Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Pongo on April 26, 2005, 11:50:35 AM
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70 % of americans thought Iraq behind 9/11 2 years after the attack (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A32862-2003Sep5?language=printer)
and nearly 4 years after 911 I wonder how many still think that Iraq was involved?
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He was to blame for the SARS outbreak, last year's Tsunami and the Challenger space shuttle crash as well, didn't you get the memo?
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70% of canadians believe whatever they read?
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A better question would be
How many Americans give a rat's bellybutton what a canadian thinks?
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Originally posted by Yeager
70% of canadians believe whatever they read?
i agree american press sux :D
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Originally posted by Raider179
A better question would be
How many Americans give a rat's bellybutton what a canadian thinks?
That depends on the Canadian. ;)
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Canadians aside it was funny to watch from the outside how easily the majority of Americans were led to believe about Terroism,Iraq and WMD's. Certinly didn't work in the same way for Blair and the British. Whch will be suprising if Blair gets re-elected. Sure alot more will come out during their election.
...-Gixer
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Originally posted by Raider179
A better question would be
How many Americans give a rat's bellybutton what a canadian thinks?
Well there was those 33,000 airline passengers when the airspace lockdown came.
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Originally posted by Yeager
70% of canadians believe whatever they read?
are you saying that the poll was a lie? or that the article is a lie?
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Originally posted by Torque
Well there was those 33,000 airline passengers when the airspace lockdown came.
Cool, you were personally involved in that?
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I appreciate Canada as our northern neighbor and I ain't afraid to say it!
I'm updating our upstairs bathroom and shopped recently for bathroom fixtures. Just about ALL of the popular manufacturers- Price Pfister, Delta, Moen, etc - all manufacture the stuff offshore now.
I was very happy to find something made by an North American manufacturer - Aquadis, of Quebec. The quality is obvious (all metal construction; no cheap plastic) and though it was a bit more expensive, I was happy to pay the Canadians who produced such quality.
Have a good day, eh.
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The title of the link is grossly misleading.
The article doesn't say 70% of Americans think Iraq is behind the attack.
7 out of 10 said they believed Iraq "had a role" Maybe the hijackers spent the nigh in bagdad once. That could mean "Had a role"
Sixty-nine percent of Americans said they thought it at least likely that Hussein was involved in the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, according to the latest Washington Post poll.
Likely is the key word. Also, how do we know how the exact question is worded. You know full well how those polling questions are worded.
It could have been something as vague as: Do you think it is the least bit likely that Iraq was involved in the 9/11 attacks.
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Originally posted by Steve
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7 out of 10 said they believed Iraq "had a role" Maybe the hijackers spent the nigh in bagdad once. That could mean "Had a role"
Possibly the most specious rationalisation I've ever read on here. Give that man a prize.
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specious
Forgive my poor education(it took me 5 years to get a 4 year degree) I do not recognize the word below. Would you please educate my wretched mind?
specious
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Originally posted by Steve
Forgive my poor education(it took me 5 years to get a 4 year degree) I do not recognize the word below. Would you please educate my wretched mind?
Deceptively pleasing or attractive
Apparently right; superficially fair, just, or correct, but not so in reality
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Watch an episode of Jaywalking on the Tonite Show with Jay Leno and all faith in humanity will be further eroded.
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The poll questions were in the link steve.
So you can come up with a weird excuse or you can really read the article.
How likely is it that Saddam Hussein was personally involved in
the September 11 terrorist attacks ?
69 % said likley or very likley.
two days after the attack the same question was pegged at 78%
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Originally posted by Raider179
A better question would be
How many Americans give a rat's bellybutton what a canadian thinks?
Haha, I love knowing that people of your nature still exist, hahaha. Thanks for making my day, sorry for interupting your soaps, you may continue,.
lol, what a guy. hahaha.
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This view is changed depending on who's arguing what point. 49% of America was smart enough to realize Bush needed to be replaced, but 79% of America is dumb enough to actually believe Sadaam was behind the bombings.
Blah blah blah. Take a poll, make it prove your point, write an article for the times. blah blah blah.
A better question would be: do you believe that neither Sadaam nor the Iraqi government had any role in terrorism. Then you could laugh at the obscene paranoia of a much larger percentage of Americans (and Canadians). Either that or ignore the question to debate the definition of terrorism.
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Saddam didn't know a thing about 911. He would have warned us if he had.
It's common knowledge that he was trying to turn over a new leaf after GW1 and he really was just a cooperative, misunderstood man.
Saddam awoke the morning of 911 just as shocked and speechless as I did since his own intelligence assets were busy ensuring compliance with UN 1441.
Saddam is a victim.
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Originally posted by airbumba
Haha, I love knowing that people of your nature still exist, hahaha. Thanks for making my day, sorry for interupting your soaps, you may continue,.
lol, what a guy. hahaha.
lol no problem but after all it was in response to a stupid post in the first place. a 2 year old poll with no new data. wonder why I said it still?
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Too bad Saddam is Muslim...he would have been a shoe-in for Pope.
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So you can come up with a weird excuse or you can really read the article.
Let's cut to the chase: plow off you leftist whacko.
personally involved
This phrase is completely subjective. I'm not making excuses for anything. I'm pointing out that the poll is a long way from scientific. Shove that in your pipe and smoke it.
