Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: bustr on April 21, 2005, 02:51:38 PM

Title: How much does Video affect rubber bullets?
Post by: bustr on April 21, 2005, 02:51:38 PM
With the 2.03 and its patches I've had to move my top two video sliders gradualy all the way to the right into performance to get my minimum FPS on the ground back to around 60. During this I noticed as I incrimented the sliders to the right I started getting more kills and assists. I no longer see hit flashes very often though. But previously I would see lots of flashes and the other plane would just fly away.

How much does moving the sliders to the far right end of performance rather than eye candy effect rubber bullet syndrome?

System:

Intel 850E chipset
P4 3.06Ghz
RAMBUS PC1066 1G
ATI 9700 Pro 128
SB Audigy 2
Title: How much does Video affect rubber bullets?
Post by: stantond on April 21, 2005, 03:38:49 PM
Now that you mention it, I have been moving the video sliders to the left recently and can't hit much of anything.  I thought it was something else (maybe lag) and have been checking my net status frequently.  Net status has been good.  

I will move the sliders right and see how that turns out.  Good observation.


Regards,

Malta
Title: How much does Video affect rubber bullets?
Post by: pellik on April 21, 2005, 03:49:17 PM
I've always found that a smooth framerate helps with gunnery. I don't think it has anything to do with the rubber bullet effect.

-p.
Title: How much does Video affect rubber bullets?
Post by: Shane on April 21, 2005, 03:56:00 PM
smooth fps means better gunnery means more hits, i.e.  you can better adjust for the misses that you thought would be hits.
Title: How much does Video affect rubber bullets?
Post by: bustr on April 21, 2005, 04:01:09 PM
pellik,

It won't hurt some number of players to give this a shot and see what happens. If they see an improvment in the numbers of assists and kills, then it's just one more of those littel bites in the kester that can be put to rest to help peoples enjoyment.
Title: How much does Video affect rubber bullets?
Post by: Stang on April 21, 2005, 04:21:13 PM
All i know is rubber bullets have been much more common since the new version.  Don't know why, but I've heard lots of people complaining about it as well.
Title: How much does Video affect rubber bullets?
Post by: WMLute on April 21, 2005, 04:46:29 PM
past couple days, I've rtb bingo ammo.  for some this is no big deal, but I almost ALWAYS run out of fuel before ammo.

I too have noticed that something has "changed".  Either HT has tweaked gunnery, or changed SOMETHING to affect my gunnery.  Just not normal me flying home bingo ammo in a niki with only 5-6 kills.

Could it be video?  hmm.... good ?  I'll play with sliders and see if THAT helps, but dang it HT, I shouldn't have to.
Title: Validation
Post by: Chilli on April 21, 2005, 05:07:11 PM
Thank you for this thread.  :aok

I thought that I was stealing kills or something.  The missing hit sprites has me concerned.  In the past it was the only way that I could judge rubba bullets.  Now, enemies don't display hit sprites but then you get  a kill or assist message constantly.:confused:

I always adjust my sliders going from gvs to bombers and back to fighters. :(

I have in times been so aggrevated by rubba bulletz that I have hit the mute button on my mic on purpose.    

Just when I have it solved, a new map or version.  My last upgrade was 2 months ago to 512mb graphics card.   I know that I don't have the top dollar graphic card or maybe not even close -  and I don't intend to.:cool:

I was drawn in to this game because of the smooth gameplay that I achieved using off the shelf cpu and dial up connection.

No, cable is NOT available in my area (after complaints for 4 years), no DSL, and NO WAY will I pay 90+ bucks a month for satellite connection.
Title: How much does Video affect rubber bullets?
Post by: kj714 on April 21, 2005, 05:12:14 PM
According to HT there is no such thing as a rubber bullet, rubbernecks !
Title: How much does Video affect rubber bullets?
Post by: bustr on April 21, 2005, 05:52:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by kj714
According to HT there is no such thing as a rubber bullet, rubbernecks !


I will conced to a better anacronim to describe this phenominon. But when I moved the top 2 sliders all the way to the right, I started getting better hit results, not by hit sprites that are now almost nonexistant, but by kill messages and assissts.

