Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: sullie363 on April 20, 2005, 01:57:59 PM
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Why do troops tap clips against their helmets? As far as I can tell, it's either for luck or to tell if there's bullets in the clip.
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To make sure the rounds are properly set i the clip?
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clear debris
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i thought it was to make sure the rounds we seated in the clip evenly and the proper place
didn't see nilsen's post lol
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I always figured it was to knock the dirt out. There's few things less fun than a fouled mag.
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I was taught to knock the clip to make sure the rounds are seated properly in the mag before shooting if the mag had been carried around before the use to prevent feed errors.
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In the M16 you want to make sure that the primer end of the round is firmly against the back of the mag. Otherwise you might get feeding issues. M16 mags suck.
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Originally posted by Raubvogel
In the M16 you want to make sure that the primer end of the round is firmly against the back of the mag. Otherwise you might get feeding issues. M16 mags suck.
Yup, basically sets the cartridge back, allows the nose end of the bullet to avoid dragging on the magazine front edge and to rise up properly allowing proper feeding.
Someone been watching Apocalypse Now?
dago
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never had a feed problem with my M1 or M14, never shot one of them new fangled M16's.
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We did it with our AG3's too, but only when loading blanks.
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Training with the Texas Dept Criminal justice Death row , they explained that it was important to tap the clip to align the .223 bullets for proper feeding when chambering a round , due to the everyday of removing the rounds and replacing them to ensure you had 20.
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its not critical as in you could never do it and not have a problem but if I had the time giving it a quick whack to make sure the rounds seated uniformly in the clip is what I do. For that matter I tend to do it with any clip that stagger the rounds.
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Two reasons,
1. to make sure the rounds are all aligned properly within the magazine. A jam is more likely if the rounds are not 'seated' correctly.
2. to distribute any ball powder that may have 'caked' or settled within each round casing.
While the second reason is probably not important in combat, it does provide for a more uniform burning of the powder and better accuracy.
Regards,
Malta
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In the French Fusiller Commandos, we used the same practice to make sure the the rounds where aligned properly.
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It's so you'll look cool in movies! (Along with a can of Copenhagen stuck in your helmet band).
Tumor
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never had a feed problem with my M1 or M14, never shot one of them new fangled M16's.
That's because the m1 and the m14 were great weapons.
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To make sure that the rounds are seated properly - ie as far back in the clip as poss - and you do it against the heel of your boot not yr helmet.
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Its a magazine, not a clip.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
That's because the m1 and the m14 were great weapons.
Hey, now!
I have one of each, an ar-15, an m-1a, and a NM m-1 garand. I love 'em all. They are all great weapons.
But my absolute favorite is my L1A1. Cod knows why, all of the above are more accurate, all are lighter, M1 and M1A have a very positive action (op handle actually attached to the bolt carrier). I think it's the 1970s Dr. Who episodes, when he was in Britain. I always wanted one of those L1A1s the Brit soldiers carried.
And you tap the mag on your helmet to push the rounds back against the back of the mag, since the pointy ends dragging against the front of the mag can cause failure to feed issues in the AR-15.
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sand...
US reenactors do it when loading their M1 clips and BAR magazines..
Clip=10 or less rounds
Magazine=10 or more rounds
I think thats it..
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To make sure your helmet is still there.
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Originally posted by Hawklore
sand...
US reenactors do it when loading their M1 clips and BAR magazines..
Clip=10 or less rounds
Magazine=10 or more rounds
I think thats it..
Don't think clip is a term used by the military...before we switched from the Glorious 1911A1 .45 to the crap-ass I-talian stovepiping, jamming POS Beretta 9mm..we refered to "clip" as a magazine..and only ever had 5 rounds in it...but with the 1911A1..who needed more than 1 shot.
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Tapping a clip against your helmet shows the car next to you you are serious about that lane change.
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Originally posted by Hawklore
sand...
US reenactors do it when loading their M1 clips and BAR magazines..
Clip=10 or less rounds
Magazine=10 or more rounds
I think thats it..
Clip:
(http://www.pacificwrecks.com/people/visitors/flahavin/relics/assortedrelics8.jpg)
Magazine:
(http://www.airsoft.cz/Images/ics%20M4/M4%20-%20zasobnik.jpg)
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why do smokers bang the bottom end of the cigarrete packs before smoking?
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I didn't say anything was wrong with the Ar15...
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Originally posted by Tarmac
Clip:
(http://www.pacificwrecks.com/people/visitors/flahavin/relics/assortedrelics8.jpg)
Magazine:
(http://www.airsoft.cz/Images/ics%20M4/M4%20-%20zasobnik.jpg)
True.
Magazines can be internal, non-detachable type to, or the under-barrel tube type like on Winchester '94 lever actions.
They dont have to be detachable box type.
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Is the container holding the rolled up belted ammo for an M249 or similar weapon called a magazine?
Or the ones on the door guns on old Hueys, or even the metal box with belted .50 ammo on tanks, HMMVs etc....are they magazines too, or something else due to the rounds being belted, not just encased and spring fed?
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The M249 thing is called a box I believe.
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Originally posted by OIO
why do smokers bang the bottom end of the cigarrete packs before smoking?
To pack the tobacco...they smoke better that way. And it's the top end of the packs thaey bang..since cigs are butt-up in the pack.
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Originally posted by OIO
why do smokers bang the bottom end of the cigarrete packs before smoking?
It also allows more heat at the end when the "cherry" is closer to the butt. That's were they hide the heroin. Only good smokers know that!
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
I was taught to knock the clip to make sure the rounds are seated properly in the mag before shooting if the mag had been carried around before the use to prevent feed errors.
It's a MAGAZINE! Were not talking Garands and Brens.
Karaya
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
It also allows more heat at the end when the "cherry" is closer to the butt. That's were they hide the heroin. Only good smokers know that!
Sure thing Denis Leary. :)
Karaya
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Sure thing Denis Leary. :)
Karaya
Yup....I used to listen to "no cure for cancer" while driving to school and smoking my morning ciggaret every day
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Yeah, I did that while wearing a softcap once, ONCE !!!
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Originally posted by Nilsen
To make sure the rounds are properly set i the clip?
Thats why I did it when I was "in"
Gunns
19th SFG(A),21st TAACOM,1st ID
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Originally posted by GScholz
Yes, the short "red farts" were horrible that way. The newer long ones worked better.
one, maybe two rounds is all it took for the buggers to jam. never got to try the new longer ones.
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Originally posted by rpm
Tapping a clip against your helmet shows the car next to you you are serious about that lane change.
LOL!
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yep.. clips and magazines... I don't get too excited when people use em interchangeably... I still know what they are talking about.
most rifle and pistol semi or full auto rounds are "rimless" some are "semi rimmed" the rims can hang up on each other or stack in such a way that it pushes the point of the bullet further and further into the other edge of the magazine... you can rap the rim side of the magazine to re align them and keep the bullet points from dragging and causing a possible jam..
soo... it's not just for looks.
lazs
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It's a MAGAZINE! Were not talking Garands and Brens.
Well excuse me English is my third language so bear with me.
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Well then an M1's 'round holder' is considerd a clip..
exposed rounds,
Where as a magazine is one where the rounds are only exposed where they enter and leave?
:confused:
So M1, Kar 98, Nagant 91/30,=Clips
BAR, Stg 44, Svt 44,= Magazines
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the M1 used a 8 round "enblock" clip , the whole clip was inserted into the rifle magazine and ejected when enpty.
most rifles use a 5 round "stripper clip", the clip is used to insert the rounds in the magazine either with the magazine on the rifle or off and it is then discarded.
