Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: storch on April 23, 2005, 11:08:54 PM
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eddiek is there a difference in the changable or controllable arena settings between the CT and the MA?
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Don't even start this crap. The CT staff cannot alter the FM of anything. Hell, I cannot alter the FM of anything. Get off your paranoid horse and cut the crap storch.
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IN IN IN IN before the ownage
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Storch, I don't really know ya but let it go bud. No reason to get into trouble for something you might regret and think is silly later. I know you might be askin a serious question, but to skuzzy I'm sure it's gonna look like you're pushin it again. Just let it go...
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Go into your offline settings. Play with all those settings and see if you can alter the flight model. Its the same things Staffers can do online.
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All the leaves are brown .... and the sky is grey.
It'll be good. =0)
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arlo get ur arse back in a plane:D good to see ya man:aok
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Hi there! I plan to. It may be a lil while ... but I plan to. So .. what's new with the game?
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bahh some ol some ol the new 190s are good lookin now if we could on get a Me323 or a He111 hint hint...
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Storch, I think it would be worth your time to go offline and play with the settings. Everything that the CT staff can set in the arena, you can set to whatever you want offline, its the same stuff. You will soon see if you do that, that there is nothing that they can alter in the settings that will in any way change the flight model.
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the flight model may not be affected per se and if the stall sensitivity is affected across the board then it is in fact all equal. I haven't played any allied plays but while playing them I did notice them to be squirrelly as well. my questions are simply this.
Is the stall setting the same as in the MA?
Is the stall setting functional even though the stall limiter is selected off on my particular settings?
I know very little about computers. I'm not trying to piss anyone off. these are legitimate questions and a correct answer can only serve to prevent further confusion ahead.
I accept eddiek's response to my previous inquiry. I suppose one must be lawyerly careful with word choice on this bbs.
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It is one thing to ask questions. It is another matter entirely to be accusatory, abrasive, disrespectful, and derogatory.
Just like this crap: "I suppose one must be lawyerly careful with word choice on this bbs."
Completely uncalled for and adds nothing to the discussion. You do it every chance you can get. If you cannot act in a respectful manner and have no idea how to have a civil discussion, then you better be prepared for the consequences of your actions.
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and the answer to my question is.........? this kind of response annoys me. go back and read the thread you locked. I'm asking a question basically. if people blow 50 amp fuses easily then perhaps upgrading to 60 amps might be helpful. the fact is you don't care much for me and take everything I write as offensive. that's fine with me because what you think of me bears absolutely no importance in any aspect of my life. I still don't have an answer to a simple question.
I'll repeat it are the stall settings the same in all arenas?
perhaps it may be perception as grits has suggested, however given that humans are creatures of habit and we who have been playing this game for a rather lenghty period of time develope "muscle memory" for instance I do not move my joystick more than an inch or two when playing. I don't suppose I'd be doing it differently from one arena to the next.
the other thing you may want to know skuzzy is that a few people have privately PM'd me in agreement with my statements on this issue but have also warned me that expressing this questions in any form may cause you people to ban me from the game.
while I enjoy this game most of the time I certainly don't enjoy it enough to concern myself with how I phrase certain questions or statements.
In my business if one customer calls in with a complaint I reckon that maybe as many as 10 others have had a similar concern and I take actions to remedy the situation. I view that customer as an aid even though many times I have to listen to angry verbal abuse on the phone. then again i don't consider myself or anyone that works with me infallible and I don't consider my product to be perfect.
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Originally posted by storch
and the answer to my question is.........?
It's STFU. :D
Woof
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Originally posted by storch
the flight model may not be affected per se and if the stall sensitivity is affected across the board then it is in fact all equal. I haven't played any allied plays but while playing them I did notice them to be squirrelly as well. my questions are simply this.
Is the stall setting the same as in the MA?
Is the stall setting functional even though the stall limiter is selected off on my particular settings?
I know very little about computers. I'm not trying to piss anyone off. these are legitimate questions and a correct answer can only serve to prevent further confusion ahead.
