Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: AKDejaVu on September 11, 2001, 11:38:00 AM
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I feel no pity for the people identified as responsible... nor for those protecting them.
AKDejaVu
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My feelings exactly, and well put.
My son just finished basic training in the Air Force and was/is in the middle of SERE (Search, Evade, Rescue, Escape) training. I cannnot reach him as the Air Force is in full alert mode.
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my gut tells me these keepers of Obin have something to do with it
(http://www.twc-tampa.com/mdisalle/taliban.jpg)
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Given the scale and viciousness of this attack; given its focus against civilian rather than military targets; given it was perpetrated on American soil rather than some distant foreign outpost; I think a targeted, controlled application of tactical nuclear response against the countries that were either directly, or indirectly involved in this act is not only justified, but MANDATED.
Reap the whirlwind.
Wab
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So wabbit, are you trying to tell me that because some group of extremists who at this moment have not been identified and have not been associated with any country or political establishment have killed probably coming up on 20 or 30 thousand people possibly more. The Western world should then authorise and conduct a strategic Nuclear Attack on a country and wipe out a couple of million civilians in another country?
Come on man, I have a lot of respect for you mate and I know times are hard but think about what you are saying.
BT
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Betown, I think he is dead right. Wiping our only who perpetrated this crime against mankind only allows others to step in and take thier place.
Yes, a full onslaught against any country that willingly harbors these criminals is completely justified.
If that country does not want to get cremated, then kick out the cowards that would bring the commplete and utter destruction of thier way of life.
As long as we allow countries to harbor these types of criminals, we are only serving to allow it to happen again.
Sounds harsh? cruel,..maybe, but I for one am sick and tired of allowing these cowards to run amok and do what they want without any fear of retribution. And I am really disgusted with any country that would support and/or harbor these cowardly lunatics.
If it takes the total annihilation of one country on this planet to send the signal, then so be it. I would be happy to press the button.
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That was the most awful sickening act of violence I have ever seen.
But for those baying for more blood to be spilt:
Just a small point - but the guys who actually hijacked and crashed the planes are pretty much 100% certain to be dead. Not much chance of payback there. That leaves a few guys who helped plan it - maybe 10-50 people [a total guess but you wouldn't need many more]. A nuclear weapon or a war seems to be a bit of overkill to punish 50 people. [and if it really was a Palestinian organization, nuking them would kill off Israel too - which would definitely please the Islamic fundamentalists]
The group who organized this are totally insane, and the last thing the US should do is get all frothy at the mouth back. Hit squads and assassins [look up the etymology of that word] are strictly for terrorists. The only moral, civilized, democratic thing to do is to find them and take them to trial.
This option sucks, but anything else like bombings or hit squads or whatever is just terrorism in disguise.
It was a horrifying, disgusting act of violence. I hope that the US is mature enough to realize that the eye for an eye option would just drag them down to the terrorists level, and worse still would run the risk of thousands more people in the US being killed by the groups of nutters that would seek revenge for any US attack.
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I wonder how much of a co-incidence it is that the missionaries were arrested in Afghanistan a month or so ago? Their immmediate release would go far to ease some impending tension. Makes me wonder...
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What I don't understand is why there are KNOWN terrorist groups.... if they are known to be terrorist, why don't we wipe them out? don't we have Navy Seals and Black Ops for this. I know a guy that was trained as a US sniper. So why don't we use them?!?!?!? Bin Lodin claims to be resposible for the USS Cole..... fine, kill his ass. If we would have killed him when he first became known as a terrrorist, none of this would have happened.
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afraid Skuzzy has a point here. If you eliminate only those who planned it, they will be martyred by those left behind. And how can you be certain you got them all? Unless you level the place....
the entire act today and actions to follow make me sick to my stomach.. how in the world can there be so much hate?
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A nuclear response is absolutley absurd. Think of the years of contamination and all the other collateral damage.
Take a few carrier groups into the damn Gulf and use all those expensive weapons on "strategic" targets.
My only though/fear is this....the idiots doing this are sure to expect retaliation. They also likely have nuclear capabilities...(god I hope I'm wrong)what's to stop them from Nukeing a carrier group or retaliating to the US's attacks with nukes.
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Smuggling a low grade "homemade" or stolen nuke into a major city is one thing I can see within the capabilities of a terrorist group.
Nuking a Carrier Battle Group that is in a high stage of alert and on war footing is a whole nother ballgame.
Ask the Soviets. It would either take a very good attack by a nuclear attack class submarine (not to many of them in terrorist hands), a large and I mean large, modern, and extremely capable surface battle group (and I doubt that even the Soviets could muster that kind of naval surface firepower now), or a massed attack by Naval Air assets on the order of hundreds of simultaneous over the horizon launches by Backfire bombers (again something that barely theoretically existed in the numbers required during the cold war).
The offensive and defensive air power of a CV group, combined with the defensive capabilities of Aegis class Cruisers and Destroyers, make an EXTREMELY potent force.
To get a Carrier Battle Group you would either have to do it by suprise, a la the USS Cole attack, or be very very very lucky.
[ 09-11-2001: Message edited by: Vermillion ]
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Hmmm... do we have many of those "expensive" weapons left?
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Originally posted by NATEDOG:
What I don't understand is why there are KNOWN terrorist groups.... if they are known to be terrorist, why don't we wipe them out? don't we have Navy Seals and Black Ops for this. I know a guy that was trained as a US sniper. So why don't we use them?!?!?!? Bin Lodin claims to be resposible for the USS Cole..... fine, kill his ass. If we would have killed him when he first became known as a terrrorist, none of this would have happened.
