Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: StarOfAfrica2 on April 11, 2005, 02:54:31 PM

Title: If you thought China had forgotten.......
Post by: StarOfAfrica2 on April 11, 2005, 02:54:31 PM
Who said only the winners get to write history?  

Quote
By MARI YAMAGUCHI
.c The Associated Press

TOKYO (AP) - Japan's prime minister Monday demanded China take responsibility for the safety of Japanese working in China and said it was ``very regrettable'' that protesters threw rocks at the Tokyo's embassy in Beijing and Japanese students were beaten up.

Demonstrations against Japan have spread across China after Tokyo last week approved a revised edition of a school history textbook critics say whitewashes Japan's brutal wartime colonization of Asian nations last century.

About 1,000 people threw rocks and broke windows at the Japanese Embassy in Beijing on Saturday, while two Japanese students were beaten with beer mugs and ashtrays at a Shanghai restaurant.

Meanwhile, 10,000 people gathered outside a Japanese-run supermarket in the southern city of Shenzhen on Sunday to call for a boycott of Japanese goods.

``It is very regrettable. This kind of thing must not be allowed to happen,'' Prime Minister Junchiro Koizumi said of the damage inflicted by the protesters. ``China is responsible for the safety of Japanese people who are working in China. I would like them to be well aware of this.''

Asked how he would respond to the injuries suffered by Japanese citizens, Koizumi said ``I ask that China do all it can to prevent a recurrence.''

Earlier Monday, Koizumi's top spokesman said Tokyo was seriously concerned by the demonstrations and appealed for calm to prevent worsening tensions between the two Asian powers.

``We are deeply troubled by the recent developments,'' Chief Cabinet Secretary Hiroyuki Hosoda said. ``We are next-door neighbors and our diplomatic relations are extremely important. We should not let misunderstandings grow.''

Hiroshi Okuda, the chairman of Toyota Motor Corp. and the head of Japan's biggest business lobby, Nippon Keidanren, said he hoped the Chinese and Japanese governments would subdue the tensions. Still, he said he was optimistic the protests would only affect corporate Japan temporarily.

``There may be a brief impact on Japanese companies. But given some time, the situation will calm down,'' Okuda said, adding that ordinary citizens had not joined the mostly student demonstrators.

The weekend protests in the tightly controlled Chinese capital were the largest in years. Japanese officials have complained that Chinese authorities failed to provide adequate security despite repeated requests last week to boost protection of Japanese interests.

Hosoda, however, said it would not be helpful to pursue those accusations for now, adding that Tokyo wanted to resolve the matter diplomatically.

Japanese Foreign Minister Nobutaka Machimura summoned China's ambassador on Sunday to lodge a protest, and demand an apology and compensation for damages.

Anti-Japanese sentiment runs deep among Chinese, with many resenting what they see as Tokyo's failure to atone for its wartime aggression.

The history books, written by nationalist scholars, were approved by Japan's Education Ministry for use in schools beginning April 2006.


This current group in charge just cant seem to keep out of trouble.  In the last 6 months they have pissed off China, South Korea, and the Philippines.  Not looking to be a good year to be Japanese in the world.  Now we Americans arent so lonely.
Title: If you thought China had forgotten.......
Post by: Engine on April 11, 2005, 03:31:46 PM
Eh? Why is China currently upset with Japan?
Title: If you thought China had forgotten.......
Post by: Holden McGroin on April 11, 2005, 05:02:44 PM
It has something to do with the sinking of Kublai Khan's fleet.
Title: If you thought China had forgotten.......
Post by: ASTAC on April 11, 2005, 05:08:49 PM
can you blame em..though it was a long time ago...the Japs were very brutal to all they over ran at the beginning of the war...now they are trying to make it seem like it was not so bad...Thats like us saying what we did to Heroshima was a minor event.
Title: If you thought China had forgotten.......
Post by: Vulcan on April 11, 2005, 05:28:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Engine
Eh? Why is China currently upset with Japan?


Japan has internally maintained a stance that they were justified in their behaviour and actions during WW2.

