Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Eagler on September 13, 2001, 02:03:00 PM
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If Iraq indeed hired/instructed/asked Bin Laden to mastermind this attack:
Does Bush Jr have the guts and backing of the country/world to finish the job once and for all? If the Taliban quickly gives Osama Bin Laden over to us, how do we know it is really even Bin Laden? Couldn't they doctor up a look alike to take the fall? Do we have DNA on file to confirm? On the other hand, wouldn't Sadam quickly sacrifice him to us to divert attention away from the real root of evil here? Wouldn't Israeli gov want to point us at Palestine instead of Iraq?
Even if Sadam had nothing to do with it (which I doubt) we should drop a fat one on his arse for good measure anyway..
JERUSALEM [MENL--9/12/01] -- Iraq is believed to have recruited Saudi
billionaire fugitive Osama Bin Laden and his Islamic allies to carry out
the suicide attacks around the United States.
Israeli officials and intelligence analysts said the suicide hijackings
that downed the World Trade Center and destroyed parts of the Pentagon
was too large an operation for any one group. The analysts said the
operation was also too big even for a coalition of Islamic terrorists
headed by Saudi billionaire fugitive Osama Bin Laden. Bin Laden is
accused of masterminding the bombings of the U.S. embassies in eastern
African in 1998.
Intelligence sources briefed the Cabinet of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon
on late Tuesday, hours after the catastrophe in New York and Washington.
The sources were quoted as telling the Cabinet that a Middle East
government was probably the sponsor of the attack.
The most likely sponsor for such an attack, the sources said, is Iraq.
The Baghdad regime has long maintained an alliance with Bin Laden and
Islamic groups.
"All the steps lead to him [Bin Laden]," Reuven Paz, a leading expert on
Islamic terrorism, said. "Of all the countries, Iraq seems the most
reasonable [candidate]."
In Baghdad, Iraqi state television appeared to welcome the bombings. The
television said the spate of attacks demonstrated the vulnerability of
the United States.
"The massive explosions in the centers of power in America, notably the
Pentagon, is a painful slap in the face of U.S. politicians to stop
their illegitimate hegemony and attempts to impose custodianship on
peoples," the television said. "It was no coincidence that the World
Trade Center was destroyed in suicidal operations involving two planes
that have broken through all U.S. security barriers to carry the
operation of the century and to express rejection of the reckless U.S.
policy."
"The collapse of U.S. centers of power is a collapse of the U.S. policy,
which deviates from human values and stands by world Zionism at all
international forums to continue to slaughter the Palestinian Arab
people and implement U.S. plans to dominate the world under the cover of
what is called the new [world] order," the television added. "These are
the fruits of the new U.S. order."
The Israeli Cabinet was informed that the United States might launch a
massive attack on Iraq and Afghanistan over the coming days. The sources
said such an attack could prompt a regional war.
On early Wednesday, Afghanistan appeared to have been a target of
retaliation. Several bombings were heard in the Afghan capital of Kabul.
U.S. officials denied that their country was responsible.
In the aftermath of the suicide bombings in the United States, Israel
closed its air space. Israel also warned the Palestinian Authority to
immediately stop all attacks against the Jewish state.
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What are you going to target in Iraq?
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Originally posted by Dowding:
What are you going to target in Iraq?
good question
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If a connection is proven to Iraq I would say it's time to completely remove the Iraqi gov't and take their oil fields for reparations
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What are you going to target in Iraq?
Target and kill Saddam Hussain if his support and enlistment of bin Laden is shown.
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How do you kill a man who's location is only known by less than 10 people at any one time?
How much 'collateral' damage do you accept do get him?
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Intelligence. It won't happen overnight.
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Originally posted by Dowding:
What are you going to target in Iraq?
The country as a whole if it proves to be true. Whatever means it takes to kill Saddam and remove his existing government from Iraq.
I am sure there will be many civilian casualties, this is a sad, terrible, thing.
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How much 'collateral' damage do you accept do get him? ........hmmmm how about 10,000 for starters
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Most of the world is scared to death of the frightening potential of terrorism today. This is a threat to survival.
What will it be next? LSD or Botulism in the water supply of some great city? Another hijacked jet plowed into a nuclear power plant, poisoning a whole continent?
No. What needs to be done, will be done. Massive civilian casualties won't be necessary. When the whole world, or most of it, is committed to root out terroristS and those who harbor them, you will see some effective action.
