Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: ~Caligula~ on September 12, 2001, 05:34:00 PM
-
are you still so pro palestinian mrfish?
Can`t You reallize these people are just a bunch of maniacs?If it wasn`t Israel they would be trying to fight some other people just for the sake of fighting?
Can`t You see that these people are so far from being civilised they can hardly be considered humans?
Israely people have the rights to defend themselves from these savages,and should get all the support possible from the rest of the civillised world.
I was against drastic moves untill yesterday,but now I don`t care what happen to them,wether they live or die ,as long as they mean no treat to anyone who just wants to go by their everyday buiseness.
The world neeeds to strike down and rid itself of these idiots.Muslims consider the western world bad,because we forgot god.Well diddly `em.If this is how they conduct themselves they will be dealt with in the same manner.If they don`t care about our childeren why should we give a diddly about theirs.
Germany was a problem that had to be dealt with 60 years ago and was dealt with in the only manner they`d understand.Now it seems it`s the arabs that need a foot up their ass.
We better act before they get their hands on nukes
-
Go away.
-
If you had paid as much attention to all coverage on 'those maniacs' as you call them as you use stupid and irrational terms to describe them even you might have noticed that a lot of Palestinian people were rightfully sorry for both what happened in the US and for the reaction of their countrymen. Lesson: Never let your judgement be clouded by a loudmouth minority. The people who spoke out positively on the terrorist attacks did so because they're tired and numb because of fifty years of what the US have had 1 day, I don't blame them for not being able to rationalize anymore. And finally the ones that danced and celebrated are part of the mindless extremist morons that can be found within all countries/cultures/religions.
-
Oh by the way, the 109 model is porked....
I saw that video.....
-
Caligula - your statement is as ugly as the picture of dancing people who celebrate the massacre.
-
No, I don't think we need to detain Hakeem Olajuwan.
Next question?
-
Originally posted by Fatty:
No, I don't think we need to detain Hakeem Olajuwan.
Next question?
Isn't he in Toronto already? He was traded to the Raptors last I heard.
[ 09-12-2001: Message edited by: Thrawn ]
-
i thought you were pretty lowly but this takes the cake.
pretty sad to think that you would use this tragedy to try to make a point you sad diddly.
when the palestinians dig thru their own rubble piles and dead children and find missile pieces with little u.s. flags and a giant made in usa on them it is no wonder they hate us. can you view that objectively or are you so controlled by your emotions you can't use logic like a pms'ing woman?
that's why i've been calling to end our relationship with israel so that their sins don't end up as our casualties! apparantly it is too late in a big way.
i'm not going to let one 5 second clip from a refugee camp in lebanon dictate my opinion - nor will i let yassar arafat's formal condemnation of the act work to convince me. rather than being a media sheep moron like you, i will see what the facts bring.
the character of the palestinians doesn't make israeli's actions ok. each people have to be judged by their actions. the palestians should be able to exist as sovereign toejamheads without the israelis stealing their country, it's called a principal, and they are always applied objectively.
the kuwaiti's have horrendus policies but that doesn't mean we won't save them from being taken over by sadam.
you really, really make me sick. you should be ashamed that you ran like a coward from the original post only to surface and use a tragedy as your proof in another.
-
You're right Thrawn, it's hard to picture him outside of Houston.
Ah well, extradition I guess?
-
Hi mrfish.
I just wanted to express my deep respect and agreement to your last statement.
WTG!
-
Caligula: You are the spiritual brother of the anti-American 'arab'.
-
Irony is, I'd certainly be very proud to go fight (giving up Med studies) for everyone in and this country itself, including you.
-
Like "The Wobble" asking for his girlfriends investment options after they shot a sweaty shirtless load of 9mm in a dry creek bed when it was like 59 in Dallas, taken from a outside temp equiped truck, and she had won a million dollar lawsuit... I say, what Caligula say's is important, and most likaly true!
Isn't Caligula is still posting WWIIOL and IL2 screens? Fool.
-
You did not answer any of my questions mrfish.
What are You talking about me running away cowardly from the last tread? You gave an answer pretty much saying You have no idea what the solution may be for Israel.You said it was messed up long time ago.SO???
That means the generations of jews that were born there since the founding of israel should just walk into the sea and die,because a bunch of idiots claim their homeland?The arabs say there was no temple in Jerusalem,and the whole history of the jews is BS.
Politics are dirty buiseness,and you may have points of how Israel was founded,and bought by the rich members of the jewish community,but how can You forget that these people have no other land to call home.
Their whole culture is based around the land of Israel.Just pick up the bible to see what I`m talking about.
On the other hand what the palestinians have to claim?
They are not let in any other arab state because they all consider them as amazinhunks.
Israel gave them back territories ,they failed to build any kind of infrastucture,and economy.
Just go to Israel and try to check in a jewish hospital as an arab,you`ll be treated just the same as any other people.Do it the other way ,and You`ll see what happens.
Israel is a civilised nation,the palestinians aren`t.That is the bottom line.
You blame Israel for what just happened in the USA,and with that statement You`re putting Yourself over the US governments judgement of what is most beneficial for the USA and the world.
