Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Pongo on April 13, 2005, 04:28:06 PM
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"The latest flare-up over history is a result of the Japanese government’s approval of a controversial new textbook for 13 to 15-year-old students. The book refuses to describe Japan’s occupation of Asian countries as an “invasion.” The book also refers to the wartime Nanjing massacre-which killed more than a quarter million Chinese as merely an “incident,” and describes the disputed Senkaku islands as “sovereign territory.”
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from MSNBC
Could you imagine if the Germans tried this?
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I can imagine the russians doing it.. well, I see them doing it.
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Originally posted by Pongo
"The latest flare-up over history is a result of the Japanese government’s approval of a controversial new textbook for 13 to 15-year-old students. The book refuses to describe Japan’s occupation of Asian countries as an “invasion.” The book also refers to the wartime Nanjing massacre-which killed more than a quarter million Chinese as merely an “incident,” and describes the disputed Senkaku islands as “sovereign territory.”
"
from MSNBC
Could you imagine if the Germans tried this?
It's like Boroda's USSR posts on this BBS, only a whole country is doing it..
Go Go Greater East Asia Coprosperity Sphere!!!
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Link ?
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It was all over the news a couple of days ago... some big protest about this in China (Beijing I think)
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It'll be interesting to see how US textbooks treat the Afghanistan/Iraq invasion and occupation when new classroom texts are published, in contrast to what the Euro texts will teach children about it.
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Originally posted by oboe
It'll be interesting to see how US textbooks treat the Afghanistan/Iraq invasion and occupation when new classroom texts are published, in contrast to what the Euro texts will teach children about it.
That'll be about the patriotic freedom war against evil WMD torturer saddam in the US books and the euro books talks about corrupt president who used the 911 as an excuse.
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Originally posted by Fishu
That'll be about the patriotic freedom war against evil WMD torturer saddam in the US books and the euro books talks about corrupt president who used the 911 as an excuse.
and the Euro books would be wrong.
Not about the corrupt president. All polititions no matter the country they are from are corrupt to a certain extent.
Dont kid yourself into thinking otherwise
But 911 was never used as an excuse.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
and the Euro books would be wrong.
Not about the corrupt president. All polititions no matter the country they are from are corrupt to a certain extent.
Dont kid yourself into thinking otherwise
But 911 was never used as an excuse.
Yeah well, at least majority of the western countries doesn't start wars with their corrupt politicians and try to lie to the rest of the world.... AND start a hate campaign against an another country (freedom fries anyone?).
But 911 was used as an excuse, no other reason for the americans to be in Iraq right now.
911 has been ever since used as a terrorist scare card, which was true when Bush told that Saddam had WMD and that he was an al qaida supporter etc. etc.
More than enough exagerrations/lies and all the time the 911 card was showed when someone doubted the stories of Saddam.
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lol
ya - the "whole freedom fries" thing was started in the White House
LOL
who cares what the euros teach their kids - half of it is crap anyways, just like what we teach ours...
true education doesn't start until you leave the "halls of Higher Learning" and get into the real world
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Here's hoping all texts offer both sides of the issue.
I probably sholdn't have grouped all Europe into one class; odds are the British texts will differ in POV from the French.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
But 911 was never used as an excuse.
As much as I oppose the invasion of Iraq, comparing it to Japanese actions in China is just distasteful and wrong.
But Bush totally used the 9/11 attack to press for the invasion of Iraq. Americans right on this board have repeatedly revealed the propoganda effect and connected the two.
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Originally posted by Eagler
ya - the "whole freedom fries" thing was started in the White House
Sure, Bush didn't begin saying 'freedom fries', but he started the 'bash the french' -movement.
He openly mocked the french, even referred to their decisions with the word "silly", etc. etc.
The other monkeys just followed the bigger monkeys example.
But anyway, the point remains, he pretty much started the mess.
Besides generalizing the european history teaching into something as if everyone is having the same book in europe, is quite different than in the USA.
I don't have any idea what kind of history is taught in different euro countries, except that germans are taught too well to hate their nazi past (now they can't make a difference between the nazi swastika and the finnish insignia, causing many game publishers to censor all and everything which resembles swastika.. damn germans and their censorship laws, the whole europe must suffer).
With the international history, the finnish school books are rather unbiased.
Why would we need to teach propaganda to ourselves, when we're too small of a nation for that :D
However I have noticed more "propaganda" in the US school books.
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Originally posted by Fishu
With the international history, the finnish school books are rather unbiased.
Unless your books are written by non-humans i doubt this statement is true...
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Originally posted by Fishu
Yeah well, at least majority of the western countries doesn't start wars with their corrupt politicians and try to lie to the rest of the world.... AND start a hate campaign against an another country (freedom fries anyone?).
But 911 was used as an excuse, no other reason for the americans to be in Iraq right now.
911 has been ever since used as a terrorist scare card, which was true when Bush told that Saddam had WMD and that he was an al qaida supporter etc. etc.
More than enough exagerrations/lies and all the time the 911 card was showed when someone doubted the stories of Saddam.
ummm, I take it that the 12 +years of SH blatently lying about and curcumventing the UN mandates levied agianst him did'nt have anything to do with it ?
And the fact that the French goverment helped SH buy weapons ( which were used agianst the US troops) and sell oil "under the table" had nothing to do with the average american being pissed off at the french,after we saved their butts TWICE in the past 80 years?
The main thing to look at here is the wave of freedom that is sweeping the middle east.
It is still too early to see it clearly, but it is happening, and Bush will go down in history as the man who started it all.
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Originally posted by Fishu
AND start a hate campaign against an another country (freedom fries anyone?).
Thats just ridiculous, how can you complain about a silly stunt like "freedom fries" as evidence of unique US adminstration hostility to other westrern governments when the French and German leaders basically ran elections on a campaign of "I oppose america and i think Bush is demented" - all to appleal to masses of US haters in thir countries...
