Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Toad on May 04, 2005, 02:17:32 AM
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Voting on Thursday..... who's handicapping this race?
Will Blair be the first leader in Labour's history to win three terms in a row?
Has any English movie star threatened to move to Canada if Blair wins?
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Hardly ... during the last election he used to promise that universities will stay free.
But it was just another small lie on his way up, they arent free anymore.
Question is what choise do british have, but this small lair ?
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LIBERALS!!!!!
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Originally posted by mora
LIBERALS!!!!!
that sound almost like ALLAH AKBAR!!!
.. is there any meaning or goals behind that term ?
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Originally posted by Mr. Toad
Will Blair be the first leader in Labour's history to win three terms in a row?
Yes.
I made that prediction on this board in 2002, based on the previous election result in 2001, in which Blair won with a majority of 164 seats in the House of Commons. It would be unprecedented within the field of British politics for a majority of such magnitude to be overturned at a single election. But it would NOT be unprecedented for the opinion polls to be out by a significant margin. That happened in 1970, when Edward Heath was trailing Harold Wilson by 7% in the polls, but won with a majority of 30 seats.
My guess is that voter turnout will be low, with many people undecided as to how they will vote, if at all. People are fed up with Blair, but there's no real groundswell for change.
It's the size of Blair's majority that I'll be looking for. Some polls have predicted 100+. I wouldn't have thought it would be that much. My prediction was for between 5 and 50, and I'll put my money (but not too much!) on that. We will know for sure on Friday. Who knows, I might even be wrong!!!
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Well, when you consider the alternative...
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If I was Jackal I ought to be telling anyone who isn't English that they are an idiot a hater and to bugger off and mind their own business as they have right to comment on things that are not to do with their country.
Thank god I'm not so I won't.
Well as an Englishman I would say that its likely that Blair will win a third term.
The Liberal democrats will eat up votes from Tories and Labour. But overall I predict a reduced Labour majority.
As for what choice we have the answer is not much. Back in the 80s we had quite polarised politics. The Tories were very right wing the Labour were socialists. Liberals hovered around the middle. Nowadays realising that we Brits are a pretty conservative witha small c lot when it comes to politics most of the main parties have postioned themselves round the middleground so there is not much difference. In essence Labour basicaly represent the idea that Society has a meaning and the well off help support those less well off. University is still free for those from the lowest incomes. Its only families that can afford to pay that still have to. ( And why not when you see peiopkle complaining that their kids have to pay or they do to go to UNI and yet they have a Range Rover on the drive and live in a 200,000 plus home. Its called getting your priorities right )
The Tories in my opinion still bow to the cult of ther individual, I'm Ok jack my taxes are low so sod you. All well and good but not so great when the infastructure of the country falls apart as there is no money to maintain it.
The Libs well they seem to be more left wing than Labour these days, a rethink on uni fees, council taxand withdrawel from Iraq.
After Voting Labour all my life they have lost my vote over the Iraq war, the fact that they are spending millions replacing a nuclear sub fleet we don't need anymore, and they are losing touch with those that voted them in and begining it seems to dupe the electorate.
The Libs will most likely get my vote though I am torn as on the issue of the economy this govt has done a great job.
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Originally posted by Skydancer
The Tories in my opinion still bow to the cult of ther individual, I'm Ok jack my taxes are low so sod you. All well and good but not so great when the infastructure of the country falls apart as there is no money to maintain it.
So you think it was right and proper to have a top rate of income tax of 83% - with an investment income surcharge of a further 15%? That's the legacy the tories inherited from Labour. Of course, much of the money was spent on funding Labour sponsored charity organisations - er..., I mean loss making nationalised industries.
When the tories cut that top rate of tax to 40% - which is what it is today - tax receipts went UP. Did you know that? Keyword: Incentive.
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Maybe but they constantly fight elections promissiong tio cut tax yet spend more! It doesn't add up. If you want something you have to pay for it!
I don't mind paying if what I get is good. Take the Health service. Not perfect but one hell of a lot better now than under the Tories. Plus much better than many other countries. I'll be happy to pay taxes for that. Without it my father and mother would both now be dead.
I can't vote for a guy and his party who's only real message is to appeal to the selfish side of people's nature, rattles on and on about Blair being a Liar and seems only to come alive when making personal attacks ( bit like some people on this BBs :lol )
The tories offer nothing other than a return to the bad old days of the 80's.
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If the Poodle does win dosn't say much for the opposition.
...-Gixer
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Originally posted by Skydancer
Maybe but they constantly fight elections promissiong tio cut tax yet spend more! It doesn't add up. If you want something you have to pay for it!
I don't mind paying if what I get is good. Take the Health service. Not perfect but one hell of a lot better now than under the Tories. Plus much better than many other countries.
:lol
It DOES add up. What you're failing to take into account is the amount of money that is WASTED by Labour. They took wads of cash and simply threw it at the NHS. There was no spending plan at all. So what happened? Assisted by Gordon Brown, the level of bureaucracy in the NHS mushroomed. For every TWO NHS hospital beds, there are THREE NHS bureaucrats!!! I saw a TV programme about this. A Doctor/senior registrar compared the current situation with days gone by. 30 years ago, his hospital was run by two people - himself, and the matron. Now, it is run by layers of NHS bureaucrats - about 150 of them, all seeking to meet "govt. targets", whatever the hell that means. In a period in which nurses' pay has risen 50%, the salaries of all those bureaucrats has risen by an average 70%.
I don't believe the health service is better. I hear it's much worse, with deaths relating to MRSA hospital infections now exceeding the number of people killed on our roads. I vote with my credit card - my BUPA subscriptions cost me £1400/annum. If I believed that the NHS was any good, I would cancel my BUPA subscription and rely on the NHS. I won't be doing that any time soon.
I'm glad your parents are OK, and it's good that those less well off can get free health care, at least free at the point of "sale".
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There's a reason that the phrase "Tory scum" came about...
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Your quick guide to the British Parties:
Labour: New Labour
Liberals: Old Labour
Conservatives: New Labour Lite
Everyone Else: Also Ran Labour
- SEAGOON
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:rofl :aok
Thats pretty accurate!
We differ on many things but here we agree!
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Originally posted by Schaden
There's a reason that the phrase "Tory scum" came about...
Yeah there is. Cos you just made it up.
And on what beet and sky are discussing:
Yep, the Tories are planning on spending MORE on the health service, education, etc......and LESS on indo-spanish black afghani lesbian support groups (just an example).
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1081438631_swoop.gif)
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No doubt Blair will get in again.
Unfortunately I'm out of the country at the moment and didn't have time to register for postal so I miss out but my vote would have gone for the non-PC Veritas ............ I can almost hear Beetle and Skydancer choking from here :D.
There isn't a single reason to vote for any of the main 3 - they are all corrupt, lying, useless wasters.
To my mind the big thing to watch will be the turnout - I predict record low.
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Originally posted by Saintaw
Well, when you consider the alternative...
Now you know how we in the US felt in our last elections:)
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Yes, indeed. I see the same sentiments expressed as to the quality of the available options and the disinterest of the voters.
Amazing how alike the two situations appear to be.
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And theres me thinking that "tory scum" was a phrase used by three million plus unemployed people. Teachers and doctors working in tumbling down ,due to lack of investment, schools and hospitals. People living in substandard council housing or on the streets because the council house stock was sold off cheap. people who could see the rich getting richer, the poor getting poorer, and the growth of the "loadsa money" society where you stopped caring for others and lined your pocket the best way you could. Look after number one and to hell with everyone else.
Oh yeah it was schaden who invented it?
Purrlease.
Beetle the last time the tories were in the economy was in tatters, We spent our oil revenue on unemployment benefit, bought stupid trident missiles, let our country crumble away to the point where it looked more like India than England and why? All in the name of efficiency and saving the taxpayer money.
It costs to live in a well maintained infrastructuraly sound place nowt comes cheap these days.
As for the management thing well maybe there is some truth in that but the bigger problem is the ammount of red tape and paperwork and a lot of that is a result of the litiginous culture we are growing and the accidents aren't allowed somebody must be to blame culture.
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Originally posted by Skydancer
And theres me thinking that "tory scum" was a phrase used by three million plus unemployed people.
We're you one of them?
I was. And the 3 million mark didn't last as long as people seem to think. We hit 3m in about 1984. By the time I hit the workforce (or not, as the case may be) the unemployment rate was much lower.
And how, exactly would you compare the country now cos it hasn't gotton any better ya know.