Israel IS the only ally of the west in that region,and it`s an important region because of the oil.
And that small country have endured lot more terror than any other country in the past 50 years.(ok there are other countries like cambodia and ruanda,but their trouble didn`t span for 50 years).
-
isn`t Creamo still baging on foreign people`s english and running with the 30 dollars he lost in a bet that he was even cheating trying to win?
-
The actual israelic government is acting like a fascistoid Apartheid-regime. Scharon is as mad and fanatic as Milosevic and is breaking human rights every day.
If Israel is not changing its policies it will fall sooner or later.
And I will be not sorry about this...
-
Calligula... :rolleyes:
-
<S> MrFish.
-
Quote "that's why i've been calling to end our relationship with israel so that their sins don't end up as our casualties! apparantly it is too late in a big way. "
You gotta be kidding me. If you think for one moment that our withdrawing support from Isreal would help the situation you crazy. The arabs would pounch on that nation in a heartbeat. They scream about Isreals policies yet continue to ignore factions trying to bargin for land/peace. In the hieght of diplomacy when perhaps issues where being addressed and resolved they attack. Yea THIS is the sign of someone we want to support.
Then your alluding that we brought this on ourselves for our support of Isreal...well guess what... screw them. We know we can count on Isreal when the toejam gets deep...the Arabs just the opposite. That terrorist attack means that Isreal is now going to get plenty of support from us and now those "poor" arabs are going to see thier institutions of so called vengence take hits like they never imagined and I hope it diddlying hurts.
They're going to hate us no matter what we do... so we might as well give them a reason to fear us well. They paint us as tyrants...so be it. Lets show them tyranny on the level of old Rome and destroy them and thiers. I have nothing in my heart BUT hate and distain for any and all who might so even the remotest sympathy for them.
xBAT
-
i don't want any jews to go walk into the sea - i want what the arabs proposed in the 1st place back in the 40s.
i want:
-1 land shared by israeli jews and arabs.
-1 bicameral goverment with representatives both jew and arab based on population demographics
- no more israeli initiated racial segregation
you want:
- the palestinians to be segregated into ghettos like blacks in the 50s
- a racially seperated land, one run by the rich israeli's lving hi on the hog from their multi billion dollar free allowance from their fat uncle and the other run by the natives who were forcibly removed from their land.
i am disgusted with israel because they have conned the u.s. into supporting them even though they practice things that would be illegal and immoral in the u.s.
i don't have any special love for the palestinians, i only have an uneasiness at u.s. standards being set aside in our dealings with israel. the palestinians simply happen to be the people affected.
of course they would support us in the region, we have alienated everyone over there becase we stuffed israel in there against the will of the residents and created a land full of invading foreigners in the midst of an existing culture.
our relationship with one small countries negates our ability to even try to get along with the arabs. you can't say it wouldn't work because it's never even had a chance.
all the talking heads and politicians have been reminding us how great the israelis are all my life but it doesnt change the dirty facts.
batdog - i don't excuse the actions of the palestinians at all; an explanation is a far cry from a justification.
it is, however, pretty naieve of america to think we could fund the oppression of another country without some backlash. we need to be vigilant and don't let the politicians smooth it over and make our minds up for us. we have this problem of believing things just because someone on tv said 'that's the way it should be'.
the problem is that america isn't run by americans it is run by interests. george washington's dream of the 'citizen politician' is dead. our political system is a mess and if left to 'the people' we surely wouldn't have been creating this situation in israel over the years anyway. if anything let tis be a messge to make americas actions match the morality of the people.
we would(as a people) have insisted on an integrated isreali government that included representation for the palestinians and they would have a release valve for their greivances. those are the values we hold sacred why did we think they weren't good enought for the arabs back in the 40s?
it may not be what you want to hear but it is true - they wouldn't be lashing out if we weren't supporting israel.
regardless of the situation in israel and where i stand on that, we need to respond to the current situation. they may have a reason to hate us but the violence is no good and must be punished. they get no leinience from me sir.
in the long term though we need to take our country back and get the hell out of israel -try to divorce yourself from the rhetoric about israel and focus on the facts. all you've heard your whole life is the good, it's no wonder everyone feels the way they do about israel. look at the facts and see if you can't get into the head of one of those people.
what if isreal funded the palestinians to come take you out of your home? what if palestinians fired israeli built rockets into your home one quiet evening and killed your kid? how would you feel about isreal then?
-
Hear hear! <S> MrFish
-
Okay...the CONCEPT of a "united" Isreal w/its orginal arab natives sure does SOUND good. I simply dont see this happening. I see a nation surronded by a foe that attacked them from the onset of thier creation. I agree that our taking of others land to give to them soley was unjust at least... BUT it has been done. They are a nation now that will not just fade away.
I think there have been attempted negotions toward a nation/land for the PLO and its people BUT certain radical groups seem to wish to never see this...
What is the answer... I dont know. I do feel that our support for Isreal is based upon obligation we feel for what we allowed to happen in WW2 somewhat but MAINLY from a practical standpoint that they are the most like us and thus we can deal with them. They are essentialy a WESTERN type nation in the middle od an Arab world. They are our outpost in the Middle east. This region is vital to western civilization at this moment. Yes money has much to do with it but what modern war isnt about economics really?