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what's so hard to believe about it? it's only recently that we have begun to conceded some of the attrocities committed upon the indians in our western expansion.
its sad, but its par for the course.
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Originally posted by Flit
And the fact that the French goverment helped SH buy weapons ( which were used agianst the US troops)
Lie and lie.
and sell oil "under the table"
[/B]
Some American were involved too.
had nothing to do with the average american being pissed off at the french,after we saved their butts TWICE in the past 80 years?[/B]
You don't know history plus you can't coun't.
The main thing to look at here is the wave of freedom that is sweeping the middle east.[/B]
:rofl see the following quote.
It is still too early to see it clearly, but it is happening, [/B]
Speaking out of your [beep] ?
and Bush will go down in history as the man who started it all. [/B]
go down ... exactly what will happen.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Thats just ridiculous, how can you complain about a silly stunt like "freedom fries" as evidence of unique US adminstration hostility to other westrern governments when the French and German leaders basically ran elections on a campaign of "I oppose america and i think Bush is demented" - all to appleal to masses of US haters in thir countries...
Wrong and wrong.
I remember some proud member of the Us congress posing near the "menu"*
And no French leader ran an election on the "I oppose america and i think Bush is demented".
Except if you are speaking of Le Pen but the election were in 2002 and the war in 2003
* I can use a French word ? :p
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Schroder only won because he turned his campaign into Bush bashing festival...
What's really wrong is your refusal to ackgnowge that teh hostility is reciprocal and mutual and not simply borne out of evil amreekan evilness.
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Originally posted by Pongo
"The latest flare-up over history is a result of the Japanese government’s approval of a controversial new textbook for 13 to 15-year-old students. The book refuses to describe Japan’s occupation of Asian countries as an “invasion.” The book also refers to the wartime Nanjing massacre-which killed more than a quarter million Chinese as merely an “incident,” and describes the disputed Senkaku islands as “sovereign territory.”
"
from MSNBC
Could you imagine if the Germans tried this?
The truth is though, this isnt that big of a deal. Kids nowdays have the internet. It would be a big deal if this was happening back in the 80s when some of us were in school. But it is not. Kids will find a way to find out the truth though the internet. I also know they get the history channel over there too. So I am sure it will all come out.
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Originally posted by Pongo
As much as I oppose the invasion of Iraq, comparing it to Japanese actions in China is just distasteful and wrong.
I gotta agree with this. It makes me think people are just too young to fathom what went on in Asia prior to 1944. Attempting to compare it to anything in the last 20 years (with the possible exception of parts of Africa) highlights that skewed perspective.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Schroder only won because he turned his campaign into Bush bashing festival...
What's really wrong is your refusal to ackgnowge that teh hostility is reciprocal and mutual and not simply borne out of evil amreekan evilness.
Heuuuuu no I just find funny to hate you GRUN :),personnally I don't think it's reciprocital or mutual.
I just think the amount of idiot is a constant in th universe :)
Btw I didn't knew about Schröeder campaign (and frankly I didn't folowed his campaign at all)
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Frogs are icky...
Take taht!!!!
:lol
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Ouch it hurt !
By despair I'll now eat some frog legs :D
It was the planned menu anyway :)
I'll eat some spicy chinese frog leg for a change with some noodles
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No babies today Straffo?
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nope , they didn't looked fresh enought.
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Originally posted by straffo
Ouch it hurt !
By despair I'll now eat some frog legs :D
It was the planned menu anyway :)
I'll eat some spicy chinese frog leg for a change with some noodles
On top of everything, the French now admit to being cannibals...
Despicable. :)
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
when the French and German leaders basically ran elections on a campaign of "I oppose america and i think Bush is demented" - all to appleal to masses of US haters in thir countries...
That of course had nothing to do with Bush's actions, right?
Besides there isn't masses of US haters.
Though.. whatever you like to think in your hate and scare paranoia.
It's a free world, people are entitled to disagree, got a problem with that?
To think about it; maybe the USA isn't that democratic and free after all, when people expects other people to think alike or be the enemy.
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I'm sure the millions in western europe rallyiong aginst the us right of self defense and holding up america is the terrorist signs really love the USA.
It's funny I didnt see millions in the USA go protest to think that europe not supporting our point of view on iraq made europens the terrorists or made euro leaders like hitler... but I see plenty of that from you oh so tolerant of other views europeans...
Plus where is this standrad euro outrgae towrds dissent and protests, or does that only come out when the one being protested gainst is a bush basher like the dixie chicks band. Then protest is labeled as supression of free speech by you guys..
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"rallyiong aginst the us right of self defense "
and so we go full circle.
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LOL i thought that line was worth adding at the last moment. :)
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Originally posted by Fishu
To think about it; maybe the USA isn't that democratic and free after all, when people expects other people to think alike or be the enemy.
Though rather extreme, there is actually a hint of truth to that statement. We've all witnessed it on this board. Fortunatly, they are a minority.
It has happened throughout history. Happened after Pearl Harbor, will happen again.
People get scared and overreact. Before 911 the Patriot act would have been unthinkable. Same with Gitmo.
Given time, the pendulum will eventually swing back the other way.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
or made euro leaders like hitler...
So the americans needs the right for their own?
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Anthrax Flea Bombs..WAY TO GO JAPAN!!!
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Hmm.. the europeans aren't doing anything?
Well.. lets see, Bush... or the USA.. whichever you prefer, started an illegal war, is imprisoning people without charges or lawyer nor any kind of rights, all the time strictens the laws in the USA...
Yeah.. thats it, we need to rid a dictator.
Let's us europeans go free the americans of the dictator Bush!
Then nobody can say we DIDN'T do anything.
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Originally posted by GreenCloud
funny thing ..French and a whole lot of Europr will always be none for doing nothing,,,,and waitng for the USA to use our bloood and money to save there azzzezs...typical..
Funny reading about the War In North Africa..and Hwo crappy the French Commanders were...
