Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Morpheus on April 15, 2005, 12:25:32 PM

Title: Convergence for rockets
Post by: Morpheus on April 15, 2005, 12:25:32 PM
Can anyone tell me, at what distance the rockets are set to converge infront of the nose of the plane at? Approximately...

From what it looks like. They tend to hit in line when fired from 800-600yrds. But that' also depends on speed during the dive.

Does anyone have any historical information relating to this topic?

I've done quite a bit of searching and haven't found much reading that has been helpful.
Title: Convergence for rockets
Post by: Murdr on April 15, 2005, 01:10:06 PM
not sure im understanding the question.  In ah, with US planes at least, if you salvo rockets from both wings they will impact approximately the same distance apart on the ground as they were when mounted on the wings.  Meaning they travel parallel with the nose at the same heading.  Or do you mean in relation to elevation?
Title: Convergence for rockets
Post by: Stang on April 15, 2005, 01:12:24 PM
He's asking if they have a convergence like guns do... I don't think they do, they seem to fire directly straight off the rail.
Title: Convergence for rockets
Post by: Murdr on April 15, 2005, 01:15:45 PM
I just said that :)
Title: Convergence for rockets
Post by: Morpheus on April 15, 2005, 04:53:05 PM
ok.

I know for a fact that they converge.

When  you fire a rocket, depending on your elevation, or distance from target I should say, will determine where the rocket will impact as far as being "centered" left or right of the target. NOT up and down.

wing mounted rockets are "aimed" at a point. They are set to converge infront of the A/C at a certain distance.

I'd just like to know what that is in AH.
Title: Convergence for rockets
Post by: Stang on April 15, 2005, 05:53:15 PM
Good luck toolshedder

:lol
Title: Convergence for rockets
Post by: Murdr on April 15, 2005, 07:22:35 PM
As you may know I mainly deal with 1 aircraft in particular, so Im not making a blanket claim here.  I can state however the P-38 rockets do not converge.  If you doubt that, you can spawn on the runway with your engine at idle, salvo your rockets, then taxi down the runway and clearly see the impact craters fit neatly under your wings in line with the rocket rails.
Title: Convergence for rockets
Post by: Morpheus on April 15, 2005, 07:57:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Stang
Good luck toolshedder

:lol


Its for GV's Dipchit!

Dont make me bend all your golf clubs you lil sucker.


Murdr.

They start from the wing and move towards the center of the nose. Or am I mistaken?
Title: Convergence for rockets
Post by: Murdr on April 15, 2005, 07:59:08 PM
In the case of a P38L the rocket tree is 16'3" off centerline.  Just over 5yds.  Other fighters with shorter wing spans should be even closer to CL.  Thats litterally close enough for hand grenades.  Personel kill radius for a 4"-5" HE round should run about 35-40 meters.  No need for convergence.

Feel free to test it, but I believe you are mistaken.
Title: Convergence for rockets
Post by: Morpheus on April 15, 2005, 08:09:30 PM
I have Murdr.

Tried it many times. At 400d, what I've found is that the rocket, is impacting slightly to the left or right of the target. Left if the rocket comes from the left wing, and right if it is fired from the right wing.

Which is why I'm here asking this. Because it looks like it is moving from the wing to the center of the A/C. I just haven't figured out at what distance it reaches the center.
Title: Convergence for rockets
Post by: Murdr on April 15, 2005, 08:21:48 PM
I find it much easier to put rockets where I want them from 800 or more.  I think its a function of being a fraction of a degree adjustment from farther out, as opposed to several degrees when you're right on top of the target.  I rarely can get a direct hit on a GV inside of 400 without keeping track of which wing is next in the firing sequence.

If they did converge, I dont think Id be able to get the long range kills that I do.  Personal record is 3.4k on a mossie rolling from the rearm pad to the runway.  (It hit exactly where I was aiming, and timed perfect with the mossie rolling to that point)
Title: Convergence for rockets
Post by: Morpheus on April 15, 2005, 08:44:02 PM
Thanks for your input murdr. And I do tend to agree with you in that getting hits/kills on GV's from 800 or further out is easier. Which is what lead me to beleive that there is some convergence. Although it may not be alot, it looked like enough to make a difference.

