Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: ASTAC on April 28, 2005, 10:44:49 AM
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Bleeding herarted people have made it impossible to disipline a child. Even as parents you can get in trouble if someone percieves your actions against your own child unacceptable...
If I had behaved like this in school..there would have been no police, but I wouldn't have been able to sit down anymore..
And people have the nerve to say the police went too far?
Well this is the last staw for me..our society is lost and urecoverable..The USA is in ruin. When my enlistment is up..I'm gone...any suggestions on a better place to live? I'm just so sick of people bending the government and our laws to the point where even at home I can't have a say in my and my family's live and how we go about living...
F@ck the USA...bunch of tree huggin, bleeding heart liberal prettythangholes.
oh and heres the link to the story, though I'm sure you all have seen it by now.
http://www.tampabaylive.com/stories/2005/04/050422girlarrest.shtml (http://www.tampabaylive.com/stories/2005/04/050422girlarrest.shtml)
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Don't come to Britain, it's even worse here.
And if ya find some utopia somewhere....let me know.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1081438631_swoop.gif)
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The restraint showed by the teacher amazes me. Fully support the polices action here. The lawyer is probably just sniffing for a big settlement from the school district or the police.
When I was in school, teachers could discipline the kids. I was a good student and even I was occasionally struck or roughed up by a teacher if I was out of line. We (most of us anyway) respected the teachers.
Should be that way again.
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im more worried that your cops cant restrain a 5 year old without handcuffs.
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Its too bad the cops had to be called in the first place. But how else should they have restrained her? Seems to me they were in a no win situation. The cuffs didn't harm her, and did accomplish restraining her. If they physically restrained her themsleves they'd probably really be looking at brutality or excessive force charges.
From the story it sounds like she and her mother had run ins with the police before, and the officer had threatened to cuff her before. btw, that 5 yr looked bigger than a typical 5 yr.
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Central PA but not State College. You'll find the nicest people ever and most of them are conservative.
Just read the article. I see nothing wrong with scaring the **** out of a kid by threatening them with the police.
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ASTAC,
My experience talking with teachers, especially in the public schools, is that in many areas their job is becoming well-nigh impossible. Children are increasingly being raised in single-parent households, where there has been no coherent morality or ethical instruction for generations. Discipline in these households, when it occurs at all, is arbitrary and is dished out on a "you've made mommy mad" basis. Everyone in the household grows up learning that the only rule is to be utterly autonomous, selfish, and self-absorbed. Under those circumstances, the family which is the primary building block of a society, ceases to be a family at all and simply becomes a breeding-ground for lawless barbarians. "Pirates and Prostitutes" as a friend of mine commented. The long term social cost is reflected in the fact that the vast majority of new members of the US prison population were raised by single mothers. (Interestingly in the big "no-duh" category, taxpayers paid for research that concluded: "Each year spent without a dad in the home increases the odds of future incarceration by about 5%. ")
So how do you teach someone who wont sit down, has never been uniformly disciplined, has never seen a society function on anything except a "grab what you can basis,"who psychologically speaking, simply "acts out" on every impulse with no inner restraints, and who has no ethics at all, especially when you are legally prohibited from doing anything but the most flaccid discipline or simply kicking them out?
Educators can't do the job of parents and they certainly can't do it and try to educate as well, so everyone in the classroom suffers because of the presence of "little barbarians" like the one in the video.
As to where to run? ASTAC, there is nowhere, no more frontiers, or new places to start another "shining city on a hill." We can't become neo-puritans and simply move to new colonies and craft a better society. Either we reform this one, or we go the way of every society that has become utterly decadent.
- SEAGOON
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I hear good things about Canada.
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It's not only this issue on Children that has me angered...It's our society's apparent lack of any moral fiber. An example..the ACLU defending NAMBLA...their arguement is thet NAMBLA has a right to free speach and therefore they took the case...but any group with any moral fortitude would have rejected the case. If anyone tries to reform our country based on morals they are shunned and labled "Christian Fundamentalist" or right wing nut-jobs.
On top of that our government no longer fuctions or serves any purpose but to piss off the rest of the world and waste our money. Besides trying to tell us how to live every minute of our lives.
Here's a quote from a Senator from a republic not unlike ours (thought much larger) that seems to hold true
"The Republic is not what it once was. The Senate is full of greedy, squabbling delegates. THERE IS NO INTEREST IN THE COMMON GOOD. There is no civility, only politics."
I mean really. These people that we elect to represent the people, do not represent us at all. They vote how they want, no matter what public opinion on an issue is, with no fear of not being re-elected because they will just lie to us some more and we will believe it.
I've had it...too bad for me, I'm not wacko enough to join a militia and incite an armed insurgency.
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Well hopefully the ACLU will lose this one. I find NAMBLA thoroughly disgusting.
I would like to see a new party form - one the represents the 70% of the middle in politics. Kinda like what the Democrats used to be - simple, clearminded folk - Farmers and Laborers.
'course with corporate farms replacing family farms and labor moving off shore, not sure how many of those groups are left.
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You could always try Utah... Other than restrictive porn and booze laws, they seem to be reasonably conservative about telling people what they can and can't do. You don't hear many stories about unwed Mormon crack babies either.
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Sad.
Once the cops are called if the girl doesnt back down all they have is the cuffs. Thats what cops do.
Certainly long befor they call the cops they call the parent(s) and have her removed from school by them?
