Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Max on May 04, 2005, 09:29:57 AM
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Couple of folks were curious as to how to produce a decent Texas Smoked Beef Brisket so I thought this would be the best place to discuss the subject. Feel free to jump in if you have a question or a tip to offer.
The Meat - I'd suggest USDA Choice Brisket. You can find it at most of the price Clubs as a Packer Flat or Whole Brisket. The "flats" are a bit more expensive and have less waste. Whole briskets are a bit easier to work with for the novice. Look for a brisket in the 10 - 12 lb range.
The Rub - Open any BBQ cookbook and you'll find at least 4 rub recipes. The basic rub for beef or pork is 1 part each of: paprika, salt (Kosher), sugar (white, brown or Turbinado) and black pepper. Feel free to embelish that mix with anything else you wish to add, just don't over-power the basic 4.
The Prep - Remove the brisket from its Cry-O-Vac (thick plastoc) wrapping and rinse it under cold water. Pat dry with paper towels. Lay it on a tray, fat side up. Season it with salt & pepper. Now grab a basting brush and some yellow mustard. Paint a coating of mustard onto the brisket - both sides. Now take your rub and shake a generous dose over the mustard. Wrap with cellophane and refridgerate overnight, or 8 hrs.+
The Smoke - This is a matter of preference. Texans like their Mesquite, some like Hickory. I use either a Brinkman Offset Pit Smoker, or a Cookshack electric smoker. If you're using a pit smoker, you want to use natural wood charcoal (some call it Cowboy or Lump) as your heat source. The flavoring wood ( Mesquite, Hickory, etc.) is added to the lump charcoal in small amounts during the smoke process. It's a good idea to pre-soak the wood chunks in water prior to adding them to the firebox.
The QUE - Brisket likes a temp of 220 - 230 degrees. Once you've established that temp, place the brisket fat side up on the smoke rack. If possible, add a pan with an inch of water below the meat...the moisture will help keep the meat from drying out. Buy yourself a decent probe thermometer which you can read without opening the smoker. Set the probe into the center of the brisket. Add your "flavoring wood" to the fire box and pop a beer - you're in for a 10 hr wait :)
Most meat will plateau in a smoker...meaning the temp will climb to about 165 and rest there for awhile before climbing back up again. Don't sweat it...it's normal. Don't open the door and scream at the meat...it's done when it's done.
It's Done - WHEN, the internal temp of the meat reads 185 - 190. At that stage the ouside fat will feel like Jello. Carefully remove the meat to a board/tray. Gently wrap it with cellophane and wrap that in a bath towel. Put it in a chest cooler and let it sit for 30 minutes to an hour. Pop another beer :) The reason for holding the brisket is to let the juices settle in the meat. Cut it right out of the smoker and you'll probably find it dry. When cutting the meat, go AGAINST the grain and keep the slices thin.
That's about it. The same method also works well for Pork Butt (pulled pork).
Any questions, holler.
DmdMax
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Pretty good write up; that'd work. My tiny point of differing is that I cook my briskets to a higher internal temperature. My experience has been if you get them up over 200 they are MUCH more tender. To do this though, you do have to have some form of moisture in the cooker, like the pan of water mentioned.
Probably the best "how to cook" site I've found on the 'net to get folks started in Q is this one:
The Virtual Weber Bullet Cooking Tips (http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/cook.html)
There's a lot of other info on the rest of the site too.
Good work Max.... now I have to fire up the smoker. ;)
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Point taken on the 200+ temp, Toad. I would say though that once over 200, you're almost to the point where the meat's falling apart and difficult to slice. I pull it out at 190...by the time it sits 30 minutes, it usually notches up another 4 or 6 degrees.
Here's a great "how to" brisket link-
http://www.cookshackamerica.com/brisket101.aspx
DmdMax
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now that sounds tasty!
