Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Kweassa on April 12, 2005, 11:39:13 AM
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I didn't have much time to extensively test 2.03. Naturally, with limited time, my interest was shifted towards the 'facelift' Fw190s.
One thing I've noticed;
The Fw190s are incredibly more stable than it used to be when near stall. The violent snap rolls will still occur with excessive elevator input causing accelerated stall, but overall, it's much more smooth and gentle when coaxed near the edge.
Everybody with any experience in pre-2.03 190s will know what I'm talking about.
The old 190s use to have a really really bad tendency of 'wobbling' when nearing the edge. It becomes very sensitive and with the slightest amount of corrections the roll direction would change from left to right to left again wildly.
Well..
Here we are! It's all gone! It almost felt like flying a totally different plane.
So, is this just placebo??
I could swear something has changed to the better. Maybe not the FM or how it is calculated itself, but the dimensions are working differently than it used to? More accurate calculations?
ps) I hope it ain't some bug that has to be removed, because despite the horrible frontal view, these 190s I prefer over the old 190s!!!
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Originally posted by Kweassa
So, is this just placebo??
No.
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I thought that there was a change, but then I realized that I thought I was in an A-8 and I was actually in the A-5. Took up an A-8 and it felt no different than before.
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Originally posted by Grits
I thought that there was a change, but then I realized that I thought I was in an A-8 and I was actually in the A-5. Took up an A-8 and it felt no different than before.
I suffered some stalls quite difficult to recover from, never present before (190 A8). Not that I've tested the new 190s in depth, but definitively something has changed. Something remains, like default speeds for substained climb, but minimum speed for 1 notch of flaps seems to have been raised to 180 mph. I would say (not sure) that A5 and A8 substained climb rates have been lowered.
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I definately notice a change Grits, because I rarely fly A-5s. I'm a mediocre pilot with sucky aim, so I'm one of those dweebs take up the 30mm package on the A-8 and spray snapshots to get any kind of kills.
I was doing a test run in the MA, and took up a Fw190A-8 from a field with high enemy activity nearby. What I didn't realize, was that the field was being vulched by a single La-7.
I just took off, gears up, dropped DTs, fuel still 100%.. and a La-7 passes right in front of me at high speed. I looked around to see if field defenses were up. Nope, no acks, no AA GVs.
I was forced to fight this La-7 immediately after take off. Ofcourse, since the La-7 was already so faster than me, it wasn't too difficult to move out of the way and force an overshoot once.
But the thing is, I'm no ace pilot, and that one overshoot is usually all I can manage in a situation like this. I'd wait for the right moment, and roll 180 degrees sharply and pull out of the way hard. After I do that, with such low speed and low alt, there is no alt trade off into speed.. and that's where usually these La-7s or P-51s would slow down and latch behind me. They are still a bit faster than me, but the 190 I am in would struggle so hard to even attempt to turn, and would usually be blasted out of the sky.
Well, as it turns out, this with this new Fw190A-8 I was able to coax it into a stall fight which I could not do before. Attempt a barrel roll or a wing-over at speeds near 200mph, and soon it would usually start that 'wobbling' which is very difficult to control with a twisty stick like mine. But not this time, in the new Fw190A-8.
It almost felt as if I was in a low-speed P-47 - it'd feel heavy, but it's still stable and easy to control.. only, it didn't turn as good as the P-47. But nevertheless, I could still maneuver without worrying about those damned destabilization.
I was very impressed.
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all 190s feel like they handle better at low speeds than they did before, and the a5 seems to handle even better.
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Well, to be honest, I only messed around for a few minutes with them, but I didnt find them all that different. A real sortie with them in the arena might change my mind.
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Just did some back to back offline speed testing between 2.02 and 2.03 speeds were OTD with WEP:
A-5 was 339, now 333
A-8 was 349, now 344
D-9 was 375, now 367
All three of them (didnt test the F-8) are slower with the D-9 being 8 MPH slower than it was.
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Ouch the Dora got it in the rear...
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Nope, I know what happened. They now model the drag from the pylon that holds a DT or bomb, before when you dropped a DT all the extra drag was gone. I had DT's on but dropped the right away, if you take the DT out in the hangar the planes are all exactly the same speed as before.
I am now back to my original position that they did not change anything in the flight model of the 190's other than the extra drag of the leftover DT/bomb pylon.
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Ah!!
Nice find Grits, very good one indeed!