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yep... several guns use en bloc clips. You can actually load a rifele with one pretty fast since you don't have to remove the old empty magazine (clip) to reload.
lazs
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Laz what is pretty fast? This is fast
http://www.doublealpha.biz/images/travis_reload.mpg
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Originally posted by Schaden
To make sure that the rounds are seated properly - ie as far back in the clip as poss - and you do it against the heel of your boot not yr helmet.
Any hard surface will do just fine. I odon't understand why it has to be the heel of one's boot..that's usually where most of the dirt or mud is, anyway.
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Your helmet is nice and hollow, makes a loud noise.
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Originally posted by VOR
Any hard surface will do just fine. I odon't understand why it has to be the heel of one's boot..that's usually where most of the dirt or mud is, anyway.
just a guess but I would say so that in case of a round going off you don't shoot yourself or your buddy in the head?
Have no idea if a round could go off like that but seems most likely reason to me. lol
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I've never seen it happen, but not saying it never has.
As for the noise, once it's time to place what's most likely the second magazine in your weapon..noise is irrelevant.
I guess there's a reason, but I can't think of it.
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Ya the clip is the thing that rounds come in to use with your charger to load your magazine if they are not loose rounds.
The feeding lips of the front of the magazine will tangle with the point of the round if the round is too far forward in the magazine.
Doenst seem to be a problem with semi auto battle rifles like the L1a1(C1 in Canadian Serivice when I lugged one arround) but with the weaker springs in the m16 mags the rounds seem to get shuffled arround easier and firing bursts or full auto made them more suseptable to feed jams.
If the spring in the mag was strong enought tapping the map wouldnt be able to shuffle the rounds anyway unless you really wacked yourself.
I never really had much trouble with M16s jamming, I found them very accurate. But man they are fragile for a war weapon.
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We allways tapped our mags when we had blanks. The round wasnt long enough to fill the length of the mag and they often slid forward causing your weapon to jam..(wich is not all that uncomon with blanks in an M16)
Usually during exercises we dug a small hole with our boot heel and ejected all of our blanks and buried them. The less blanks fired the easier it would be to clean your weapon when you got back.
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Originally posted by Pongo
but with the weaker springs in the m16 mags the rounds seem to get shuffled arround easier and firing bursts or full auto made them more suseptable to feed jams.
If the spring in the mag was strong enought tapping the map wouldnt be able to shuffle the rounds anyway unless you really wacked yourself.
I never really had much trouble with M16s jamming, I found them very accurate. But man they are fragile for a war weapon.
If you have pretty new M16 mags and they are in good shape it will fire reliably. Overall it's a great weapon IMO(well the A3 and later at least). But you're right those mag springs don't hold up worth watermelon and when they get weak they cause all kinds of feeding problems.
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The M249 SAW actually has a magazine well to take M-16 Mags if needed. It was allways highly discouraged though unless your mags were brand new.
Other than that it didn't work to well.
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Clip:
(http://www.ci.athens.oh.us/departments/Dare/Drug_Info/Paraphenalia/para_roach1.gif)
Magazine:
(http://www.rightbrain-leftbrain.com/images/playboy.jpg)
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fxi... that was fast but... not even as fast as some revolver guys do with full moon clips and.... they don't have some huge dorky magazine funnel on the bottom of their gun or a magazine sticking out at a 45 dgree angle from their belt... if they wore their shirt over it they would look like an overexcited teenager at a lingere judging contest.
Full moon clips hold 5-8 revolver rounds and you just drop em in the cylinder.
lazs
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The M249 SAW actually has a magazine well to take M-16 Mags if needed. It was allways highly discouraged though unless your mags were brand new.
actually your saw has a fire adjustment on the front (rate of fire)
http://www.armystudyguide.com/m249/studyguide.htm
If its cranked up (when belt fed-box it should be unless your armorer is slack) yes the clip feed doesn't feed the rounds fast enough into the chamber and you will get a misfire then have to clear the jam and re charge it.., a brand new clip may solve this but just crank the rof down.. problem solved..
Also I see alot of people wondering why you tap the clip.. one is dirt and grime.. the same holes in your web gear that keep all that nice rain water out of your magazine holders also lets dirt and grime into your web gear to foul up your magazines.. the other reason is to enshure that the ball ammo in your clip is uniform and aligned. (sometimes the ammo is not flush against the back of the clip.. the firing pin misses or barely contacts resulting in a misfire) (as gunslinger said especially if your firing blanks since they are short) (him being at the mojave (op4 jackal) has experience with this.)
This keeps the m16 happy and when i have done these things i have had no jams..(imo clip maintenence is more important than bolt cleaning, ive had bolts straight black with grime and still fire, but one bad mag{either worn spring, or dirt} and the weapon misfires every damn time..) (granted some of the military weapons are POS with 10,000+ rounds and little armorer oversight and those weapons have many problems compared to something right out of the box.. so all your clip techniques wouldn't matter anyway.. and yes i had to trade one of those pos's ( i think it was a old a1) in korea out becuase it was so fubar...
m16 is great weapon does what its supposed to do {be light, interchangeable,more ammo per weight, durable,women handling it etc} but it does have some nuances.. (im a fan of the AK47 fire and forget, maintenance, what maintenance)
the clip maintenence being one of them..
DoctorYo
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"(sometimes the ammo is not flush against the back of the clip.. the firing pin misses or barely contacts resulting in a misfire)"
The rest of your write up is accurate, this is not. The potential problem occurs when the round is being chambered and misfeeds. By time the round is fed into the chamber it has long cleared the magazine and is seated in the breach. Therefore, at this point, the magazine has nothing to do with how close the firing pin is to the round.
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actually im right i just didn't explain in the detail you just did.. (your right also just explaing another scenario)
try this again..
bullet in clip not flush against the back of the clip, when chambering the round it does not seat properly (thats why the little circular button to the right you start mashing on rectify a misfire..it pushes the round forward to seat in the chamber to enshure that first round is rightly seated)(after that first round goes then the gas operation will seat the next round where it needs to be unless your weapon has some grime issues or is a pos)
but if the round is not seated in the chamber correctly it doesn't get tapped by the firing pin correctly and you get a misfire.. (a loud click;the pin attempted but either missed due to angle of primer or out of reach)
(what your talking about there is no click becuase the round is holding the bolt or obstructing it.. (the pin wont get a chance to fire becuase the bolt is not where it should be)
does that correct your interpretation of my first ambiguous statement..
you could also have a complete feed failure (bullet sticking out of the chamber/magazine ) this is what i think your where describing (hence clearing the magazine) but im talking when the round is in chamber just not seated correctly which is very possible..
the pin doesn't hit the round right and you get a failure.. (also happens from worn firing pins)
hope this clears it up...
DoctorYo
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i win!
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no yo... that doesn't clear it up. the firing pin and magazine have no relationship. if the round is not seated (the bolt not fully closed) then there will be no firing pin strike, light or otherwise.. the firing pin will simply not function at all. The danger is, as was stated, that the rounds will not feed correctly and you will get a jamb. there is probly some relationship between the extractor, the bolt, or both but not the firing pin... the firing pin only functions after the round is seated and the bolt is fully closed.
weapons that fire from an open bolt and have a fixed firing pin or striker are somewhat different.
lazs
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
We allways tapped our mags when we had blanks. The round wasnt long enough to fill the length of the mag and they often slid forward causing your weapon to jam..(wich is not all that uncomon with blanks in an M16)
Usually during exercises we dug a small hole with our boot heel and ejected all of our blanks and buried them. The less blanks fired the easier it would be to clean your weapon when you got back.