The only difference I can see is no Tory ever tried to piss on my shoes and tell me it's raining.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1081438631_swoop.gif)
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my vote is on the flat earth society , they will come from behind u mark my words !!!!!
The problem with the political parites in the uk is ....u have blair ..he's the lieing spin bloke
then u have .....some old bloke for maggies old lot
and some ginger bloke for the other lot .....im afraid the main oposition is soooo forgetable Blair will get in again ....Have i voted ......nope ...didnt get my postal vote papers through ,am i that bothered ? ...nope the one thing they all have in common is they lie like cheap japanease watches to get your vote !!!!!besides im bloody miles away :D
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I was one of them.
It didn't last too long. But it was still a big mess and a huge waste of money.
Look at Coal. Now a hot commodity on the international market. fetching high prices. Canada is reopening mines as fast as it can. We can't because the pits were not mothballed but closed and built on. So we're sitting on a gold mine we can't actualy mine anymore. What a bloody waste. Mayb if we had invested in mining instead of Trident submarines or a war over sheep for example, we could have been getting the black gold out now.
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No-one is denying that Maggie made her fair share of mistakes.
It's the level of blatant lying that's been going on that's pissed me off. GD Blair says one thing and does another, always has done. And the power of peaceful demonstration doesnt exist in this country anymore, look at the crap that went on with student grants. Every SU in the country protested, hundreds of thousands of signatures were recorded on petitions, etc, people marched through London and what did Blair do? He closed his curtains and went ahead anyway.
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Oh and I just thought of a difference between now and Thatcherism: Under Thatcherism we didn't have thousands of scroungers from eastern bloody Europe learning one word of English (asylum!) and hopping on the next boat leaving Calais.
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I'm not saying Blair is the man for me. I agree he's getting to the point where he decides, the country does. Iraq is a good example. I don't want this country to become mini america and serve their foreign policy agenda. I would rather we took ou own decisions. Like wise I can't believe Blair wants to spent millions if not billions replacing Trident. For what. way too blunt an instrument for a war on terror!
As for the Student thing I think he's got it way wrong. But part of the problem is our constant drive to get more young people into Uni. Bring back apprenticeships, technical and vocational qualifications, let schools determine the curriculum best suited to its pupils.
Its my opinion that the high drop out and exclusion rate amongst kids is a direct result of the Tory govt introducing the national curriculum which only recognises academic achievement.
So no Mr Blair's labour is not my fave at the moment. but the Tory's are way way worse.
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Labour will win again.
I'm abstaining because there isn't a single party I can identify with(plus I have no option than to abstain 'cos they screwed my overseas vote up!).
The thing that really angers me about Blair is that everything he is promissing at this election is stuff he's been promissing for the last two elections?! Golly-geen, he's been in power for two terms but he hasn't anything at all to show for it, well, apart from taxes, debts, taxes, asylum seekers, taxes and Mandelson the tosspot! When he first got into power he blew the emergency war chest (for times of war) then moaned that he didn't have any money for the Gulf War mk2. No wonder our guys were so under equipped.
Bliar: "If you vote for me I will give you this"... if it's that good then why haven't you already 'given' me this?
I'd like anyone in power as long as it isn't Bliar, even the Green Party and that's saying something!! :)
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blair = hitler.
don't be offended.... we don't hate brits... just everything about your lifestyle and politics.
lazs
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So, I guess Blair isn't as hated and reviled over there as the American Press and the BBC would have us b'leve. True? Or not?
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Blair is probably hated as much as Bush. So if that makes Bush = Hitler too then???
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The Tories are a bunch of failed Thatcherites, Labour are a bunch of failed Thatcherites and the Liberal Democrats are a bunch of failed everything.
Vote for the only honest party, this election. Vote BNP.
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Blair is not Hitler. Hitler didn't let thousands of foreigners into Germany, build em places to live and give em millions of £s in benefits.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1081438631_swoop.gif)
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Blair and Hitler did have dubious notions of what truth is.
In ten years time, I'm going to vote Conservative - hopefully by then all the Thatcherites will be dead and buried or retired (and maybe she'll be dead too). Maybe they will have credible, proactive policies rather than ambulance-chasing, opportunistic rhetoric with all the substance of thin air.
Until that time, it looks like the local independant will get my vote...
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Dowding, I always voted local independant. They were the only ones I could identify with.
New Labour though, I think they're more Tory than the Tories!
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Originally posted by lazs2
blair = hitler.
don't be offended.... we don't hate brits... just everything about your lifestyle and politics.
lazs
So Lazs how many years of British lifestyle have you experienced to make you hate the British lifestyle? I'm guessing none and that you probably can't even point to London on a map.
...-Gixer
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Vote for the only honest party, this election. Vote BNP.
I suggested that to you a while ago. It didn't go over to well...
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I might have been joking, Wotan. But I expect they will show gains in several flashpoint constituencies.
Blair is a Maggie devotee, with a thick coat of spin and a veneer of gloss, sprinkled with sugar.
At least Maggie had the balls to be overtly demonic.
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Urm Swoop
The reason we have lots of Eastern Europeans coming to this country might have something to do with the Iron curtain opening! It was pretty hard for them to get here before!!!:rolleyes:
Might also have something to do with them joining the European community and being allowed to travel to and work in any member state! Just like we can go there and buy cheap property work etc!
I'm no great fan of Mr Blair at the moment but come on guys you can't blame the current govt for that.
( maybe your too young to remember the Iron curtain I don't know! )
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Lazs is fond of bleating on about how we know knothing of his great nation and thus our opinions are invalid yet he knows next to nowt about ours! Guess by his rules that makes his opinions invalid!:lol
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Originally posted by Skydancer
Might also have something to do with them joining the European community and being allowed to travel to and work in any member state!
Ex Soviet eastern european countries are not part of the EU yet and no they aren't allowed to freely travel and work in Europe. They still sneak into the country (from all over, even China) and then get housed, fed and christ knows what more at my expense. And yours. There have even been documented cases of citizens of European states doing the same thing but throwing their passports off the boat and pretending to be from Albania.
This didn't happen in Maggies day, they were processed and deported back to where they damn well came from.
Why should I have to pay for some drop out loser who can't make a life for himself in his own country to get housed and fed and provided with free beer and satellite TV?
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British Politics:
It's like I kinda understand what they are saying in this thread.....but not really;)
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I thought that British kings held the throne for life or a coup? You limeys are voting on a new king now?
eskimo
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Originally posted by Swoop
Ex Soviet eastern european countries are not part of the EU yet and no they aren't allowed to freely travel and work in Europe. They still sneak into the country (from all over, even China) and then get housed, fed and christ knows what more at my expense. And yours. There have even been documented cases of citizens of European states doing the same thing but throwing their passports off the boat and pretending to be from Albania.
This didn't happen in Maggies day, they were processed and deported back to where they damn well came from.
Why should I have to pay for some drop out loser who can't make a life for himself in his own country to get housed and fed and provided with free beer and satellite TV?
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1081438631_swoop.gif)
Welcome to Illegal Immigrant Hell. We have ours, it appears you have yours as well :(
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Originally posted by eskimo2
I thought that British kings held the throne for life or a coup? You limeys are voting on a new king now?
LOL - we haven't had a King since before my time.
Oh, and about Lazs - Lazs is... Lazs! :aok
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Originally posted by Swoop
done. And the power of peaceful demonstration doesnt exist in this country anymore
Thats cause ya's no longer have guns. So why should the goverment take you seriously?
Now if ya's had guns. They'd have to pay attention :D
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Originally posted by Dowding
Blair and Hitler did have dubious notions of what truth is.
politicians in general have a dubious notion of what the truth is.
Some just disguise their lies better then others
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Originally posted by Swoop
Ex Soviet eastern european countries are not part of the EU yet and no they aren't allowed to freely travel and work in Europe. They still sneak into the country (from all over, even China) and then get housed, fed and christ knows what more at my expense.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1081438631_swoop.gif)
Man check reality, you are totaly off.
Im not sure what countries do you consider 'Ex Soviet" but if im not wrong, there are at lease 5 in EU right now.
They dont snake in ?
:rofl
you must be kidding. Just 2 facts.
1. All of my friends who wanted to work/study in UK for 1 year got there.
2. Few months ago i met some british "weekend" tourist in the pub over here.... in Ex Soviet east europian country... Do you know what made me laugh ? That british guy and i are makeing more less same money, but he pay 4x more for his living. Yet he still feel like most ritch man in our lill country :D
But keep dreaming that you live in wonderland and everybody else wanna live there. And if you realy dont know, why so many young people from Europe wanna travell to UK, i give you one hint.... "British English".