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I remember in Jr High school we had a woodshop teacher namer "Kerone"...ex marine type. This guy was the focal point for the entire district and had perfected the manufacture of drag free paddles. That is to say, a large two handed spanking device made from the finest select Teik hardwood. About three foot in length with two foot being basball bat type handle and the last foot being a flat surface with half inch holes drilled into it every two inches.
I witnessed a poorly behaving fella come in from the hallway after being disciplined by one of these things. He was cocky and arrogant on the way out but when he came back in he was treared up and defeated. Behaved the rest of the day if I recall.
By the time I went into high school the state legislature had made corporal punishment unlawful. I remember taking advantage of that fact ;)
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The video I saw showed the girl sitting quietly before the cuffs were put on. No problem with calling police, but the cuffs were way too much.
The asst. Principal sounded like an idiot.. "You don't have the Right.." I just wonder how many 5 year olds she has talked to.
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Everything you read from an internet news source is true
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Originally posted by bunch
Everything you read from an internet news source is true
and unbiased.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
The video I saw showed the girl sitting quietly before the cuffs were put on. No problem with calling police, but the cuffs were way too much.
The asst. Principal sounded like an idiot.. "You don't have the Right.." I just wonder how many 5 year olds she has talked to.
If you listened to what the officer said..apparently they have dealt with this girl before and the parents were well aware of what the cops would do...point is if our society was still in it's right mind, the school administrators could have solved the problem on the spot..but no...the "baby boomer" generation or hippies or whatever you call them have ruined our country beyond repair and this kind of stuff will get worse and more frequent.
I misbehaved a few times in school and promptly got the paddle..but I never got it for the same offense twice.
If you paid close attention to the video as the police (which the girl could see approaching the office) got near the office, thats when she sat down. Personally I would have pepper sprayed the little b@tch for doing that to my office.
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I've heard that New Zealand has the best standard of living right now, and that it is an absolutely gorgeous place to live. I've never been there, but if you want some idea of the scenery, just watch those Lord of the Rings movies. I think they were filmed there.
If you want a real simple, laid back atmosphere of communal gardens and less technology, great wheather and a nice beach, I hear that the small country of Gambia is the place to be
I'm totally with you on leaving. The medical system has failed me to the point that i have nearly died on 8 ocasions over something that could be treated with $15 worth of medication per month.
The judicial system has failed me by allowing criminals to interrupt my life.
The educational system is a joke that forces me to tolerate more crap than I have time to talk about.
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If a kid wants to hit adults, only way to get them to stop is hit them back. After a while they will decide not to do it anymore.
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GREENTENERAL
if you needed 15 bucks worth of medication, why didnt you buy it yourself?
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See - I figured it was piss poor parenting.
Now I see its all them dang librawls.
-SW
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She's freakin FIVE! And you think she needs to be beat up and pepper sprayed!?
Maybe later you can go out and kick some cripples.
LOL.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Maybe later you can go out and kick some cripples.
****, that's so close to what I'm going to do tonite its eerie MT. Except copious amounts of beer will be involved.
-SW
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
GREENTENERAL
if you needed 15 bucks worth of medication, why didnt you buy it yourself?
I did not know of the medication, as they refused to diagnose. In our system, there is a clear distinction between stablization and treatment. Treatment is taking care of the problem, while slabilization is taking care of the affects of the problem.
In my case, I had a black pleuresy which causes the tissue behind the lung to fill will blood. In that case, treatment is an anti-inflamatory medication at $15, and stabilization where they put a candula in your back, and drain the blood at $2000 to $5000 a pop. In most cases, the stabilization is cheaper, because the person dies of the illness, but not for pleuresy, where the treatment is cheaper.
I would have died had I not met someone who had the same condition (that was a rich man, with better insurance than mine, being cash) who told me that he was prescribed Ibuprofin.
Lo and beho! $100 dolars worth does the trick, and is standard treatment of pleuresy, which is a word that all of the doctors that I went to during those 4 years were never even allowed to say, as it would imply a diagnosis. Now, I owe $163,000 in medical bills that I will never pay.
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Every generation since time began has thought the next generation was out of control.
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Originally posted by oboe
I hear good things about Canada.
I've head good things as well, but getting an immigration lawyer may take some time, as they are booked solid. The best way to get in would be as a student with a previous acedemic background and a good career already in progress. I think that is what it would take to get a high score on the questionaire, but...still need that lawyer.
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Originally posted by ASTAC
When my enlistment is up..I'm gone...any suggestions on a better place to live?
Hell, for starters :mad:
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Originally posted by myelo
Every generation since time began has thought the next generation was out of control.
It started with my generation..or as they used to say Generation X...and was passed right along....The gen x'ers were not diciplined enough based on the teachings of the Baby Boomers, and we pass it right along to our kids. It is poor parenting and I blame the generation that came before me. They are in or coming into political power and have already raised their kinds while at the same time tying the hands of those of us that still are raising ours. I don't think kids should be beaten, but a good whack across the bottom is appropraite I think, and school administrators should still have that authority.
And MT that pepper spray remark is just a metaphor for my anger that because of today's society, there was no choice but to call the police.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
She's freakin FIVE! And you think she needs to be beat up and pepper sprayed!?
Maybe later you can go out and kick some cripples.
LOL.
You are absolutely right MT. Putting the cuffs on her was inexplicably wrong.
They should have tazered her ass.