Imagine if someone wrote a book in Japan saying the US were a bunch of losers and deserved to be attacked, that Pearl was a great victory, American airmen deserved to be beheaded and tortured, British and American civilian women captured at Singapore deserved to become sex slaves or executed. Then officially sanctioned said book for use in schools.

Thats pretty much what is happening.
Title: If you thought China had forgotten.......
Post by: Elfie on April 11, 2005, 05:42:39 PM
Quote
Japan has internally maintained a stance that they were justified in their behaviour and actions during WW2.


Of course they do, anything else would be a *lose of face*. Can't have that now can we? :rolleyes:
Title: If you thought China had forgotten.......
Post by: Gunslinger on April 11, 2005, 05:42:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by ASTAC
can you blame em..though it was a long time ago...the Japs were very brutal to all they over ran at the beginning of the war...now they are trying to make it seem like it was not so bad...Thats like us saying what we did to Heroshima was a minor event.


I think a better comparison (before yet another WWII a-bomb justification thread) would be the US and Native Americans.
Title: If you thought China had forgotten.......
Post by: Gh0stFT on April 11, 2005, 05:57:24 PM
i wonder how comes all those chinese yesterday so calm and today all flip out, as if they where just waiting.
But maybe its just me & my whiskey tonight ;*)
Title: If you thought China had forgotten.......
Post by: DmdBT on April 11, 2005, 06:22:05 PM
I thought Tom Cruise got the emporer all straightened out... what did I miss??
Title: If you thought China had forgotten.......
Post by: Jackal1 on April 11, 2005, 06:56:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by DmdBT
I thought Tom Cruise got the emporer all straightened out... what did I miss??


The sequel.
Title: If you thought China had forgotten.......
Post by: storch on April 11, 2005, 10:20:47 PM
the rape of nanking google it
Title: If you thought China had forgotten.......
Post by: Rolex on April 11, 2005, 10:21:11 PM
Great. More hyperbole, myths and misinformation being spread at the speed of light.
Title: If you thought China had forgotten.......
Post by: GtoRA2 on April 11, 2005, 10:28:19 PM
Rolex
 Are you going to point out what you think is wrong or what?
Title: If you thought China had forgotten.......
Post by: Glasses on April 11, 2005, 10:28:23 PM
Bah if you think they're pist now wiat until the Japanese unleash their Bipedal armored tanks.

Then the Japwnage will begin.
Title: If you thought China had forgotten.......
Post by: Engine on April 11, 2005, 11:05:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Vulcan
Japan has internally maintained a stance that they were justified in their behaviour and actions during WW2.
Maintained, as in they just recently came out and said "We were oh so totally right to own you"?

I find it hard to believe that after 60 years there's a sudden outbreak of violence with no immediate cause.
Title: If you thought China had forgotten.......
Post by: Rolex on April 11, 2005, 11:12:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GtoRA2
Rolex
 Are you going to point out what you think is wrong or what?


Think I'll pass. :)

It's not a two sentence topic.
Title: If you thought China had forgotten.......
Post by: Vulcan on April 11, 2005, 11:19:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Engine
Maintained, as in they just recently came out and said "We were oh so totally right to own you"?

I find it hard to believe that after 60 years there's a sudden outbreak of violence with no immediate cause.


Errmmm sorry but this is nothing new. Though its the first time so many Chinese have gotten their panties in a knot over it. The Koreans regularly protest and are always bickering with the Japanese. Theres also low levels of dissatisfaction in NZ and Australia.

Its an APAC thing, sorta like the European Union, everyone in APAC takes in interest in their neighbours goings on.
Title: If you thought China had forgotten.......
Post by: GtoRA2 on April 11, 2005, 11:21:13 PM
Then why comment at all?
Title: If you thought China had forgotten.......
Post by: bunch on April 12, 2005, 12:08:50 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
It has something to do with the sinking of Kublai Khan's fleet.


That fleet was Korean
Title: If you thought China had forgotten.......
Post by: Rolex on April 12, 2005, 02:52:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by GtoRA2
Then why comment at all?


