Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: Guppy35 on April 25, 2005, 12:43:14 PM
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Being a history nut, I keep looking at the CT in the hopes it might get to a point where it's a more viable option.
But then I think about what a newbie looking around these boards might see if he decided to try and get an impression of the CT from the CT posts.
And it occurs to me, the impression wouldn't be a good one.
Now I know folks like Oldman are CT regulars, and I know what a class act he is.
Yet if you were to use the CT forum as an indication, you'd come away with the idea that the CT is nothing more then a mini MA with folks wanting it their way, or they're gonna take there ball and go home etc etc.
One of the advantages of the CT should be that it has a core of players in a position of leadership in it's direction.
Yet, some of the more visible folks, and I'll admit it, Storch is one, are coming across in a less then inspiring fashion as of late. As he represents a squad as well, it doesn't help that some of his squaddies have also come across poorly as of late.
Storch, your heart may be in the right place, but your presentation has been lousy lately.
Bottom line from my view anyway, is the CT has an image problem that has only been hurt lately with the back biting and sniping.
My suggestion is that the CT development guys come up with a direction soonest, with part of that being a common goal to present themselves as a place where the maturity level has risen to a level above the MA not below it.
I for one, would happily move into a more historically minded arena and get myself clobbered over and over, by more veteran pilots, if I knew it was a place where the caliber of human being was higher.
But right now, it's no different then the MA and I can sure find more targets, and get clobbered just as well in the MA.
Dan/CorkyJr
Just looking for a reason to move
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What would really be nice is if the CT had no scores, no kill messages, and no ch 1 that includes ch200. Some ppl say take out GVs I say thats kinda dumb cuz last time i looked there were GVs in WW2. Another thing that would be cool is no dar. That means no enemy nor friendly. Some thing else would be front line bases have no heavy bombers. Those are just a few things that I think would make the CT alittle more fun.
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Guppy... just shut up and fly. A newbie is going to to get their impressions in the areana not on these boards... you have to be in game before you ever learn of these boards.
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Gee, I wonder where they get their impressions from...........
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I kinda have to side with VWE I played this game for like a year and a half before I heard about this BBS.
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sorry vwe, you're simply wrong in that statement. you're also forgetting many MA people might read the boards before entering the CT.
as i view it, your squad (in general and a few individuals in particular) has simply become rank-obsessed for whatever reason.
i also understand how defensive and snippity you guys are becoming with the bashing you've been taking, but... step back and look at the overall picture of why this may be occurring.
I still maintain JG54 would be a mediocre MA/events squad at best. ;)
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SA2, every time you get a couple of kills tonight I'll be there to take em away from you... just like any other night you venture into the CT. :D
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wow, such a friendly group to boot!
makes one wonder why some would want the association
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ok stfu about that scorepotato crap im tired of it jsut cuz we have good ranks dont mean we are scorewhoring.
Top 10 ppl in the CT I guess thos other 5 non JG54ers are scorepotatos if we are huh.
TrueKill
BigMax
N7
VWE001
jamusta
storch
joedog
Eagler
KONG
sehob
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Eagler, the boards are the boards and the areana is the areana... do I ever not clear your six or ask before engaging a contact when your flying on our side? Too many people in here can't seem to recognise tongue in cheek when they read it, guess they can't hear my tone of voice in text.
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with apologies to Jeff Foxworthy...
when you're out there hitting objects with a pt boat... you might be a scorepotato.
when you're out there capturing bases.... you might be a scorepotato.
when you horde, base hug and land only 1-2 kills a sortie... you might be a scorepotato.
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exactly vwe
to many, it comes across just wrong and I believe hurts the CT
most ppl are happy in MA, flying and dying. They need a reason/excuse to try CT out. Last thing they want is the nasty taste this board is putting in their mouth before they even try it out
tk
it takes nothing to score in the top ten in CT, I am proof of that.
btw, you notice Eskimo's score? He is waiting his time to shoot into #1 b4 month's end and grab it for the tour. :)
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Originally posted by Shane
with apologies to Jeff Foxworthy...
when you're out there hitting objects with a pt boat... you might be a scorepotato.
when you're out there capturing bases.... you might be a scorepotato.
when you horde, base hug and land only 1-2 kills a sortie... you might be a scorepotato.
I only drive PTs in the PAC setup to hit fleets.
I take bases so we can have a different place to fight.
Yes I horde another way of puting it is I fly with my squad but you would know anything about that would you. And no when im outa ammo and/or gas landing is faster the taxing to the rearm pad and waiting 30secs. So I land and get back to the fight faster. Does wanting to get back in the air to go fight make me a score potato? Cuz if so thats the only thing that makes me a scorepotato and that would make most the ppl in AH scorepotatos. So why dont you shut up and go find someone else to call something that thier not.
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I still maintain JG54 would be a mediocre MA/events squad at best
wow...you sure woke up in a good mood...much higher mark then I'd give em:)...but then again we never do see them in the SA do we....cant bring the training wheels along I guess.
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Originally posted by VWE
Guppy... just shut up and fly. A newbie is going to to get their impressions in the areana not on these boards... you have to be in game before you ever learn of these boards.
I rest my case
Dan/CorkyJr
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Originally posted by VWE
Eagler, the boards are the boards and the areana is the areana...
This is where I disagree with you. The arena and the boards are not separable. The CT encompasses both the arena and these boards, and impressions left here filter into there. Not everyone reads the boards, but those who do share what they see here with their friends who don't.
-- Todd/Leviathn
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Originally posted by humble
I still maintain JG54 would be a mediocre MA/events squad at best
wow...you sure woke up in a good mood...much higher mark then I'd give em:)...but then again we never do see them in the SA do we....cant bring the training wheels along I guess.
I sometimes fly with my MA squad in the SEA FSO but dont know about anyone else. BTW last time I was there i didnt see you.
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btw i now have more respect for levi and morph cuz instead of doing what shane and humble are doing and talking crap they came into the CT and i had some great fights with em.
and levi is a cheating little bastage how he flys that 38:aok :p
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Congratulations!
This is the 1,000th thread to be hijacked and turned into a JG54 bashing thread.
Guppy, I know that's not what you intended but here we are.
Everyone take a drink.
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wooooooot #1000 man everyone loves us
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Someone say they was buying drinks? =0)
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yea u are:aok
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Originally posted by Arlo
Someone say they was buying drinks? =0)
See me about picking up your coupon for 100 'plank-funbucks'. Spendable at all participating locations.
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Originally posted by TrueKill
I sometimes fly with my MA squad in the SEA FSO but dont know about anyone else. BTW last time I was there i didnt see you.
I fly with the AK's everytime I can make it on Fridays....I've never seen anyone from your squad there...suprised you guys dont fly as a squad in the SEA.
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Originally posted by TrueKill
What would really be nice is if the CT had no scores, no kill messages, and no ch 1 that includes ch200. Some ppl say take out GVs I say thats kinda dumb cuz last time i looked there were GVs in WW2. Another thing that would be cool is no dar. That means no enemy nor friendly. Some thing else would be front line bases have no heavy bombers. Those are just a few things that I think would make the CT alittle more fun.
they have this already...
just load up a CT-related terrain offline and tweak things to your little heart's content.
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Originally posted by Shane
they have this already...
just load up a CT-related terrain offline and tweak things to your little heart's content.
hey shane anyone ever tell you that you are just plan retarded?
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plan?!? i don't need no steekin' plan!!
you ever consider playing a stand alone box sim? that's pretty much what you described.
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oh no some one call the cops i missed the I in plain
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He asked for some ideas and I gave em some so shane why dont you shut your mouth and let the ppl that fly the CT talk.
Oh and BTW most of those ideas that I said most ppl already said theyed like to see em to some Im not the only one.
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Originally posted by TrueKill
oh no some one call the cops i missed the I in plain
oh, and here it was because *I* know that you JG54's aren't capable of using *I* - you castrati are more a "we" type.
:aok
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Originally posted by TrueKill
What would really be nice is if the CT had no scores, no kill messages, and no ch 1 that includes ch200. Some ppl say take out GVs I say thats kinda dumb cuz last time i looked there were GVs in WW2. Another thing that would be cool is no dar. That means no enemy nor friendly. Some thing else would be front line bases have no heavy bombers. Those are just a few things that I think would make the CT alittle more fun.
no scores - scores for those who care about them. No one forces you to look at scores - or to fly for them.
no kill msgs - /.squelch 6
no ch1/200 /.squlech 1 don't tune 200
no gv's - not enough CT population for GV's to really come into play. not that taking them out would be of any benefit, either.
no dar - that's *one* of the biggest complaints of those who came into CT way back when, reduced dar/no dar making fights impossible to find. no dar is a scorepotatos wet dream.
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Originally posted by TrueKill
He asked for some ideas and I gave em some so shane why dont you shut your mouth and let the ppl that fly the CT talk.
who did? i don't see anyone asking for ideas. ideals maybe, but not ideas. If you're referring to Guppy's little underscript, he was looking for reasons to make the move to CT. Have you given him any?
