Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Max on April 20, 2005, 09:56:56 AM

Title: New (large) Map
Post by: Max on April 20, 2005, 09:56:56 AM
Whoever took the time & effort to create the new map, THANK YOU!!!

Looks great and should be a lot of fun.

DmdMax
Title: New (large) Map
Post by: sullie363 on April 20, 2005, 09:38:53 PM
I find my desire to play sucked away when I look at this map.  All the bases are very low altitude.  And from what I've seen, the position of the bases cause furballs.  So far, I'm not a fan.
Title: New (large) Map
Post by: cav58d on April 20, 2005, 10:06:17 PM
Agreed about the suckyness.......First of all....A23's town is about 15 miles to the North of the base?  WTF????

Second, the map looks god awful on the clipboard....

and finally....well i dunno, im done complaining

Was this a HTC map or a player built?
Title: New (large) Map
Post by: Max on April 20, 2005, 10:23:19 PM
Everyone gripes about "same old-same old" maps. Someone takes the time to build a new one and ya'll gripe about the shortcomings. Kinda makes ya wonder.
Title: New (large) Map
Post by: doobs on April 20, 2005, 10:35:20 PM
nice change of pace. I like the DMZ lines.

not to mention that the towns far away from base means I can kill toolsheds, port'o'potty's, hot dog stands, and small churches
at my leisure.

your goin see alot more noe on this map for sure.









FA
Title: New (large) Map
Post by: cobia38 on April 20, 2005, 11:20:30 PM
BRING BACK PIZZA !!!!!!!!!:rolleyes:
Title: New (large) Map
Post by: JB73 on April 20, 2005, 11:26:26 PM
i dont know who made it but for your efforts.

i will say withough the heads up, the whole map room in another sector of the base was messing up alot of people.

i will say also, it does promote "furballing" over an area, and from some people in the game that is not what they are looking for.


it is s tough line to "appease" the MA crowd, and there will always be complaints, whatever the situation. in my personal opinion the trinity map (after it's revisions) has been the "best" in appeasing people.





if i may make a comment on the current map, the clip map makes it quite hard to read standard green base icons unless zoomen in very close. may i suggest making the lower terrains a darker color to be able to read it better.

thanks
Title: New (large) Map
Post by: Toad on April 20, 2005, 11:38:39 PM
You can easily alter map icon colors too.
Title: New (large) Map
Post by: Nightshift82 on April 20, 2005, 11:43:13 PM
it has RAPED my fps worse than any other.  I would whoever made it but.....ya coulda used some lube
Title: New (large) Map
Post by: DREDIOCK on April 20, 2005, 11:49:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by DMax
Everyone gripes about "same old-same old" maps. Someone takes the time to build a new one and ya'll gripe about the shortcomings. Kinda makes ya wonder.


No matter what map is up somenoes gonna fnd something to moan and groan about it while others will love it.

Nature of the beast
Title: New (large) Map
Post by: JB73 on April 21, 2005, 12:01:48 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
You can easily alter map icon colors too.
should i have to do that every time i log into the MA?

also, tell me a color that shows up well as friendly icon AND clip map information for "country"

dark blue looks great on the clip, but fly over water and you can't read a single enemies icon.

what magic color do you use?
Title: New (large) Map
Post by: Shane on April 21, 2005, 12:13:40 AM
promotes furballs?

there's way too many empty sectors and deadzones...

which timid sky accountant/toolshed killer made this map?


i dub it....

gaaaak.
Title: New (large) Map
Post by: SFCHONDO on April 21, 2005, 12:22:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by JB73
should i have to do that every time i log into the MA?

also, tell me a color that shows up well as friendly icon AND clip map information for "country"

dark blue looks great on the clip, but fly over water and you can't read a single enemies icon.

what magic color do you use?


