Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Raider179 on April 28, 2005, 03:41:35 PM
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Iran has threatened to start enriching Uranium again. I love this response...
The US government is proposing a $30m deal selling up to 100 laser-guided bunker-busting bombs to Israel.
The GBU-28 is a 2,000-kg conventional weapon with a powerful warhead that can burrow through six metres (20 feet) of concrete or 30 metres of earth.
Congress has 30 days to reject planned foreign military sales, but correspondents say it rarely does so.
However, the bombs are to be fitted on its F-15 fighter jets, which would put Iran within range.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4493443.stm
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Yah.
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WTG!
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It will be interesting to see how many planes get through the Iranians air defence system.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
It will be interesting to see how many planes get through the Iranians air defence system.
I bet enough to get the reactor:p
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Originally posted by Thrawn
It will be interesting to see how many planes get through the Iranians air defence system.
My guess would be all of them.
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Originally posted by Raider179
My guess would be all of them.
Really, I've seen the briefs on the stuff they have...an ultralight with huge radar reflectors on it could probrably make it through
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Originally posted by ASTAC
Really, I've seen the briefs on the stuff they have...an ultralight with huge radar reflectors on it could probrably make it through
S-200 that crapy? Another question is whether or not the government of Iraq would let Isreal over fly it.
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Originally posted by Thrawn
S-200 that crapy? Another question is whether or not the government of Iraq would let Isreal over fly it.
Yep all you gotta do is take out the radars and those things are useless. only real way to defend against an air attack is with aircraft or mobile SAM's. Permament sites are easy targets.
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Why all these military hardware details ?
If there is an attack against iranian installations by Israel or another foreigners, then the mullah-regime will be more than happy.
Because then their regime will be stabilized for another decade.
And what damage could be done ?
Even if all known installations in iran will be destroyed it will take only a short time to replace them, because nations like China or Russia will be glad to build new ones for iranian petrodollars.
So its absolutely not interesting if Israel has funny bunkerbombs or Iran has funny S-XXX-anti-air-missiles or if 50 or 100% of the iranian installations will be destroyed.
The only important element in this calculation is:
Is there an attack by foreigners or not?
If yes - then iranian nationalism will be fueled like it happened in the 1980ties, when Saddam and his arab hordes attacked Iran.
And again the mullahregime will be stabilized by such an attack.
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Originally posted by babek-
Why all these military hardware details ?
If there is an attack against iranian installations by Israel or another foreigners, then the mullah-regime will be more than happy.
Because then their regime will be stabilized for another decade.
And what damage could be done ?
Even if all known installations in iran will be destroyed it will take only a short time to replace them, because nations like China or Russia will be glad to build new ones for iranian petrodollars.
So its absolutely not interesting if Israel has funny bunkerbombs or Iran has funny S-XXX-anti-air-missiles or if 50 or 100% of the iranian installations will be destroyed.
The only important element in this calculation is:
Is there an attack by foreigners or not?
If yes - then iranian nationalism will be fueled like it happened in the 1980ties, when Saddam and his arab hordes attacked Iran.
And again the mullahregime will be stabilized by such an attack.
nice point but I gotta say the hardware is exactly what is relevant. What do you think Isreal plans on doing with 100 2000lb bunker busters now that Iraq is no longer having to be worried about? The reason they are buying them seems very clear. And I would think if Isreal destroys Iranian reactors China and Russia might think twice about going back in and rebuilding them. And even if they did, they would just get blown up again.
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Originally posted by Raider179
And I would think if Isreal destroys Iranian reactors China and Russia might think twice about going back in and rebuilding them. And even if they did, they would just get blown up again.
Why would they care. They get to sell more for more oil.
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Does Iran have 100 bunkers to bust?
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Probably not but you have figure they are gonna drop more than 1 on each target.
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Originally posted by babek-
And again the mullahregime will be stabilized by such an attack.
Job security for the DoD... :)
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"The US government is proposing a $30m deal selling up to 100 laser-guided bunker-busting bombs to Israel."
:rolleyes: And you guys wonder why your country is not too popular in the Arab world! I wonder will you be selling them to the Palastinians too?