We speak about UK.... not about Swiss.
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Originally posted by Replicant
Blair is probably hated as much as Bush. So if that makes Bush = Hitler too then???
Blair is hated because he took Britain into a unjust and unpopular war. And is seen as Bush's Poodle.
...-Gixer
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Originally posted by Swoop
Oh and I just thought of a difference between now and Thatcherism: Under Thatcherism we didn't have thousands of scroungers from eastern bloody Europe learning one word of English (asylum!) and hopping on the next boat leaving Calais.
As of 2004, the top ten countries of origin for UK asylum seekers were Iran, Somalia, China, Zimbabwe, Pakistan, Iraq, India, Democratic Republic of Congo, Afghanistan and Turkey.
Source (http://www.migrationwatchuk.org)
I wouldn't argue that every person originating from the above nations is a bona fide refugee, but it is true that all these places have minorities at risk of persecution. Note the complete absence of eastern european nations from the top ten. Many citizens of eastern europe can now work and reside here quite legitimately due to expanded EU membership.
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Originally posted by Momus--
Many citizens of eastern europe can now work and reside here quite legitimately due to expanded EU membership.
And the others just make use of a nice long tunnel they were kind enough to build for them.
...-Gixer
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The French wanted the tunnel. We wanted a bridge so we could see the buggers coming.
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Originally posted by Momus--
As of 2004, the top ten countries of origin for UK asylum seekers were Iran, Somalia, China, Zimbabwe, Pakistan, Iraq, India, Democratic Republic of Congo, Afghanistan and Turkey.
Fine.
Well no matter where they bloody come from, we don't want em.
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Circumventing the language filter
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Originally posted by Swoop
Fine.
Well no matter where they bloody come from, we don't want em.
You know, I'm sure that the Picts said the same thing about the Scots and the Celts, and the Britons said the same thing about the Romans, the Angles, Saxons, Jutes and the Normans. Looks like you're in good company. ;)
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Yep isn't that just about right!
:lol
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Sky,
did you actually read the link Momus posted or are you just an idiot?
People who want to come here to work are fine by me. People who want to come here for the freebies this LABOUR goverment hands out to all and sundry are not.
I have no problem at all with Mr Patel from India who wants to run the corner shop that stays open til midnight and I couldn't survive without. Or Mr Sharmi who runs that really great curry house down the road which does the really nice keema naan. Or even Mr Hestorcocricas who dishes out kebabs to the piss heads every saturday night. You wanna come here to work, that's fine by me cos it means you're paying your own way and not living out of the pockets of the British tax payer.
The issue I have is with these damn freeloaders who are only here for one reason and that's the free beer/food/satellite TV and as many old grannies as they can rob.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1081438631_swoop.gif)
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Originally posted by Momus--
You know, I'm sure that the Picts said the same thing about the Scots and the Celts, and the Britons said the same thing about the Romans, the Angles, Saxons, Jutes and the Normans. Looks like you're in good company. ;)
Ya know what......you're absolutely right. We're being invaded again, we havn't been invaded successfully in almost a thousand years!
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Originally posted by Swoop
The French wanted the tunnel. We wanted a bridge so we could see the buggers coming.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1081438631_swoop.gif)
:rofl :rofl :aok
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Fair enough Swoop, don't necessarily disagree with you, it is just that my personal experience of immigrants has been that they are hardworking folk just trying to get ahead. No doubt there are a fair few of them on the scrounge, but this is something that could be said for a decent proportion of the native population, yet I don't see the Tories beating up on doley scumbag 3-kids by-the-age-of-seventeen council estate slags and their degenerate menfolk that are increasingly infesting our nation. If they did, they might just get my vote.
What I do know is that when work takes me London, the hotels are now staffed by fuggin' lovely Latvian and Estonian women. Compensation enough I'd say. :p
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Originally posted by Swoop
The issue I have is with these damn freeloaders who are only here for one reason and that's the free beer/food/satellite TV and as many old grannies as they can rob.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1081438631_swoop.gif)
Free beer/food/satellite TV??
Packing the baggage.
England I'm coming !!!!
Wohooooo!!!!
:D
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Originally posted by Swoop
Fine.
Well no matter where they bloody come from, we don't want em.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1081438631_swoop.gif)
So you're "we" now?
Should a proffesional ex-pat really moan about foreigners?
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I find pretty ironic to see a brit protesting about imigration when in the same time it's next to impossible to buy a traditionnall house at a decent price in Dordogne/Bretagne/Normandie/Limousin/Languedoc/Pays Basque/Charente
Just because the brit have invaded ...12 million visit per year and more than 500 000 house owned :D
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Originally posted by Momus--
yet I don't see the Tories beating up on doley scumbag 3-kids by-the-age-of-seventeen council estate slags and their degenerate menfolk that are increasingly infesting our nation. If they did, they might just get my vote.
Firmly agree with you there as well.
Originally posted by Momus--
it is just that my personal experience of immigrants has been that they are hardworking folk just trying to get ahead.
I was reading some newspaper a year or so ago.......there was a report that a group of aslyum seekers from....um, ok dunno where they were from, let's just generalise and say some poxy eastern european country.......were stealing sets of those temporary traffic lights from road works, setting them up on a back road somewhere and leaving the things on red until a nice big queue of traffic had built up and then decending on the cars in a massive group (women and children as well) smashing windows and grabbing what they could.
These are not immigrants, these are scum that have run away from their own countries cos the penalty for such behavior is a hell of a lot worse than it is here.
Right now Britain is seen as a soft touch. Come to Britain and we'll give you all kindsa free stuff and a slap on the wrist when you decide all that we've given you isn't enough.
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Originally posted by Seeker
So you're "we" now?
Should a proffesional ex-pat really moan about foreigners?
I'm an ex-ex-pat. I came back.
And I wasn't in Holland to freeload.
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Circumventing the language filter[/B]
1) The people Swoop's railing against are caucasion.
2) The highest immigrant group under Maggi were not.
3) Eastern Europeans are not coming into Britain because of the fall of the Iron Curtain; but because of the expansion of Europe. Related; I grant you; but not the same.
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Originally posted by straffo
I find pretty ironic to see a brit protesting about imigration when in the same time it's next to impossible to buy a traditionnall house at a decent price in Dordogne/Bretagne/Normandie/Limousin/Languedoc/Pays Basque/Charente
You know why though don't you? :)
Cos we can't find somewhere to live in Britain that isn't next door to some scumbag foreigner.
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Originally posted by Seeker
1) The people Swoop's railing against are caucasion.
See now, I would disagree with that statement.
I'm not racist in any way (except towards the Dutch but then they're aliens anyway so it's better described as speciesist) and don't see much of a difference between a Somalian freeloader and a Turkish freeloader.
A scumbag freeloading robbing bastard is a scumbag freeloading robbing bastard no matter what colour his skin.
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Yes I read the link to the site of some thinly veiled rightwing organisation calling itself migration watch! :rolleyes:
You still haven't responded to the fact that Its not the Labour Govt that has caused immigration from the former communist bloc countries to rise, but the fall of the Iron curtain and the increasing openess of travel within Europe. European expansion, the strong economy of this country being more attractive to immigrants as opposed to the mess that Maggie created. How about responding to these rather than calling me an idiot!?
Just a point!
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Originally posted by straffo
I find pretty ironic to see a brit protesting about imigration when in the same time it's next to impossible to buy a traditionnall house at a decent price in Dordogne/Bretagne/Normandie/Limousin/Languedoc/Pays Basque/Charente
Just because the brit have invaded ...12 million visit per year and more than 500 000 house owned :D
Payback for the Norman invasion. Took us nearly a millenium but revenge will be ours. :lol
Actually, look at it as a quid pro quo; we get to subsidise your inefficient farmers and get to buy your land and shag your women as compensation. Vive la EU!!
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I'm off to vote
I expect you'll be voting BNP Swoop!
:rolleyes:
Cya mind out for those pesky foreigners!
:lol
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rofl never thought of it this way :lol
But is being surrounded by stinky cheese eater* really better ?
hmmm ... that's a good question no :D
* plus they are foreigner being not brit :p
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Originally posted by Skydancer
Yes I read the link to the site of some thinly veiled rightwing organisation calling itself migration watch! :rolleyes:
You still haven't responded to the fact that Its not the Labour Govt that has caused immigration from the former communist bloc countries to rise, but the fall of the Iron curtain and the increasing openess of travel within Europe. European expansion, the strong economy of this country being more attractive to immigrants as opposed to the mess that Maggie created. How about responding to these rather than calling me an idiot!?
