Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Steve on May 06, 2005, 07:52:42 PM
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A friend of mine who lives two doors down approached me, asking for help. He had 35k in equity in his house that he wanted to get out but his credit was so bad that he couldn't get approved for the refinanance. He asked that I buy his house, rent is back to him, and then he'd buy it back(at market value) from me when he could qualify.
I told him he was crazy, that this was an incredibly stupid thing for him to do and that he should bite the bullet until he could qualify. He persisted, saying he needed the money badly and that he had no options because he didn't want to move.
My friend, his name is Eric, persisted. We had the conversation repeatedly over several weeks with this result: I'd tell him I'd do it if he really wanted but that it was a terrible deal for him over the long run. To entice me, Eric offered 10k(or maybe I demanded, can't remember) up front to offset the risk of having a renter in a house I owned. I was hesitant to do this knowing Eric's penchant for losing all his money at the casino and the fact that he was in a cash buisness that could land him in jail at any time. Over my repeated warnings, he continued to want me to do this. Finally I relented.
Unfortunately I had just started my own business and I couldn't qualify. I came up w/ an idea and asked my good friend Ron to go in on it with me. He and I would split the equity 50-50 when we sold the house back to Eric. The deal went through and Ron and I split the intial 10k 50-50. We both netted $3700.00 up front after closing costs.
Meanwhile, because of the higher mortgage,(150k to 185k) the payment, and thus Eric's rent, went up to $1420.00 per month from $1100.00. Our rental agreement was for 2 years; gauranteeing that Ron and I would make at least a little money in appreciation.
6 months go by, Eric was on time with the rent exactly once, complaining every time that he was paying too much and that he wished he lived in a smaller house.(Yes, even though the whole thing was his idea)
Finally, after the 6th month, Eric approaches me and tells me he'd like to move out and asks me if I would consider letting him out of the lease. I talk to Ron and he agrees, only because he has also started his own business and needed some capital. We decide to sell the house.
Well, the housing market has gone wild and the house has appreciated in a mere 6 months time from $187,500 to $329,900. I mentioned this to Eric and we immediately went from being good friends to having him act like a jerk every time I talked to him.
I finally asked Eric WTH his problem is and he tells me that he's upset the house appreciated so much and that he feels he is "morally" entitled to get his 10k back since Ron and I are going to make so much money in so short of a time. There was never any such agreement and Eric is breaking the lease but he thinks getting his 10k back is "only fair".
Poll question: does Eric deserve a dime? If so, how much and why? If not, why?
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No.
No agreement.
He was late..complaining
You and your other bud did HIM the favor
You owe him nothing. He just made a bad decision.
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Well.. you DID tell him it was a bad thing to do, but he INSISTED to do it.
You did get an excellent deal though :D
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No, you don't owe him a thing. I can certainly see why he'd be pissed off though.
The moral of the story is... don't do favors involving money with friends. Don't lend it, don't borrow it. Granted, your situation is a little more complex than that.
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You did a deal with a drug dealer, and you expected exactly what?
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split the net profit three ways.
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depends. is Eric a friend? A real friend? If he is, then yeah, you should kick him back some money. If he isn't, then no, don't give him a dime.
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If he was being nice I would be nice. Since he is being a dick and didnt stick to the deal screwem.
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If the market had dropped and you had to sell and lost money, would he have helped cover your loose?
Hell no.
You owe him nothing.
Business is business.
He did the deal, he sold any and all interests in it, including any rights to future profits.
Dont let a whining fool feeling sorry for himself make you feel bad.
dago
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If you value your friendship or fear for your personal safety/effects give him the $10K, it should not break up a friendship nor is it worth getting shot over.
If neither of those are an issue give him $5K so you can feel really good about yourself and sleep like a baby, plus even he must realize you are just being generous at that point..
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This cannot be answered by anyone other than yourself.
Is he a casual aquantance or is he a bro?
When you answer that to yourself you will have the answer.
Money is less than Jack watermelon when it comes to bros.
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If he's a good friend, and you value his friendship, give him back the ~3700. He was late with rent and broke the lease, and that was your "upfront profit" after closing.
Up to Ron if he wants to give back his ~3700.
If ya don't care if ya never talk to him again, don't give him ****.
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No
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You did a deal with a drug dealer, and you expected exactly what?
Who's a drug dealer?
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I wouldn't give him a dime. sometimes things dont go your way. tell him he's like kobe and your shaq. You made a deal and look at ya now...PLAYOFFS BEYATCH! if he continues to run his mouth kick his arse. ADULTS kick other ADULTS's arses all the time... after getting the money but a ferrari and drive by his house screaming "I'm RICH BEYATCH!!!!!" That's just my Opinion. My backup is he was a jerk too ya and opted out.
MEGASTUDLYDUD:D
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Eric's penchant for losing all his money at the casino and the fact that he was in a cash buisness that could land him in jail at any time
That narrows it down some.
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Originally posted by CavemanJ
If he's a good friend, and you value his friendship, give him back the ~3700. He was late with rent and broke the lease, and that was your "upfront profit" after closing.
Up to Ron if he wants to give back his ~3700.
If ya don't care if ya never talk to him again, don't give him ****.
Well, I'm the Ron in this story and I'm probably going to give him something if we get full price for the house and IF he remains reasonable.
Eric really has been a pain though....and I really didn't want to buy his house to begin with.
And when Steve says that he warned Eric that this was a bad deal for him, it's a HUGE understatement. Steve told Eric that it was a terrible deal and tried to talk him out of it....but Eric insisted.
