Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Jackal1 on April 25, 2005, 08:24:16 AM
-
For the U.S. citizen who practiced buying Made In The U.S.A. products as a practice, I have a couple of questions.
Do you still try to follow this practice?
How difficult do you find it to do in today`s state of affairs?
-
Bit difficult when you're dealing with a global economy......
-
Yes
Very difficult.
shamus
-
no, it is not difficult with just a bit of effort- and it's important.... although in some areas we have no choice due to availibility.
(Did you know John Deere tractors are made in Japan and Kubota tractors are made in America? Freaky, huh?)
-
In MANY areas we have no choice.
shamus
-
Most products have components from all over the world don't they? Take Harley Davidson. The all American motorcycle has Japanese carbs, brakes etc. Same for Triumph that made in England logo doesn't apply to the Jap German and Italian parts? And the same is true all over.
Maybe we should buy products that are assembled in our respective countries. My Girlfreinds Nissan provides plenty of work for people in Sunderland, My Triumph is put together in Hinkley, etc etc.
Nothing wrong with being patriotic just got to be realistic too. The world is one big place now!.
-
Originally posted by Shamus
In MANY areas we have no choice.
shamus
Really. I'm buying a piece of equipment and I have a choice between Heidelberg of Germany and Hamada of Japan- there's nothing comperable that's Made in America.
-
Originally posted by Airhead
Really. I'm buying a piece of equipment and I have a choice between Heidelberg of Germany and Hamada of Japan- there's nothing comperable that's Made in America.
Well you lost me here, would seem to be making my point.
shamus
-
I'm siting the exception that proves the rule. Most areas we can find Made in America products with little effort- my 2003 Taurus is MMA, my Sea Ray, my pick-up, my firearms, even my underwear is MMA. (Haines is Union BTW)
Other areas, such as TVs and CD players, it's tougher cause American Made is so much more expensive, but if you make half an effort you'll find Made in America goods are out there, it takes a bit of effort to find them is all.
-
Originally posted by Airhead
I'm siting the exception that proves the rule.
Expect exception don't prove a rule, they disprove it. :confused:
-
My Honda Accord was American made with 93% American parts.
I am working on building a model railroad and it is almost impossible to find stuff made in the US. DPM is the exception. http://www.dpmkits.com/
-
I use to but just gave up.. Some things are made here but if you look at the parts that are made for a given product you'll find the 20% is not made here.
Fit & Finish.. I think the Japanese have a highter Quality control still over us here in the US.
-
Originally posted by Shamus
In MANY areas we have no choice.
shamus
I suggest carpet bombing and then we can establish proper democracy....
Then you will have choice my lill son
:rofl
-
Originally posted by Jackal1
For the U.S. citizen who practiced buying Made In The U.S.A. products as a practice, I have a couple of questions.
Do you still try to follow this practice?
How difficult do you find it to do in today`s state of affairs?
Do you count "Made in USA, Assembled in Malaysia" as well ? :D
-
I have heard some folks talk almost rabidly about this subject especially when supporting Union activites. (seen quite a few bumper stickers as well). It's really silly to me in some respects as those "American made" products came with foriegn maufacturer tags. Example 2 of my former vehicles, a Dodge PU with a made in Canada sticker (and metric fitttings) as well as a Ford PU labled "hecho en Mexico".
As a consumer I purchase based on my needs and sometimes on my political considerations. I support who I wish with my purchasing power and that includes American products as well. I want the best value for my dollar and will buy from those who provide it. If the company is active in areas I am not in agreement with, I buy from a competitor. My choice and I exercise it.
-
Originally posted by Airhead
Other areas, such as TVs and CD players, it's tougher cause American Made is so much more expensive, but if you make half an effort you'll find Made in America goods are out there, it takes a bit of effort to find them is all.
Is that not the point though...the whole idea about buying American Made is about supporting your own economy (which includes the unions). Does the principal of buying American Made only apply to the less expensive items? Part of the problem as I see it is that the Unions have done great things for the workers but this has resulted in higher cost to the consumer, which means the consumer has to buy imported products as they are cheaper and more affordable. I know that this is a over simplified statement and that the issues are much more complex. I guess the point I am making is if you take a stand on an issue, such as buying American Made, then you need to stand by it even if it cost's a little (or a lot) more.
