Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: humble on April 10, 2005, 12:58:47 PM
-
I'm getting a bit tired of the miraculous formation flying buffs do....
close formation flying was very very dangerous and the fatality rate in training was very high...both stateside and in england. I think buffs need to collide if the lead exceeds certain limitations (at least some of the time)...
If you doubt what I'm saying...just read "Wings of Morning" or any thing similiar...
-
if something is done, just imagine the whines...
WD
-
I know about this first hand from the mouth of a b17 flight engineer. I was doing his unit patches for some glass artwork and we got into discussion about his tour in ww2. He told me..."forming up in formation in dense fog was the hardest and most terrifying times of the mission. In fact flying in fog and forming up coupled with training accidents far exceeded fatalities due to enemy fire. You didn't hear about it because it would have been a morale killer to the folks at home".
-
That's why you only have 2 other highly skilled pilots in your formation :)
-
SPQR, that may have been true in late 1944 and 1945. But 1942 and 1943 are different stories.
-
My suggestions on bombers may not have too much merit due to the fact I don't use them.
I would however like to see them used in a somewhat historical manner, but that's me. The dive bombing B17's and Lanc's dropping their ord at 100' off the deck is sheer insanaity. I guess this is "gaming" the game as I've been told. It's the right of the player I guess and it is his/her $15.
It would just be nice IMO to not have bombers carpet bomb a target at 100' off the ground just so they can get a kill out of desperation. This is just my opinion, I'm sure the bomber guys think otherwise, but that's ok too.
My 2 cents
-
Originally posted by MOIL
My suggestions on bombers may not have too much merit due to the fact I don't use them.
I would however like to see them used in a somewhat historical manner, but that's me. The dive bombing B17's and Lanc's dropping their ord at 100' off the deck is sheer insanaity. I guess this is "gaming" the game as I've been told. It's the right of the player I guess and it is his/her $15.
It would just be nice IMO to not have bombers carpet bomb a target at 100' off the ground just so they can get a kill out of desperation. This is just my opinion, I'm sure the bomber guys think otherwise, but that's ok too.
My 2 cents
And your take on spawncamping?.......
-
I believe that a few things would greatly improve gameplay with respect to buffs:
1) A new model of how buffs join up allowing for more latitude on takeoff, currently its too easy to lose your formations.
2) A more workable formation system with respect manuevering. The current system causes a really bad looking 'position jump' causing a nasty rip in simulated reality. Happens when the lead bomber is falling to the ground or when it is doing an extreme manuever. Im not sure what the coding issue is, but hopefully it can be corrected soon.
3) A less 'rigid' formation, where under normal climb/cruise the bombers varry in relation to each other a bit...right now we seem to have the Thunderbirds flying bomber formations. Wouldnt hurt to have a few formation choices either.
-
To answer Waffle:
I myself don't like that either, ask anyone who knows me. I know some of my guys show up at TT or the middle furball Island and blast away at each other. In this scenario a lil spawn camping is normal {I think} However, If one is trying to defend his field or city and "protects" the spawn to keep GV's from coming in I don't see any problem with it.
Bombers usually show up sooner or later to remove the threat, this is fine too. The only complaint I have with it is, the bombers are a lot of time 20' off the deck dropping 48 bombs on one GV :rolleyes: then call "us" tards ?
I guess you have to do what ya have to do
-
dont mean to go OT here, but only allowing bombs to be dropped from the Bombadier position in the heavys would cure that IMO,
and eliminate being able to drop eggs from external view
-
Originally posted by Cooley
dont mean to go OT here, but only allowing bombs to be dropped from the Bombadier position in the heavys would cure that IMO
Nice idea
-
Mobil,
You cant bomb at 20' agl or 50' agl or 100' agl -
Two things happen when you are too low:
1 - your bombs dont arm - ie dont explode
2 - they arm and explode too close and kill the bomber
Personally, when I am in Lancs and bombing tanks (a personal favorite thing to do), I gotta get some dropped when I'm seeing the TIGR or PNZR at 600 or so.
And you really need to try flying some buff formations to get a feeling for how frustrating it can be. They dont synch up well, its a pain to manuver, good fighters can kill you fast.
I drive tanks a lot and buffs who can kill tanks are my greatest threats. When a spawn gets camped - after 200 or 300 deaths - ill up some lancs to bust it up ;) My best drop was 3 PNZRs and 1 TIGR in a single salvo of 1 from three planes - they were packed in a bit too tight for their own good - lol.
Anyhow enjoy,
Snak
-
SunTracker - Your exactly correct! He was late war! I think he said in England, fall of '44- til end.
-
Originally posted by SunTracker
SPQR, that may have been true in late 1944 and 1945. But 1942 and 1943 are different stories.
Not true at all, stateside deaths in training were very high...so were losses during "orientation" in england....it was very difficult to fly buffs in formation....
-
I agree, the bomber guys that swoop in at 100 feet ruin the buff role in the game.
