pickup full of guns. Its possible that the two guns included an handgun and an AK-47, maybe that's where some of the confusion lies.
Laz, I see your point about someone else armed in the crowd taking him down even if you aren't able to.
Skydancer, AFAIK the coach survived and is inthe hospital. Must be one hell of a guy to survive a .45 round to the chest...
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He was Lucky.
The argument still stands.
As for someone else in the crowd taking him out!!!!
Purlease. gunfight at the OK corral this is not!
:lol
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You obviously haven't learned much from your participation in previous gun threads.
How long before we hear your standard complaints about how you've been abused by other posters?
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Originally posted by Skydancer
He was Lucky.
The argument still stands.
As for someone else in the crowd taking him out!!!!
Purlease. gunfight at the OK corral this is not!
:lol
Its an interesting point. Real life aint like the movies. Suppose you do have a concealed carry permit and happen to be at a spot where trouble occurs. Odds are, it'll happen very quickly - you migh even be looking in a different direction, mind concerned with whatever matters brought you there that day.
You hear men arguing. Suddenly, a loud "pop" or "crack". Was that a gunshot you heard? You wheel around, see a man lying on the ground in a pool of blood. Do you see a crazy man standing over him in a trance waving an AK-47? Probably not. More likely, you see a couple people kneeling by the guy, and others laying on the ground on the bellies, hands over the heads. Women scream. Others hurrying quickly away from the incident. You unholster your gun but who do you shoot?
Worse, another pistol carrier is a half a second behind you in comprehending what's happened. He sees you standing with your gun drawn, scanning the fleeing crowd. Maybe he draws and plugs you, maybe not.
Plausible, realistic scenario?
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Originally posted by oboe
Plausible, realistic scenario?
Here's a plausible realistic one for you; it happened in Tyler, Texas on 25 Feb.
The other victim, Mark Alan Wilson, 52, was credited by authorities with saving the life of David Hernandez Arroyo Jr., who was listed in fair condition at a hospital with leg wounds....
... "One of the deputies at the scene said if it hadn't been for Mr. Wilson," said Sheriff J.B. Smith, "the son would be dead."....
.....Wilson, a gun enthusiast who once owned a shooting range, intervened after Arroyo killed his ex-wife, witnesses said. Swindle, the police chief, said Wilson shot at Arroyo several times but his rounds weren't penetrating the armor. ...
Sadly, Wilson died trying to stop Hernandez, but he is credited with saving the kid's life.
Plausible and realistic enough for you?
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Originally posted by Skydancer
If the bloke hadn't got an AK47 in the first place he would have probably only been able to yell swear curse and then punch the hell out of the HS coach. All piss poor parental behaviour that I've witnessed at Football matches between youth groups that I run. But at least the HS coach would still have been alive eh?
Nuff said.
( Now cue the customary you're a studmuffin jibe from Jackal or Lazs;) :lol )
Or as in the case in Reading, MA a few years back, the father could have just beat the Hockey coach to death with his bare hands by slamming his head repeatedly against the concrete floor, in front of the Coach's children and an arena full of parents and kids.
And the Hockey coach died, not from a gun, but from a parent's bare hands.
Nuff said.
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skyprancer.... it wasn't an AK47... and so far as the OK corral... You do realize that 2/3 of all school shootings were stopped by an armed civilian?
lazs
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Originally posted by oboe
You guys are absolutely right - it says .45 caliber pistol.
But you know what? Yesterday it said "AK-47 assault rifle". I swear to God.
That is interesting - news sources can now update or 'change' their stories on the fly. When I originally linked to the article, it said the story was only 2 hours old.
I don't see how anybody could mistake a .45 caliber pistol for an AK-47. I understand he had a pickup full of weapons so maybe thats where the confusion arose.
I was watching it live on CNN as they found the kid in the woods and arrested him. The announcers and the text under the screen kept refereing to the weapon as both an "assault rifle" and then an AK-47.
When I sat down to watch the 10:00 news , it had changed to a .45 calber pistol.
I guess the news media was just salivating at another chance to inform the general public of the dangers of "assault weapons."
As someone earlier posted, arming a few of the teachers would lead to a lot less of these "school shootings."