How is overtly supporting Israel by selling her Hi Tech weaponry whilst Israel is partioning the country with a wall and settling on ( stealing ) Palistinian territory, ever going to convince arab opinion that the US is not anti the arab world?
Its plum crazy.
If your Govt wants the reactor gone then it should do it itself,
( only please Mr Blair don't go along with this cockeyed plan to ratchet things up to WW3!)
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Originally posted by Skydancer
"The US government is proposing a $30m deal selling up to 100 laser-guided bunker-busting bombs to Israel."
:rolleyes: And you guys wonder why your country is not too popular in the Arab world! I wonder will you be selling them to the Palastinians too?
How is overtly supporting Israel by selling her Hi Tech weaponry whilst Israel is partioning the country with a wall and settling on ( stealing ) Palistinian territory, ever going to convince arab opinion that the US is not anti the arab world?
Its plum crazy.
If your Govt wants the reactor gone then it should do it itself,
( only please Mr Blair don't go along with this cockeyed plan to ratchet things up to WW3!)
lol. You are so ignorant on so may levels.
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Indeed I am completely ignorant as to why your idot govt thinks it a good idea to sell weapons to Israel when a large part of the Arab world hates you because of your support for Israel!
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Originally posted by Skydancer
Indeed I am completely ignorant as to why your idot govt thinks it a good idea to sell weapons to Israel when a large part of the Arab world hates you because of your support for Israel!
Oh here's the answer.From march 13th btw.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-1522978,00.html
Israeli forces have used a mock-up of Iran’s Natanz uranium enrichment plant in the desert to practise destroying it. Their tactics include raids by Israel’s elite Shaldag (Kingfisher) commando unit and airstrikes by F-15 jets from 69 Squadron, using bunker-busting bombs to penetrate underground facilities.
And don't forget
The reactors they are building.
The bunkerbomb story is recent news. A fullmonth and a half after the times story leaked out.
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Originally posted by Skydancer
Indeed I am completely ignorant as to why your idot govt thinks it a good idea to sell weapons to Israel when a large part of the Arab world hates you because of your support for Israel!
Does that mean China and Russia are pro-Arab?
or secretly they are just in it for the money and really are just pro-China and pro-Russia?
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Originally posted by Skydancer
Indeed I am completely ignorant as to why your idot govt thinks it a good idea to sell weapons to Israel when a large part of the Arab world hates you because of your support for Israel!
LOL, More!
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Is enriched uranium used for nuclear reactors?
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Originally posted by NUKE
lol. You are so ignorant on so may levels.
Does the pot calling the kettle black ironic because both the pot and the kettle are black, or is it because the pot is looking at the kettle, and on its metallic, shiny surface, sees a reflection of itself in the kettle?
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Originally posted by SunTracker
Is enriched uranium used for nuclear reactors?
I believe the answer to that is yes. However, I think the Iranians are making weapons grade uranium which is a higher grade than what is needed to run a nuclear reactor iirc.
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Originally posted by GScholz
Nuke is the resident expert on ignorance. A Master Ignorant you might say.
What's your beef with me?
Skyprancer is basically saying that the US should not sell these weapons to Israel because we are not liked by the Arabs.....as if popularity among Arabs is valid argument against it. (ignorant)
On the other hand, we have Russia's deals with Iran and other Arab nations not questioned.
Skydancer is like a lot of Euros......they have a blind ignorant bias against Israel.
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Is enriched uranium used for nuclear reactors?
Yes.
How many US and British troops will die in the upsurge of violence in Iraq if Israel is allowed to attack Iran?
Any Israeli attack has to go through Iraqi airspace, which is controlled by the US, so there's no way of arguing we weren't complicit in the attacks.
And the majority Shia community in Iraq has close ties to Iran, and like the US troops in their country allowing Israel to attack Iran through there airspace.
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How is overtly supporting Israel by selling her Hi Tech weaponry whilst Israel is partioning the country with a wall and settling on ( stealing ) Palistinian territory, ever going to convince arab opinion that the US is not anti the arab world?
Bias much?
Read up on the history of Israel and that land. Then come back to these boards.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Bias much?