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Hey Steve how you always end up resorting to the F88k you type response?
Calm down and grow some manners huh?
Just an observation pal.
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What chase. Im hitting you in the head with your own stupidity.
A chase would imply there was some contest and this is no contest.
Im rubbing your face in your own feces you sorry brain washed clown.
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Not a very good effort Manblow... err pongo. Like I said, the poll is entirely subjective and a long way from scientific. You could admit this, but then you won't because you'd be admitting that I am correct.
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Skyperson, save your obsessions for Toad, please.
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Originally posted by Pongo
70 % of americans thought Iraq behind 9/11 2 years after the attack (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A32862-2003Sep5?language=printer)
and nearly 4 years after 911 I wonder how many still think that Iraq was involved?
Ok.
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spe·cious Audio pronunciation of "specious" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (spshs)
adj.
1. Having the ring of truth or plausibility but actually fallacious: a specious argument.
2. Deceptively attractive.
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Originally posted by Steve
Not a very good effort Manblow... err pongo. Like I said, the poll is entirely subjective and a long way from scientific. You could admit this, but then you won't because you'd be admitting that I am correct.
No it wasnt. Your hiding behind that cause you a winey brainwashed coward. But the question was specific and I posted it exaclty to you. A 1000 person random sample is a very scientific sample. The rest of the questions are in link in the article.
The only thing thats not scientific is your hatefull disgusting response to the simple truth of the same poll questions over 4 polls in a time frame spanning days after 911 and the last one 2 years after.
Easy to see how people could believe it though. the alternative is to face the hate and insults of people like yourself. Believe it or your a coward. Believe it or your a queer. Believe it or your a terrorist lover.
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So whats yer point Pongo? People are silly and believe silly things? Americans are stupid? Steve is an imbecile? Just come right out and say it. Why beat around the BOOSH.
Lame post, go pick on someone else.
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Just always remember that if a pedestrian is ran over in the street it is not the driver`s fault. It is the car that is at fault. Direct contact and all.
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No it wasnt. Your hiding behind that cause you a winey brainwashed coward
You go farther and farther on tilt.. it is beginning to entertain me, don't stop now. You don't like it but the fact remains that highly subjective language was used in the poll questions. I'm not sure why you care really, other than the fact that you're an ultra melon.
I'm not sure what you mean about being brainwahsed either. I don't recall stating in this thread whether Iraq was involved or not. Of course, this is easily explained after all. You simply like to invent things to support your jaded view of things.
If you really think the phrase "had a role" is scientific and not subjective then there's not much point in continuing this conversation as logic is completely beyond your meager mind.... or maybe you're so clouded by noodle envy(of the US being center stage to the world) that your mind fails you.
I have met many Canadains in my travels, mostly when I played junior A and I can say that you're well on your way to being only the second one I've managed to dislike conversing with. The first one was a guy (I think he played for the Quebec Remparts) who knocked me out blindside at a tourney in the Soo. I think the first guy was probably more worthy of a conversation than you are, I certainly enjoyed the concussion more. lol
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Originally posted by Lizard3
So whats yer point Pongo? People are silly and believe silly things? Americans are stupid? Steve is an imbecile? Just come right out and say it. Why beat around the BOOSH.
Lame post, go pick on someone else.
Enlighten us Liz, why did you think that Sadam Huesien was behind 911?
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Steve your full of it. The question was clear, the sample was signifigant the poll was run 4 times over 2 years and you dont like the answer. You said they dont tell us the question I showed you the exact question you blew up like a whiny little clown.
All the rest of your diatrab is just transparent diversion from the facts of the situation.
Keep saying the same thing long enough though and you will convice 70% of this board.
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Pongo, you're an incurable salamander and dipchit.
First off, I could care less what the poll says. It could have been talking about Iraq's role in inventing the twinkie. I merely pointed out that the title of the article was misleading because there was very subjective language in the question. I just can't help you if you are just plain old too stupid to recognize this.
We both know it's because you dislike US policy and activity regarding Iraq because you have world power envy.
Look, I know it must be frutrating for a real world puss like you to have to swallow the fact that Canada is impotent militarily. I'm sure you've swallowed lots of stuff from less impotent things.
Anyway, my point is that you need to get over it, Canada is a fantastic country peopled largely by wonderful folk, you being excluded from this group of course, possessing some of the most beautiful countryside, a free market economy, a good life style for residents who want one, great outdoor activites... etc etc etc. Love your country for the great things it has to offer(they are many!), don't hate my country for things your country lacks.
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this is the best thread in days...
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Originally posted by Raider179
lol no problem but after all it was in response to a stupid post in the first place. a 2 year old poll with no new data. wonder why I said it still?
Ya, it don't mean that much to me either. Just stickin my head in every now and then. Picks up a bad day sometimes, .
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Originally posted by Steve
snipped..
I have met many Canadains in my travels, mostly when I played junior A and I can say that you're well on your way to being only the second one I've managed to dislike conversing with. The first one was a guy (I think he played for the Quebec Remparts) who knocked me out blindside at a tourney in the Soo. I think the first guy was probably more worthy of a conversation than you are, I certainly enjoyed the concussion more. lol
Hey Steve, long time no see,.