Before everyone goes into their rant about limiting how they can drop bombs and on what, recall its just a few gaming the game. Other planes have other issues. La7s are the scourge of this game and head-on dweebs rule the roost ;)
-
Originally posted by MOIL
To answer Waffle:
I myself don't like that either, ask anyone who knows me. I know some of my guys show up at TT or the middle furball Island and blast away at each other. In this scenario a lil spawn camping is normal {I think} However, If one is trying to defend his field or city and "protects" the spawn to keep GV's from coming in I don't see any problem with it.
Bombers usually show up sooner or later to remove the threat, this is fine too. The only complaint I have with it is, the bombers are a lot of time 20' off the deck dropping 48 bombs on one GV :rolleyes: then call "us" tards ?
I guess you have to do what ya have to do
lol lol 1 problem bombs need 500ft min to go boom boom in ah2. and if you think in real life they didn't bomb from low alt Watch Jimmy stewarts gun cameras films. he was well known for making low bombruns
-
Maybe so, but it wasn't the norm I don't think.
Oh well, bomb on!
-
They did alot of low level bombing, I remember seeing alot of pics from B26s dropping high drag bombs on the deck in the Pacific.
As the story goes, if the chute for each egg didn't deploy properly they had to quickly pull up and out or their own egg would take them out.
-
5th AF B17s of the 43rd BG pioneered skip bombing in17 against Japanese shipping.
5th AF Mediums, mainly A20s and B25s employed "parafrags" for hitting airstrips. These were bombs attached to parachutes that slowed the drop allowing the buffs to get away from the blast.
B24s, also in the Pacific, did low level work as well. Many of these were Navy birds out on their own attacking shipping and targets of opportunity..
Not sure where the Jimmy Stewart comment came from. He was a 24 pilot with the 8th, and he wasn't flying low level stuff, and he wouldn't have had gun camera films from a 24.
Dan/CorkyJr
-
I'd like to see some incentive in the game to up Buffs en masse. At the moment we only get the odd one or three over the tgt. It would be good to see big raids with escort etc. Proper air battles. Maybe the towns need to be bigger and strat tgs more worthwhile to hit.
-
Originally posted by Skydancer
I'd like to see some incentive in the game to up Buffs en masse. At the moment we only get the odd one or three over the tgt. It would be good to see big raids with escort etc. Proper air battles. Maybe the towns need to be bigger and strat tgs more worthwhile to hit.
right now, theres no real targets for buffs
strat does very very little to the game, and it repairs too fast.
im mean im sure, get the city to 0%, then the troop training to 0% and it takes 2 hours for barracks/supplys to repair, but by the time you've bombed the city(s) to 0%, and the troop training to 0% the city is sometimes ALREADY building up
HQ raids used to be worth while, but now they repair in 5minutes.
why should it take a buff formation 2 hours and alot of escorts to kill the now ultra hard HQ, for only 5-10goons to totaly repair it?
strat targets need a total rework. they need to stay down/damaged longer, or/and have more effect. Ie if the troop training is totaly down, how comes the local supply at the fields is totaly fine? Same for fuel strat (which is now a useless target) if thats down to 0% why is the fields still 125%?
n small maps cos theres only 1 "zone" which makes it slightly easier but on maps with many zones its almost imposible to do any "damage" to the other side by bombing there strat targets.
this is why you see buffs doing gamey things, because theres no other use for them.
since maps last almost a week these days i think strat targets should stay down for a DAY.... ie if on the first day of the war, all rooks cities for an example are put down to 0%, then it STAYS that way for a day. serves them right for not defending them.
HQ if totaly down should be unsupplyable...and the return of partial damage to HQ will allow resupply, if its 3/4 damage it can be repaired like today, with 5-10 goons. if its totaly down done by a well planned, large raid which wasnt intercepted, it should STAY down till it auto rebuilds.
-
Originally posted by humble
I'm getting a bit tired of the miraculous formation flying buffs do....
The shape of things to come?
-
Skip and dive bombing in 4 engine buffs was done....not often...but there is historical record. All I'm commenting on is the relatively hi G formation evasives, manuevers etc...
Now having more of a spread formation that effects both bombing accuracy and gunnery till they the formation tightens up might work as well....
From what I've read they did fly very tight formations on final....its the 4G turns that are a problem:)
-
Originally posted by Overlag
right now, theres no real targets for buffs
strat does very very little to the game, and it repairs too fast.
im mean im sure, get the city to 0%, then the troop training to 0% and it takes 2 hours for barracks/supplys to repair, but by the time you've bombed the city(s) to 0%, and the troop training to 0% the city is sometimes ALREADY building up
HQ raids used to be worth while, but now they repair in 5minutes.
why should it take a buff formation 2 hours and alot of escorts to kill the now ultra hard HQ, for only 5-10goons to totaly repair it?
strat targets need a total rework. they need to stay down/damaged longer, or/and have more effect. Ie if the troop training is totaly down, how comes the local supply at the fields is totaly fine? Same for fuel strat (which is now a useless target) if thats down to 0% why is the fields still 125%?
n small maps cos theres only 1 "zone" which makes it slightly easier but on maps with many zones its almost imposible to do any "damage" to the other side by bombing there strat targets.
this is why you see buffs doing gamey things, because theres no other use for them.
since maps last almost a week these days i think strat targets should stay down for a DAY.... ie if on the first day of the war, all rooks cities for an example are put down to 0%, then it STAYS that way for a day. serves them right for not defending them.