Read up on the history of Israel and that land. Then come back to these boards.
He is just ignorant and thinks Israel is the problem in the Arab-fugged up middle east.
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Too bad the "balls" fled the British Isles when Churchill was laid to rest. Wonder if they can hear him spinning in his grave these days?
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Originally posted by Skydancer
Indeed I am completely ignorant as to why your idot govt thinks it a good idea to sell weapons to Israel when a large part of the Arab world hates you because of your support for Israel!
Skydancer, they would hate us anyway. They hate us because we aren't Muslims. They hate you, too, if you're not Muslim.
Remember the bad old days of the Cold War? They called the US the "Great Satan", and the USSR the "Lesser Satan". Can you say that the USSR supported Israel? Of course not. Just the opposite, really.
This is not an idealogical struggle between opposing forms of government, Skydancer. It is a struggle between two completely different cultures, the Western Humanist society against the Theocratic Muslim society.
That's my opinion, anyway. Your results may differ. See pamphlet inside box for details. Offer void in Nevada.
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Not all of them but there is a substantial sect that does. Do you doubt this, G?
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Originally posted by GScholz
Rshubert, do you think American Muslims hate you too?
Why would any American hate Americans?
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Nuke, there are millions of americans that hate americans. In this instance ithe religious sect hates other religions, not americans.
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Originally posted by Lizking
Nuke, there are millions of americans that hate americans. In this instance ithe religious sect hates other religions, not americans.
If an American hates Americans, then he hates himself by default......that's my point.
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"Americans" covers a lot of people, Nuke. I don't really hate anyone, but I damn sure don't like a whole lot of "Americans".
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Nuke, you are soooo naive.
Right now, everyone hates Americans. It's the cool thing to do. Even ourselves.
I mean, I hate myself so bad that I'm going to drink beer until I get drunk, have relations with my wife as punishment, and then, dammit, I'm going to bed just to show myself what happens to people like me.
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Originally posted by Lizking
"Americans" covers a lot of people, Nuke. I don't really hate anyone, but I damn sure don't like a whole lot of "Americans".
yeah, but that's different than saying "I hate Americans"
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Thank Cod SOMEONE still lives like Common people. S! Drunky!
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quote:
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Originally posted by Skydancer
Indeed I am completely ignorant as to why your idot govt thinks it a good idea to sell weapons to Israel when a large part of the Arab world hates you because of your support for Israel!
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So it is ok for Russia and China to arm 98% of the terrorists and rogue armies in the World? Usually the RPG or "Kalishnikov" is mentioned or shown. Winston Churchill wanted Isreal as well.
Karaya
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The iranians know that two countries that hate them have no respect for their millitary, thats why they want nukes.
Peaple with nukes are negotiated with, people without them are dictated to or invaded.
Thats the way the world works.
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
quote:
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Originally posted by Skydancer
Indeed I am completely ignorant as to why your idot govt thinks it a good idea to sell weapons to Israel when a large part of the Arab world hates you because of your support for Israel!
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So it is ok for Russia and China to arm 98% of the terrorists and rogue armies in the World? Usually the RPG or "Kalishnikov" is mentioned or shown. Winston Churchill wanted Isreal as well.
Karaya
And 90% of the totalitarian regimes in the world have M16s. Whats your point?
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Originally posted by Thrawn
Another question is whether or not the government of Iraq would let Isreal over fly it.
The who?
Tronsky
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I have no blind ignorant bias against Israel.
I have no blind ignorant bias against anyone.
I speak as I see it. ( and spell realy bad )
Israel took its land from the origional inhabitants by force! For hundreds of years Jews Christians and Muslims had lived together, largely peacefully in Palistine. Then a new wave of Jewish Immigrants from Europe came. The very people who should have known best about human rights, having suffered, ethnic cleansing and rthe centuries worst example of Genocide. Palistine was fought over ethnicaly cleansed and supported by the West the state of Israel was formed.
No wonder the Palistinians and their fellow Muslims and Arabs are a bit p***d off! Wouldn't you be if a bunch of immigrants and refugees came into your country decided god said it was where they should live, went to war against you took your land, bulldozed your village town etc, made you live in clearly defined areas and then started to try and build on those areas aswell.