Me personnally I use:
Friendly icons = White
Eneny Icons = Red
Squad Icons = Yellow

Country Icons:
Rook = Blue
Knit = Red
Bish = Orange

That what i use, I don't use green at all, hard for me to see against the ground at times. Or blue like you said about seeing them over water. Only time I lose friendly Icons (white) is if there directly in the sun, which isn't to often.
Title: New (large) Map
Post by: sullie363 on April 21, 2005, 01:49:32 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Shane
promotes furballs?

there's way too many empty sectors and deadzones...

which timid sky accountant/toolshed killer made this map?


i dub it....

gaaaak.


Correct, the few sectors with players are packed.  Most of the map is empty because there's no reason to fly to the middle of nowhere.
Title: New (large) Map
Post by: thrila on April 21, 2005, 05:27:02 AM
I had some good fights up north against the knights.  I quite like the field, vh,vh, field layout.  The 2 vh's served as a focal point for the air fighting.  With the 2 sides fighting over the vh's, there was much less knocking out of fh's and fuel.
Title: New (large) Map
Post by: XtrmeJ on April 21, 2005, 06:20:38 AM
Way to totally make the guy who made this map feel good about his work... :aok
Title: New (large) Map
Post by: Shane on April 21, 2005, 06:26:06 AM
my bad.

i'll print out a copy and post it on the fridge.
Title: New (large) Map
Post by: Simaril on April 21, 2005, 06:31:29 AM
Agree on the FH-VH=VH=FH layout -- great idea. Good fights over bishland last pm.

It is weird to see the towns so far away, but hey -- it's DIFFERENT. And Different means new tactics are gunna emerge, and new countertactics.

This is good.

Bases may change hands back and forth a lot.  Small oceans mean lots of fleet flying, and quicker action after respawn.

THose are jsut first reactions. Let's be serious -- anything as complex as a map can't be analysed in 5 minutes. The peices are on the board, but their implications and permutations are gunna take a few cycles to appreciate.

As far as I'm concerned, KUDOS to the mapmaker, and vive le difference!!
Title: New (large) Map
Post by: Simaril on April 21, 2005, 06:41:46 AM
Quote
Originally posted by sullie363
Correct, the few sectors with players are packed.  Most of the map is empty because there's no reason to fly to the middle of nowhere.




Same thing happens with LOTS of AH2 maps. Hardest thing about small maps is their tendency to have only 2 or 3 "contact points" per front. Just look at the DARs on Lake Uterus, or even (to lesser degree) Baltic.

Allowing for that, who cares if there are only 2 places where people CAN fight (ie LAke Uterus), versus only 2 places wherre people DO fight? At least with the latter situation (like this map so far) those so inclined can try to milk run/Buff hunt if they so desire.
Title: New (large) Map
Post by: Zazen13 on April 21, 2005, 07:18:14 AM
I am too lazy to dig up the thread but we had a debate awhile back about the proximity of the field to the town. The thinking was that if the field and the town were far enough apart it would make CAP'ing the field (ie:vulching) and CAP'ing the town, simulataneously, very difficult for all but a very large/organized attacking force. This, in effect, would divide the attacking force making it far more likely the defenders would be afforded opportunities to successfully up from that field and mount a persistant defense. As it is now on the conventional maps, the field and the town are so close even a relatively small attacking force can effectively CAP the field (ie: vulch) and CAP the town, simultaneously, without much difficulty just by virtue of their proximity.

In the same thread it was proposed by myself that if the spacing were increased between the field and town it would require either the town have its own VH or the field VH would require a spawn point to the town to maintain a cohesive combined arms defense. Generally speaking though, the consensus was that greater town/field spacing would generate far more opportunities to have pitched battles, less opportunity for vulchfests, and mitigate the steamroll effect to some degree.

