Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Vulcan on May 06, 2005, 12:16:34 AM
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Striptease is art, Oslo court rules
06 May 2005
OSLO: Striptease is art like opera or ballet, an Oslo court has ruled in a victory for nightclub owners over Norway's tax authorities.
"I'm very pleased. Ninety per cent of the guests here tell me that what I'm doing is art," a female stripper at the Dream Go Go Bar in the city of Trondheim told NRK radio.
The court ruled this week that striptease should be treated like other artistic stage shows, ranging from stand-up comedy to opera, for which tickets are exempt from value-added tax (VAT).
Tax authorities had demanded more than 1.0 million Norwegian crowns from the Blue Angel club in Oslo in unpaid VAT, arguing that strippers were not artists and so tickets to their shows were subject to VAT, normally 25 percent.
Lawyers for the Blue Angel, which contested the VAT demands, argued that undressing as nurses, police women or flamenco dancers demonstrated artistic flair. Tax authority lawyers said audiences were attracted to the shows by nudity, not art.
"Of course stripping is art," Magnus Morland, owner of the String Show Bar in Oslo, told Reuters. He said the ruling would let clubs operate with better margins and did not rule out cutting the 150 Norwegian crowns entry fee.
versus:
Texas to cheerleaders - no more booty-shaking
06 May 2005
AUSTIN: Texas lawmakers have sent a message to the state's high school cheerleaders: no more booty-shaking at the game.
The state's House of Representatives voted 85-55 to approve a bill that would forbid sexy cheers and give the Texas Education Agency authority to punish schools that allow "overtly sexually suggestive" routines at football games and other events.
The proposal must go to the Texas Senate for consideration.
"People are calling and telling me how disgusting it is to see sexually suggestive routines on the part of marching units or cheerleaders," said state representative Al Edwards, who sponsored the bill.
He complained of cheerleaders "shaking their behinds, breaking it down," but the proposal does not define what constitutes suggestive cheering.
Democratic state rep. Senfronia Thompson, also of Houston, said the bill was a waste of valuable time.
"I think the Texas Education Agency has enough to do making sure our kids are better educated, and we are wasting our time with 'one two three four, we can't shake it any more?"' Thompson told legislators.
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cue the remake of footloose
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I'm actually in favor of this. Since the locals can't or would not control decorum, the state stepped in. They can potato it up all they want in college. High school is completely different.
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Score one for the Euro's alright, morally bankrupt, decadent to the point of being w/out any knid of moral compass at all.
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Since when in the history of man has Europe been the world's moral standard? I'd venture to say NEVER.
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I'm in favor also, but I do not beleive that issues of morality should have ever been issues of government anywhere.
The day that any government can decide what will give a man a chubby is the day that the government will have total control over what a man is allowed to think.
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25% VAT?
WoW.
It's quite high.
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Originally posted by GREENTENERAL
The day that any government can decide what will give a man a chubby is the day that the government will have total control over what a man is allowed to think.
So, you would have no problem with child porn?
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Originally posted by NUKE
Since when in the history of man has Europe been the world's moral standard? I'd venture to say NEVER.
I'm guessing that you are catholic. If so, the answer for you should be, ALWAYS
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Originally posted by GREENTENERAL
I'm guessing that you are catholic. If so, the answer for you should be, ALWAYS
wow, seems like people on at this hour are mostly sleeping.
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Originally posted by NUKE
So, you would have no problem with child porn?
No one can control how someone else thinks about children, not even a government. So it is not a question of wheather I or anyone agrees with it.
Now, when it comes to someone abusing a child, we can intervene, and I beleive that a government can have that power.
Controlling what someone thinks is impossible. Also, child porn is a violation of that child. The child, being a child, is not of age to make sound decisions.
If consentual adults wish to engage in sexual behavior of any kind, it is none of my business, regardless of my own feelings or morals. It began with how they think, and in the end, I cannot control that, nor can a government. Agency is not something that we can give or take away as we are refined to physical reaction and interaction.
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Originally posted by GREENTENERAL
No one can control how someone else thinks about children, not even a government. So it is not a question of wheather I or anyone agrees with it.