Just a point!
Ok.
How about agreeing here that my sweeping generalisation about eastern european countries was incorrect and accepting the figures postde by Momus stating that (quote) as of 2004, the top ten countries of origin for UK asylum seekers were Iran, Somalia, China, Zimbabwe, Pakistan, Iraq, India, Democratic Republic of Congo, Afghanistan and Turkey (unquote) instead of trying to tell me I have a poor grasp of history.
Ok?
It's not the eastern europeans. It's the above.
Which incidentally means that it's naff all to do with the Iron curtain.
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Originally posted by Momus--
Payback for the Norman invasion. Took us nearly a millenium but revenge will be ours. :lol
The Normans weren't French. The Normans were a viking tribe that invaded northern Gaul and decided Britain was nicer.
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Originally posted by straffo
rofl never thought of it this way :lol
But is being surrounded by stinky cheese eater* really better ?
hmmm ... that's a good question no :D
* plus they are foreigner being not brit :p
Lessee here......
As a nation, we have spent more time at war with the French than any other nation. Hell, we've spent more years at war with you guys than America has existed. You are and shall always be the Enemy.
Notice the capital E.
I think of the scum we've got invading right now as merely the enemy.
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Originally posted by Swoop
I'm an ex-ex-pat. I came back.
And I wasn't in Holland to freeload.
I never suggested you were freeloading; sorry if I gave that impression.
However; I faced the "you're over here to steal our jobs/wimmen/clogs critisism in Holland (as I do in Denmark) and I'm sure you have too.
The fact of my own experience is that I was never on the dole in Maggies Britain (and I was a welder back then; not exactly a protected job); I've never been on the dole in Holland and I've never been on the dole in Denmark. Common to all three countries is that I've known lots of other people who were on the dole because "there's no work". Well; I never had a hard time finding it; probably because I wanted to.
And again; my experience is that 99% immigrants move to increase thier chance of finding lucrative work; not generous dole cheques.
BTW; dammend if I know who I'd vote for if I were back in Britain. I really do feel we mirror the American situation; voting for people "because they're not Blair"; instead finding anything intrinsicly positive with the opposition.
The truth is; the downfall of the Wall has meant the end of idealogical discussion. These days we're all pretty much in agreement that Capitalism should rule markets; but that a governement should have a social concience. The debate is in the matter of degree.
It's been a long time since I heard any one say either "property is theft" nor "there ain't no black in the Union Jack".
And I have to view that as a good thing.
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Originally posted by Skydancer
I'm off to vote
I expect you'll be voting BNP Swoop!
The BNP goes too far.
it's merely the freeloading robbing scum I object to (note: I have exactly the same objections to British freeloading robbing scum as well, like I said....not racist in any way).
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too funny..lazs..u hooked them on this one
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Originally posted by Seeker
I never suggested you were freeloading; sorry if I gave that impression.
No, no, no. You didn't. I was just reinforcing my point that it's only the freeloaders that I'm paying for I object to.
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Wow, this thread has wandered since my last visit.
Skydancer, the 1980s were great. :D That was the decade in which I reached my earnings potential, without having the majority of it taken as tax. I'd had tough times under the 1970s Labour govt. A lot of people did, what with 25% inflation, high taxes, high interest rates.
Of course, I could have moaned and done nothing, but I chose to get off my arse and develop skills which I could later deploy for high fees. I think this approach was more productive than standing around a brazier outside my place of employment on a cold winter's morning, yelling "out, brothers, out!" at the top of my lungs, and waving signs begging passing motorists to honk their horns in support. That, by the way, is what a great many Labourites were doing in the 1970s when they found themselves unable to deal with the fact that the days of their 19th century working practices in their heavily over subsidised, loss making, nationalised industry had come to an end.
And don't expect me to be gulled by all this crap about Gordon's prowess in managing the economy. It's easy to crow that the coffers are full when you've raised taxes 66 times, and committed the biggest legal heist on the piggy banks of middle England that Britain has ever known.
The truth is that Gordon inherited a healthy economy, with interest rates already down to about 6¼%. One of Labour's big lies is the claim that under them, interest rates have halved. Thay haven't. They are down by more like a quarter, to 4¾%. Labour's interest rate spin stems from having compared the average interest rate under 18 years of Tory rule, and comparing that average figure with the snapshot value of today. As you can see - more Labour lies and spin. But, as always, by the time people have unravelled the spin, Tony and Gordon have moved on somewhere else.
As to the NHS saving your parents' lives - good news, but let's have the other side. - In 1980, I had life saving surgery in an American hospital at Springfield,IL. (Ruptured appendix/peritonitis) I would be brown bread for sure if my operation had been cancelled, as would have been likely on the NHS. Assuming it had gone ahead, I'd probably have died from an MRSA infection. America has no NHS. All treatment is private and has to be paid for. I had Blue Cross/Blue Shield with my job, and that covered it. On the way out, I had to write a check for $100 - discharge fee. I later got that back on the insurance. Stick that in your socialist pipe and smoke it.
- A friend of mine has a girlfriend whose left leg was very seriously injured in a skiing accident in France, which AFAIK has no national health service. (Straffo can confirm) The French doctors were able to repair her leg and had to insert about a dozen plates and pins. The English medical team was impressed when she got home. They said she could have lost that leg had the care not been as good or as prompt.
I'm not against the concept of an NHS; I'm against what it's become - an overbloated government quango.
The 1980s were fine by me - no more strikes, people working harder so we didn't have to put up with chitty products like naff cars unless we chose to. And the memories of Ronald Reagan and Maggie T dancing cheek to cheek at the White House bring a tear to my eye. :D;)
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I confirm our medical system is not like the brit NHS.
In fact I think our medical system is right between the british and the US system.
I still wonder how you ended with the NHS when it's IMO very traditionnal for the English to have such a system
A system like the NHS would have been more probable in France ...
Concerning you friend and her accident don't forget there is a lot less ski accident in Britain than in the Alpes :)
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Originally posted by beet1e
I had life saving surgery in an American hospital at Springfield,IL. (Ruptured appendix/peritonitis) I would be brown bread for sure if my operation had been cancelled, as would have been likely on the NHS.
Can you give examples of patients dying as a direct result of having an appendicitis/peritonitis operation cancelled in the UK in the entire lifetime of the NHS, yet alone in the last 8 years?
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Originally posted by beet1e
Assuming it had gone ahead, I'd probably have died from an MRSA infection.
Actually, MRSA rate of infection in the USA are comparable with those of the UK.
Source (http://www.dh.gov.uk/PublicationsAndStatistics/Bulletins/ChiefNursingOfficerBulletin/BulletinCNO/fs/en?CONTENT_ID=4103579&MULTIPAGE_ID=5032514&chk=52plBn)
Bear in mind that MRSA is not notifiable in the USA, so exact statistics are hard to come by. Experts believe it is on the increase in the US.
Source (http://depts.washington.edu/einet/?a=printArticle&print=381)
Source (http://www.registerguard.com/news/2005/02/28/b1.cr.staph.0228.html)
MSRA is a global problem due in no small part to over-use of antibiotics, not a local problem caused by Blair and Brown.
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Originally posted by Momus--
MSRA is a global problem due in no small part to over-use of antibiotics, not a local problem caused by Blair and Brown.
That may be, but then Blair/Brown put a spin on it saying the current state of the NHS is the best it's ever been/envy of the world etc. And that is complete bollocks. I don't think it improved even when National Insurance was increased by about 2%.
As for that American hospital I was in, it was spotless - I could have eaten my dinner off the floor. Same thing can be said for my local BUPA hospital.
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Originally posted by Swoop
Fine.
Well no matter where they bloody come from, we don't want em.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1081438631_swoop.gif)
try kicking them out. :D
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-just off to cast my own vote, then I'm on duty at one of the other pollings stations for a few hours.
WTG Toad! You created a monster with this thread! :lol:aok
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Originally posted by beet1e
As for that American hospital I was in, it was spotless - I could have eaten my dinner off the floor. Same thing can be said for my local BUPA hospital.
Given that Private hospitals in the UK do not publish records on MRSA I don't know how you can be so sure. Since there are many factors involved in MRSA transmission and not all of them dependant on poor ward hygiene, I wouldn't assume that because the place looks cleaner you are not at risk.