So then is it smoother video = more accurate gunnery? Or a better explanation than I can come up with? I'm just seeing more peices fall off and more black smoke trailing, fuel leaking and explosions since I got rid of eye candy with the sliders.....:)
Title: How much does Video affect rubber bullets?
Post by: Waffle on April 21, 2005, 08:56:30 PM
would the aspect ratio affect your view?

I noticed pre- 2.03 latest patch, in the shore battery, you could mark the cross hair with your cursor, then zoom in so you would still have a "center" reference. Anyway, upon zooming in/ out,  the sight would actualy be off of the "center" posistion.

I'll go eyeball  it some  more. wonder if its doing the same with aircraft gunsights.
Title: How much does Video affect rubber bullets?
Post by: Kweassa on April 21, 2005, 08:56:51 PM
Smoother frame rates help better gunnery, because it means visual informations are more detailed and easier to interpret.

 The only video setting that is known to cause 'rubber bullets' is with the Vsync.
Title: How much does Video affect rubber bullets?
Post by: WMLute on April 22, 2005, 03:49:55 AM
After reading the thread on what all the sliders do, I adjusted the middle slider, the object size, from almost all the way to the right, to around the middle ish.  Suddenly I was spraying my bullets, and not doing damage.  For the first time in well over a year I was rtb'ing without ammo almost every flight.  I usually run out of gas well before my bullets are gone.

Tonight I adjusted the slider back to the right, and started hitting 'em and killing 'em with the ease I was more used to.  

Could just be me, I might be 100% wrong, but I wonder if the object size slider is doing it.
Title: How much does Video affect rubber bullets?
Post by: mechanic on April 22, 2005, 05:46:40 AM
so whats better? v-sync on or off?
Title: How much does Video affect rubber bullets?
Post by: Siaf__csf on April 22, 2005, 07:18:28 AM
I remember when I used to fly warbirds that when I started flying 3D my hit% droped dramatically up to the extent that I could only land 1-2 kills flying the spit.

I did testing and I found out that in 2D my hit % was so much higher that it enabled me to kill 4-5 enemies with a single reload where 3D version forced me to waste most ammo to a single or two enemies.
Title: How much does Video affect rubber bullets?
Post by: pellik on April 22, 2005, 11:45:41 AM
Quote
Originally posted by kj714
According to HT there is no such thing as a rubber bullet, rubbernecks !


I disagree with HT then, there are rubber bullets. They are very very uncommon however and I only ever see them for the five minutes or so preceeding a server crash. Basically things at that point are messed up enough anyway that the rubber bullets are the least of your problems.

I was on about three weeks ago and the server was feelin a little laggy. Netstat looked good so I tried to ask on 200 if anyone else was having problems. It took my text about 3min to show up on 200, despite the fact that I was actively dogfighting enemy pilots and talking on vox. Rubber bullets kicked in, even though evasives seemed well timed (position updates were still fast). After another 3 min the next comment on 200 was that about half the players dropped. Then the server went down.

Unless your story is a lot like mine you're not having problems with rubber bullets.

-p.
Title: How much does Video affect rubber bullets?
Post by: StarOfAfrica2 on April 22, 2005, 11:54:09 AM
Quote
Originally posted by mechanic
so whats better? v-sync on or off?


On.
Title: How much does Video affect rubber bullets?
Post by: Clifra Jones on April 22, 2005, 11:57:15 AM
Thanks bustr, since 2.03 my hit % has gone in the comode! I will try this tonight and see if it help. I don't care about the eye candy and hit sprites are not important.
Title: How much does Video affect rubber bullets?
Post by: Ack-Ack on April 22, 2005, 03:18:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Kweassa


 The only video setting that is known to cause 'rubber bullets' is with the Vsync.



In AH1, FSAA/AA (anti-aliasing) also was a culprit, don't know about in AH2 though.


ack-ack
Title: How much does Video affect rubber bullets?
Post by: Hajo on April 22, 2005, 09:21:57 PM
Using FSAA at 6X

No Anisotopic Filtering

However....make sure VSync is on

No probs here
Title: How much does Video affect rubber bullets?
Post by: SKJohn on April 23, 2005, 01:22:00 AM
What is FSAA and "anisotropic filtering?  What function do they perform in the game?
Title: How much does Video affect rubber bullets?
Post by: LYNX on April 23, 2005, 04:52:48 AM
Quote
Originally posted by SKJohn
What is FSAA and "anisotropic filtering?  What function do they perform in the game?