So, if you had pictures of child porn on your computer, the government has no control over it and it's all okay?
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Originally posted by NUKE
wow, seems like people on at this hour are mostly sleeping.
I'm a nightowl, but it is good to find someone that is willing to debate at this hour, and someone that makes me think!
Unfortunately, I have to go to bed, but I look forward to other discussions.
peace out and ride the boogy
Christopher
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LOL, what a slippery slope. Stripping -> child porn.
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Originally posted by GREENTENERAL
I'm a nightowl, but it is good to find someone that is willing to debate at this hour, and someone that makes me think!
Unfortunately, I have to go to bed, but I look forward to other discussions.
peace out and ride the boogy
Christopher
when did you stop beating your wife?
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I think we had a preview of this a couple months ago at Checksix :D
Of course, the two local rednecks have to step in & comment on Yurop being the land of the devil (*shiver*). Have any of you two even set foot here, or do you get your ideas from "Trailerpark today"?
My mum always told me that if I didn't know... I should STFU. Well, apparently didn't have the same education (I sometimes wonder if you had any at all)
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Originally posted by rpm
I'm actually in favor of this. Since the locals can't or would not control decorum, the state stepped in. They can potato it up all they want in college. High school is completely different.
Somehow I wonder where the parents of those 14 year old cheerleaders are ? Oh, they are in the bleachers, cheering them on !!!
State is not regulating because parents aren't minding their own kids. Pathetic.
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Originally posted by NUKE
So, if you had pictures of child porn on your computer, the government has no control over it and it's all okay?
Of couse it's not ok, child porn is pics or vids of children, not adults. If an adult wants to be photographed, it is their business, but if it is a child, that is exploitation of someone that is not at the age of reason.
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Hmm.... Nuke and Steves "morals" or striptease.
:rofl
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Originally posted by bunch
when did you stop beating your wife?
LOL! not married yet, you almost gave me a heart attack!
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Originally posted by fd ski
Somehow I wonder where the parents of those 14 year old cheerleaders are ? Oh, they are in the bleachers, cheering them on !!!
State is not regulating because parents aren't minding their own kids. Pathetic.
Most likely it was parents that started all this...and I agree That high school age girls should not be using sexually suggestive moves.
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Play nice folks or someone will get hurt.
I think it is quite a stretch to compare professional strippers to 14-17 year old girls acting out in a sexual manner in front of an audience. So Vulcan, you are an advocate of this?
I also think it is insane for the state to try and step in and create a law about it. The only way the law will read will allow open interpretation at the school level.
If parents are having a problem with this, they need to step in at the school board level and deal with it. There is no way it should go any higher than that.
It is a firm sign of the lack of leadership from our local and state government, where they use exploitive measures to get thier own names in front of the people.
I would hope we all agree it should be in the parents corner to deal with this and should be taking note of the idiots who are behind pushing this to the state level, as well as the state officials who accept it as thier *responsibility*. All of them need to be booted out of office if they cannot deal with this in a rational manner.
A rational response would have been to push it back to the school boards and mandate they take care of the matter or find a new job.
As long as parents avoid doing the right thing for thier children, someone will have to take the fall for it. Once this is pushed back to the school board, it should be them who push it back on the parents. Put the problem where it belongs and quit wasting my tax dollars on superflous garbage such as this.
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They can have sex in front of an audience of adults? Ok, that is a bit more open than I would like.
Can they masturbate in front of audiences as well? Again, call me a prude, but I think that is a bit over the top.
And you are missing my main point. Right, wrong, indifferent is irrelevant. If they want to control it, then it should be handled by the individual school districts.
EDIT: So, once past 16 years of age, there is no such law regarding lewd behaviour or the public display of sex in Europe? Not to generalize all Europe in one basket, but more of a general question.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
They can have sex in front of an audience of adults? Ok, that is a bit more open than I would like.
Can they masturbate in front of audiences as well? Again, call me a prude, but I think that is a bit over the top.
Cant have sex infront of a paying audience or in public were people that dont want to can see them. No masturbation either.
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So it really is not a "free-for-all" once you are past 16. Thank you for clearing that up Nilsen.