Just stupid, I guess. I shouldn't have. As a matter of fact, thanks. I mean that without any sarcasm. I realize today that I really do have nothing to add anywhere here. I've wasted a lot of my, and other people's time posting here.
Title: If you thought China had forgotten.......
Post by: lazs2 on April 12, 2005, 08:31:55 AM
hmm  rolex.. I don't allways agree with you but I don't feel you have wasted my time.  You made me look things up once or twice even.  course... I can't speak for what you consider wasting your time.

I think the japs did commit more atrocities than most during WWII... I don't think they are really admitting it.  

gunslinger... I read a lot about the indian wars and I don't really get what you are saying.   I think that for the most part we simply played by their rules but that we were so much more advanced and in such greater numbers that they didn't stand a chance.   I don't see how it could have worked out any other way..  I don't see hjow it could have been better any other way.

lazs
Title: If you thought China had forgotten.......
Post by: TheDudeDVant on April 12, 2005, 10:35:27 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Rolex
Just stupid, I guess. I shouldn't have. As a matter of fact, thanks. I mean that without any sarcasm. I realize today that I really do have nothing to add anywhere here. I've wasted a lot of my, and other people's time posting here.


What?? How can you name yourself Rolex and then say your wasting time??  I call BS on this one!!   haha

Seriously - I enjoy reading you and you've never wasted my time that I am aware of.. 8)
Title: If you thought China had forgotten.......
Post by: GtoRA2 on April 12, 2005, 10:45:31 AM
Rolex
 I think what you post is interesting as well. Don't agree all the time but you at least seem to put real thought into it.

Thats why I wanted to hear your take on this lol.
Title: If you thought China had forgotten.......
Post by: Yeager on April 12, 2005, 01:13:28 PM
While we are on the subject, there are quite a few educated scholars, including american historians, that think american policy towards japan started the whole japanese militarist movement that resulted in japans quest to expand their sphere of influence  and military power as well as that pre-emptive act of self defense one sunday morning not all that long ago.  Not that I agree with the theory.

And yes, the chinese are justified in their anger.  japans military was brutal to china.
Title: If you thought China had forgotten.......
Post by: StarOfAfrica2 on April 12, 2005, 01:38:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Yeager
While we are on the subject, there are quite a few educated scholars, including american historians, that think american policy towards japan started the whole japanese militarist movement that resulted in japans quest to expand their sphere of influence  and military power as well as that pre-emptive act of self defense one sunday morning not all that long ago.  Not that I agree with the theory.

And yes, the chinese are justified in their anger.  japans military was brutal to china.


Japan's military was brutal to everyone.  What they did to china was a warmup.  Have you ever read anything about what they did in the Philippines?  Their "purification" program to weed out the "un-Asian" people in the islands, and breed the women with Japanese soldiers to restore their "pure Asian blood" to the islands?  

That said, it wasnt all of them.  Just like no one beleives that EVERY German soldier or pilot in WWII was a war criminal.  And just like Germany has learned to live with its past and move forward, Japan needs to be able to do the same.  Asian values are different than Western values, its sometimes hard to understand their way of thinking.  I still after 8 years of exposure have trouble grasping some of the more subtle things.  What I do believe is that the Japanese people should not be required to spend the lives of every generation apologizing for what happened 60 years ago.  A fourth generation is now here since the end of the war, and its time for some people to learn to let go.  You dont have to forget in order to forgive.

I brought this thread up not to bash on Japanese for hiding the truth, or to bash the Chinese for their reaction.  We all hide things we are embarassed about.  And they arent LYING, they just arent telling it all in an elementary school textbook.  I dont remember much in my textbooks about the slaughter of Indian tribes as we moved across North America.  Pretty much all the textbooks said was that they were here before us.  I watched a documentary recently that said almost 2/3rds of European middle school students had never heard of Auschwitz.  I dont know for sure that this is true, I've never been a European middle school student, and I dont know who did the survey or how the information might have been skewed (if it was).  I'm sure there is some truth there or there would have been nothing to find.

Basically, what I'm saying is, there is no reason for anyone from any nation not to be proud of who they are and where they come from.  What seems to be lacking is an education that teaches what we have in common, AND teaches a more personal history at the same time.  We dont have to be generic to have things in common.   Its also a sad fact that those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.  This is supposed to be the "information age", and here we are making the same mistakes all over again.