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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Toad on April 29, 2005, 12:32:55 AM

Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: Toad on April 29, 2005, 12:32:55 AM
Who would vote to spare him?

U.S. soldier sentenced to death (http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/04/28/akbar.trial.ap/index.html)

Quote
A military jury sentenced a soldier to death Thursday for a grenade and rifle attack on his own comrades during the opening days of the Iraq invasion, a barrage that killed two officers and that prosecutors said was driven by religious extremism.
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: GREENTENERAL on April 29, 2005, 12:46:25 AM
I would not spare him, but I am curios as to why he joined the military if he harbored those feelings for his fellow muslims.
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: Pongo on April 29, 2005, 01:01:24 AM
I would have firing squaded him 18 months ago.
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: FUNKED1 on April 29, 2005, 01:01:26 AM
Somebody named Akbar flipped out and killed Americans?




Sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssshocking. (http://www.dolland.net/loveline/sound/drops/shocking.mp3)
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: Steve on April 29, 2005, 01:22:16 AM
Quote
I would have firing squaded him 18 months ago.


Amen
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: jetb123 on April 29, 2005, 01:24:32 AM
Quote
Originally posted by GREENTENERAL
I would not spare him, but I am curios as to why he joined the military if he harbored those feelings for his fellow muslims.
Quoted for truth.
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: Vulcan on April 29, 2005, 01:27:42 AM
Hmmm heres a question, isn't capital punishment still common in many Islamic countries?

If so why don't they stop ofsquealing each other?
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: Yeager on April 29, 2005, 01:30:49 AM
muslims kill more muslims than anybody else.

Islam is the most ****ed up religion on planet earth by a very large margin.
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: GREENTENERAL on April 29, 2005, 01:44:20 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Yeager
muslims kill more muslims than anybody else.

Islam is the most ****ed up religion on planet earth by a very large margin.


Actually, if I remember correctly, Muslam is the same as Christianity in most respects. The differences being that they beleive that Mohammed was a prophet and that Christ was also a prophet, but not the son of god. Other than that, the philosophy of both religions are pretty much the same.
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: jetb123 on April 29, 2005, 01:46:25 AM
Quote
Originally posted by GREENTENERAL
Actually, if I remember correctly, Muslam is the same as Christianity in most respects. The differences being that they beleive that Mohammed was a prophet and that Christ was also a prophet, but not the son of god. Other than that, the philosophy of both religions are pretty much the same.
 Don't know if I read wrong, but I believe in christianity, and how I was taught is, Christ was the son of god.
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: Pongo on April 29, 2005, 01:46:33 AM
If your comparing to dark ages christianity.
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: bunch on April 29, 2005, 01:58:26 AM
Quote
Originally posted by jetb123
Don't know if I read wrong, but I believe in christianity, and how I was taught is Christ was the son of god.


if god had a kid i'd bet the mother was some SNATCH[/b], cause no god should settle for anything less
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: GREENTENERAL on April 29, 2005, 02:23:21 AM
Quote
Originally posted by jetb123
Don't know if I read wrong, but I believe in christianity, and how I was taught is, Christ was the son of god.


I don't know if I read wrong, but the basic philosophy for both religions is generally the same regardless, meaning that they beleive in the same PHILOSOPHICAL principles.

I am not a Muslim or Christian in the orthodox meaning of those words. And those that preach violence are not either, weather they choose to call themselves Muslims or Christians.

What I am trying to say is that the religion of Muslam is not much different from Christianity, so what we are dealing with when it comes to violent groups are fanatics, and the fanatic personality type can justify doing anything, regardless of their religion, even if it goes completely against the grain of that religions underlying philosophy.

Throughout history and even now, there are fanatics everywhere in every religion, but I would not let their actions cloud my judgement of that religion. from what I have seen, most of these fanactics have not bothered to study or comprehened the basic teachings of their own religion.
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: Skydancer on April 29, 2005, 03:50:41 AM
GREENTENERL

"What I am trying to say is that the religion of Muslam is not much different from Christianity, so what we are dealing with when it comes to violent groups are fanatics, and the fanatic personality type can justify doing anything, regardless of their religion, even if it goes completely against the grain of that religions underlying philosophy.