Dear Mr. Gunslinger,
Please send us repayment for all the blank ammunition you destroyed without authorization.
Signed,
The US Taxpayers
:D
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On a more serious note, anyone have a fix for constant misfeeds on the Lee Enfield Mk.4? I have one that constantly misfeeds and fails to eject with both 10 and 5 round magazines. Do I need to go get a new bolt?
- SEAGOON
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Usually during exercises we dug a small hole with our boot heel and ejected all of our blanks and buried them. The less blanks fired the easier it would be to clean your weapon when you got back.
Hey at least you had the option!! Ever see a recapture exercise at one of our missile facilities? Oh, it's a real hoot, farmer's used to get a giggle out of it I'm sure. A bunch of grown men running around screaming things like "RATATATAT" and "BANG BANG YOUR DEAD".
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Originally posted by john9001
the M1 used a 8 round "enblock" clip , the whole clip was inserted into the rifle magazine and ejected when enpty.
most rifles use a 5 round "stripper clip", the clip is used to insert the rounds in the magazine either with the magazine on the rifle or off and it is then discarded.
I hope your informing the people who don't know and telling me..
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Originally posted by Seagoon
On a more serious note, anyone have a fix for constant misfeeds on the Lee Enfield Mk.4? I have one that constantly misfeeds and fails to eject with both 10 and 5 round magazines. Do I need to go get a new bolt?
- SEAGOON
Do you work the bolt "smartly"? That is, you should open it quickly, and close it quickly. No babying it! Ejection is solely dependant upon the amount of force you apply as you open the bolt on that rifle, unlike a Remington with a spring ejector. Feeding is the same way. The brits were able to fire very quickly with their SMLEs, and if you ever see footage of a tommy firing one, you will see what I mean. They really wailed on that bolt handle.
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ah seagoon... brings a tear to my eye knowing that another ex brit comes here and first thing... buys a rifle and enjoys shooting it..
I have a smle and it functions very well even moving the bolt slowly... what is actually happening? Is the round simply not chambering fully? Is the front of the round not being guided into the chamber?
lazs
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
It's a MAGAZINE! Were not talking Garands and Brens.
Karaya
Hehe, I was just thinking of Hawklore's comment about
reenactors and was thinking how stupid it would look for
M-1 garand guys to tap the clips. Then the lightbulb came
on and I realized he was talking about the carbines ;)
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GTO... you have a Garrand right? If you load the clips they will often have rounds that aren't seated flush with the bottom of the clip. I allways tap (pound) on these clips to seat the rounds. With the longer reloads the clip won't even go in the rifle if you don't...
Loaded some 168 grain noslers with the plastic tips with some IMR powder and they were pretty long.
lazs
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the firing pin and magazine have no relationship.
Show me in qoute form where i said they did.. actually they do have one just a indirect one (feed), i didn't mention that either but i want you to find where i said that or the above question in quote form..
you write:
if the round is not seated (the bolt not fully closed) then there will be no firing pin strike, light or otherwise.. the firing pin will simply not function at all.
From my unedited post above:
but if the round is not seated in the chamber correctly it doesn't get tapped by the firing pin correctly and you get a misfire.. (a loud click;the pin attempted but either missed due to angle of primer or out of reach)
(what your talking about there is no click becuase the round is holding the bolt or obstructing it.. (the pin wont get a chance to fire becuase the bolt is not where it should be)
Before i explain it again: what level of reading level do you have.. because it looks like i just described the exact scenario (second paragraph)your harping on before you even posted.. now before i go wtf; you get a exemption if you on any meds... drugs, booze, women (they count as a drug) becuase this is so borderline simian and hypocratic im in awe... (this is the stuff why i frequent these boards pure unbridled chimpanzee with chaos theory to the 2 power.., I freaking love it..)
I did explain that by having a fouled magazine you may not get proper feed into the chamber (note bullet in chamber with bolt closed,{hence magazine and firing pin have no direct relation} that still results in misfire from pin not contacting the round.. (hence the click.. if round was fouling the bolt then there would be no click so i agree there but again you are saying one scenario i am saying another. one the bolt is seated(not properly but enough to allow the firing pin activate) the other they bolt is not seated and hence no firing pin activation...)
Lazs you may know your pistols, black powder weapons, hellz angels and whatever else.. but dont go jumping into a discussion where your wrong.. let alone so damn wrong that you using my own text to lambast me when i clearly described what your harping about in a earlier post one that you have acknowledged you read by this comment:
no yo... that doesn't clear it up.
If you had 100 rounds of experience you most likely have had the scenario of what im describing .. round in chamber, bolt ready, firing pin clicks but you get a misfire.. its not rocket science..
dont over complicate, just read (dont read into) and make your comments..
Whoever can find in my post where i say the firing pin and the magazine are directly related Ill give you a cookie.
DoctorYo
PS:fellas better get your reading skills up; dont make me call the "Sweet Pickles Bus" on your non reading arses..
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no need to call people names, DoctorYo
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I don't know how many thousands of rounds I have fired through the m16 series but I have never experienced the bolt going to full battery and then getting a misfire that could be attributed to what you are saying.
The most likely reason for a misfire at that point is a weak spring or heavy fouling not the magazine preventing the least few thousands of an inch of travel. At the point of battery the round has long left the magazine and the bolt should not be near the magazine unless its badly deformed. Do you have any references to this particular situation?
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Originally posted by lazs2
fxi... that was fast but... not even as fast as some revolver guys do with full moon clips and.... they don't have some huge dorky magazine funnel on the bottom of their gun or a magazine sticking out at a 45 dgree angle from their belt... if they wore their shirt over it they would look like an overexcited teenager at a lingere judging contest.
Full moon clips hold 5-8 revolver rounds and you just drop em in the cylinder.
lazs
I have been to some revolver matchs and they are wicked fast. I am not a revolver guy but those guys that shoot open pistols are just jet eye fast and if you see it in real life they will make your mouth drop. btw
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Originally posted by Raubvogel
M16 mags suck.
Just mags ?
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dr yo.... I don't know where you got your doctorate but it didn't have anything to do with writing or firearms.
you claim..
"but if the round is not seated in the chamber correctly it doesn't get tapped by the firing pin correctly and you get a misfire.. (a loud click;the pin attempted but either missed due to angle of primer or out of reach)
(what your talking about there is no click becuase the round is holding the bolt or obstructing it.. (the pin wont get a chance to fire becuase the bolt is not where it should be)"
you SEEM to be saying that the magazine allows the round to seat into the chamber at an angle and still be far enough in for the bolt to close and lock and... the firing pin to function but... that .... the firing pin then strikes the primer (somehow) at an "angle" so you get a failure to fire? A loud "click" that you attribute to the firing pin somehow (impossibly) missing the primer or, worse.... you claim that the firing pin can't reach the primer.
When the the hammer strikes the firing pin or simply releases the striker and all you hear is a loud click.... then either the chamber is empty or you have a bad primer or... a bad firing pin. the round is not in the chamber at some odd angle due to feeding from the magazine in some bizzare way.
I am no expert nor am I some english major but... I have enough of both to see you don't have a clue.
lazs
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I guess we have to add the earler quote that started it (and earns me a cookie).