I accept eddiek's response to my previous inquiry. I suppose one must be lawyerly careful with word choice on this bbs.
Storch
If you are asking a genuine question , I'll try to give you a genuine answer , just from one point of view - can't speak for HTC
I have never noticed any difference at all between CT FM's/Stalls and MA FM's/Stalls. But I am simple folk , I tend to ride the stall a lot , so I honestly don't think much about "when" it starts to stall, just that it is , and it's time to react to that.
It may be that you are pushing the edge further in the CT than you do in the MA due to the closer nature of the fighting at times, and the fact the match-ups tend to be closer as well . I just can't imagine there being any differnces in that regard between arenas
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Originally posted by SkyWolf
It's STFU. :D
Woof
oh no he put the F in there uv done it now the BBS has warped my fragile little mind. dont u know that little kids read this bbs. what am i to tell my little sister when she asks waht that means?
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Originally posted by Redd
Storch
If you are asking a genuine question , I'll try to give you a genuine answer , just from one point of view - can't speak for HTC
I have never noticed any difference at all between CT FM's/Stalls and MA FM's/Stalls. But I am simple folk , I tend to ride the stall a lot , so I honestly don't think much about "when" it starts to stall, just that it is , and it's time to react to that.
It may be that you are pushing the edge further in the CT than you do in the MA due to the closer nature of the fighting at times, and the fact the match-ups tend to be closer as well . I just imagine there being any differnces in that regard between arenas
that may be a valid assesment and I'll try to monitor my control imputs as I'm near the edge, If I can remember when I have you removing chunks from my cartoon plane.
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Originally posted by SkyWolf
It's STFU. :D
Woof
I know, I know I just can't help it :D
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by the time I logged last night, 2 am est this morning, I had been killed by or flown side by side with some of AH best:
Levi
Redd
Truekill
daddog
Morpheus
jamusta
YUCCA
VWE001 .. to name a few
it was civil and extremely enjoyable, considering I spent as much time in a chute as I did an aeroplane :)
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You don't get it and you never will storch. You cannot see the difference between a discussion and taking cheap shots. To you they are the same.
So let me spell it out for you. Taking cheap shots is not acceptable nor will it be tolerated. If you cannot control you what you type, then you have made the choice to no longer be a part of this bulletin board.
You want to make this personal, and it is not. It is about being civil. You chose not to be civil, like TK, then accept the consequences of your own actions. I am not making the choice to do anything. You are making it for me.
I prefer a civil discussion, You have made it clear you do not. Your choice, not mine. Another long diatribe trying to justify your postion is a waste of time. You are wrong and you cannot justify it with any amount of rationilizations.
I cannot answer the question about the stall limiter as I have not set it for the CT.
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well skuzzy in actuality the question was first put to the CT staff. you put yourself into the discussion based on your perceptions, perhaps titling the thread with a sensitive topic like the term "FM" was a mistake. I'm not rationalizing anything nor am I attempting to be offensive.
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Perceptions eh. You really do not want me to fo through and pull out the cheap shots you take to demonstrate how you have set the perception, now do you?
And yes, we wil be all over you when you say make claims or statements concerning the random adjustment of the flight model, because presenting unsubstantiated and unwarranted rumor is detrimental to our business.
It was not the topic that got that thread locked, by the way. If you cannot see why it got locked, the you proved my point about you not getting it.
Now, if you want to carry on with this, drop me an email. The board is not really for this type of discussion.
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And yes, we wil be all over you when you say make claims or statements concerning the random adjustment of the flight model, because presenting unsubstantiated and unwarranted rumor is detrimental to our business.
Well your company does not seem to care what is posted on the BBS unless it effects game perceptions.
Your players can come on the BBS and post whatever they want no matter how far outside the norms of human decency. It seems rather petty to start getting huffy over the wording of a question just because it might be construed as rumor about the FM.