So the ETC bomb racks would drag down about 5~8mph off the top speed if equipped!
Thanks for the testings Grits!
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That's disheartening about the 5-8 speed loss because of ETC. Oh well. I do notice that the 190s handle better at low speed, though. And that's where I've always flown them.
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Funny thing is Dora should loose the least speed because of its late model stramlined etc rack, yet it looses the most by 60%..
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What max speed at sealevel does have now the AH D9?
With ETC 504 rack it should be 605 kmh (376 mph) with 1.81 ata and 3250 rpm.
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Without the rack its 375-376, with the rack its 367, 8 MPH slower.
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Kweassa,is right,I flew the FW190 A5 a lot an it used to be very unstable,the new A5,is a much nicer plane to fly and I suspect is a more accurate model.Flat turns when trying to land used to be a night mare,not that you would want to flat turn in combat in a 190.I haven't flown the A8 Dora yet.
Just my thoughts. :)
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So how much speed should be lost with the ETC rack on the various 190 models? Do we have any documentation for this?
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I flew the Fw190A-5 offline a bit last night and it felt really nice. Then I jumped online and flew it. All I could find was a really low a slow Typhoon that had just taken off and an M-16. I killed both, but it felt like a pig.
Then on the flight home I realized I had a droptank on the whole time.
Overall I like the Fw190A-5. I can see it being a frequent choice for me if I start flying more often again. It won't replace the Ki-84, but it is a nice fighter that has its own strong points.
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Originally posted by Grits
Without the rack its 375-376, with the rack its 367, 8 MPH slower.
376 mph should be WITH rack.
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Originally posted by Grits
Just did some back to back offline speed testing between 2.02 and 2.03 speeds were OTD with WEP:
A-5 was 339, now 333
A-8 was 349, now 344
D-9 was 375, now 367
All three of them (didnt test the F-8) are slower with the D-9 being 8 MPH slower than it was.
WHAT???
Our A-8 is kinda slow lol. IL2FB's A-8 has deck speed of 358-361mph...
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Originally posted by MANDO
376 mph should be WITH rack.
367 is WITH the rack, 375-6 WITHOUT the rack.
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Originally posted by Grits
367 is WITH the rack, 375-6 WITHOUT the rack.
Really?
Dora speed WITH ETC 504 (curve 4, 3250 rpm mit MW50) (http://www.terra.es/personal2/matias.s/d9speed2chart.jpg)
605 kmh (376 mph) WITH RACK.
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Our A-8 is kinda slow lol. IL2FB's A-8 has deck speed of 358-361mph...
All the 190s in FB are faster OTD with C3 injection (MW-50 for the D-9)
A5 OTD - 110% + C3 -> 355mph (571 kmh)
A8 OTD - 110% + C3 -> 361mph (581kmh)
D9 OTD - 110% + MW-50 -> 372mph (600kmh)
F8 OTD - 110% + C3 -> 352mph (568kmh)
edits in bold...
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On the other hand, max sealevel speed for military power and ETC seems to be quite accurate +- 1 mph.
BTW, ETC 504 was very thin and very short, much smaller than ETC 501.
D9 with ETC 504 (http://kits.kitreview.com/fw190d932reviewjc_1.htm)
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Wotan, if these are IL2 deck speeds, they seem quite exagerated. 680 kph on the deck for D9 are 422 mph.
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Originally posted by MANDO
Really?
Dora speed WITH ETC 504 (curve 4, 3250 rpm mit MW50) (http://www.terra.es/personal2/matias.s/d9speed2chart.jpg)
605 kmh (376 mph) WITH RACK.
All I can tell you is what I tested in AH, which was 367 with the rack (dropped the DT on takeoff) and 375-6 without it (de-selecting the DT in the hangar). I have no idea what its supposed to be, only what I saw.
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Wotan, if these are IL2 deck speeds, they seem quite exagerated. 680 kph on the deck for D9 are 422 mph.
lol cut n paste screw up figures fixed now...
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Maybe our Dora still has the ETC501 and not the ETC504?
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According to german documents speed loss below critical altitude for ETC504 12km/h and 8km/h above critical alt.
So 8mph is reasonable.
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All we have to do now is wait for the Ponies and Tiffies to get their racks updated. LaLa's are going to become even more dangerous now though.
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Originally posted by GScholz
All we have to do now is wait for the Ponies and Tiffies to get their racks updated. LaLa's are going to become even more dangerous now though.
Hope they also get the front view treatment.