Why do these whack-jobs always choose "weapon-free" zones (ie, post-office, schools, etc.) to try and commit mass murder? When was the last time you heard of someone trying to shoot a bunch of people at a police station or army base?
Just like the opinions in another thread, teachers that are willing to go thru qualification and training, and/or that have CCW permits, should be allowed to exercise their 2nd ammendmnet rights while at school. To me, the signs that say "Wepon-free Zone" are the same as telling all the nut cases out there "TARGET RICH ENVIRONMENT - and you won't get hurt!"
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But didnt all this happen in a gun free school zone? How did the evil gun get into the gun free school zone. We obviously need more laws.
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Originally posted by Toad
Here's a plausible realistic one for you; it happened in Tyler, Texas on 25 Feb.
Sadly, Wilson died trying to stop Hernandez, but he is credited with saving the kid's life.
Plausible and realistic enough for you?
Tragically, yes. I hope more are like yours than mine, though I'm sorry the defender lost his life; its not clear whether the assailant did.
Your example points out another problem - this occured in Texas, where I assume CCW laws are well in place. Thus, the perp had reason to believe he could be confronted in his crime by another gun owner. So he took extra precautions and donned a bullet proof vest, apparently. So now perhaps CCW permit holders should likewise wear bulletproof vests?
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Originally posted by oboe
Tragically, yes. I hope more are like yours than mine, though I'm sorry the defender lost his life; its not clear whether the assailant did.
Your example points out another problem - this occured in Texas, where I assume CCW laws are well in place. Thus, the perp had reason to believe he could be confronted in his crime by another gun owner. So he took extra precautions and donned a bullet proof vest, apparently. So now perhaps CCW permit holders should likewise wear bulletproof vests?
I can't speak for others but I practice double taps to head from 25 yards. do they have head armor?
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Oboe,
What about the Hockey Coach? What should he have worn to protect himself against his assailants bare hands?
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I think the body armor will just cause a shift in training.
Instead of DT's to center of mass, the bar will be raised and it'll be DT's to the head.
Which, when you think about it, is probably all for the best.
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Originally posted by lazs2
skyprancer.... it wasn't an AK47... and so far as the OK corral... You do realize that 2/3 of all school shootings were stopped by an armed civilian?
lazs
Personnaly I don't know.
In fact even if I can translate "school shootings" the concept implied by "school shootings" doesn't exist in France.
In fact the whole "XXXXXX shootings" simply don't exist.
I now we are decadent.
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String, the only option is to ban hands, of course.
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Toad Let me ask you this?
Is it that you simply can't bear to hear someone express a point of view other than the dominant one?
Or would you be happier if I simply agreed with everything that you and others say. Would it help to make you feel all wise and superior? I can oblidge if you like but I fear that it would be somewhat sycophantic and boreing.
Personaly to me it seems that your nation has a serious homicide problem. The figures speak for themselves. You have to be very obtuse and seriously misguided to not see the link between that and the total prevalence of gun culture, from ownership to the glamourisation in hollywood and so on. America is in love with guns and has one of the highest homicide rates in the developed world. Coincedence?
If you are happy with that fine. Personaly I think you are mad.
The fact that I live in a country with a relatively low murder rate, and there are few guns in the hands of citizens pleases me no end. Its very liberating not having to worry whether the bad guy is wielding an assault rifle or handgun. I'm happy with that.
Is that OK with you or would you like me to lie and agree with you Lazs and the others.
If you don't want to have an open mind fine. But don't expect me or others to shut up because it doesn't fit your view of things. What is the point of starting a thread if the thread starter is not expecting people to contribute? What is this a mutual appreciation society for people who all think the same or a bulletin board? Think about it?:rolleyes:
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skydancer, picking up a gun will NOT give you a urge to shoot someone anymore than getting behind the wheel of a car will fill you with a urge to run someone over...
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Actually I try to reasonable, see both sides of the argument, weigh opinion vs evidence, etc. And I don't think banning guns is the answer.
I don't deny Skydancer's statistics, and agree America loves guns. But I still don't mind any law-abiding, responsible citizen owning or carrying firearms.
I think there problem lies in Americans themselves. For example, look at Stringers post about the death of the hockey coach. Beaten to death. In frint of people.