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Definatly a higher Temp , , What I do is when I pull my Brisket out of the wrapper , i cover it with meat tenderizer , then garlic powder , add a little water to it and make a paste , while rubbing it into the meat, do both sides while your pit is getting hot , 250 to 300 range .
After placing the Brisket on the wayward side from the fire , I add some oak firewood and let her cook for 4 hours
After 4 hours I then break out the HUGE Aluminum foil and wrap that wrascal , and let it contunue to cook another 4 to 6 hours , while keeping a constant 250 to 300 temp and adding more firewood as needed.
When all is said and done , and you reach in and grab the brisket still in its foil " With gloves cause its going to be hot , for you peeps with that sign " and squeeze it a little and if it depresses a about an inch its ready :)
Now get something to place it on , take it inside , remove the foil carefully , and call me when you start to cut it and it just falls apart , and ill bring the Beer :aok
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Gonna pick up a Brisket on my way home tonight. I know what I am doing this weekend. I found my problem too. I am pulling it out and going right to cutting. I am going to try the cooler trick. My temps seem about right I normaly pull it around 190-195 range. But I am not letting it sit and chill. Going to try to get it right this weekend.
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posted by DMax:
The Prep - Remove the brisket from its Cry-O-Vac (thick plastoc) wrapping and rinse it under cold water. Pat dry with paper towels. Lay it on a tray, fat side up. Season it with salt & pepper. Now grab a basting brush and some yellow mustard. Paint a coating of mustard onto the brisket - both sides. Now take your rub and shake a generous dose over the mustard. Wrap with cellophane and refridgerate overnight, or 8 hrs.+
Ah, mustard as a base layer for the rub. I expected vinegar to be in there somewhere for good BBQ. I'll have to try the cooler tip as well. Thanks.
Regards,
Malta
p.s. The BBQ where I was born and raised is Hickory smoked. The dip is vinegar based as I expect the marinade/rub are too. Mutton is a specialty. Pork, beef, chicken, and turkey are good too. I prefer Hickory to Meqsuite or Oak. If you like BBQ and are ever in the vicinity, check out "Moonlite BBQ" in Owensboro, KY. There are about 4-5 other BBQ pits there but the Moonlite caters to tourists.
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1. Watch neighbour like DMax slave over meat and grill.
2. Call above said neighbour on phone.
3. Jump the fence.
4. Obtain possession of mention meat.
5. Repeat step 3.
6. Quickly retreat into thy humble abode.
:aok
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(http://www.nnm.ru/imagez/gallery/gallery/good_pogoda_full.jpg)
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Originally posted by AWMac
1. Watch neighbour like DMax slave over meat and grill.
2. Call above said neighbour on phone.
3. Jump the fence.
4. Obtain possession of mention meat.
5. Repeat step 3.
6. Quickly retreat into thy humble abode.
:aok
7. pray that the neighbor misses you, when he comes after you with a double barrel shotgun loaded with 00 buck shot. :p
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Boroda, if you guys use those pitchforks on the same stuff we use pitchforks on.... I hope you washed the tines really well!
;)
Looks like something that would go well with a keg of beer.
Love the shirt, BTW.
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Sorry, I read your BBQ discussions every evening before I go home, and it's the time when I am most hungry ;)
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Those arent ruskies cooking those brats, check out the american flag shirt.
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Paint it with mustard? Wrap it in aluminum foil?
You poor misguided souls.
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Originally posted by rpm
Paint it with mustard? Wrap it in aluminum foil?
You poor misguided souls.
Details please.
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Just use a brown sugar based rub and cook with moist heat. Fat side toward the heat. I recommend using mesquite or a fruit wood. But, moist heat is the key.
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comin down to have dmax cook me something :)
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Originally posted by AWMac
1. Watch neighbour like DMax slave over meat and grill.
2. Call above said neighbour on phone.
3. Jump the fence.
4. Obtain possession of mention meat.
5. Repeat step 3.
6. Quickly retreat into thy humble abode.
:aok
My dog has had the same idea for years, only he hasn't learned how to dial a phone.