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I for one, would happily move into a more historically minded arena and get myself clobbered over and over, by more veteran pilots, if I knew it was a place where the caliber of human being was higher
did u read that i was giving him some ideas
u know what im ganna go do some thing u dont do and fly the CT
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Originally posted by TrueKill
I for one, would happily move into a more historically minded arena and get myself clobbered over and over, by more veteran pilots, if I knew it was a place where the caliber of human being was higher
did u read that i was giving him some ideas
u know what im ganna go do some thing u dont do and fly the CT
did you comprehend what he said?
the CT is already "more historically minded" than the MA.
but the important part you missed was "if I knew it was a place where the caliber of human being was higher." can you see how this little tidbit relates to both what he sees in the CT and on the forum?
of course, you may want to ask guppy what he meant by "higher caliber."
and ironically enough, none of you can pin this perception on me since i haven't even been in CT in months. I'm gonna go and do something you don't... fly MA... and fly it well.
I may pop in the CT tho' just to remind you my boot on your neck is a mere click away.
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Originally posted by TrueKill
btw i now have more respect for levi and morph cuz instead of doing what shane and humble are doing and talking crap they came into the CT and i had some great fights with em.
and levi is a cheating little bastage how he flys that 38:aok :p
The only time I've seen the CT with enough folks to make it worth considering was the one time I was logging from the DA one sunday. If the numbers are there I've got no problem poking my head in...
As for fights....well I'm not gonna put myself in same sentence with Levi,morph & shane...however...it amazed me that you and kong studiously avoided me in the DA...along with a bunch of others like hemp redd etc (again guys who clean my clock as well).
The one encounter we did have I let you go once (did ding you however so you might have had a wounded bird) and then gave you my long 6 since it was an FFA situation. Not even planes and not a "square" setup but honestly you didnt show me much...and you didnt come back either. On the other hand I know people whos opinion I respect who think your a good stick.
Bottom line to me is really simple, I like a good fight and I'll fly where I can find it. The outcome is less important to me then the experience....I was getting the snot knocked out of me by -HR- rocketman and BigT long before you knew what a flight sim was...and I've paddled the back side of snot nosed little kids like Oopsey...to see em come back as killing machines like shane.
There was a guy named Brook in AW (no clue if he still plays) who summed guys like me up very nicely "below the gods but above the unwashed masses".
Why should I fly the CT when I get better (and fairer) fights in the DA?
As for "bashing" the CT...well truthfully it tends to deserve it over the last 18 months. And I've only started a couple of threads "bashing" the CT. But just take an objective look and you'll see the same issues are repeatedly brought up by numerous people...not just 1 or 2.
I'm not "anti JG54"....I'm anti squad in the CT. Simply no place or reason for them IMO. Historically the only squad I've called out by name is the checkersnails....who I feel started the whole problem. Originally you guys simply countered that bunch of.....
Now instead of being in balance...you've created a further imbalance IMO. You want me in the CT....no problem. But the truth is I havent had a good fight there in over a year. Be happy to fly at least 1 hop everytime I log in the CT....but if its 1 on the mob...why should I???
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Originally posted by TrueKill
I for one, would happily move into a more historically minded arena and get myself clobbered over and over, by more veteran pilots, if I knew it was a place where the caliber of human being was higher
did u read that i was giving him some ideas
u know what im ganna go do some thing u dont do and fly the CT
Wasn't looking for ideas, so much as suggesting, not cleary enough, I'm afraid, that the CT leadership and core pilots need to consider how they present themselves as a group.
A clear definition/direction for the CT, combined with a player base that, for lack of a better way of saying it, displays a maturity/style that is different/better then the MA, would go a long ways towards drawing in some of us folks who grow weary of the land grab, "my computer is bigger then your computer", "you hacked, cheated, its HTC's flight model being wrong, so that you got the kill" crowd.
Dan/CorkyJr
The long winded one
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i keep telling oldman over and over, subtlety *doesn't* work.
:aok
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Thinking about it some more. What I'd think you'd want in the CT is a place where you know the guys you are going to fly against are gonna be good.....and they're gonna have class as well.
You know you'll learn something every fight, and that afterwards that guy who clobbered you will probably say good fight, or be willing to talk about what happened and how he got the shot. That is how people keep learning and keep wanting to come back for more, even if they are getting clobbered.
Funny part is that this is happening more and more lately in the MA and it's fun that way.
But if the image of the CT is it's just another place where folks are worried to much about their joystick size, then it's not worth investing the time in.
Can you picture the CT if the word got out that there were a core group of good sticks in there, that also were fun to talk to and learn from?
Guess how fast that place would fill up with other folks willing to get clobbered in the hopes of getting better and having fun.
Dan/CorkyJr
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" * Making your way in the world today takes everything you've got.
* Taking a break from all your worries, sure would help a lot.
* Wouldn't you like to get away?
* Sometimes you want to go, where everybody knows your name,
* and they're always glad you came.
* You wanna be where you can see, our troubles are all the same
* You wanna be where everybody knows your name.
* You wanna go where people know, people are all the same,
* You wanna go where everybody knows your name.
* You want to go where people know, people are all the same;
* You want to go where everybody knows your name."
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Take note of the ingredients:
http://www.dreyers.com/brand/grand/flavor.asp?b=133&f=1623
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Originally posted by Eagler
" * Making your way in the world today takes everything you've got.
* Taking a break from all your worries, sure would help a lot.
* Wouldn't you like to get away?
* Sometimes you want to go, where everybody knows your name,
* and they're always glad you came.
* You wanna be where you can see, our troubles are all the same
* You wanna be where everybody knows your name.
* You wanna go where people know, people are all the same,
* You wanna go where everybody knows your name.
* You want to go where people know, people are all the same;
* You want to go where everybody knows your name."
LOL, there is some truth to that.
AH is always the most fun when you are BSing with the folks you've gotten to know in the game, regardless what side they fly on. The fights aren't real fights after all :)
Sadly too many folks lose sight of that in the quest to measure their joystick
Dan/CorkyJr
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And I've only started a couple of threads "bashing" the CT.
Nice to know your only on the CT bashing band wagon part time... makes me feel a whole lot better now! :aok
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hmmm another I hate CT thread...
Group hug time !!!!
(http://www.r6-forum.com/nuke/modules/Forums/images/smiles/grouphug.gif)
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Originally posted by Shane
you castrati are more a "we" type.
:aok
"Castrati"!!! LMAO!!! That's the funniest thing I've seen here in a long, long time. Good one Shane.
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you've been away too long. I've been using it long enough to have it included in someone's sig. :D
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Why I don't fly in the CT
(my views may be out of date; it's been a while since I tried).
1) (and most important) Dot chasing. With the funky dar settings that were in place last time I tried; I'd spend 5-20 minutes chasing down a dot to find it was friendly. Then; suddenly; a dot I thought was well out of range would turn red and shoot me.
2) Ganging. I can survive ( a bit) in an MA 10 versus 20; but I can't survive in a CT 5 versus 1.
3) History. I don't care where you come from; or what you belive; Germany DID NOT have CV's parked off Dover
4) History; I don't care where you come from; or what you belive; Spits WERE in EVERY theatre; it's not my fault YOUR fighter of choice sucks; mine doesn't.
5) Base grab. Pure MA gamishness; that has NO place in an air combat sim.
In short; the ratio of posturing to fighting is way out of whack; and what fighting there is is of low quality.
In summary; I never understood what the RR guys had against FR in AW; I mean; if you want to fantisize about being a fighter jock; let's make it real; huh?.
Then I started AH; and I understand only too well now what it was all about.
JG54 are (from what I see here; haven't knowingly flown against them) all I despise about AH; and are CONSPICOUSLY absent from events; where they could put money where their collective mouth is.
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Originally posted by Shane
with apologies to Jeff Foxworthy...
blah blah blah and land only 1-2 kills a sortie... you might be a scorepotato.
Not necessarily you might just be a lucky VF-17 pilot like me.
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Originally posted by Eagler
most ppl are happy in MA, flying and dying. They need a reason/excuse to try CT out. Last thing they want is the nasty taste this board is putting in their mouth before they even try it out
There is wisdom in this observation. Obviously most people are going to start out in either the Main Arena or the Training Arena. We want to draw them into the CT, I would think, rather than persuade them that we're a nest of squealing chimpanzees flinging dung at each other. Guppy very sensibly pointed out that one way to distinguish yourself, in a good way, is to offer a nicer establishment.
For those of you who promptly jumped down his throat, I'd like to point out that we have often discussed ways of bringing more people into the arena, and he was participating in that effort. If my friends thought (think?) that I'm misbehaving, I'd like to have them tell me. I note that Storch has not lashed out at anyone in this thread, which I think is a pretty strong sign of maturity (and he is a grandfather, after all).
Possibly we can actually get back to the original point of the thread, which I take to be: Can we tone down the high school testosterone levels in the effort to make the CT a more grown-up place to play this game?
