Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Golfer on April 24, 2005, 04:00:13 PM
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That he jumped from. Anybody know anything further...seems like real dumb and tragic thing to have happen. I've flown jumpers in a C-182 and a C-206...it's not a terribly easy task to beat them to the ground from a 10,000ft jump but by the time the season ended I was down fast enough I had to wait in order to let them get off the runway (read: yard).
I've read a few other posts about skydiving accidents on this board...hope it's nobody we know. The guy did manage to land after losing both legs at the knees...I have only three jumps and I think that's quite a feat.
DELAND, Fla. (April 24) - A man who was skydiving in central Florida struck the wing of a plane as he descended over an airport, losing both his legs in the accident. The man later died, officials said.
Albert Wing III hit the airplane that he jumped from Saturday morning, police Cmdr. Randel Henderson said. Police said the victim had opened his parachute when he struck the left wing at about 600 feet. His legs were severed at the knees, but he managed to land near an airport.
Wing was taken to a hospital, where he later died, Henderson said. The plane landed safely. DeLand is about 40 miles north of Orlando.
Fourteen other skydivers were in the air at the time of the accident, Federal Aviation Administration spokeswoman Holly Baker said. The FAA and National Transportation Safety Board were investigating.
Skydive DeLand, which organized the jump, said Saturday's accident was not common. The death was the second involving the company this year.
"There are about 15 million jumps every year,'' Mike Johnston, Skydive DeLand's general manager, told The Daytona Beach News-Journal. "I only know of one other case where a sky diver was struck by an airplane.''
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I think theres some foul-play here. Maybe the pilot was trying to scare him.
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Yeah right, a skydiver HITS a plane. More like the other way around. shrecking press.....
So sorry for Mr. Wing though...what a tragedy.
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I hate chutekillers.
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I should clarify...I titled this thread based on the news headlines. Hitting a skydiver if he's in freefall and you're just happening by flying VFR (Visual Flight Rules) not talking to ATC (which is not a requirement in most airspace) would be a very unfortunate accident. If you're flying the jump plane...your nuts ought be tied to two horses that run in different directions.
A skydiver doesn't just happen to hit a jump plane, and my assumption (based on only statements in the report) is that the parachute was already open and the pilot was trying to buzz the jumper. If he (the pilot) was landing and hit the jumper...that's just a mistake with no excuse. Again...nuts...horses.
I hope the DZ had a good insurance policy.
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Wing was over the runway...isn't that kind of reckless in itself?
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I've seen that jump operation in Deland...and I have flown at two other airports with jump operations. I have not been impressed with the safety at any of them.
It seems most jump planes, after pushing the screamers out, put the nose down and dive at the airport at about 60-80deg angle. The Deland operation follows this practice. I'm sure it is for cost savings...money is burning if the prop is turning. But it seems to me to fit the definition of aerobatic flight by FAR 91.303, which is prohibited without waiver over an active airport.
I personally have been put in a tight spot by a jump plane pilot diving in for a landing. I was just about to turn base when the jump plane, rushing to get on the ground with a straight in approach (at a steep pitch angle), refused to yield and go around to allow me to land. Normally, that would just mean making a long downwind and coming in behind him...but I was in a freaking GLIDER. We had some strong words afterwards since he put me and my passenger at risk.
I won't get into how many times jumpers have shot through the clouds that I was thermalling under :eek: ...also prohibited.
:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by crowMAW
I've seen that jump operation in Deland...and I have flown at two other airports with jump operations. I have not been impressed with the safety at any of them.
It seems most jump planes, after pushing the screamers out, put the nose down and dive at the airport at about 60-80deg angle. The Deland operation follows this practice. I'm sure it is for cost savings...money is burning if the prop is turning. But it seems to me to fit the definition of aerobatic flight by FAR 91.303, which is prohibited without waiver over an active airport.
I personally have been put in a tight spot by a jump plane pilot diving in for a landing. I was just about to turn base when the jump plane, rushing to get on the ground with a straight in approach (at a steep pitch angle), refused to yield and go around to allow me to land. Normally, that would just mean making a long base and coming in behind him...but I was in a freaking GLIDER. We had some strong words afterwards since he put me and my passenger at risk.
I won't get into how many times jumpers have shot through the clouds that I was thermalling under :eek: ...also prohibited.