Throughout history and even now, there are fanatics everywhere in every religion, but I would not let their actions cloud my judgement of that religion. from what I have seen, most of these fanactics have not bothered to study or comprehened the basic teachings of their own religion."

Bang on.

So Catholics are evil fanatics? what about the IRA?
Ah maybe Protestants are evil? the UDA? anyone?
Or all Buddists? Or all Israelis? Terrorists?

Religion is used as a justification for evil acts and always has been. Whatever the religion it doesn't matter. From the Crusades, to our modern time. that doesn't make the religion evil or those who follow it. It only makes those that commit these evil acts and then hide behind their religion evil.

I know many decent Muslims in my work and outside. Many people in Muslim nations were as horrified as the rest of us when 9/11 happened.

Personaly I don't follow a religion. i havbe my beliefs and they are for me. I don't excuse my actions by claiming somne other being wished it so.
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: Staga on April 29, 2005, 04:27:55 AM
Killing two adult soldiers = death
Raping and killing 11 years old girl = life

Guess Ronghi got special treatment.
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: Curval on April 29, 2005, 04:59:14 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Pongo
If your comparing to dark ages christianity.


lol..yup.  We stopped calling them heathens a couple of hundred years ago.  They still use their "infidel" rethoric though.
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: stantond on April 29, 2005, 07:05:30 AM
Christianity, Muslim, and Jewish religions all share god.  The Jewish and Muslim religions do not believe that Jesus was the son of god, cannot forgive sins, and through belief in him obtain forgiveness of sins and eternal life.  Both Jewish and Muslim religions have codes and laws you must follow, dietary restrictions, and the believe if something bad happens that is because god is 'punishing' you.  

For example, in the Muslim religion if your house burns down will anyone help you build a new one?  Probably not because you obviously sinned to the point that god is punishing you.  If someone helps you that may bring the wrath of god upon them because god did that for a reason.

As most people know, Christians do not take that view.  When was the last time you heard a Muslim saying, "We need to Love our Enemy".  I think the answer is never.



Regards,

Malta
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: Skydancer on April 29, 2005, 07:08:55 AM
Ah so we love our enemy by going to war and blowing the poop out of him!

aaah enlightenment!:rolleyes:
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: DREDIOCK on April 29, 2005, 07:19:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Pongo
If your comparing to dark ages christianity.


If you think about it. the farther back you go, the more true you are to the religeon.

Its been man thats twisted religeon to what it is today. Not god.
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: storch on April 29, 2005, 07:48:06 AM
I don't know if execution is the severest form of punishment.  consider that he will now be a "martyr" and (according to his belief system) be entitled to 72 perpetual virgins and all the burger king whoppers he can eat.  he will used as an example of what other moslims in western military services could do.  let's face it he killed more Americans in anger than any of the iraqis ever did in combat.  I think languishing in solitary for the rest of his natural life would be the worst sort of punishment.
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: storch on April 29, 2005, 08:05:05 AM
Quote
Originally posted by stantond
Christianity, Muslim, and Jewish religions all share god.  The Jewish and Muslim religions do not believe that Jesus was the son of god, cannot forgive sins, and through belief in him obtain forgiveness of sins and eternal life.  Both Jewish and Muslim religions have codes and laws you must follow, dietary restrictions, and the believe if something bad happens that is because god is 'punishing' you.  

For example, in the Muslim religion if your house burns down will anyone help you build a new one?  Probably not because you obviously sinned to the point that god is punishing you.  If someone helps you that may bring the wrath of god upon them because god did that for a reason.

As most people know, Christians do not take that view.  When was the last time you heard a Muslim saying, "We need to Love our Enemy".  I think the answer is never.