I have no idea as to explaine their functions but I'll tell you how to get to them.

Right click deck top / settings / advanced / your vid card.  Once into vid card look through all the menues (forwant of the right expression).  Turn on or off FSAA and AA and try these settings in AH.  Personally I leave them on but thats best for my system... is it for your's ?

As for vertical sync  IT IS A MUST.  It has to be "ON" by DEFAULT not off or application controlled.  I lack the knowledge to explain their functions but Vsync off is Rubber Bullet mode... as we know it.

Another handy tip ... In Windows (I have XP home) you can tell windows to put performance into "Catches Cash Cashes" or what ever it's called, rather than programs.  Once I did that AH loaded in half the time and seemed to give me a couple of extra frames.  No harm in trying it out as you can turn it back if it doesn't suit your system.

I am going to try the slider theory as well... makes sense! but if it affects my jaboing ........
Title: How much does Video affect rubber bullets?
Post by: LYNX on April 23, 2005, 05:00:12 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Waffle BAS
would the aspect ratio affect your view?

I noticed pre- 2.03 latest patch, in the shore battery, you could mark the cross hair with your cursor, then zoom in so you would still have a "center" reference. Anyway, upon zooming in/ out,  the sight would actualy be off of the "center" posistion.

I'll go eyeball  it some  more. wonder if its doing the same with aircraft gunsights.


As a side bar here.  Why use your cursor to mark center ?  It's much easyer to use "PAGE UP / DOWN" to bring the cross hair down into view.  I have not noticed SB's firing off or outta line of the cross hair.
Title: How much does Video affect rubber bullets?
Post by: Waffle on April 23, 2005, 05:38:28 AM
It was when they were all buggy....they seem ok now....will have to check.

as far as marking center, just when zoomed in all the way, find it easier, i'll pan up and down and always have a "center" with me
Title: How much does Video affect rubber bullets?
Post by: stantond on April 23, 2005, 09:24:14 AM
I moved the graphics settings to the right of default but not too far to disable hit sprites.  I have been getting more kills and assists.  I turned tracers off as well.

I am not certain (as usual) that is all too my gunnery problems.  I 'went back to square one' and practiced shooting the offline drones.  One  thing I noticed, with tracers off and only looking at hit sprites, was that I need to aim a bit higher or lead more than previous versions.  A slight change has occurred in  the gunnery modeling?

I am a d400-d600 shooter and I found with a slight amount of g's (<1.3) I had to aim about 2-3m above the aircraft.  The diversity in offline drones is a welcome addition!   I also changed my convergence settings to 350, 400, 450 for six 50 cal's (I usually fly f4u-1) in an attempt to create more of a 'shotgun' effect (but that may just be wishfull thinking on my part).  




Regards,

Malta
Title: How much does Video affect rubber bullets?
Post by: Morpheus on April 23, 2005, 10:03:54 AM
Did a few hops in tempest last night with some squadies.

Shooting at 400d or less at wings tips, tails and cockpits and getting little to no damage.

I know enough to know when I should be getting damage. A few good sprites to a wingtip on almost any plane is enough to take it off. This is not the case for me right now.

I dont know if its my imagination. But my shots last night didnt seem to count.

I suck enough as it is without my guns being nerffed.

Again, it could be me, my connection or it could be that something actually changed in the game. Just saying...Somethings different.
Title: How much does Video affect rubber bullets?
Post by: Shane on April 23, 2005, 12:27:50 PM
i agree.. somethiing seems off... today (sat morn) i apparently had nothing but rubber...

and the past week or so it seems as if the la7 20mm (3 guns) are less effective.. i was seeing hits on planes, but no dmg...
Title: How much does Video affect rubber bullets?
Post by: Ack-Ack on April 23, 2005, 04:44:46 PM
The servers have been a little laggy these last couple of days.  Last night when the chat started lagging, there were a lot of reports of rubber bullets.