-
Originally posted by lada
Do you count "Made in USA, Assembled in Malaysia" as well ? :D
Not until we take it and the annexation is complete. :D
-
Originally posted by Skydancer
Take Harley Davidson. The all American motorcycle has Japanese carbs, brakes etc.
Easy to cure and usualy is.
-
"I guess the point I am making is if you take a stand on an issue, such as buying American Made, then you need to stand by it even if it cost's a little (or a lot) more."
Yep same is true here in Blighty if you want to buy British made. We got one less product to buy now that Rover MG has gone!
-
Ah but Jackal those Harleys stop and run good now! In the bad old days of American brakes you'd be through the back of the car in front amd out the other side before they bit! Buells are great though, I'd buy American if it handled and went ok. I fear another "choppers are the only valid bike argument" starting:lol :lol
-
Originally posted by lada
I suggest carpet bombing and then we can establish proper democracy....
Then you will have choice my lill son
:rofl
Ya the Marshall Plan kinda backfired on us :)
shamus
-
Made in China is better.
-
Well guys i dont know what to say....
Does it realy matter ... coz some of those chinese companies as well as some of emrekan are owned by little green men from Norway.....
IMO its pointless to think about it. You should be rather interesting whos the owner of the company and not where is the factory located.
-
Well wer'll find out when the Chinese asset strippers start trying to build Rover 75s!
How dumb are managers in this country sometimes? I honestly wonder why we just don't put up a big for sale sign.:rolleyes:
-
I buy what works best for me. Too many times I bought made in the USA only to find it was crap. Having said that, most of my purchases are manufactured in the USA and Asia. Rarely do I buy any goods made in Europe or Africa.
Americans have a strong heritage for manufacturing. If we cannot compete fairly by producing superior products at a competative price then we deserve to fail in the global marketplace.
-
I try to avoid union made and especially USA union made products whenever I can.
It's very easy to do, on both counts.
-
I dunno... any manufacturer that has a unionized workforce probably deserves it.
-
Originally posted by Sandman
I dunno... any manufacturer that has a unionized workforce probably deserves it.
This kind of reminds me of the hourly vs salary fights that prevailed in the US auto companies back in the 70's-80's.
The white collar type's smugly proclaming that the blue collar type's should compete on a global basis never figuring that their engineering, marketing, design etc. prowess could be matched by pro's in other countries.
Now I have been self employed for over 30 years and get paid for what I produce, so I have no ax to grind.
When the public employees in the US are willing to accept compensation packages on par with their brethren in the countries that produce the products/services that they so warmly embrace I will take their comments with less than a grain of salt.
shamus
-
In the bad old days of American brakes you'd be through the back of the car in front amd out the other side before they bit!
Really? How many Harleys did you ride in the bad old days through the back of a car? How many?
-
quality and price first
"made in" is second, if at all
-
Originally posted by Sandman
I dunno... any manufacturer that has a unionized workforce probably deserves it.
Yep. They deserve it because are too lazy to pack up and ship the factory elsewhere. Heck even moving production to the Southern US could get rid of many union troubles, let alone outsourcing to favorable environmenbts like China or Mexico.
And considering that US Union membership and power are down to ridiculously low levels and has been in a freefall for decades, the unions get what they deserved too.
:D
-
I dunno... Look around. How many corporations are in it for the long haul? It seems that the vast majority care about one thing, making the shareholders insanely wealthy. The workforce today is considered disposable.
It's different for us than earlier generations. Back in the day, a successful company was loyal to its employees and vice versa. Now, you better be looking out for yourself, because no one else is.
Now... as to the idea of moving manufacturing work to other countries, it's amazingly shortsighted. Sure, it might be good for the company's profit margin on the short term, but if company A farms out all their work to Mexico, who is going to have any money to buy anything from company B? One company's worker is another's consumer.
-
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Yep. They deserve it because are too lazy to pack up and ship the factory elsewhere. Heck even moving production to the Southern US could get rid of many union troubles, let alone outsourcing to favorable environmenbts like China or Mexico.
And considering that US Union membership and power are down to ridiculously low levels and has been in a freefall for decades, the unions get what they deserved too.