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Dammit you sum*****es now I have to go to Roderick's tonight.
I am picky about smoked brisket. So many places @#$@ it up.
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FUNKED1
were is this brisket place you speak of? Armidioes is hit or miss.
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Originally posted by rpm
Fat side toward the heat.
First time I've seen that suggestion.
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
FUNKED1
were is this brisket place you speak of? Armidioes is hit or miss.
rodericksbbq.com
Hacienda exit, Hacienda S, R Stoneridge, L Gibraltar.
I think Armadillo Willy's has good meat usually, but their sides are ass, and you can't get the meat without 3 sides.
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Originally posted by DMax
Couple of folks were curious as to how to produce a decent Texas Smoked Beef Brisket so I thought this would be the best place to discuss the subject. Feel free to jump in if you have a question or a tip to offer.
DmdMax
I like mine rubbed hvy. take the bark and chop it up to toss into the pulled pork
If you are using pork butts then you want to cook to internal of at least 195. That is when the collegens and tissues break down so that it can be pulled. Wrap it in foil then in towels in a ice chest with no ice. They can sit that way for up to 4 hours. Then have your guests help you pull the pig.
Many tests have shown that you can cook the butts at a much higher temp with no loss of quality. Last batch I cooked 6 @ 8lb butts at 300 and they came out perfect in much less time.
I prefer a mustard vinegar sauce . Cole slaw and a good bun. Put it all together and heaven on earth.
Go here for cooking and fire suggestions http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/
Ask away if you have any questions as I am knowledgable.
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Ahhh HAH! Another foil wrapper comes outta the closet. Foil wrapping seems to be a topic of much contention on any Que forum I've seen.
DmdMax
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Originally posted by Silat
Ask away if you have any questions as I am knowledgable.
Lew what kind of smoke rig do ya use? Which would you prefer with pork? I've become a big fan of apple with pork; pecan with beef.
Max
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well what i have found out is after giving it a smoke ring , wrapping it in foil lets it finish cooking in its juices for an even better taste with tenderness :aok
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I have yet to see a good BBQ joint that says "We're famous for our aluminum foil."
Brown sugar rub, good wood and low moist heat. That's all the secret to a good tasting brisket. David Wade had a recipe for rock salt prime rib that was excellent. I've often thought it would be great for a brisket, but it wouldn't be smoked.
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Originally posted by DMax
The Prep- Season it with salt & pepper.
Any questions, holler.
DmdMax
Does it matter what kind of salt or how much? You've already got Kosher salt (along with pepper) in the rub.
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I like Kosher Salt for all BBQ and my preference is to apply a light S&P before shaking on the rub. If you're watching Sodium intake, leave it off.
DmdMax
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Rock salt Prime rib is awsome!
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Same as the original poster...small exceptions.
First, I do a little trick like some chefs prepare leg of lamb. I make slits with a knife in the brisket, and insert pieces of garlic.
Then, rub down the meat with a little olive oil...
Some Mesquite Liquid Smoke...
Rub is Paprika, a little Cayenne, as well as fresh ground black pepper and kosher salt.
Let it sit in the fridge overnight like that....then hit the smoker.
I'm a big fan of about 180 degrees. I remove it from the smoker and cut it into chunks. From there it goes into the crock pot on low for at least 8 hours in my homemade BBQ sauce.
See you in the skies!
ROX
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Originally posted by DMax
Ahhh HAH! Another foil wrapper comes outta the closet. Foil wrapping seems to be a topic of much contention on any Que forum I've seen.
DmdMax
Max they are talking about foil wrapping during cooking. Im talking after:)
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Originally posted by DMax
Lew what kind of smoke rig do ya use? Which would you prefer with pork? I've become a big fan of apple with pork; pecan with beef.
Max
Max Im sending you pics direct... No not the naked ones......