The Arabs would have to show us, the United States, great support and loyality over a period of time and this would then effect our view on Isreal. Until this happens I do not see us doing anything BUT support that nation.
xBAT
-
i hear ya x-bat. the main reason there are continued hostilities is that these type of solutions have never been pursued.
the solutions put forward are like "i'll give up this if you give up that" "i'll mouse away and miser away as much as i can and you do the same.." all the while, it's usually the u.s. acting as a 'neutral' mediator......
it wouldn't be an easy switch, and in fact might NOT work, but i know i could get behind an effort to establish such a gov't even if it meant u.s. intervention until things smoothed out. it's better than what we've got now.
the only problem is israel would be dissapointed when we didn't give them any special consideration and no back room meetings and under the table deals would tip the scales. the arabs might buy into the proccess if they knew the process was fair. everyone wants to get rich and they would all profit from better u.s. relations.
we as a country just need to say "shhhhh...." to all the soothsayers and opinion shapers whispering in our ear. we need to put down the wine and leg of mutton, silence the jesters and the band and take a long hard look across the 'empire'. america knows what's right we've just been caught up american dreaming and need to take the reins again.
<S> all....even you caligula.
-
Since I have supported a more even-handed look at the Palestinian/Israeli situation along the lines of mrfish, I suppose I should chime in as well even though this is a sensitive issue right with a lot of potential misunderstanding and anger.
First off all, like everyone else here I believe bin Laden and his ilk need to be hunted down and eliminated. I would have no problem beating to death with a baseball bat anyone who had even the remotest conscious participation in this. I miss being in uniform at a time like this. Terrorism is an idiotic way to get serious goals achieved and just leads to more hate and less chance of any peaceful solution to a problem.
However, and not necessarily directly related, the Palestinians have some legitimate issues and we have been squarely involved with the unilateral support of Israel. Their hatred really isn’t a surprise, though I imagine the more sober Palestinians realized how much this attack sets back any hope of achieving their goals. You can argue the tenants of Zionism, the fact there was no Palestinian state (though control under the British mandate didn’t really leave much room for this) when Israel was founded; conventional terrorism from the Stern Gang to the PLO; provocations from bulldozing a residential neighborhood to a suicide bombing at a bus stop; our strongest ally in the region or our only ally because of the special relationship. Who’s right, who’s wrong? It doesn’t really matter. The Palestinians are not going to disappear any time soon, nor are the Israelis (as a nuclear power, I’m not all that afraid of its survival as a nation). Short of exterminating one side or the other, down to the last child, peace will have to come through realistic compromise. I don’t believe our largely one-sided view on who is right and who is wrong for the last 50 years (a view not fully shared throughout the West btw), brings the region any closer to peace. In many ways, our policies have supported the status quo in my opinion. When we have dealt with bin Laden and related players, which is not just good for us but for any moderate influence in the world, I hope we look for a real solution for an equitable peace in the Middle East.
It doesn’t pay to link this attack too tightly to Israel/Palestine, though this is a cornerstone of bin Laden’s hatred of the West. He is just as upset by America’s involvement in the moderate Arab states and sees the spread of Western culture as an evil in its own right. If he had his way, all of the region would be a large Afghanistan and we know what a dark age that reality would be. I imagine we’ll get a lot of support from moderate Arabs throughout the region as we hunt him down because, at the end of the day, he represents more of a threat to them than he does to us. It also seems likely as well (at least for now) that Iraq has played some role in the attack and that is more of a personal hatred from Hussein. I believe, in the same way, that the attack on the Stark wasn’t an accident but rather a response by him to Iran/Contra. Perhaps we have no choice but to finish what we started in Desert Storm.
Anyway, take care of the task at hand then try to set a framework for real peace in the region as we move forward.
Charon
<S!> all
[ 09-13-2001: Message edited by: Charon ]
-
Joint israeli government etc.
You`ve gotto be kidding me,the arabs would never stop anything short of all jews gone from Israel.
That ain`t gonna happen,and the way it`s going it`s gonna be a "either them or us" setuation.I`m not happy about it,but that`s what I see.I wish all could get along,but the arabs stubbornness will never allow that.
-
Are jewish women in Afghanistan allowed to work and wear jeans?
The joint arab-jewish state does sound good in your interpretation. Not as good as joint german-jewish state but good if it could work...
Unfortunately there is no chance for it to work. Palestinians want fundamental religious state.
Some israelis want fundamental religious state too but most are for US-like democracy. Those things are pretty much incompartible.
miko
[ 09-13-2001: Message edited by: miko2d ]
-
I don't link the recent tradgedy with the Isreal/Palestine conflict.
The video of celebrating Palestinians was from East Jeruselem, NOT a refugee camp. This has occured not only there but in other countries around the world.
When bombs go off in diners killing innocent people and in response Isrealies close offices of Palestinians, close borders and install curfews. This is called treacherous.
Preposterous!
My question is and has been, how many tanks/rockets/bombs/bullets do the Isrealies need? I'll help pay for them.