( The Original inhabitants of the great USA know all about that one and they fought tooth and nail. )
Now you guys think its a good idea to continue overtly supporting that country by selling it more Hi Tech weapons and you wonder why the Arabs get so P***d they start a war of terror on your nation? And you are calling me ignorant?:rolleyes: Sheesh.
Israel ought to be facing UN sanctions for its actions.
And yeah what happened happened but would anyone seriopusly argue that the American Indian shouldn't have fought or that Black South Africans shouldn't have fought? Why then should Palistinians and their Allies just roll over and accept what has happened in the ME?
(And Yeah I think British troops should get out of NI and when the population of that place want to join the republic and vote for it they should be allowed to go. just to be even handed here.)
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You know if other nations sell weapons to that region, its a no no,
how can they!, unbelievable!
the whole region is so well balanced lol
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Originally posted by Skydancer
I wonder will you be selling them to the Palastinians too?
Why would we do that?
How is overtly supporting Israel by selling her Hi Tech weaponry whilst Israel is partioning the country with a wall and settling on ( stealing )
Stealing?
If your Govt wants the reactor gone then it should do it itself,
( only please Mr Blair don't go along with this cockeyed plan to ratchet things up to WW3!)
Israel has this thing about Iran's stated desire to develop and drop a nuclear weapon on them. Silly Jewish People. Why are they always feeling so paranoid? And WWIII? Who we going to fight?
Woof
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Silly Iran to worry that the only Nuclear power in the ME is israel!
I don't blame em for wanting a bit of parity!
Of course it would be better to be even handed and deny both Israel and Iran having nukes, and for that matter get rid of our own to lead by example!
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Originally posted by Skydancer
I don't blame em for wanting a bit of parity!
Me neither, but hopefully Israel deals with them anyway.
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Originally posted by Skydancer
Silly Iran to worry that the only Nuclear power in the ME is israel!
I don't blame em for wanting a bit of parity!
Of course it would be better to be even handed and deny both Israel and Iran having nukes, and for that matter get rid of our own to lead by example!
Yeah, Israel has terrorized all the ME countries for decades with their nuclear weapons. Isreal is so radical.....the only thing the poor Arabs can do to protect themselves is to get nuclear weapons.
I only wish Israel was more rational and responsible like the Arab nations all are. I really think it's time Israel be stopped.
Israel even officially calls for the destruction of the Arabs and they get away with it? Outrageous!
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Why would any American hate Americans?
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/04/28/akbar.trial.ap/index.html
An extreme example NUKE
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Think it's a but late in the game to be bombing reactors. Project seems to far advanced to be sure that they will completely destroy the programe and will just cause even more problems then it solves.
As for the US and Israel, US really does come across as being Israels lap dog at times for some reason. Personally I think the Israeles and Palastinians are as bad as each other.
...-Gixer
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comapring isrealies to plaesitinains is so wakced..
Gixer....and the rest of you zionist haters....We shoudl bomb a bus full of your relatives.....no screw that..take your famliy to Soparroz Pizza!!..Have a pepporoni..and a glass full of nails in your daughters head!
We call it defence.....
Just think..If those DuMoFO' ME's over there wouldnt kill civilians..woman children on a regular basis......They could really get alot farther trying to stop the "settling"
its real easy
But no..we got clueless dolts comparing the two parties as the same......Yes Busch is Satan..America is Satan...blah blah..
disgusting...
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Israel took its land from the origional inhabitants by force! For hundreds of years Jews Christians and Muslims had lived together, largely peacefully in Palistine. Then a new wave of Jewish Immigrants from Europe came. The very people who should have known best about human rights, having suffered, ethnic cleansing and rthe centuries worst example of Genocide. Palistine was fought over ethnicaly cleansed and supported by the West the state of Israel was formed.
Jewish people have lived in Palestine for thousands of years. Jewish people built Jerusalem long BEFORE Mohammed thought up the Islamic religion. (ie before it was ever a Muslim Holy City it was the Jewish capital).
I think the Israelis have a pretty good historical claim to that land as their homeland.