What has made Americans so violent and homicidal?
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Oboe maybe you have a point.
Violence is a problem here too but I happen to think it better to have fewer guns in a violent society. A Violent man with a gun is more lethal than a violent man without one.
Just makes sense to me.
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Originally posted by Skydancer
Is it that you simply can't bear to hear someone express a point of view other than the dominant one?
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No, actually I can't bear to read ridiculous points of view, particularly when the poster contradicts himself in the same post.
For example someone posting that "guns are only for killing" and then saying how he had a good time shooting clay targets with one.
Further, I can't bear see the Reich Minister of Propaganda's saying come true. You know, "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it."
So, I generally respond when I see someone posting the same old... balderdash.. (is that the polite euphemism?).
A good example of this would be someone continually postulating that what works in a small country with a essentially uniform population will work just the same in a country many times larger and with a far more diverse population.
For example saying that solutions that work for an island country with a land mass of 88,788 square miles, a population of 58,789,194 will work in a country with a land mass of 3,539,224 sq miles and a population of 290,809,777. Where ONE state alone, California has a land mass of 156,000 square miles and a population of 35,484,453.
Or would you be happier if I simply agreed with everything that you and others say.
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You should feel free to voice your opinion. However, you need to understand that EVERYONE here has that option. Many Euros seem to think that once they voice THEIR opinion, everyone else should keep silent.
It doesn't work that way, as I'm sure you know.
You're free to post anything you like. You should EXPECT that some will challenge what you post and post THEIR opinion.
Personaly to me it seems that your nation has a serious homicide problem.
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I haven't seen anyone here deny that.
America is in love with guns and has one of the highest homicide rates in the developed world.
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We do have gun culture. We do have a high homicide rate.
However, the idea that using UK gun controls will change that is not a given. In fact, it's likely it would make things worse.
There are several reasons for this and all of them have been discussed enough here. Suffice it to say we have always had a violent culture and the UK has not. Perhaps those two facts have their roots in the past. After all, the droit de signeur never really existed here. Some cultures are more passive than others.
The fact that I live in a country with a relatively low murder rate, and there are few guns in the hands of citizens pleases me no end.
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As it should. You should realize, although I'm sure you don't, that that happy circumstance has more to do with the nature of your population than your gun laws. You have a historically polite society, where historically the common man was not armed and subservient to authority and you are not very ethnically diverse.
Review the crime rates/homicides in the small areas of your country that are ethnically diverse to see the difference that makes.
Its very liberating not having to worry whether the bad guy is wielding an assault rifle or handgun. I'm happy with that.
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I find it very liberating not worrying about "bad guys" at all. I don't.
But don't expect me or others to shut up because it doesn't fit your view of things.
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Physician, heal thyself. Don't expect me or Laz to shut up because it doesn't fit your view of things. It's that "free speech" thing that so few of you Euros seem to understand.
What is this a mutual appreciation society for people who all think the same or a bulletin board? Think about it?:rolleyes:
Think about this. That is apparently what YOU want this to be.
I rarely if ever start these "gun" threads but I will contribute when the horse doobers start spewing from UK keyboards such as yours.
I will ALWAYS contribute. Get used to it; it's that "free speech" thing.
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Toad I don't expect you to shut up.
And for the record I believe you address the points and debate them. Others use the excuse to flame ad bait!
No maybe our rules will not work over there but it seems that your gOvt ought to take a serious look at the problem you have. From what I can see the NRA determines govt policy in the states.
As for Britain having a uniform population I think the European, African, Caribean, Australian, Indian, Bangladeshi, Pakistani, Middle Eastern, Balkan, Eastern European, American, and Irish residents of our Island might have a different view.
Remember we once had an empire until fighting the Second world war bankrupted us ( all part of the American plan? ) And many of the people's of that empire have been coming here since the 16th Century and before. We are a very ethnicaly diverse lot in this country. So i don't think that has anything to do with it.
I think your problem ( you as in americas nowt personal here) is that you have a love of guns and violence embedded in your history. Your history is relatively young as a nation and your nation was forged by war and violence only recently. Maybe culturaly you are still suffering from the hangover of that.