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Originally posted by Meatwad
If a kid wants to hit adults, only way to get them to stop is hit them back. After a while they will decide not to do it anymore.
Why don't you and that knucklehead ASTAC just behead her and be done with her?
********...
:mad: :mad:
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Originally posted by Red Tail 444
Hell, for starters :mad:
Look, up until a few months ago I was probrably the biggest patriot on this bbs...but I just cannot support it anymore..our government(all 3 branches) has proven that the constiution is just toilet paper and wipe their tulips with it everyday...most people I read or hear about make me sick to my stomach..our society finds far worse things that hancuffing a child acceptable.but whine about this incident? no part of the USA today is what our forefathers invisioned fortheir future generations. It's sad..but I feel it is irreversible..The government no longer functions for the common good. Defend it if ya want..I won't anymore.
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why are you blaming the government for crappy parenting? as soon as you say the government is causing it, it becomes there job to fix it.
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Originally posted by ASTAC
Look, up until a few months ago I was probrably the biggest patriot on this bbs...but I just cannot support it anymore..our government(all 3 branches) has proven that the constiution is just toilet paper and wipe their tulips with it everyday...most people I read or hear about make me sick to my stomach..our society finds far worse things that hancuffing a child acceptable.but whine about this incident? no part of the USA today is what our forefathers invisioned fortheir future generations. It's sad..but I feel it is irreversible..The government no longer functions for the common good. Defend it if ya want..I won't anymore.
Sorry but going from biggest Patriot to moving out with Alec Baldwin over a five-year-old's tantrum is just too flippin funny. I'm thinking maybe you were a little shy of the patriot moniker to begin with.
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I would have cooked and eaten her.
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Originally posted by vorticon
why are you blaming the government for crappy parenting? as soon as you say the government is causing it, it becomes there job to fix it.
Here's why...I rarely feel the need to spank my kids, and when I do it is a firm whack on the butt...not anything to even leave much of a red mark...so one day not long ago I am taking the kids out to the car and my 4 year old decides not to hold my hand and starts to run toward the street..i tell him to stop..he looks at me with an evil smile and keeps going...I am finally able to catch him...I gave him a spank for not listening to me and for running into the street (which we have been over amny times before)..a neighbor sees it and calls CPS...as soon as I got back from the store they are at my house waiting for me with the police..I spent 5 hours that night convincing them that me and my wife do not beat our children and not to take them away..so yeah..I think when the government tries to undermine parents..they deserve some of the blame for poor parenting.
They already think it's their job to fix it..and thats the problem
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Sorry but going from biggest Patriot to moving out with Alec Baldwin over a five-year-old's tantrum is just too flippin funny. I'm thinking maybe you were a little shy of the patriot moniker to begin with.
The fact that our society is in an outrage over police doing their jobs is what gets to me...and this incident is just the last straw in a long line of crap thats been going on here..hence the sidebars into the failure of our government to ensure that our rights and priviliges under the Constitution are protected.
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Originally posted by myelo
Every generation since time began has thought the next generation was out of control.
Our youth now loves luxuries. They have bad manners, contempt for authority. They show disrespect for elders and they love to chatter instead of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants, of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up their food, and tyrannize their teachers. Socrates, 425 BC
Your statement is true myelo but is seems that now things are much worse than ever before.
Seagoon is right. The biggest reason for the breakdown of modern society is the breakdown of the family unit.
That wasn't such a big problem a few years ago because the few kids with single parents still got discipline in the classroom. Now teachers have no leverage and the kids know it. It's a recipe for disaster.
I think things will only continue to get worse untill they are so bad that there will either be a complete reversal of policies or our current society will self destruct.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
I would have cooked and eaten her.
Perhaps with some nice fava beans????:p
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Listening to all you adults well.....here goes a 15 year olds point of view. Punishment for misbehaving should be swift and dealt with in schools. I don't care if it's a 5 year old or a 16 year old you should be taught to respect people no matter who they are. I have as well been brought up in a broken home but that's no excuse to behave like some crazed person with free rain over whatever you want. BRING BACK THE FRAT BOARDS!
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Originally posted by nirvana
Listening to all you adults well.....here goes a 15 year olds point of view. Punishment for misbehaving should be swift and dealt with in schools. I don't care if it's a 5 year old or a 16 year old you should be taught to respect people no matter who they are. I have as well been brought up in a broken home but that's no excuse to behave like some crazed person with free rain over whatever you want. BRING BACK THE FRAT BOARDS!
Aren't you a bit young to be a conservative???
;)
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They should'a whipped her bellybutton into next week (learned that one from my Dad, my kids know it well lol) AFTER the cuffs were applied.
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Burn the witch!!! Burn the witch!!!
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Originally posted by Maverick
Perhaps with some nice fava beans????:p
I don't know, I would have to ask either Toad or Lizking for advice on that.
Originally posted by Drunky
Burn the witch!!! Burn the witch!!!
Nah, well done should be good enough.
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Whatever happened to soap in the mouth?
I'm glad the cops whipped out the cuffs on her. If they didn't, somewhere down the road when she gets older, stronger, she could seriously hurt someone because in the past all she did was get nicely asked to stop.
When I was growing up, my dad passed away when I was 2, so it was just my ma, my brother and sister to help raise lil' ol' me.
I've been disciplined in spankings and soap, but when I got older, it was the authority and the voice my ma had. She demanded authority in her house and if she didn't get then you'd lose it. She wasn't mean, she'd show love as any other parent, but she knew when to bring out the voice.