And the cheerleaders are not nude, but they are rubbing themselves up quit a bit, a bit of crotch grabbing and breast massaging does go on.
I do not think it is a proper way to act in public, but abhor the idea of the state attempting to regulate it.
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Originally posted by GScholz
Nilsen, if only we could convey the full meaning of the word "russejente" to these Yanks. :D
mmm... yes. they are missing out :D
Seen Rocco & Russen?
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Originally posted by GScholz
*lol* no ... not yet. ;)
I dl it a few weeks ago. It sucks but a couple of the girls have real talent :aok
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Yeah..
Wish i could do it all aover again (without the school ofcourse) :D
Still have my Russ 94 suit and I used it last year at a reunion. Everyone went nuts just like back in 94 minus all the sex
:D
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From what I've heard on radio news this morning the Texas Senate is not willing to even look at the "Booty-bill" and has released a statement saying that it's something that should be regulated by the school districts if they see fit.
Personally I have no opinion on the subject as I dont go to HS football games so I wouldnt know the extent of the so-called "racey cheerleading". I'm sure if I did see it I'd be drooling though. hahahahahaha
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so kiddie porn is ok in snow bear country?
I don't think Texas ever taxed stippers tho. They just want them to be adult.
lazs
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snow bear.. ice bear... strippers... kids...
What's the difference?
lazs
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
snip
If parents are having a problem with this, they need to step in at the school board level and deal with it. There is no way it should go any higher than that.
It is a firm sign of the lack of leadership from our local and state government, where they use exploitive measures to get thier own names in front of the people.
Nail on the head.
No matter whether you agree or disagree that its not acceptable for high school cheerleaders to be allowed to act in sexually suggestive ways as a part of their school-related public exhibitions, it should be obvious that what we have here is blatant publicity whoring going on in the Texas Legislature.
I am so disgusted with these bastards that I can't properly express myself about it. Its not just this issue, its many other things they've done in recent years. Both sides (Republicans and Democrats) in our Legislature are worthless, IMO. If it were up to me, I'd disband the government immediately, including Governor Perry, and start from scratch.
That said, I would be against cheerleaders in my home school district being lewd in their performances, strictly because they are of an age that makes it inappropriate. Its not the same as child pornography, but it sniffs at the borderline of that area. I'd want the teachers and coaches in my home school district to teach their charges routines that avoided blatant sexuality so that there is no suggestion that its OK for youths to act that way in front of adults, and that there is no suggestion that its OK for adults to watch youths acting that way.
But I firmly believe Skuzzy is right, this is an example of an issue that should be decided and handled at the community level. I don't want the state or other communities telling my community how to act, and don't presume we should decide for anyone else.
culero
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I would agree also but... Not all parents are strong enough to fight their children and society..
What you gonna do? say no? Isn't that some form of child abuse these days... allmost like.... like... when barbarians swatted their kids to keep them behaving?
lazs
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This is emabarassing to most Texans, our legislature only meets for a few months every other year (one reason it is still a great place to live if you ask me) and when they meet they discuss crap like this instead of things that actually matter. FYI, it was a liberal Democrat from East Texas that sponsored this bill.
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i dated a cheerleader in high school, mmmm, those were the days.
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It is now law, by a slim margin. I have not felt this disgusted since the last time our state Congress was in session.
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A slight difference here.
Your talking ADULT strippers in private clubs Vrs
Teenage and sometimes younger CHILDREN performing in a highly sexualy suggestive way in public.
I am in no way what anyone here or many other places would consider a sexual prude (often to my wifes dismay:D )
But there is no way I think kids should be allowed to perform in the way some of them do these days And I think it is totally innproperiate for teenagers to be allowed to hump or otherwise suggest they are fondling themselves sexually in a school or otherwise public forum.
I've seen some of this watermelon first hand and thats about the best way to descibe what these kids are doing that has people in an uproar.
I support both the Norway Ruling and the vote in Texas.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
I do not think it is a proper way to act in public, but abhor the idea of the state attempting to regulate it.
I would think if the school boards did a better job of regulating it themselves there woudlnt have been a need of state interference no?