Also maybe that is why most european nations do not support your Govts millitary adventuring. Unlike your nation most countries in europe know full well what violence and guns can do. Still just in living memory we suffered as people from the most devastating war yet seen. Its a relatively fresh memory. It maybe allows us to have a little more empathy with those whose countries become the playgrounds for generals and ruled by men with guns. And that empathy means we've no desire to see what happened to us all inflicted on others. Britain and Russia was bankrupted and much of Europe destroyed. The only nation who benefited from WW2 was the US. Your people suffered no bombing destruction of their homes familiess industry and livelehoods. You have no experience of that so you continue to love your guns, think it OK to impose your model of the world on other nations and act as if nothing will happen to you. Europeans know what a society awash with guns is realy like and have a very negative experience of it.
( a different take on the issue maybe, but less valid? )
Ok rant over thanks for reading. You are a gent Mr Toad I honestly can't say the same for the others you mention.
Ok Semi Hijacking over!:aok
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Originally posted by Furball
maybe he felt threatened so it was ok
not even gonna read this thread any further. lmao good one!
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skyprancer... you are a socialist country who has allways had a low crime rate and high taxes and low median income...
You say that your laws make you safer but your crime rate is very high... you say that not being able to do something is "freedom" to quote one of your countrymen "slavery is freedom"
We can eliminate homicides and most crime here... we have the perfect model... the old soviet union was a paradise of the government protecting it's people from themselves....
ours is the complete oppossite... yours is somewhere in between.
I wouldn't even think of living in england but I love liveing in America. I want more freedom tho... not less.
and raider... I think you are mostly wrong on fireams ideas... I am not picking one you but I do think that it is worth discussing them with you and that you are capabel of seeing other sides of the issue. I am one of those guys that you talk about that would show you my firearms and be proud of them... If you wanted to see em... I would also be glad to take you out shooting and show you some things about guns and gun safety.
Problem is... the guys like me are getting harder to find... with the new antio gun climate people get to shoot less and are restricted more so have lost some of the desire to even go through all the red tape and negative attitudes.
lazs
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this is the perfect example of the media bias against guns (obviously) and.... the perfect example of hysterical gun control laws making things worse..
gun free zone? yeah... for anyone who could have been of help...
assault rifle ban? what assault rifle? even a .45 auto ban wouldn't have helped... he could just as easily have used a cap and ball .44 blackpowder gun that you can buy without any real regulation... it would have worked as well or better for the intended purpose.
For you gun control advocates... What kind of law would have prevented this shooting?
lazs
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Originally posted by Skydancer
but it seems that your gOvt ought to take a serious look at the problem you have.
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As if they are not. Our homicide rates have been steadily falling over the last decade or two. The solution has been to punish the criminals. How very, very clever, eh? Instead of punishing the law abiding citizens, punish the criminals! BRILLIANT, don't you think?
From what I can see the NRA determines govt policy in the states.
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Which just shows how distorted your view is. Not your fault, you probably form your opinions from what mainstream media tells you.
As for Britain having a uniform population I think the European, African, Caribean, Australian, Indian, Bangladeshi, Pakistani, Middle Eastern, Balkan, Eastern European, American, and Irish residents of our Island might have a different view.
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92% white is your idea of diverse? Excuse me, that's too funny.
From 2001, your own government stats:
(http://www.statistics.gov.uk/images/charts/273.gif)
Sorry, old bean... you clearly have no idea of diversity.
the Second world war bankrupted us ( all part of the American plan? )
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Oh yes.. we secretly hate you and wish you ill.
This is an idiotic comment; it deserves a vulgar insult. Instead, I'll try to remain polite.
You doubt it, go visit the American military cemeteries that dot your lovely country. Go to St. Paul's in London and visit the American Memorial Chapel.
Also maybe that is why most european nations do not support your Govts millitary adventuring. Unlike your nation most countries in europe know full well what violence and guns can do.
[/b]
I'd hope so. You lot have brought the entire world to war twice in the last 100 years.
What we also learned is that doing a Chamberlain and ignoring a growing evil doesn't work.
You folks seem to want to Neville your way around again.