Kids these days need to learn authority, where it comes from, and what can come from it. If I were that teacher, I would be asserting myself by demanding what I want from her while approaching her, trying to back her up into a corner. Teach that kid that until shes an adult and learns respect and authority that she can do what she wants.
I think we should make powered down version of mace as well for teachers with kids like that. Jeez, in all my years of growing up, the worst case we had with any kids doing anything like that was kids that tried to leave school early or were caught smoking in the bathroom. They were put in detention, which was a dark, dank basement with no windows. We feared that place more than anything.
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The police should not have been involved in this at all. This is 100% a parenting issus. The parent should have been notified, and the child sent home. The parent then should have been told that the child is not welcome back to THAT school until their behaviour improves. Being that we HAVE to give that child an education, the parent should have been given the option of not doing anything about the childs behaviour, and the child would then be sent to the "special" needs / "troubled" kids class/school. We DO have special classes for trouble kids. My ex (may she rot in hell) used to teach at one.
BUT it boils down to the parent to me. SHE should be investigated, and it needs to be figured out just why that child behaves the way she does. That child is acting out for a reason.
I for one, believe it's probable lack of a Daddy, or strong male role model in that childs life. And I also agree that corporal punishment should never have been done away with. When I was in elementary school, the longest, hardest walk I ever had was down to the principals office after I had gotten in trouble. I wasn't spanked, BUT I did see that huge paddle near his desk, and it scared the crud out of me.
You can find "extended" length video's of the 5yr old in question, where she is swinging punches at the ast. principal. Not acceptable. That child was out of control. The teacher, and ast. principal went well out of their way with this child, and should be commended for being patient.
Again, we have classes/schools for "at risk" and "special needs" children. If the parent is unwilling to fix this obvious problem with her child, said child should be xfered. "normal" schools are just not set up to handle a child with this kind of a behaviour problem.
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"Every generation since time began has thought the next generation was out of control."
So very true.
Kids like this are difficult.
You can't blame one thing for making her turn out like that. It could be many factors. For sure it's unlikely to be all that little girls fault.
As for the people who advocate beating kids beheading them or whatever. That is beneath contempt even if it is said in jest it is still contemptable.
Lute you make some sense though I don't believe corporal punishment will solve it rather it'll make the violence worse. All you do is show that disputes or bad behaviour is solved by violence. That seems like the last lesson this little demon needs to learn.
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You know what the irony of this is.
If the brat/kid had gotten hurt and the police hadnt cuffed her or even just a slight little bruise on the arm the family would have sued the school/police for millions and probably would have won.
What amazes me is the mom. I read in a different article she was quoted as saying "they set my baby up!" She went on to excuse her kids behavior and blame the school.
When kids hear this crap talk from parents it completly justifies their actions. All they hear is "mommy was defending me that means I'm right"
Restraints arent just there for criminals or to protect police. They are there to keep people from hurting themselves as well.
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"She went on to excuse her kids behavior and blame the school.
When kids hear this crap talk from parents it completly justifies their actions. All they hear is "mommy was defending me that means I'm right"
Yep.
The Parent has quite some blame here. Not all, but that kind of attitude does not help things.
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Originally posted by ASTAC
Here's why...I rarely feel the need to spank my kids, and when I do it is a firm whack on the butt...not anything to even leave much of a red mark...so one day not long ago I am taking the kids out to the car and my 4 year old decides not to hold my hand and starts to run toward the street..i tell him to stop..he looks at me with an evil smile and keeps going...I am finally able to catch him...I gave him a spank for not listening to me and for running into the street (which we have been over amny times before)..a neighbor sees it and calls CPS...as soon as I got back from the store they are at my house waiting for me with the police..I spent 5 hours that night convincing them that me and my wife do not beat our children and not to take them away..so yeah..I think when the government tries to undermine parents..they deserve some of the blame for poor parenting.
They already think it's their job to fix it..and thats the problem
Just like you responded to that story way out of proportion to its relevence for reasons that you have only now been revealed. That little girl responded to something for reasons that make good sense to her but we cannot guess at and will not be revealed by beating her up. She may well act out so much becuase she gets wailed on at home and nothing else makes a dent on her.
But your story does strike home a little. I have 12 and 13 year old boys that are doing fine, but I have friends whose kids have actually turned Childrens Services against them. Totally undermining any scense of authority in the home and leading ultimatly to childeren that never grow up or grow up half baked in their middle 20s with lots of regrets and the most important relationships in thier lives ruined.
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"Just like you responded to that story way out of proportion to its relevence for reasons that you have only now been revealed. That little girl responded to something for reasons that make good sense to her but we cannot guess at and will not be revealed by beating her up. She may well act out so much becuase she gets wailed on at home and nothing else makes a dent on her. "
Exactly
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Originally posted by Pongo
Just like you responded to that story way out of proportion to its relevence for reasons that you have only now been revealed. That little girl responded to something for reasons that make good sense to her but we cannot guess at and will not be revealed by beating her up. She may well act out so much becuase she gets wailed on at home and nothing else makes a dent on her.
Tazer the mom!!!
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Originally posted by midnight Target
She's freakin FIVE! And you think she needs to be beat up and pepper sprayed!?
Maybe later you can go out and kick some cripples.
LOL.