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Originally posted by Skydancer
Silly Iran to worry that the only Nuclear power in the ME is israel!
I'm guessing Israel's restraint is a bit better than Iran's. So far so good at least.
Anyway.. today I sat down and did some figuring when I was supposed to be working but since I hate my job it didn't really bother me very much.
I have 13 Jewish friends, 1 Jewish Radiologist, 6 Jewish coworkers and who knows how many Jewish aquaintances.
They don't scare me.
I have No Iranian friends, no Palestinian Friends, and only 1 Arab aquaintance.
He is a bit Dodgy and I don't really feel comfortable around him. Therefore I think Israel should have the bomb, and the rest of the ME should STFU and consider the consequences of pissing off the Israeli's.
If the USA has to shell out the big bucks in the ME then I think we should give the money to someone who can kick the living s__t out of every other country in a couple of weeks and then go home. :D
Woof
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Originally posted by GreenCloud
Gixer....and the rest of you zionist haters....We shoudl bomb a bus full of your relatives.....no screw that..take your famliy to Soparroz Pizza!!..Have a pepporoni..and a glass full of nails in your daughters head!
We call it defence.....
So what's the difference between a suicide bomber and a guided missile or bomb from a helicopter/plane? Your daughters head is still dead all the same.
Guess they call it defence too. Cuts both ways.
...-Gixer
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Ok.. we sell Israel bunker busters.
Now why on earth would you guy's all jump to the conclusion that they're gonna toss 30 million in used howitzer gun tubes on an Iran's reactor?
C'mon.. this is ISRAEL fer cripes sakes..
They're gonna sell 'em to the Chinese fer 50 million.
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Heya Hang. :D
Damn....
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'Sup, Nash!
Damo.. 's like old home week! Think I'll get drunker 'n celebrate.
*hic*
;)
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Whenever I asked about you, someone would always say that you were geekin' out on some RC board.
It was terribly sad.
Like.... an old friend just...... left.
It would have lessened the blow had word come down that you won the lottery, and were residing in Monte Carlo with Brigitte Bardot and her dogs (god forbid - not cats).
But not by much.
Good to see ya man.
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Nolo Contendre.
(I plead insanity.. I had ta eat.. not eating makes me freakin crazy)
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"So what's the difference between a suicide bomber and a guided missile or bomb from a helicopter/plane? Your daughters head is still dead all the same. "
Yep.
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Originally posted by bustr
Too bad the "balls" fled the British Isles when Churchill was laid to rest. Wonder if they can hear him spinning in his grave these days?
Britain doesn't have balls?
Sure you not confusing us with the french?
(i know that a lot of american's geography gets a little fuzzy outside the states.)
You know - i am not trying to be smart or start a flame here.. but i am very suprised the US did not help us in the falklands.
British island gets invaded, british have no proper air support after the big carriers were disbanded (thank christ for the harrier), british sail 3000 or whatever it is miles with an understrength force without proper air support and kick arse. That is balls.
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Originally posted by bustr
Too bad the "balls" fled the British Isles when Churchill was laid to rest. Wonder if they can hear him spinning in his grave these days?
British soldiers killed 35 Iraqi attackers in the Army’s first bayonet charge since the Falklands War 22 years ago. The fearless Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders stormed rebel positions after being ambushed and pinned down. Despite being outnumbered five to one, they suffered only three minor wounds in the hand-to-hand fighting near the city of Amara. The battle erupted after Land Rovers carrying 20 Argylls came under attack on a highway.
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Originally posted by bustr
Too bad the "balls" fled the British Isles when Churchill was laid to rest. Wonder if they can hear him spinning in his grave these days?
funny you should say that. go pick a bar fight with a pommie then report on the results. :D
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"You know - i am not trying to be smart or start a flame here.. but i am very suprised the US did not help us in the falklands. "
And thats just one of the reasons I think we should stayed out of Iraq!
"British island gets invaded, british have no proper air support after the big carriers were disbanded (thank christ for the harrier), british sail 3000 or whatever it is miles with an understrength force without proper air support and kick arse. That is balls."
Big ones !