Regards,

Malta


actually the moslims worship allah.  this is an arabic word that means roughly "the god".  I don't believe they worship God.  I think they are as many of us are, deceived into worshiping something other than the true God.
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: lazs2 on April 29, 2005, 08:38:24 AM
ok staga... so you would be oppossed to executing him then?   based on....?

If killing one gets you life and killing two or more get's you death.. that doesn't seem so unfair to me.

lazs
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: Sixpence on April 29, 2005, 09:52:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
 I think they are as many of us are, deceived into worshiping something other than the true God.


My God is the true God, and you are wrong and a sinner to think otherwise
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: GtoRA2 on April 29, 2005, 09:59:22 AM
Ignore stega, he prolly just got rejected by a US soldier and is now bitter.
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: Pongo on April 29, 2005, 10:06:10 AM
Quote
Originally posted by stantond
 

For example, in the Muslim religion if your house burns down will anyone help you build a new one?  Probably not because you obviously sinned to the point that god is punishing you.  If someone helps you that may bring the wrath of god upon them because god did that for a reason.

As most people know, Christians do not take that view.  When was the last time you heard a Muslim saying, "We need to Love our Enemy".  I think the answer is never.


Regards,

Malta


wow, I guess we know why you see so few firetrucks in muslim countries now. lol
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: Staga on April 29, 2005, 10:12:41 AM
Well I'd say raping and murdering a 11y old girl you were supposed to protect is at least as bad crime as killing two soldiers.

Your mileage may very.
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: GtoRA2 on April 29, 2005, 10:21:03 AM
Why dont you supply some links so people know what your talking about for a change?


Airhead needs to troll you some more.
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: storch on April 29, 2005, 10:24:16 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Sixpence
My God is the true God, and you are wrong and a sinner to think otherwise


hey!!!! you aren't as dumb as some folks claim afterall!!!
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: GtoRA2 on April 29, 2005, 10:28:21 AM
Since this scum bag apologized for the crime, he in effect admitted doing it. I say he should not get his auto appeal and be shot. Today.
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: GreenCloud on April 29, 2005, 10:33:29 AM
I saw slwo torture..but hey..I just liek to hurt bad people..

but since we have to many sissies here..I guess just kill him...think killing him is a bit of easy way out..

but If there is a heaven and hell..hopefully hes goin south
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: BUG_EAF322 on April 29, 2005, 10:35:48 AM
I think the killing of a 11 years old girl after raping is much more tragic.

Could it be that he was in another state and it was a military court.
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: Seagoon on April 29, 2005, 11:08:09 AM
Islam and Christianity are radically different religions, here is an online summary of many of the core differences:
Islam and Christianity - Comparison (http://answering-islam.org.uk/Intro/comparison.html)

Perhaps the greatest difference lies in the fact that in Christianity, Christ calls on his followers to be willing to die for the faith and suffer persecution. While in Islam, the duty of Jihad, or being willing to fight and kill for the spread of Islam. For instance the following are two of the favorite Suras from the Quran quoted by Jihadists:

[9.123] O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.


- SEAGOON
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: Rino on April 29, 2005, 11:36:20 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
ok staga... so you would be oppossed to executing him then?   based on....?

If killing one gets you life and killing two or more get's you death.. that doesn't seem so unfair to me.

lazs


     Staga ain't gonna be happy til they start killing US GIs for
jaywalking.  Ok, probably not even then.
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: stantond on April 29, 2005, 12:15:05 PM
Just to go a bit further.... These anecdotes were from a lecture given after 911 at St. Joan of Arc Catholic Church by a U.S. Air Force Major.  He had worked and lived in Saudi Arabia and other Muslim asian countries. His focus was an attempt to communicate Isalm ideals in Saudi Arabia and it’s peoples motives:

If a car accident occurs both men are put in jail. While one party may be considered (in a western view) at fault, both are guilty because god chose them to be in an accident. A fire department is necessary to put out fires, much like evil. However, where it started was caused by sin or evil. In general, any misfortune that befalls you is due to your not "living right" or living in the law. Don't expect much help.