As I understand you can adjust the stall limits. It's an arena setting, correct? Abnormally high stall settings do affect aircraft with high wing loading. It creates a caricature of the aircraft lengthening the engagement distances, narrows the flight envelope, and encourages vulching by extending the amount of time it takes for an aircraft to build maneuver energy.
Lowering the stall limit has its own set of pitfalls. In effect AH does have an "easy" mode.
Why have it all? Unless it just there to make sure no one quite masters a particular aircraft.
All the best,
Crumpp
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Crumpp, storch, anyone else......granted I have been away from the game for a while, and resigned from the CT staff before I left last August, but......we posted in the staff forum prior to setups what we intended to run, settings, terrains, planesets, etc. and no one to the best of my recollection ever mentioned changing the stall limiter settings. It was just something we did not mess with, and as far as I knew then and know now, it was left at the default setting, which I presume was the same as the MA setting.
In times past, while flying in the CT, I would think something was amiss, that maybe a plane wasn't behaving "just right".
Upon closer scrutiny, I found that in 98% of the cases I was flying the planes more aggressively than I do in the MA. Face it, most times in the MA you have between 250 and 500 players online, and a situation can change in the blink of an eye from a favorable one, i.e., 1v1, 1v2, etc. to one where you are in deep doo doo, i.e. 1 v 10.
In the CT, you normally know how many players are in the air, how far they have to fly, what alt you will probably find them at, etc. and I felt more relaxed and pushed my plane harder as a result. I wasn't worried about looking over my shoulder and suddenly finding 20 bad guys back there, so I would press my attacks much harder, therefore pushing the envelope further as well.
I still defend the staff members because for as long as I can remember, there have been accusations or allegations of staff bias, manipulation, lack of interest, etc. which were uncalled for and unfounded. We have never been able to make changes to the flight models, and I repeat, no one ever made mention of touching the stall limiter. A change like that would affect all aircraft, not just one side, and would help no one at all.
Remember, folks, these guys are players too, they pay just like anyone else does, and they get frustrated just like anyone else.
My suggestion for anyone and everyone would be to relax and remember this is a game, intended for fun. If you aren't having fun, look at yourself first before pointing fingers at other players. I say that because I've had to do that myself in the past, and found that the source of my dissatisfaction was coming from ME, and what I expected. No one can be blamed for that but myself, and the same applies to everyone.
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so has a squad been disbanded in AH before?
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Originally posted by Crumpp
Well your company does not seem to care what is posted on the BBS unless it effects game perceptions.
Your players can come on the BBS and post whatever they want no matter how far outside the norms of human decency. It seems rather petty to start getting huffy over the wording of a question just because it might be construed as rumor about the FM.
As I understand you can adjust the stall limits. It's an arena setting, correct? Abnormally high stall settings do affect aircraft with high wing loading. It creates a caricature of the aircraft lengthening the engagement distances, narrows the flight envelope, and encourages vulching by extending the amount of time it takes for an aircraft to build maneuver energy.
Lowering the stall limit has its own set of pitfalls. In effect AH does have an "easy" mode.
Why have it all? Unless it just there to make sure no one quite masters a particular aircraft.
All the best,
Crumpp
Are you guys this paranoid in real life ?
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Originally posted by Crumpp
Well your company does not seem to care what is posted on the BBS unless it effects game perceptions.
You are so wrong about that. You ever see something out of line. Drop me an email and see how fast that gets taken care of. We do not 'allow' people to post whatever they like. But we are not going to spend everyday, all day reading every post either. It is not up to us to be the parent.
As far as caring about the perception of the game,..well DUH...of course we care about it. Make a mindless accusation and expect to be called on it. If you are not ready for the consequences, then how about not making baseless accusations?
As I understand you can adjust the stall limits. It's an arena setting, correct? Abnormally high stall settings do affect aircraft with high wing loading. It creates a caricature of the aircraft lengthening the engagement distances, narrows the flight envelope, and encourages vulching by extending the amount of time it takes for an aircraft to build maneuver energy.