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Interference from the state should have been in the form of pushing it back to the school board's of the local districts and mandating they take care of it.
The action taken by the state is way out of line.
Basically, the parents do not want to do anything about the kids, and now the school board's do not want to do anything about the kids. Where the shizz does it stop?
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Originally posted by Saintaw
I think we had a preview of this a couple months ago at Checksix :D
Yeah, and the same Euros that missed the point then will miss the point now....
Obviously a strip club is an appropiate venue for- well, stripping and lewd behavior, whereas a high school football game isn't.
Try as you might to twist this...."comparison" into a question of personal freedom, but you're comparing apples and oranges here, unless the Oslo Courts have ruled lewd and lacivious behavior is an acceptable public display at sporting events.
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Originally posted by Airhead
Yeah, and the same Euros that missed the point then will miss the point now....
Obviously a strip club is an appropiate venue for- well, stripping and lewd behavior, whereas a high school football game isn't.
Try as you might to twist this...."comparison" into a question of personal freedom, but you're comparing apples and oranges here, unless the Oslo Courts have ruled lewd and lacivious behavior is an acceptable public display at sporting events.
I would venture to say that soccer is lewd and lacivious behavior... and thats allowed.
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Anybody seen "Trailer Park Boys"? I swear some inspiration is taken from this board.
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kids these days have all the luck
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Go back 50yrs. Elvis's hip swinging was considered lewd. Many of the dances in that day, which would now be considered prudish, were considered obscene. Wasn't Cubby Checkers "the Twist" considered Devil dancing by some?
Times change. Values change. What was considered "over the top" 20 years ago is mild by today’s standards.
I am not at all advocating High School girls suggestively doing cheers, and I also agree that this is a school board issue, vs. a state law.
BUT keep it in perspective. 50yrs from now they will probably laugh at that law wondering when the Amish took over the TX legislature.
(edit) no offence to any Amish who might feel insulted at being compared to a Texas State Legislator
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No sense in insulting the Amish by comparing them to what we have elected into office here.
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Dont think you'll find any Amish on here. I think there version of the "Internet" would be a line of folks relaying a verbal message from one end to the other. ;)
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Even more reason to not insult them. They cannot be here to defend themselves. :D
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http://www.down.net/amish/
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Since I happen to Work in Austin , and VERY near the capitol , and VERY near to the very Legislators that did this , I will say......
This "Law" has been amended and the Local School boards will have the say.
read the Bill.
I think it's a crock that this was even an issue.
Trust me when I say that the things that go on in the House is ...hmmmm...how do I say it tactfully....hmmmm....
a bit goofy?
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Originally posted by RedTop
This "Law" has been amended and the Local School boards will have the say.
I guess that is why the Senate was not only willing to bring it up for a vote but to actually approve it. Last I heard they were going to let it die.
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Originally posted by Steve
Score one for the Euro's alright, morally bankrupt, decadent to the point of being w/out any knid of moral compass at all.
You are comparing profecional stripers to highschool chearleaders. Don't you think there is a difference?
As far as the moral goes, it sounds like the problem was just taxes. Are there no tax paying strip clubs in the US, or is the US also morally bankrupt? Also, there is no chear leading (kids having sec with their clothes on) in EU. Sounds like Texas is the one with the problem.
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No problem Ded....
This bill was introduced by a minister who is a legislator. It has nothing to do with "Stripping". It has nothing to do with Taxes.....It all amounts to Cheerleaders in High School be allowed to do sexually suggestive dancing. No more no less.
It's also been amended so that basically it will be up to each school board to police it.
Some parents in a district complained about a routine done by the local Squad. It was shut down by the school board. If I am not mistaken...and I could be...it was in this Legislators district. He was made aware of it.
Media blitz and all it came to national attention. He made the circuts making his ponit and it passed.....from the house to the senate.
It passed by I think 4 votes.
I wouldn't put a whole lot of stock in it at all.
The Bill is full of holes. No standards of what is sexually suggestive at all.
This was nothing more than a statement bill and vote. Unfortunatley it got bigger than most Texans , myself included would have ever wanted.