Be sure to read about the US commander Freydendahl(sp?) and the Battle of Kasserine Pass. The French didn't have a monopoly on crap.
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Originally posted by GreenCloud
Funny reading about the War In North Africa..and Hwo crappy the French Commanders were...
What book are you reading ?
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Fishu do you and friends really live in a world where you think Bush is a dictator like Saddam or Hitler?
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Originally posted by soda72
Unless your books are written by non-humans i doubt this statement is true...
If those dudes would write some books they would make a pile. If wish they would start a newspaper too
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Originally posted by Fishu
Yeah.. thats it, we need to rid a dictator.
Let's us europeans go free the americans of the dictator Bush!
Then nobody can say we DIDN'T do anything.
Ohh c'mere and try. PLEASE try.
Between our rednecks and street gangs alone you wouldnt stand a chance.
Hell our military could sit that one out and just watch:lol
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Drediock in Finland military service is mandatory; practically speaking every +20y guy and few gals have been serving their time in our Defence Forces.
I still believe military training gives better chances in battlefield than playing Gangsta and occasionally shooting someone in the city.
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Originally posted by Fishu
Yeah.. thats it, we need to rid a dictator.
Let's us europeans go free the americans of the dictator Bush!
Then nobody can say we DIDN'T do anything.
:rofl
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Originally posted by Staga
Drediock in Finland military service is mandatory; practically speaking every +20y guy and few gals have been serving their time in our Defence Forces.
I still believe military training gives better chances in battlefield than playing Gangsta and occasionally shooting someone in the city.
And if you honestly beleive that. then you've never been to Harlem. Or spent any time in our inner cities
Our "Gangsta's" live in near battlfeild conditions. For them its a way of life. Many joining and participating at a very early age.
Many have to prove themselves by killing before they can even join.
Hell on experiance alone our common street thugs probably have most of your armed sevices beat.
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If that's the case then I'm glad your government doesn't use "gangstas" when dealing with oversea issues; that would be too unfair :)
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Our "Gangsta's" live in near battlfeild conditions. For them its a way of life. Many joining and participating at a very early age.
Many have to prove themselves by killing before they can even join.
I'd say hit & runs are a little different than what its like in the battlefield between two conventional armies.
Besides they hardly have any experience with the usage of explosives and tactics involving explosives, are they going to whip the tanks with their MAC's? :D
Gangsta wars involves different tactics, its more like guerrilla warfare.
In a conventional battlefield they'd be probably a disorganized bunch of thug, each for their own life.
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Straffo...................... .........
Giraud
Darlan
Petain
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Juin
Leclerc
de Gaulle
DRAW !
:lol
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I thought this thread was about japanese schoolbooks denying their actions in WW2. But it turned immediately to denigration of US by some idiots.
Vitun ääliöt.
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Originally posted by prkele
I thought this thread was about japanese schoolbooks denying their actions in WW2. But it turned immediately to denigration of US by some idiots.
Vitun ääliöt.
Still about the schoolbooks, just to point out it isn't just the japanese.
Hienoa tehdä ääliöakkountti tuon sanomiseen, ääliö :D
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Hard to believe that Japan is still officialy denying thier actions in WW2.
Not particularly hard to believe really. Many if not all countries indulge in mythologising, false rationalisation and often straight-up denial over their war time achievements, failures, motivations and culpabilities. Should Japan be any different just because they lost?
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Originally posted by Staga
If that's the case then I'm glad your government doesn't use "gangstas" when dealing with oversea issues; that would be too unfair :)
LOL not all gang shootings are drivebys. You watch too much TV
And Tanks are not great weapons for use in a city envoronment.
Actually I always thought that would be an outstanding idea. and a much more productive sentance for Gangstas as opposed to prison.
They want o be in a gang? Make em be a part of the baddest gang in the world.
They want to fight,shoot and kill? Send em to where the fighting is.
I'm sure street experiance has probably helped to save more then one soldier in combat
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japan still hasn't come to terms with Korea and other Asian countries regarding their Comfort Women, so why would this be any different? Well, other than the seven Dutch women they admitted were abducted, no other country has been alologized to.
Nothing to see here, move along, business as usual in the Land of the Rising Sun
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And you turned it personal, fishu
Alakaa tosissaan hävettään olla suomalainen
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dred.. if the "gangstas" are such good soldiers why is that they can't hit the broad side of a barn and they care more about how they look holding the gun than how it functions? If I ever have to get into another gunfight I hope it is against those buffons.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
dred.. if the "gangstas" are such good soldiers why is that they can't hit the broad side of a barn and they care more about how they look holding the gun than how it functions? If I ever have to get into another gunfight I hope it is against those buffons.
lazs
I think you'd be in for a very unpleasent surprise
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I think that many sociologists would agree with dred.
If you want beurocrat soldiers then go to blue collar families.
You want killers get street criminals or farm boys.
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Originally posted by prkele
And you turned it personal, fishu
Alakaa tosissaan hävettään olla suomalainen
When doesnt he? :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Fishu
AND start a hate campaign against an another country (freedom fries anyone?).
Well... in all Fairness the French are a bunch of cheese eating surrender monkeys who wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for the US (Twice).
If I'm not mistaken they also bathe infrequently and are rude.
:lol
Woof
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
I think you'd be in for a very unpleasent surprise
Dude.... they can't shoot for $h_t. If they are more than 3 feet apart then they hit children. :(
Woof
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Originally posted by prkele
And you turned it personal, fishu
Alakaa tosissaan hävettään olla suomalainen
Lopeta jo nyssyily, tiedän nyt kuka olet.
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Originally posted by SkyWolf
Dude.... they can't shoot for $h_t.
Woof
And just how would you know that?
They must be able to aim reasonably well. They manage to kill enough of each other.
Even our own well trained soldeirs manage to unintentionally shoot women and children from time to time.
As do our cops.
there was a case here that made national news several years ago not 5 miles from me of a jewlery store heist.