Women are third class citizens. Public chopping off of hands and feet is common. Knowledge is power, so forget giving the instruction or maintenance manual to some Private. If that happened, then they would have all that knowledge and power.  All marriages are arranged by an Uncle. You have no choice in who you marry (maybe you can bribe the Uncle?).  

Practicing religions other than Islam is outlawed and punishable by death. Apparently some leniency is provided to US troops there in a 'don't ask don't tell' way.  Also, (and I find this horrible) alcohol is forbidden.  If you don't know your heritage and bloodline, you must have been a slave at one time.  Direct bloodlines from Mohammed are the best, of course.

These practices are still a part of Saudi Arabian culture which is part of what Osama Bin Laden was accusing the United States of corrupting. It's not hard for me to see why they have been struggling to keep up with the rest of the world.  

You may consider this all 'hear say'.


Regards,

Malta


p.s. A significant achievement was having the Saudi Army use MRE's instead of herding sheep for food when on maneuvers.  I though that was hilarious.
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: Raider179 on April 29, 2005, 12:27:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by stantond
Christianity, Muslim, and Jewish religions all share god.  The Jewish and Muslim religions do not believe that Jesus was the son of god, cannot forgive sins, and through belief in him obtain forgiveness of sins and eternal life.  Both Jewish and Muslim religions have codes and laws you must follow, dietary restrictions, and the believe if something bad happens that is because god is 'punishing' you.  

For example, in the Muslim religion if your house burns down will anyone help you build a new one?  Probably not because you obviously sinned to the point that god is punishing you.  If someone helps you that may bring the wrath of god upon them because god did that for a reason.

As most people know, Christians do not take that view.  When was the last time you heard a Muslim saying, "We need to Love our Enemy".  I think the answer is never.



Regards,

Malta


LoL man where did you get all that? Hey, Christians might say "we need to love our enemy" but then they go drop bombs all over his ass. Just saying something doesn't mean you actually practice it. just FYI In the Qu'ran it says they are only allowed to fight in defense.

Like someone else said what we see are extremist groups that are abusing Islam to further their own goals and visions. As for the house building thing I guess that was a joke, or at least I hope so. You act like christianity doesnt have laws. What do you call the 10 commandments?
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: Staga on April 29, 2005, 12:38:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GtoRA2
Why dont you supply some links so people know what your talking about for a change?


Airhead needs to troll you some more.


You don't know how to use Google?
I already gave you the name but if you don't know how to use Google you're beyond help.
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: Raider179 on April 29, 2005, 12:43:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Seagoon
Islam and Christianity are radically different religions, here is an online summary of many of the core differences:
Islam and Christianity - Comparison (http://answering-islam.org.uk/Intro/comparison.html)

Perhaps the greatest difference lies in the fact that in Christianity, Christ calls on his followers to be willing to die for the faith and suffer persecution. While in Islam, the duty of Jihad, or being willing to fight and kill for the spread of Islam. For instance the following are two of the favorite Suras from the Quran quoted by Jihadists:

[9.123] O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.


- SEAGOON


Seagoon I completely disagree with you on that the duty of Jihad is to be willing to fight and kill to spread Islam.

1) Neither of your quotes say anything about spreading Islam. What your 2nd quote refers to is a tax that was required to be paid by christians and jews who choose to live in Islamic lands and worship. Kinda of a "you want to stay, you gotta pay" It was an actual tax.

2) As long as we are using quotes to prove things how bout this one.

Sura 2:190

Fight in the Cause of Allah THOSE WHO FIGHT YOU, but DO NOT TRANSGRESS LIMITS; For Allah loveth not transgressors.

or this one

Sura 2:193 And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or opression and there prevail justice and faith in Allah, but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression.

or this one Sura 2 256

Let there be no compulsion in Religion.

but maybe the best

Sura 5: 69 Those who believe, those who follow the Jewish, and the sabians and the Christians, any who believe in Allah and the last day, and work righteousness, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they greive.