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Originally posted by lazs2
and raider... I think you are mostly wrong on fireams ideas... I am not picking one you but I do think that it is worth discussing them with you and that you are capabel of seeing other sides of the issue. I am one of those guys that you talk about that would show you my firearms and be proud of them... If you wanted to see em... I would also be glad to take you out shooting and show you some things about guns and gun safety.
Problem is... the guys like me are getting harder to find... with the new antio gun climate people get to shoot less and are restricted more so have lost some of the desire to even go through all the red tape and negative attitudes.
lazs
Ummm if you didnt notice I live in Georgia do you really think I don't know how to use a gun or about gun safety? lmao
You just can't counter the things I say about guns so you use questions and vague statements. I am never about getting rid of guns sorry if thats what you think. I just get tired of hearing about shootings every friggin day. We had a cop get shot here last night by someone's parent. Cop never got a shot off. Guess having a gun on you doesnt always help ya.
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Not trying to sidestep the forum rules, the truth is your posts are just crap, Zulu.
You need to have your brain extracted and put into at least one other countryman's skull for about a lifetime (starting with an american's) before you'll start getting a clue..
Arguing as a means of learning just isn't a function of yours.
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"You lot have brought the entire world to war twice in the last 100 years."
And as a result we seem to have learned more by the experience than the US govt has!
( though Mr "nose up Bush bum Blair has not!")
We'll just have to try vote him out!
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What you learned is that even though Neville Chamberlain was proven incredibly wrong, you are all willing (or perhaps foolish enough) to give his theories one more try.
Your collective "learning" is what makes the UN totally ineffective.
What WE learned is that if we try isolationism like we did after the first world war of yours, we'll get dragged into yet another one.
Far better for us to be proactive than isolationist, although isolationism is my particular choice.
No comments about your "diversity"? I thought not. :rofl
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Originally posted by Skydancer
No maybe our rules will not work over there but it seems that your gOvt ought to take a serious look at the problem you have. From what I can see the NRA determines govt policy in the states.
Geez Louise, here we go with the same lame crap.
Why do you think restrictions for concealed carry is slowly, but surely loosening up? You think our "gOvt", as you put it, is just throwing these ideas around because they are bored?
The NRA is the voice of a group of very determined and very freedom minded people. Nothing more , nothing less.
Is it the freedom to have such organizations that bothers you?
Once again, you should spend more time worrying about your country and your government. Let us deal with our country. You have no voice and no input into the workings of our country.
As far as this incident goes....This should have been dealt with and taken care of way before it came to this point. The guy in question had a long, ongoing conflict with this coach for some time. He had assaulted and confronted the coach on numerous occasions before the shooting.
One thing that I found very revealing while this was going on was the fact that out of all the law enforcement personel that were on or nearby the scene that had been called in, it was Channel 4 that located the man`s truck and notified law enforcement.
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raider.. I have no idea how you feel about guns or how much gun safefy you are aware of except by what you post. You seem reasonable to me but I can't help but wonder where you get your ideas.
You say I am vague.. I don't mean to be.. I am usually fairly outspoken and clear. You seem a little vague to me tho... statements like "rgulations need to be tightened" and "something has to be done" and "get tired of hearing of shootings every friggin day"
soo... What regulatins need to be tightened and how? How will these tightened regulations solve any of the gun vilolence mentioned in any post in this thread?
You are getting tired of hearing of gun violence? do you get tired of hearing of drownings or stabbings or motorcycle deaths? Do you think it possible, especially in light of this thread, that the media may be using yu a tad bit? Playing to your emotions with some anto gun yellow journalism? Lotts book "the bias against guns" is a good source of info on the media.
I don't like to see people killed or accidents happen but it is the price of living in Amercia and I wouldn't have it any other way. I will concede your point tho if you can come up with a plan that doesn't infringe on law abiding citizens rights and lowers crime and homicides.
lazs
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laz,
what would you think about having the gun ownership rights of violent people revoked? People like the guy above, who was a well known hothead in his community and had been banned from the school grounds. Is that going too far, in your opinion?