Also, next time you are in a Bupa hospital and heaven forbid suffer life threatnening complications, see how fast they rush you down to the local NHS trust.
Still waiting for examples of cancelled appendicitis operations BTW.
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Originally posted by Momus--
Given that Private hospitals in the UK do not publish records on MRSA I don't know how you can be so sure. Since there are many factors involved in MRSA transmission and not all of them dependant on poor ward hygiene, I wouldn't assume that because the place looks cleaner you are not at risk.
Last time I had a minor surgery at the BUPA hospital, the GP forgot to ask me if I was in BUPA, and ended up setting up the consultation with the surgeon at Battle Hospital in Reading. The surgery actually took place at Dunedin Hospital. There was a world of difference between the two. Battle looked third world, with people sitting around in the corridors waiting to be seen. At Dunedin, you could smell the cleanliness in the air. And it was a lot quieter.
Like I said, I'm keeping my BUPA subscription - damn the expense. If I believed the NHS was a good as some try to claim, I wouldn't bother.
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If for MRSA you intend the variants of bacters that are resistant to the antibiotics, then the overuse of antibiotics associated with the max cure for the aspect of the private clinics, is a good hint for a possible problems with MRSA (whatever it means).
I suggest you to try the typical South Italian public hospital.
Paying-Free, MRSA-free, and, if you dont like the food, you can chase and eat the rats living under you bed....
A real paradise.
:D
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wait a minute.... are you lilly white boys and your 92% majority talking about..... imigration? this is really funny.
I can point to london on a map but I had a hard time reading the maps when I was there and all the beggars and pickpockets kept bothering me.
you guys shure are sensitive about your leaders... I mean a foreighner comes on and tells you he doesn't like your politics and you jump all over him... don't you realize that the rest of the world thinks blair is a joke or hitler?
lazs
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Thing thing that sort of mystifies me is that Blair is hated by all and is seen as Bush's poodle so they are going to re-elect him.
At least that's how this thread is making it look.
So.... you can be hated but if you're Bush's poodle all is forgiven?
Or you're hated because you're Bush's poodle but that's all jolly good fun and we like you enough to re-elect you anyway?
Or we really do hate you and being Bush's poodle is a very bad thing but we're going to re-elect you because we hate your competition worse than we hate Bush's poodle?
It's got to be in there somewhere.
BTW, Laz.... very nice lure. Just that one hit but it was a dandy.
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toad... It would appear that Bush is beloved by all in entgland except for a few pansies on this board.
That is the only conclussion that can be drawn from the election.
lazs
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Jeez Lazs, if you're gonna use such stinky bait at least spell England correctly. ;)
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Circumventing the language filter
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Thing thing that sort of mystifies me is that Blair is hated by all and is seen as Bush's poodle so they are going to re-elect him.
At least that's how this thread is making it look.
If Britain had a presidential system Blair wouldn't stand a chance. As it is, it's more the party than the prime minister people are voting for.
Labour stand to win despite Blair, not because people want Blair as prime minister.
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For all the noise Lazs makes about the irrelevance non american opinions, he certainly expends enough energy on trolling them. Keep trying Lazs; like the old analogy about the monkey and the typewiter, if you keep going long enough you'll make sense eventually.
Toad, the fact of the matter is that there is so little difference between the major parties these days that people have to basically make stuff up (or parrot the media's half truths) in order to frame an argument. Any real ideological basis to british politics passed away with the end of Thatcher's career and the death of John Smith. All that is left is a tussle to see which bunch of petty middle manager types get to occupy the middle ground and pretend to run the country for the next five years. The sad fact is that Blair is more photogenic than Howard and for all his charm Kennedy is a ginger scotsman and this will probably make more difference than any stated policy.
As for Blair being Bush's poodle; that might be a perception shared by many, but what the mindless majority in this increasingly benighted nation don't seem to grasp is this: Howard, or Kennedy, or any other alternative occupant of no. 10 Downing Street would have behaved in exactly the same way as Blair over Iraq and that to do so was in the strategic interests of this country. Blair, or Major before him, would have gone into Iraq with guns blazing 5 or ten years ago if Clinton could have come up with a good enough pretext.
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What I find so funny is the parallel. Perhaps it's not apparent to the non-US?
This:
Originally posted by lazs2
blair = hitler.
don't be offended.... we don't hate brits... just everything about your lifestyle and politics.
lazs
Draws this response:
Originally posted by Gixer
So Lazs how many years of British lifestyle have you experienced to make you hate the British lifestyle? I'm guessing none and that you probably can't even point to London on a map.
...-Gixer
Remembering the commentary from our election, the reversal here is just too funny. IMO, of course.
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Anybody catch the Daily Show last night?
The 'town meeting' comparisons were hysterical funny.. and Colberts comment on "social" issues (gay marrige) "It's England, John.. they all sound gay."
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Jeez, swimming in this forum is really dangerous.
It's full of stinking and rotten baits.
:aok
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Nothin ticks off an angler more than self-aware conservative fish that hang around the bait discussing the relative merits of bait and lures without hitting on either.
;)
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Originally posted by Nashwan
As it is, it's more the party than the prime minister people are voting for.
So Labour could run the statue of Nelson in Trafalgar and win?
And Euros think our electoral system is porked? ;)
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Do you think Toad understands that Electoral systems are different all over Europe? This is the UK. This Euro label thing is as daft as the people who keep using it!
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Originally posted by Momus--
Toad, the fact of the matter is that there is so little difference between the major parties these days that people have to basically make stuff up (or parrot the media's half truths) in order to frame an argument.
So what you're saying is that the English political system is essentially identical to the US system at the basic roots?
Those of you who castigated the US for electing Bush are now going elect... wait for it.... Bush's poodle.
And you make fun of us?
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Originally posted by Toad
So what you're saying is that the English political system is essentially identical to the US system at the basic roots?
Yes, in common with most modern democracies.
Those of you who castigated the US for electing Bush are now going elect... wait for it.... Bush's poodle.
I think you need help with your reading comprehension. I said the perception that Blair is Bush's poodle is an incorrect one.
Any you make fun of us?
Yes, but only because as a nation you take slurs against your country so personally, that makes it so much more fun. :p
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Well, Momus most of the folks that were slinging shirt at the US for running/electing Bush during our last election consider Blair to be "Bush's poodle".
Wouldn't you agree?
And now, Bush's poodle seems poised to win an unprecedented third straight election.
I think it's understandable that some in the US may be laughing at some in the UK then?
Momus: I think you need help with your reading comprehension. I said the perception that Blair is Bush's poodle is an incorrect one.
[/b]
My reading comprehension is just fine, thanks for asking.
I'm not the one you have to convince, chum. I've never made that charge. However, I've seen it often enough from some UK posters, the folks that will vote in this election. The one in which the poodle is poised to profit.
;)
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Originally posted by Hangtime
Anybody catch the Daily Show last night?
The 'town meeting' comparisons were hysterical funny.. and Colberts comment on "social" issues (gay marrige) "It's England, John.. they all sound gay."
yeah, that was pretty good on the status quo.
i'd speculate the reason why Blair was in Bush's hip pocket, relates all the way back to Iran and '53.
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I guess what you have to understand is that Iraq is not the election issue here that it was in the US, despite the efforts of some elements in the opposition and the press. The perception, incorrect or not, that Blair just follows Bush's orders, would only apply in the context of a discussion on policy towards the war.
Further than that, you'll have to ask someone who actually thinks that Tony is George's lapdog to elaborate.
i'd speculate the reason why Blair was in Bush's hip pocket, relates all the way back to Iran and '53.
Bingo.
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Originally posted by Momus--
Further than that, you'll have to ask someone who actually thinks that Tony is George's lapdog to elaborate.
Doesn't seem to be a serious shortage of those on this BBS. I'm sure one will chime in soon enough.
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Toad, even I laugh when I think of people re-electing Blair. However, I also laughed when the US re-elected that clown Bush. What suckers for electing a muppet!
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View it as you may, you must agree that this has become a case of people who live in glass houses throwing stones.
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All I know is that not one single political party represents anything I believe in. For this reason I think this years General Election will be one of the lowest turnouts in history.
For some people they are scared of change. Some people have bad memories of the Conservatives and that means they will never vote for them however how much they hate Blair. The Liberal party are simply living on cloud cuckoo land so those that vote for them are people that don't really understand politics. Desperate times indeed!