The greater spacing and subsequent division of the attacking force also should lead to its greater vulnerability to its CAP being broken by those defenders that come from a nearby support field. For example, with 10 attackers, theoretically 5 will be CAP'ing the base (ie: vulching) and 5 will be CAP'ing/destroying the town. So, if two or three defenders from a nearby base come with some altitude it's conceivable they could rather easily break CAP on either the town or the field making a successfull base capture highly unlikely. However, on the conventional maps, the same 10 person attacking force simultaneously CAP'ing both the town and the field would be far less vulnerable to having their CAP broken by the same 2 or 3 defenders coming from a nearby support field just from an odds standpoint. In effect, greater spacing should provide generally better 'localized' odds for the defending force even if outnumbered overall, thus the potential for the mitigation of the steamroll effect and likelihood of more relatively even pitched battles (ie: less lop-sided vulch-gang-bang-fests).

Zazen
Title: New (large) Map
Post by: Ghosth on April 21, 2005, 07:58:59 AM
I like it, it shows some well thought out changes from the same ol same ol main.


Yes you have to change a bit to adapt to it.
This is a good thing!

Had a terrific fight for over an hour last night over a port. Yes they finally got it, but it was a good fight.

It has a LOT more GV potential. (Mindinao sucks in this dept)

I also really like the new clipboard map.
MUCH easier to see elevations, and everything is not the same color green, blending into each other.

Fly it for a month, give it a chance. Then take a look at #'s online.  That will tell you the true success or failure of a map.
Title: New (large) Map
Post by: DamnedRen on April 21, 2005, 08:36:15 AM
I agree with Ghosth.

Time will tell if it works for the majority.

A real question might also be asked. How long will it take for a country to "win the war"? :)

IMHO, it looks like fun and I'm happy for the change.
Title: New (large) Map
Post by: Edbert1 on April 21, 2005, 08:42:49 AM
First of all, thank you to whoever made the map, it takes a helluva lot of work and I appreciate the efforts. I have no issues with FPS or clipboard visibility and I love the topo feature.

I have to say though that this map seems to be a wet dream for anyone who likes to GV or play the tactical-win-the-unwinable-war aspect of the game. The map rooms being 15 miles away from an airfield will only encourage the milkrunners and base capture guys, I don't see this as a furball map in any way whatsoever.

Request for new maps...since the GV types get a tank town would it be possible to set up another map with a section of bases somewhere (off in a corner is fine by me) that feature no map rooms spawn points or VHs at all and indestructible FHs? These bases would not factor into the war-winning so the fun-nazis and quake fans could just leave the fighter guys alone for a change. Maybe even put a 50K wall around it somehow and diable any plane with more than two engines. keep the bases 30 miles apart, and make some field acks indestructible too to discourage vulching.

Just a thought...
Title: New (large) Map
Post by: hammer on April 21, 2005, 08:44:39 AM
Quote
Originally posted by sullie363
...the position of the bases cause furballs...

:rolleyes:

Heaven forbid a map that causes fights to happen. What is this world coming to?

So there were furballs going on. How did that stop you from having fun? Nothing stopped anybody who likes to bomb from bombing enemy bases. Nothing stopped GVers from fighting GV battles. And nothing stopped those who like fighter vs. fighter combat from doing so.  What did you want to do that you couldn't do? Did you want more people supporting your plan to capture base X? Run a mission. If enough people are interested, they will join. If they want to do something else, it's their $15. If people didn't want to furball, the map wouldn't matter.

Had someone last night begging people to "horde the bish" because they had the fewest people and we would roll over them and "win" the war. Nevermind there were few bish on our front and lots of good, fairly even fights going on the other.

I would submit most people care little about "winning" the war. I can't remember the last time I was on when the map was reset by anybody. I'm sure many people are in the same boat. For me, winning means I shot down the enemy fighter that was trying to shoot me down. For others it means they dropped all their bombs accurately and destroyed the targets they were aiming at. And some like to capture bases or destroy tanks. As far as I could tell, all were accomodated on this map. It was a little hard on the eyes at first, but I got used to it.

My one gripe is the towns so far from the bases. Not that it affected anything I was doing, but I don't see a town more than 10 miles from an airbase controlling operations of the airbase. I could see the requirement to own both before the airbase could be operational, though. That would add a bit more excitement.