Heyyy, Now THAT sounds like FUN!:aok
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Originally posted by ASTAC
Look, up until a few months ago I was probrably the biggest patriot on this bbs...but I just cannot support it anymore..our government(all 3 branches) has proven that the constiution is just toilet paper and wipe their tulips with it everyday...most people I read or hear about make me sick to my stomach..our society finds far worse things that hancuffing a child acceptable.but whine about this incident? no part of the USA today is what our forefathers invisioned fortheir future generations. It's sad..but I feel it is irreversible..The government no longer functions for the common good. Defend it if ya want..I won't anymore.
Actually, I think our forefathers would be pulling the hair from their powdered wigs If they were to hear or president referring to the U.S as a democracy, as we live in a republic. Our founding fathers did not condone such freedoms at anytime, and the constitution gives no power to the common citizen. It only speaks of our right to pursue, which is a basic right that anyone has no matter what government they live under. Even our process of election is a form of mass control. By giving us the warm fuzzies and feelings of participation in The election of one of 2 or more candidates, our government creates a false sence of participation. This is a way of spreading blame under the guise of democracy.
If you voted for the other guy, you can blame the other half of america. If you voted for the guy that won, you will justify your decision by taking on his values, rather than admitting fault of your own. This keeps up the illusion of a good 50/50 split on opinion. The truth is that no matter who gets into our positions in government, they will do exactly what they wanted to in the first place, as there are no laws that keep an elected politition from wavering on the platform that got them elected.
We do not even have the perceived freedom of speech. We may say what we want to as long as it comunicates up to a predetermined amount of people. This is what the anti-iconoclast laws are in place for. Anyone that publishes above this quantity is subject to government censorship. This goes for your TV broadcasts as well.
So, what i am trying to say is that the constitution was always a peice of toilet paper, and quite frankly it is an insult to the intelligence of the common citizen. And as far as the others that are reading this in discust are concerned,...I am a patriot of this country, but only to it's people, and any duties that I may perform for the government at anytime, while I am still here, will be done to the best of my ability, for you, not the government.
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Originally posted by Skydancer
Lute you make some sense though I don't believe corporal punishment will solve it rather it'll make the violence worse. All you do is show that disputes or bad behaviour is solved by violence. That seems like the last lesson this little demon needs to learn.
Over the last 20-30 years corperal punishment at home and elsewhere has been on a steep decline, Yet voilence among youths is on a dramatic rise.
Clearly this "never hit the kids" is not the answer either.
thing is there is no single answer. You have to take the time to know your kids and know what works and what doesnt with them as individuals.
Some kids a good swat on the arse is all they understand.
Others you can beat till they are black and blue and it wont make a bit of difference.
Thing is for many violence is sometimes the answer. If you show someone that when they are violent that an even greater violence can be brought to bear against them in return they will be less inclined to be violent.
In other instances and for other kids punishment is sometimes enough. But, the punishment has to stick for it to be effective.
that means if you punish a kid by say, grounding him/her for a month then that punishment should last the full month and not 4-5 days untill the kid drives you crazy enough that you let them out early.
I've used both methods on my kids and I am blessed to say my kids are rarely a problem. But They know my punishments stick. I dont make empty promises and then dont follow through.
If I make a threat of violence they know they are only going to get warned once. Same thing if I say they will be grounded. they KNOW I will do it. so I only very rarely ever end up having to.
My wife on the other hand makes empty threats so they have been known to push as far as they can untill I get involved.
LOL Then she gets mad at me cause I only have to say something once and they listen. Hell half the time all I have to do is say their name and they will jump back in line over whatever the issue was
My responce is simple "You talk too friggen much and then dont do anything. So why should they take you seriously"
Talking things out with your kids is good,to a point. Then action must take place.
Example. Had a neighbor who's son could best be discribed as a monster at that time and would try to pull of anything and everything. His father and I talked about it on numerous occasions and I kept telling him that the only thing that kid needs is a good kick in the arse.
His responce was they didnt beleive in doing that they beleived that talking to the kid and giving him a "timeout" or grounding shouldl always be the answer and they never hit their kid.
Really I knew that was his wifes thinking and he was just obaying her rules as he didnt have the grapes to stand up to her. But I played along.
Fast forward about 6 months. the kid finally goes over the edge and takes a kniife and starts telling his sister he's going to stick her with it over some stupid BS. Parents hearing the commotion storm into the room and find out whats happening. Father grabs the kid and drags him into his room the mother yelling "Dont you hit him (dads name)" He turns to her "We've done it YOUR way long enough. Now we're gonna do it my way" and proceeds to tan the kids hide.
I was never so proud of that man as I was that day. Not so much just for finally giving the kid what he needed all along but in finally putting a pair of pants on and putting his wife in her place (somethng she also desperately needed) although temporarily
This was about 7 years ago
Well guess who after that had become and continues to be a different kid. He still has his moments but no worse then any other kid (now almost 18) But he hasnt and doesnt try to get away with murder anymore. He knows and admits freely that before he didnt understand there might be consequences for his actions and even he will say that ,that time and any other time since that he has been whacked, he deserved it.
On the other hand I have a nephew. Now that kid was also a monster. but with hm you could beat him till he bled and it wouldnt have done a bit of good.
What did work was when he was grounded or had something taken away from him.
Like I said. you have to know your kid and what things or combination of things work and what wont.
Each kid is different and there is no blanket solution.
On the other side you also have to let the kids know when they are doing good. The proverbial pat on the back.
