Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: agent 009 on April 28, 2005, 09:50:21 PM
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Finnish 109 knockoff. No slats, wide landing gear.
http://frhewww.physik.uni-freiburg....sch/109/wvl.htm
http://www.saunalahti.fi/veijju/ma00.html
cockpit
http://www.preservedaxisaircraft.co...y%20Cockpit.jpg
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Nothing to do with a knockoff, it's a completely independent design...only thing similar is the powerplant...
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It has a slight resemblance to LaGG-3, doesn't it?
-C+
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It has same scoops, same upsidown motor concept. same armament. So it is to a degree a knockoff, an upgrade perhaps a better word.
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Originally posted by agent 009
It has same scoops, same upsidown motor concept. same armament. So it is to a degree a knockoff, an upgrade perhaps a better word.
So does this, but if you call it a 109 knock-off you might upset the Spit dweebs :D
(http://www.unrealaircraft.com/hybrid/images/Hdbspit_1.jpeg)
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Um not exactly. not same scoops, no armament.
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The Finnish fighter does NOT have the same oil cooler and radiator scoops as the 109. It has the same engine and prop. So in your mind the Spitfire is a knock-off of the Hurricane? Same engine and prop. Same armament.
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If you have a look at the photo of finnish plane you can see scoops are same placement & design as 109.
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109 rocks.
3rd rate countries can't copy 109 well-see Hispanos, Avias variants of the 109.
so this finnish fighter prolly sucks bellybutton too.
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Actually no, it could outclimb & outmaeuver G-6. the ones made in Czeclosovakia & Spain did not have right props or motors, but the Finnish one did.
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same engine and prop, but larger wing...
that wing had to be draggier and heavier than that of the 109.
they say it had the same speed as a G6, but I cal BS.
here's some links that actually work :)
http://frhewww.physik.uni-freiburg.de/~jaensch/109/wvl.htm
http://www.samoloty.ow.pl/str135.htm
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Spit had larger wing, & it was not heavier & draggier.
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spit had an elliptical wing. that's different.
Also, I am a little confused. there's another Finnish fighter called Myrsky, has a radial engine but the landing gear arrangement looks a lot like that of the Pyörremyrsky, I wonder if the wing is the same.
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Still bigger.
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but elliptical. that's the best wing, cause it has minimal induced drag.
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& it was designed by Heinkel.
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VL Pyörremyrsky began when the Air Force ordered two new Finnish fighters into design phase: VL Pyörremyrsky and VL Puuska. The design was given following basic parameters:
- At least 50 km/h faster then the fastest enemy bomber
- If it is faster than enemy fighters, it may be less agile and worse climber
- If it is slower than enemy fighters, it must be better climber and more agile
Pyörremyrsky had larger wing than Me 109, so it was better in turning combat, but hence slower than the Me 109 G.
First Me 109 Gs arrived to Finland in March 1943, so the test flight results were used in the continued design of Pyörremyrsky. Notice that its design had been already started before Me 109s arrived,. In Autumm 1943 the State Aircraft Factory offered five different Pyörremyrsky variants for production: PM-1 to PM-5, plus the subvariants PM4-a and PM-4b and PM-6.
Of those two were chosen for further design, with names Puuska and Pyörremyrsky. Puuska was to be a light weight, very agile, fast, excellent climber - with no armor and one cannon, with possible two machine guns on wings.
Puuska's design and prototype construction were cancelled though.
One example of Pyörremyrsky was built.
VL Pyörremyrsky had DB-605 AC engine with 1475 hp, one 20 mm cannon, two 12,7 mm LKK 42 machineguns. Top speed on sea level 522 km / h, 620 km/h at 6400 meters. Flight time 1h50mins with normal fuel, plus two extra fuel tanks could be carried on wings.
When Pyörremyrsky test flights began it was found to be more agile than the Me 109 G and easier to fly, but war had already ended for Finland and the Air Force had enough Me 109 fighters for peace time rquirements, so the development was cancelled.
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Put some photos of the Pyörremyrsky online, here:
http://www.byterapers.com/~grendel/scan/aviation/pyorremyrsky/
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Interesting. I do recall reading about Finnish pilots getting G-2's
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Originally posted by spitfiremkv
same engine and prop, but larger wing...
that wing had to be draggier and heavier than that of the 109.
they say it had the same speed as a G6, but I cal BS.
The fact that you make statements like that based on a totally insufficient data only shows your ignorance, even if your lottery would turn out to be correct.
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It would appear that 1st G-2's arrived March 43 in Finland. It says below 29 3 1043, 1043 has to be a typo.
Me 109 G-2:
"On 29.3.1043 after captain Luukkanen and Oberleutnant Götz had briefed me about the technical and flying characteristics of the plane, I flew a 35 minute familiarization flight at 700 meters and made one landing. I had no problems whatsoever, the plane was easy to fly and I had no trouble in landing."
- Joel Savonen, Finnish fighter ace. 8 victories. Source: Memoirs of a reserve military aviator 1934-1945.
Me 109 G-2:
"In 1943 Mauno Fräntilä went to Austria together with 17 other pilots to fly the first Messerschmitts to Finland.
We didn´t know the language. We sat in the cockpit and just looked around. The Germans were standing by our side. The plane was quite new for them as well. After a few introductory flights the Finnish pilots already prepared to fly home. The Germans said hold on and explained that you have not flown enough.
Well, we reminded that there is a war going on in Finland and that we are in a hurry. The planes are needed immediately and so we left."
- Mauno Fräntilä, Finnish fighter ace. 5 1/2 victories. Source: Finnish Virtual Pilots Association: fighter ace Mauno Fräntilä was creating the glory of the war pilots.
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Actually the first G-2's arrived in Finland on 13th March 1943, there were 16 G-2's in the first batch.
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Hehe Scholzie:
"So does this, but if you call it a 109 knock-off you might upset the Spit dweebs "
Why so? - because this particular aircraft performed as good or better than a 109 with the same engine;)
And it has bigger wings...
That Finnish plane looks quite good. Cockpit is a tad far back though.
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If you look close at the photos, the wing where it attaches to the fuselage looks very much like the Spit wing. It's slightly bent angle looks a bit like Corsair as well. Forward Cockpit visibility seems a bit better than 109.
Yak 3 was also cross between elements of Spit & 109. One should bear in mind when talking about these later designs, ( early 40's ), Yak, Mustang, & this Finnish one that it is easier to design a winner airplane when one has 2 winners already in place, ( 109 & Spit ), to use as springboard for ideas.