Wipe them all out! They know where they all are.
I just hope that those who fund the IRA in the USA think twice about supporting them now. Down with all terrorists.... all organisations need to be hit ASAP or we could see this happen again :(
Nexx
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So what you are trying to say is that for revenge, you want to kill yet more innocent women and children, babies, old people & military men. Cripple a whole country. Turn a country basically into a third world uninhabitable wasteland and have millions upon millions of people die? Then at that have the implications of the other countries of the world on Americas back for killing millions of people unlawfully?
I am British, I think of the Americans as my brothers. I have many American friends who I call brothers. I want these people brought to justice as much as you do. But Destroying the planet and killing millions of people who had nothing to do with the situation is total insanity. If anyone believes that then they are as mad as the people who organised this horrendous act of violence
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But the IRA are freedom fighters, Replicant...
...an argument I'm sick of hearing.
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Another building went down :(
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Natedog: The answer to that can be found in an old proverb "Better to have a devil you know than a devil you have to get to know". Kill the known leaders who have been under watch and you have a lot of info on their psyche and stuff...and he gets replaced inmediately by another whacko on who you have no info.. and that is extremely dangerous.
However, I do agree that they have to be hit back. and HARD.
Find those responsible, if they have a juicy target in the middle of nowhere (aka, a terrorist training camp), away from innocent civilians, send them a small hydrogen warhead, courtesy of the U.S. of A. It leaves no lingering radiation and sends a clear message.
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I don't want nukes involved.
I want certainty.
I want retribution against those involved.
I want precision.
I want there to be little doubt that the world will no longer tolerate this toejam.
AKDejaVu
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Swamp,
While I agree nukes are out of question, I think your statement falls short. It's not a matter of precision streaks. IMHO, any country harboring not a particular person, but this kind of ideology has to be declared formal enemy, and a state of war bewteen such COUNTRY and the civilised world, not only U.S. It's their ideology, their ethics, their table of values which are in front and opposed to ours. They've shown, tragically, that they will use whatever means at their disposal to try to overcome. I think it's time western countries behave accordingly. The threat is not X, W or Z people. They can (and will) be replaced if they are killed.
This attack is the first step of a ladder. They wanted to mark open hostilities with a symbolic target. But we have to expect worse things to come, at least I think. It's time all of our governments reassess the situation and realize that we are at war. Sure, not conventional, but at war. This is not terrorism, this is not mass murder. This is WAR. Not more, not less.
We have limitations, as we use concepts like countries, civil rights, etc. I'm not saying we forget that, but we definitely have to revisit what are the boundaries. If a country's regime is of a terrorist nature (and Taliban's ones are), the country is bound for retaliation. If a community is of a terrorist nature (I'm thinking now on the people throwing stones to college girls in Ireland, or people placing bombs in public places) it's bound for retaliation. In one case, I think military measures are on order. The hardest possible, excluding mass destruction weapons. In the second situation, It's time for thinking our values. If a thousand new jails are needed to put those people to rest, build them. Put this kind of people out of circulation.
As Sax posted in another thread, U.S. has taken the biggest blow in the name of all of us. Now we have to unite and act together. This is not U.S. vs. Afghanistan, Islam, whatever. This is US (I mean all of us) vs. THEM (all kind of terrorism, state terrorism, national, international, religious, whatever). And, as certain as I'm posting here, this is war.
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Well spoken Pepe. <S>
Nations and their people will have to start making choices about where they stand on this issue. The time for equivication is over. You can be a part of the alliance against terrorism and barbarity or you can be the target.
Choose wisely, this IS a pass fail exam.
Mav
Originally posted by Pepe:
Swamp,
While I agree nukes are out of question, I think your statement falls short. It's not a matter of precision streaks. IMHO, any country harboring not a particular person, but this kind of ideology has to be declared formal enemy, and a state of war bewteen such COUNTRY and the civilised world, not only U.S. It's their ideology, their ethics, their table of values which are in front and opposed to ours. They've shown, tragically, that they will use whatever means at their disposal to try to overcome. I think it's time western countries behave accordingly. The threat is not X, W or Z people. They can (and will) be replaced if they are killed.
This attack is the first step of a ladder. They wanted to mark open hostilities with a symbolic target. But we have to expect worse things to come, at least I think. It's time all of our governments reassess the situation and realize that we are at war. Sure, not conventional, but at war. This is not terrorism, this is not mass murder. This is WAR. Not more, not less.
We have limitations, as we use concepts like countries, civil rights, etc. I'm not saying we forget that, but we definitely have to revisit what are the boundaries. If a country's regime is of a terrorist nature (and Taliban's ones are), the country is bound for retaliation. If a community is of a terrorist nature (I'm thinking now on the people throwing stones to college girls in Ireland, or people placing bombs in public places) it's bound for retaliation. In one case, I think military measures are on order. The hardest possible, excluding mass destruction weapons. In the second situation, It's time for thinking our values. If a thousand new jails are needed to put those people to rest, build them. Put this kind of people out of circulation.
As Sax posted in another thread, U.S. has taken the biggest blow in the name of all of us. Now we have to unite and act together. This is not U.S. vs. Afghanistan, Islam, whatever. This is US (I mean all of us) vs. THEM (all kind of terrorism, state terrorism, national, international, religious, whatever). And, as certain as I'm posting here, this is war.