I hate the Ramparts as well. Didn't know you played the dentist's preferred sport, wtg .
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Originally posted by midnight Target
this is the best thread in days...
Not really, Lizard said it best.
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Originally posted by Steve
Pongo, you're an incurable salamander and dipchit.
Look, I know it must be frutrating for a real world puss like you to have to swallow the fact that Canada is impotent militarily. I'm sure you've swallowed lots of stuff from less impotent things.
Where's Skuzzy?
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Originally posted by Gixer
Canadians aside it was funny to watch from the outside how easily the majority of Americans were led to believe about Terroism,Iraq and WMD's. Certinly didn't work in the same way for Blair and the British. Whch will be suprising if Blair gets re-elected. Sure alot more will come out during their election.
...-Gixer
Imagine the UN stalling, and allowing the WMD's to be trafficked to other countries. We wouldn't want to post that now, would we?
Karaya
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Originally posted by Pongo
70 % of americans thought Iraq behind 9/11 2 years after the attack (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A32862-2003Sep5?language=printer)
and nearly 4 years after 911 I wonder how many still think that Iraq was involved?
The "WashIN gton Post" says it all.
How's the free Health Care working out Pongo. I met a couple of Canadians and they hate it.
Karaya
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Where's Skuzzy?
I'm sure you'll be calling him in the morning. Gonna tell your mom too? You got picked on a lot as a child, didn't you? run and tell mommy!
:lol
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
How's the free Health Care working out Pongo. I met a couple of Canadians and they hate it.
Karaya
actually its great...
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Imagine the UN stalling, and allowing the WMD's to be trafficked to other countries. We wouldn't want to post that now, would we?
Karaya
Saddam was a "menace" to his OWN country and those in the immediate area around Iraq...
he was no threat you, but he did threaten your INTERESTS, eventually you will grasp that concept...
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Originally posted by Mini D
This view is changed depending on who's arguing what point. 49% of America was smart enough to realize Bush needed to be replaced, but 79% of America is dumb enough to actually believe Sadaam was behind the bombings.
Get it right! 49% of those who took the time to vote voted for someone who couldn't come up with a campain better than "I'm not Bush".
51% that chose to vote voted for Bush because they either thought he was a good president or that he was the lesser of 2 evils.
As far as the 79% that thought Sadaam was behind 9/11 I just wonder who they polled because I don't know of ANYONE around here who actually believes that.
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Originally posted by SLO
Saddam was a "menace" to his OWN country and those in the immediate area around Iraq...
he was no threat you, but he did threaten your INTERESTS, eventually you will grasp that concept...
Actually, France, Germany and Russia made more off of Iraq than anyone else. I never said he was a threat to the US. The above countries had more "Interest" in Iraq. The gravytrain ground to a halt.
Oh, at least you are trying to save face on the free health care. LMAO, you guys have to wait 6 months to get a physical. Shovel more watermelon SLO, you do it better than anyone else.
Karaya
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lol
it cant be true, its was a tricky question, it was in the wrong paper, if you ask about it you hate america.
Wonder why so many were brainwashed or self deluded.
Steve implies its inaccurate but he was right here on these boards while it was demonstrated that a huge chunk of americans right here believed every part of it. Steve himself to this very day believes in his heart of hearts that SH had something to do with 911 and it just hasnt been found. People on this board still post regularly that there are signifigant WMD and they just havent been found or they were moved to Syria.
Thier answer..invade syria!
I mean we make allowences for wackos like steve and his terrified squeals but 70% ?increadable.
But not supprising that people that were so effectivly lied to and made fools of dont like to talk about it or even that they try to start passing the story along that it didnt happen at all.
Hell no. No one believed that SH had anything to do with 911..its a left wing media conspiracy to make us look stupid or dishonest or trigger happy..lol
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Amuricans is just dump I guess. Heck we can take the place of Newfie jokes wit youse guys
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Originally posted by Pongo
lol
People on this board still post regularly that there are signifigant WMD and they just havent been found or they were moved to Syria.
Thier answer..invade syria!
I guess some people just don't understand how that might have had anything to do with this.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4487817.stm
In a report to the Security Council, he said he had received a letter from Syria saying full withdrawal was complete (from lebanon) - claims the UN is examining.
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First off that is a two year old poll and it has been discussed on this board before. Second, I dont personally know ANYONE who believes Saddam was part of the 9-11 attacks.
People on this board still post regularly that there are signifigant WMD and they just havent been found
There are a significant amout of chemical weapons that Iraq admitted to having, was verified as having by the UN, but is unaccounted for today. You could verify that for yourself simply by doing searches on the internet.
What was the purpose of bringing up a 2 year old poll that has been discussed before? I think it's just another lame attempt to bash American's by someone who looks down his nose at us.
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Originally posted by Elfie
There are a significant amout of chemical weapons that Iraq admitted to having, was verified as having by the UN, but is unaccounted for today. You could verify that for yourself simply by doing searches on the internet.
Sadly, the internet also has this sort of defeatist pinko liberal report:
While a small number of old, abandoned chemical munitions have been discovered, ISG judges that Iraq unilaterally destroyed its undeclared chemical weapons stockpile in 1991. There are no credible indications that Baghdad resumed production of chemical munitions thereafter, a policy ISG attributes to Baghdad’s desire to see sanctions lifted, or rendered ineffectual, or its fear of force against it should WMD be discovered.