;)
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Originally posted by DMax
Lew what kind of smoke rig do ya use? Which would you prefer with pork? I've become a big fan of apple with pork; pecan with beef.
Max
Max I sent you pics of my rig.
I love apple with pork also. But I have used cherry mixed with the apple and it been awesome.
Oak has been my fave with beef recently.
Pecan for salmon of course. You know its trendy:)
I was lucky enough to get hooked up with a big supplier of wood for NW restaurants. http://www.cookingwoods.com/
Never foil to cook:) But I do foil when holding for transport etc...
But Im a believer in using whatever technique produces the product you want.
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Originally posted by rpm
I have yet to see a good BBQ joint that says "We're famous for our aluminum foil."
Brown sugar rub, good wood and low moist heat. That's all the secret to a good tasting brisket. David Wade had a recipe for rock salt prime rib that was excellent. I've often thought it would be great for a brisket, but it wouldn't be smoked.
Yes but when you order lbs of meat to go there will be some foil:)
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This may seem like a silly question, but what type/brand of probe thermometer do you recommend? I will probably buy one from the net (for various reasons) and would appreciate a clue to point me on the right path. I have a basic Brinkman electric smoker with a thermometer on the lid but the probe thermometer is better.
Regards,
Malta
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Polder Dual Sensor Meat/Oven Thermometer and Timer
Cheap, too! (http://www.hsn.com/cnt/prod/default.aspx?pfid=273137&club_id=273137&sz=10&sf=RW001&rdr=1&cm_mmc=ShoppingEngine*Froogle*rw001*273137)
(http://a1995.g.akamai.net/f/1995/10026/1d/images.hsn.com/images/product/273137_img.jpg)
Way kewl... gives you oven temp as well as internal meat temp.
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Originally posted by stantond
This may seem like a silly question, but what type/brand of probe thermometer do you recommend? I will probably buy one from the net (for various reasons) and would appreciate a clue to point me on the right path. I have a basic Brinkman electric smoker with a thermometer on the lid but the probe thermometer is better.
Regards,
Malta
Truth is they all go bad eventually. So buy the cheapest you see on sale. I bought my last 3 from bed bath and beyond with their coupon. I keep 4 on hand.
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Originally posted by Silat
Yes but when you order lbs of meat to go there will be some foil:)
Not if you are getting it from a good BBQ joint. Brown paper or Butcher paper.:aok
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I suppose it depends on what you are ordering, but some of the best BBQ comes packaged in alumiumum trays if its sliced, or syrofoam containers chopped. Brown or butchers paper is usually used on smaller orders with paper containers, but I think that is to keep costs down. Often, around holiday time, when a whole ham or turkey is smoked and sliced it is packed in an alumimum pan and covered with foil. It's practical.
Burgoo also comes in syrofoam containers unless you buy gallons, then it is in plastic widemouth jugs. I believe part of the packaging depends on where you buy it. All the smaller pits use paper and syrofoam, but I think that's because its less expensive.
That said, the meat is not cooked in, on, or with alumuinum foil.
Regards,
Malta
p.s. Thanks for the probe thermometer information.
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I Like food but.... I eat to live not live to eat... you nuts! :)
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For those who want something really cool.
http://thebbqguru.com/index.htm
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I've had corned beef and cabbage at my newfie pals houses on many occasions, I was wonderin is that the same cut as the brisket?
That's good stuff. But it isn't like that stuff in the can at all.
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Yep, corned beef is usually the brisket cut. I suppose you could "corn" about any beef though. It's just a brining process.
In fact, the USDA says you can use brisket, rump or round as I just found out.
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FWIW,
May is national BBQ month. I read that on the internet.
Canned corned beef is only edible when winter camping, mixed with scrambled eggs for breakfast. By that I mean, don't try it at home. For lack of a better description, it is "rather nasty".