- oldman
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Originally posted by Oldman731
I note that Storch has not lashed out at anyone in this thread, which I think is a pretty strong sign of maturity (and he is a grandfather, after all).
- oldman
give him time to finish his nap. :D
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Originally posted by VWE
Nice to know your only on the CT bashing band wagon part time... makes me feel a whole lot better now! :aok
Well, I've been on the "CT bashing" band wagon since sometime in 2003. I just dont drive the wagon all that much since plenty of folks seem to want a turn. And while there are a number of good sticks who frequent the CT (on at least an occasional basis) overall its simply dropped down to double A ball at best. Now if you contrast that to 2002 the CT was a who's who of AH. Now you'll find more of those guys in the DA...just that simple.
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Originally posted by Eagler
exactly vwe
to many, it comes across just wrong and I believe hurts the CT
most ppl are happy in MA, flying and dying. They need a reason/excuse to try CT out. Last thing they want is the nasty taste this board is putting in their mouth before they even try it out
tk
it takes nothing to score in the top ten in CT, I am proof of that.
btw, you notice Eskimo's score? He is waiting his time to shoot into #1 b4 month's end and grab it for the tour. :)
Eagler,
I dont think the BBS really effects things one way or an other....in fact "bad pub" is often better then no pub.
However, it seems that 90%+ of the "new blood" (rookie or not) simply runs into the "mini horde". Some take great pleasure in that type of challenge but most simply move on. Sadly the general consensus seems to be that the caliber of fights/pilots in the MA greatly exceeds the quality of pilot/fight in the CT.
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As for score....well you'll do fine any place they let the f4 (109) in....BTW read a qoute from one of the top luftwabble aces that he felt the F4 was still the best 109 all the way up till the end of the war (fighter on fighter)...
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well,I for one like the Ct,I like flying allied vs axis an versi visi....i`ve been attending off an on for the past year or so and still get a kick outa it even tho i`m a poor adversary..my acm suks, shooting skills suk, but have had a lot a fun flying my cartoon planes(as Storch puts it)(quote,quote) with everyone ...maybe its me but i`ve never had any probs with anyone thats ever flown in the ct ...I do know one thing tho that theres no set rules or regulations on whats going on in the ct unless its a squad or historical nite ...so ya just end up flying by the seat of your pants on other nites.....
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Originally posted by humble
As for score....well you'll do fine any place they let the f4 (109) in....BTW read a qoute from one of the top luftwabble aces that he felt the F4 was still the best 109 all the way up till the end of the war (fighter on fighter)...
Yes, that was mr. Rall who said that. I believe you can find that quote on 109F in the photo report "Günther Rall, Luftwaffe ace in Finland June 2003" on Virtualpilots.fi site, somewhere here (http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/photoreports/guntherrall2003/).
And sorry for the hijack, please continue on the subject of this thread. ;)
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Originally posted by Oldman731
...a nest of squealing chimpanzees flinging dung at each other.
- oldman
:rofl
OM - that statement is priceless! Not only does it accurately reflect 2 out of the last 5 times I flew in the CT, it's also funny as hell. :aok
Thx for the laugh - I needed one today.
Cheers,
asw
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Originally posted by Panzzer
Yes, that was mr. Rall who said that. I believe you can find that quote on 109F in the photo report "Günther Rall, Luftwaffe ace in Finland June 2003" on Virtualpilots.fi site, somewhere here (http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/photoreports/guntherrall2003/).
And sorry for the hijack, please continue on the subject of this thread. ;)
No worries panzzer, this thread was already hijacked :)
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I have to agree with you Guppy.
I happen to be a player in the free H2H for a some years now...I am not a sim expert, not a combat superhero or an historical maniac but i love to play that game. I've been hosting on a regular basis for a long time and my main goal has always been to put people before the tech or historical aspect of the game.
I mainly post into the Free H2H tread or in the tech one but I have been reading some other parts of the BB. On a more regular basis recently since I am planning on getting the paying membership at the end of this summer... and I have to agree the impression it gives is not pleasant...
__________________
"JE ME SOUVIENS"
« Les Fils de la Liberté »
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Originally posted by Reschke
Not necessarily you might just be a lucky VF-17 pilot like me.
I'll second that! :)
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Originally posted by VWE
SA2, every time you get a couple of kills tonight I'll be there to take em away from you... just like any other night you venture into the CT. :D
And it'll be just like any other night lol. I've never had any complaint with you or your skills. Yer just grouchy. :) So is storch. Allmetal is only a tad touchy, but Truekill is downright bonkers if you set him off. :) I'm not calling you guys names or making statements about the way you play your game. Most of you guys in JG54 are pretty good sticks. But if you want to know why most people get a bad impression of the CT, just look at your first post in this thread to see part of the reason.
Dont worry though VWE, I LOVE YOU MAN!
Can I have a beer now? :)
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Please... lets say that the new Stars wars movies comes out and you really want to see it but you keep hearing people say it stinks. Do you ever listen to the lemmings or do you go and see it anyway and make up your own mind?
Same thing here... your going to go in and make up your own mind. So stop with this "I'm not coming in unless I feel welcome" boo hoo...
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Originally posted by humble
Bottom line to me is really simple, I like a good fight and I'll fly where I can find it. The outcome is less important to me then the experience....I was getting the snot knocked out of me by -HR- rocketman and BigT long before you knew what a flight sim was...and I've paddled the back side of snot nosed little kids like Oopsey...to see em come back as killing machines like shane.
There was a guy named Brook in AW (no clue if he still plays) who summed guys like me up very nicely "below the gods but above the unwashed masses".
If you mean "Brooke" he's here. Drop in for the scenario Saturday, we have openings for torpedo bombers. :) Brooke is the GL. We are IJN this week and next for the last 2 frames.
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Originally posted by VWE
Please... lets say that the new Stars wars movies comes out and you really want to see it but you keep hearing people say it stinks. Do you ever listen to the lemmings or do you go and see it anyway and make up your own mind?
Same thing here... your going to go in and make up your own mind. So stop with this "I'm not coming in unless I feel welcome" boo hoo...
Grouch. :)
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Yeah, yeah... and I walked to school in the snow 6 feet deep, 5 miles uphill each way... yada, yada, yada.
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GRANDPA!!
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Originally posted by VWE
Do you ever listen to the lemmings ?
I can't choose between which set of lemmings to listen too. The ones that think Star Wars is crap , or the ones who wear a chewbacca costume standing in 100 degree heat for three hours just to see what Darth Vader looks like without his helmet on.:eek:
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I'm next door in the a/c'd boobies bar spending the money and time I'm saving by waiting for it to hit video.
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Waiting for it to hit video? I just hop on the newsgroups and see for myself before wasting my money :p
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Originally posted by VWE
Please... lets say that the new Stars wars movies comes out and you really want to see it but you keep hearing people say it stinks. Do you ever listen to the lemmings or do you go and see it anyway and make up your own mind?
Same thing here... your going to go in and make up your own mind. So stop with this "I'm not coming in unless I feel welcome" boo hoo...
You're not getting it. Using your own Star Wars example. You can bet they spent a lot of time and energy on public relations/Advertising too.
I've yet to see Lucas say something similar to your last paragraph. He's trying to sell his movie and he wants folks to have a good impression so they come in.
You're saying you could care less, in the hopes people will come anyway and find out for themselves.
In the end you have very small numbers in the CT.
So it still comes down to, give me a reason to see your independent film that is "better" even though no one is in line to buy tickets.
As I look elsewhere I see blockbuster down the street where the crowd is lined up to get inside.
It's still about the PR and the leadership from the guys trying to sell the concept don't you think?
Dan/CorkyJr
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Originally posted by Guppy35
It's still about the PR and the leadership from the guys trying to sell the concept don't you think?
Dan/CorkyJr
I think Guppy nailed the whole idea of this thread.
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STAR WARS SUX!!!!! LORD OF THE RINGS RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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If you review the history of the CT from the early days when it was just a proposal until now the disinterested observer sees a few constants.
For example, in the pre-CT days a very small but vocal crowd continually tried to convince anyone who would read the board that what the vast majority of players REALLY wanted was a more "realistic" arena with historical matchups. The proposal was that we all hungered for no dar, no icons, no tracers, no this, no that, no the other thing and a "historically correct" planeset that rotated to allow various matchups.
Well, HT finally gave those folks enough rope to hang themselves. They got the CT as their very own sandbox, within the capabilities of the game program. There were things they wanted to do that the programming just didn't allow.
For the most part, the early proponents of the CT experience are long gone.
The experiment, after enjoying an initial burst of participation, faded down to a low level. Recently, it has about hit rock bottom. I don't know how long it can really be considered a viable option when prime time play shows single digit participation.
A realist would examine the history of the CT, the various "schemes" that were tried to elicit greater participation and come to the conclusion that what the CT proponents were trying to sell simply wasn't wanted by the majority of the AH players.