And just FYI Islam believes Jesus was an apostle.

Too many people don't understand that jihad does not just mean the physical act of violence. It is also the mental struggle that Muslims undertake dealing with their faith, daily lives, and troubles.
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: Staga on April 29, 2005, 12:45:52 PM
http://www.pstripes.com/ed080200a.html

Quote

Ronghi also told a soldier that he thought his outstanding record would get him out of trouble, Gwaltney told the panel. Gwaltney then asked if those statements sound like someone who is willing to accept responsibility for his actions.

Government attorneys also said that Ronghi had told another soldier that it was easy to get away with crimes in a Third World country, and said that after being arrested, he had told a guard at Camp Bondsteel that he couldn’t help himself — that Merita looked so hot and he was so lonely.

Ronghi also told a soldier that he just wanted the companionship of a young girl, attorneys said.


Glad to see at least Rino is supporting this rapist and killer.
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: Seagoon on April 29, 2005, 01:23:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Raider179
Seagoon I completely disagree with you on that the duty of Jihad is to be willing to fight and kill to spread Islam.
Too many people don't understand that jihad does not just mean the physical act of violence. It is also the mental struggle that Muslims undertake dealing with their faith, daily lives, and troubles.


Raider, please understand I don't make this up, I read Muslims, and particularly the Muslims who frame and express the Islamic philosophy of the Jihadists. The idea that Jihad is defensive or not an armed confrontation is only held by liberal Muslims and Muslim apologists in the West. The history of Muhammad himself shows how it isn't true. But don't take my word - read theirs. For instance (and I would STRONGLY encourage you to read this entire article) the following is from one of the most widely read English Language Islamic websites, Khilafah.com : Jihad: The Highest Peak of Islam  (http://www.khilafah.com/home/category.php?DocumentID=2817&TagID=2)

"Myth: Jihad is only defensive

Another distortion that is promoted is the idea that Jihad is only defensive. The protagonists of this idea again utilise certain misinterpretations to justify their positions.

"Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress the limits. For Allah loves not the transgressors” [TMQ Al-Baqarah: 190].

“And if they incline to peace, you incline to it also, and trust in Allah. Verily! He is the hearer, the knower” [TMQ Al-A’raf: 61].

These two verses however, cannot abrogate the 119 other verses of Qur’an that suggest that Jihad is not merely limited to defensive war alone. These 119 verses, which are general and absolute, indicate that Jihad encompasses all of the following types of war:

1. Defensive war
2. Offensive war
3. Limited war
4. Unlimited war
5. Protective war

Before we go into the details of the subject let us first clarify what we mean by the terms “general” (aam) and “absolute” (mutlaq). When a verse is described as “general” it means that it covers everything related to the subject. “Absolute” means that the verse is not limited in a particular aspect of the subject in question. If a verse is general, another verse (or evidence from Sunnah) is required to make it specific (khass) otherwise it must remain as general. Similarly if the verse is absolute another evidence is required to “limit” (muqayad) it, otherwise it to remains absolute.

The verses concerning Jihad were revealed as general and absolute without limitation. Accordingly an evidence from Shari’ah is required to limit these verses concerning Jihad. However there are no evidences from Qur’an or Sunnah that place limitations on Jihad. Thus, Jihad encompasses all of the aforementioned types of war.

There are many verses concerning Jihad that could be drawn upon to illustrate this understanding. It is sufficient to focus on Surah At-Taubah (Repentance), which is one of the last Surahs to be revealed. Thus no one can claim that the verses are abrogated, limited or specified by later revelations.

"Fight against such of those who have been given the scripture as believe not in Allah nor the last day, and forbid not that which Allah hath-forbidden by his messenger, and follow not the Deen of truth, until they pay the Jizya readily, being brought low” [TMQ At-Taubah: 29].

"Verily! The number of the months with Allah is twelve months by Allah's ordinance in the day that he created the heavens and the earth, four of them are sacred: that is the right Deen, so wrong not yourselves in them. And wage war on all the idolaters as they are waging war on all of you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto him)” [TMQ At-Taubah: 36].

