Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: bigsky on April 10, 2005, 04:42:04 PM
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Casey Nethercott, the leader of the group said Friday that he doesn't yet want to go into detail on his plans.
He supports the Minutemen, but his backup plan is a much more aggressive approach.
Nethercott pointed to two black SUV's, saying, "These are armored vehicles. They got quarter-inch steel in them. They'll stop small arms fire and some rifles."
The headquarters of the militia, called the Arizona Guard, sits along the U.S./Mexico border near Douglas, Arizona, in the Southeastern corner of the state.
Pointing again to the vehicles, Nethercott continued, "You'll get killed without them, here's been so many shootouts out here."
So many shootouts, he said, that the back wall is riddled with bullet holes of all sizes from drug smugglers who open fire on the compound; prompting the group's border project, tentatively planned for July 4th.
"When this Minuteman thing is over, if it doesn't work, we're going to come out here and close the border with machine guns," Nethercott said.
Fighting fire with fire, but Cochise County authorities say the Arizona Guard must act by the letter of the law.
"We will make sure we find out about that, and we will regulate him, just like we regulate the Minuteman Project," explained Paul Newman, a County Supervisor for Cochise County.
The Minutemen, who sat and watched the border still Friday, say they don't support a violent solution.
"I think anytime you go to that length to take the law into your own hands, you're asking for trouble," said Chris Simcox, an organizer for the Minuteman Project.
Eyewitness News 4 has learned of several other groups, including one in California and another in Texas, planning to launch their own anti-illegal-immigrant projects soon.
http://kvoa.com/Global/story.asp?S=3188165
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I hope it doesnt get violent but I still think its great that common citizens are stepping up for the safety and security of their country.
Alot of communities have a neighborhood watch program, I think this is no different.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
I hope it doesnt get violent but I still think its great that common citizens are stepping up for the safety and security of their country.
Alot of communities have a neighborhood watch program, I think this is no different.
Yeah its great. Right until these unfettered citizens decide Gunslinger is a security threat..
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Originally posted by Silat
Yeah its great. Right until these unfettered citizens decide Gunslinger is a security threat..
Well then they are crossing the boundries of the law and will be held accountable.
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I think it's a a good thing that common citizen's are helping out the border patrol by watching for illegals and monitoring their movements until the border patrol can get there to arrest the illegals.
I just hope it doesnt get violent.
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I'm starting to have some doubts about the Bush administration. Why did we spend Billions on Home Land Defense and have to depend on private citizens to defend the Border?
Somebody in Washington better get there bellybutton in gear now...!
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It's good..but when "militias" get involved..it becomes about hate..and not about our security. Militias most often have some sort of agenda and have always been linked to one hate group or another..I wonder which one this one is linked to.
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i always find it amusing when the "authorities" want to hold citizens to the "letter of the law" but can't do anything about illegals or drug smugglers. If the authorities were doing their job there would be no need for militias.
i think we need a govt funded program to inform the illegals and smugglers that they are breaking the letter of the law.(sour-casum)
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Originally posted by john9001
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i always find it amusing when the "authorities" want to hold citizens to the "letter of the law" but can't do anything about illegals or drug smugglers. If the authorities were doing their job there would be no need for militias.
i think we need a govt funded program to inform the illegals and smugglers that they are breaking the letter of the law.(sour-casum)
Concur.
dago
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i always find it amusing when the "authorities" want to hold citizens to the "letter of the law" but can't do anything about illegals or drug smugglers. If the authorities were doing their job there would be no need for militias.
It's not that the authorities *cant* do the job, they just *wont* do it.
Maybe a lawsuit filed by citizens can force the authorities to enforce the laws? I dunno if thats possible, but it's an idea :)
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I say I hope they do WHATEVER it takes to stop the invasion.
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Originally posted by Otto
I'm starting to have some doubts about the Bush administration.
BWHAHAAAAHHHAHAHAHAA! Really? :rofl
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Originally posted by Otto
I'm starting to have some doubts about the Bush administration.
Like Kerry would have done anything...the democrats relish in the fact they get most of the Latin American vote...clamping down on the border would have killed that.
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Having individuals confront anyone on the border while armed is a recepie ripe for disaster. Sooner or later, tempers or frustration will rear their ugly head and people will get hurt.
If this was a government approved project, like the CAP aircraft searching for U-Boats during WWII, it would probably be alot more successful.