I love jaboing GV's. And its even more fun when done with rockets altho it may not be as easy at times.
Title: Convergence for rockets
Post by: Raptor on April 15, 2005, 10:06:11 PM
In P38L, set salvo of 10, get within 800yds of a bomber formation and launch. Make sure to move your nose up as they launch to get a shotgun effect, it only takes 1 rocket to bring the formation down.:aok
Title: Convergence for rockets
Post by: hubsonfire on April 15, 2005, 10:32:26 PM
Morph, are you using rudders when you line up for your rocket runs? I notice a similar affect at times, which I think is caused by too much rudder input when I'm lining up for the attack.
Title: Convergence for rockets
Post by: Goth on April 16, 2005, 12:03:12 AM
Tested offline using the target command....doesn't look like there is any inward movement at 200, 400, 600 or 800. My guess is convergence is not modelled.
Title: Convergence for rockets
Post by: Morpheus on April 16, 2005, 01:22:04 AM
Yeah, I just got through playing with that target thing earlier. Forgot it was even there.

Depending on which wing the rocket is fired, the hit is off center left or right.

Thanks guys.
Title: Convergence for rockets
Post by: Cooley on April 16, 2005, 01:54:52 AM
spent an hour using that green cross trying to find the "spot",
then custumized a gunsite with hash marks for rox. try it

Im a toolsheder though,,,and just love any type of Jabo run,
Ive taken off "light" like 10 times in 3 years.
Just for fun, I'd like to duel one of ya squirley ACM types, and see how a toolsheder does against ya, maybe sun or mon evenin sound good?
Title: Convergence for rockets
Post by: Murdr on April 20, 2005, 07:30:57 PM
On a side note, I got my first rocket vulch from outside of 5K distance last night :D   I seen the fantom person is spawning micro-dot.  Aimed about 4-500 yards ahead of the spawn point and fired.  Watched the dot appear and start to roll, and got into con range in time to see it impact just behind its left wing.  I even fired from about 30 degrees out of line with the runway.  Doubt I can break that personal record.

That topped my previous record of 3.4K on IG's mossy rolling from the rearm to the runway. :rofl
Title: Convergence for rockets
Post by: Morpheus on April 20, 2005, 07:54:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Cooley
spent an hour using that green cross trying to find the "spot",
then custumized a gunsite with hash marks for rox. try it

Im a toolsheder though,,,and just love any type of Jabo run,
Ive taken off "light" like 10 times in 3 years.
Just for fun, I'd like to duel one of ya squirley ACM types, and see how a toolsheder does against ya, maybe sun or mon evenin sound good?



Cooly I see you quite frequently in the DA. Altho I dont see you talking much so I assume your afk.

Next time you see me give me a yell. I'll let you beat up on me a bit.
Title: Convergence for rockets
Post by: lasersailor184 on April 20, 2005, 08:02:00 PM
At 1000 yards (1.0k Out) and 300 MPH and facing towards the ground (for US planes), they will hit the exact same spot (roughly, way too many other variables) as the center of the gunsight.
Title: Convergence for rockets
Post by: Murdr on April 20, 2005, 08:11:15 PM
they dont converge.  4-5 yards one way or the other from over 500 yards away is roughly exactly the same spot.
Title: Convergence for rockets
Post by: lasersailor184 on April 20, 2005, 08:47:29 PM
No, I'm right.  Go check it out.
Title: Convergence for rockets
Post by: Murdr on April 21, 2005, 03:22:53 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Murdr
I can state however the P-38 rockets do not converge.  If you doubt that, you can spawn on the runway with your engine at idle, salvo your rockets, then taxi down the runway and clearly see the impact craters fit neatly under your wings in line with the rocket rails.


I did check it out.  The rockets were fired from beside the tiger (600yds).
(http://479th.jasminemarie.com/films/rockets.jpg)
Tail draggers dont test as easily because their rockets go several thousand yards.  I did find a field on equanox that had no trees in the way, and had the same results.  The craters were in line with the rocket rails.

btw railroad tracks dont converge off in the distance either.
Title: what about non US rockets
Post by: Traveler on April 21, 2005, 10:59:59 AM
not so much on the aiming spot, as when do the war heads explode, at what distance?  Is it a timed fuse?