Its just someone pushing and agenda....what a shock...its Politics.
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vague and arbitrary laws are not legal and can be challenged.
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Originally posted by john9001
vague and arbitrary laws are not legal and can be challenged.
I'm not debating the "Law" or this "Bill". I am simply making it a bit easier to understand where it came from.
I'm not challenging it eiher. It doesnt effect 1 aspect of my daily life in the least.
I simply agree with alot here in this state that this is a stupid bill that has wasted time that they don't have to waste. Without going into to much detail I am fairly knowledgeable on what goes on during the session of the legislature.
They waste a ton of time and crunch in the end. Much like a Colledge student who drinks beer and parties until a week before finals. Then say well I guess I better cram and pass.
The state needs a balanced budget , revamping of the Education system , and quite a few other things. Instead they worry with 12 million dollars to help the under privledged fix thier dang cars.
I'll leave it at this.......Texas is not uniqe I'm sure in the aspect of the legislature and how does business. I feel fairly confident that every state is the same basically.
Politics means exactly what the guy said in the movie "The Hunt for red october".....
"WHen Im not kissing babies I'm stealing thier lollipops".
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OK, clue me in.
Parent A's child is a cheerleader and the Director of Cheerleading has all the teenage girls dry-humping the megaphones, rubbing their chests and massaging their crotches at the football game in front of a cast of thousands.
Does the parent not have one simple option here?
Am I missing something?
Parents are either part of the problem or part of the solution. Choose.
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Originally posted by Toad
OK, clue me in.
Parent A's child is a cheerleader and the Director of Cheerleading has all the teenage girls dry-humping the megaphones, rubbing their chests and massaging their crotches at the football game in front of a cast of thousands.
Does the parent not have one simple option here?
Am I missing something?
Parents are either part of the problem or part of the solution. Choose.
Toad, do you have a link? Uh...preferably video? Not that I don't believe you about megaphone humping, but I'd like to see this for myself.
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Yes Toad...exactly.
I should also say that MOST laws that pass out of the house are slam dunks. The vote I mentioned and the margin of 4 was on second reading. And when the "First" Vote was taken on second reading it was a tie. 64-64. The speaker looked at the Arthur of the bill and said it failled. I am sure because he had the tie breaking vote. However the guy asked for a record vote. when all was done it was like 4 votes differnce and it passed to 3rd reading because some people wern't there to have their vote recorded. so they were a nothing vote. When it was tallied more of the No votes wernt there than the yes votes and BAM...passed to 3rd reading...where it passed by a larger margin.
It only passed by THAT margin because of the ammendment if I heard correctly.
It will all be up to the school boards anyway....like it should be to begin with. SHould have never been brought up.
I don't think cheerleaders have any business doiig what they were doing. But the Legislature should have been quiet. The TEA Comissioner should have been told behind closed doors to get a handle on it or find a new job.
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well... I would say that making a law is allways a bad thing. If it is that bad and a danger to children then the state should fire the school adminestrators who are not keeping it under control.
It seems that they are not doing their job.
lazs
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Originally posted by Toad
OK, clue me in.
Parent A's child is a cheerleader and the Director of Cheerleading has all the teenage girls dry-humping the megaphones, rubbing their chests and massaging their crotches at the football game in front of a cast of thousands.
Does the parent not have one simple option here?
Am I missing something?
Parents are either part of the problem or part of the solution. Choose.
Toad, as to how a family member is involved, I agree 100%.
However, I'd also say a community member has an interest in what the teachers in a local school expose the children to, and that local community action at the school district level in matters like this is an important and appropriate thing.
This BS in the state legislature, OTOH, is publicity whoring, nothing more nothing less. It should be considered as abuse of office and reason to remove those involved, IMO.
culero
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Originally posted by lazs2
well... I would say that making a law is allways a bad thing. If it is that bad and a danger to children then the state should fire the school adminestrators who are not keeping it under control.
It seems that they are not doing their job.
lazs
lazs, even though I agree with you in that these administrators should be held accountable, I do NOT want someone from the state coming to my local school district and dealing with it, including having the power to fire my school district's administrators. These are local issues and should be left to the local voting populace to deal with.
culero
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What in the world could they be doing with their clothes on that's so vulgar? Dry humping each other?