"try this again..
bullet in clip not flush against the back of the clip, when chambering the round it does not seat properly "
you are saying that the magazine firing pin relationship is that the magazine prevents the round from "seating" (chambering) or worse... that it allows the round to somehow chamber at an agle this is wrong of course because it the round goes into the chamber then it will seat there fully with no further relationship to the mag unless the mag is sticking up and making the bolt drag on the feed lips slowing the bolt... once the round leaves the mag and starts into the funnel that is the chamber... It makes no difference how it had ever been in or had left the mag (clip as you call it).
if you have to use the bolt assist it is because of a dirty chamber or odd sized round or the bolt slowing for one reason or another.
lazs
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I have been to some revolver matchs and they are wicked fast. I am not a revolver guy but those guys that shoot open pistols are just jet eye fast and if you see it in real life they will make your mouth drop. btw
Like this you mean?
http://www.m90.org/view_image.php?image_id=3232
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well lazs looks like I hit a nerve (double machinegun posts and 2 whole paragraphs on what im saying but its not what i said..alot of immagination though.. )
you think by posting 2 paragraphs of he said she said when what i said is clearly a record of these boards is going to gain you traction. that is a feeble tactic..
you SEEM to be saying
there is no seem to it, read and reply.. not seem this or seem that..
Heres the low low version..
mag fouls the feed system**(da bolt)** (doesn't feed the round to bolt/upperassembly right.. bolt mashes it in anyway..)
round gets seated but bolt does't go all the way forward (usually when changing a mag, the first round is most prone for this..)(or bolt get jammed from the round, pin wont operate under these conditions)
bolt is forward enough to allow activation of the firing pin.. pin fires but misses the round resulting in a misfire..(you will hear the firing pin click..)
I cant spoon feed it any more.. thats what happens..(ive had it happen numerous times personally, multiple weapons)(a1 in basic, had to swap out weapons to qualify)(a2 korea, dogged out weapon)(Riley A2 needed new firing pin, make your own deductions?) all your other scenarios are possible but im talking my scenario.. My first post was ambiguous, i corrected that in the second post...
If this doesn't clarify im not a miracle worker that can force you to understand. i cant.. only you can force yourself to understand.. that is if you want to understand.. putting words and heresay into my mouth is not the answer..
now others have claimed i said magazine interferes with the firing pin.. (note a bent magazine at that) .... i said show me.. (first post was ambiguous and could have construed this response i noticed after first challenge and I clarified..)
others have claimed full battery whatever that means.. Rabbit curious what is Full Battery..? (Jarine terminology? 8 UP?)
now lazs says something else..heh
When the the hammer strikes the firing pin or simply releases the striker and all you hear is a loud click.... then either the chamber is empty or you have a bad primer or... a bad firing pin. the round is not in the chamber at some odd angle due to feeding from the magazine in some bizzare way.
or the bolt is not all the way forward.. because the round is not seated in the firing chamber all the way due to misfeeding the bolt from the magazine which then the round interfered thru friction/dirt/other the normal operation of the bolt. hence push your bolt assist 3 times to push the bolt all the way forward and retry to solve.. bolt forces round in and you get a discharge when you pull the trigger instead of click.... if not eject the round and retry..
I give you a valiant effort at she said he said though...
the more feeble of mind would have fallen for it..
Rabbit read my second post.. says what im saying here just this is super watered down version hopefully this will clarify..
Fellas give the he said she said a rest or at least try it on someone who will tolerate it.. you send that BS my way I tend to go sledgomatic on ya.. (especially blatant attempts with the facts about 2 words {Niel's I win!} inbetween..
might even force you to machinegun post in retaliation. (lazs) truth always hurts the most i see...
have a nice day..
DoctorYo
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dr yo yo
Your just twisting and playing. Instead of getting into name calling ego runs with you I'll let it be. Regardless of how right or wrong you are its clearly impossible for your ego to let you debate the issue constructively
FWIW, full battery means the bolt has stripped the round off the magazine and brung it fully into the chamber and locked forward.
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Originally posted by DoctorYO
I cant spoon feed it any more.. thats what happens..(ive had it happen numerous times personally, multiple weapons)(a1 in basic, had to swap out weapons to qualify)(a2 korea, dogged out weapon)(Riley A2 needed new firing pin, make your own deductions?) all your other scenarios are possible but im talking my scenario.. My first post was ambiguous, i corrected that in the second post...
i can't argue with a "expert" like dr yo, but i have fired thousands of rounds of military FMJ ball ammo in M-1/M14/BAR when i worked for my rich uncle sammy and i NEVER had a missfire, or fail to feed or fail to eject, what kind of crap gun were you using dr yo? or maybe you needed a little lubriplate or oil? i shot with a dirty gun , dirty ammo and dirty shooter(sometimes we were clean).
say again, NO MALFUNCTIONS, or maybe they just trained us Marines better.
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LOL... now you are saying that because of the magazine.... the bold feeds the round into the chamber at an angle that allows the bolt to lock but then... the angle is so bad that the firing pin misses the round? this is beyond laughable.
You did try a feeble save with the defective firing pin explanation... Yes... as I said, a defective or very dirty firing pin will cause a light strike but... the bolt still has to be all the way forward and locked for the firing pin to be released...
Anyone here ever have a round chambered at an angle so that the firing pin would still function but then miss the primer?
dr. yo... you may indeed have fired thousands of rounds but... you apparently never really understood what was happening. that is fine... you don't really need to unless you are just interested or a gunsmith.
stripping the gun will show a broken or very dirty firing pin... it will be obvious and easyu to replace in the field.. you don't need to know much about function... a bad magazine will cause stovepipes and failures to feed.. again... easy to fix (dump the mag) you don't have to know why or how.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
GTO... you have a Garrand right? If you load the clips they will often have rounds that aren't seated flush with the bottom of the clip. I allways tap (pound) on these clips to seat the rounds. With the longer reloads the clip won't even go in the rifle if you don't...
Loaded some 168 grain noslers with the plastic tips with some IMR powder and they were pretty long.
lazs
Yeah have it happen all the time with pre clipped surpluss stuff, though when I am shooting I don't wear a helmet so I just pop one round out push them all back down and then put the round back in.
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dryo
It is better to try and clerify a mistatement like the one laz poinged out without being a condesending ass.
It makes you look like the one who is all defensive.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Usually during exercises we dug a small hole with our boot heel and ejected all of our blanks and buried them. The less blanks fired the easier it would be to clean your weapon when you got back.
Looks like that habit is spreaded around the world... at the winter all we had to do was drop them to snow one by one.
Anyways once I had a joy to give support fire (problems with ligaments; couldn't run) and for that I got about dozen magazines tied together in packs of two or three (rambo style...).
Strange how much crap and powder dust can one RK62 hold inside...
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Originally posted by lazs2
ah seagoon... brings a tear to my eye knowing that another ex brit comes here and first thing... buys a rifle and enjoys shooting it..
I have a smle and it functions very well even moving the bolt slowly... what is actually happening? Is the round simply not chambering fully? Is the front of the round not being guided into the chamber?
lazs
Laz,
While I certainly appreciate your sentiments, just for the historical record, the first place I fired a rifle was as a lad in Nova Scotia whilst on vacation with my family (I was hooked from that moment on) and the place I really learned to shoot both pistol and rifle was in St. Andrews Scotland as a member of the U. of St. Andrews Rifle Club (this was before the mass of Gov't white papers and firearms bans that made competetive shooting in the UK well nigh impossible). I've been blessed to have shot full-bore competition at Bisley Camp, and small-bore in the Scottish University championships (I'll have to post the picture from the awards dinner after I totally blew it for our team by shooting 11 shots on a 10 shot card). But you are correct in saying that my first firearms purchases were all in the USA.