"O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them, their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end” [TMQ At-Taubah: 73].

"Verily! Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the garden will be theirs: they shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain. It is a promise which is binding on him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur’an. Whoever fulfils his covenant better than Allah? Rejoice then in your bargain that you have made, for that is the supreme triumph" [TMQ At-Taubah: 111].

"O you who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto him)" [TMQ At-Taubah: 123].

If we examine these verses we see that they include:

“Fight against those who…have been given the scriptures as believe in Allah and the last day…until they pay the jizya.”

“Fight all the idolaters as they fight you.”

“Fight against the disbelievers and the hypocrites and be harsh with them.”

“ …the garden, will be theirs, they shall fight in the way of Allah.”

“Fight those of the disbelievers…”

These verses command Muslims to fight, generally and absolutely. The verses impose no restrictions or conditions. Therefore this is clear evidence that “Jihad” may be offensive or defensive.

These verses of At-Taubah were revealed under certain circumstances. The following verses chronologically precede these verses of Surah At-Taubah. They provide an insight into the circumstances in which Surah At-Taubah was revealed.

“Let not the unbelievers think that they can outstrip (Allah's purpose). Verily! They cannot escape” [TMQ: At-Taubah: 2].

“Make ready for them all you can of (armed) force and of horses tethered, in order that you may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy, and others beside them whom you know not. Allah knows them. Whatsoever you spend in the way of Allah it will be repaid to you in full, and you will not be, wronged” [TMQ Al-Anfal: 60].

“And if they incline to peace, you also incline to it, and trust in Allah. Verily! He is the hearer, the knower” [TMQ Al-A’raf: 61].

The meaning of abrogation (naskh) is that the rule (hukm) of one revelation is completely cancelled by another later revelation. When something is specified it is abrogation of a kind i.e. partial abrogation but it is only in the stated areas of the subject. The criteria for abrogation and specification is that the abrogating or specifying revelation must have been revealed at a later date. It should be noticed that the verses of Surah At-Taubah were the last to be revealed concerning Jihad.

A misunderstanding of abrogation and specification by some of the Muslims may have resulted in these people saying that Jihad is a purely defensive war. Others however are happier distorting Islam in order to please the rulers in the Muslim lands or the Western lands rather than please Allah (Subhanahu Wa ta’ala).

However a further point to be clarified is that the mere appearance of contradiction between two statements (either Qur’an or Sunnah) is not sufficient to claim abrogation. There must be a divine evidence to state that the abrogation is actually relating to the abrogated. There must be a clear context concerning the occurrence of the abrogation. There are a number of incidents where two, apparently contradicting revelations where implemented in total compatibility. Concerning the above verses from At-Taubah they should be understood without abrogation.

Two verses may refer to one subject, such as Jihad, but differ in their context and situation. Therefore one verse may be applicable to a particular situation, and a different verse, seemingly contradictory, is applicable in a totally different situation. Consequently there is no abrogation.

When we examine the verses of Jihad we see that they refer to the same subject but in different situations.

Therefore, Jihad cannot be understood as being neither purely defensive nor purely offensive. The two verses quoted at the beginning relate to the situation of peace and the verses from At-Taubah relate to the situation of conflict. Conflict and peace are two different situations. To explain this, one must look to the accepted explanations of Qur’an and the opinion of our great scholars. "

- SEAGOON
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: DREDIOCK on April 29, 2005, 02:22:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
hey!!!! you aren't as dumb as some folks claim afterall!!!


Says who??:D
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: mosgood on April 29, 2005, 02:27:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
If you think about it. the farther back you go, the more true you are to the religeon.

Its been man thats twisted religeon to what it is today. Not god.


Religion is a man made concept.  GOD did not make religion.  God is just God.
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: Sixpence on April 29, 2005, 02:27:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by storch
hey!!!! you aren't as dumb as some folks claim afterall!!!