Are they assuming a 3 point stance and slapping eachother on the bellybutton like the football players?
Texans also thought that Elvis was also very vulgar and explicitly sexually suggestive on stage.
The world is a rorschach test.
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cuelro... no... didn't mean fire em at the local level... meant firing them at the state level. meant things like funding.
Your state mandates certain levels of .... well... everything else in schools or cuts funding right?
lazs
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Originally posted by culero
However, I'd also say a community member has an interest in what the teachers in a local school expose the children to, and that local community action at the school district level in matters like this is an important and appropriate thing.
culero
Agreed. Any offended community member has two options the way I see it. Protest directly to the school/school board AND vote with their feet.
Don't go to the games. If the stands are suddenly empty, I'm sure the message will be even louder.
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Originally posted by Toad
Agreed. Any offended community member has two options the way I see it. Protest directly to the school/school board AND vote with their feet.
Don't go to the games. If the stands are suddenly empty, I'm sure the message will be even louder.
I'm more in favor of addressing the school board, and then addressing their actions in the voting booth (which, BTW, I am suddenly reminded I must go do this morning, local school board election day here today).
The games are a local community-building function, and much more is harmed by non-attendance than is gained relative to the side issue of the cheerleaders. I'd rather see a pro-active approach than a passive one when something like this is a problem.
culero
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Originally posted by lazs2
cuelro... no... didn't mean fire em at the local level... meant firing them at the state level. meant things like funding.
Your state mandates certain levels of .... well... everything else in schools or cuts funding right?
lazs
Yes, but unless the mandates involve adherance to standards and results regarding education, I don't want the state involved, period. This would seem to be an issue that isn't related to education, but to morals, which should be limited to the community level.
culero
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Originally posted by culero
I'm more in favor of addressing the school board,
culero
Take the case to the school and school board. If they fail to act vote them out and/or boycott the games until changes are made.
You folks can choose to be victors or victims.
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Originally posted by Toad
Take the case to the school and school board. If they fail to act vote them out and/or boycott the games until changes are made.
You folks can choose to be victors or victims.
Exactly. My only quibble here is that I think boycotting games isn't appropriate.
culero
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Well, if they refuse to change you can either acccept that or take it to another level. It's a choice.
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what do you mean? the states mandate all kinds of behavior in schools or cut funding.
I personaly think that there is no "one school fits all"... that is the socialist way and it sucks.
I believe in vouchers. I would like to see the public schools compete for education dollars.
lazs
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lazs I know that's a fact, but I don't agree it should be. The state should mandate minimum standards that schools have to educate their students to, nothing more. The rest should be local discretion.
IMO, of course. You and your neighbors handle it as you wish where you live, please :)
culero
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Once again my faith in the company I work for is reinforced. Here's today's EDITORIAL OPINION PIECE (http://www.themonitor.com/SiteProcessor.cfm?Template=/GlobalTemplates/Details.cfm&StoryID=7127&Section=Opinion) which happens to address this stupid episode.
Excerpt:
The Texas Legislature has no business getting involved in the waving of pompoms. Dance routine monitoring should remain the province of, first, parents and, second, the schools. The actions of the House did nothing more than invite national ridicule upon our state.
They should be ashamed of themselves for engaging in such foolishness, wasting our time and money. We are heartened only by the fact that most of those who represent the Valley refused to succumb to such idiocy.
I knew I liked my editor already, now I'm gonna give him an "attaboy" tomorrow :)
culero
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culero... I agree wholeheartedly with you that the schools should educate and nothing else. This is impossible tho for any school. What we need is vouchers.
If you didn't like the moral tone of your school... take your money elsewhere. None of us have that choice tho... the big NEA soicialist union controls the schools and you have no say.. the money is extorted out of you by state and local governments... soo..
You have every right to ask for whatever you want from making all the kids have uniforms from neck to ankle to making orgies mandatory... ther is after all... only one school system for all beliefs... someone will allways be offended or, at least... not get what they want.
if you only have one school then it better be the most moral it can be... there should be no way that it could be constued as being lewd. If you allow behavior that offends a large population of people being extorted for funds to run it then you should quash that behavior.