Comprehensive Report of the Special Advisor to the DCI on Iraq’s WMD (http://www.cia.gov/cia/reports/iraq_wmd_2004/index.html)
The ISG is so sure there's nothing to find that they've given up the search completely this week.
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Originally posted by rpm
Where's Skuzzy?
Thought you knew Steve and Nuke are immune from Skuzzy?
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Originally posted by -dead-
Sadly, the internet also has this sort of defeatist pinko liberal report:
Comprehensive Report of the Special Advisor to the DCI on Iraq’s WMD (http://www.cia.gov/cia/reports/iraq_wmd_2004/index.html)
The ISG is so sure there's nothing to find that they've given up the search completely this week.
UN inspectors verified that certain amounts of chemical weapons and their precursors existed. Now they cant be found, OR verified as having been destroyed. Your link proves what? It does nothing to prove the non existence of these items. Maybe those items were destroyed, maybe not. There is no proof either way.
A quote from your link:
There is an extensive, yet fragmentary and circumstantial body of evidence suggesting that Saddam pursued a strategy to maintain a capability to return to WMD production after sanctions were lifted by preserving assets and expertise. In addition to preserved capability, we have clear evidence of his intent to resume WMD production as soon as sanctions were lifted. All sources suggest that Saddam encouraged compartmentalization and would have discussed something as sensitive as WMD with as few people as possible.
Repeatedly throughout the chemical weapons part of your link it talks about Saddams efforts to maintain the ability to resume his WMD programs as soon as the sanctions were lifted. There is nothing in your link that would lead me to believe Saddam WASNT trying to hide things from the inspectors.
In light of Saddam's efforts to hide what was left of his WMD programs, unless you can show proof that everything was destroyed, imo you have to believe those unaccounted for items still exist.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Oh, at least you are trying to save face on the free health care. LMAO, you guys have to wait 6 months to get a physical. Shovel more watermelon SLO, you do it better than anyone else.
Karaya
Don't know where you get your info sir, but it's way off. My ma's just recently retired from 45 years service as nurse/ hospital dir./ adm./ government liason to health issues , etc, etc. and I've never heard of any numbers like you suggest, nor has she.
We'd both be quite interested in reading any official report you can find that says that, my mother is very curious as to it's author.
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Originally posted by Elfie
UN inspectors verified that certain amounts of chemical weapons and their precursors existed.
Which UN inspectors, UNSCOM or UNMOVIC?
It does nothing to prove the non existence of these items.
You expect them to prove a negative?
There is nothing in your link that would lead me to believe Saddam WASNT trying to hide things from the inspectors.
Twice even?
unless you can show proof that everything was destroyed, imo you have to believe those unaccounted for items still exist.
Not necessarily, chemical and biological weapons tend to have a certain shelf life.
And after billions and couple of years of searching, interviewing, researching etc. ISG has determined that that the WMD were destroyed by the mid 90's. Do you have information that ISG wasn't privy to that makes you question thier findings? If so I recommend you contact the CIA asap.
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Originally posted by Pongo
Enlighten us Liz, why did you think that Sadam Huesien was behind 911?
No Pongo, answer the question. What is your point?
Seriously, did you post all that just to start an argument. Is that what you enjoy doing? It isn't a legitimate thread because all it says is Americans are Stupid. Fact is, we do not hold a monopoly. So, whats yer point? Felt frisky? Pissed at the ex.?
This flamebait crap should be beneath you. Discussing why people around the world believe certain things that are or could be in your opinion false would work, or something along those lines, but to just (almost) come right out and say "AMericanos are STUPID" is retarded on a number of levels. Just because that type of thing, and not just pointed at Americans, goes on everyday here, does not make it right.
Your idea of entertainment is wrong, neighbor.
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Steve himself to this very day believes in his heart of hearts that SH had something to do with 911 and it just hasnt been found.
You are a liar in addition to the other things I've called you. Where, where did I say Hussein was involved in 911?
Steve implies its inaccurate
Liar. I'm not implying anything. I'm outright saying that the text of the question is subjective. Get it?
The poll says 70% yet I don't know a single person who believes this, neither does mighty1. This is the main reason I think the poll is a farce inasmuch that the subjective text caused people to answer the way they did.
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Originally posted by Lizard3
Seriously, did you post all that just to start an argument.
Well,...duh
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Actually, France, Germany and Russia made more off of Iraq than anyone else. I never said he was a threat to the US. The above countries had more "Interest" in Iraq. The gravytrain ground to a halt.
Oh, at least you are trying to save face on the free health care. LMAO, you guys have to wait 6 months to get a physical. Shovel more watermelon SLO, you do it better than anyone else.
Karaya
Who controls the OIL now, you get the 1st answer...too easy I say...
and NO I've never waited 6 months...get this, I actually live here and know HOW it actually works, unlike you I don't get second hand info on this subject, so please refrain from making yourself look even more ignorant...
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I think Saddam was partly responsible.
As low as 0.1% I don't think so as high as 100% I don't think so either.
The thruth is somewhere... don't count on me to say where :)
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Actually, France, Germany and Russia made more off of Iraq than anyone else. I never said he was a threat to the US. The above countries had more "Interest" in Iraq. The gravytrain ground to a halt.