Ok, on to the problem. I believe I move the bolt smartly (although since the rifle is scoped and I use it for hunting, I am sometimes forced to move it slowly and quietly. The problem I get is the round not being picked up and moved into the breach, sometimes the bolt will slide over and scratch it, sometimes it will jam at the rim. Also, when opening the bolt, often the spent cartridge will fail to eject staying attached to the bolt the whole way back. I've fired my father's MK4 (which I got him as a b-day present) and his action is much smoother. I suspected a bad mag, but the problem is just the same with my 5-round hunting magazine. Perhaps something is preventing the magazines from "seating" properly? I've put off handing it in to a gunsmith, but its frustrating enough that I think I will do so as soon as we have a positive cash flow.
The problem cost me a second shot last season (Took a long shot at a walking buck last day of the season, missed, he stopped dead in his tracks for at least 2 seconds while I struggled - frustrated as all get out - to remove the old cartridge and get the next to feed, by which time he was bounding away - I might as well have had a Hawkens rifle at that point).
- SEAGOON
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I was also talking about the BAR...
occasionaly a guy will, 'set' the blank rounds in his clip for his m1 garand, and of course we can all laugh at the guy who does it in Saving Private Ryan
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Is the .303 rimmed? Because for the longest time on our Nagants we were screwing up the laying of the rounds in the Mag. The rim of the top round would be behind the rim of the bottom round. It would not feed.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Is the .303 rimmed? Because for the longest time on our Nagants we were screwing up the laying of the rounds in the Mag. The rim of the top round would be behind the rim of the bottom round. It would not feed.
Yes.
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Lazs you claim what you say is correct, i say prove to me otherwise.. you keep putting words into my mouth ( i clearly described above; not what your saying.. again you attempt disinformation, a sign of desperation) saying i said this or that.. the record (any educated person will read the thread and call you..) shows what i have stated and i still stand by it..
whether you agree or disagree you won't see backpeddling unless im wrong. in this case, i consider myself in the right, even if self proclaimed gun collector disagrees....
What i really find amusing is you new knack for writers flair..
You did try a feeble save
For a feeble save i'm pretty good at that especially considering my precognative shutdown of your attack (the same attack your harping now as I pointed out earlier (the one where i rip and pasted your attack, note unedited, before you even attacked)(sad to be checkmated by the fools mate on turn 3 doesn't it..)
I do give you a bonus for using my speech pattern for the "feeble save" see now that has class...
:lol
Johnb: yeah it my fault i didn't pmcs my a1 as newb greenhorn in basic to determine the weapon was deadlined.. (other weapons worked fine after maintenence but still had initial problems)
Im shure your jarine training would have protected you from such a fate.. Hell while were at lets just say that marines are invincible... heres some marine honor for you... document your dead troops get relieved of your command.. semper fi..
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/25/international/middleeast/25marines.html
using your philosophy do you blame them for getting their heads blown off for having defective hill billy armor on their trucks..? just curious..? hell they could have at least boiled down their kevlars into some door/floor armor.. I mean superior jarine training and all...
HUUUUAAAAAAAHHHHH!
;)
GTO :
It is better to try and clerify a mistatement like the one laz poinged out without being a condesending ass.
your wisdom is noted.. I'll clergy-ize the next one..
The "Aspect of Irony" also says whats the difference from your attack on me above to my attack against lazs dumb comments.. let alone comments right above with me saying the exact same thing before he says it..
rebuttal..? ah yes you answered your own statement see how easy that was.. take a look in the mirror next time hypocrisy underroos man..
anymore...?
Have a nice day..
DoctorYo
PS: Im defensive... because GTO said so.. and it shall be written..
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weeellp.. thanks for proving everyone elses point! Have a nice day!
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Seagoon, I can think of a bunch of things, but can verify nothing unless I actually see the rifle.
1.) You need to make sure that the rims of the cartridges stack forward as they go further up the mag. If the rim of a cartridge that's right above the cartridge below it, it will not push forward because the cartridge rim caught on the other rim.
2.) Its possible (I don't know the Enfield rifle) that there's a switch on the bolt or possibly nearby on the reciever that is designed to change the fire mode. It'll either be on, or off.
On my Remington 1903, if it's on, the bolt will not come back far enough to catch the back of the next cartridge in the magwell. However, if it's off, the bolt will get stopped by the mag well follower if there are no bullets left in the gun.
My suggestion is to take a bunch of empty cartridges and put them in the back of the mag well. Try flipping some of the switches to see if the distance the bolt will pull back changes.
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Originally posted by DoctorYO
[
using your philosophy do you blame them for getting their heads blown off for having defective hill billy armor on their trucks..? just curious..? hell they could have at least boiled down their kevlars into some door/floor armor.. I mean superior jarine training and all...
HUUUUAAAAAAAHHHHH
well dr yoyo, in the old corp we did not have armored trucks, trucks were for hauling stuff not for use as armored fighting vehicles, my jeep not only did not have "defective hill billy armor " my jeep did not even have doors to hang "defective hill billy armor " on.
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dr yo... I would suggest that you try to get the money back that your dad spent on your doctorate. I would also suggest that whoever you are asking about these gun issues reply to me directly because you aren't comprehending or writing down what he says properly.
the firing pin can't miss the round. it has nothing to do with the magazine or the fact that the round is not seated against the back of the mag. Mag problems are from stacking or from weak spring, dirt or deformed mag lips. your real gem tho was saying that you mashed on the forward assist to rectify a misfire...
seagoon... They let you own and store at your house handguns and rifles in Scotland? I bet they didn't let you do a lot of deer hunting.
The .303 is a "semi rimmed" round and as such is prone to failures to feed if the rims are lined up wrong. The SMLE has a pretty good mag tho and I have never had any problem with it feeding slowly. What is the round doing after it clears the mag?
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
seagoon... They let you own and store at your house handguns and rifles in Scotland? I bet they didn't let you do a lot of deer hunting.
The .303 is a "semi rimmed" round and as such is prone to failures to feed if the rims are lined up wrong. The SMLE has a pretty good mag tho and I have never had any problem with it feeding slowly. What is the round doing after it clears the mag?
lazs
Hi Laz,
No, our guns were owned by the club and stored in safes at the range. Bolts, Guns, and Ammo were stored in separate safes. We used single shot .22 target rifles for "small-bore" competition and single shot 7.62 NATO target rifles for "full-bore" outdoor competitions. We also shot .22 target handgun (these were mag fed semi-autos). While some of the club members did own their own guns, I believe police registration and permission was required. After several of the laws changed, one of our members, who was doing the British version of ROTC (UOTC - University Officer Training Corps) in the Territorial Army (the British version of the National Guard) was forced to surrender a number of guns including an L1A1, the British Army version of the FN FAL, which ironically was the same type of rifle he was using in training.
I only went hunting once while I was in the UK and that was wing-shooting with a double barrel shotgun loaned from a friend. That was a great success, and I hope never to have to pluck a grouse again for as long as I live.
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Regarding the Enfield problem, keep in mind I do not own an SMLE:
(http://members.dodo.net.au/rlewin/images/SMLE.jpg)
I own a WW2 Canadian MK.4 Circa 1944:
(http://www.svvechtdal.nl/disciplines/Lee-Enfiwld%20No%204%20mark%20I%20SMLE%20transp.GIF)
I don't know if that affects the magazine feed as I've never owned an SMLE, but the rifles are at least slightly different in design.
Tell you what, I'll try to take some digi cam pics of the problem using a spent cartridge tonight and post them to the web so you can "see" what is happening.
- SEAGOON
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I would also suggest that whoever you are asking about these gun issues reply to me directly because you aren't comprehending or writing down what he says properly.
you asked for it go argue with them...
http://www.tradoc.army.mil/index.html
write them a letter telling them their training (FM 3-22.9) is all wrong and you could help them. (be shure to post a copy of such letter here for our entertainment..)
your real gem tho was saying that you mashed on the forward assist to rectify a misfire...