To be specific, the vast majority of players did not care for no dar, no icon setups. Even the move to "reduced MA icons" was a failure in attracting more players. The diehards refuse to accept the fact that the limitations of a monitor are excessive in comparison to real life SA. The great majority of players realize that and accept the modifications that ameliorate that situation.
As for the "historical matchups" it was found early on that this simply couldn't work. On the one hand, there were several theaters/periods of the war where one side or the other had a clearly superior airplane. Setups that are "true" to that history invite one side to clobber the snot out of the other in an arena format and generally lead to one side, the clobberees being rather unpopulated. Additionally, the AH planeset in the early days was to thin to really support such a "historical" setup and thus ridiculous substitutions were made, such as putting a Peggy in place of a Betty in an otherwise early war setup. I'm not sure the planeset could really support this idea now; I know it didn't in the early days.
So, I don't think there's any hope for the CT. Sorry for being blunt, but the only real option is to make it as close to the MA as possible but with historical opponents. I really don't think that would work either.
Its probably best left as it is. A very small club for the few willing to overlook (or relish) what the rest of the folks consider unreasonable limitations.
Just .02 from a disinterested observer.
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Originally posted by VWE
SA2, every time you get a couple of kills tonight I'll be there to take em away from you... just like any other night you venture into the CT. :D
Just learn to dodge HO's SA2 , and you'll be good as gold ;)
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HEY VWE dont HO I do!!!
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Originally posted by TrueKill
HEY VWE dont HO I do!!!
uh huh
BTW Star Wars and LTOR both kick bellybutton you little ingrate. I do prefer LTOR though:D
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Here is an idea..........LETS JUST GET RID OF THE WHOLE CT FORUM ALL TOGETHER!!!!!SINCE NOTHING GOOD IS COMING FROM IT ALL ANYWAYS!!JUST THINK ........NO MORE CT BASHING !!!!MAYBE THERE WILL BE MORE PEOPLE FLYING CT!IN FACT THEY WOULD BE SO BORED FROM NOT HAVING ANY OF THIS SOAP OPERA BULL$*IT TO READ THEY WOULD HAVE TO FLY!!!JG54 DID THIS.......JG54 DID THAT.......JG54 SAID THIS.......BUILD A BRIDGE AND GET OVER IT PEOPLE!!!!!! I`VE SEEN SHANE TREAT PEOPLE FAR WORSE THAN JG54 EVER DID AND I DON`T SEE ANYBODY BRINGING THAT UP.HOW MANY NOOBS HAS SHANE RUN OUT OF THE GAME WITH HIS BIG MOUTH?????YOU PEOPLE KEEP IT UP AND THERE WILL BE NO DAMN CT.HOW MANY LW SQUADS ARE THERE IN CT BESIDES JG54?WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO THE CT IF JG54 LEFT?WE ARE A CT SQUAD......NOT AN MA SQUAD AND NOT A SEA SQUAD.SOMEOF US FLY IN MA IN DIFFERENT SQUADS.PERSONALLY I COULD CARE LESS WHAT PEOPLE THINK OF US CAUSE WE DON`T FLY SEA.IN FACT WE COULD SAY THE SAME FOR ALL OF YOU WHO DON`T FLY CT.IN FACT YOU FOLKS WHO DON`T FLY CT HAVE NO RIGHT TO BAD MOUTH US.YOU GOT SOMETHING TO SAY?GO TO THE CT AND SAY IT WITH A PLANE!!!!!I SAY PUT UP OR HAVE A NICE CUP OF STFU!
NOW INSTEAD OF WHINING AND CRYING ABOUT WHATS WRONG WITH JG54 AND THE CT IN GENERAL,LETS TRY AND MAKE THE DAMN CT A PLACE WORTH GOING TO.i PLEDGE RIGHT HERE AND NOW THAT IF IN 1 MONTHS TIME THINGS AREN`T BETTER THEN I`M OUT.i CAN SPEND MY 20 BUCKS ON MORE IMPORTANT THINGS IN LIFE.IF I WANTED A DAMN SOAP OPERA I`D WATCH WRESTLING.
I CHALLENGE ALL CT`ERS TO SUBMIT IDEAS TO FIX THIS PROBLEM.
p.s.
shane if you got something helpful to add then by all means add it.If not then shut your pie hole cause nobody wants to hear your smartarse remarks.
:mad: :mad: :mad:
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CAPS! ANGRY CAPS! BIG `OL ANGRY CAPS!
I miss dis game, Miss Scarlett!
Changing of things not, sahib.
But referencing Toad's opinion .... neh .... don't seem spot on. HiTech's been a supporter of the CT ... not to "give enough rope." You should know that. The CT is the closest thing to "Tour of Duty" we gots right now. HT is actually into more realism. ;)
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Originally posted by Seeker
JG54 are (from what I see here; haven't knowingly flown against them) all I despise about AH; and are CONSPICOUSLY absent from events; where they could put money where their collective mouth is.
But that would mean stepping out the sandbox.
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Originally posted by Arlo
HiTech's been a supporter of the CT ... not to "give enough rope."
Did you talk to him about back when he made the decision? He supports it alright, but not for the reason you think. :)
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I have always seen the CT as a place to go for some fun plane match ups, nice maps, very often a place to find some good fights and a generally laid back enviorment.
A few bad apples who are trying too hard won't ruin that image for me.
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Originally posted by allmetal
I CHALLENGE ALL CT`ERS TO SUBMIT IDEAS TO FIX THIS PROBLEM
:mad: :mad: :mad:
If you'd paid attention to what I wrote at the beginning, you'd have seen that I was pointing out that for things to change I thought that the CT vets and leaders needed to be aware of how some folks are presenting themselves here in the Forum.
I never took a shot at JG54. I suggested that while Storch's heart seems to be in the right place, as in wanting things to improve, he and the CT would be better served if the presentation was better ie; don't get in pissing contests with Skuzzy for example.
I also suggested that some, emphasis on some, of the folks associated with Storch's squad need to consider how their actions reflect on him, his squad and the CT in general.
I then got VWE telling me to shut up and fly, and now you saying you are gonna take your ball and go home ....
as for your challenge to submit ideas, I did so in this previous thread
http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=147811
Dan/CorkyJr
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Originally posted by allmetal
shane if you got something helpful to add then by all means add it.If not then shut your pie hole cause nobody wants to hear your smartarse remarks.
one cannot help those who do not wish to be helped.
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hope to cya there
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But that would mean stepping out the sandbox.
Slash, best this you've done for the CT lately is eat your humble pie and stay away... hope your absence becomes the norm. :aok
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Yes, you hate it when you guys cant act like a bunch of three year olds when Im around. How old are you anyway?
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Ok allmetal. Let me pull up my soapbox. The problem with the CT is the gaminess that goes along with the egos that are present.
Whats funny about the egos is that none of us are close to being top sim pilots. Yet the mouths run talking crap about runners and gangers yet we dont hesitate to run or gang. Now getting ganged is common place in the CT. But sinking CV's or parking CV's right off shore, base capturing, Vulching with GV's or vulching period then saying its not vulching cus wheels were up is crazy. DAR has made the CT a better place for guys like me who just want to fight. To attract more players we need to cut out the gaminess and egos. Let 1 v 1 be 1 v 1. Just keep the fights even. No need to talk trash over ch 1. and show some respect. Basically we need an arena full of oldmans.
On a side note my first encounter with shane wasnt pleasant. He trashed talked me and my fighting even tho I was new. I told him to shut up and fly. Not long after I asked him to show me his reversal. We went to the DA and he was a great instructor. How many trash talkers in the CT will do that?
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Originally posted by jamusta
How many trash talkers in the CT will do that?
None?
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Originally posted by VWE
Slash, best this you've done for the CT lately is eat your humble pie and stay away... hope your absence becomes the norm. :aok
Funny how it all works. There were a few of us in there tonite. Slash stopped in to check to see if things were working ok. He didn't have time to fly, but was making sure the CT was working fine.
Kinda nice, I thought, that he did so.
A couple of us went into the MA to try and get some folks to come fly and we had a bit of luck. Fights were good for the most part.
Sadly, I think it irked Storch a bit as he blasted the 38 drivers, and implied it was an uber plane, then made some other comments about people coming in, almost like we'd invaded his personal domain.
That's the stuff I was talking about when I started this thread. Storch clearly has invested a lot of time and energy into the CT. For that he is to be commended. At the same time, because he is so visibile, his reaction to new folks coming in should be a positive one.
Allmetal piped in to this thread telling us to do something about it. OK we did. We went and got some MA folks to come fly and folks had fun.
You can't have it both ways though. It's going to take some real effort by the regulars to give those folks we can get into theCT from the MA, to come back again, and part of that is the interaction between people on both sides.
Very serious kudos to BatfinkV for the tone he was setting and the work he did to get MA folks to come fly the CT. He had far better luck then I did.
Dan/CorkyJr
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Overall its pretty simple. Just treat each other with respect and understand that there are limitations to exactly how much we as players and staffers can do to make this a "historical" matchup arena.