Karaya
Yup, and the US never ever buddied up to a despot when it suited their commercial interests. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. :)
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Originally posted by Raider179
A better question would be
How many Americans give a rat's bellybutton what a canadian thinks?
I do..... oh wait.... no I don't. :D
Woof
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Originally posted by SLO
Who controls the OIL now, you get the 1st answer...too easy I say...
We do... that's why our gas is so cheap. :rolleyes:
Woof
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Originally posted by Elfie
UN inspectors verified that certain amounts of chemical weapons and their precursors existed. Now they cant be found, OR verified as having been destroyed. Your link proves what? It does nothing to prove the non existence of these items. Maybe those items were destroyed, maybe not. There is no proof either way.
A quote from your link:
Repeatedly throughout the chemical weapons part of your link it talks about Saddams efforts to maintain the ability to resume his WMD programs as soon as the sanctions were lifted. There is nothing in your link that would lead me to believe Saddam WASNT trying to hide things from the inspectors.
In light of Saddam's efforts to hide what was left of his WMD programs, unless you can show proof that everything was destroyed, imo you have to believe those unaccounted for items still exist.
If the ISG doesn't have a vested interest in finding significant (or even the rather smaller sounding "certain") amounts of unaccounted for chemical weapons, then who does? And yet they say after a couple of years of searching with infinitely better access to the country and the key personnel than the UN inspectors, that Iraq unilaterally destroyed its undeclared chemical weapons stockpile in 1991. If the people with the biggest vested interest in finding WMDs and proving Saddam was hiding them have admitted defeat, I suspect there is absolutely compelling evidence that there are no WMDs left. That's actual compelling evidence, not the flimsy nonsense the US & UK used as an excuse to invade.
I note the goalposts seem to be fashioned from finest Birnam wood - as they've upped and moved completely in the second part of the post — we started out with significant amounts of chemical weapons, which have seeemingly shrunk to certain amounts, and now to Saddam retaining the ability to start up his WMD programs again when sanctions were lifted.
This last is a lot more wishy-washy: who can actually say one way or the other if he retained his WMD-making ability or not, seeing as he did not attempt to rebuild it? lest we forget, this is from the same lot that claimed he had WMDs ready to go. Pardon me for treating this with an extra side salad of cynicism. Also his initial WMD programs relied heavily on the US & UK governments' support: would he still have that? And if he had not retained his WMD experts, by killing them off or letting them go to work for the highest bidder, the US & UK would be the first to cry foul.
Either way, the issue of him possibly retaining the ability to make new WMDs after sanctions is a far more tenuous excuse to invade, which — let's face it — is what the whole WMD issue is about. The rest of the UNSC wanted UNMOVIC to check thoroughly before anyone said Iraq had WMDs or not; and the US & UK could not get a resolution to invade because of that. Iraq actually having hidden, viable WMDs was really the only semi-valid political/legal reason to pre-emptively invade.
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And after billions and couple of years of searching, interviewing, researching etc. ISG has determined that that the WMD were destroyed by the mid 90's. Do you have information that ISG wasn't privy to that makes you question thier findings? If so I recommend you contact the CIA asap.
Even the ISG only assumes the chemicals were destroyed. They found no hard evidence to support that claim.
Yes, chemical and bio weapons do have a shelf life. How long that shelf life is depends on the type of chemical weapon and the purity of the chemicals used in making them. IF none of these materials are found in the next 10 - 15 years, then I will believe they were possibly destroyed in the mid '90's, then I will no longer care if they werent destroyed since even the most optomistic shelf life will be expired.
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That's actual compelling evidence
Just because people give up looking for them does not constitute compelling evidence imo.
we started out with significant amounts of chemical weapons, which have seeemingly shrunk to certain amounts
Just different wording used to describe the same quantities of unaccounted for munitions/precurors.
This last is a lot more wishy-washy: who can actually say one way or the other if he retained his WMD-making ability or not, seeing as he did not attempt to rebuild it? lest we forget, this is from the same lot that claimed he had WMDs ready to go.
It's not from the "same lot that claimed he had WMDs ready to go". Your ISG source clearly states how Saddam was trying to preserve the basics of his WMD programs. He retained scientists in-country, he kept detailed records of dual-use equiptment, kept dual-use research going.
In fact, Saddam at one point asked his scientists how quickly they could set up to produce mustard gas again. The answer was 6 months, 3 - 4 days if they didnt mind sacrificing the equiptment. Again, from your ISG link.
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Originally posted by Elfie
Yes, chemical and bio weapons do have a shelf life. How long that shelf life is depends on the type of chemical weapon and the purity of the chemicals used in making them. IF none of these materials are found in the next 10 - 15 years, then I will believe they were possibly destroyed in the mid '90's, then I will no longer care if they werent destroyed since even the most optomistic shelf life will be expired.
Can you name any biological or chemical agent that was produced by Iraq prior to the verified destruction of their respective production facilities that wouldn't already have been past it's shelf life in 2003?
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Originally posted by Momus--
Can you name any biological or chemical agent that was produced by Iraq prior to the verified destruction of their respective production facilities that wouldn't already have been past it's shelf life in 2003?