With vouchers you can have a free love school if so inclined.
lazs
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Yeah, lazs, I'm familiar with the concept and agree in theory its great. I'm skeptical of it only because I fear ill effects that might arise from its implementation.
Although I see myself as a libertarian, I'm actually comfortable with tax-supported schools, so long as control of them resides at the community level. I feel this is one of the basic functions that is best served by local government.
If I or any other citizen is unhappy with policy in the local school district, as concerned citizens we have the ability to influence what the local school board does about it.
If the local school board rather than state of Federal government is in charge, that is.
Don't get me wrong, I do see your point and agree it is based in valid reasoning. Its just one of those issues where I feel the cons outweigh the pros.
culero
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well... that is fine but what ends up happening is that who knows what the local standards my be? Some people in the community are genuinely offended by programs of their school system and... they have no choice. they are having the money extorted out of them.
Their choice is to move. That is not much of a choice but people do it... houses in some school districts go for more than others.
Vouchers would allow you to vote with your dollar.
Public schools should be plain jane vanilla and work to offend the fewest of the poor suckers they are extorting funds from.
I don't happen to think they work tho. I believe that we are getting the least for our extorted dollar that is even possible so far as public schools go. They are a model of government waste.
lazs
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
They can have sex in front of an audience of adults? Ok, that is a bit more open than I would like.
Can they masturbate in front of audiences as well? Again, call me a prude, but I think that is a bit over the top.
Nothing I haven't seen in Amsterdam. Never really thought of it as a big deal. If ever you get over to Europe, I'll take you there and we'll have a few beers in the Banana Club. You'll be a changed man. ;) The "floor" of the area behind the bar is pretty much level with the beer taps. It's kind of nice being served a beer by a naked lady.
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No thanks for me beet... naked 12 year old girls don't do it for me...I am not real comfortable with them simulating sexual moves in front of me.
lazs
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No, no - not children. All over 18/21 or whatever the age is.
Oh, and we're not talking about simulation here either.
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not sure I get your point beetle.
Who cares what adults do in a club for adults? There is a huge difference tho with cheerleading in public. I really don't want to see the kids simulating sexual moves.
lazs
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this is the dumbest argument ever. Comparing Adult strippers to underage chearleaders and making it a matter of morality???
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
If parents are having a problem with this, they need to step in at the school board level and deal with it.
The problem is that when you go there and voice your concerns they call the cops and have you arrested
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lazs - sorry, I should have read the thread from the top.
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Umm, actually I was giggling about the Euro's calling stripping "art", I wonder how many of us are art connisuers now? And on the flipside the Texans, in the land of the free, having to pass this law. I didn't realize this applied to 14 year olds (my bad).
What suprises me, is aren't these kids supervised in some way when practising their routines?
It would seem to me that this "children" learn their routines at school (first point you should address) and morals/ethics from home. Legislating against these moves just shows ignorance in addressing the real problem.
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Originally posted by lazs2
snip
I don't happen to think they work tho. I believe that we are getting the least for our extorted dollar that is even possible so far as public schools go. They are a model of government waste.
lazs
I won't say there's no waste, but we do have active contests for school board positions in our community and waste is often a topic during the campaigns. It was a major issue in the one we just voted yesterday.
I will say that I am well pleased with the excellent results produced by the local public schools. We have active community involvement, and it shows.
If you're not happy with what's happening there, perhaps there's a clue here. Good public schools don't happen by accident.
culero
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Originally posted by Sixpence
The problem is that when you go there and voice your concerns they call the cops and have you arrested
Surely not, unless you do so out of order.
culero
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Quote
"Teenage and sometimes younger CHILDREN performing in a highly sexualy suggestive way in public."
Sounds like any number of Christina Aguilera, Brittany spears etc etc videos we get on our TV screens !!!
Personaly I think its crap and being as its marketed at kids its double crap. ( hit me baby as the lyrics to a song by a teenager dressed up in school uniform! Paedophiles paradise and on TV every bloody day for months )
I agree it all stinks.