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Originally posted by Skydancer
Do you think Toad understands that Electoral systems are different all over Europe? This is the UK. This Euro label thing is as daft as the people who keep using it!
oh wait now I'm confused, first france gets a king and now EU stands for english union? all this time I thought that EU stood for european (dis)union. where have I gone wrong here?
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Originally posted by Toad
Remembering the commentary from our election, the reversal here is just too funny. IMO, of course.
Not quite as most Britains could point to Washington on a world map, big difference.
...-Gixer
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Yep, they don't even sell world maps in the US.
You found us all out....
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Originally posted by storch
oh wait now I'm confused, first france gets a king and now EU stands for english union? all this time I thought that EU stood for european (dis)union. where have I gone wrong here?
We still have a king ... dead and six feet under :D
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This is getting a little surreal. Dead Kings, Poodles and lap dogs! Wierd!
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Well - the exit poll predicts a Labour majority of 66. But the tories are reportedly cutting deep into their list of Labour targets.
The best thing about UK elections? - Peter Snow and the "swingometer"! I love that guy. :D He used his swingometer in his coverage of the US election too.
For more coverage, check http://www.bbc.co.uk/election2005
I'm going to be sipping wine/beer for the next few hours...
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Originally posted by Gixer
Not quite as most Britains could point to Washington on a world map, big difference.
...-Gixer
Oh yeah? Well, I can find Washington on a map just fine fella! It's right above Oregon!! :mad:
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Originally posted by Toad
View it as you may, you must agree that this has become a case of people who live in glass houses throwing stones.
The same could also be said of the re-election of John Howard down here. Having said that there is always the impression that in the US people really really believe in George Bush, whereas in the UK and Aus it's more a case of there being no viable opposition.
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Originally posted by Pei
Having said that there is always the impression that in the US people really really believe in George Bush, whereas in the UK and Aus it's more a case of there being no viable opposition.
There may be that impression but anyone reading this BBS should, if they have the least bit of reading comprehension, remember that a very large number (dare I say majority) of US posters during our last election said that very same thing. Something like "No viable opposition" was a common sentiment.
Still, I greatly enjoy watching those who slammed the US during our election try to explain the re-election (by theorhetically far more sophisticated and knowledgeable voters) of Bush's Poodles-round-the-world.
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Originally posted by Toad
There may be that impression but anyone reading this BBS should, if they have the least bit of reading comprehension, remember that a very large number (dare I say majority) of US posters during our last election said that very same thing. Something like "No viable opposition" was a common sentiment.
Still, I greatly enjoy watching those who slammed the US during our election try to explain the re-election (by theorhetically far more sophisticated and knowledgeable voters) of Bush's Poodles-round-the-world.
Note the word "impression", then apply reading comprehension (this seems to be the latest fad on this BBS :)). The impression comes more from the contrast between non-US folk and US folk on this BBS: there are a number of people on this board who believe Bush can do no wrong and vociferously attack anyone who suggests otherwise: there are virtually no non-US people who support their own leaders in such a manner, and certainly no-one who supports Blair or Howard that way.
As to more sophisticated anyone who has experiencec the British or Australian public in one thier periodic fits of moral outrage over the latest media-hyped problem (alco-pops, yobs, laddettess, dead-beat dads etc.) can put pay to that.
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For the record, I'm an American..
..and I think Bush is a pin-headed dolt, wearing the mantle and title of the biggest pin-headed dolt in a big city filled with also-ran pinheads that governs the most powerful nation of politically inept, morally bankrupt dolts on this sorry assed planet.
Now here's a clue for the folks from underdeveloped third world locations like Western & Eastern Europe, Trans-Siberia , Asia, the Middle East and those lil commonwealth communes in the Western Pacific that think Bush The Pin-Head is our[/i] problem... There's every indication that for another few years he's gonna continue to be a world class pin-headed dolt; and may I remind all the worlds jealous non-pinhead citizens that since he IS a pin-headed dolt you might do well not pissing him (or the rest of us dolts) off, because pin-headed dolts when aggravated or distracted often play with shiny buttons and other objects that light up the big maps of distant lands in bad ways when they are pressed.
...which I suspect is why the resta us pinheads elected him.
So, kindly refrain from kicking the pin-heads at least untill the current dolt is outta reach of the buttons, or the wanna-be-kewl nations of the world just might get a chance to join the Japanese in discovering just how groovy mushrooms that glow in the dark really are.
Sleep Tight Citizens of the World! America is watching![/i] (& waiting for a clear shot)
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Originally posted by Pei
there are virtually no non-US people who support their own leaders in such a manner, and certainly no-one who supports Blair or Howard that way.
[/b]
I think you should add "posting on this board" to the end of that sentence.
Originally posted by Pei
As to more sophisticated
Well, from reading the posts of our Bush-slagging non-US posters one certainly gets the impression that they feel far more sophisticated than us unwashed colonials.
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Originally posted by Hangtime
For the record, I'm an American..
..and I think Bush is a pin-headed dolt, wearing the mantle and title of the biggest pin-headed dolt in a big city filled with also-ran pinheads that governs the most powerful nation of politically inept, morally bankrupt dolts on this sorry assed planet.
Now here's a clue for the folks from underdeveloped third world locations like Western & Eastern Europe, Trans-Siberia , Asia, the Middle East and those lil commonwealth communes in the Western Pacific that think Bush The Pin-Head is our[/i] problem... There's every indication that for another few years he's gonna continue to be a world class pin-headed dolt; and may I remind all the worlds jealous non-pinhead citizens that since he IS a pin-headed dolt you might do well not pissing him (or the rest of us dolts) off, because pin-headed dolts when aggravated or distracted often play with shiny buttons and other objects that light up the big maps of distant lands in bad ways when they are pressed.
...which I suspect is why the resta us pinheads elected him.
So, kindly refrain from kicking the pin-heads at least untill the current dolt is outta reach of the buttons, or the wanna-be-kewl nations of the world just might get a chance to join the Japanese in discovering just how groovy mushrooms that glow in the dark really are.
Sleep Tight Citizens of the World! America is watching![/i] (& waiting for a clear shot)
Get some Hangtime !
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Originally posted by Toad
I think you should add "posting on this board" to the end of that sentence.
Well, from reading the posts of our Bush-slagging non-US posters one certainly gets the impression that they feel far more sophisticated than us unwashed colonials. [/B]
We prefer to think of you as "authentic smelling" colonials. :D
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Originally posted by Pei
We prefer to think of you as "authentic smelling" colonials. :D
:) THIS from the resident of a penal colony.
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Originally posted by Toad
:) THIS from the resident of a penal colony.
This from a money grubbing rabble rousing anti britain, french backed, good fer nuttin REBEL.
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Originally posted by vorticon
This from a money grubbing rabble rousing anti britain, french backed, good fer nuttin REBEL.
And proud of it, you might add. ;)
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French backed?
You mean like, "hunchbacked"?
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-more like a reach-around
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Originally posted by Toad
Thing thing that sort of mystifies me is that Blair is hated by all and is seen as Bush's poodle so they are going to re-elect him.
At least that's how this thread is making it look.
So.... you can be hated but if you're Bush's poodle all is forgiven?
Or you're hated because you're Bush's poodle but that's all jolly good fun and we like you enough to re-elect you anyway?
Or we really do hate you and being Bush's poodle is a very bad thing but we're going to re-elect you because we hate your competition worse than we hate Bush's poodle?
It's got to be in there somewhere.
BTW, Laz.... very nice lure. Just that one hit but it was a dandy.
It's all to do with the dreadful excuse for a democracy that a first-past-the-post system is. The poodle's party is slated to get about 36% of the vote (Labour have already won, with 613 seats declared as I post). So the vast majority — 74% — voted against Labour: not exactly a resounding mandate.
And the fact that George Galloway got elected, beating a Labour candidate is an interesting comment on the Iraq issue.
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Tony wins... so stfu!
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Originally posted by -dead-
And the fact that George Galloway got elected, beating a Labour candidate is an interesting comment on the Iraq issue.
That was one of the more amusing results of the night.
He was very clever if not cynical in the consituency he chose to contest, Bow and Bethnal Green in East London. Large muslim population, the sitting member being Oona King, one of the few black women in parliament and who was known as having supported the Iraq war and for being a Blair loyalist. He will have attracted a huge anti-war vote and no doubt some votes from the more fundamentalist Muslims in the area who had a problem with a woman representing them.
All said though, you have to give him credit for bouncing back after the outrageous lies told about him in the pro-US sections of the UK press over the last 3 years.
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hangtime,
you are such a tosser,
wipass
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Originally posted by Hangtime
For the record, I'm an American..