Yes, both VX gas and Mustard gas would still be viable, depending on the purity of the chemicals used to produce them. The VX gas even with the purest of chemicals will have it's shelf life expire soon I think. Mustard gas can remain viable for much longer. The precursors that are unaccounted for could be used to make *fresh* munitions iirc.
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Originally posted by airbumba
Don't know where you get your info sir, but it's way off. My ma's just recently retired from 45 years service as nurse/ hospital dir./ adm./ government liason to health issues , etc, etc. and I've never heard of any numbers like you suggest, nor has she.
We'd both be quite interested in reading any official report you can find that says that, my mother is very curious as to it's author.
Cool. Here goes. A buddy's father complained of pain near his "kidney area". he went in, they told him and I quote "Your appointment is in six months". Three days later he was in the Emergency Room with Kidney Failure.
It's flawed, worse than some care to admit.
Karaya
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Dunno about healthcare.... I dig Canada. Love to fish there.
Bumba, how's that project comin along? Good to see ya.
SLO...... hand......... hey bro. :)
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
It's flawed, worse than some care to admit.
Karaya
Compared to what?
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Compared to what?
Take yer pick.
You guys wanna start bashing threads. Take some medicine and like it.
Karaya
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Masher, you know I side w/ your politics mostly and agree w/ your views.... and I mean no offense but Thrawn didn't start this thread.
I know you don't like foreigners bashing the US and neither do I... fact is Canada is probably the next best thing after the US, has more fishin(sirry I love to fish), and has a nice standard of living.
Ever bag a Canadian chick? They aim to please.
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Originally posted by Lizard3
No Pongo, answer the question. What is your point?
Seriously, did you post all that just to start an argument. Is that what you enjoy doing? It isn't a legitimate thread because all it says is Americans are Stupid. Fact is, we do not hold a monopoly. So, whats yer point? Felt frisky? Pissed at the ex.?
This flamebait crap should be beneath you. Discussing why people around the world believe certain things that are or could be in your opinion false would work, or something along those lines, but to just (almost) come right out and say "AMericanos are STUPID" is retarded on a number of levels. Just because that type of thing, and not just pointed at Americans, goes on everyday here, does not make it right.
Your idea of entertainment is wrong, neighbor.
I dont know what you read.
" Nearly 2 years later
70 % of americans thought Iraq behind 9/11 2 years after the attack
and nearly 4 years after 911 I wonder how many still think that Iraq was involved?"
there is what I wrote.
Ill tell my ex wife you asked after her.
You want to take a shot at my kids too buddy?
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Originally posted by Elfie
Yes, both VX gas and Mustard gas would still be viable, depending on the purity of the chemicals used to produce them. The VX gas even with the purest of chemicals will have it's shelf life expire soon I think. Mustard gas can remain viable for much longer. The precursors that are unaccounted for could be used to make *fresh* munitions iirc.
Iraq never succeeded in making VX in any significant quantity though:
Producing significant stocks of VX for use on weapons that would still be viable today would have required an advance in CW technology that Iraq did not demonstrate...Indeed, the glass-lined production equipment turned over to UNSCOM by Iraq in 1996 was intended for large-scale VX production, but it had never been used. In addition, the fact that UNSCOM conducted numerous inspections of ammunition depots, chemical production plants, and potential storage areas, using some of the most sensitive chemical detection technology available, and found no trace of CW agent minimizes the likelihood that Iraq maintains any significant stockpile of VX weapons.
As for mustard gas, I think the threat is being overstated:
The other issue is the mustard-filled artillery shells. Iraq declared to UNSCOM that it had a stockpile of 13,500 such shells on the eve of the Persian Gulf War. UNSCOM supervised the destruction of 12,747 of these shells, and Iraq declared that the remaining shells had been destroyed by aerial bombardment of two storage sites during Desert Storm. UNSCOM could find no evidence of any destroyed 155 mm shells at the main storage area, but it did discover four intact artillery shells lying on the ground in one of the storage sites. The mustard was tested and found to be 94-97 percent pure—a viable weapon. Given the purity of the mustard, UNSCOM made finding the remaining shells a priority.
Iraq denies having retained these shells; but regardless, a few hundred 155 mm mustard shells have little military value on the modern battlefield. A meaningful CW attack using artillery requires thousands of rounds. Retention of such a limited number of shells makes no sense and cannot be viewed as a serious threat.
http://www.armscontrol.org/act/2000_06/iraqjun.asp (http://www.armscontrol.org/act/2000_06/iraqjun.asp)
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Iraq never succeeded in making VX in any significant quantity though:
1.5 tons of what they did make is unaccounted for. When you consider that it only takes one small drop to kill you, (10 milligrams), I would call 1.5 tons significant.
Mustard gas isnt nearly as dangerous as VX gas is. I am far less concerned about the whereabouts of 550 artillery shells filled with Mustard gas than I am about 1.5 tons of VX gas.
UNSCOM estimated that by 1991, Iraq could have produced between 50 and 100 tons of VX gas. By 1998, UNSCOM estimated that Iraq was capable of producing 200 tons. Iraq at first told UNSCOM that it had only produced 240 kilograms of VX, but in 1996 admitted that it had produced 3.9 tons. Iraq provided documents stating that 2.4 tons of VX were produced in 1988 and the remainder in 1990. Iraq explained this low volume by claiming that it had scaled-up all its chemical weapons processes at al-Muthanna except VX, a claim UNSCOM rejected as incompatible with Iraq's massive R&D efforts.
http://www.iraqwatch.org/profiles/chemical.html
Iraq admits to making 3.9 tons of the stuff of which 1.5 tons is still unaccounted for. This stuff needs to be accounted for, it's far to dangerous not make sure it's accounted for.