ack-ack
Title: How much does Video affect rubber bullets?
Post by: BBQ_Bob on April 23, 2005, 06:02:03 PM
You know there are way to many people with the same problem for it to be anything other than a change in the program, I hope HiTech chimes in and gives us the low down.
Title: How much does Video affect rubber bullets?
Post by: 214thCavalier on April 24, 2005, 05:26:25 AM
It does not have to be an AH program problem.
Most of the complaints re neutered bullets could be explained by rubbish connections to AH servers.
Title: How much does Video affect rubber bullets?
Post by: storch on April 24, 2005, 07:18:50 AM
I can whine about a lot of stuff and not seeing hit sprites is one of them but if I fire from an unloaded plane at a relatively stable target like a buff all my projectiles seem to hit pretty much where I want and it goes *poof*  I have shot at stuff and thought only to get a kill message up very shortly thereafter.  I suppose the hit sprites might not be showing up for other players as well.  It's all very confusing.
Title: One man's garbage, is another man's gold mine.
Post by: Chilli on May 27, 2005, 02:57:40 PM
;)

I am just saying that if, you would like to see for yourself, then move sliders to the right and watch them fall from the skies.

:cool:

Call it what you like.  The sooner that people stop dismissing these reports, or even worse, blaming the reporters for their POS (piece of crap) hardware, and giving solutions (uh,  like move the sliders...), the more likely we will find "useful" information (i.e.   "suspected culprit =object size").

Quote
rubbish connections to AH servers
Title: How much does Video affect rubber bullets?
Post by: dedalos on May 27, 2005, 03:36:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Morpheus
Did a few hops in tempest last night with some squadies.

Shooting at 400d or less at wings tips, tails and cockpits and getting little to no damage.

I know enough to know when I should be getting damage. A few good sprites to a wingtip on almost any plane is enough to take it off. This is not the case for me right now.

I dont know if its my imagination. But my shots last night didnt seem to count.

I suck enough as it is without my guns being nerffed.

Again, it could be me, my connection or it could be that something actually changed in the game. Just saying...Somethings different.


Not you.  You are right.  I can't hit planes at d200 anymore and when I do, I dont see hit sprites.  Also, last night I put 2 30mm (saw explosions) and a bunch of 20s from a G10 into and IL2 tail.  Nothing broke off and eventually after someone else took him down, i got an assist.

I know some will label this as a BS whine because it may not be happening to them or because its not good for their business, but 4 times last nigh I empied a full clip from a KI84 in to planes D200 and D400 in front of me with them eventualy flying away.  Tyffi guy chaced by the KI last night may remember and maybe can tell what he was seing in his end.
Title: How much does Video affect rubber bullets?
Post by: pellik on May 27, 2005, 04:09:02 PM
I think when HT gave us the better explosions he also updated plane debree. I've noticed that I don't see hit sprites as often as I used to, instead I see a barely visable cloud of black smoke and particles near their plane. It's not so much instant feedback, but it is noticable after the shot. I only see hit sprites when I really hammer someone.

-p.
Title: How much does Video affect rubber bullets?
Post by: MANDO on May 27, 2005, 05:24:48 PM
I tired of seeing enemies full of 20mm flashes and no damage at all, not even smoke. This happens to me mainly hitting Yaks and Las. I would say that cnx quality affetcs more than FR.
Title: How much does Video affect rubber bullets?
Post by: tactic on May 27, 2005, 06:44:17 PM
Higher FR is smother and does make gunning more effective.  but if your aiming sucks like mine 1000 frame rate aint gunna help.  Plus the Front end factor plays in on this too.  So its lots of things that can play in on gunning.

As was explained to me.
 Frame rate works kinda like this for the most part

- <------- the plane
here is FR of 20.   -    -    -    -    -    -    -    -    -    -    -    -    -

here is FR of  60.  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
 
here is FR of  90.  - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
 
20 fr would be lots of area to miss

less area for a miss with 60 fr  

and way less of area for a miss with 90fr

And there has been times that, I like the rest of you, have had wierd things happening as of lately.  

Its easy to tell if your getting Rubber bullets,  all you have to do is listen... regular bullets sound like this  "ping" "tap tap"..
Rubber bullets sound like this.  "Bong"  "bong"  <----(the sound) not the 420 word Bong.     lmao!!   :)
Title: How much does Video affect rubber bullets?
Post by: StarOfAfrica2 on May 27, 2005, 09:21:27 PM
Alright guys come on.  Now you've got somebody claiming that not only does he have rubber bullets, but they make special "rubber bullet" sounds?  Someone explain to him where "sounds" come from?  