I learned a long time ago that you can't please everyone all of the time so its best to just no worry about it and move on.
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Originally posted by Guppy35
Very serious kudos to BatfinkV for the tone he was setting and the work he did to get MA folks to come fly the CT.
Dan/CorkyJr
:aok
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Sadly, I think it irked Storch a bit as he blasted the 38 drivers, and implied it was an uber plane, then made some other comments about people coming in, almost like we'd invaded his personal domain.
I tried the CT once lately since maybe 6 months.
The nothin like being insulted by"elitist" wablle pilots.
I never forget the warm cozy feeling other player give u there :rolleyes:
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Oh and Redd told me yesterday theBug been bashed by paranoid CRUMPP just because he thought it was me.
FEEL THE LOVE
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Bug322
You missed a rare night in CT last night, the night before was very good also
many thanks to those that made it happen
BatfinkV and CorkyJr
hope for many more nights like last night, that is what the CT should be every night
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Originally posted by Seeker
Why I don't fly in the CT
(my views may be out of date; it's been a while since I tried).
Dude, your views are out of date. Well, mostly they are.
1) (and most important) Dot chasing. With the funky dar settings that were in place last time I tried; I'd spend 5-20 minutes chasing down a dot to find it was friendly. Then; suddenly; a dot I thought was well out of range would turn red and shoot me.
This is nothing more than adjusting to the setting. On those occasions when I visit the MA, I am surprised at how long it takes to get to the dot. FWIW, frequently (in fact, possibly always) now we have MA DAR and icon settings. While this appeared to be the biggest objection of the MA crowd, I have noted that attendance has not improved, even though these settings have been well-advertised.
2) Ganging. I can survive ( a bit) in an MA 10 versus 20; but I can't survive in a CT 5 versus 1.
We're working on this. I still think that ganging is less than it is in the MA.
3) History. I don't care where you come from; or what you belive; Germany DID NOT have CV's parked off Dover
And they haven't, in BoB scenarios, for some years now, Seeker.
4) History; I don't care where you come from; or what you belive; Spits WERE in EVERY theatre; it's not my fault YOUR fighter of choice sucks; mine doesn't.
Which is fine in the MA, where the guy on the other side can grab a Spit and you'll be even. In an Axis v. Allied setup, where range is not a factor, the Axis has no equivalent to the Spit in the ETO (we had a fun match between Spit 9s and Niks one week, though). Your observation on this is shared by many others, so that when there are spits in a setup the vast majority of allied pilots fly spits, and it is unpleasant to fly axis.
5) Base grab. Pure MA gamishness; that has NO place in an air combat sim.
I agree with this.
- oldman
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Only comment I am gonna make about the Spits is this:
It does get old to see the remarks about not needing Spits in a setup when they were the 109's classical opponent from the British side.
Face it, the Spits are the only Allied rides players can take, other than the perked Tempest, that will even come near matching any of the 109 series in a climb. Take out the Spits and you find yourself engaging the enemy with him above you from the start, so you are fighting an uphill battle right from the get go.
So, take out the Spits AND the 109's, do a setup with Typhoons and 190's only. Or any of the other Allied fighters of the same era, match them up only with the 190's or 110's, leave out the uber climbing 109's.
Does anyone understand any of what I just said?
LW players argue to take out the Brits most common fighter, yet want to leave in the Germans' most common one, and it just doesn't make sense, well, not to me anyway.
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I don't think anyone wants the spits removed. there is however quite a bit of grumbling about the overboosted spitv.
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Well put, storch, but the complaints/remarks anytime a Spit was included in an ETO setup have been there since before AH2 came out, before the overboosted SpitV.
Just my two cents, sir.
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nope spit5 souldnt bee in any setup where they use the 12boost and not the 16boost if they do use it then put in a G6 or G10
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Oh and Redd told me yesterday theBug been bashed by paranoid CRUMPP just because he thought it was me.
Crumpp apologized for his mistake, so this point should be mute eh bug?
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Originally posted by TrueKill
nope spit5 souldnt bee in any setup where they use the 12boost and not the 16boost if they do use it then put in a G6 or G10
Why are you guys so paranoid about Spits V's ? Not like you going to turnfight them, they should be cannon fodder for G6's and Fw's so what's the big deal.
When you line up to HO a Spit - does it matter if the boost is 12 or 16lbs - can't imagine it being a big issue ;)
Apparently there's Spits in this setup, I haven't seen one in the sky yet - so much for everyone wants to fly the spit.
Niki hypocrites
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Eddiek... put the Spit9 in every ETO setup as far as I'm concerned. I've made the comment that the Spit5 should not be included in any CT setup, any other varient including the Spit14 is okey dokey with me.
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Redd, you take any varient of the 109 in the CT up tonight and I'll go grab a Spit5... and I want you to show me how un uber the Spit5 is by whacking me over and over again cause I'll not be able to compete with you.
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Originally posted by Redd
Why are you guys so paranoid about Spits V's ? Not like you going to turnfight them, they should be cannon fodder for G6's and Fw's so what's the big deal.
When you line up to HO a Spit - does it matter if the boost is 12 or 16lbs - can't imagine it being a big issue ;)
Apparently there's Spits in this setup, I haven't seen one in the sky yet - so much for everyone wants to fly the spit.
Niki hypocrites
I just dont like spit5s cuz they are the biggest dweeb rides in the game it takes no skill to fly one. Oh no here comes a 109 lemme just turn and then ill try to turn oh I know what I can do turn. spitI, IX, and IVX I can stand. But the V is jsut stupid, and now with the 16 boost it can outturn and out run a 109F. And yes I know first hand cuz the 109F is my fav. plane I'm eather in the F or a dora in the MA and even without gondies unless you have alt to B&Z him your outa luck.
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Originally posted by VWE
Crumpp apologized for his mistake, so this point should be mute eh bug?
moot, as in the 190/109 guy
Mute fly's with MOL - damn nice guy
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Originally posted by VWE
Redd, you take any varient of the 109 in the CT up tonight and I'll go grab a Spit5... and I want you to show me how un uber the Spit5 is by whacking me over and over again cause I'll not be able to compete with you.
ok
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I'm always suprised at the amount of "spitdweeb" bashing that goes on. No question that in a "dueling" enviornment the spitty has a big edge (especially with the upped boost). It's also the easier plane to fly overall....
But the 109 is more than a match for a spit in the MA or CT IMO. The "bookends" in particular do well. The G10 is still the single best plane in the game if flown to its strengths and the F4 is very cabable of E fighting any spitty and winning. Other then the E which I simply view as dogfood the rest of the matchup is quite good. Personally I hate the 109s with the exception of the G2 since they dictate how the pilot has to fly them vs a Ki-61 or F6 (for example) that can be flown successfully in a much broader range of scenarios....
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guppy, I made a comment to one specific cartoon P38 driver who had happily shot his mouth off about a cartoon squaddy of mine repeatedly in another thread. it was a response to his own assertations that the P38 was an uber plane. perhaps he's right. in any event I cartoon nailed him as he was trying to cartoon run away from a cartoon fight after his two cartoon P38yuberfriends got smoked. apparently he knew who I meant because he whined as was reported by a squaddy. it was reported that he cried foul and gangyness. I had remained high and out of the cartoon fight until he attempted to make his cartoon escape. 'twas a nice cherrypick too. if the cartoon pilot in question recorded it I would like to see the film. I love animated features.
the second comment was that this was supposed to be dday and not bobII or words to that effect as the ackllieds were typically hanging over the nasty port ack on the cartoon english side.
only two comments. just so you know I don't read 200 or ch1. sadly I can't report on who said what to whom regarding this or that.
some of you fellows must have binoculars and are completely aware of all the comings and goings in your neighborhoods. we need that here. a sort of CT JG54 crime watch. good idea you civic minded wonder players. keep a log too you never can tell when you may need the evidence.
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Originally posted by TrueKill
I just dont like spit5s cuz they are the biggest dweeb rides in the game it takes no skill to fly one. Oh no here comes a 109 lemme just turn and then ill try to turn oh I know what I can do turn. spitI, IX, and IVX I can stand. But the V is jsut stupid, and now with the 16 boost it can outturn and out run a 109F. And yes I know first hand cuz the 109F is my fav. plane I'm eather in the F or a dora in the MA and even without gondies unless you have alt to B&Z him your outa luck.
So basically you don't like the Spit V because it outturns the 109F , which is your favourite plane.
Let's exclude planes on that basis - no probs
PAC - no more nikis and KI84's because they outurn my favourite plane - the F6-F.
I'm actually not arguing for it to be in , I just find it amusing that you are so paranoid about a plane that has severe weaknesses against well flown axis plane-sets
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Originally posted by Redd
So basically you don't like the Spit V because it outturns the 109F , which is your favourite plane.
Let's exclude planes on that basis - no probs
PAC - no more nikis and KI84's because they outurn my favourite plane - the F6-F.