Too bad both sides are pandering for votes and don't want to get involved, its a lose-lose situation politically.
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Originally posted by CPorky
If this was a government approved project, like the CAP aircraft searching for U-Boats during WWII, it would probably be alot more successful.
Too bad both sides are pandering for votes and don't want to get involved, its a lose-lose situation politically.
U see there is this phrase you use "government approved"
Have you seen how "government approved" projects work. There's committies, budgets, some guy that makes ALOT of money to oversee it, and worst of all....red tape. The govt. can't see to manage anything properly.
as long as this doenst get out of control....and of course Silat's police state tin foil hat worries there's no problem with regular citizens voluteering their time.
Hell we have citizens volunteering for social issues why not security.
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Originally posted by ASTAC
It's good..but when "militias" get involved..it becomes about hate..and not about our security. Militias most often have some sort of agenda and have always been linked to one hate group or another..I wonder which one this one is linked to.
i would say no. i think some hate groups called themselves militias to hide.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Hell we have citizens volunteering for social issues why not security.
I think I shall start pulling over traffic violators.
shamus
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Originally posted by Otto
I'm starting to have some doubts about the Bush administration. Why did we spend Billions on Home Land Defense and have to depend on private citizens to defend the Border?
Somebody in Washington better get there bellybutton in gear now...!
Just starting to have doubts? :lol
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Originally posted by Shamus
I think I shall start pulling over traffic violators.
shamus
well that would be going beyond the law....BUT if you were to follow them and call the cops (people do that all the time in DUI cases) or tell them to slow down ect that would be relevent to the current discussion.
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Gunslinger, well said.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
well that would be going beyond the law....BUT if you were to follow them and call the cops (people do that all the time in DUI cases) or tell them to slow down ect that would be relevent to the current discussion.
The current discussion started with this Casey Nethercott bragging about his armored vehicles and the fact that the Minutemen were not being aggresive enough, and he might just have to roll out his machine guns.
No I dont see where his plan and mine differ much.
They both smack of vigilantism
Now if your position is that a citizen should call the police if they observe a crime I agree, but I have a feeling that this Nethercott clown has a bit more in mind.
shamus
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[insert tardy smiley here]
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To quote myself:
"It's good..but when "militias" get involved..it becomes about hate..and not about our security. Militias most often have some sort of agenda and have always been linked to one hate group or another..I wonder which one this one is linked to."
Here's what I was talking about earlier.
Neo-Nazi recruiting for Arizona Guard Militia (http://www.adl.org/PresRele/Militi_71/4563_71.htm)
and also proof that these guys are on the wrong side of the law.
http://www.azstarnet.com/dailystar/relatedarticles/39324.php (http://www.azstarnet.com/dailystar/relatedarticles/39324.php)
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shamus , if the traffic violator was a undocumented visitor from mexico would you still stop them or would you let them go because they have a different culture?
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How would I know prior to the stop?
shamus
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Originally posted by Elfie
I think it's a a good thing that common citizen's are helping out the border patrol by watching for illegals and monitoring their movements until the border patrol can get there to arrest the illegals.
I just hope it doesnt get violent.
Thats good way how to make some money for local citizens....
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Originally posted by Shamus
How would I know prior to the stop?
shamus
By the 12 other mexicians that are in the back of the pickup
:aok
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Originally posted by ASTAC
To quote myself:
"It's good..but when "militias" get involved..it becomes about hate..and not about our security. Militias most often have some sort of agenda and have always been linked to one hate group or another..I wonder which one this one is linked to."
Here's what I was talking about earlier.
Neo-Nazi recruiting for Arizona Guard Militia (http://www.adl.org/PresRele/Militi_71/4563_71.htm)
and also proof that these guys are on the wrong side of the law.
http://www.azstarnet.com/dailystar/relatedarticles/39324.php (http://www.azstarnet.com/dailystar/relatedarticles/39324.php)
You guys ran right over this without comment...it's an important issue to deal with this thread's topic. What do you guys think of militias now?
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Originally posted by ASTAC
You guys ran right over this without comment...it's an important issue to deal with this thread's topic. What do you guys think of militias now?
"" On its Web site, the "Arizona Guard" proclaims to be "an Organized Militia dedicated to the defense of American Patriotism and to help local ranchers and citizens defend property from illegal alien activity and drug running operations." It asks for volunteers to carry firearms on missions.""
maybe i'm missing something here, what exactly do you find objectionable about that statment?