Lowering the stall limit has its own set of pitfalls. In effect AH does have an "easy" mode.
Why have it all? Unless it just there to make sure no one quite masters a particular aircraft.
All the best,
Crumpp
The stall limiter is meant for new people. As you astutely pointed out, it hinders the pilots ability to fly at the edge of the planes envelope. It is up to the user whether they wish to enable it or not.
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One last time from the CT Staff side of things. I echo eddiek's comments in that in my time as a staffer no one has ever mentioned that the proposed setups would have adjustments made to the stall settings. I personally have not explored it nor will I explore it since I do not feel that an adjustment by me is needed. I simply am not smart enough to know/want to know what to do and how to do it.
Besides we as a staff take more crap on the FM than anything else other than plane matchups. To me its all paranoia and perceived bias by many of the players. It quite simply isn't worth the rise in the blood pressure to get so worked up about.
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One simple thing would settle or at least have prevented this argument….
TRANSPARENCY
Any and ALL configurable variables and their settings should be available to all players (# troops, downtimes, hardness, lethality, stall settings, whatever). Not to change, just to see. I don’t mean in the message of the day (that would subject the information to human fallibility). I mean a simple programmed reporting mechanism.
Peace,
KONG
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It's been ages. My memory wasn't all that good anyhoo. But weren't arena settings viewable?
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not online... unless you have bwana's...
offline, sure, but....
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So you think HT should COAD just to satisy one paranoid squad who play in the CT ?
If you ask me the squad needs a group supply of tranquilisers.
I should say i have no problems with any of them while flying, even the text bait when they dont like the way you engage them i just class as banter.
But come in here and its the same old, this is biased that is biased time and time again from the same people.
And no i do not think the FM is in anyway different between theatres.
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There is absolutely no flight model difference between the MA and the CT. None. Zip. Nada. I'm amazed that someone would even come to this conclusion since it's pretty obvious that they are the same.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Not only are they the same, but if you do as I suggested and go offline and fiddle with the settings you will see that nothing the CT staffers can change will effect it. The flight model, and its particular traits, are part of the executable program you download from HTC, and I am sure HT has a way to check that it has not been altered.
The "stall" setting only effects the stall limiter which you should have turned off anyway. If you do have the stall limiter on, yes, in that case the CT staff could[/b] change the way your plane handles, but I do not see why they would change that, and do not believe they have.
This fixation on conspiracies and tweeks of the flight model to disadvantage one side or the other is edging awfully close to delusional.
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Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
There is absolutely no flight model difference between the MA and the CT. None. Zip. Nada. I'm amazed that someone would even come to this conclusion since it's pretty obvious that they are the same.
-- Todd/Leviathn
Obvious to anyone who has a clue....but then again look at the source:D
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Originally posted by KONG1
One simple thing would settle or at least have prevented this argument….
TRANSPARENCY
Any and ALL configurable variables and their settings should be available to all players (# troops, downtimes, hardness, lethality, stall settings, whatever). Not to change, just to see. I don’t mean in the message of the day (that would subject the information to human fallibility). I mean a simple programmed reporting mechanism.
Peace,
KONG
They are available KONG. When you enter the arena (any of them or offline) go to "Setup" on the clipboard
then "Arena setup"
then "Envorinment"
then "Arena settings"
There you will find all of the available things that the CT staffers can change, and what the current settings are in the arena you are currently in. You can not change them unless you have been given CM privleges, but you can look at what each settings value is. You will also notice that nearly all settings are global, they dont target one country, and can not be made to do so even if the CT staff wanted to. Its all right there, you just have to look.
Seriously, I dont want this to come off as harsh, and this is not directed at KONG or anyone in particular, but if half the time that is spent cooking up conspiracy theories was spent making yourself a better pilot, your plane might handle better than it does now.
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Originally posted by KONG1
One simple thing would settle or at least have prevented this argument….