I'm actually not arguing for it to be in , I just find it amusing that you are so paranoid about a plane that has severe weaknesses against well flown axis plane-ets
do I dont like it cuz its a uber dweeb noob ride that I can get kills in with out even trying like grits said its only about 4mph slower the the 9 now in it turns better then the 9.
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Originally posted by storch
guppy, I made a comment to one specific cartoon P38 driver who had happily shot his mouth off about a cartoon squaddy of mine repeatedly in another thread. it was a response to his own assertations that the P38 was an uber plane. perhaps he's right. in any event I cartoon nailed him as he was trying to cartoon run away from a cartoon fight after his two cartoon P38yuberfriends got smoked. apparently he knew who I meant because he whined as was reported by a squaddy. it was reported that he cried foul and gangyness. I had remained high and out of the cartoon fight until he attempted to make his cartoon escape. 'twas a nice cherrypick too. if the cartoon pilot in question recorded it I would like to see the film. I love animated features.
the second comment was that this was supposed to be dday and not bobII or words to that effect as the ackllieds were typically hanging over the nasty port ack on the cartoon english side.
only two comments. just so you know I don't read 200 or ch1. sadly I can't report on who said what to whom regarding this or that.
some of you fellows must have binoculars and are completely aware of all the comings and goings in your neighborhoods. we need that here. a sort of CT JG54 crime watch. good idea you civic minded wonder players. keep a log too you never can tell when you may need the evidence.
I am startingto need an interpreter for your posts Storchy
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When the Spit5 is included and its near the front feilds 7 out of 10 allies are in it. Yet when only the Spit9 is in less than half fly it... why is that redd?
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Originally posted by VWE
Redd, you take any varient of the 109 in the CT up tonight and I'll go grab a Spit5... and I want you to show me how un uber the Spit5 is by whacking me over and over again cause I'll not be able to compete with you.
Actually even better
lets pop in to the DA , and we'll fight every variety of the 109 against SpitV, and every variety of 190 against the Spit V, and see how many the Spit V wins
It would be an interesting exercise.
I am a very ordinary 109 and 190 pilot , but I believe I could win one or two.
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Originally posted by humble
I'm always suprised at the amount of "spitdweeb" bashing that goes on. No question that in a "dueling" enviornment the spitty has a big edge (especially with the upped boost). It's also the easier plane to fly overall....
But the 109 is more than a match for a spit in the MA or CT IMO. The "bookends" in particular do well. The G10 is still the single best plane in the game if flown to its strengths and the F4 is very cabable of E fighting any spitty and winning. Other then the E which I simply view as dogfood the rest of the matchup is quite good. Personally I hate the 109s with the exception of the G2 since they dictate how the pilot has to fly them vs a Ki-61 or F6 (for example) that can be flown successfully in a much broader range of scenarios....
well except (and this may be my particular problem with my equipment) what happens to me is that as I dive onto a spit and the spit driver executes a chandelle (a climb and turn typically to the left) no matter what my E state (which should be good) as I start to pull the necessary lead on the spit the right wing unexplainably drops at about 225 tas, basically an accellerated stall. no matter how carefully I imput control it occurs. now here's the killer not every day and never in the MA. I don't have the stall limiter enabled but I do use combat trim.
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Comment about the p38 from storch now thats funny.
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8 pm central time... can't get there any sooner though I do have Wensdays off so I can make it in at a later time if you prefer. Anyone wants to watch ya'll can join up in God mode...
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Originally posted by VWE
When the Spit5 is included and its near the front feilds 7 out of 10 allies are in it. Yet when only the Spit9 is in less than half fly it... why is that redd?
VWE ,
to be perfectly honest , I don't ever remember flying a Spit V in the CT , not saying I haven't , but it was either so long ago, or so rare that I have forgotten (without checking stats which I can't be bothered)
Against Axis planes I would take the 9 every time - it is a better propostion against the axis planeset
But again , I don't remember flying the 9 much either - they are very rare birds in the CT from what I have seen.
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Originally posted by VWE
8 pm central time... can't get there any sooner though I do have Wensdays off so I can make it in at a later time if you prefer. Anyone wants to watch ya'll can join up in God mode...
It will have to be later (I have a big time difference and that's the middle of the day)
I'll find you in the CT this week , and we'll set it up
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I just read the first page of this thread and it PERFECTLY illustrates what Guppy ment.
What I expect from CT is an arena of history interested players but what it is is an arena of arrogant testosteronic arses, I know not everyone but thats the impression you DO get from these and MA boards.
When ever the CT´s problems come up it turns into a pissing contest.
Freekin 5 year olds in a sandbox are more humble.
As long as CT views it self as a "elitist" arena this problem will remain.
I would die for a historical arena with high numbers, Id be there every night.
But if Im to choose to play with "arrogant vets" or "humble noobs" then I would choose the later every night of the week.
Tex.
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Tex... in here its just talkin the talk, come to the CT and walk the walk.
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So you mean a person who is arrogant arse on forums can be a humble gentleman in game?
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Originally posted by storch
well except (and this may be my particular problem with my equipment) what happens to me is that as I dive onto a spit and the spit driver executes a chandelle (a climb and turn typically to the left) no matter what my E state (which should be good) as I start to pull the necessary lead on the spit the right wing unexplainably drops at about 225 tas, basically an accellerated stall. no matter how carefully I imput control it occurs. now here's the killer not every day and never in the MA. I don't have the stall limiter enabled but I do use combat trim.
Control input spikes would be my guess. I've not seen what you're seeing (outside wing stalling before the inside wing in a high speed, high G turn). What I do see when I get ham-fisted is the inside wing dropping on me.
Cheers,
asw
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Originally posted by storch
well except (and this may be my particular problem with my equipment) what happens to me is that as I dive onto a spit and the spit driver executes a chandelle (a climb and turn typically to the left) no matter what my E state (which should be good) as I start to pull the necessary lead on the spit the right wing unexplainably drops at about 225 tas, basically an accellerated stall. no matter how carefully I imput control it occurs. now here's the killer not every day and never in the MA. I don't have the stall limiter enabled but I do use combat trim.
Combat trim might be the problem, back when I was a trainer one of the fundementals we worked on was in fight trimming...primarily just the elevator. I dont use combat trim so Icould be off here....but I think it trims the other two as well. Since it "lags" its never really correct. It's probably inducing that stall as it catchs up.
I want the bird reasonably trimmed for "combat speed level"...then I'll trim the elv as needed...but I dont have screwy inputs to worry about...you've got a "copilot" along adding subtracting inputs.
Tactically it sounds like your prosocuting an initial attack from a pos E position. There are tons of ways to fly...what I "taught" was the tightening E fight....basically on the 1st pass I want to top him out...as he goes up I go up...I dont ever want to get under or sacrifice E or angles for a difficult shot....as he "tops out" on the chandelle I want to be above behind and inverted so I can "rudder" the 109 down on the elbow...normally I wont press that shot either unless its a really good look....but I will force him to break hard...but again I'll stay in the over spot.
To me the biggest strength of the 109 is the rudder in vertical obliques...biggest weakness is the "ragged edge" under deceleration in moderate G "flat" turns....so you cant ever be in plane with the spitty for long since he gains angles and E everysecond. Basically you got to get on top of him and stomp him to death. Thats why I hate the 109....in A ki-61...I'll just tighten the bird up and the spit will pop if it was a good solution (same with F6)...the 109 denies me that option...so in effect Ineed to fly it like a jug and "pop up" over the chandelle invert and pull thru the elbow usingthe 109 rudder instead of the roll of the jug (but same basic move)...but the 109 doesnt have the combat flaps of the jug so I cant convert to angles. So the planes removed two quality options from my bag....so I'm left with the vertical E fight in the oblique...a fight the 109 is designed for and will win virtually every time vs any plane (pilot skill being equal)....
Simply the way it is....
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Originally posted by TexMurphy
So you mean a person who is arrogant arse on forums can be a humble gentleman in game?
Tex
you would not recognize CT the last couple of nights
check it out
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storch
turn combat trim off - learn to manual trim the german planes, all planes if you ask me
I do not have the issue you describe
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Originally posted by TexMurphy
So you mean a person who is arrogant arse on forums can be a humble gentleman in game?
Right ,actually Storch is better ingame than in the forum :)
but I never wrote that :D
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Originally posted by storch
well except (and this may be my particular problem with my equipment) what happens to me is that as I dive onto a spit and the spit driver executes a chandelle (a climb and turn typically to the left) no matter what my E state (which should be good) as I start to pull the necessary lead on the spit the right wing unexplainably drops at about 225 tas, basically an accellerated stall. no matter how carefully I imput control it occurs. now here's the killer not every day and never in the MA. I don't have the stall limiter enabled but I do use combat trim.
I stopped into the DA this morning and checked the 109F4 out...didnt realize I've never flown it in AH2 (had to set all the views:))....Redd and TK were occupied with each other so I went in search of other entertainment. All in all its not a bad bird....but as I said earlier its very restrictive (IMO) in what it lets you do.