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Originally posted by john9001
"" On its Web site, the "Arizona Guard" proclaims to be "an Organized Militia dedicated to the defense of American Patriotism and to help local ranchers and citizens defend property from illegal alien activity and drug running operations." It asks for volunteers to carry firearms on missions.""
maybe i'm missing something here, what exactly do you find objectionable about that statment?
Well that statment sounds glorious and is hard to argue with on the surface, but I think the means to the end proclaimed needs some investigation.
I hope you dont take everything you read on a website as gospel.
shamus
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Originally posted by Trell
By the 12 other mexicians that are in the back of the pickup
:aok
There's just no hope for you :)
shamus
p.s private joke
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Originally posted by john9001
"" On its Web site, the "Arizona Guard" proclaims to be "an Organized Militia dedicated to the defense of American Patriotism and to help local ranchers and citizens defend property from illegal alien activity and drug running operations." It asks for volunteers to carry firearms on missions.""
maybe i'm missing something here, what exactly do you find objectionable about that statment?
If you read the articles you find that they are already outside the law...and a top member is a white supremicist.
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Originally posted by ASTAC
You guys ran right over this without comment...it's an important issue to deal with this thread's topic. What do you guys think of militias now?
Good in concept.....bad in follow through :confused:
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Originally posted by ASTAC
If you read the articles you find that they are already outside the law...and a top member is a white supremicist.
What law are they "outside of" post the statute so that we can take advantage of your superior legal knowledge. I have a "concealed weapons permit" that gives me the legal right to carry a weapon in the State of Florida. If me and a few hundred other people volunteer to patrol the borders of my state for illegal entry, what law would we be violating?
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In one of the articles it states that when the boarder patrol tried to stop them..they would not stop and proceeded to this guy's ranch..where they started taking up defensive positions......lets see....preparing to have a gun battle with federal authorities puts these low life gun nuts outside the law.
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Originally posted by ASTAC
In one of the articles it states that when the boarder patrol tried to stop them..they would not stop and proceeded to this guy's ranch..where they started taking up defensive positions......lets see....preparing to have a gun battle with federal authorities puts these low life gun nuts outside the law.
read it carefully...notice the border patrol retreat.
Nethercott called Cochise County sheriff's deputies to the scene, saying Border Patrol agents had members of his organization on the ground and were pointing weapons at them.
Nethercott warned that if the deputies did not arrive quickly, there would be shooting between the group and Border Patrol agents.
By the time the deputies arrived, other Border Patrol agents had also arrived. The deputies found at least seven Border Patrol vehicles, with at least as many agents shielded behind their vehicles with their handguns drawn, as well as some with AR-15 rifles, all pointing toward the Arizona Guard compound.
Nethercott told deputies that at no time did agents activate their emergency lights in an attempt to stop him and that they aimed weapons at Riddle, who only had a rifle slung over his shoulder.
Nethercott, a twice-convicted felon, told deputies that he was angered because Border Patrol agents had ordered Nethercott to lie on the ground "like a criminal."
Deputies were able to defuse the situation when Border Patrol agents retreated from the property, about a half-mile east of the Douglas Border Patrol Station.
He said he has met with federal officials from the United States and Mexico, and has appealed to his counterpart in Sonora and other border states, church groups and advocacy groups, asking them to come forward with specific evidence of a crime committed against a migrant by a militia member.
To date, no victim has come forth, he said.
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you still defend these guys? I don't know maybe you only read the part where the govt "may" have been wrong...I read that they were acticg agressively in the face of federal agents...not to mention the other article shows how a top member is a neo-nazi and has been recruiting for the group...so you have a bunch of racist trigger happy prettythangholes running amok in southern Arizona...making all kinds of threats of violence..and you think thats okay? That the feds aren't justified in giving these guys a bunch of pressure and that they too should be involved in our border security?
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Originally posted by weaselsan
What law are they "outside of" post the statute so that we can take advantage of your superior legal knowledge. I have a "concealed weapons permit" that gives me the legal right to carry a weapon in the State of Florida. If me and a few hundred other people volunteer to patrol the borders of my state for illegal entry, what law would we be violating?
You wouldnt be violating any law until you decided to stop and try and question me if I chose to enter your fine state.