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I'm just curious but why the hell does a Canadian care what the US and it's citizens think in the first place? It's clearly obvious the position that the Canadians have taken. So in the end this is clearly a troll. The original poster is simply looking to start a fight.
Do us all a favor. Take your rotten bait and go fish somewhere else. We already know your position when it comes to the subject and there's really no need to discuss it anymore.
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For example,
detainee debriefs allowed ISG to confirm the use of
the chemical agent VX during the Iran-Iraq war and
the use of nerve agent in Karbala during the Shia
uprising following the 1991 war.
http://www.cia.gov/cia/reports/iraq_wmd_2004/addenda.pdf
I think Iraq would have had to manufacture significant amounts of VX gas in order to be able to deploy it on a battlefield.
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Originally posted by Cobra412
I'm just curious but why the hell does a Canadian care what the US and it's citizens think in the first place? It's clearly obvious the position that the Canadians have taken. So in the end this is clearly a troll. The original poster is simply looking to start a fight.
Do us all a favor. Take your rotten bait and go fish somewhere else. We already know your position when it comes to the subject and there's really no need to discuss it anymore.
Gotta say I agree with that, especially since that exact same article was linked to and discussed a long time ago on these very same boards.
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Originally posted by Pongo
I dont know what you read.
" Nearly 2 years later
70 % of americans thought Iraq behind 9/11 2 years after the attack
and nearly 4 years after 911 I wonder how many still think that Iraq was involved?"
there is what I wrote.
Ill tell my ex wife you asked after her.
You want to take a shot at my kids too buddy?
Uh, I don't know what I read either. Jeez, flowers and love are all over your post.
Pongo, I didn't ask after yer ex, I asked after YOU.
You going to answer my question?
Whats the point Pongo?
If you hate America, Americans and all things south of your border so much, why don't you just ignore us. We don't hate you.
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hahahaahhaah ben johnson sux!!!!!!!
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Originally posted by Lizard3
Uh, I don't know what I read either. Jeez, flowers and love are all over your post.
Pongo, I didn't ask after yer ex, I asked after YOU.
You going to answer my question?
Whats the point Pongo?
If you hate America, Americans and all things south of your border so much, why don't you just ignore us. We don't hate you.
Must have been another liz that wrote this."So, whats yer point? Felt frisky? Pissed at the ex.? "
Your attack has been answered.
Do you have another attack to make or are you just going to recycle the same one?
Why do you feel so strongly about the topic? Does it make you feel personlly stupid that so many americans believed this? Its not a supprise or anything, many here on this board believed it and attacked those of us that questioned it just like you are atacking me now.
As to why anyone outside the US should care about this, well because that 70% was used to go to war. Period.
It was an absolute necessity for this missconception to exist. Why? Because Bushes mandate to wage war from congress was to wage a war on "terror"
The ability to create a missled ground swell of support based on missleading associations of 911 and Iraq gave Bush the support he needed to sell the invasion of Iraq as part of the war on Terror.
Anyone against it was against the war on terrror.
Has that postion changed?
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Again how does that affect you? Your not there putting your arse on the line over there. Your sitting at home year around in your comfy lounge chair. Oh wait it's affecting your gas prices.
Oh and we can't forget now you care about the innocent citizens of Iraq and whether they might die. Disregard the fact they were dying in droves under the old regime and by the order of the old regime if anyone spoke out against them. I wonder how well such a policy would go in Canada if your government killed or jailed you for just speaking out against them. Wait I forgot you don't have to worry about that because your free to speak your own mind even if it is against your goverment. Must be nice to have that freedom isn't it?
If your really that ignorant to think the US government made a decision based on a poll to invade Iraq you might need a reality check. Yeah they do listen to the voices of America but they are far from the deciding factor of whether or not to go to war. Especially considering the average American knows little to nothing about the threats that are actually out there. I can say without a doubt that very few Americans are even aware that their communities may have people in them that have links to known terrorists.
Simple fact is yes it is possible Iraq could have very well been involved in such an attack. Is it likely they were involved, no. You could sit here and post a thousand polls but if the people responding to the polls know little to nothing about the subject then the poll is worthless.
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Originally posted by Pongo
Must have been another liz that wrote this."So, whats yer point? Felt frisky? Pissed at the ex.? "
Your attack has been answered.
Do you have another attack to make or are you just going to recycle the same one?
Why do you feel so strongly about the topic? Does it make you feel personlly stupid that so many americans believed this? Its not a supprise or anything, many here on this board believed it and attacked those of us that questioned it just like you are atacking me now.
As to why anyone outside the US should care about this, well because that 70% was used to go to war. Period.
It was an absolute necessity for this missconception to exist. Why? Because Bushes mandate to wage war from congress was to wage a war on "terror"
The ability to create a missled ground swell of support based on missleading associations of 911 and Iraq gave Bush the support he needed to sell the invasion of Iraq as part of the war on Terror.