I by chance hit a B24 with one but did not notice exactly but it only caused the aircraft to burst into flame, one wing, then later the aircraft exploded.
Title: Convergence for rockets
Post by: koda76 on April 21, 2005, 11:11:14 AM
In the 110 air 2 air they converge..nailed a plane inflight the other night @ 800...salvo 2
Title: Convergence for rockets
Post by: Murdr on April 21, 2005, 11:22:46 AM
This counts for the LW air to air rockets only.
Quote
Originally posted by Pyro
1- The fuse detonates after 5.25 seconds.  Under normal launch conditions I think that will put the detonation about 1100 yards in front of you.  
All other rockets only explode on impact.
Title: Convergence for rockets
Post by: DaYooper on April 21, 2005, 01:10:44 PM
I'm not an expert, but I do have an opinion.

To have a convergence point for the rocket rails, each rail would have to be adjustable.  From a manufacturing and maintenance position, this seems excessive.

Having fixed rails, all parallel, seems to make sense.  Plus this would minimize drag on the aircraft.

What I think some people see as 'convergence' is the vanishing point effect.  A group of rockets launched in a salvo would appear to converge the way the rails on a train track appear to converge.
Title: Convergence for rockets
Post by: lasersailor184 on April 21, 2005, 05:07:14 PM
No.


Rockets converge because you'll notice that the closer you are to your target, the further off center in actual distance it hits.
Title: Convergence for rockets
Post by: Murdr on April 21, 2005, 05:21:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
No.


Rockets converge because you'll notice that the closer you are to your target, the further off center in actual distance it hits.
The screen shot I posted disproved that.  If as you say they converge at 1000yds, then in the screen shot they should be 60% converged at 600yds.  They are not.  The center of the craters are clearly under the rocket trees.
Title: Convergence for rockets
Post by: sullie363 on April 21, 2005, 05:49:27 PM
Yeah I've always felt like you have to aim to the left or right of gvs depending what wing the rocket was coming off in order to improve the odds of a direct hit.
Title: Convergence for rockets
Post by: lasersailor184 on April 21, 2005, 06:33:56 PM
Did anyone even try to do what I said?


Does anyone even pay attention to what I say?
Title: Convergence for rockets
Post by: vorticon on April 21, 2005, 07:20:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
Did anyone even try to do what I said?


Does anyone even pay attention to what I say?


sure we do, you dont seem to be paying attention to the evidence that there providing, since it completly disproves your point.
Title: rockets
Post by: blacklab on April 22, 2005, 07:55:59 AM
Seeing the thread on rockets and comments on the target command
What does target command do?
And say on a p51 mustang with 8 rockets how do you gauge where to aim with the things I went in to offline mode and I notice they seem to dip shortly after leaving the plane does anyone else notice this?
Title: Convergence for rockets
Post by: Pyro on April 22, 2005, 08:17:24 AM
Rockets do not converge.  As Goth pointed out, you can conclusively test this using the .target command at various ranges.
Title: Convergence for rockets
Post by: DREDIOCK on April 22, 2005, 08:20:19 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
Does anyone even pay attention to what I say?


We try not to :D
Title: Convergence for rockets
Post by: Ghosth on April 22, 2005, 08:21:00 AM
Blacklab

.target 300  will bring up a big target directly north of you at 300 yards.

# can be any distance from 1 - 999 I suppose.

.target 0 makes it go away.

Yes rockets fired will "drop" as they leave the plane. For best luck on ground targets use em like you'd use a bomb.

Dive in at 45 degree angle, hold a bit above your target, fire about 1k up, pull out of dive & look back to see if they hit.

Exactly where to aim does seem to vary a bit from plane to plane. IMO the F6f rockets hit closest to gunsight of them all.

Mostly a matter of repitition and getting a feel for speed vs angle.
Title: rockets
Post by: blacklab on April 22, 2005, 09:51:20 AM
Thanks Ghosth
how about plane to plane aiming?
any pointers on aiming them from a plane say a mustang or lightning?
Title: Convergence for rockets
Post by: lasersailor184 on April 22, 2005, 03:43:38 PM
Hmmm, I did test it out and they don't converge (as Pyro so elegantly pointed out that I was wrong).  I could have sworn remembering them converging...
Title: Convergence for rockets
Post by: Murdr on April 23, 2005, 11:50:28 AM
:rolleyes:
Title: Convergence for rockets
Post by: pugg666 on April 23, 2005, 09:59:51 PM
Quote
Hmmm, I did test it out and they don't converge (as Pyro so elegantly pointed out that I was wrong). I could have sworn remembering them converging...


Might wanna rethink your opinion of the .30 cal 110 grain Winchester round, and a certain gun that fired it as well ;)

;)