HQ if totaly down should be unsupplyable...and the return of partial damage to HQ will allow resupply, if its 3/4 damage it can be repaired like today, with 5-10 goons. if its totaly down done by a well planned, large raid which wasnt intercepted, it should STAY down till it auto rebuilds.
It is to my understanding that the strategic targets used to be alot more important, but due to subsiquent complaining by the loosing side they met the same fate as the night time in AH2, and their impact was lessend to what they are today. :(
-
That is not necessarily true daddyack. There wasn't anything done to strat factories making them less important. There are problems with certain maps where the strats don't work correctly and the supplies never really get where they are going. As for HQ, it used to be the case that if it were partially destroyed you couldn't resupply it. I think that has since changed. I do disagree that destroying HQ has no affect, the last time it was down for about 30 mins while we resupplied it, and it was a pain in the butt to fly without dar.
I will stand firm on the decision to handle the fuel porking. That was one of the best decisions I've seen. I wish they would make troop and FH porking harder. That would give the Buff guys some incentive to aim the bombs as they fly over instead of just hitting the button as fast as they can.
-
What about getting fast jabo aircraft (IE 190) and bonb the troop strats at nearby resupply fields have have a wave of buffs bonb the HQ? That should kill the resupply efforts and at least create some havoc.
-
I believe that if you level the refinery for that zone it should affect the surrounding fields, samr goes with troops or amunition. That is just my opinion.
-
if the two otto-drones bother you just wait until you see the 200-plane buff formations flown by otto when TOD comes out.
-
Originally posted by DaddyAck
It is to my understanding that the strategic targets used to be alot more important, but due to subsiquent complaining by the loosing side they met the same fate as the night time in AH2, and their impact was lessend to what they are today. :(
Alternately, you had to actually calibrate the nordon bombsight, that's pretty much gone away now, too. Why not have AI bombers with pinpoint accuracy and we all sit back with our beer and watch the bombs fall? The we send over the AI goon's to take the field. When thats done we can sit in the new tower and drink more beer:aok
______________
Ren
The Damned
-
Wouldn`t hurt my feelings any if it was put back to single bombers and do away with the formations.
-
Originally posted by rod367th
lol lol 1 problem bombs need 500ft min to go boom boom in ah2. and if you think in real life they didn't bomb from low alt Watch Jimmy stewarts gun cameras films. he was well known for making low bombruns
By the same token the A4M Skyhawk was a mud dauber during vietnam. You'd come in over the target at 8-10k until you had it abeam your intake and rolled in. Using CCIP (computer computed impact point) you'd come down the slope and watch the target come up to the inverted staple and the bomb would auto drop. The bombs were 1k each and you could set how many pickled. If you got down to 3k alt you'd see a big X. The X meant if you pickled the egg you'd die from your own bomb. The normal TOT (time of target) was 3-5 seconds as you came down the slope at approx 500-550 knots. So your pull out at those speeds put you well within the kill radius over yer own bomb.
Now compare that to slow moving bombers with 1k eggs at 600 ft. Do you actually think the'd live thru it without a drag chute? I don't think drag chutes have been modeled in AH2 yet but ya never know :).
_______________
Ren
The Damned
-
I think you'd see a lot more guys flying buffs if there were meaningful targets for them to hit. Right now, you can bomb a city so it can be captured, or hit the hangars to prevents GV's and other AC from taking off, but all that revolves around base capture. As far as hitting strat targets, they're good for practice, and it's cool to watch them go up in flames, but I can't see as how it really affects the game.
OTOH, what if we did have something like the Spitfire factories in AW? Look at all the whines on this board about the LA-7. What if your team were able to form up a bombing raid, and fly over and knock the LA-7 out of production for an hour or so? Or the Panzer factory? Etc.?
That would give the bomber guys some meaningful targets to strive for, as well as give your team a chance to eliminate the certain planes you're complaining about. Yes, make the a/c factories difficult to destroy, so it would take a REAL formation of bombers to do it, not just one suicidal, 100 ft. agl Lancaser or something.
I know this would produce a lot of whines from those suddenly unable to fly their favorite LA-7, P-51D, FW-190D, etc, but then maybe those pilots could hop in buffs and try to do the same to the other guys????
Give the Bomber Pilots some targets with meaning and value!!!
-
Originally posted by DaddyAck
I believe that if you level the refinery for that zone it should affect the surrounding fields, samr goes with troops or amunition. That is just my opinion.
It affects the resupply rate of the field. In other words it will take longer for the little truck convoy thingy to bring the strats back. But, that functionality is tied to the map, and if it isn't set up right, you get no resupply. Citabria had a huge post about this in the past if you are interested I'm sure you could find it. But we are pretty much barking up the same tree.
-
basicaly it needs a total rework but, theres alot more important things out there to do....aparently...surely fixing the game should be more important?!