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-22-9/c03.htm#3_1
heres some "Gems"
3-1
A stoppage is a failure of an automatic or semiautomatic firearm to complete the cycle of operation. The firer can apply immediate or remedial action to clear the stoppage. Some stoppages cannot be cleared by immediate or remedial action and may require weapon repair to correct the problem. A complete understanding of how the weapon functions is an integral part of applying immediate action procedures.
a. Immediate Action. Immediate action involves quickly applying a possible correction to reduce a stoppage without performing troubleshooting procedures to determine the actual cause. The key word SPORTS will help the firer remember the steps in order during a live-fire exercise. To apply immediate action, the soldier:
S
* laps gently upward on the magazine to ensure it is fully seated, and the magazine follower is not jammed (see note).
P
* ulls the charging handle fully to the rear.
O
* bserves for the ejection of a live round or expended cartridge. (If the weapon fails to eject a cartridge, perform remedial action.)
R
* eleases the charging handle (do not ride it forward).
T
* aps the forward assist assembly to ensure bolt closure.
S
queezes the trigger and tries to fire the rifle.
{LAZ's tell them to remove the T portion, right}
theres more...
3-2
Malfunctions are caused by procedural or mechanical failures of the rifle, magazine, or ammunition. Pre-firing checks and serviceability inspections identify potential problems before they become malfunctions. This paragraph describes the primary categories of malfunctions.
a. Failure to Feed, Chamber, or Lock. A malfunction can occur when loading the rifle or during the cycle of operation. Once the magazine has been loaded into the rifle, the forward movement of the bolt carrier group could lack enough force (generated by the expansion of the action spring) to feed, chamber, or lock the bolt
Its get better....
you fellas look at 3-2 A for what Lazs and others were talking.. (remember i said we were both right to first post that apprently does not compute with our new armorer overlords)
But i want what im talking about so here....
3-2 B
Failure to Fire Cartridge. This is a failure of a cartridge to fire despite the fact that a round has been chambered, the trigger pulled, and the sear released the hammer. This occurs when the firing pin fails to strike the primer with enough force or when the ammunition is defective.
(1) Probable Causes. Excessive carbon buildup on the firing pin (Figure 3-2, A) is often the cause, because the full forward travel of the firing pin is restricted. A defective or worn firing pin can give the same results. Inspection of the ammunition could reveal a shallow indentation or no mark on the primer, indicating a firing pin malfunction (Figure 3-2, B). Cartridges that show a normal indentation on the primer, but did not fire indicate faulty ammunition.
Sear released sounds like the firing pin trying to strike the round..(as i describe d in my posts, not what others have put into my mouth and claimed i said..) But your say..
the firing pin can't miss the round.
Hell Lazs the army is hard up why dont you join and put all of that superior gun knowledge to use.. I mean by your standards the forward assist is a design flaw not used to push the bolt forward to enshure proper operation of the bolt / firing pin to the round.. they could use a brainiac like you. You be SGT Major in no time flat..
hows the serving of crow out in Dixon, you want seconds..
DoctorYo
PS: Looks like I wont have to hit my dad up for money he did not spend on my college tuition.. but if you want to think that please be my guest.. based on deductive reasoning of you recent crow in mouth i would say you have no credibility at all.. anymore? thought so..
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Our armorers made a habit of telling anybody they saw tapping a magazine with live ammo against our heads or something to stop doing it.
They said it isn't necesary and it stresses the joints of the magazine and causes them to spread in the front of the mag.
I heard more than one armorer from more than one place say that, so I figured it was a message that came down from on high.
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The lever I was talking about is possibly near the back of the bolt, or on the left side.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
The lever I was talking about is possibly near the back of the bolt, or on the left side.
Hi Lasersailor,
On the LeeEnfield 4 that lever is the safety. I always work the bolt with the safety off, the only time I have it on is when I am travelling to my stand or climbing into it.
- Seagoon
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No, i'm not talking about the safety. The 1903 has a safety on the very back of the bolt too.
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I'll take a look when I get home.
Thanks,
SEAGOON
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dr yo yo... thank you for all the cut and paste info on jams. We all knew that stuff allready.... what we didn't know was that when a gun missfired you simmply mashed on the forward assist to get it to fire or that the cartidge could be in the chamber at such an angle that the firing pin completely misses the "round" (much less the primer).
these are the things you said... when you were told that you got everything else right except that you threw an ego based hissy fit and simoly...
aren't man enough to admit you are wrong on a couple of simple matters.
It's ok tho... everyone else knows it by now.
lazs
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the above sounds like back peddling to me...
Note i include proof.... with links...
you provide more rhetoric, heresay and out right lies/misrepresentation...
keep digging maybe you'll hit china by the end of the week..
DoctorYo
PS you write Tradoc yet? can't wait to see it and their response..
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yo yo..
You include proof that a round can be chambered far enough to alllow the bolt to go into battery enough for the firing pin to function but miss the round entirely?
maybe I missed it and the link showed that a missfire could be rectified by simply mashing down on the assist and then... then what? You correct a missfire in a hammerless rifle by ejecting the round.
What is your problem with admitting that you made a mistake?
lazs
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and yo yo... please read your own cut and paste.
everything said there proves our point and disproves yours... the forward assist is not used because the firing pin missed the round or even made a light strike. it is used to get the firing pin to even work.
you cut and past also says what i said... that, a light strike is caused by a defective firing pin or dirty one. not because the round is chambered wrong... it doesn't say that anywhere.
It all says pretty much exactly what I told you.
you were simply wrong and you just kept saying more wrong things.
lazs
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Just becuase the field manual does not say the pin completely misses the primer does not mean it has not happened..(those are the most common issues. not all documented issues in the armed forces.. imagine every month or so amending that FM and reprinting it.. yeah right.. nice try though..)
the episode where i had a deadlined weapon with the firing pin left no mark whatsoever on the primer.. (maybe some residue from dirt and oil but mark/indent the primer no...) (And i stand by that also)
the Fm doesn't say alot of things but it clearly describes both scenarios I did describe earlier. the same one's where you said i had no clue and inserted alot of heresay as my text.. that is till the final FM backed rebuttal.. (now its just desperation spewing)
Like i said keep digging... whats next punctuation, grammar, and spelling
When im wrong ill admit it ... as stated earlier i'm not wrong on this one, you are...
even with all your so called expertise.. a simple google search would have set you straight... (I knew what i was saying was out there just took me time to find the actual manual.., but having experienced the scenario first hand; I knew I was right.. just a matter of finding the proof to back it..)
And even then you still try to nitpick.. (your arguments are getting weaker and weaker just FYI)
you wrote tradoc yet.... Dont argue with me argue with them..
I want to see you amend the sports technique.. (you say the T portion is a gem and not needed be shure to tell them that..) with your expertise they will listen to you no doubt about it...
lets see the letter..
DoctorYo
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yo yo.... please stop... you are even embarassing me.
your own cut and paste explained why a firing pin would not leave a mark on the primer.... it is a defective or dirt clogged firing pin or firing pin hole. It is impossible for the pin to miss the round because the round is in the chamber at an angle that would allow that to happen.... the bolt would be about half closed for this to happen and the rim would not even be caught by the extractor.
sheesh... you are willing to spread all this dissinformation just to not have to admit to one minor place in your original post where you had it all srong?
even tho we all admit that for the most part your post was correct... and... I admit that all your cut and paste from field manuals is essentialy correct (although simplified)
geeze... look at yourself.
and there is nothing wrong with the "t" section. What is wrong is how you state that after the firing pin goes click... it is time to apply the forward assist... this will do nothing. the reason for the forward assist is to get the round far enough into the chamber to allow the firing pin to be released.