..and I think Bush is a pin-headed dolt, wearing the mantle and title of the biggest pin-headed dolt in a big city filled with also-ran pinheads that governs the most powerful nation of politically inept, morally bankrupt dolts on this sorry assed planet.
Now here's a clue for the folks from underdeveloped third world locations like Western & Eastern Europe, Trans-Siberia , Asia, the Middle East and those lil commonwealth communes in the Western Pacific that think Bush The Pin-Head is our[/i] problem... There's every indication that for another few years he's gonna continue to be a world class pin-headed dolt; and may I remind all the worlds jealous non-pinhead citizens that since he IS a pin-headed dolt you might do well not pissing him (or the rest of us dolts) off, because pin-headed dolts when aggravated or distracted often play with shiny buttons and other objects that light up the big maps of distant lands in bad ways when they are pressed.
...which I suspect is why the resta us pinheads elected him.
So, kindly refrain from kicking the pin-heads at least untill the current dolt is outta reach of the buttons, or the wanna-be-kewl nations of the world just might get a chance to join the Japanese in discovering just how groovy mushrooms that glow in the dark really are.
Sleep Tight Citizens of the World! America is watching![/i] (& waiting for a clear shot)
Wohaaaaa !!!!!
Hangtime is back !!!
:)
Now (honest), if someone can explain me what is a "dolt".
Thank You in advance.
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Hmm - not sure what the purpose of this thread was. Was it an honest question? It seems to have degenerated into a critique of the British voting system. I can't ever remember passing comment on the US system, or any of the candidates. :confused:
I was completely correct in my prediction. As readers of this board will have noticed, I'm always right in threads started by Toad. It's really very simple. I knew in June 2001 that Labour would win last night. There's no way a majority of 160+ would be overturned, although I saw some incredible swings away from Lab to LibDem - more than 9% in some cases. And WTG George Galloway - in Bethnal Green - LOL! Yeah, it's muslim round there, and Bengali - some fantastic curry restaurants around Spittalfields and Brick Lane.
I don't believe the overall result has that much to do with there not being a credible opposition. It has everything to do with the Lab. majority in 2001. I did some canvassing for the tories (I'm not ashamed to admit) and my Con. candidate almost doubled her majority last night (5.8% swing to Con.). The other area I was involved in was Newbury, where the LD guy was defeated by a tory who won by about 3400. The tories will come back!
As for the size of the majority, I was right about that too. Labour needed 324 seats to win. So far they have 353 but with about 20 seats still to declare. At the time of writing Con. is on 196, LD on 60. There are what - 657 seats in the House of Commons. With Labour holding 353 of them, that gives them an overall majority (over all the other parties put together) of 49. I predicted between 5 and 50. The BBC prediction was 66. But the final result is not yet known.
What can I say? I wanted to be wrong, but I just can't do it. :D:p
My one word answer to the result - a sort of muted "woohoo". Let's hope it wipes that freaking smirk of Tony Blair's face. One thing's for sure: He's going to have to start listening to his lowly electorate from now on. No more railroading through of legislation like the ban on foxhunting, and using the Parliament Act to do it. No more using his Scottish members to railroad through an unpopular vote which does not affect Scotland - student top up fees.
OK, here's my next prediction: This govt. won't run full term. The worm is turning. The economy might be strong, but you can only rob Middle England once. We have an ever growing public sector with an ever shrinking private sector to pay for it. There are going to be BIG tax increases (sorry Wipass), possibly within the next few weeks. The increasing tax burden will have to be met by a shrinking private sector. It's a snowball rolling downhill, getting bigger and faster as it goes. Labour is trapped in the tax spiral.
Don't believe this Gordon Brown guff about successful management of the economy. He inherited a strong economy in 1997. Interest rates have not come down by half, but only by a quarter.
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beet1e,
Nearly 50 % of my business turnover is handed over to the government in taxes, that is 50 % of turnover not 50 % of profits.
Gordon McBrown presides over an economy that grows on the back of rising house prices, consumer spending and borrowing.
The bubble will burst and quite soon too,
Roll on the next election when Labour will be thrown out ;
wipass
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How much bigger can the taxes get ?
Looks like im staying out here for quite soem time ....oh well :)
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Originally posted by -dead-
And the fact that George Galloway got elected, beating a Labour candidate is an interesting comment on the Iraq issue.
Originally posted by Momus--
He was very clever if not cynical in the consituency he chose to contest, Bow and Bethnal Green in East London. Large muslim population,... He will have attracted a huge anti-war vote and no doubt some votes from the more fundamentalist Muslims in the area who had a problem with a woman representing them.
So the interesting comment on the Iraq issue is that Galloway was able to swing Muslim voters away from Tony Blair because of the Iraq war and because male fundamentalist Muslims don't care to have a woman represent them.
My what an interesting comment. Who'd have thought Muslims wouldn't support Blair's party? Will wonders never cease?
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Actually Toad, I think you'll find plenty of British muslims voted Labour despite the war.
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Originally posted by -dead-
It's all to do with the dreadful excuse for a democracy that a first-past-the-post system is.
[/b]
As opposed to the shining democratic example set by China, I'm sure.
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Originally posted by Naso
I suggest you to try the typical South Italian public hospital.
Paying-Free, MRSA-free, and, if you dont like the food, you can chase and eat the rats living under you bed....
A real paradise.
:D
man I hope you are kidding
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Originally posted by wipass
The bubble will burst and quite soon too,
Roll on the next election when Labour will be thrown out
Yes, that's entirely possible now. Who knows, we might find ourselves living in a democracy once more. I hear there's talk in the City that Gordon's going to have his hands tied with regard to tax increases.
I agree about the bubble bursting, especially as more people find that inheritance tax will be payable on their legacies - even owners of former council houses will be caught.
OK, so Howard is standing down - who will replace him? Letwin? Davis? They need a younger guy than Howard - someone in his 40s.
Useful election analysis tool: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/vote_2005/constituencies/default.stm
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Originally posted by Swoop
See now, I would disagree with that statement.
I'm not racist in any way (except towards the Dutch but then they're aliens anyway so it's better described as speciesist) and don't see much of a difference between a Somalian freeloader and a Turkish freeloader.
A scumbag freeloading robbing bastard is a scumbag freeloading robbing bastard no matter what colour his skin.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1081438631_swoop.gif)
More scumbag freeloading ENGLISH bastards in the Uk than any other type in my experience.
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gixer... of course you could point to washington on a map... it is an important place.
There would be no point in teaching anyone where NZ is tho. If we ever want to go on vacation there and scuba dive or such... the travel agent will get us there.
lazs
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Gixer I can find NZ on a map.
I was taught to just imagine Austraila having a poo. The **** is NZ!
See how easy that is to remember?
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Circumventing the language filter
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Originally posted by Pei
...impression that in the US people really really believe in George Bush, whereas in the UK and Aus it's more a case of there being no viable opposition.
Same thing here my friend. We had no viable option either. Everyone seems to think, not only abroad but here, that it was a bunch of religious fanatics that voted Bush back in. Um, no, it was regular people who didn’t like the liberal propaganda being shoved down their throat that made a decision between what was know and the definite unknown.
I watched the documentary about Air America the other day… they instantly jumped to the “how stupid these religious nuts are”. I’m neither religious or a nut and Kerry had my vote until he actually started speaking.
Which I believe was the thinking behind most people in the US. Given the lack of any viable alternative; best to stay with what you know.
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Oh, and congrats to Mr. Blair!
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Excellent book (http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0671675621/ref=sib_dp_pt/104-6672218-3534348#reader-page)
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Originally posted by Toad
As opposed to the shining democratic example set by China, I'm sure. [/B]
Well I'm not really all that sure I see the fundamental difference between having a government most people didn't vote for and having a government most people didn't vote for. ;)
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Originally posted by Krusher
man I hope you are kidding
Not completely.
:(
It's a long story, but seem that things are going gradually better, gradually as in nano-steps.
But, mind you, there are bubbles of excellence here and there, in a sea of escrements.
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Originally posted by Habu
BTW this language filter is draconian. I said TU*D not SH*T.
You can spell that word with a ü - (Alt + 0252 on the numeric keypad) I got away with it a couple of times, before I realised how much it pisses skuzzy off when the language filter is bypassed.
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Originally posted by lazs2
There would be no point in teaching anyone where NZ is tho. If we ever want to go on vacation there and scuba dive or such... the travel agent will get us there.