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Here is the deal... if he is a criminal then his rights should be revolked so long as he is in prison or on parole... when he has done his time he deserves to have his rights restored. if he is too violent to have gun rights then he is too violent to be out amoung us.
so far as "violent people" .... in whose opinion? Is a person who has been in a fight with his spouse a "violent person"? is someone who gets into a fistfight with an obnoxious person a "violent person"? who decides and what are the parameters. I do not agree with the "domestic violence" parameter for instance. Even a lot of cops are in danger of losing their gun rights over that one. What good is a ban? wasn't he "banned" from the school grounds in any case?
This to me is like taking away a drivers licence on a domestic violence conviction.... too much chance for abuse and mistake.
It is a sad thing that once in a while in our country of 300 million that things like this happen but it is hysterical to go on a banning spree that has the potential to bring on far more harm than good.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
so far as "violent people" .... in whose opinion? Is a person who has been in a fight with his spouse a "violent person"? is someone who gets into a fistfight with an obnoxious person a "violent person"? who decides and what are the parameters. I do not agree with the "domestic violence" parameter for instance. Even a lot of cops are in danger of losing their gun rights over that one.
Yes , yes and yes.
How can you still trust a cop who is acting violent at home ?
Except if I mistranslated "domestic violence" I don't see why a cop would be autorized to be violent in his home.
Concerning the revocation of driver licence I don't know for the US but here it's a sanction like others,the sanction don't have to please the criminal.
It just have to punish.
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Originally posted by lazs2
...This to me is like taking away a drivers licence on a domestic violence conviction....too much chance for abuse and mistake.
Conviction = face your accuser, evidence, jury of your peers, fifth amendment, counsel, etc.
Jail has just the same chance for mistake.
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Originally posted by lazs2
raider.. I have no idea how you feel about guns or how much gun safefy you are aware of except by what you post. You seem reasonable to me but I can't help but wonder where you get your ideas.
You say I am vague.. I don't mean to be.. I am usually fairly outspoken and clear. You seem a little vague to me tho... statements like "rgulations need to be tightened" and "something has to be done" and "get tired of hearing of shootings every friggin day"
soo... What regulatins need to be tightened and how? How will these tightened regulations solve any of the gun vilolence mentioned in any post in this thread?
You are getting tired of hearing of gun violence? do you get tired of hearing of drownings or stabbings or motorcycle deaths? Do you think it possible, especially in light of this thread, that the media may be using yu a tad bit? Playing to your emotions with some anto gun yellow journalism? Lotts book "the bias against guns" is a good source of info on the media.
I don't like to see people killed or accidents happen but it is the price of living in Amercia and I wouldn't have it any other way. I will concede your point tho if you can come up with a plan that doesn't infringe on law abiding citizens rights and lowers crime and homicides.
lazs
I posted some of laws that need work in the other thread.
Tell you the truth laz I don't know that tightening them will do anything but I Do know that the way it is right now is not working.
as for the media I am no anti-gun advocate so no. I just think they are too easily acquired and that most people who have them do not keep them secured properly.
I don't have a plan but I do think that becoming more heavily armed with bigger and more powerful weapons is the wrong way to go.
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Originally posted by lazs2
I do not agree with the "domestic violence" parameter for instance. Even a lot of cops are in danger of losing their gun rights over that one.
This to me is like taking away a drivers licence on a domestic violence conviction.... too much chance for abuse and mistake.
It is a sad thing that once in a while in our country of 300 million that things like this happen but it is hysterical to go on a banning spree that has the potential to bring on far more harm than good.
lazs
Actually I think if you look at domestic violence how it relates to shootings of the spouse after they get out of jail, seems like a very wise law. As for the cops, good. I don't want any law enforcement that gets off work and goes home and beats on the old lady.
When you break the law you have consequences. Don't break the law and you have nothing to get banned. Simple.
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well... maybe I am looking at this all wrong but... seems to me that if you beat up "the old lady" you need to go to jail.... not have your drivers licence suspended or gun rights revolked.
This all seems like cruel and unusual punishmet to me. I don't care how many studies say that wife beaters shoot people... if you believe the studies so much then let's put wife beaters in prison for life or execute em. You want to take away their second amendment rights because of some studies?
raider.... I am not talking about arming anyone who does not desire to be armed. Only about 10% of people would even bother and they are a very law abiding bunch...
your way... tighter bans and regulation got us school shootings and skyjackings. Allowing more CC holders got us lower crime rates.
lazs