Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: agent 009 on April 22, 2005, 10:17:13 PM
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Rommel pushes through to Nile delta. What does he gain? water obviously, but what other materials does his army gain? food, shelter perhaps. and...?
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I thought he died?
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Most of the useful part of eastern north africa is along the nile.
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Nile is also a short cut to the Indian Ocean. They would no longer need to sail around the Horn of Africa to get to the Indian Ocean. It would also increase the amount of trade and other contact with their Axis ally in the Pacific.
ack-ack
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Brits would no doubt wreck the canal walls. but it's capture would kick out British navy from med, therefore making supply of Africa armee much easier.
If one looks at a map of Red sea, one will see it is very long. & bottom is a bottleneck, which would be easy to blockade.
Nonetheless, capture of Nile Delta make moves into Iraq & oil captures much easier. But does not end brit presence along Red sea.
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Originally posted by agent 009
Rommel pushes through to Nile delta. What does he gain? water obviously, but what other materials does his army gain? food, shelter perhaps. and...?
Easy.
the Ark of the convenent.
anyone whos watched Indiana Jones knows that:D
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Ang the Stargate inside the Pyramid.
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I think his main objective was too seize the oil rich middle east from the Britsh.Then link up with army group south,in oil rich Grozny. lol nothing changes.;)
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What are we talking about here? History or some other game?
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Tomb Raiders :)
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The possibility of a Japanese/German linkup in the middle east or India/Pakistan was a real possibility and Churchill knew it. Granted this was only long term speculation, it still was cause for concern. Besides, Churchill favored the Italian "soft underbelly" approach to liberating Europe.
- It could cut the British empire and supply lines in two.
- It would be extremely difficult to gain it back if this were to occur.
The effects would be felt all over, especially on the eastern front.
Had Stalingrad fallen, what was beyond the Volga? Open country. Tons of it. Waltz south, link up in the middle east, and you've got a tactician paradise... relatively easy to hold.
One front is always better than two :)
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see? senile!
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Without malta not much.
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Well, original question was; what was of value in nile delta to armee africa. Not whether it could be taken without taking Malta.
Hypothetical is the word. Besides I made no mention of whether or not that was a condition on Delta being taken. One can argue that all day, but it is a different topic-thread.
Agreed it is a pathway to oil. One with less obstacles than El Alamein.
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The plan was to burst through egypt to Iran and link up German armies coming south throgh the Caucases oil fields.
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Heyn Grun. Um yah I know. I'm tryin to figure out what would have been of value in Alexandria & nile delta in terms of supplies for armee.
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Well they probably would ahve captured a lot of stuff as the British fled. Afrika Corps cerainly capured British supplies before when it forced thme to run.
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Yah, I read that at one point 85% of their supply trucks were British. With fall of Alexandria, one would think all types of vehicles would be appropriated, civilian as well as military. heavy equipment such as trucks, road maintenance vehicles etc.
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With the British defeated in Egypt Palestine and what is now Iraq was totally open.
Plus Suez gave access to the Persian Gulf and Indian oceans
Hitlers dream was to join up with the 6th Army which was making for Stalingrad and the Caucasus.
Then it all went pear shaped.
Regardless of this the bulk of Britians "Commonwealth" armies were tied up in North Africa unable to assist in mainland Europe as they had in 1914/8.
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passage into the middle east = OIL (or was it not found then?)
it also means they gain control of suez cannal........ = BAD NEWS FOR BRITAIN
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Ain't you done with your history paper yet 009?? Geez.
Peace
pillur
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AAAHHHH...but the ultimate prize........unlimited OIL...= Fuel
Which then the Germans would have been faced with a bigger problem........transporting unlimited oil supplies back to Germany, not to mention keeping refineries operational since u know they would have become priority targets along with transports.
By bombing the middle eastern refineries back into the stone age due to German capture, what effect would that have had on the Allied effort??
Hypothetically speaking of course :)
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If germany had got to the middle east....where would the allies bomb the oil from? since its bases would now be under german control...UK to middle east flights was impossibe
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Originally posted by Overlag
If germany had got to the middle east....where would the allies bomb the oil from? since its bases would now be under german control...UK to middle east flights was impossibe
Ya I know:( Southern Russian borders, India perhaps, who knows. Ya know allies would have acted fast though......cause the oil field captures would also have a neg. effect on good guys by severing major oil supply source. We might have had to learn how to sing "Der Fatherland" had this happened.
However, good guys threw der butts out of N. Africa.
WTG GOOD GUYS!! :aok
LTARokit, XO
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Originally posted by agent 009
Well, original question was; what was of value in nile delta to armee africa. Not whether it could be taken without taking Malta.