Overall  :aok

Kudos to the creators!
Title: New (large) Map
Post by: Toad on April 21, 2005, 10:44:53 AM
Quote
Originally posted by JB73
should i have to do that every time i log into the MA?

also, tell me a color that shows up well as friendly icon AND clip map information for "country"

dark blue looks great on the clip, but fly over water and you can't read a single enemies icon.

what magic color do you use?


Well, i put on my robe and wizard hat and this is what works for me:

Clipboard Enemy 1 = Red

Clipboard Enemy 2 = Orange (mine's kind of a "medium" orange)

Clipboard Friendly  =  Bright Purple, shows fine against water, fool with the slider until you get a gay-looking bright, luminous purple.

Enemy = Red

YMMV.
Title: New (large) Map
Post by: LTARokit on April 21, 2005, 10:47:46 AM
Hats off to yas HTC :aok  Outstanding map.  Noticed a few bugs, but what new map doesn't.  Also little conserned about distances to town. from a GV's point of view it's hard to get to the town in a timely manner for defense against capture.  However just means coming up with a different MO.

Title: New (large) Map
Post by: MaddogWx on April 21, 2005, 11:33:59 AM
This map friggin ROCKS!  Love the terrain height colors and the distant map rooms!

Oops can I say friggin on the BBS?

.report dawgwx

LOL

HiTech for the work, Thank you
Title: New (large) Map
Post by: StarOfAfrica2 on April 21, 2005, 11:54:39 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
Well, i put on my robe and wizard hat and this is what works for me:

Clipboard Enemy 1 = Red

Clipboard Enemy 2 = Orange (mine's kind of a "medium" orange)

Clipboard Friendly  =  Bright Purple, shows fine against water, fool with the slider until you get a gay-looking bright, luminous purple.

Enemy = Red

YMMV.


Pretty close to what I did as well, except I made one enemy country the gay purple.  Now if only I could set the other one to feminine pink it would be perfect!  :lol
Title: New (large) Map
Post by: fuzeman on April 21, 2005, 11:56:18 AM
So far so good here to the maker for his time and effort.
I like the map elevations and the scale for it. No more 'where'd this mountain come from?' bomber flights.
Haven't explored it all but I'm :D

Anyone noticed any beer, squids, crop circles or UFOs yet?
The day a new map is greeted with 0 complaints will be the day you see 1 guy in the arena, the map maker.
Title: New (large) Map
Post by: Deth7 on April 21, 2005, 02:59:27 PM
Great Map!!!!
Title: New (large) Map
Post by: MOIL on April 21, 2005, 03:42:26 PM
Hey at least we got a NEW map, so it's not perfect, name a AH map that is ?

Seems no matter who takes the time to create a map there's always a handfull of ungratefulls that can't wait to complain about something. Guess ya can't please everyone.

Quote:
"I find my desire to play sucked away when I look at this map. All the bases are very low altitude. And from what I've seen, the position of the bases cause furballs. So far, I'm not a fan"

What strikes me funny is, being a GV'er we tend to like maps with numorus spawns and such and when we express our liking to this we are immediately reminded that this is a FLIGHT SIM and the game is about AIRPLANES and DOG FIGHTS:rolleyes:  Yet so many whine about all the "furballs"    Go figure!
Title: New (large) Map
Post by: BlueJ1 on April 21, 2005, 03:46:30 PM
How bout a screenshot of the clipboard ?
Title: New (large) Map
Post by: john9001 on April 21, 2005, 04:10:46 PM
good map, me likey
44MAG


but i still get shot down....:confused:
Title: New (large) Map
Post by: sullie363 on April 21, 2005, 04:47:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MOIL
Hey at least we got a NEW map, so it's not perfect, name a AH map that is ?

Seems no matter who takes the time to create a map there's always a handfull of ungratefulls that can't wait to complain about something. Guess ya can't please everyone.