And not just not just non stop telling them what they are doing wrong.
Positive and negative association.
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I don't believe you have to hit a child, but having the child know that can happen does influence their behavior. Discipline, not inforced through corporal punishment, is still very effective. I am talking 'time out's' here.
The issue is that it takes time and attention from someone to discipline the child. That obviously was not happening in this case. Instead of the mother being apologetic or embarassed by how out of control her child was, she is going to try and sue the school.
A supreme example of the 'I'm not responsible' excuse. This is nothing new. I do pity on the child being raised by someone like that. I bet the press is having a field day.
Regards,
Malta
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'If they were to hear or president referring to the U.S as a democracy, as we live in a republic."
being a republic merely means your not a monarchy.
"the constitution gives no power to the common citizen"
nor is that its job, a constitution is about the power of government. average joe is limited by morals and laws based upon them.
'
We do not even have the perceived freedom of speech. We may say what we want to as long as it comunicates up to a predetermined amount of people. This is what the anti-iconoclast laws are in place for. Anyone that publishes above this quantity is subject to government censorship. This goes for your TV broadcasts as well. "
of course, not being sent to a gulag for saying bush can go commit various acts involving animals, has nothing to do with freedom of speech.
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When a kid keeps acting up and won't listen to empty threats, I think we should tattoo words like "radish" and "ASS-HOLE" on their forehead.
That will teach them.
Then we should tazer them and their parents!!!
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The biggest problem was the handcuffs were not hooked up to a shock treatment box!
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Originally posted by vorticon
'
being a republic merely means your not a monarchy.
nor is that its job, a constitution is about the power of government. average joe is limited by morals and laws based upon them.
of course, not being sent to a gulag for saying bush can go commit various acts involving animals, has nothing to do with freedom of speech.
Being in a republic merely means that power is divided among those chosen to govern by others chosen to govern. Saying that it simply means that it is not a monarchy, I could use that type of logic to say that being a republic merely means that it is not a Mercedes-Benze.
And to your second statement, Yes you are correct, A true constitution is about defining the power or overall philosophy of a governing body in my opinion as well. The U.S constutution on the other hand, is full of mass appeasment that is used as a tool to envelope the illusion of laws concerning the common citizen.
And for the third statement, of course not, as it it has no bearing on the government or the president unless he found it so offensive that he wished to press slander charges and could prove that it had a direct negative effect on his standard of living.
The government intervenes when a written or spoken statement is deemed to have negative effect on their agenda and style of governing. This is why they have the magical publication and reached audience figures. If not they would have to employ millions to keep us inline. They do not care if the few are unhappy with them as long as the many are content or confused.
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If it is a safety issue, esp. when they are small, then a swat is what is needed. Once they reach the age of reason, usually around 6-8, then if you have raised them right, it is usually enough to say, "that is unacceptable, and if you do it again you will be punished by the appropriate means". I spanked my kids for doing things that comprimised their safety when they were young, but now that they are 8 and 13, they KNOW that when I say their behavior is unacceptable that I speak the truth and it never goes beyond that calmly stated admonishment.
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Man when I was a kid we were locked in the pit for 5 days without food and water or daylight for behaving like that. I still remember the smell of the other kids that never made it out alive, god bless their little souls.
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what no Barbie-cuffs?
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"So, what i am trying to say is that the constitution was always a peice of toilet paper, and quite frankly it is an insult to the intelligence of the common citizen. And as far as the others that are reading this in discust are concerned,...I am a patriot of this country, but only to it's people, and any duties that I may perform for the government at anytime, while I am still here, will be done to the best of my ability, for you, not the government"
The Kind of American I can understand and respect!
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Originally posted by Vulcan
Man when I was a kid we were locked in the pit for 5 days without food and water or daylight for behaving like that. I still remember the smell of the other kids that never made it out alive, god bless their little souls.
Is that all? I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night, half an hour before I went to bed, eat a lump of cold poison, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad would kill us, and dance about on our graves singing "Hallelujah."
But you try and tell the young people today that... and they won't believe ya'
- SEAGOON
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:lol :aok
Cue the Music
Darump a diddly dump a dump darumpa dumpa da
Darump a diddly dump a dump darumpa dumpa da
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Originally posted by vorticon
im more worried that your cops cant restrain a 5 year old without handcuffs.
You need to see the whole video and get the background before you say anything.
This Child was out of control on more than one occasion. The school attempted to disciplined her each time until her mother came in threatening them with a lawsuit. At THAT time she was told that if they were unable to "touch" her child then they would be forced to call the police and have her removed from the school. The mother STILL refused to do anything about the little brat. That's why the cops were called, that's why the little brat was cuffed and hauled off. After watching the whole video I wish they would have tasered her oscar.
Woof
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Originally posted by midnight Target
She's freakin FIVE! And you think she needs to be beat up and pepper sprayed!?
Maybe later you can go out and kick some cripples.
LOL.
Pepper spray would be going too far, but that little brat damn sure needs a leather belt across her arse a few times.
I've got twin boys, who are 4 right now, and at thier worst they don't come close to this kinda crap. And when they do start pushing, 9 times out of 10 I don't have to count past 2 before they straighten up, cause they know if I say 3 they're either standing in the corner or the belt is coming out, depending on what they were doing.
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"the belt is coming out...."
Until they turn 10 and they pay you back (with interest!)