After all  ;)
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: GtoRA2 on April 29, 2005, 02:38:27 PM
Well No need for this now that the banana posted it.
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: Cobra412 on April 29, 2005, 02:57:28 PM
Toad since very few here can stay on subject, no I would not vote to spare him.

If his religion could cause problems with him doing his job in the military then he should have never joined in the first place. That goes for anyone regardless what of their religion may be. I've seen this too many times where people used the excuse that their religion was their reason for not wanting to do their job.    

He only showed remorse because he knew he wouldn't get a slap on the hand for his actions and now his life was really in jeopardy. He purposely killed and injured his fellow soldiers and betrayed his country in the process. This person is a coward and a traitor.

Quote
"I want to apologize for the attack that occurred. I felt that my life was in jeopardy, and I had no other options. I also want to ask you for forgiveness,"
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: GtoRA2 on April 29, 2005, 03:06:18 PM
Staga
 after reading that your still a tool.

 It was a plea bargin.

 Who knows that back story behind it but maybe the prosecuter felt the guy might have walked and this was less risky.
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: Staga on April 29, 2005, 03:34:34 PM
Eh guy admitted to his fellow soldiers what he had done and actually bragged about it?
I'd be quite surprised if anyone could had walk away from that one...

Not my problem but I find it a bit odd that Ronghi got life for killing and raping a child and this one gets death sentence after killing two adult soldiers.
Which one is bigger crime?
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: Staga on April 29, 2005, 03:38:09 PM
Heh what a stupid question; your martial court already answered to that one.
Guess raping and killing childrens isn't that big deal in US than killing two adult soldiers.
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: GtoRA2 on April 29, 2005, 03:50:02 PM
Let me spell it out for you.


Try a capitial case=not a sure thing.

Taking a guilt plea for murder= Sure thing.


He could have walked if things went wrong in the case.



But all this really is to you is another reason to be the poster child for the amerihaters.
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: GREENTENERAL on April 29, 2005, 03:54:19 PM
From what i understand so far, the military has it's own judicial system in place, and it is somewhat different from the normal judicial system that is in place for the rest of the country.

My question is, what are the main differences, and how does this effect the outcome of trials that are of a simular nature? What are some of the plusses and minuses to the military sytem?

Maybe someone who is or has been in the military could clarify this.  There is a difference between looking at a car and taking one for a test drive.
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: TheDudeDVant on April 29, 2005, 03:55:16 PM
ty Raider for the post.. 8)
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: tapakeg on April 29, 2005, 06:11:01 PM
I remember when I was in the 101st how many American GI's (predominantly African-Americans) who were turning to be Muslems.  I knew there would be trouble if we ever went to war with a Muslem nation.  And that was 1990-96

One of the soldiers killed was from my old unit.  I didn't know him though.


FRY THE F*&^%&.





Tapakeg
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: Staga on April 29, 2005, 06:19:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GtoRA2


But all this really is to you is another reason to be the poster child for the amerihaters.


You look so cool and adult when using that world "Amerihater"  :)
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: GtoRA2 on April 29, 2005, 06:35:17 PM
It is fitting for you.

I think you are the only one I have used it on.
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: Maverick on April 29, 2005, 09:47:55 PM
GTO,

Staga isn't the virulent spewer of hate for America. He's a troll, nothing much else. If you want to see the actual poster child of the term you used for staga you have to look no further than gsholtz.
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: Drunky on April 29, 2005, 10:38:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GREENTENERAL
Actually, if I remember correctly, Muslam is the same as Christianity in most respects. The differences being that they beleive that Mohammed was a prophet and that Christ was also a prophet, but not the son of god. Other than that, the philosophy of both religions are pretty much the same.


I disagree that that are pretty much the same.

Mohammed was a prophet and didn't like the Christianic slant of the Holy Trinity.  It reeked of polytheism.  There should be only one god, he reasoned, not three and after visiting Mecca he soon relocated to Medina due to difficulty of attaining believers.

After a successful stay in Medina, Mohammed soon returned to Mecca and so it began in earnest.