Quote:
"I find my desire to play sucked away when I look at this map. All the bases are very low altitude. And from what I've seen, the position of the bases cause furballs. So far, I'm not a fan"

What strikes me funny is, being a GV'er we tend to like maps with numorus spawns and such and when we express our liking to this we are immediately reminded that this is a FLIGHT SIM and the game is about AIRPLANES and DOG FIGHTS:rolleyes:  Yet so many whine about all the "furballs"    Go figure!


I guess I should have included "thanks for the effort but..."  I was simply saying that the positioning of the airbases seemed to cause furballs which many people do not partake in.  Granted many people do partake and that's fine.  But whether on purpose or not, ths map creates situations which will more likely create packed sectors.  Those of us that try and avoid furballs are forced into taking the long way around to get to a base, something I never have to do on any other map.  Or certainly not to this degree.

And please GV more, I love dropping bombs on you guys.
Title: New (large) Map
Post by: Edbert1 on April 21, 2005, 05:13:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by sullie363
I was simply saying that the positioning of the airbases seemed to cause furballs which many people do not partake in.  Granted many people do partake and that's fine.  But whether on purpose or not, ths map creates situations which will more likely create packed sectors.  Those of us that try and avoid furballs are forced into taking the long way around to get to a base, something I never have to do on any other map.  Or certainly not to this degree.

Just to make sure I understand what you are saying here...

You like to drop bombs. You like to fly to your target while avoiding contact. You don't like flying long distances around contacts in order to kills toolsheds.

Assuming I have not misunderstood you here...may I suggest offline mode?
Title: New (large) Map
Post by: Morpheus on April 21, 2005, 05:18:07 PM
There is no score in off line mode ed. Now dammit get a clue would ya!

W3 N33D teH Scor3 OMG OMG OMFG WHAT w0ulD W3 do without teh ScoR3?!!?!!?!

Ground Objects!
Title: New (large) Map
Post by: sullie363 on April 21, 2005, 05:33:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Edbert
Just to make sure I understand what you are saying here...

You like to drop bombs. You like to fly to your target while avoiding contact. You don't like flying long distances around contacts in order to kills toolsheds.

Assuming I have not misunderstood you here...may I suggest offline mode?


You may suggest it.

My gripe is coming from the position of not wanting to furball.  Something about the chaos and lack of point to the situation.  I simply prefer smaller fights which I had a hard time finding on this map that didn't involve flying over two sectors to go shoot up some guy bombing a vbase.  Every other map we have is fine.  They are a mixed bag of what people like to do.  I did not feel this map was that way.
Title: New (large) Map
Post by: MOIL on April 21, 2005, 08:08:02 PM
^
|
|
|

You gotta be  kiddin me
Title: New (large) Map
Post by: sullie363 on April 21, 2005, 08:46:49 PM
Uh, have you noticed how not everybody flys on furball island and goes off and does other things?  Yeah, I'm one of those radicals.
Title: New (large) Map
Post by: StarOfAfrica2 on April 22, 2005, 01:28:46 AM
Nothing wrong with that.  I'm not a big fan of blowin stuff up (unless its another plane) but I do like to find those 1v1 fights or at least 2v1.  And I understand the point.  With bases this close together its hard to find stragglers.  People tend to be clumped up in large groups battling across a 2-3 base front.  The other maps have some open space that allows you go to hunting.  Neither way is bad, I rather enjoyed the change of pace this map offered.
Title: New (large) Map
Post by: TexMurphy on April 22, 2005, 07:24:18 AM
This map is fantastic when server numbers are lower (about 150ish people) relativly small fights all over the place.

But once it gets crowded all the fights get crowded meaning huge furballs everywhere.

When a map has short distances between bases it really has to have a "long front" on each side. That way fights can spread out. If its short distances and short fonts its just one big furball when the numbers get high.

The front on this map really isnt that short but the front where the bases are close is short.

Also I have to agree I do enjoy some more alt variation is fun on maps. Mostly because it rewards people who know what plane opperates well at what level. Its funny to see people bring Russian planes to fight at 6k+ bases.

Tex