Regards,
Malta
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Originally posted by Toad
Yep, corned beef is usually the brisket cut. I suppose you could "corn" about any beef though. It's just a brining process.
In fact, the USDA says you can use brisket, rump or round as I just found out.
The only civilized way to eat corned beef is cut from brisket, about 3" thick, on rye bread and served by a gruff old waiter in a Jewish Delicatessen...like the Carnagie or Wolfs, in NYC.
anything less is garbage...although I will say that a Montreal Smoked Meat sammich from Schwartz's is pretty damned close :)
DmdMax
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Originally posted by DMax
The only civilized way to eat corned beef is cut from brisket, about 3" thick, on rye bread and served by a gruff old waiter in a Jewish Delicatessen...like the Carnagie or Wolfs, in NYC.
anything less is garbage...although I will say that a Montreal Smoked Meat sammich from Schwartz's is pretty damned close :)
DmdMax
You forgot the white fish:)
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Originally posted by DMax
The only civilized way to eat corned beef is cut from brisket, about 3" thick, on rye bread and served by a gruff old waiter in a Jewish Delicatessen...like the Carnagie or Wolfs, in NYC.
anything less is garbage...although I will say that a Montreal Smoked Meat sammich from Schwartz's is pretty damned close :)
DmdMax
Close you say!! The war wages on......lol;)
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Originally posted by Casinoman
Some Mesquite Liquid Smoke...
you're liable to get lynched with talk like that in a thread like this ;)
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Smoked a corned beef brisket (2 lb) and a center loin pork roast (3lb) today using hickory and Max's guide. The brisket was good but not as "fall apart" tender as it could have been. The pork roast was very good. The brisket was smoked for 4 hours and roast for 7.
I need to find a dip or sauce. While neither was dry (I used the cooler tip) a sauce for the pork would have put it into the excellent category. I have always preferred pork BBQ. The mustard with rub was used on the brisket and only the rub for the pork. The rub described is excellent.:aok
Regards,
Malta
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Originally posted by stantond
Smoked a corned beef brisket (2 lb) and a center loin pork roast (3lb) today using hickory and Max's guide. The brisket was good but not as "fall apart" tender as it could have been. The pork roast was very good. The brisket was smoked for 4 hours and roast for 7.
I need to find a dip or sauce. While neither was dry (I used the cooler tip) a sauce for the pork would have put it into the excellent category. I have always preferred pork BBQ. The mustard with rub was used on the brisket and only the rub for the pork. The rub described is excellent.:aok
Regards,
Malta
Hmmm I smoke a brisket till its done. That could be up to 20 hours. You only smoked it for 4?
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What was your internal temp on the brisket when you pulled it off the smoker?
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I smoked a brisket today for 12 hours. Internal temp was about 205. It fell apart as I was trying to cut it and melted in your mouth. There aren't many things I'll get up at 4 am for, but smoking a brisket is one of 'em ;)
I really don't think you can properly do a brisket in 4 hours.
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I didn't measure the internal temperature (although I should, and could have). Since it was only 2 pounds, 4-1/2 (I originally said 4) hours seemed appropriate. From what I have read, 1-1/4 hours per pound is typical and I almost doubled that. If it was larger, (i.e. 10-12 pounds) I would have cooked it longer.
Maybe that is a problem with smaller cuts? This is the first brisket I have smoked. The meat was done and not tough, just not "fall apart" tender.
Regards,
Malta
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Originally posted by stantond
Smoked a corned beef brisket
Just double checking to make sure I get this correct...you smoked a corned brisket?
Beef brisket is marketed as fresh or corned. "Corned" refers to a salt/spice brine which cures the meat prior to cooking...which is normally that of simmering in water, or roasting. Fresh brisket is what is typically smoked.
