Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Grendel on April 14, 2005, 03:44:14 AM
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Sometimes you simply hit the jackpot.
I did on Tuesday. There I go to help a local veteran (Brewster, Me 109 pilot) with his lecture, we travel to another town and stop for a coffee - and ding, we are not alone.
(http://www.byterapers.com/~grendel/scan/historia/ylonen_pakarinen_lansivaara_raesma.jpg)
"Hessu" Ylönen, LLv28, LLv24, Morane Saulnier 406 / Messerschmitt 109 pilot
Erkki Pakarinen, LLv24, Brewster / Messerschmitt 109 pilot
Osmo Länsivaara, LLv26, LLv 34, Fiat G.50 / Hurricane / Messerschmitt 109 pilot
Eero Raesma, LLv 28, Morane Saulnier 406 pilot, not sure if he served elsewhere too
Spent nice evening with the chaps, heard some interesting stuff, did a good lecture with mr. Pakarinen to a large audience and all the "new" chaps I didn't know before agreed that I may come to visit them to make interviews.
That was a Tuesday well spent.
Read more:
http://www.virtualpilots.fi/hist/
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Btw, mr. Ylönen and mr. Pakarinen met here first time since 1944.
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wow!
must be amazing to meet pilots who flew and survived in the last great war our world will see.
respect to these men, deep, deep respect.
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Originally posted by mechanic
wow!
must be amazing to meet pilots who flew and survived in the last great war our world will see.
You have never seen the day after Thanksgiving at a Wal-Mart have you?
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Well i would like to respond to this thread but the ensuing drama would not be worth it. I'll say this..I have respect for their piloting ability and militairy prowess..for lack of a better word.
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Pardon my above smartprettythang remark, couldnt seem to help myself. That is really cool Grendel.
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Cool Grendel
, givem a salute for me will ya.
Funny thing , I'm in the process of setting up a little crew of young folks to visit vets and record their past histories. (I'll be kicking the little buggers outta the way the first pilot we find...hehe. )
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are we so infatuated with aviation that we forget these guys were nazis?
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Originally posted by jaxxo
are we so infatuated with aviation that we forget these guys were nazis?
Most soldiers , were nothing but that, soldiers, doing their duty.
I reserve my hatred of german soldiers to certain special units and their leaders, the rest were just soldiers and airmen doing their duty.
Besides, if ya want to be basic about it, isn't any game that's based on the explosive dismemberment of soldiers, men, women, children and dogs kinda off in it's own sick little way?
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are we so infatuated with aviation that we forget these guys were nazis?
They're Finns as in Finland Retardimus Prime.
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Originally posted by jaxxo
are we so infatuated with aviation that we forget these guys were nazis?
Put down the crack pipe.
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Jaxxo,
I suppose you did not really read anything else but "Messerschmitt 109" and then your prejudices and attitudes kicked in, right? Please read more carefully and think again before posting.
Even if these gentlemen were germans, you would really have no grounds or information of their political backgrounds just by looking at their faces or by looking at what planes they had flown, would you?
I hope you stand corrected and accept it!
In any case, please do not turn this thread into a political flame fest!
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Just an idea.
Why dont you ask them if anyone wants to test fly our Me109s and if they can comment on how they handle compared to the real thing.
Would be really cool to have a real WW2 vet test fly the rides we fly.
Tex.
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Originally posted by TexMurphy
Just an idea.
Why dont you ask them if anyone wants to test fly our Fw109s and if they can comment on how they handle compared to the real thing.
Would be really cool to have a real WW2 vet test fly the rides we fly.
Tex.
That's a new kind of bird we getting Tex? :D
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Originally posted by Glasses
That's a new kind of bird we getting Tex? :D
Shhh... ;)
Been too much 190 talk lately...
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Originally posted by mechanic
must be amazing to meet pilots who flew and survived in the last great war our world will see.
Particularly the ones who flew Brewsters!
<>
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yea i want a Fw109 they went mach3 and can turn inside a hoverround and had a 6 barreled 30mm gatlin gun.:rofl
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Originally posted by TexMurphy
Just an idea.
Why dont you ask them if anyone wants to test fly our Me109s and if they can comment on how they handle compared to the real thing.
Would be really cool to have a real WW2 vet test fly the rides we fly.
Tex,
During the conventions we usually have WWII flying vets give lectures, I got to meet the guy who sank the Yamato at one AH con. Anyhow, we invariably invite them into the con room after the lecture and give them some "stick time". Their opinions of the sim are quite varied to be honest.
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Originally posted by TexMurphy
Just an idea.