The store owners was/is a cop and his wife.
The owner decided to pull out his gun and defend his store and ended up shooting and killing his wife by mistake.
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Eipä oo tullu tähän ikään vielä nyssyiltyä niinku jotkut, tuskinpa tiijät kuka oon.
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Päätellen kielenkäytöstä joku alaikäinen. Oliskohan sun syytä katsoa peiliin ennenkuin alat neuvomaan muita kuinka tulee käyttäytyä?
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
And just how would you know that?
I watch Cops and read the newspaper.
They must be able to aim reasonably well. They manage to kill enough of each other.
Whatever...:rolleyes: they do manage to hit each other from 3 feet away on occasion..... but mostly they spray bullets around the neighborhood and kill innocent people.
I happen to shoot recreationally. I know how hard it is to hit things. And I CAN do it. Those oscarwipes can't hit jack poo poo.
Woof
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And still it gets worse. Now the US has issued a warning to all its citizens in China that the protests might turn against all foreigners.
This isnt just about textbooks, and I seriously doubt it has come to this level entirely on its own. Somebody is stirring this pot rather vigorously methinks.
BEIJING, China(CNN) Several thousand Chinese have taken to the streets in Shanghai in a protest against Japan, with some throwing plastic bottles and tomatoes at the office of the consulate general, officials said.
Recent angry anti-Japan protests in China have centered on Japan's approval of history books that downplay its World War II aggression and what China considers Japan's failure to admit atrocities.
China is also opposed to Japan's gaining a permanent seat on the United Nations Security Council, something the country is hoping to do.
A spokesman for the Japanese embassy in Beijing told CNN the Shanghai protesters were throwing plastic bottles and tomatoes at the consulate general's office, but did not have any information on damage.
Protesters were also singing nationalist songs and shouting slogans demanding the boycott of Japanese goods.
U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan has called for Beijing and Tokyo to calm their flare-up.
"I think the two countries, I hope, will maintain their contacts, and they have a whole series of contests -- commercial, financial, political, and all this," Annan said on Thursday.
"And I hope this issue will be handled in a manner that will not escalate. I rely on the wisdom of the two countries to find a way out."
Annan's call came as the United States warned its citizens in China to be on guard, saying protests planned this weekend could turn against all foreigners.
"The demonstrations are purportedly against Japanese interests, but could involve foreigners in general."
The weekend protests, which seemed to have tacit state support, also targeted Japan's U.N. Security Council bid.
Annan has said he wants to expand the Security Council to better reflect current global political realities, including better representation from the developing world.
But China, a permanent member already, is opposed to Japan getting a seat.
The U.N. chief has called for a decision to be made by September on how to reshape the council. Chinese officials have suggested that time frame is not possible.
In last weekend's protests, which took place in several Chinese cities, thousands of Chinese citizens called for a boycott of Japanese products, burned Japanese flags and shouted anti-Japanese slogans. The protests sparked concern and denunciation from Japan.
Another point of contention is Tokyo's decision to issue drilling rights in a disputed area of the East China Sea.
Japan on Wednesday said it would award deep-sea gas exploration rights in the disputed zone to private companies, a move Chinese Foreign Ministry Spokesman Qin Gang called a "serious provocation."
Both governments disagree on the boundary and both claim the gas deposits. China has already begun exploring the fields, in a move Tokyo says extends into its zone.
Japanese foreign minister Nobutaka Machimura is expected to go to Beijing this weekend to discuss the fraying ties.
China has stood firm so far, with Premier Wen Jiabao telling reporters in New Delhi on Tuesday Japan must "face up to history squarely."
On Tuesday Japanese Trade Minister Shoichi Nakagawa said he was concerned about the impact of the Chinese sentiment on Japanese companies, one day after Koizumi called the protests "regrettable" and urged the Chinese to protect the nation's citizens.
"Yes, I'm worried ... they're a country that's trying to become a market economy and we need them to take a proper response," Nakagawa told a news conference.
"It's a scary country."
Japan's leaders have so far apologized to China on no fewer than 17 occasions since the two nations restored diplomatic ties in 1972, according to The Economist Global Agenda.
Japan is now also widely regarded as a model nation -- a pacificist democracy that donates large sums of money to the United Nations and the World Bank.
But the textbook row has only exacerbated a deep-seated ill-will. Of 1,000 Chinese in major cities surveyed in a telephone poll by the independent Social Survey Institute of China, nearly all said the textbook move was an insult, with most saying it was "open provocation," Reuters reported.
The tensions can be traced back to Japan's military campaigns in the last century. Japan invaded Manchuria in 1931, and occupied various parts of China until 1945.
In particular, Chinese say Tokyo plays down 1937's "Nanjing massacre." When that city fell to the Japanese Imperial Army, tens of thousands of civilians and prisoners of war were killed.
There is also much resentment of Japan's WWII practice of forcing women from China and other parts of Asia to become sex slaves for its soldiers.
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SOA speaketh the truth:
These textbooks have been around since Methusela was a young 'un.
Much easier to be able to blame one's shortcomings on others. Almost as easy as denying them.
Takes one's mind off the Great Leap Forward, or domestic corruption in general.
Look! Look at the silly monkey!
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All such assertions are nonsense as long as the text books and the denials exist and are the standard line from Japan.
And they get mad at us for saying "jap"
give me a friggen break.
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The new textbooks arent denying anything. They simply gloss over what happened. And its only middle school aged kids who would be affected. High school age kids will still have the older style textbooks. This sort of "history lesson" was being introduced at middle school ages, and they decided those kids were too young. They arent lying to anyone, they simply decided not to tell 10-12 year old children just how bad great grandfather was. Japan has repeatedly given official apologies to China for what that generation did, and have been a model democratic society ever since. How many generations do you want to see grovel in front of the world before they are allowed to have a little dignity again? Granted, some of the officials in charge in Tokyo could have a little more tact in dealing with this, but its really amazing how quickly even we Americans fall for the Propaganda machine the communists use so very effectively.