:cool:
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Originally posted by Skydancer
"So what's the difference between a suicide bomber and a guided missile or bomb from a helicopter/plane? Your daughters head is still dead all the same. "
Yep.
Palestinian sucide bombers tend to attack civilians with the sole intent on killing as many as possible, in case you hadn't noticed that trend.
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Originally posted by Skydancer
"You know - i am not trying to be smart or start a flame here.. but i am very suprised the US did not help us in the falklands. "
And thats just one of the reasons I think we should stayed out of Iraq!
"British island gets invaded, british have no proper air support after the big carriers were disbanded (thank christ for the harrier), british sail 3000 or whatever it is miles with an understrength force without proper air support and kick arse. That is balls."
Big ones !
:cool:
Dateline: 30 April, 1982. Reagan terminates Haig's peace mission, declares US support for Britain, imposes economic sanctions on Argentina, and offers Britain materiel and other aid.
Henh.
You take a swipe at us.. while yer lil pal's at Airbus across the channel were actively supporting the Argentines?
The pilots of the 2d Escuadrilla, trained in France in 1980–81, were fully qualified with the aircraft. However, at the time the conflict in the Falklands began, only five of the Super Etendards and five Exocet missiles had been delivered from France. The Common Market nations and NATO immediately initiated an arms embargo on Argentina, therefore halting the French shipments of planes and missiles. Throughout the conflict, the Argentine government tried desperately but unsuccessfully to obtain more Exocets on the world market. Argentina would have to fight the war with only five Etendards and Exocet missiles. Since spare parts for the Etendards were cut off by the NATO arms embargo, the FAA decided to hold one of the five fighters in reserve and use it for parts to support the remaining four aircraft.
The Argentinians had no previous experience with antiship missiles, and the Exocet was a complicated and cranky weapon. The Argentinians experienced a lot of trouble fitting the Exocet launch system and rails to the Super Etendards. In November 1981, Dassault Aviation, owned by the French government and builder of the Super Etendard, sent a team of nine of its own technicians (and some additional French Aerospatiale specialists) to work with the Argentine navy to supervise the introduction of the Etendards and Exocets. Although France complied with the NATO/ Common Market weapons embargo, the French technical team remained in Argentina and apparently continued to work on the aircraft and Exocets, successfully repairing the malfunctioning launch systems. Without the technical help and collusion from the government of France—Britain’s NATO “ally”—it is improbable that Argentina would have been able to employ its most devastating weapon.
Yah gotta wonder.. did you get yer education in Japan with Japanese textbooks? Oh, BTW; did the French Goverment ever apologize to the Brits for not porking the Exocet Programme?
Lastly, yer statement of 'the US Did not help us in the Falklands' is so hugely off center.. not only did we support you, we refused to assist the Argentinians in ANY way..
From the start, the junta’s strategy of seizing the Falklands was delusional. Immediately after the Argentinian seizure of the Falklands and the British announcement that they would mount a campaign to retake the islands, the Argentine military contacted the US government and requested that the United States provide Argentina with full intelligence support in a conflict with Britain. When the US intelligence officials denied the Argentinian requests and declared that the United States would stand by its British ally, the Argentine leadership was dumbfounded.27 So convinced were they of the nobility of their cause that they simply assumed the United States and the whole world would line up with Argentine national ambitions. The Argentinians felt bitter about the rebuff, as the junta had never seriously considered that the United States would not wholeheartedly support an Argentine dictatorship and abandon its closest ally.
Fer shame... yah get an 'F' on yer homework.
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Originally posted by Skydancer
"You know - i am not trying to be smart or start a flame here.. but i am very suprised the US did not help us in the falklands. "
And thats just one of the reasons I think we should stayed out of Iraq!
According to an article about the Falklands in Air & Space the Argentine government requested U.S. Intellligence when the British decided they wanted those sheep.
The request was denied.
:aok
But then again, I don't know if Margret Thatcher asked the U.S. to put carrier battle group off the Falklands to protect the British fleet.:D
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Maggie wanted it to be a Royal Navy show.. to that end the US support was logistal only.. refueling, intel, support, materials where appropriate. The Brits did a heluva job.. but it should be noted there were hero's on both sides in that little tussle.