At this point... those not terminally bored are wondering what exactly is wrong with you.
lazs
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Not to interrupt the YoYo Chronicles, but I did want to apologize. My wife and I had a date yesterday, and taking pictures of the problem with my Lee-Enfield did not rate high on the agenda. I'll try to snap some photos before this thread dwindles to nothing.
- SEAGOON
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and there is nothing wrong with the "t" section
Now you renig and backpedal your own comments.. let me remind you since you have selective memory..:
your real gem tho was saying that you mashed on the forward assist to rectify a misfire...
Remember?
ah.....
Keep Digging ..... your 1/3 of the way to china and are behind schedule pick up the slack
:lol
DoctorYo
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again.... you don't rectify a missfire with the forward assist... it is too friggin late for that. You mash the forward assist to prevent a missfire.
maybe it is just english that you have problems with?
"rectify (rekt f) v.t., -fied, -fying 1. to make, put, or set right; remedy; correct: to rectify an error. 2. to put right by adjustment or calculation, as an instrument or a course at sea. 3. to purify (esp. a spirit or liquor) by repeated distillation. 4. to change (an alternating current) into a direct current. 5. to determine the length of (a curve). [13501400; ME < MF rectifier < ML rctificre = L rct (us) RIGHT + -i--I- + -ficre -FY]
Hint... it isn't the ac to dc one...
you don't correct a missfire
"misfire (v. mis fir;n. misfr) v., -fired, -firing, n. v.i.1. (of a firearm; bullet; shell) to fail to fire or explode. 2. (of an internal-combustion engine) to fail to ignite properly or when expected. 3. to fail to achieve the desired result, effect, etc.: His criticisms completely misfired. "
you don't correct the failure of a round to fire by mashing on the forward assist.... it is too friggin late
lazs
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I cheated on the sports technique applying the t portion first instead of doing the whole process and wasting time and a round.. (depends if the pin clicked or not.., if not then just push the forward assist.. if the pin attemped to fire do the whole process because you will need to recharge the weapon..)
You learn this by being on a line unit and listening to your leadership/armorer.. Just pushing the forward assist (especially on a new clip loaded) enshures this earlier scenario i described does not happen or is limited in frequency..
I see sheesh , geeze , look at yourself. etc..."you are even embarassing me". cant talk english.. etc..
didn't i already predict last one, (the english one) the halfwitted attack in a earlier posting..
(From DoctorYo)
Like i said keep digging... whats next punctuation, grammar, and spelling
again selective memory.....(you should have caught that..)
"whats the best defense, a good offense"
is that your SOP?, better rethink your tactics with me.. your above tactics may work with other chumps, but as you can see the sledgehammer shows no mercy..
Ill accept your unconditional surrender when you are ready to give up.. all this geeze please sheez is clearly showing the duress on your fragile psyche..
(its whining is what it is..)
spare yourself the dishonor and surrender..
:rofl
DoctorYo
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Ah, again the self-portrait of a braying jack*ss.
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Ah, again the self-portrait of a braying jack*ss.
Again... Toad comming out of nowhere to put his 2 cents in ... usually negative..
I was tempted to put in a earlier post when does the 13 tas show up.. lesson learned always trust your gut instinct..
Toad.... nice to hear from you, glad you would grace this thread as president of my fan club.... keep up the good work..
I knew you wouldn't let me down..
DoctorYo
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Not suprised you instantly recognized the self-portrait; after all, you painted it long ago.
You made a poor explanation and are trying to dig your way out.
I suspect everyone in this thread realizes that in a normally operating M-16, the bolt has has to be closed for the trigger to release the firing pin to strike the primer.
You botched your early explanation and your immense ego has you sledgehammering your forehead against a concrete wall while trying to avoid admitting it.
It's funny that one rarely sees the Pope, apparently the only other infallible person on this earth, making such a fool of himself.
But then perhaps your spectacle is sufficient example for the entire world.
Carry on, Dr. Infallible.
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It appears that like Lazs you have selective reading and memory..
there was confusion in my first posting (some interpreted what i said to be wrong.. and i admit it was ambiguous, i clarified... then lazs barges in and harps on me about the exact thing i decribed no less than 100 words above his..(note my sledgehammer was tucked away on earlier postings) But once you use my very own scenario as ammunition like i didn't discuss it then say i have no clue then I tend to rub things like that into your pudgy little face.. (lesson to lazs) (and by his responses it vexs him..good.. )
now (as predicted in fact lets just use the mathmatical concept as a given) your trying to get into this thread and drown it out with bandwagon whitenoise like you always do.. (be shure to get the whole 13th to put their 2 cents in and make me proud..)
I am fallible just not on this subject as i clearly have pointed out numerous times.. granted what others were putting into my mouth was clearly wrong.. you need to read what I said not what others say i said.. you do then it all becomes clear..
good to hear that you still like to take the odd swipe at me i'll repay the favor when time permits.. at least debating with you has some relevence to the subject as opposed to the nitpicking whining lying and other dribble lazs came at me with until i rubbed the FM into his face..(after that its geez sheesh etc..)
You pass alot of judgement but as you clearly see i said we were both correct.. that didn't compute with lazs though.. who went on a witchhunt.. (and the sledge came out and wack a mole was the game..) only problem for him he was the mole (and wrong at that..).... better luck next time..
Good to hear from you Toad have a pint a kelly's and light a candle; grumble about me tonight old dog, would ya... thank you..
;)
DoctorYo
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As I said many times before - M16 design was an act of sabotage. In USSR an engineer who offered such a weapon design could get fired, and people who adopted such a design for armed forces could get jailed. In modern Russia adopting such a design can only be a result of a multimillion dollar bribe.
I only wonder - if it was only a matter of making big money or hatered towards their own soldiers?...
Like a Lefthander's secret: "Don't clean the barrels with ground bricks!"....
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LOL Boroda
What is it that you think is wrong with the M16?
welcome back, you are doing well now?
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As I said many times before - M16 design was an act of sabotage. In USSR an engineer who offered such a weapon design could get fired, and people who adopted such a design for armed forces could get jailed. In modern Russia adopting such a design can only be a result of a multimillion dollar bribe.
That is the most intelligent thing you've said yet.
What is it that you think is wrong with the M16?
Quite possibly the thousands of people that died at it's hands. Err, I mean americans that died because of it.
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Its a fun gun to shoot at a range, but the design has some "interesting" feautres, the biggest being the direct gass into the bolt carrier.
I just wanted to here the Russian take on it.
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
LOL Boroda
What is it that you think is wrong with the M16?
welcome back, you are doing well now?
Thanks, I get better every day, now I can evem jump and run, only the scar itches a little ;)
M16 is for me a symbol of American "engineering" at it's worst side. An expensive, difficult to maintain and unreliable design. When I first read about direct-action gas automatics I thought it's a joke.
And it has problems with cartidge alignment inside a clip... It's hard to believe such a thing could be ever adopted for military use. Definetly a sabotage.
Americans are always pragmatic (we should learn from you guys), but in this case commercial pragmatism have won over engineering pragmatism. At least it's the way I see it.
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About the only time I think of you is when I read another bit of your eternal self-glorification. And the thought is "that jack*ss hasn't changed a bit".
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(http://img.epinions.com/images/opti/60/54/Stanley_Tape_Measure_Shop_Tools-resized200.jpg)
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I don't get it Vor?