:D
Not all manufactured goods can be economically produced in another Country.
nanner nanner!
:cool:
-
Originally posted by Airhead
no, it is not difficult with just a bit of effort- and it's important.... although in some areas we have no choice due to availibility.
(Did you know John Deere tractors are made in Japan and Kubota tractors are made in America? Freaky, huh?)
is that a fact? we are in the market for a new tractor and I was amazed to learn this. We are currently running Japanese manufactured 1978 Kubota L245s and are quite pleased with them. We now find ourselves needing a little more HP for some of the posting in the heavier oolite and limstone out west. we were considering the Kubota L3400 or the Deere 3520 we are leaning to the Deere because of the Yanmar diesel.
anyone with an opinion on these machines?
-
Storch I thought you ran a machine shop or welding shop? Or is this for personal use?
-
Originally posted by Shamus
This kind of reminds me of the hourly vs salary fights that prevailed in the US auto companies back in the 70's-80's.
The white collar type's smugly proclaming that the blue collar type's should compete on a global basis never figuring that their engineering, marketing, design etc. prowess could be matched by pro's in other countries.
Now I have been self employed for over 30 years and get paid for what I produce, so I have no ax to grind.
When the public employees in the US are willing to accept compensation packages on par with their brethren in the countries that produce the products/services that they so warmly embrace I will take their comments with less than a grain of salt.
shamus
Shamus,
Just curious, what kind of business do you have.
-
Originally posted by Skydancer
Ah but Jackal those Harleys stop and run good now! In the bad old days of American brakes you'd be through the back of the car in front amd out the other side before they bit! Buells are great though
I never had a prob stopping a Harley. Where do you come up with this info you throw around?
Buells are station wagons on two wheels. I can see why you would like them.
I`m also sort of curious when you became a U.S. citizen.
-
John Deere construction equipment is made in Dubuque Iowa... which I guess is a suburb of Tokyo.
-
I'm not really into cars but I love my Jeep and I wouldn't own anything else especially a Jap four wheel drive. Every nut,bolt and accessory on it is made in USA.
Of couse bikes is another matter. :)
...-Gixer
-
I rode a mates sportster back around 92. It was a bendy wobbly vibrating piece of junk that didn't stop until the lever was right back against the bar. Nowadays I hear they are better. As for a Buel being a station wagon you need new glasses. What the hell do you call the Fatboy or the electra glide then ? Yank tanks we call em.
Jackal you started a thread about buying American products if you are American. the principal is just as applicable if you are German, French, British whatever nationality. Do you buy your own nations product? If you don't want to listen to people outside your own land, fine don't listen. But don't expect us not to participate on a BBs for a game that is available on the net all over the world that we pay money to be part of.
Interestingly when I went to Sturgis in 98 I thought guys would think my triumph was junk. Some did but others appreciated the fact that a Brit would buy a British product. Its horses for courses as they say over here.
-
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Storch I thought you ran a machine shop or welding shop? Or is this for personal use?
It's a welding shop with some ability to turn our own parts (we have an old lathe and if pressed one of the guys knows how to use it). we manufacture decorative gates and install access control devices. some gates require posts as opposed to columns. some jobs also involve decorative fences and sometimes we land fencing jobs. we need a tractor to drive an auger in order to set the hinge posts or other posts.
-
Ok, I see, you do the installtion too. Thanks.
-
Originally posted by Maverick
Shamus,
Just curious, what kind of business do you have.
Maverick,
Investigative..if it matters.
shamus
-
Its pretty tough to just "buy American"
Toyota builds more cars in the US then it does in Japan. They have 4 plants and are building a 5th ( I think). The CEO of Toyota recently called his company an American car company.
-
Same here with Nissan!
The most efficient plant in Europe so I heard on the radio the other day!
-
Originally posted by midnight Target
John Deere construction equipment is made in Dubuque Iowa... which I guess is a suburb of Tokyo.
Thier equipment is also manufactured in nine different Nations and imported here. I read the Pres's comments on globalization- it was a good read.
-
Skydancer,
Jackal never went fast enough to have to use brakes.:p
-
Originally posted by Skydancer
Interestingly when I went to Sturgis in 98 I thought guys would think my triumph was junk.