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/04/28/child.charged.ap/index.html
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Originally posted by ChickenHawk
Your statement is true myelo but is seems that now things are much worse than ever before.
Nah, y'all are just getting old and crotchety.
I suggest increasing dietary fiber.
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Originally posted by Swoop
Don't come to Britain, it's even worse here.
And if ya find some utopia somewhere....let me know.
Hey Swoop - did you see "Classroom Chaos" on C5 on Wednesday?
Worse still was "Supernanny", shown earlier in the week. It's about a woman who visits parents of difficult children, and tries to teach the parents how to control the children. There's all this crap about putting the kids in the "cooling off" area when they're bad, but when they did that, the kids threw a tantrum. The two children featured were 4 year old twins - brother & sister. When the boy was put in the cooling off area (a beanbag in a utility room off the kitchen) he yelled at his father thus: "F**k! F**k! F**k!!! F**k off, you f**ker!!" - all this, from a 4 year old boy. I remember thinking that there was nothing there that a good spanking wouldn't sort out, followed by being sent to bed and locked in the room. But no. Smacking is verboten these days. So parents give in to tantrums, and demands from kids who want DVDs, MP3 players, mobile phones... Today's children seem to have learnt that throwing a tantrum will get them the things they want. I want, therefore I get seems to be the maxim of today's children. I hate them, and I'm glad I never had any.
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Originally posted by beet1e
Hey Swoop - did you see "Classroom Chaos" on C5 on Wednesday?
Worse still was "Supernanny", shown earlier in the week. It's about a woman who visits parents of difficult children, and tries to teach the parents how to control the children. There's all this crap about putting the kids in the "cooling off" area when they're bad, but when they did that, the kids threw a tantrum. The two children featured were 4 year old twins - brother & sister. When the boy was put in the cooling off area (a beanbag in a utility room off the kitchen) he yelled at his father thus: "F**k! F**k! F**k!!! F**k off, you f**ker!!" - all this, from a 4 year old boy. I remember thinking that there was nothing there that a good spanking wouldn't sort out, followed by being sent to bed and locked in the room. But no. Smacking is verboten these days. So parents give in to tantrums, and demands from kids who want DVDs, MP3 players, mobile phones... Today's children seem to have learnt that throwing a tantrum will get them the things they want. I want, therefore I get seems to be the maxim of today's children. I hate them, and I'm glad I never had any.
We have supernanny and nanny 911 on here in the states....we tried thaat crap and it doesn't work. I'm just learning to ignore the tantrums..but the problem is what to do when they do stuff like take the fake wood out of the gas fireplace (like happened last night).
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Timeouts don't work when the only attention the kid gets is a time out. The best defense against an unruly kid is to recognize them when they are good.
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MT,
Actually you are half right. You need to recognize that reinforcement of both types of behavior will be more effective. Recognizing good behavior and praising it is half the job. Giving negative reinforcement (punishment) for bad acts completes the cycle. After the punishment, a reiteration as to why the punishment was given and a reafirmation that the parent loves the child should help cement the lesson.
Rather sterile way to say that a child comes into the world uncivilized and not house broken. They need training, education and love from parents to allow them to live in a world populated by other human beings.
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Agreed Mav, however, since punishment is the opposite of praise, the withholding of attention can be significant punishment only when it is truely the opposite of normal daily events..
In other words, the more we recognize the good stuff, the more punishment can be effective as simply the lack of that recognition (Time Out).
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ASTAC what do u have up your arnold
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This only intensifies my belief that teachers and school officlas should be allowed to carry a pair of zip-cuffs with them to restrain problem children until either the parents come to deal with them or the cops do. At least it would work well in junior high and high schools.
This kid got what she deserved. Everything was handled as it should have been. But notice how it's never the mother's fault? It's never the child's fault? It's always someone else' fault. That is what makes me mad...no one ever ponies up to their own issues anymore...there's always someone to point the blame with a lawyer to back it up.
That attorney defending the kid is a Golly-geened moron. Let that kid run around his office for a bit and see if he's not trying to throw her out a damn window.
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Calm down Texace, or we'll have to restrain you.
(http://www.nlectc.org/images/handcuffs.jpg)
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Midnight you got any kids??????
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Timeouts don't work when the only attention the kid gets is a time out. The best defense against an unruly kid is to recognize them when they are good.
Tazer them when they are bad. They respect that.
Oh, and tazer them when they are good also...for not being good enough.
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Give the little beetch another couple of years.
Girl Sticks Schoolmates With Used Needle
PHILADELPHIA (AP) - A third-grader stuck 19 schoolmates with her mother's diabetes blood-testing needle this week, and one salamandered student tested positive for HIV on a preliminary test, officials said.
Health officials said the virus could not have been contracted from the needle stick, and they noted that preliminary tests can yield false positives. The risk to students who were stuck after the possibly infected child depends on factors including the depth of the stick, health officials said.
The 8-year-old stuck her Taylor Elementary schoolmates Wednesday at the school's breakfast, at lunch and in the classroom, using a needle that was about one-third of an inch long, on the end of a device that looks like a pen, school officials said. They were unsure why the girl did it.
She was suspended and will probably be moved to another school, said Paul Vallas, the school district's chief executive.
Most of the students involved were taken to a hospital for testing and treatment, school officials said.
According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the risk of HIV infection after a needle stick is low, with an average of one in 300 cases leading to infection.
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Originally posted by bustr
Midnight you got any kids??????