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But the textbook row has only exacerbated a deep-seated ill-will. Of 1,000 Chinese in major cities surveyed in a telephone poll by the independent Social Survey Institute of China, nearly all said the textbook move was an insult, with most saying it was "open provocation," Reuters reported.
What does an 'open provocation' justify as a response?
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Stagalle. Ja mistäköhän löysit tuon neuvomisjutun? Juu alaikänenhän minä, vasta 27 vuotta palomiehenä Oulun palolaitoksella
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Originally posted by SkyWolf
I watch Cops and read the newspaper.
They must be able to aim reasonably well. They manage to kill enough of each other.
Whatever...:rolleyes: they do manage to hit each other from 3 feet away on occasion..... but mostly they spray bullets around the neighborhood and kill innocent people.
I happen to shoot recreationally. I know how hard it is to hit things. And I CAN do it. Those oscarwipes can't hit jack poo poo.
Woof
Ohhh he watches "cops"
LOL Every cop I personally know claims that is one of the most unrealistic shows out there. They view it more as a comedy.
News papers as do the rest of the media report stories they way they want to report them and they usually dont let the truth stand in the way of a good story.
You shoot recreationally. But have you ever shot at a person? And was that person shooting or potentially have the ability of shooting back?
Target shooting and people shooting are two completely different things
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Originally posted by prkele
Stagalle. Ja mistäköhän löysit tuon neuvomisjutun? Juu alaikänenhän minä, vasta 27 vuotta palomiehenä Oulun palolaitoksella
No et kuitenkaan ole vielä oppinut käyttäytymään aikuisten lailla? No ehkäpä viellä joskus.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Target shooting and people shooting are two completely different things
To add..
Hit & run killings and battlefield killings are two completely different things
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No et kuitenkaan ole vielä oppinut käyttäytymään aikuisten lailla? No ehkäpä viellä joskus.
??????????????????? Perustele.
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Originally posted by prkele
No et kuitenkaan ole vielä oppinut käyttäytymään aikuisten lailla? No ehkäpä viellä joskus.
??????????????????? Perustele.
Useat kysymysmerkit ja se ettet ole vieläkään lopettanut tätä turhan päiväistä asiaa, jota ei olisi tarvinnut edes aloittaa niin lapsellisella tavalla, käyvät perusteluista
Meitä fiksumpana osaat vissiin lopettaa jankuttamisen.
Now back to english...
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Ohhh he watches "cops"
LOL Every cop I personally know claims that is one of the most unrealistic shows out there. They view it more as a comedy.
News papers as do the rest of the media report stories they way they want to report them and they usually dont let the truth stand in the way of a good story.
You actually responded to that? Comical. Allthough you stubbornly standing behind the assertion that these folks would make the ultimate fighting force is about as funny as it gets. You trying to convince me that the stories of the innocent victims being killed are somehow fabricated is even more ridiculous. Trust me when I say I know a bit more about this than you do.
You shoot recreationally. But have you ever shot at a person? And was that person shooting or potentially have the ability of shooting back?
Target shooting and people shooting are two completely different things
That's true. However having a working knowledge of firearms and the ability to hit SOMETHING SOMETIME gives me a bit more insight into the matter than you will ever have. If you can't hit a target at more than 5 feet away under any circumstances then you are hardly a viable fighting force.
:rofl
Woof
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And here we have some adult comments, eh :
Päätellen kielenkäytöstä joku alaikäinen. Oliskohan sun syytä katsoa peiliin ennenkuin alat neuvomaan muita kuinka tulee käyttäytyä?
No et kuitenkaan ole vielä oppinut käyttäytymään aikuisten lailla? No ehkäpä viellä joskus.
Useat kysymysmerkit ja se ettet ole vieläkään lopettanut tätä turhan päiväistä asiaa, jota ei olisi tarvinnut edes aloittaa niin lapsellisella tavalla, käyvät perusteluista
Etkä pystynyt perustelemaan noita sanomisia millään kunnollisella tavalla. (3:s lainaus ei ole peruste)
End of story
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OPFPEKF oedfje fnmsokdfiowe2kwåfk wkejfw mwkfjpweåw fjwofw owpå3r
HOW BOUT THAT !!:mad:
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Originally posted by Fishu
Lopeta jo nyssyily, tiedän nyt kuka olet.
I haven't understood a kuka in the above lopeta.:D
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its their verison of leet.. its called shiit :o
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Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
The new textbooks arent denying anything. They simply gloss over what happened. And its only middle school aged kids who would be affected. High school age kids will still have the older style textbooks. This sort of "history lesson" was being introduced at middle school ages, and they decided those kids were too young. They arent lying to anyone, they simply decided not to tell 10-12 year old children just how bad great grandfather was. Japan has repeatedly given official apologies to China for what that generation did, and have been a model democratic society ever since. How many generations do you want to see grovel in front of the world before they are allowed to have a little dignity again? Granted, some of the officials in charge in Tokyo could have a little more tact in dealing with this, but its really amazing how quickly even we Americans fall for the Propaganda machine the communists use so very effectively.
And I still vividly remember how the Japaneese at the sunrise of their history were killing the northeastern aborigine tribes of kumaso and ebisu=ainu (nowadays such killings are called genocide). Ainu were the followers of the ancient Eurasian cult of the Bear, so they were not human in the eyes of the Yamato and Idzumo invaders (preancestors of modern Japaneese).
So, Staro, your words about "communistic Propaganda machine" are a relatively fresh lie.
And it stinks even more, because it's fresh. :rofl
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Originally posted by SkyWolf
You actually responded to that? Comical. Allthough you stubbornly standing behind the assertion that these folks would make the ultimate fighting force is about as funny as it gets. You trying to convince me that the stories of the innocent victims being killed are somehow fabricated is even more ridiculous. Trust me when I say I know a bit more about this than you do.