Zulu, thought you said you went in a Chrysler. :D
-
I rode a mates sportster back around 92.
So you rode one bike once and that makes you an expert on the manufacturer?
-
I rode a mates sportster back around 92. It was a bendy wobbly vibrating piece of junk that didn't stop until the lever was right back against the bar.
In the bad old days of American brakes you'd be through the back of the car in front amd out the other side before they bit!
huh?,sence it was a old harley and didnt have jap parts that it was junk?..,,if it wasnt a 1945 harley and below..it had jap parts on it..harley has been using jap parts on there bikes sence 1946 i believe..including breaks..so you saying old jap breaks are junk?,,lol
any bike. jap..british..american..all will be junk if not took care of.. i had a 1976 iron head sporty..never had a proublem stopping..very touchy breaks stopped on a dime...if you dont adjust any break system specialy a old one..sure it will feal sloppy...had a honda 125 that couldnt stop with out pushing the bar to the ground,,i adjusted the cable,,sure anuff..fixed it right up..lol i cant tell much diffrence between new disk breaks on a bike and old drums..they all lock up really easy
you cant knock around harley to much..they are the best selling bikes on the planet..and hold there value and gain like no other production bike..they are very easy to find after market parts for any year..try to find aftermarket jap or british parts for anything older..like pulling teeth..specialy triumph or bsa...hell i cant even find a piston ring for my 1987 huskavarna 400...harley is good on keeping even there older bikes on the road
-
i love my Chevy Impala
-
Originally posted by hyena426
huh?,sence it was a old harley and didnt have jap parts that it was junk?..,,if it wasnt a 1945 harley and below..it had jap parts on it..harley has been using jap parts on there bikes sence 1946 i believe..including breaks..so you saying old jap breaks are junk?,,lol
any bike. jap..british..american..all will be junk if not took care of.. i had a 1976 iron head sporty..never had a proublem stopping..very touchy breaks stopped on a dime...if you dont adjust any break system specialy a old one..sure it will feal sloppy...had a honda 125 that couldnt stop with out pushing the bar to the ground,,i adjusted the cable,,sure anuff..fixed it right up..lol i cant tell much diffrence between new disk breaks on a bike and old drums..they all lock up really easy
you cant knock around harley to much..they are the best selling bikes on the planet..and hold there value and gain like no other production bike..they are very easy to find after market parts for any year..try to find aftermarket jap or british parts for anything older..like pulling teeth..specialy triumph or bsa...hell i cant even find a piston ring for my 1987 huskavarna 400...harley is good on keeping even there older bikes on the road
Hehe.
Please don`t be offensive to the professor of everything U.S.
After all he DID ride a Sporter in the `90s and he HAS driven a Chrysler.
:rofl
-
it is very difficult, especially when you consider that the made in the U.S.A lable applied as a sticker, may only mean that the sticker was made in the U.S.A
One act of nationalization from sinking. As long as they still need our extra food, we are still afloat. When they don't...I don't want to think about it.
-
All one has to is add a single wire, say to a TV, and a label 'Made in ??' can be attached even though the rest of the TV was made offshore.
-
As far the Harley thing is concerned, I'm not shure how good their bikes are today, but I used to live near Sturgis SD, and every year there were people that would make living picking up broken down Harleys. It was a race between theives and mechanics then, with mechanics going out in trucks to pick up the bikers and their ride, and the theives that would travel in pairs. The first guy in a car would spot the guy with his broken hog and call his friend in a truck, that was about mile behind. Then the guy in his car would offer the biker a ride to town, and if he fell for it, in comes the guy in a truck to pick up the bike. Most Harleys were art, not transportation. The guys that understood this always had a toolbox with them for extended travel.
-
"try to find aftermarket jap or british parts for anything older..like pulling teeth..specialy triumph or bsa"
I guess Hyena that they are easier to get hold of here. I live in Birmingham where most of the motorcycle industry here was located. So there are still loads opf people with parts, many still origional and if not plenty of manufacturers who will make parts. My new triumph is made about twenty miles up the road and the great thing is that when I've hit a snag working on her I can call the factory direct and get advice. Can't phone Japan or milwaukee so easily!
Steve, nope I'm not an expert but I do have opinion if thats ok pal? So do you ride then?