From HT himself, if your FE shows a hit, there was a hit recorded.  Period.  You might think you have a shot, take it, and see no hit sprites at all, or even see your bullets go right through.  Thats a lag issue.  If you see a sprite, a hit was recorded.  Even if he keeps flying.  You just didnt hit him in a vital spot, or with enough concentration of damage, or something.  There are plenty of explanations without rehashing this rubber bullet conspiracy.
Title: How much does Video affect rubber bullets?
Post by: killnu on May 27, 2005, 10:00:28 PM
enough concentration?  P38 has pretty good concentration of firepower i think, but ive started to fly 4x20mm planes to get kills, tired of hitting a plane 3 different times in my 38 and he has no damage?  i had to hit a 109f three different times just to get an engine oil hit...then again, could just be me.
Title: How much does Video affect rubber bullets?
Post by: StarOfAfrica2 on May 27, 2005, 11:53:55 PM
What can I say?  You either believe the man or you dont.  He wrote the coad, he should know.  Endlessly debating the same topic with guesses about a problem you think may exist but cant prove doesnt get anyone anywhere except frustrated.  Just chalk it up to bad internet, and relax.
Title: How much does Video affect rubber bullets?
Post by: tactic on May 28, 2005, 03:38:07 AM
Some people have no sence of humor.......  :(   A person shound'nt  take everything they read, that a person writes,  literally.  

I have never thought there are really " rubber bullets"  as in, they bounce off the plane they are hitting.   Anybody with any brains at all knows,  that when it does happen its only the 20mm cannon rounds that really bounce off the planes and have this "rubber bullet" affect.     :rolleyes:  and sounds like this....  "bong" "bong" with a "rat-a-tat-tat"  "bong-tat"  :confused:  

lmao
Title: Miami Sound Machine
Post by: Chilli on May 30, 2005, 12:44:19 PM
:rofl
"Come on baby let me hear that conga........"
:lol
Quote
.... "bong" "bong" with a "rat-a-tat-tat" "bong-tat"


On a serious note:  

To Star of Africa2,

Sir, this only becomes a debate when, we are told in not so many words, believe non of what you see and everything that I tell ya.   This is not a bug (imho), in fact HTC had the foresight to include the sliders in the first place.  

The issue will not go away until it has become common knowledge, how to combat "the dreaded rubber bullet -- or fps lost (whatever you want to call it).  

Besides, there is some pretty good information to be gained by hearing of others experiences as well as some decent foot tapping rhythms too.
:aok

BTW, I have played on dial-up connection for the last 2 1/2 years, so I aplaud HTC for all that they have done to make this game playable for all.  So, again I say, telling me that  I have POS equipment doesn't make me want to relax; however, telling me how to get around it , does.

OS Name   Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
Version   5.1.2600  Build 2600

System Type   X86-based PC
Processor   x86 Family 6 Model 8 Stepping 1 AuthenticAMD ~1995 Mhz

Total Physical Memory   768.00 MB
Available Physical Memory   453.77 MB
Total Virtual Memory   3.71 GB
Available Virtual Memory   3.16 GB
Page File Space   2.96 GB

nVidia GeForce 5700VE
256 MB
Title: How much does Video affect rubber bullets?
Post by: dedalos on May 31, 2005, 09:23:22 AM
Quote
Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
From HT himself, if your FE shows a hit, there was a hit recorded.  Period.  You might think you have a shot, take it, and see no hit sprites at all, or even see your bullets go right through.  


Maybe this is how HT wants it to be.  I know what I have seen.
Title: How much does Video affect rubber bullets?
Post by: WMLute on May 31, 2005, 10:22:39 AM
Maybe i'm just used to it.  It's gotten to a point now that when I shoot a guy and see no visual cue's that I landed ANY hits, I now fly past and automatically click my view to that plane and look to see what fell off.  It's a large enough lag/delay now, that I 1/2 the time if I don't see anything drop off, I give it a second, and when I look, said nme is spiraling down w/o a wing/tail etc.

Not sure if it's the program.  Not sure if it's Savis.  But it's something.