I also remember (but can't locate it anymore) that somewhere in the Koran that Mohammed said that it was okay to lie to Christians because they weren't worth telling the truth to.
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: Rino on April 30, 2005, 04:25:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Staga
http://www.pstripes.com/ed080200a.html

 

Glad to see at least Rino is supporting this rapist and killer.


     Musta missed that part of my post.  I also don't have a time
machine so I can't go back and fix mistakes.  I thought you
Euro guys were almost all anti-Death Penalty.  I guess it's
different if it's only an American being killed.  

     Of course that whole trial thing is so...inconvenient.  A nice
trial by public opinion and beheading is alot more immediate.
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: Tumor on April 30, 2005, 07:13:07 PM
We should bring back boiling-in-oil, just for this clown.
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: Pooh21 on April 30, 2005, 11:44:57 PM
boiling in pigsblood and JD, no virgins for j00!
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: Mini D on May 01, 2005, 11:09:43 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Staga
Not my problem but I find it a bit odd that Ronghi got life for killing and raping a child and this one gets death sentence after killing two adult soldiers.
Which one is bigger crime?
You're talking as if someone here had any say on this staga.

Question for anyone: Who feels that the rape murder of an 11 year old girl merrits the death penalty?

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess most people's response to that Staga. Most people are going to go for the death penalty on that one. So, what you're actually finding odd is why a group of 12 people that do not post on this bbs felt otherwise, or why a prosecutor decided waive persuing the death penalty in lieu of a plea of guilty.

We recently had a man near here rape and murder a 14 year old girl. While everyone was still searching for this girl, he then raped and murdered her best friend. He was finally caught and tried to pretend to be insane (as if these were the actions of a sane man) but phsycologists weren't getting on board with that. When he realized the insanity plea wouldn't work, he plead guilty to avoid the death penalty. I don't know a single person that didn't want this guy to fry. It doesn't speak for the people in the state and it doesn't speak for the country when things like this turn out the way they do.

Read up on the Ronghi case and see what the findings and actions against the unit were. Then you'll understand how seriously the military took this. Maybe then, you won't have to throw it out as if there's any significance to it other than your tendancy to point at something really horrible and pretend your not implying anything by doing it. Hell... maybe then you and nuke wouldn't have so much in common.
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: Drunky on May 01, 2005, 11:35:09 AM
Wow, MiniD.  Good post.

Wished this would have been the second post in this thread.
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: GREENTENERAL on May 02, 2005, 05:42:05 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Drunky
I disagree that that are pretty much the same.

Mohammed was a prophet and didn't like the Christianic slant of the Holy Trinity.  It reeked of polytheism.  There should be only one god, he reasoned, not three and after visiting Mecca he soon relocated to Medina due to difficulty of attaining believers.

After a successful stay in Medina, Mohammed soon returned to Mecca and so it began in earnest.

I also remember (but can't locate it anymore) that somewhere in the Koran that Mohammed said that it was okay to lie to Christians because they weren't worth telling the truth to.


1 god, 100 gods, my gods hair is purple, my gods hair is red. These details have nothing to do with the philosophy of a religion.  We hear about these details every day because they are of prime concern for those that need to justify their actions.

I'm shure that if I cloud-bust any religion, I can find justification for any action.  Most alcoholics opt to drink in bars.  Why?  Because they are surrounded by justification for drinking.  I have found that of all of the decisions I have made in my life, the ones that required justifaction were wrong, and have become regrets.

Adopting a personal philosophy, weather it is contained in a religion or not, should require some personal change, as we are not perfect.  Unfortunately most are not willing to change, and simply mold a religion around their current beleifs.  They make it into a machine that pats their back for them.  

I have met good Christians, Muslims, and people of many other religions, and for some strange reason, their religion is simple.
Title: U.S. soldier sentenced to death
Post by: Tumor on May 02, 2005, 12:24:13 PM
WTF??  Whats all this mass common-sense hysteria in the O'club all about? :)