That's true. However having a working knowledge of firearms and the ability to hit SOMETHING SOMETIME gives me a bit more insight into the matter than you will ever have. If you can't hit a target at more than 5 feet away under any circumstances then you are hardly a viable fighting force.
:rofl
Woof
Never claimed they would make the ultimate fighting force. Though with training they possibly could be.
They do however have the ability to kill without feeling or remorse. And they wont freeze up when being shot at. They will shoot back
Which in itself makes them dangerous even to soldiers.
trust you no.
Doubt you. yes
and you still havent provided any proof that then cant hit anything beyond 5 feet.
the only evidence you have provided is that you watch "cops" which all cops I personally know feel is a joke of a show.
And read the newspapers. Which in my own personal experiance know for fact they report stories the way they want them and not always the way things happened
I also never at any point claimed the stories of innocent vicims werent true. I will however claim that not all shootings are drivebys.
And I will claim that even our own law enforcement and soldiers manage to unintentionally kill innocent victims also.
I am however unimpressed with and reject your claim that because you have a working knowledge of firearms. you have more insight then I.
Seems that a few of our best and bravest have gotten killed in Iraq by people with the same kind of knowledge our gangbangers have. No way you can convince me that most of them are experts with guns.
Your comments overall only lead me to beleive that you would underestimate these people. Because its obvious you have no clue as to their capabilities
Which in turn also leads me to beleive you would probably manage to get yourself killed by them through sheer arrogence.
As for my insight you dont have fantasy of a clue as to exactly how much insight I have.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Never claimed they would make the ultimate fighting force. Though with training they possibly could be.
I said you consider them a viable fighting force. Which you do. READ the posts man and pay attention to what YOU say.
They do however have the ability to kill without feeling or remorse.
This makes them defective humans, not soldiers
And they wont freeze up when being shot at. They will shoot back
Which in itself makes them dangerous even to soldiers.
Yes... I'm sure a bunch of bangers with nines is going to be real effective against trained soldiers. That little insult to the military is too stupid to even bother with.
trust you no.
Doubt you. yes
Oh no. Whatever shall I do?
and you still havent provided any proof that then cant hit anything beyond 5 feet.
Go do some research and watch some films. They scatter and throw bullets around. BFD. Real force to be reckoned with.
the only evidence you have provided is that you watch "cops" which all cops I personally know feel is a joke of a show.
And read the newspapers. Which in my own personal experiance know for fact they report stories the way they want them and not always the way things happened
Oh good. The old "only way to be on top of things is to read nothing" argument. If you read ALL kinds of media from ALL over the world you can learn quite a bit. Means you can believe things other than what your daddy told you.
And.... you explain it then. Why do they miss each other and hit innocent people?
I also never at any point claimed the stories of innocent vicims werent true. I will however claim that not all shootings are drivebys.
I'm not talking about drivebys either. Most of the footage I've seen is goups in a face off firing and scattering.
And I will claim that even our own law enforcement and soldiers manage to unintentionally kill innocent victims also.
You are going to compare the Police to the bangers? God you are a dim bulb.
I am however unimpressed with and reject your claim that because you have a working knowledge of firearms. you have more insight then I.
It's THAN I. And I don't care what you reject, reject.
Seems that a few of our best and bravest have gotten killed in Iraq by people with the same kind of knowledge our gangbangers have. No way you can convince me that most of them are experts with guns.
That's because you are a close minded idiot. Most of these people have training. Once again you speak out of your oscar. Once again you insult our troops by comparing the insurgents to bangers. God I'm tired of you.
Your comments overall only lead me to beleive that you would underestimate these people. Because its obvious you have no clue as to their capabilities
Which in turn also leads me to beleive you would probably manage to get yourself killed by them through sheer arrogence.
As for my insight you dont have fantasy of a clue as to exactly how much insight I have.
If I'm right there's nothing arrogant about it. And I don't want to "have fantasy of a clue" how much insight you lack. You've made it painfully obvious to me.
Woof
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Lmao ok. twist what Im saying around to suit your point.
You must work for the media.
You DID claim that I thought they were the "ultimate fighting force" you might want to look back yourself.
I never insulted the military cept in your own imagination.
My comparing cops to gangbangers was only to point out that even those with training manage to UNINTENTIONALLY hit innocents.
The jewelry store where the robbery happened that I mentioned I've been in. The cops longest shot was MAYBE 10 feet. He fired 6 shots wounded only 1 of the robbers and managed to hit and kill his own wife.
So much for accuracy through training and having a working knowledge of firearms
Thats a fact. offended by it? tough
And now I see you have decided to degrade yourself to the infantile level of namecalling so this is where the debate ends.
But hey I'll give it to you. I didnt realise you had seen some films. And I had forgotten how Palm Harbor, FL was such a bastion of gangbangers where shootings were such an every day occurrence.
So you win you have far far more insight then I.
You may go on and get the last word in I'll let ya. You just know you have to
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Thats a fact. offended by it? tough
Offended by you?
And I had forgotten how Palm Harbor, FL was such a bastion of gangbangers where shootings were such an every day occurrence.
Actually, it's right next to Tampa... and while admittedly not Detroit... it ain't Mayberry either.
So you win you have far far more insight then I.
Thank you. You are correct. And once again it's THAN not THEN. Edumacation much?
You may go on and get the last word in I'll let ya. You just know you have to
Thanks... I appreciate it. Now you be sure not to reply OK?
Woof
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Originally posted by genozaur
And I still vividly remember how the Japaneese at the sunrise of their history were killing the northeastern aborigine tribes of kumaso and ebisu=ainu (nowadays such killings are called genocide). Ainu were the followers of the ancient Eurasian cult of the Bear, so they were not human in the eyes of the Yamato and Idzumo invaders (preancestors of modern Japaneese).
So, Staro, your words about "communistic Propaganda machine" are a relatively fresh lie.