I played some cat & mouse with Taki off and on. No question hes a much better stick than I am...but he's primarily a spit/nikki driver and tends to fly the 109 that way (from what I saw)...
Anyway storch I filmed this, basically even against another 109 I never get "in sync"...since I had bb's only I was really just having fun watching Taki...one thing to note is the relatively poor forced shots he's getting...and the guys basically a killing machine.
Finally, got to say the 109 ballistics are really poor...didnt check my convergence before hand but outside of 200 thing is useless IMO...
http://www.azhacker.com/images/109F4.ahf
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yup it was the combat trim. i just called HTC and pyro took the time to help me map them on my x45. i had them mapped manually in AH1 and never got around to setting them in here. i took a hop in the ct but since no one was there i had to honk it around by myself in kata fashion. let's see when i apply the bunkai later today. thanks for the film yourworshipfullness i'll view it later. the guys in the shop already make enough fun of me because of this game. imagine what would happen if they saw me taking notes from a cartoon. :D
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Originally posted by straffo
Right ,actually Storch is better ingame than in the forum :)
but I never wrote that :D
shaddap and go add more numbers to your nuclear family, hadji and yasmin are threatening to take over france you know. :D
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Originally posted by storch
yup it was the combat trim. i just called HTC and pyro took the time to help me map them on my x45.
Hey Storch , is there a place you can DL the mapping for an X45? Or you just gotta call and hope you get lucky?
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Originally posted by Shifty
Hey Storch , is there a place you can DL the mapping for an X45? Or you just gotta call and hope you get lucky?
X45 AH profile and stuff (http://www.pogbird.com/X45)
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Originally posted by storch
yup it was the combat trim. i just called HTC and pyro took the time to help me map them on my x45. i had them mapped manually in AH1 and never got around to setting them in here. i took a hop in the ct but since no one was there i had to honk it around by myself in kata fashion. let's see when i apply the bunkai later today. thanks for the film yourworshipfullness i'll view it later. the guys in the shop already make enough fun of me because of this game. imagine what would happen if they saw me taking notes from a cartoon. :D
You asked a question and I'm trying to give youa straight up answer on the 109(F) "issues"....wife is sick so I'm "working" from home. Took a 109F up in MA out of curiousity...actually have 2 clips but 1st is long...shows some stuff vs pony/190D/la-7...pony and 190 die...lala survives to fight elsewhere....2nd clip (below) is same hop. Fly toward enemy DAR (and find em)...109 seems fine...is just a bit squirrelly for me. End up with 4 (I think) cons on me...no problem forcing nikki off and thru me...but the 205 driver is in good form...totally forces me out of my game...again he cant hang in the vertical oblique with me and in a 1 on 1 he'd of been gone (least I hope:))....but again he converts to defense very nicely...my SA is shot and he's the "A" threat so I stay on him but somebody pops me before I can reorient.
Simply shows its the pilot that counts...205 doesnt get the kill but he's the guy who really killed me there...anyway its here if you want to look at it.
http://www.azhacker.com/images/109F4inMA.ahf
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Originally posted by Eagler
X45 AH profile and stuff (http://www.pogbird.com/X45)
Any mappings for the x52?
Has anyone been able to use the second hat switch with the x52?
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Thanks Eagler:aok
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Originally posted by storch
guppy, I made a comment to one specific cartoon P38 driver who had happily shot his mouth off about a cartoon squaddy of mine repeatedly in another thread. it was a response to his own assertations that the P38 was an uber plane. perhaps he's right. in any event I cartoon nailed him as he was trying to cartoon run away from a cartoon fight after his two cartoon P38yuberfriends got smoked. apparently he knew who I meant because he whined as was reported by a squaddy. it was reported that he cried foul and gangyness. I had remained high and out of the cartoon fight until he attempted to make his cartoon escape. 'twas a nice cherrypick too. if the cartoon pilot in question recorded it I would like to see the film. I love animated features.
the second comment was that this was supposed to be dday and not bobII or words to that effect as the ackllieds were typically hanging over the nasty port ack on the cartoon english side.
only two comments. just so you know I don't read 200 or ch1. sadly I can't report on who said what to whom regarding this or that.
some of you fellows must have binoculars and are completely aware of all the comings and goings in your neighborhoods. we need that here. a sort of CT JG54 crime watch. good idea you civic minded wonder players. keep a log too you never can tell when you may need the evidence.
You are missing the point Storch. You ae a visible representative of both the CT and the CT development group. The latter role giving you in my opinion even greater responsibility in how you present yourself as you clearly have an investment in making the CT work.
Roughly 3500 posts on these boards, meaning there is some name recognition for folks who pay attention.
Some of us had been flying for a while last night before you appeared. No one, and I mean no one, had been complaining about anything. The fights had ebbed and flowed back over the channel. The conversation on the open channels was respectful and folks were having fun.
You show up and the first whines show up too. Somehow people weren't playing it your way is how it came across. So what if you caught someone in the Ack. No one was hiding in it. No complaints about what folks were flying prior to that as well.
Again Storch, for me it comes down to the responsibilty you have with your more visible role in the CT. You need to help set the tone.
Using BatfinkV as an example. Last night when I popped in, he was setting the tone. Respectful, welcoming, talking to both sides of the Channel and working his tail off to find guys from the MA to the TA to come fly the CT. He never grumbled about a thing and it was great fun flying with him.
And if you look at the posts recently, people noticed something different last night. That, in my opinion is very much a result of BatfinkV and his efforts.
People seemed to have responded well to it too. Isn't that what we should want the CT to be like?
Dan/CorkyJr
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Hey Corky... shhhhhhh.... before long you'll be typing a book on every post.
Oops, too late... :D
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Storch I have my elv and airleon (sp?:)) mapped to the "hat" on back of throttle...my X-45 hats are going so I got an X-52...rudder toggle much better then "twisty" IMO. If you you do watch the MA clip you'll see once I get em all on my 6 (which is where I want em SA wise) I auto trim....never touch anything but elv trim after that...I think there are 3 or 4 places where I might have lost the bird on "combat" trim...especially when I'm in the climbing right hander hanging the prop on the 205 and rudder over the other way on him....earlier clip shows 109F in all kinds of "free fall" basically the bird is stalled...but under control....now if I had trim being input to "recover" the bird it would spin for sure....you'll be amazed how much better the birds fly (zeke also) without Combat Trim....
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Originally posted by VWE
Hey Corky... shhhhhhh.... before long you'll be typing a book on every post.
Oops, too late... :D
LOL, it's only because I seem to lack the ability to say anything clearly in a short sentence.
Dan/CorkyJr
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Originally posted by Oldman731
Dude, your views are out of date. Well, mostly they are.
Undoubtedly; I'll see if I can update them :)
This is nothing more than adjusting to the setting.
If it was just long; or just short; fair enough; it's when it's different ranges for frnd or nma it annoys, (ok, ok, annoyed).
We're working on this. I still think that ganging is less than it is in the MA.
It's not the quantity; it's the quality. I've always found the CT particularly merciless in this regard. Contrary to the good old days of fighter town; CT guys seem to take _pride_ in ganging and unfair fights. It may be "historical"; but then so is the Axis losing. Is it fun?
And they haven't, in BoB scenarios, for some years now, Seeker.
Very prolly true; but I reckon CV's and base grab are the bane of the CT (unless a specific CV recreation is attempted; in which case it's cool)
Which is fine in the MA, where the guy on the other side can grab a Spit and you'll be even. In an Axis v. Allied setup, where range is not a factor, the Axis has no equivalent to the Spit in the ETO (we had a fun match between Spit 9s and Niks one week, though). Your observation on this is shared by many others, so that when there are spits in a setup the vast majority of allied pilots fly spits, and it is unpleasant to fly axis.
The Axis has no equal to the Spit in the ETO? Did I just hear you say that the Axis plane set; which runs up to and including the Ta152 and the Me 109-G10 (not to mention the superlative 262) cannot match either a 1942 SpitV nor a 1943 Spit IX nor a 1944 Spit XIV? What about the Spit I? Will the leather boys risk their hot rods against a Spit I? Really; me thinks the wobbles protesteth too much..... :) Obviously Brits should only be limited to Hurris (but only with 303's); because we're so over reachingly Uber!
- oldman [/B][/QUOTE]
But to be honest; the _real_ reason I don't fly there is the same as any one else confronted with the log on screen. Do I click on the line with 5 people; or with 450 people? A viscious circle I know.
I know that I _really_ want the CT to succeed; because I'd like to fly the Battle of Britain on-line 24/7; but when ever I've been there; the fun's been not so good.
I salute yours and +Tiff's efforts; and I'll try to remember to pop in a bit more.
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Well; just popped in.
there was nobody (0) there. That's OK; some one's got to be first.