:rolleyes:
I actually have of video of me, somewhere around here,in the right hand seat of a plane, can't remember which one, as we roll and dive back to Deland after a mass exit back in May of 1991. I wasn't expecting it at all and I started screaming something to the affect, "Stuka's at 3 o'clock low! I've got the lead!" and the rest of the video is me screaming all the way to the deck. I forgot I even had this video until this post. I have to go dig it out...
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Coming for landing once, I had a close call with a skydiver. His chute was open, yet it seemed he "poped out in front of me". I knew there were skydivers operating, so I was looking out for them.
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A picture of my instructor the only time I went skydiving.
(http://www.alexmusson.com/fandango/fandangopics/photos/ceraleater2_large.jpg)
And the school:
(http://www.alexmusson.com/fandango/fandangopics/photos/school1_large.jpg)
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Me getting ready to jump:
(http://www.alexmusson.com/fandango/fandangopics/photos/inplane7_large.jpg)
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Me getting ready to jump:
(http://www.alexmusson.com/fandango/fandangopics/photos/inplane7_large.jpg)
Good flick:)
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LOL!!!Great movie.
NO GO
"It says Go on!"
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This is the town I grew up in and i still live within 10 miles or so. I used to watch the skydivers and local private air traffic for hours at a time. I hung around at the jump site for hours talking with the pilots and the meeting the sightly insane types that like to jump out of perfectly good aircraft.
Having watched the operations its not a huge suprise that this happened. They fly a twin otter and some other single engine french aircraft(no idea the name) that some refer to as the vomitcomet. If I recall correctly the jumper was hit by the twin otter.
I always found it rather amusing that in order to make as much $$$ as possible the pilot would kick his jumpers out at around 15k or so and then go almost pure vertical to get back to the ground. It was a running joke that the plane would be on the ground loading up the next batch of jumpers before the last chute hit the ground.
I have also heard many many horror stories from Embry-Riddle pilots and students about the jumpers coming in right over the active runway while they were doing touch and goes.
So,it sucks to say it but this was bound to happen sooner or later.
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Press has got it wrong, he was NOT hit by the plane he had jumped from but by another one.
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It's one thing to get hit by the plane you dove from, but getting hit from a landing plane that possibly has no clue that skydivers are in the area..
Sad event indeed, but WTF do you jump from a plane in the first place?
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Originally posted by Hawklore
It's one thing to get hit by the plane you dove from, but getting hit from a landing plane that possibly has no clue that skydivers are in the area..
Sad event indeed, but WTF do you jump from a plane in the first place?
If this is the case (and it's almost as bad as if the jump plane had hit the jumper) then the airplane would have known the jumpers are in the area. The otter would make a number of radio calls including "jumpers away in 1 minute" and "jumpers out the door" on the Common Traffic Advisory Frequency (CTAF) which is the radio channel that the airport uses so all the aircraft can sort out their location and keep from trading paint.
I haven't seen any new reports that say it wasn't the jump plane...but that other pilot should/would/probably did know or at least it was broadcast that jumpers were out the door.
Certain things have right-of-way when it comes to flying and it goes down the line in terms of maneuverability.
Blimps and airplanes have to get out of the way of hot air balloons. Airplanes have to steer clear of blimps (airships). Since parachutists have no motor and are only going one way, which is down, then logic would dictate airplanes must give way to these less than perfectly sane folks.
If in fact it was not the jump plane, then most likely the following happened:
The jump plane made a radio call saying jumpers away in 60 seconds. Shame on the offending airplane for missing that call.
The jump plane made a second call stating jumpers out the door. Shame again on the offending airplane for missing that call.
Jump plane makes a radio call or two talking about entering the pattern (okay if you hear a guy call "Skydive 12345" and he's landing...the use of logic would say that there are jumpers coming down) Shame on the offending plane yet again for missing this radio call.
So the offending airplane has missed at least 3 radio calls, disregarded 3 radio calls or isn't looking for parachutes after hearing the 3 radio calls.
He then does not see the opened parachute(s) which are not difficult to see as often times they are quite gaily colored as well as the jumpers wearing quite easy to see jumpsuits. Shame on him for not being vigilant with "see and avoid" which is the responsiblity of all pilots to avoid conflicts and collisions when in visual flying conditions. Shame on him again.
There's an accident chain...if one link wasn't broken this would be a non-event. There is more to this story...but it's sad it happened.
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Golfer,
Nice story.