And it stinks even more, because it's fresh. :rofl
Never claimed the Japenese were blameless, or that they didnt do the things they were accused of. They did. And a whole lot of other things that most folks have either forgotten or choose not to educate themselves about. All modern nations have done things in the past that they arent so proud of today. No one is blameless. What I'm saying is, I dont expect the grandchildren and great grandchildren of the men who did those things to pay the price of their dignity. No one needs to forget what happened, but its time to forgive and move on. An apology was offered. More than once. There is no lie or coverup here to require a new one. The Chinese govornment is publicly calling for the cessation of violence, but seems to be approving of it not so publicly. Seems to me they are deliberately stirring this old pot to a boil to distract the world while the Taiwan issue comes to a head. If they can force the US to take sides and use the issue to try to draw lines for the sake of those living in Taiwan, so much the better. Such things woud not be so out of character for China either. And if you think they arent used to cranking out propaganda (just like every other major country in the world), then the stank you are smelling is the rotting meat smell coming out your ears from the dead matter between them. You seem like an intelligent person. Use the brains you were born with to examine the situation objectively, instead of trying to come up with trite phrases to attack people who you dont agree with whatever preconceived notions you might have.
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All this over the Chinese govt. drumming up some anti-japanese sentiment...
Tronsky
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Originally posted by -tronski-
All this over the Chinese govt. drumming up some anti-japanese sentiment...
Tronsky
Yup.
The Chinese won't allow demonstrations, peacefull or otherwise unless they are controlling them.
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Prkele; siinä vaiheessa kun lopetit yhden ensimmäisistä postauksistasi sanoihin "vitun ääliöt" tuli aika selväksi että olet joko alaikäinen tai et ole muuten vaan oppinut elämäsi varrella kuinka vieraita puhutellaan.
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are you sure about that Staga?
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
And if you honestly beleive that. then you've never been to Harlem. Or spent any time in our inner cities
Our "Gangsta's" live in near battlfeild conditions. For them its a way of life. Many joining and participating at a very early age.
Many have to prove themselves by killing before they can even join.
Hell on experiance alone our common street thugs probably have most of your armed sevices beat.
Mayors of sutch towns are Dictators rebbels and threat to world peace.
World need free towns!
Lets save the people, drop there napalm.
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Originally posted by NUKE
Yup.
The Chinese won't allow demonstrations, peacefull or otherwise unless they are controlling them.
Intelectual in the livingroom ?
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Originally posted by -tronski-
All this over the Chinese govt. drumming up some anti-japanese sentiment...
Tronsky
It's not really that simple - there's no direct pay off for the Chinese Government: they can only lose from extended Sino-Japanese tension. Both China & Japan desperately need each other economically at the moment. China needs Japan's investments, and Japan needs China's market.
On the whole, I think this is a grass roots movement of hatred against Japan, which the Chinese government is letting slide, because it's safer and more stable to have people protest Japan than to not allow them.
There are so many non-government sanctioned, uncontrolled demonstrations and riots in China these days (sorry Nuke), that having a few that are aimed elsewhere is probably viewed as good and cathartic. And whilst the Chinese government cannot afford to anger the people by not taking a tough stance against Japan, it can't afford to anger Japan by sanctioning the demonstrations either.
Were it to have its own way, the CCP would lean towards squashing the demonstrations. But in realpolitik, it has to tread the thin line it is at the moment: trying to ban the demonstrations without looking like they are. Were they government sanctioned, the demonstrations would be on the CCTV news. They are not.
However, there are several factors to this, other than the schoolbooks (which also led to protests in Korea and Hong Kong) that are at play here: Japan joined the US in pledging the defence of an independent Taiwan, which is touchy subject #1: if you want to get the Chinese angry that's the one to do it, every time. This also adds fuel to the fear of a resurgent militarism in Japan, with the JSDF being given more power leading to fears of dropping the whole "SD" act all together. Add on a permenant UNSC seat, and it gets worse. Then there are economic (oil & gas field exploration in disputed waters) and nationalistic (Diaoyu Islands free-for-all) problems too.
And of course the Chinese leadership are every bit as rabidly patriotic as the US leadership, or any other country's leadership, so being down on Japan for that is not exactly a surprise. And indeed so are is the Japanese leadership, so their stance is not helping much, either: sanctioning the schoolbooks will always be viewed as a gesture of bad faith on their part.
Calling on China to accept responsibility for the actions of the protestors is adding fuel to a dispute which for the protestors centres on Japan not accepting responsibilty for their actions.
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Mean old Chinese, had deliberate brutal horrible genocide practiced on them by the polite honerable japs and really dont like it that the japs are teaching another genertion to deny the evil they did in the past.
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Originally posted by Pongo
Mean old Chinese, had deliberate brutal horrible genocide practiced on them by the polite honerable japs and really dont like it that the japs are teaching another genertion to deny the evil they did in the past.
That is the truth of the matter right there. The frightening example of the inhumanity of what the Japanese inflicted on the people of China is still vividly remembered by the older population and flows down to the younger as well. Apparently it takes a few years to get over watching your sister get gang raped and your family members being wiped out right before your eyes.
Woof
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Originally posted by Nilsen
are you sure about that Staga?
If guy ends his post to words "f__ing idiots" he's either underaged or just doesn't know how to interact with people.
I'm pretty sure about it.
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Yes that was a mistake.
Now, I have to say this because of your personal attack :
Stadiilaiset on paskahousuja. KÄRPÄT!!!!
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Yeah.
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Originally posted by -dead-
It's not really that simple - there's no direct pay off for the Chinese Government: they can only lose from extended Sino-Japanese tension. Both China & Japan desperately need each other economically at the moment. China needs Japan's investments, and Japan needs China's market.
On the whole, I think this is a grass roots movement of hatred against Japan, which the Chinese government is letting slide, because it's safer and more stable to have people protest Japan than to not allow them.