Why dont you ask them if anyone wants to test fly our Me109s and if they can comment on how they handle compared to the real thing.
Would be really cool to have a real WW2 vet test fly the rides we fly.
It's been done with Warbirds and IL2FB.
(http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/cons/urbanblitz03/pakarinen_fb3t.jpg)
Mr. Pakarinen testing Forgotten Battles (he tried both the Brewster and the Messerschmitt 109).
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Thats really cool seeing him sit there. What was his opinion?
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Originally posted by jaxxo
are we so infatuated with aviation that we forget these guys were nazis?
_____________________________ _____
Jaxxo your vast knowledge on Nazisism is quite unremarkable. It's guys like you that cause wars with your single minded, narrow minded veiws. Before opening your mouth on a subject you obviously know nothing about try picking up a book and reading it, instead of using it for a door stop. But then that would mean you need to be able to read.......opps sorry. :mad:
A big Salute to the Vet Pilots
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Originally posted by jaxxo
are we so infatuated with aviation that we forget these guys were nazis?
I guess someone missed his brain installation appointment.
Your arrogance disgusts me, you just insulted an entire nation.
Tex
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Sorry Grendel for dirtying your outstanding thread by responding to Jaxxo(ff)'s statement.
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Originally posted by FiLtH
Thats really cool seeing him sit there. What was his opinion?
Scroll down the page to "Erkki Pakarinen, Brewster & Me 109 pilot test flying IL2: Forgotten Battles' Brewster ". (http://www.virtualpilots.fi/en/feature/cons/urbanblitz03/#Day_2programme)
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Originally posted by LTARokit
Sorry Grendel for dirtying your outstanding thread by responding to Jaxxo(ff)'s statement.
Nah, there's always the ultra melon who tries to drag down any sensible thing to his level.
Besides, how could they be nazis since there was no NSDAP party in Finland anyway ;-)
But maybe flying American, French, British and Italian planes makes one automatically a Nazy by Jaxxo's standards ;-) Oh, and throw in a German built plane too
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Originally posted by jaxxo
are we so infatuated with aviation that we forget these guys were nazis?
War is over Jax... been that way for a long time. You notice they take German and Japanese accounts of the war on the History Channel all the time.
Also, just because they served in the German military doesn't mean they fully believed and were members of the nazi party. Many of the German soldiers didn't have much of a choice about going to war, and also there were many that did not align with the nazi political agenda.
These guys are a great source of history and put their lives at risk when they had to just like everyone else in WWII.
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Originally posted by Grendel
Sometimes you simply hit the jackpot.
I did on Tuesday. There I go to help a local veteran (Brewster, Me 109 pilot) with his lecture, we travel to another town and stop for a coffee - and ding, we are not alone.
(http://www.byterapers.com/~grendel/scan/historia/ylonen_pakarinen_lansivaara_raesma.jpg)
"Hessu" Ylönen, LLv28, LLv24, Morane Saulnier 406 / Messerschmitt 109 pilot
Erkki Pakarinen, LLv24, Brewster / Messerschmitt 109 pilot
Osmo Länsivaara, LLv26, LLv 34, Fiat G.50 / Hurricane / Messerschmitt 109 pilot
Eero Raesma, LLv 28, Morane Saulnier 406 pilot, not sure if he served elsewhere too
Spent nice evening with the chaps, heard some interesting stuff, did a good lecture with mr. Pakarinen to a large audience and all the "new" chaps I didn't know before agreed that I may come to visit them to make interviews.
That was a Tuesday well spent.
Read more:
http://www.virtualpilots.fi/hist/
Okee, is it just me, or is the guy the farthest on the left seem preoccupied looking at something? There wasn't a pretty young secretary in the room that day or something was there? :D
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My bad, i didnt read close enough. I didnt see we were talking about finnish pilots. A simple "read closer idiot" would have sufficed :D I would like to thank you all for telling me how i feel about the entire war... and the ensuing slander. I made an honest mistake and you jumped me like a pack of dogs on a 3 legged cat. SOme of your responses i deserved for being stupid, but a few were way overboard...edited ...
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Ok after reading the thread again its seems some of you are as confused as I am.Enlighten me please so I dont put my foot in my mouth again.They are fins who flew 109's for the german's correct? I like my history so any web links i would appreciate. I apologize for the stupidity on my part.
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That must have been a great time to actually hear it from the people that were there. I've met countless American Fighter Aces and a couple of German aces, but none form any other countries. The war in Finland doesn't get much press, so it's good to see someone interact with them. Did they talk about their experiences a lot or were they hesitant?