Lovely plane set; although I still find it odd that comparitivly rare planes (I said comparitivly; dammit!) in the ETO such as the P38L are unlimited; while the ubiquitous Spits; both the V and the IX are only to be had in bases well away from the front line.
Not even Biggin hill nor Manston had Spits!
So I took that well know ETO fighter; the P38L and porked A45. By myself; taking about 15 -20 flak hits in the process (OK; I suck) with no damage. Ack a bit light perhaps?
Oh well; it's no ones fault there's no one there for me to fight; but it IS odd that England almost has no Spits!
But lots of late war pork mobiles.......
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Originally posted by VWE
When the Spit5 is included and its near the front feilds 7 out of 10 allies are in it. Yet when only the Spit9 is in less than half fly it... why is that redd?
Actually I think the answer is fairly simple.
You have a Spitfire LFVc vs a Spit FIX.
If you are a furballer and can get the other guy to fight your fight, you'll take a Spit V everytime. It's lighter which means it turns better, it has the same ammo load as a Spit IX, and the Spit IX that AH has isn't an LF, which means it's performance isn't at it's best at the altitudes AH is fought at.
Give me an LFIXe and I'll take it everytime over an LFVc, but as it stands now, the AH Spitfire V is more optimized for the fighting that goes on in AH.
THe secret is not to fight the Spit Vs fight. If you get it low and slow, it's going to get inside you and boom. But it can't catch you and you can B& Z it all day long.
Problem is a good Spit V pilot will evade forever until you get frustrated and try and turn with him, then boom you are done :)
Dan/CorkyJr
Yeah I know, I talk too much
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Exactly Guppy....
The 109 is a slash and run bird, both in AH and in WW2. It wasn't designed to "rumble" and doesn't excel in it. It was both the strength and weakness of the bird. Obviously in AH where icons and DAR make the suprise bounce much less of a reality you have negated some of the 109's edge. Also if you read the various after action reports its not uncommon for the attacking force to bounce an enemy formation in a "one and done" manner and scoot home with wahtever pelts they got in the one attack. While involved combat wasnt uncommon it want the norm either.
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Originally posted by Seeker
...........but I reckon CV's and base grab are the bane of the CT (unless a specific CV recreation is attempted; in which case it's cool)
The Axis has no equal to the Spit in the ETO? Did I just hear you say that the Axis plane set; which runs up to and including the Ta152 and the Me 109-G10 (not to mention the superlative 262) cannot match either a 1942 SpitV nor a 1943 Spit IX nor a 1944 Spit XIV? What about the Spit I? Will the leather boys risk their hot rods against a Spit I? Really; me thinks the wobbles protesteth too much..... :) Obviously Brits should only be limited to Hurris (but only with 303's); because we're so over reachingly Uber!
On the CV issue, it's been debated several times, in different setups. I *believe* the current consensus is that CVs (when in use) are kept close enough to get fighters into the action, thats about it.
As for the Spit issue, I really wish they would put the V back down to +12 boost and end this argument. But if I am flying allied in a BoB setup, give me a Hurricane anytime over a Spit. If they'd give me the Hurri IIb I'd never touch a Spitfire again. :)
If given a choice only of Spits though, I'll fly the Spit I over the V anyday.
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Originally posted by Seeker
...........but I reckon CV's and base grab are the bane of the CT (unless a specific CV recreation is attempted; in which case it's cool)
The Axis has no equal to the Spit in the ETO? Did I just hear you say that the Axis plane set; which runs up to and including the Ta152 and the Me 109-G10 (not to mention the superlative 262) cannot match either a 1942 SpitV nor a 1943 Spit IX nor a 1944 Spit XIV? What about the Spit I? Will the leather boys risk their hot rods against a Spit I? Really; me thinks the wobbles protesteth too much..... Obviously Brits should only be limited to Hurris (but only with 303's); because we're so over reachingly Uber!
The CT rarly put in the Ta152 Me 109G10 Me262 Fw 190A9, and when they do its flying agenst the D pony and typh and temp.
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Originally posted by TrueKill
The CT rarly put in the Ta152 Me 109G10 Me262 Fw 190A9, and when they do its flying agenst the D pony and typh and temp.
Very true. In the MA you can have G10s, Doras and the like flying after Spits, but in the CT the Axis is typically using G6s and 190s - as in the present setup.
- oldman
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Originally posted by humble
Storch I have my elv and airleon (sp?:)) mapped to the "hat" on back of throttle...my X-45 hats are going so I got an X-52...rudder toggle much better then "twisty" IMO. If you you do watch the MA clip you'll see once I get em all on my 6 (which is where I want em SA wise) I auto trim....never touch anything but elv trim after that...I think there are 3 or 4 places where I might have lost the bird on "combat" trim...especially when I'm in the climbing right hander hanging the prop on the 205 and rudder over the other way on him....earlier clip shows 109F in all kinds of "free fall" basically the bird is stalled...but under control....now if I had trim being input to "recover" the bird it would spin for sure....you'll be amazed how much better the birds fly (zeke also) without Combat Trim....
aileron!! (airleon must be a french or spanish flying lion) :D I'm slightly handicapprd as i'm missing about 1/2 of my right thumb so the joystick hats are useless to me. still haven't looked at those films I just pranced in from the shop but I will look at them later. thanks.
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Ouch....no wonder your so crumpy....:p
All you really need is elevator....rest is secondary...just auto trim bird at speed you like or before you rumble and it'll be fine...
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Originally posted by storch
aileron!! (airleon must be a french or spanish flying lion) :D I'm slightly handicapprd as i'm missing about 1/2 of my right thumb so the joystick hats are useless to me. still haven't looked at those films I just pranced in from the shop but I will look at them later. thanks.
Well Igrew up in the hood....Air Leon is Jordans 2nd cousin on his nephews side....I think:)
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Originally posted by storch
aileron!! (airleon must be a french or spanish flying lion) :D I'm slightly handicapprd as i'm missing about 1/2 of my right thumb so the joystick hats are useless to me. still haven't looked at those films I just pranced in from the shop but I will look at them later. thanks.
Tried Track IR Vector Storch ? It's very good . I can't use it personally , as I'm too used to hats, but if wasn't a long term hat user , I think I could adjust to it
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Originally posted by soda72
Any mappings for the x52?
Has anyone been able to use the second hat switch with the x52?
I have mine second hat working fine Soda. Ill try to catch you online and see what you're having issues with.
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Originally posted by VWE
Redd, you take any varient of the 109 in the CT up tonight and I'll go grab a Spit5... and I want you to show me how un uber the Spit5 is by whacking me over and over again cause I'll not be able to compete with you.
Ok I'm ready now , based on recent flight testing , I will choose the G10.
Cyu in there ;)
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Originally posted by Redd
Tried Track IR Vector Storch ? It's very good . I can't use it personally , as I'm too used to hats, but if wasn't a long term hat user , I think I could adjust to it
I tried the earlier version track IR but it made me feel like I had spent the weekend listening to my mother in law.
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How DO you work the views?
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Originally posted by humble
How DO you work the views?
the hats on the throttle for my level views I use the thumb one. for my up views I use the index finger one the only buttons I use on the top of the joystick is the b button for wep which I work with my right index finger.
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I mapped the "pinkie" switch as my "up" view...so I get 2 sets of views from the 1 hat....you could use the "thumb" hat for level...pinkie or such adds up on same hat...and have index hat on throttle for trim....
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I fire primaries with pinky and secondaries with D on throttle. both is the traditional trigger on the joystick. trim I assigned to the rotaries. roll is index and pitch is thumb. rudder trim I left on the keyboard J, L keys.
if it wasn't for the x45 I couldn't play this game.....maybe I should sue saitek! :D
I also have CH rudder peds. not that any of this helps much. :D
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Thats how I have my CH stuff set up humble, pinky is "up" thumb hat on joystick is level views and hat on throttle is elev and roll trim.
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LOL, you guys and your sigs....
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thumb rotor = elevator trim
front rotor = rudder trim
rudder rocker = aileron trim
the hats are for viewing, one is regular views and the other is for zoom control & now TrackIR control
anyone else have issues since a patch or two with centering the ball with rudder trim? it use to be rock solid, able to slide it into the center spot and it would stay, drift out slightly after awhile but could then "trim" it back. Now it seems hyper sensitive, hard to get in the center and does not stay there, swings in and out unless you have a "X" command running the show in an auto mode
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Originally posted by Eagler
thumb rotor = elevator trim
front rotor = rudder trim
rudder rocker = aileron trim
the hats are for viewing, one is regular views and the other is for zoom control & now TrackIR control
anyone else have issues since a patch or two with centering the ball with rudder trim? it use to be rock solid, able to slide it into the center spot and it would stay, drift out slightly after awhile but could then "trim" it back. Now it seems hyper sensitive, hard to get in the center and does not stay there, swings in and out unless you have a "X" command running the show in an auto mode
yup that's why I mapped the rudder back to the keyboard it wouldn't stay put when I had it mapped to the rocker.
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Originally posted by Grits
LOL, you guys and your sigs....
:D