Not to say that you can't smoke a corned brisket, but it's not typically done...unless you're in Montreal...and then it's a whole nuther story :)
Go to Costco, Sam's Club or wherever...ask the meat mgr for a USDA Choice beef brisket, 10-12 lbs range. Go back and read the tips...get a probe thermometer and let the brisket go untill it hits 190 degrees. It takes 10+ hrs, depending on the temperture of you heat source. When the buzzer on the thermometer goes off, open the smoked and push on the top of the meat. If it feels like Jello, smile and cut a slice off the end. If it falls apart in your mouth...or just about...wrap it in paper, foil and park it in an insulted cooler for at least 30 minutes.
I say again....IT'S DONE...WHEN IT'S DONE.
Max
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Originally posted by stantond
I didn't measure the internal temperature (although I should, and could have). Since it was only 2 pounds, 4-1/2 (I originally said 4) hours seemed appropriate. From what I have read, 1-1/4 hours per pound is typical and I almost doubled that. If it was larger, (i.e. 10-12 pounds) I would have cooked it longer.
Maybe that is a problem with smaller cuts? This is the first brisket I have smoked. The meat was done and not tough, just not "fall apart" tender.
Regards,
Malta
Whole packer cut Brisket should weigh about 12lbs or so. Cooking time would be about 12 hours or so ( Thanks Max for the correction ).
ITS DONE WHEN ITS DONE DAMNIT:)
Please write me so we can talk and I can save your bbq smoking soul. :)
AHsilat@comcast.net
:D
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I see a trip to Costo/Sams club in my future. This was a pre-packaged corned beef brisket from the local "Farm Fresh" grocery. If the corned (brined) beef process is the same for brisket as it is for country ham that would explain the difference in texture.
After refrigerating over night, the corned beef brisket has a mild peppery flavor not from the rub or smoke. It's better the second day. I haven't eaten much brisket but this is the best I've had so far.
Regards,
Malta
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Ding ... timer just went off.
... time to add the Andoulle and Louisiana hot links to the smoker.
The 8 lb, bone in, raw ham and the 9 lb buffalo hump roast has been smoking since 5am in the side box Brinkman, with my favorite wood blend, 4 parts hickory and one part each apple and sweet maple chips.
I used dry "essence" rub on the buffalo and let it sit overnight. The ham got a dry rub of mustard, brown sugar and chipote powder.
The baked beans will go in the smoker for the last two hours to pick up some smokey flavor.
Should be able to chow down round 6 or 7,
Have a happy Mothers Day all! :aok
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Originally posted by MrBill
... 9 lb buffalo hump roast has been smoking since 5am
Man! Never thought of that! Thanks for the idea. Several local farms around here that sell fresh home-grown bison.
Tell me how this turns out, please.
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I can tell you that now, it is GREAT!
Much tenderer and more flavorful than Beef. I do Bison a couple times a year. One of the advantages of living just a couple hours drive south of the Buffalo ranch in Southern Colorado.
There are a couple of butcher shops in Alamosa that feature Bison and other game, in season.
Last year I smoked a tongue, just wonderful.
Be aware large cuts can cause sticker shock. :)
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Alrighty then!
What cuts do you suggest?
Consider that I like beef brisket, pork loin and pork shoulder as far as chunks of smoked meat go.
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Buffler cuts are the same as beef except for the hump.
Rear quarter cuts are leaner than beef, side about the same, frount quarter have more fat.
Brisket is great if you like one you'll like the other.
Tri tip is more tender on Bison. Filet ... naw ya don't smoke filet. ;)
Ya ever smoke Bear? lot of tough meat, that really improves with smoking, on them critters.
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Originally posted by MrBill
Buffler cuts are the same as beef except for the hump.
Mr. Bill....NEVER use the word "hump" when responding to any thread Silat's subscribed to. It get's his heartbeat rate above clinical levels.
DmdMax
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Originally posted by DMax
Mr. Bill....NEVER use the word "hump" when responding to any thread Silat's subscribed to. It get's his heartbeat rate above clinical levels.
DmdMax
HUMP !!!! OK who is trying to get me excited?
:D