Jackal thanks for elevating me to the status of professor. When do I get my PHD? My experience of Yank stuff was not good, though as you may have read I think Harleys are getting better. Plus as I recall Buells are assembled in the US. It says American motorcycle on the tank, and I think they are pretty good.
Do you think that as a Brit I shouldn't be buying a Brit product then? It would not be very patriotic of me to buy a yank tank ;) would it? Suprised you don't understand that one as you seem to be Mr all american and patriotic to the core!
-
Steve, nope I'm not an expert but I do have opinion if thats ok pal? So do you ride then?
It's ok now. Now that we know you rode one bike once and really don't know what you're talking about.
-
So do you ride then?
If not what the hell gives you the right to decide what I do and don't know!:rolleyes: Sheesh:lol
-
I have a T-shirt that is "made in america" and it still looks great after about 10 years. I also have a few products thats "designed in california, made in china".. also great quality.
My IBM Thinkpad is also designed in america i belive but i think its buildt in Ireland.
Rest of my stuff is european and asian.
-
Originally posted by Nilsen
My IBM Thinkpad is also designed in america i belive but i think its buildt in Ireland.
The parts are probably from all over the world... south korea, taiwan, china...
-
Originally posted by Fishu
The parts are probably from all over the world... south korea, taiwan, china...
Yes
-
Originally posted by Fishu
The parts are probably from all over the world... south korea, taiwan, china...
Yes, and now that part of IBM is owned by a Chinese company, but it was not when i bought it.
-
Originally posted by Skydancer
[B
Jackal thanks for elevating me to the status of professor. When do I get my PHD? [/B]
OH you have allready been awarded the PHD. I just don`t think the initials would stand for what you think. :D
My experience of Yank stuff was not good, though as you may have read I think Harleys are getting better.
I`ll notify Willie G. I know he will be relieved and can get some piece of mind now. :D
Do you think that as a Brit I shouldn't be buying a Brit product then?
Oh I think they fit you to a T. :D
It would not be very patriotic of me to buy a yank tank ;) would it? Suprised you don't understand that one as you seem to be Mr all american and patriotic to the core!
Judging from your intillectual posts I believe referring to yourself and patriotic in the same sentence is the true definition of irony.
...........And yes I am an American patriot to the fuggin bone. That really eats at ya don`t it slick? :D
It`s a shame you have to view it from afar and your jealousy of our great nation seems to eat at your very soul.
Also sort of a shame you seem to stay in such a bitter turmoil about the country in which you reside, but then on the other hand I don`t believe you would be quite suited or content anywhere.
God bless America and for all that she stands for.
-
Jealous !!!!:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
You got to be kidding me!
Isn't it more patriotic to want your country's govt to make its own choices rather than have your leaders head up GW's bellybutton and get dragged into someone else's war!
Jackal any chance you could ask all the American patriots to stay in the country they love so much!;) ;)
Oh and I bow to your intellectual superiority!:rolleyes: :rofl :rofl
-
Originally posted by Skydancer
Oh and I bow to your intellectual superiority!
Graciously accepted although I imagine that is quite common in your case.
-
Do they still sell Harleys with made in Japan forks?
-
:rolleyes: :rofl :rofl
Jackal you kill me!:rofl
-
Sometimes it`s just too easy. :D
-
Originally posted by SirLoin
Do they still sell Harleys with made in Japan forks?
If "Springer" is best fork Harley has done itself then it might be good idea to use Italian and Japanese parts and also use German engineers for creating engine.
Did You know V-Rod's engine is designed by Porsche?
Something H-D doesn't shout out too loudly... Wonder why :D
-
Anyways parts from Showa (forks), Keihin(carbs) and Brembo (brakes) are best you can find so it's actually good thing HD uses them. Nothing wrong if you want to use good parts and not just mediocre :)
Brembo: http://www.brembo.com/ENG/AboutBrembo/PressRoom/Harley-Davidson.htm
Friends HD's:
http://www.kolumbus.fi/staga/klubi/iskin_sportster.jpg
http://www.kolumbus.fi/staga/klubi/hd_wla.jpg
I think WLA aren't having many German, Italian or Japanese parts... Sporty has plenty of them.