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your eternal self-glorification.
Is this some type of hypocritical joke..
Toad:
Registered: Aug 1999
Location: Field of Dreams, Grassstrip, USA
Posts: 11640
Lazs:
Registered: Sep 2001
Location: dixon, ca
Posts: 11991
DoctorYo:
Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Ft. Lauderdale FL USA
Posts: 569
Toad:
11640/569 = 20.46 (rounded)
thats 20.46 posts to my every 1
Lazs:
11991/569 = 21.07 (rounded)
Thats 21.07 post to my every 1
combined:
41.53 posts to my every 1...
:confused:
Clearly "eternal self-glorification..." (sorry left my shovel at home to day.. but did bring sledgehamer you want more? how bout a sidedish of crow..)
DoctorYo
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What do post numbers have to do with anything?
You are saying your 600 or so posts are all self glorifying, but you are less of a self glorifier then Say Toad because you have way less posts?
If not what exactly is your point, because it is pretty stupid to say every post here by a person is for self glorification.
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
What do post numbers have to do with anything?
You are saying your 600 or so posts are all self glorifying, but you are less of a self glorifier then Say Toad because you have way less posts?
If not what exactly is your point, because it is pretty stupid to say every post here by a person is for self glorification.
I think dr yo yo is addicted to something beyond his ego. There can be no other explanation for his freaky behavior.
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I don't think I have ever seen a more one sided debate. Nor one with such horrible grammer and spelling.
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You are saying your 600 or so posts are all self glorifying
Show me where i said that.. or is this more of your words in mouth tactics that prevail these boards..
you fellas need to come up with another tactic i mean really this particular disinformation technique is getting overused...(i count 6-7 this thread) get creative or something.. get some flair some culture..
IMO
you can utilise the statistics any way you want im just putting out the facts..
you would think thru deductive reasoning (not assumption) that on a psychological level he who posts most wants the most attention... don't take my word on it its basic psychology.. (do your own homework im not going to do it for you) the loud yapper next to you on his cellphone he wants attention.. (latest study shows most arn't even talking to anyone) the loud mouth who always has something to say wants attention.. apply the same principle to the boards and you get a basic picture.. notice less than 5% have that level of posting (10k +) there is a reason for that.. people on the higher end of the posting spectrum imo want more attention just like real life.. granted this is only a hypothesis not theory but if i put some time that i dont have into researching it could be proven.....
maybe you can't see it but that doesn't mean i dont see it....
Hence the statistics...
no worries for you your in the median with a few thousand.. (you just exhibit extreme bias which you are entitled) Im on the low end of the spectrum.. (reciever of that bias, i dont mind its only text) some people are in the real high part of the spectrum ..(think rip has above 20k+)
make your own deductions..
DoctorYo
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You implied it by bringing up the post counts.
I asked you to clerify what you meant since YOU decided to make post count an issue.
You are making yourself look worse and worse.
But you are amusing.
In a sad look at that guy make an bellybutton of himself kind of way.
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Not the post number thing, the feed problem with my Enfield...
I took it out to take a picture and was cleaning it up for the photo shoot when I noticed a ball of "gunk" (probably ancient petrified cosmolene) in one of the spaces in the back of the magazine area. I cleaned it out with a squirt of Gun Scrubber, a toothpick, and then a Gun Scrubber soaked Q-tip, and hey presto the magazine now seats better every time. I believe that before the magazine often wasn't high enough to allow the bolt to properly engage the top round when the spring was compressed by a full load. Now the mag goes in with a smooth comforting click instead of the nasty crunchy feel and it feeds right each time.
(http://www.providencepca.com/uploads/Enfield1.jpg)
Gotta admit, I'm good about cleaning the barrel and the bolt, but lazy about cleaning and oiling the other parts of the rifle.
Bad Seagoon! No venison!
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seagoon... yep, a mag that was not seated all the way would act just like one with damaged feed lips changing the angle of feed.. That would explain why two mags would both act the same.
yo yo... I have to admit that i do not recognize you from any earlier confrontations but..
if your abilities in this debate are as good as they were in a previous one then.... your self proclaimed victory in the earlier one (whatever it was) is pretty laughable.
you continue to say over and over that the round can be chambered enough to allow the firing pin to function but still miss the entire "round"... this is beyond wrong.
you say that useing the forward assist will correct things when the gun missfires. That is wrong and not what the manual that you quoted said.
You have never answered these point...till now.... Now you claim that you might have gotten things out of sequence..
If you had simply admitted that in the first place we wouldn't be putting everyone through this. Instead... you obviscated the whole thing. You called everyone who caught you names.
You may be a moron but at least you are a high strung moron.
lazs
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You have never answered these point...till now.... Now you claim that you might have gotten things out of sequence..
your still barking , lying and misinformation dealing... you go girl... li
I answered pretty clearly your just trying to lie , lie, lie, did I say lie.. yes lie.. dig.. misqoute.. lie.. then get your cheerleaders on the bandwagon... a vanquishing attack indeed.... I feel oh so belittled..the crowmag does not agree with me.. In fact Im so distraught over the whole episode.....
:lol
if drowning out the thread with whitnoise somehow gains you victory then be my guest..
everything you having challenged (like the above nonsense that i already answered) i have rebuttled and rubbed into your face (and you and your cheerleaders dont like that. you started it you eat the crow that comes along with it..) with fact not hersay..
I don't need to explain anymore read the post it says it all..
maybe if you get enough cheerleaders it might deter me, then again most likely not.. (considering i what i said i have lived)(your latest cheerleader has claimed now that im "freaky" {ooo freaky} and addicted to something.. please fellas more smear.. less fact.. and maybe you might gain advantage..)
your tactics are pathetic thats all i have to say.. (heresay, lies, bandwaggon bashing, more lies, and more lies..) please utilise the rest of the thread to roast and chime/lie and be merry at my expense..
Its only text.. and since this thread has now become all heresay she said he said( with record right above them saying different, the thread records all..) blatant lies/attack addictions freaky.. your embarrrrrrrrrrrressed and whatever else you can dream up it bores me.. If i wanted fiction novel I'd go to the book store/library..
The simian mind never fails to impress me with its audacity..
Have a nice day... I will..
:lol
DoctorYo
PS for a self proclaimed gun god you shure are wrong on this one..(your makarov write was good.. stick to pistols and black powder and leave the military weapons to those in the know..) if you rebuttal what i say in the above statement post your military experience with it.. if you cant (due to no experience) pipe down Francis..
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lazs,
When are ya going to learn. Some folks will just beat their chests and howl like monkeys until you just give up then declare victory. Let him be a little monkey and save yourself the frustration.
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It's been awhile since we had a meltdown, thanks for providing one Yo.
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It is pretty funny to watch though!
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I might have went too far in this case.
I couldn't bring myself to simply say..."yes, yes... of course thank you very much."
I don't know where I ran into this guy before but.... Ya gotta give me credit... it musta been pretty good to keep him quiet this long.
and.... I really hate all the fawning and pandering that thrawn allways throws my way.
lazs
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Originally posted by Thrawn
It's been awhile since we had a meltdown, thanks for providing one Yo.
The results of tapping a clip on your helmet too many times when you weren't wearing a helmet at all?
You have to admire the Emperor of Cyberspace's new clothes though, don't you? Is that invisible sceptre really a sledgehammer?
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Experimuniuament!!!
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Originally posted by VOR
(http://img.epinions.com/images/opti/60/54/Stanley_Tape_Measure_Shop_Tools-resized200.jpg)
2nd that...
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alignment and to let the enmy know which direction to shoot.