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Originally posted by Skydancer
( hit me baby as the lyrics to a song by a teenager dressed up in school uniform! Paedophiles paradise and on TV every bloody day for months )
I agree it all stinks.
Yeah, but we know you got the poster on your wall you perv.
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cuelro... what you have is no choice. There is no way that you will please even most of the people with one school system.
I just feel that it is unfair to allow one group of people to do all the educating of the young and....
Waste... I don't care how much food they throw out or how many lights they keep burning... I am saying that the quality of education that comes out of public schools is a huge waste. A catholic school student will achieve twice as much for half the money.
I am glad that you have achieved some amount of control over your school.... I am sure that not everyone is as happy with it's direction as you are tho.
There simply should be choice and that choice depends on vouchers.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
There simply should be choice and that choice depends on vouchers.
lazs [/B]
There already IS choice in education, Lazs- private schools are flourishing without the tax income vouchers would create.
All vouchers would accomplish is eliminating public schools in the poorest areas of America.
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Originally posted by Airhead
Toad, do you have a link? Uh...preferably video? Not that I don't believe you about megaphone humping, but I'd like to see this for myself.
I too would like to view the megaphone humping....purely to check out what the fuss is about of course...
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Originally posted by beet1e
Nothing I haven't seen in Amsterdam. Never really thought of it as a big deal. If ever you get over to Europe, I'll take you there and we'll have a few beers in the Banana Club. You'll be a changed man. ;) The "floor" of the area behind the bar is pretty much level with the beer taps. It's kind of nice being served a beer by a naked lady.
Been to Europe many times, and Amsterdam a few times. Maye it was the people I was with, but none of them ever mentioned we could go to a bar to watch naked 14 year old girls masterbate. I am sure you can, and I am sure you can find this here as well.
You may be ok with that, but I am not.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Been to Europe many times, and Amsterdam a few times. Maye it was the people I was with, but none of them ever mentioned we could go to a bar to watch naked 14 year old girls masterbate. I am sure you can, and I am sure you can find this here as well.
You may be ok with that, but I am not.
You can't find that... not legal clubs anyway. I guess you can find illegal clubs everywere tho.
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"There already IS choice in education, Lazs- private schools are flourishing without the tax income vouchers would create.
All vouchers would accomplish is eliminating public schools in the poorest areas of America."
I dissagree. there is no choice if it means you have to pay for two schools... the public extorted one and the one you choose. most can't afford that.
as for your second premise.... think about it. what are the public schools that most need eliminating? the ones in poor districts... they are the worst. if everyone had the same vocher money then the poor could send their kids to the catholic school down the street. Studies have shown the the worst inner city kidds improve dramaticaly under private schooling.
lazs
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Been to Europe many times, and Amsterdam a few times. Maye it was the people I was with, but none of them ever mentioned we could go to a bar to watch naked 14 year old girls masterbate. I am sure you can, and I am sure you can find this here as well.
You may be ok with that, but I am not.
No, not children.
And I am not "OK with it". I meant to say that what I saw in A'dam didn't surprise me, knowing A'dam! I don't know of any bars/theatres where underage children are allowed to perform sex acts. I went to one of those theatre shows (with my wife - lol) just to see what it was about. I felt saddened afterwards, and would not want to go again.
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Originally posted by Steve
Score one for the Euro's alright, morally bankrupt, decadent to the point of being w/out any knid of moral compass at all.
:rofl
I think there is a little bit diference between stripters in bars and cheap half nude school girls.
We Euros are so immoral.. damm ..
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Interference from the state should have been in the form of pushing it back to the school board's of the local districts and mandating they take care of it.
The action taken by the state is way out of line.
Basically, the parents do not want to do anything about the kids, and now the school board's do not want to do anything about the kids. Where the shizz does it stop?
my words... i were just about to ask about it.
Does anybody here have daughter, whitch is member of sutch exhibition group ?
What motivates them to do it ?
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Originally posted by lada
Does anybody here have daughter, whitch is member of sutch exhibition group ?
What motivates them to do it ?
Money, most likely. I don't think it's job satisfaction.