There are so many non-government sanctioned, uncontrolled demonstrations and riots in China these days (sorry Nuke), that having a few that are aimed elsewhere is probably viewed as good and cathartic. And whilst the Chinese government cannot afford to anger the people by not taking a tough stance against Japan, it can't afford to anger Japan by sanctioning the demonstrations either.
Were it to have its own way, the CCP would lean towards squashing the demonstrations. But in realpolitik, it has to tread the thin line it is at the moment: trying to ban the demonstrations without looking like they are. Were they government sanctioned, the demonstrations would be on the CCTV news. They are not.
However, there are several factors to this, other than the schoolbooks (which also led to protests in Korea and Hong Kong) that are at play here: Japan joined the US in pledging the defence of an independent Taiwan, which is touchy subject #1: if you want to get the Chinese angry that's the one to do it, every time. This also adds fuel to the fear of a resurgent militarism in Japan, with the JSDF being given more power leading to fears of dropping the whole "SD" act all together. Add on a permenant UNSC seat, and it gets worse. Then there are economic (oil & gas field exploration in disputed waters) and nationalistic (Diaoyu Islands free-for-all) problems too.
And of course the Chinese leadership are every bit as rabidly patriotic as the US leadership, or any other country's leadership, so being down on Japan for that is not exactly a surprise. And indeed so are is the Japanese leadership, so their stance is not helping much, either: sanctioning the schoolbooks will always be viewed as a gesture of bad faith on their part.
Calling on China to accept responsibility for the actions of the protestors is adding fuel to a dispute which for the protestors centres on Japan not accepting responsibilty for their actions.
Admittedly I oversimplified the situation by only focusing on the textbook issue, because that was the reported cause of the original riots. Now it has expanded to anti-Japanese politics. Or perhaps it was all along and we just didnt get things right at first. Our news outlets here arent exactly innocent when it comes to filtering what they report either.
I was not aware that the news programs there were not covering the riots. The reports I had read indicated (did not come out and specify though) that it was a well reported situation within China. It's hard to get good firsthand news of anything here. Your explanation of the gov.'s position does make sense. I still think the Chinese gov. will use the situation to try to drive a wedge between the US and Japan, and more especially to try to keep them off the UN Security Council. I guess time will tell. Thanks for the clarifications.
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Originally posted by SkyWolf
That's true. However having a working knowledge of firearms and the ability to hit SOMETHING SOMETIME gives me a bit more insight into the matter than you will ever have. If you can't hit a target at more than 5 feet away under any circumstances then you are hardly a viable fighting force.
:rofl
Woof
Skywolf, the only thing your sure to hit when you shoot is your foot. You've shot yourself in it often enough in this thread as proof.
A Police Officer will use lethal force in times of high stress. You cant simulate that shooting a bunny.
Auditory and Visual exclusion set in. Tunnel vision if you prefer for both sight and sound. The body dumps as much adrenalin into it as it can fit. Blood is drawn away from the extremeties and pulled back into the core of the body to ensure the major organs have enough oxygen for flight or fight. The fine motor skills of the brain that you enjoy every day for simple tasks, shut down and simple things like racking back a slide on a pistol are effected and must be combated by means such as repetetive training.
Marksmanship and instinctive shooting involve very different principles and under times of great stress, unlike the movies, even the best can miss at 3 metres. I know. I teach them to shoot under stress every single week.
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Originally posted by scspook
Skywolf, the only thing your sure to hit when you shoot is your foot. You've shot yourself in it often enough in this thread as proof.
Think so? My points have been:
1. It's hard enough to hit anything period. No banger is going to excel in a 6 man shoot out with bullets whizzing about. Yeah... they might hit something... but chances are it's going to be some kid across the street. If you have any connection to law enforment then you know that.
2. No group of bangers is going to make a viable fighting force against trained solders. It's ludicrous to even suggest it.
That's what I've been saying. For some reason Jersey Boy seems to think that Bangers would make some kind of Uber Soldiers. Is that what you think too? I hope not. They're oscarholes...not soldiers.
You seem to have popped your head up assuming that I'm saying something I'm not? I don't know for sure what it is... but you seem to think that I said I could shoot under duress or something along those lines. I didn't. If you think I did then learn to read. I said I know how hard it is to hit anything at ANYTIME much less in the heat of confrontation.
I don't know why you decided to jump in here and diss me. I'm not the one comparing Banger bullet spraying to a Police Officer hitting an innocent. I also didn't ask for a f__king explanation of why they find it hard to hit anything under duress. I know why. My point was that they CAN'T DO IT. WTF do you think I said?
Sure it's cute and all Chest Puffy for Jersey to brag about Bangers. He's proud of them for some reason. But it's bulls_it pure and simple. So please let me know how I've shot myself in the foot.
Woof
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Originally posted by Fishu
Still about the schoolbooks, just to point out it isn't just the japanese.
Hienoa tehdä ääliöakkountti tuon sanomiseen, ääliö :D
I like the japanese....the French suck, but their irrelevant anyway.
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I have to wonder sometimes why I read these boards. The abuse of the English language suffering from American slang borders on the criminal. Ie; "dissin" "Bangers", "Gangstas" WTF is that? Only bangers I know are sausages with mash and G' Bangers, my prefered item of female enticement.
"Gangsters" ie; those in a gang, usually employ weapons where accuracy is not a definitive factor in their task. Shotguns, Semi auto pistols for example. Spray n pray.
Again, distance plays a factor. You dont find gangsters in fighting lines or formations. Assassination is nice close and personal. Snipers among this breed are few and far between.
I agree with you that they are an ineffective force when it comes to discipline and open shooting matches in the street and I agree with you that because of their style of attack, that the chance of innocents being hit is exceedingly high. I also agree with you that they would stand a snowballs chance in hell against trained troops.
However their style of fighting suits an urban guerrilla type closed environment. They can be effective as a group in this terrain. How long they last is another story.