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An 'eye for an eye' hasn't worked for Israel and the Palestinians. Why will it work now?
I think a global policy to tackle a global problem is the only way forward.
[ 09-13-2001: Message edited by: Dowding ]
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This isn't an "eye for an eye" in my view.
Most of the world stands with the USA. Sure, those most hurt by this will express intense anger, but world-wide, this is more like treating a disease.
There has never been more potential for harm from terroristic acts than now. Treatment may require radical surgury, but I don't think of it as an eye for an eye.
Cuba for instance, stands with the USA on this, and presumably will support us in some way in our effort to rid the world of the perpetrators. As far as I know, Cuba has not been a victim of terrorism, but recognises it for what it is. That doesn't sound like "eye for an eye". It sounds like world-wide mobilization against a disease.
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You cant bomb the whole country to get one person.
Targets, Many
Airports, and every plane there
Communications, radio, telephone, microwave towers
Power
Oil Refineries
Ports
Ships
All government buildings
All military installations and Every piece of military equipment Iraq has
Every "palace" he has
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Remember the Gulf War. We "just missed him" three times as I recall.
One time, the aircraft strafing the column he was in got his body guards but he "dodged the bullet."
He's not as hard to locate as some would think. Command and control functions usually result in some kind of electronic emission.
Take my word on this... we're REAL GOOD at that pinpointing electronic emission stuff.
If we decide to take him out, he's a walking dead man. Only actual day/time group will remain in question.
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Originally posted by Dowding:
An 'eye for an eye' hasn't worked for Israel and the Palestinians. Why will it work now?
I think a global policy to tackle a global problem is the only way forward.
[ 09-13-2001: Message edited by: Dowding ]
I'm with you on this one, Dowding. Those terrorists who used human beings as weapons in their holy war were only interested in their own selfish aims, no matter the cost to innocent others (i.e., ends justify the means). We have to be more sophisticated than that in our war against this kind of evil. We can't go around killing innocent people or we're no better than these terrorists.
Once, again, I find it repugnant that any sane person would so frivously advocate the use of nuclear weapons against anyone as Eagler seems so easily to be able to do in this thread. Sorry, bud, but I think you're dead wrong. This kind of thinking will only take us into the pilot seat of another American Airlines flight 11. (metaphorically speaking, of course)
Buhdman, out
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Originally posted by buhdman:
I'm with you on this one, Dowding. Those terrorists who used human beings as weapons in their holy war were only interested in their own selfish aims, no matter the cost to innocent others (i.e., ends justify the means). We have to be more sophisticated than that in our war against this kind of evil. We can't go around killing innocent people or we're no better than these terrorists.
Once, again, I find it repugnant that any sane person would so frivously advocate the use of nuclear weapons against anyone as Eagler seems so easily to be able to do in this thread. Sorry, bud, but I think you're dead wrong. This kind of thinking will only take us into the pilot seat of another American Airlines flight 11. (metaphorically speaking, of course)
Buhdman, out
Buhdman
The referance to a "fat one" was not meant to be atomic or nuclear only a bomb(s) which kills this scum, once and all. A Nuclear response scares the hell out of me. Once that cat is let out of the bag, there is no way to put it back. Sorry for the confusion..
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Yes yes oil fields for reparations. Now that we will control Iraq i wonder if well beable to get into OPEC?
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the us government will be hard pressed to find saddam or bin ladin.
How many people you want to kill? Hell we can killing all if you want. There just "ragheads" and "zealots" and no where near being like us.
You gonna send your children into afghanistan to get him or into bahgdad to find saddam?
Its one thing to be angry and hurt but keep a head on your shoulders.
If done the wrong way the WTC could end up seeming like "minor tragedy" compared to what some are prepared to do.
At the very best how long are you prepared to keep troops in Iraq or afghanistan? Because they will have to stay there or the next nut will pop up.
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You missed one vital point Wotan: We aren't going after just the leaders. Their cronies will continue on if we get just the leaders, this time we're going for as many as we can get our hands on.
-SW
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Guys, You really need to start thinking this thing out a bit deeper. Did this country fold up after FDR died or when JFK was assassinated? Would England or Russia had surrender if Churchill or Stalin had been killed? There is always a second stringer waiting to take over.