But I just might have a "concealed weapons permit" as well and feel that I am in fear for my life and double tap ya when you decide to accost me at the border.
shamus
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Originally posted by ASTAC
you still defend these guys? I don't know maybe you only read the part where the govt "may" have been wrong...I read that they were acticg agressively in the face of federal agents...not to mention the other article shows how a top member is a neo-nazi and has been recruiting for the group...so you have a bunch of racist trigger happy prettythangholes running amok in southern Arizona...making all kinds of threats of violence..and you think thats okay? That the feds aren't justified in giving these guys a bunch of pressure and that they too should be involved in our border security?
And how many people have these trigger happy prettythangholes shot?
None...it seems where pulling bullets out of them from the feds.
When were Neo-Nazis outlawed? Is it illegal to recruit?
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Originally posted by Shamus
You wouldnt be violating any law until you decided to stop and try and question me if I chose to enter your fine state.
But I just might have a "concealed weapons permit" as well and feel that I am in fear for my life and double tap ya when you decide to accost me at the border.
shamus
LOL..... a concealed weapons permit from Michigan? And that would be .....a Michael Moore DVD.
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Yur drunk again aint ya? :)
shamus
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Originally posted by Shamus
Yur drunk again aint ya? :)
shamus
I must of hit the Burbon a little to hard again...I could have sworn you where mentioning something about being able to legally carry a weapon in Michigan. You'd have to really be loaded to buy into that.
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Got my first CCW up here in 1978, dont understand what point you are trying to make
shamus
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Originally posted by Shamus
Got my first CCW up here in 1978, dont understand what point you are trying to make
shamus
was unaware that michigan had CCW permits. I stand corrected.
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Originally posted by weaselsan
And how many people have these trigger happy prettythangholes shot?
None...it seems where pulling bullets out of them from the feds.
When were Neo-Nazis outlawed? Is it illegal to recruit?
1)They aren't outlawed..but you find it acceptable that groups who openly admit they would like to exterminate certain races of people to be armed?
2) These so called "militias" are using a distorted view of the 2nd amendment..yes we can "bear arms" but it does not authorize citizens to form para-military groups...it was written in a time when we had virtually no army and enemies suurounding us on all sides...the "well organized militia part" really has no place these days unless we were under the threat of military invasion. not illegals crossing the border. As much as I dispise the fact they come here like that I don't think they should be shot..which from everything this group has said..sounds like their intention.
Groups like this only help to cause trouble for EVERYBODY..
If you think "militias" are their for your freedom and your protection..you are dead wrong..they are there for their own agendas and their "protection" and to make guys that are otherwise pu$$ies feel strong..but hey..it is a free country (no thanks to people like them) and you can support em if you want.
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Originally posted by ASTAC
1)They aren't outlawed..but you find it acceptable that groups who openly admit they would like to exterminate certain races of people to be armed?
2) These so called "militias" are using a distorted view of the 2nd amendment..yes we can "bear arms" but it does not authorize citizens to form para-military groups...it was written in a time when we had virtually no army and enemies suurounding us on all sides...the "well organized militia part" really has no place these days unless we were under the threat of military invasion. not illegals crossing the border. As much as I dispise the fact they come here like that I don't think they should be shot..which from everything this group has said..sounds like their intention.
Groups like this only help to cause trouble for EVERYBODY..
If you think "militias" are their for your freedom and your protection..you are dead wrong..they are there for their own agendas and their "protection" and to make guys that are
otherwise pu$$ies feel strong..but hey..it is a free country (no thanks to people like them) and you can support em if you want.
Want to stop the evil Nazi Facist pigs? Tell your congressman that you have had it with lack of border security. Demand that anyone who employs undocumented aliens should face serious punitive fines. Use the military if neccesary. Then the Militias wouldn't be needed.
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Originally posted by weaselsan
Want to stop the evil Nazi Facist pigs? Tell your congressman that you have had it with lack of border security. Demand that anyone who employs undocumented aliens should face serious punitive fines. Use the military if neccesary. Then the Militias wouldn't be needed.
With the exception of using the military inside the borders I would say BRAVO.
shamus
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Originally posted by ASTAC
1)They aren't outlawed..but you find it acceptable that groups who openly admit they would like to exterminate certain races of people to be armed?
You think because someone disagrees with your views they should not be allowed to be armed? Because they might "like" to exterminate someone doesn't make them a criminal, and does not mean they do not still have rights.