TRANSPARENCY
Any and ALL configurable variables and their settings should be available to all players (# troops, downtimes, hardness, lethality, stall settings, whatever). Not to change, just to see. I don’t mean in the message of the day (that would subject the information to human fallibility). I mean a simple programmed reporting mechanism.
Ever bothered to have a look at arena settings? Every player can view them. Now if that isn't a TRANSPARENCY, then I don't know what it is.
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Originally posted by 2bighorn
Ever bothered to have a look at arena settings? Every player can view them. Now if that isn't a TRANSPARENCY, then I don't know what it is.
Yes Iv looked at them many times but never really knew that was the real settings.
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Real default settings. Though I've never had reason to suspect (back when) that any of them could be deeked to pork an fm. Stall limiter crutch notwithstanding.
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TK, when you pull that page up offline, mess with them and you will quickly figure out what the ones do that are not obvious by their name, which most are. Then check them when you go online to see what they are set at.
In reality, most of the settings the CT staffers can manipulate are rather mundane, and with the exception of the stall limiter they have nothing to do with the performance of a plane and it is a global setting, its effects all countries equally. The ones like ammo lethality are also global, the only settings that are country specific are "allow flight" and such.
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Originally posted by Grits
TK, when you pull that page up offline, mess with them and you will quickly figure out what the ones do that are not obvious by their name, which most are. Then check them when you go online to see what they are set at.
In reality, most of the settings the CT staffers can manipulate are rather mundane, and with the exception of the stall limiter they have nothing to do with the performance of a plane and it is a global setting, its effects all countries equally. The ones like ammo lethality are also global, the only settings that are country specific are "allow flight" and such.
yea i know what everysingle button in the settings page does and yes i know that theres nothing that a CM can do to pork FM. grits member i was a CM for a while :aok :p
but iv looked at the settings a few times and never thought that they were the actuelle settings i thought that those were my settings from off line
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Ah, I see.
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:D
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Grits, Bov,
You guys are mistaken. The visible arena settings do not match what is setup. The object settings are not even visible. Go in the CT and look up how many troops to capture. Check out killshooter settings, ack lethality, fuel burn.
We have to depend on the MOTD and it has often been wrong or incomplete. I’m not suggesting malice just normal human fallibility. The code to display the settings already exists just needs a look no change level of access.
I’m NOT suggesting there is a ‘Let’s hose the axis’ slider. I’m just saying things are not as transparent as they could be and that does not engender trust. The average computer user has trust issues with all things computer related, the experienced user has more. The entire computer industry is rife with ‘secrets’. I remember the days when the BIOS code was printed in the back of the PC XT users manual. I also remember the first problems with Microsoft and their ‘undocumented’ procedure calls. Open source is probably the most trustworthy if (big if) you’re sure about the compilation. But I digress…
No slight intended, I’m just saying things are not as transparent as they could be.
Peace,
KONG
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Thanks for your reply eddiek.
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
There is absolutely no flight model difference between the MA and the CT. None. Zip. Nada. I'm amazed that someone would even come to this conclusion since it's pretty obvious that they are the same.
-- Todd/Leviathn
amazing that you can come to that conclusion given that;
1. you weren't on during the night in question.
2. it has already been established that certain staffers have regulate those settings.
as of Sunday the problem has gone away. so unless there is something wrong with my box that would cause squirrelly behavior in certain cartoon plane types. we have an issue and it should be addressed.
skuzzy has stated that HTC doesn't touch those settings and no one from the active CT staff has stepped forward to answer a simple question.
I have never stated that there was malicious intent on anyone's part and I don't think there are separate controls for "sides" I asked if there may have been a problem and if there was could someone please explain it.
if I perceive this problem again I will switch sides and try the other cartoons to see if they are also affected and at the risk of being treated with derision yet again I will post the question here one more time.
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amazing that you can come to that conclusion given that;
1. you weren't on during the night in question.
2. it has already been established that certain staffers have regulate those settings.
If you ask me its just a poor attempt to excuse and shroud your weak skills.