Hypothetical is the word. Besides I made no mention of whether or not that was a condition on Delta being taken. One can argue that all day, but it is a different topic-thread.
Agreed it is a pathway to oil. One with less obstacles than El Alamein.
OH..
papyrus then. And sand. If all your question is what matierial would they have gained.
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Papyrus & sand. Very imaginative.
Well how bout fuel? all the vehicles in that large city used fuel. D'ya suppose it was kept somewhere?
All those people in Alexandria ate too. That means food & drink,( a major supply problem across med ), is solved locally. Not too mention all the buildings in the city, ( better than sleeping in tents ), & medical facilities. Armies get tired, they need to recuperate. Having a major city like that solves many management problems associated with runnin an army.
Large buildings also make better tank & other military vehicle repair facilities. Paved roads help make things easier as well especially in rainy season.
& Last but not least, the ports!!
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Originally posted by agent 009
Papyrus & sand. Very imaginative.
Well how bout fuel? all the vehicles in that large city used fuel. D'ya suppose it was kept somewhere?
All those people in Alexandria ate too. That means food & drink,( a major supply problem across med ), is solved locally. Not too mention all the buildings in the city, ( better than sleeping in tents ), & medical facilities. Armies get tired, they need to recuperate. Having a major city like that solves many management problems associated with runnin an army.
Large buildings also make better tank & other military vehicle repair facilities. Paved roads help make things easier as well especially in rainy season.
& Last but not least, the ports!!
1: the fuel is supplied by the brits...once they are gone theres no supply
2: same with food, although the Nile is a great source for that
3: AS i said in the Gibralter thread, theres no point having loads of ports because the germans had VERY LITTLE ships to put in these ports. and any ships they did have was locked up in naval bases because they was scared to bring them out to sea
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Nope, they sent ships across med all the time. As for fuel, often it gets captured. Also a city that size would be impossible to destroy all fuel. remember civilian fuel is also to be found.
Tanks sent to Africa.
So, if I can add them up right for once, 25 Pz I, 120 (2) Pz II, 727 (82) Pz III, 328 (77) Pz IV, and 31 Tiger. Note that of the 1,393 recorded as shipped, only 149 were lost in shipping to enemy action (the 13 lost in March 41 were to a shipboard fire), or just over 10 percent. OTOH note that half those shipped as critical reinforcements to Pz.A.O.K. Afrika in December 1941 were lost.
Key word is "shipped".
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Originally posted by agent 009
Nope, they sent ships across med all the time. As for fuel, often it gets captured. Also a city that size would be impossible to destroy all fuel. remember civilian fuel is also to be found.
Tanks sent to Africa.
So, if I can add them up right for once, 25 Pz I, 120 (2) Pz II, 727 (82) Pz III, 328 (77) Pz IV, and 31 Tiger. Note that of the 1,393 recorded as shipped, only 149 were lost in shipping to enemy action (the 13 lost in March 41 were to a shipboard fire), or just over 10 percent. OTOH note that half those shipped as critical reinforcements to Pz.A.O.K. Afrika in December 1941 were lost.
Key word is "shipped".
yes, supply ships....but you have to remember germanys/italys ATTACK type ships, BBs, CAs, CLs, DDs was scared to come out of port to engauge the enermy......
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But out they came. Destroyers on French coast. Pocket battleships went into atlantic & Indian oceans. Sharnhorst & Gneisenau went into Atlantic. Many did get bottled up in Norway, but even Scharnhorst came out to fight in 43.
Hitler was afraid to send out Tirpitz I'll give you that.
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im not really sure why italy was so scared of using there ships though.... they had quality and more ships than the brits in the med....USING them would have forced the UK to use more ships in the med, making it easier for germany to get its forces out of Norway etc.....
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What would Germany have gained....Well if Rommel could have forced the Brits out of Egypt and into Palestine (now Israel) then the Germans would have gained strategic superiority in the region and the confidence that goes along with that. In the end they would have gained all of the above items listed but those would have been temporary items to prepare for the drive through Palestine and Syria/Iraq into southern Russia. If the German High Command (who by all indications who were fairly good long term strategy planners) would have been able to get their way then its entirely plausible that the tide would have changed in Russia before the debacle at Stalingrad which was the turning point in the east in my view.
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agent never described the method nor chain of events that led to cairo being captured yet wants us to imagine how much would be captured intact by the germans.
Telly savalas blew up the last panzer by rolling barrels of fuel down the hill at the last m46, thats why cairo didnt fall at all.
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That's because it could be done several ways. No east front attack, Malta attacked early 42 as Kesselring wanted. Several variables on how it might be achieved. different thread.