2) These so called "militias" are using a distorted view of the 2nd amendment..yes we can "bear arms" but it does not authorize citizens to form para-military groups...it was written in a time when we had virtually no army and enemies suurounding us on all sides...the "well organized militia part" really has no place these days unless we were under the threat of military invasion. not illegals crossing the border. As much as I dispise the fact they come here like that I don't think they should be shot..which from everything this group has said..sounds like their intention.
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I think we had the US Marines already when the 2nd amendment was written. If you pay any attention, you would realize the 2nd amendment was to protect us from the government itself, not outside threats.
Where do you feel forming a "para-military" group must be "authorized"? Maybe forming a group like that would just fall under the heading of "exercising freedom" when it breaks no law, commits no crime and in the reality of the real world as opposed to the "B" grade movies and bad television that warps your sense of reality, really has caused no harm to anyone.
If you think "militias" are their for your freedom and your protection..you are dead wrong..they are there for their own agendas and their "protection" and to make guys that are otherwise pu$$ies feel strong..but hey..it is a free country (no thanks to people like them) and you can support em if you want. [/B]
It's a double edged sword this "freedom" thing. They have the right to their own opinions and agendas. Just because you feel morally superior for some unknown reason does not make them bad people. This "no thanks to people like them" comment I find almost amusing in it's naivety, as I doubt you actually know if any of them have served in the military, and while I would be guessing, I would suspect you didnt.
Can you name me 3 times in the last 25 years a militia has broken some laws or committed some acts against our nation?
I doubt it. Where is the genocide you refer to? Truthfully, the closest thing to genocide commited in this country was committed by our own government to the Native American tribes.
You are mostly just a product of the liberal bias in the media, disdain spilling out towards anyone unlike yourself in interest or beliefs. The real tragedy is your failing to understand the realities of a nation where people are differant and have differant concerns and priorities.
dago
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My feeling is shoot on site anyone, Man, Woman, or child spotted sneaking across the boarders illegally.
I dont care who does it. Be it our own boarder patrol or some militia group so long as they do it. In short if it comes out as its certainly bound to do that some poor illegal was killed while trying to sneak across the boarder by a militia group, there wont be a whole lot of outrage, or tears shed, or sympathy for the illegal comming from me.
On the other hand I have no problem at all with anyone who comes across legally.
You dont want to be shot at? Then dont sneak in.
Same thing if you want to come in my house.
Knock on my door and ask to come in and I'm friendly enough that I might let you in.
But if you sneak in my window in the middle of the night dont be surprised or upset when they carry you away in a body bag.
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Originally posted by ASTAC
2) These so called "militias" are using a distorted view of the 2nd amendment..yes we can "bear arms" but it does not authorize citizens to form para-military groups
Actualy the forming of paramilitary groups is a long tradition in this country. So I'd say yes it does.
Many of the units used in the civil war were privately formed.
As was I beleive Teddy Roosevelts Rough Riders.
As my father used to say.
"When the government cannot protect the people. The people must protect themselves"
I think the government,from the boarders down to the local police has proven beyond a reasonable doubt its inability and in some cases as in illegals crossing the boarders and unwillingness to protect the people against todays threats.
So we must protect outselves
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It is obvious that this "debate" is pointless...I feel I am right with some of my feelings ..and I'm sure you guys are right with some of yours....but how dare you put in with the side of the liberals that are trying to destroy our country.
I do not take anything from the "mainstream media" at face value. To do that would be a very irresponsible way to forge opinions. I am a republican and conservative in most of my views. I still do not believe the 2nd amendment gives citizens the right to form armed groups. It is a very gray area and needs to be adressed.
In you guys definition of what a militia is for, any militia that perceives that the government is becoming opressive, can use that as a reason to start an insurgency against the government. That perception is the problem. I'm sure there are already groups that feel that way. Do you feel there is anything the govt is doing that justifies that sort of action? What happens when one of these groups decides to strike?
I am an advocate of gun ownership..I have quite a few myself. For HOME defense and for hunting and sport. I find no need to want to own guns that have no use for those means. IE automatic weapons and such.
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The big problem astac is you are making too many assumptions.
You presuppose the intent or charter of any militia, and I think you base that solely on distorted news reports. If I am wrong, tell me this:
Where did you get the information with which you are baseing your opinions about militias and their intent?
Have you personally belonged to any, or had personal contact with any militia members and discussed their plans?
Its a huge stretch, huge, to assume that any and all militias exist to overthrow the government or cause anarchy.
dago