On a side note. The part of all this which I find the most "amazing" is that you are that stupid to keep posting on it all the while insisting that "someones changing and manipulating" the FM in the CT.
And after skuzzy all but told you to stfu in the nicest way possible or be gone from the BB.
The most obvious of observations of facts really on my part. But I thought I'd state them once again none the less, being that they are too enormous for you to grasp on your own.
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Originally posted by Morpheus
If you ask me its just a poor attempt to excuse and shroud your weak skills.
I didn't ask you as you or your opinion on any topic carry no weight with me. so as far as you are concerned this would fall under the heading of mind your own business.
you are dismissed
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"2. it has already been established that certain staffers have regulate those settings. "
Okay, you lost me here, storch.
Where did anyone establish that "certain staffers" regulated the settings, and by that I mean the stall limiter (which you can turn on or off yourself)?
Please refere to TrueKill's remark that is has been established that there is nothing staff members can do to pork, improve, or otherwise affect the FM in AH. Nothing, nada, zip..........
C'mon, storch, let this one go please.
Email HiTech or Pyro, don't bring this stuff to the BBS. Send them film of the behavior(s) you question and let them be the judge.
If I were a betting man, and I am not, I'd be looking at your controls, i.e. joystick, pedals, cables, etc....I was having weird problems, thought it was the something inside the game, turned out to be a rare spike in my joystick. Didn't happen often, not anywhere near a regular basis, just often enough to tick me off and make me wonder the same thing you are (just not out loud).
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Originally posted by storch
I didn't ask you as you or your opinion on any topic carry no weight with me. so as far as you are concerned this would fall under the heading of mind your own business.
you are dismissed
If I really didnt matter you would not have taken the time out of your life, moments that you'll never get back mind you, to reply to me.
I think you amongst others are a complete joke. And yes I know you care what I think so dont bother replying again saying you dont. Because we all know you do. If you didnt care about what I thought, what the rest of the player base thought about you, that little thread on the general discussion board would have never been started. You know... The one about "what do you guys think about the JG54?"
You're here to get your ego stroked and nothing more. As if those who entered the CT had something to answer to you about. As if HTC them selves had something to answer to you about. Once again, a joke.
The simple fact that you posted this crap on a public bulletin board makes it my business. It makes it everyones. And there in lies your ultimate mistake.
So don't come to me with the "I dont care what you think or have to say" line, because you and I both know that what I think about you matters.
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Originally posted by KONG1
Grits, Bov,
You guys are mistaken. The visible arena settings do not match what is setup. The object settings are not even visible. Go in the CT and look up how many troops to capture. Check out killshooter settings, ack lethality, fuel burn.
Whats that have to do with the FM?
2. it has already been established that certain staffers have regulate those settings.
Name them.
skuzzy has stated that HTC doesn't touch those settings and no one from the active CT staff has stepped forward to answer a simple question.
Oh really?
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Slash,
I didn't say anything about the FM, I said:
Originally posted by KONG1
One simple thing would settle or at least have prevented this argument….
TRANSPARENCY
Any and ALL configurable variables and their settings should be available to all players (# troops, downtimes, hardness, lethality, stall settings, whatever). Not to change, just to see. I don’t mean in the message of the day (that would subject the information to human fallibility). I mean a simple programmed reporting mechanism.
Peace,
KONG
Try This: http://www.readingcomprehensionconnection.com/
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Intresting reply. You people have been told time and again whats what but I need reading comprehension. What I do comprehend is it doesnt matter what anyone does. Your squad wont change.
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Maybe a little of this too:
http://www.betterwritingskills.com/
:aok
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Find a cure for cranial rectalitis. Share that with your buddies.:aok
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Tax deductable?
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If you didnt care about what I thought, what the rest of the player base thought about you, that little thread on the general discussion board would have never been started.
I started that thread after slash told me to go take a poll on what the community thinks of me and JG54. So I'm the one that cares, not Storchypoo... :aok
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ROTFLMAO!! kong:rofl :rofl