I have had 2 near mid airs with jump planes at my old home airfield. The problem was so bad the jump operator was told by the field manager that the plans for the airport did not require a jump operator. Then it settled down for a while. When I left it was almost back to the same crappy situation. With the jump planes doing a "death spiral" back to the field at the normal base to final turning point for the active runway from 11,000' down to just below pattern altitude while the pattern was populaterd with landing aircraft. It's nbot fun to be starting to turn to base and see a kingair pass you by from above and just to the side by less than 100' distance right next to you while it completes a diving turn to land. I have seen the inside of the flaps of that bird more than once while in the air. I didn't see him as he came from above and behid to overtake me well over my speed until he was alongside of me.
The jumpers are NOT just going in one direction. Granted darn few can go back up without a healthy updraft but they are flitting latteraly all over the damn field. The jump field was colocated on the airfield and had a landing point just to the NW of the intersection of the 2 runways. The jumpers opened chutes from 10,000' down to 2,000'. Not all were carefull about not flying over the pattern area, cross arrival point or over the center of the airfield. Remember arriving aircraft on a non towered airfield often cross the field and mid point of the main runway from a 90 degree course to enter the downwind pattern. They do so at or just above pattern altitude of about 800 to 1,000' AGL. Guess who else was in that same area? Yep, parachutists wanting to get a nice view of the field and final turning towards the landing zone. They weren't supposed to do it, they had no radio to hear you calls and didn't make any calls on thier own either. Some misjudged their altitude and actually landed on the freaking runway.
Most "chutists" didn't do this and they stayed to the NW of the field but there were always a few that did what they damn well pleased.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Me getting ready to jump:
(http://www.alexmusson.com/fandango/fandangopics/photos/inplane7_large.jpg)
When the laundry came out instead of the chute, I laughed til I was breathless, tears flowing. Loved the whole movie. Jeez, that was a long time ago, now.
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The last plane-jumper collision I read about involved a guy in free-fall hitting a private airplane. The dude's lower legs hit the tail and the tail was ripped off, killing the 2 occupants of the plane. The jumper survived with a badly broken ankle.
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Holden McJohnson is right..
Fandango was very funny. Loved the scene where they attempt to tie onto the passing train.
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Originally posted by deSelys
Press has got it wrong, he was NOT hit by the plane he had jumped from but by another one.
The press was right...the jumper and the jump-plane collided. There are pics of the damage at:
http://www.wnbc.com/slideshow/traffic/4412623/detail.html?qs=;s=1;p=traffic;dm=ss;w=320
(http://images.ibsys.com/2005/0425/4412595.jpg)
Here is the incident report from the FAA:
IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 24HV Make/Model: DHC6 Description: DHC-6 Twin Otter (UV-18, CC-138)
Date: 04/23/2005 Time: 1315
Event Type: Accident Highest Injury: Fatal Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: None
LOCATION
City: DELAND State: FL Country: US
DESCRIPTION
ACFT WHILE INFLIGHT DURING A SKYDIVING OPERATION, HIT A SKYDIVER IN MIDAIR
WHILE THE PARACHUTE WAS OPEN, THE SKYDIVER WAS FATALLY INJURED, DELAND, FL
INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 1
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 14 Fat: 1 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
WEATHER: METAR DAB 231253Z 21006KT 9SM FEW100 19/16 A2986
OTHER DATA
Departed: DELAND, FL Dep Date: Dep. Time:
Destination: DELAND, FL Flt Plan: NONE Wx Briefing: Y
Last Radio Cont: DAB APCH
Last Clearance: UNK
FAA FSDO: ORLANDO, FL (SO15) Entry date: 04/25/2005
[/b]
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It's still not clear CrowMAW: from the slide 3 of the link you posted:
Witnesses said he slammed into an airplane after skydiving from a different plane over Volusia County Saturday morning.
From the FAA report:
Damage: None
From what I've read, he was hit by another jump plane.
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thats the problem, they were all fat people..
:p
What do those abbrevations stand for?
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Pass: passenger
Fat: fatal
Ser: serious
Min: minor
Unk: unknown
...
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Dunno,
In my short career of 6 jumps, the last thing I was worried about was the jump plane. I almost hit: power lines, a stone wall, a sheep stile, a road and finally I successfully hit: a big pile of sheep-poo after landing in a pasture instead of the nearby DZ. They made me walk back from that one instead of letting me in the "recovery vehicle."
Occurs to me that winds, jumper experience, and how steerable his chute was would have played a big role. Still 2 fatal accidents in one year isn't exactly an enviable record for a skydiving operation.
- SEAGOON