I'm really amazed by the number of people that think killing a handful of terrorists or a few leaders in the mideast is going to put an end to this. Your not going to scare these people. Would the above make you give up, when you believe your right? How many terrorists have the Israel killed over the years? Has it stopped them?
We're either going to, as in the case of Iraq or a number of other country over there. Invade, occupy and remove the government or close our eyes and give the Arab nations the green light to slaughter the jews. Then pray, that all they want.
If I'm wrong about this, what was the point of invading germany? Read through the history books. What country or war was ever stopped by a handfull of deaths? Look at what it took to make Japan surrender.
If we don't have the balls to take this thing all the way. The next explosion you'll see in the not to distant future, will be them nuking us. They sure as hell have proved to me that they could pull it off.
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we should target the entire infrastructure of Terrorist organizations. wage war on all aspects of the org's.
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Saddam is smoking a fat cigar in hes mansion, laughing his bellybutton off.
20 years he has done that, wars come and go but only thing it has accomplished is to make the Iraq people more fanatic.
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...20 years he has done that, wars come and go but only thing it has accomplished is to make the Iraq people more fanatic.
The people of Iraq don't like Saddam. But since dissent is a crime punishable by death (after torture), they are not going to openly show their true feelings. Some brave souls do run an underground over there, but it has had few successes.
Newguy2 has hit the nail on the head. We need to be trying to prevent this kind of action in the future, not dragging the world into a cycle of violence.
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Originally posted by Dowding:
The people of Iraq don't like Saddam. But since dissent is a crime punishable by death (after torture), they are not going to openly show their true feelings. Some brave souls do run an underground over there, but it has had few successes.
Newguy2 has hit the nail on the head. We need to be trying to prevent this kind of action in the future, not dragging the world into a cycle of violence.
Right on. Even in America the Beautiful, you will find that the kind of "hate those that are different" mentality that causes this kind of senseless violence is rapmant everywhere you look. Refer to my post "We Must Rise Above This!" for just a taste of the kind of "domestic terrorism" going on in the aftermath of Tuesday's tragedy. We simply have to stop hating and stop teaching our children to hate. That's the only way we're going to put an end to this kind of thing. IMHO.
Buhdman, out
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I'm hoping that terrorists do not yet have access to nukes or bio weapons. If they will fly airplanes into buildings, you can bet they will use them if they have them.
I have never heard so many people even discussing the use of US nukes as I have in the last few days, on tv and NPR. Granted, it's only been three or four times, and fortunately it's been people no longer in the government and people that have no influence on the government, but to even discuss it as an option is insane and scary.
Once we move, on any front, I imagine it will get worse on US soil before it gets better.
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Why don't you just combine the two philosophies here? 1) punish the hell out of those responsible for this and every other terrorist attack. 2) work to stop the conditions that cause the terrorists to act.
unfortunately, #2 will only happen if the US only involvement in the Middle East is buying their oil from them. As long as we support Israel in any way, most of the Middle East will oppose us. As long as we maintain any presence over there, they will hate us and continue to do what they're doing.
Dowding (i think it was him) brought up an interesting point in another thread a couple of days ago. Since we've now basically said we're going after ALL terrorists and not just those targeting the US, does that mean the IRA is next after we deal with the Middle East groups? Will we (the world, not just the US) extend military action to groups in South America as well?
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It's either hot air or a promise. I've heard the government say more than once that terrorism around the world is the target. That's a hell of a lot more involved than just this incident and I'm afraid that if it's carried out, we ain't seen nothing yet. I've heard the government prepping us for "the long run" and "many US casualties"; I haven't heard them yet prepping us for possible (probable?) future attacks on US soil.
I'm hoping this does not eventually turn into another eye-for-an-eye thing that spirals around from attack to retaliation, the very thing that I hate about the whole Middle East situation.
I don't see how the US can police the entire world against terrorism (probably why they are shoring up international support) and I don't even know if I can see how international support can police the entire world. This is not a country we are at war with, it's terrorism that may not necessarily be state sponsored. One way would be to remove the governments that harbor terrorists -- and who's gonna take responsiblity to do that, and would it make a difference anyways?
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"I am sure there will be many civilian casualties, this is a sad, terrible, thing."
"How much 'collateral' damage do you accept do get him? ........hmmmm how about 10,000 for starters "
Sounds like something bin Laden might have said to his boys, before they headed off. Golly-geen morons! You just don't get it do you?
[ 09-14-2001: Message edited by: Thrawn ]