Yes, but it's in a very remote place. Not many planes have the range to get there. But the A380 will be OK of course. :D
_________________________
"New Labour is like a dead fish - rotting from the head down" - Rory Bremner.
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Originally posted by beet1e
Yes, but it's in a very remote place. Not many planes have the range to get there. But the A380 will be OK of course. :D
But you could never land it on such a small place.
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Nor, I suspect, would you see the difference between having a government selected at all levels from amongst various and disparate political parties by voters freely exercising universal franchise and having a government selected from a single choice offered by a dictatorial and autocratic state by voters with no other recourse that only vote for the lowest political positions.
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eh?
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Originally posted by Monk
But you could never land it on such a small place.
ROFL! Nice troll, but wrong.
Directors' Report from Auckland International Airport Limited (http://www.auckland-airport.co.nz/SixMonth2004/directors.php) To ensure Auckland is A380-capable, the airport will widen its main runway by 7.5 metres on either side.
Auckland is a little village in NZ, by the way. ;)
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Originally posted by beet1e
Auckland is a little village in NZ, by the way. ;)
NZ?.....NB is Nebraska, ND is North Dakota. You don't mean NY do you? Maybe Jersey, NJ.
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Originally posted by Momus--
He was very clever if not cynical in the consituency he chose to contest, Bow and Bethnal Green in East London. Large muslim population, the sitting member being Oona King, one of the few black women in parliament and who was known as having supported the Iraq war and for being a Blair loyalist. He will have attracted a huge anti-war vote and no doubt some votes from the more fundamentalist Muslims in the area who had a problem with a woman representing them.
I don't think it was the fact Oona is a woman that led to this result. In 2001, she won the seat with a majority of 10,000+. That was/should have been a safe Labour seat. I'm absolutely amazed by the Bethnal Green result this time. It just has to be a backlash against the Iraq war.
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Originally posted by Monk
NZ?.....NB is Nebraska, ND is North Dakota. You don't mean NY do you? Maybe Jersey, NJ.
LOL - it probably isn't on any maps sold in the US. Oh wait, you're in Germany...
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Originally posted by beet1e
You can spell that word with a ü - (Alt + 0252 on the numeric keypad) I got away with it a couple of times, before I realised how much it pisses skuzzy off when the language filter is bypassed.
Beetle, quicker way is to use the ASCII code Alt 129 ü
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Originally posted by bob149
How much bigger can the taxes get ?
Looks like im staying out here for quite soem time ....oh well :)
Well they might want to try their own version of the Boston Tea Party.
Seemed to work well for us.
For a while anyway:)
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How did the BNP and NF fair?
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NF no longer exists. Renamed BNP, the same way Windscale was renamed Sellafield after a certain mishap with some fire and some control rods and a plutonium production reactor.
They made some gains, but I don't think they won any seats. They usually get a thousand votes in a constituency of around 30,000.
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crooks and liars mostly, the honest ones that can't be bought are sold.
best to keep them congregated in one area.
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Originally posted by Toad
Nor, I suspect, would you see the difference between having a government selected at all levels from amongst various and disparate political parties by voters freely exercising universal franchise and having a government selected from a single choice offered by a dictatorial and autocratic state by voters with no other recourse that only vote for the lowest political positions.
Not if the net result is the same, no.
And let's not forget that one half of the UK parliament is not elected at all.
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Originally posted by -dead-
Not if the net result is the same, no.
But of course the net result is not the same at all, although some will think themselves sophisticated and witty if they pretend it is.
Originally posted by -dead-
And let's not forget that one half of the UK parliament is not elected at all.
[/b]
At a minimum then, that's 50% better than China.
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Originally posted by Toad
Nor, I suspect, would you see the difference between having a government selected at all levels from amongst various and disparate political parties by voters freely exercising universal franchise and having a government selected from a single choice offered by a dictatorial and autocratic state by voters with no other recourse that only vote for the lowest political positions.
You got that from Michael Palin didn't you??!!
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Originally posted by wipass
beet1e,
Nearly 50 % of my business turnover is handed over to the government in taxes, that is 50 % of turnover not 50 % of profits.
Gordon McBrown presides over an economy that grows on the back of rising house prices, consumer spending and borrowing.
The bubble will burst and quite soon too,
Roll on the next election when Labour will be thrown out ;
wipass
Robin Hood did not rob from the rich and give to the poor. He Robbed from the government that was taking outrages taxes from the people and returning their own money.
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Originally posted by Toad
But of course the net result is not the same at all, although some will think themselves sophisticated and witty if they pretend it is.
At a minimum then, that's 50% better than China. [/B]
Actually, at a minimum, it's 50% worse than China - the NPC is 100% elected.
And as far as Hong Kong goes - rule from Beijing has been 100% more democratic than rule from Westminster.
But your ad hominem points on the state of China's government is entirely irrelevant to the discussion of whether the UK has a representative government or whether 35.2% of the vote represents a popular mandate for Tony Blair. Although the
I say no both cases, and if it's not representative of the people's wishes, it might as well be a communist government, no matter what method is used to get there.
And all the communist apparatus in China won't change that.
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Much as I hate the Blair government, it might have only got 36% of the vote, but it got more votes than any other party, in totally free and fair elections where anybody was able to stand.
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But of course the "multi-party cooperation and political consultation system" of the "100% elected NPC" is "under the leadership of the CPC (Communist Party of China) according to a Chinese government white paper.
Ad Hominem? Hardly. I merely pointed out an inconsistency between a view expressed by an individual and the remainder of his or her beliefs.
35% for Blair represents legitimate leadership in that political system, a system that allows for free election and is open to all parties. It is indeed representative of the people's wishes within that political system.
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It's all so predictable... you all like to think you are individuals and all but the truth is... You admire blair for being Bush's lapdog and enjoy a having a nice strong daddy figure like the U.S.
It's just the way you like things. Lot's of authority telling you what you need and what you can and can't do.
lazs
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Another tale of woe for Blair. He was confirmed as re-elected PM only yesterday, and already the questions are being asked about how long he'll last, and, with the Daily Express running a headline "it's time to go".
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/050507/325/fiaoz.html
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Originally posted by Nashwan
Much as I hate the Blair government, it might have only got 36% of the vote, but it got more votes than any other party, in totally free and fair elections where anybody was able to stand.
That would be a significant fact only if you have just two parties (although 36% of the vote would be tricky mathematically), because then if one party had more votes than the other party it would be at least a mandate of sorts.
But given that there is more than 3 parties involved, it doesn't really follow that the party with more votes than any other should get power. And it certainly doesn't follow that most people voted to re-elect that party .
Indeed in the problems with the first-past-the-post system are such that even your criteria of getting more votes than any other party (in totally free and fair elections where anybody is able to stand) doesn't necessarily ensure that the party will win.
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Originally posted by Toad
But of course the "multi-party cooperation and political consultation system" of the "100% elected NPC" is "under the leadership of the CPC (Communist Party of China) according to a Chinese government white paper.
Ad Hominem? Hardly. I merely pointed out an inconsistency between a view expressed by an individual and the remainder of his or her beliefs.
Rather than addressing the truth or otherwise of the actual assertion made — which seemed to me to be pretty much a textbook ad hominem. Not sure what you think the inconsistency in my beliefs are, exactly —_or indeed what you think my beliefs are.
35% for Blair represents legitimate leadership in that political system, a system that allows for free election and is open to all parties. It is indeed representative of the people's wishes within that political system.
Hmm so we're back to the UK government is unrepresentative of the majority of people, but that's OK because that's the UK's system and the people of the UK put up with it. Whereas China's government is unrepresentative of the majority of people, and that's bad because that's China's system and the people of China put up with it.
I see both as unrepresentative and thus undemocratic. Both systems self-perpetuate, and neither is open to change due to the vested interests of the unrepresentative governments in question. Both governments, if pressed, will argue that the system shouldn't change because their country requires strong government.
It really doesn't matter if you can vote for who ever you like if the majority of people don't get actually a representative who will represent their views as they voted: their vote is rendered meaningless, regardless of how freely and fairly they get to use it. The system you use to obtain an unrepresentative government is pretty much irrelevant to the question of whether or not the government is unrepresentative of people's wishes. Blackmail, coercion, vote-rigging, first-past-the-post or dictatorship of the proletariat — as a famous old Chinese communist once said "if doesn't matter if the cat is black or white, as long as it catches mice."
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With your 50% you are also assuming that both Houses of Parliament have equal power, which they do not: ultimately all the Lords can do is delay legislation.