4 and 2 grandkids... why?
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To tell ya tha truth yall, a kids reaction doesnt just come from one factor. I know many kids my age (16) who are in single parent homes, one even lives with her step sister, they are all normal (normal being they dont get arrested at school or hit teachers or go around poking people with HIV needles). Someones reactions to external stimuli (sp, lol gotta love the school system) are dictated by there environment, genetics, and ethics and morals. You dont get all of that from your parents. my best friend practically raised himself, he just got accepted into the air force adacemy.
Some people are born predisposed to violence and irrational behavior, this can be cancelled out by being brought up good, while others are born with somewhat normal predispositions, but can be raised bad. It all depends on tha person. Plus, how do ya know that this stuff hasnt been happening for decades. Maybe the media is just more efficient at gathering information, however stupid that info is. To bad i couldnt organize my thoughts any further its getting late and i still have a kegger to go to, and then i gtg and get stoned w my friends. HAHAHA jk w00t, hope you understood what i said.:aok
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Both parents working 60 hours a week might have something to do with it......nah
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Our youth now loves luxuries. They have bad manners, contempt for authority. They show disrespect for elders and they love to chatter instead of exercise.
Yeah, it's like they've been embedded with a mysterious and sinister computer chip. Or evil spirits have invaded their souls.
It would have nothing to do with the fact that we create these "luxuries"... and that we peddle these luxuries onto the kids 24/7 from every imaginable angle for huge amounts of money... or that we use these luxuries as a stand-in babysitter.... plopping these evil kids in front of a TV and a PS2 so that we can enjoy our luxuries in peace and quiet.
No... This 5 year-old chick wasn't a symptom of our bullchit... She's simply an excellent example of "kids today". How she got that way? Well.... don't look at me.
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It's not my fault my kid is fat. It's not my kid's fault he's fat also!!!
It's McDonald's fault they're fat. McDonalds serves fatty foods.
Just because they are only nine years old and I drive them to McDonalds and give them money to buy these foods it's still not my fault.
It's McDonald's fault they're fat. McDonalds servers fatty foods.
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Speak for yourself, Nash. My kids are not exposed to the crap you list, they are not allowed, nor do they want to watch TV, nor do they harbor anger against anyone.
If you had kids, you might understand what it is all about. Kids are monkeys. They imitate their parents, and if the parents are absent, then they imitate their peers or the media.
Children are 100% a reflection of their parents , barring medical issues.
This is not to say that kids are perfect; they learn by pushing the envelope and their parents reactions to that behaivor will have lifelong impact. Some people, kids included are just ****ed up, however, no matter what their parents or peers do.
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Gee, Liz.... It looks like we're in agreement... essentially saying the same thing. Funny how that works, eh?
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When have we not been in agreement, other than discussing drugs and the relative beauty of SOB VS Airhead?
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Well, other than your occasional bouts of Toad worshiping, probably not that much.
That last half of your sentence stopped me in my tracks.
... 'cuz for a second there I was actually pondering it.
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Toad licking does not equate to whorship.
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Well... Whatever you call it...
Sayin' that by the mere virtue of having Toad respond to a post makes the poster look like an idiot strikes me as somewhat tantamount to worship.
Or maybe just a crush.
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Acutally, I prefer to peck the liver out of toads, causing them to 'esplode.
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It's been an insane coupla weeks.
I think one approaches the BBS differently after an absence, however short. Or reads it differently.
Seems different, anyways.
I sometimes wonder what the average BBS reader thinks when he comes back, the next day, to a thread that was reasonably stable up until one of these late-night off topic back-'n-forths.
Whaddyagonnado....
It's supposed to snow tonight.
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Hopefully you mean a weather condition, not a dealer induced storm.
As for what random readers would think of any forum on a skim, well, it would be mostly incomprehensible, kind of like a monkey reading the Wall Street Journal.
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Nah... I don't know any dealers here. Part of the plan.
You raise an interesting.... something. The way I see it, when it comes to the WSJ, it's more like humans trying to understand monkeys. Not a big fan.
In the next two months.... new albums by:
Weezer
Steve Malkmus
Aimee Mann
Fiona Apple
er and someone else that I forget.
Not bad at all.
Anyone you looking forward to?
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I only do local bands; I am pretty jaded. None that you would have heard of for sure, thouh you may in the future. You ever hear of Bob schnieder or the Scabs?
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No... although The Scabs rings a bell... but prolly because the name sounds like any thousiands of bands with a name like that.
Lemme (wild) guess though... kinda rockibily? Southern rock but up-tempo?
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No. Let me se if I can find some illegal online sound bites.
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HOLY SMOKES WHAT WAS THAT?! Hey Skuzzy! LOOK! ---------> over there....
(cool)
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Here is a decent review:
http://www.universitystar.com/main/article?aid=956
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Here you go, all legal and ****:
http://www.bobschneidermusic.com/
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Wheee here I go.....
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Good stuff.
Maybe a year ago I'd say that these kinda tunes would not have a chance (what have the Counting Crows done for you lately?)... But Jack Johnson is absolutely shredding the charts.... so rootsish-type rock is alive and... well... alive. For sure.
Here's what to watch.
The Wallflowers are about to come out with a new album. If it takes, then maybe he makes the leap from "a major label" (any info?).... to a major that he'll name.
Mostly, I'm just BS'n.... Good tunes. Thanks.
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Liz, Nash, get a room fer crying out loud! :p