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Originally posted by jaxxo
Ok after reading the thread again its seems some of you are as confused as I am.Enlighten me please so I dont put my foot in my mouth again.They are fins who flew 109's for the german's correct?
Finns flew for Finland. Our pilots did not fly American planes for USA, Italian built planes for Italy or British built planes for Great Britain. Not even captured Soviet planes for SOviet Union.
Airplanes are a commodity, which can be bought, sold and traded as anything else as well. Each owner uses the planes to whatever purpose needed for their country's needs.
You'll find plenty stuff in here:
http://www.virtualpilots.fi/hist/
And some links for other info:
http://hkkk.fi/~yrjola/war/faf/ww2air.html
http://www.sci.fi/~fta/history.htm
http://www.sci.fi/~ambush/faf/faf.html
http://www.ww2wings.com/wings/finland/finlandmain.shtml
http://peacecountry0.tripod.com/brewster.htm
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ty grendel....this statement from an article in your link sums it up..... "the plane is also victim of intentional disinformation, many most persistent urban myths and just ignorance." Good reading.
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Originally posted by jaxxo
ty grendel....this statement from an article in your link sums it up..... "the plane is also victim of intentional disinformation, many most persistent urban myths and just ignorance." Good reading.
Gentlemen of honour, please assist me in reckognizing this thread as one of many that have shown respect for flyers and airmen from various countries that have given the ultimate sacrifice.
gents.
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NP, Bumba. :)
<> Gentlemen!
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Originally posted by jaxxo
Ok after reading the thread again its seems some of you are as confused as I am.Enlighten me please so I dont put my foot in my mouth again.They are fins who flew 109's for the german's correct? I like my history so any web links i would appreciate. I apologize for the stupidity on my part.
My first post so please forgive any lack of style or etiquette. Jaxxo, prior to WWII Finland lost a short war against Russia, and so aligned with Germany once conflict broke out between the Germans and Russians. Purely an alignment with the devil to try to recover what was lost in their war with Russia.
In that ealier conflict, initially the Finns kicked Russian butt, but the Russians came back for more and overpowered the much smaller country, exacting territorial losses on Finland as a result.
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Originally posted by Panzzer
NP, Bumba. :)
<> Gentlemen!
You da man Panzzer, and thanks again for the map u sent me,. I'm almost done with that painting.
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Originally posted by jaxxo
are we so infatuated with aviation that we forget these guys were nazis?
Not all of them..... One of General Yager's "very closest friends is General Gunther Rall ". ( 3rd highest scoring German Fighter Pilot in WW II ) I'm sure General Yager is a good judge of people .....
You can see General Yager refer to this on the Military Channel , in Target Berlin ........
Also, one of my best Friends Dad, was forced to either join the SS , or get shot dead ! He joined , after the war he moved here became an American Citizen .
Take a look at this website.....
http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/photoreports/guntherrall2003/
Regards
CHECKERS
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Originally posted by Sloehand
Jaxxo, prior to WWII Finland lost a short war against Russia, and so aligned with Germany once conflict broke out between the Germans and Russians. Purely an alignment with the devil to try to recover what was lost in their war with Russia.
Well, this history isn't really the subject of this topic here, but I'd like to clarify in short, that the "alignment" happened before Germany attacked SU. What happened, was that in spring/summer 1940 Germany guaranteed Finnish independency, in a way, against further Soviet aggression. This was a 180 degree reversal on German policy, since Germany was allied to SU during the Winter War. Germany's guarantee prevented "Winter War II", that Soviet Union was preparing for - they were preparing for new war against FInland to begin in autumm/winter 1940. They were, in a way, already conducting political warfare against Finland and trying to fall Finnish lawful government, preparing ground for new military offensive. This ended when Germany told Molotov "hands off Finland", making cross-deals about food supplies to Finland (the country was dependant on foreign trade to feed the population, and the war had cut all trade routes - there were only two nations that could sell food, Germany and SU) vs raw materials to Germany.
So when Germany then suddenly attacked Soviet Union, it was a huge surprise for Finnish population - but SU had already forced Finland into Germany's side, by their attack in 1939 and continued political offensive in 1940.
If you wish to comment this further, please make own thread for it :) This should be about honoring the vets. :)
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Originally posted by jaxxo
are we so infatuated with aviation that we forget these guys were nazis?
Also ... Most of the surviving LW pilots flew for NATO after the war. Rall became a NATO general and Hartmann ended his career as a colonel in the West-German air force. Were some of them Nazis? Sure, most likely, but that’s just a political belief. Above all they were soldiers fighting for their country.