Anyone against it was against the war on terrror.
Has that postion changed?
OOOOOOO! Attack!(?) LOL
I think you just explained that what yer really pissed about is that us merikons were lied to and despite all the evidence presented to us by all you concerned folks we still (70%) believe the lie. That really gets yer goat? Not only that, but us retards actually voted the lier BACK into office. Is that what yer sayin?
I think you just wanted to start some flamefest crap, for whatever motivation. Pongo, I've frequently disagreed with some of you opinions and somewhat with your methodology but this is goofy. Step up out of the muck and clean yer shoes off.
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Originally posted by Lizard3
OOOOOOO! Attack!(?) LOL
I think you just explained that what yer really pissed about is that us merikons were lied to and despite all the evidence presented to us by all you concerned folks we still (70%) believe the lie. That really gets yer goat? Not only that, but us retards actually voted the lier BACK into office. Is that what yer sayin?
Ummm arent you pissed about it too? :D
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Originally posted by Silat
Ummm arent you pissed about it too? :D
Stop stirring the pot! :D
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Originally posted by Silat
Ummm arent you pissed about it too? :D
In a word, no.
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Originally posted by VOR
Saddam didn't know a thing about 911. He would have warned us if he had.
It's common knowledge that he was trying to turn over a new leaf after GW1 and he really was just a cooperative, misunderstood man.
Saddam awoke the morning of 911 just as shocked and speechless as I did since his own intelligence assets were busy ensuring compliance with UN 1441.
Saddam is a victim.
Where exactly do you get your information?
How do you know how Saddam felt about it on 911?
What the heck makes you think he'd warn us, after we went into Iraq in 91? That's plain ol silly. sorry but it is.
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ewwwwwwwww Animal, that treble hook is gonna hurt, considering that it is stuck in the lining on the bottom of your stomach.. then how to get it out of your throat without catching is gonna be real hard as well.
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Originally posted by Steve
ewwwwwwwww Animal, that treble hook is gonna hurt, considering that it is stuck in the lining on the bottom of your stomach.. then how to get it out of your throat without catching is gonna be real hard as well.
Spits out large bass hook. You're right ;-) I've got a teflon coated lining. ;-) I just don;t judge the bait well.
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Seems pretty mad. While my post didnt seem mad to me.
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Originally posted by Pongo
Seems pretty mad. While my post didnt seem mad to me.
Who me?
I'm not at all mad. This is trivial dribble to me.
I just find Reps supporters and anti-Clinton people amusing and entertaining. ;-)
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soooo.. other than the occassional use of chemical weapons on his own people and a few inquiries into making nukes and maybe the odd stockpile of WMD's and maybe an invasion of a neighbor every once in a while..... and maybe the torture and deaths of thousands of people a year.... the execution of the entire former cabinet...
besides that... he really wasn't a bad guy... liked Elvis on velvet paintings and was no real danger to the region or the world?
lazs
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How is it tha Al Qaeda is in every muslim country in the world but some how decided no to go into Iraq, jessh you people.
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So who is Mahmdouh Mahmud Salim? He served al Qaeda in a wide variety of roles. He was a financier. He was a religious leader. He was a technology wizard. Most important, perhaps, was Salim's work as an emissary and a weapons procurer. Those last two responsibilities are the ones that most interest U.S. intelligence officials.
....also known as Abu Hajer al Iraqi ("the Iraqi"). According to Steven Simon and Daniel Benjamin, two.Clinton administration National Security Council appointees who wrote "The Sacred Age of Terror," Abu Hajer oversaw al Qaeda's efforts to produce and obtain weapons of mass destruction. ..........officials familiar with intelligence reporting on Abu Hajer, he was one of the few deputies bin Laden trusted to maintain his relationship with Saddam Hussein throughout much of the 1990s.
Without naming him, CIA director George Tenet discussed intelligence on Abu Hajer in a letter to Senator Bob Graham dated October 7, 2002. "We have solid reporting of senior level contact between Iraq and al Qaeda going back a decade . Credible information exists that Iraq and al Qaeda have discussed safe haven and reciprocal nonaggression. . . . We have credible reporting that al Qaeda leaders sought contacts in Iraq who could help them acquire WMD capabilities." U.S. officials now believe that Abu Hajer al Iraqi helped bin Laden negotiate a nonaggression pact with Saddam in 1993.
Some of the intelligence on Abu Hajer al Iraqi's role in WMD procurement came from the trial of four other al Qaeda members who planned the embassy bombings. A former al Qaeda member testifying for the prosecution, Jamal Ahmed al Fadl, told the court how he met Abu Hajer and bin Laden in 1989, and that he accompanied Abu Hajer in 1993 and 1994 on trips to Khartoum, Sudan, where the Iraqi native took him to a facility used to produce chemical weapons. It was al Fadl who labeled Abu Hajer the "best friend" of bin Laden.
The Treasury Department, as it examines al Qaeda's financial network, has come across the name Abu Hajer al Iraqi on numerous occasions. Published reports claim that he shared a bank account in Hamburg, Germany, with a man thought to have provided financing to three of the September 11 hijackers. His name has also been found on documents obtained by U.S. officials investigating Islamic charities and phony businesses believed to be al Qaeda front groups