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Originally posted by Steve
Who's a drug dealer?
Edbert is. :D
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A friend of mine...
Gambling problem? Or what's his deal?
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Originally posted by Nash
Gambling problem? Or what's his deal?
He had crap credit and wanted to get the equity out of his house, and put it into his business.
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Rgr.
I can't pretend to really know your guys' circumstance, but if he's one of yer buds then ya throw him a bone. Might not be what Ayn Rand or whoever would do... but she'd prolly be a really crap friend.
Just my 2 cents.
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You already threw him one bone, you bought out his house like he begged you to do.
Time for this guy to live with the results of his actions.
He has already displayed his attitude towards you and money. Remember the rent issue, the complaints about cost, was he your bestest buddy then?
This guy isnt family. He is a user. He takes advantage. If you give him money he has no right to, he will never learn responsibility and how life works.
Again, he would not have given you one dime if you had sold the house at a loss, in that case he would have been all about "hey, it was your house, you lost money, nothing to do with me". But, since your investment paid off he wants some of the money he has no right to.
Keep business as business. And with the money that you invested, it was business.
dago
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Originally Posted by Eric the ****ing Real Estate Baron
Gee, I'd sure like to get money out of the real estate market without risking my own capital
The best way to answer this question (I mean besides laughing in his face), is to consider whether Eric would be helping you get out from under the house if it lost value, or if he would have gladly given you the $150,000 market value, if it had gone that way.
-Sik
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How do you feel? If you hold yourself to high moral standards, give him a fair share, if you don't, keep it.
It's kinda like complaining about scalpers and then having a twenty dollar game ticket you can sell for six hundred. That all mighty dollar has a strange way of making us see things a little different.
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If you hold yourself to high moral standards, give him a fair share
Well this is the question really. You haven't answered it, in your opinion. Is he morally entitled to $$$? What is a fair share?
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It so totally depends on what kind of friend he is.
If he's an aquaintence that you've been hanging out with for a while, that's one thing.
If he's one of those friends that has been a friend seemingly forever, and you always kinda pictured all yourselves winding up as old farts on some park bench ******ing about whatever, that's another thing.
Everyone screws up. It's usually precicely then that your definition of "friend" comes into focus.
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Btw, and just in case he is one of those true friends... then here's what to do:
Ask him what's fair.
Any amount he says, pay it - on condition that no more will be discussed about the episode ever again.
Attach no more conditions to it.
Give it without any reluctance, smile when you hand it over, and then go out for a beer.
If you have any misgivings about it when you get home, resolve that very night to forgive him.
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Originally posted by Lizking
Eric's penchant for losing all his money at the casino and the fact that he was in a cash buisness that could land him in jail at any time
That narrows it down some.
Pretty much exactly what it sounded like to me, too.
Maybe I've just known way too many drug dealers ~shrug~
culero (lives where lotsa smugglers do)
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He made a rotten deal and now he's pouting. Nothing personal, but why would you want a loser like that as a friend? If it were me I'd buy something flashy like a Rolex and wave it under his nose everyday until he went away.
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Originally posted by Nash
Btw, and just in case he is one of those true friends... then here's what to do:
Ask him what's fair.
Any amount he says, pay it - on condition that no more will be discussed about the episode ever again.
Attach no more conditions to it.
Give it without any reluctance, smile when you hand it over, and then go out for a beer.
If you have any misgivings about it when you get home, resolve that very night to forgive him.
i concur.
a kickback for a friend is worth more than a few measly bucks considering your profit.
so what if he is a slack deadbeat miscreate about it.
fact is, an open sore anywhere can breed problems later on.
i'd give him half.
and the other half if he never gambles again.
payable in ten years.
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Cocaine is a rugged drug.
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Originally posted by Steve
Well this is the question really. You haven't answered it, in your opinion. Is he morally entitled to $$$? What is a fair share?
Look Steve, let's be honest. Deep in your mind you feel it's the right thing to do to give him some money. You told him he was making a mistake and he shouldn't do it because you felt it was the right thing to do and you didn't want to see him lose money. When you made the deal I am sure you said in your mind that if this situation came to pass, you would give him a share of the money. It's what any good hearted person would do.
Now everything has come full circle and you are faced with a decision. What is making this decision difficult is that it represents everything you believe in. This isn't about what he is morally entitled to or how he is acting Steve, and it isn't about what anyone here on the BB would do. What this is about is what you believe in. There is no right or wrong Steve, you may need the money and feel you are entitled to it, that's fine, there is nothing wrong with that.
It is a difficult decision because you have a conscience Steve. Do what you feel you gotta do.
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a kickback for a friend is worth more than a few measly bucks considering your profit.
Eric is asking for 10 thousand dollars. To me, that is not measly... no offense.
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Been there done that.
Give him the 10 k and be done with it. Im surprised that is all he wants.
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It so totally depends on what kind of friend he is.
You're right, and so is Six in some ways. Ron will tell you Eric is the kind of friend that is constantly asking me to work on his cars, borrow my truck and return it w/ the same amount of gas or less when he took it, etc. I want to be a good friend but too often he starts his conversations with me as: "I need you to do me a favor....."
He's the type of friend that has borrowed money, paid it back late then claims he always pays his debts on time. He told me at the onset something like" Cmon Steve, you know I'll never be late on rent, then he was late all but once. The type of friend, who has, after having his cars fixed by me for the last four years has had this converstaion w/ me:
Eric: What ya doin?
Steve: Fixing the alternator on Stacy's Saturn, what are you doing?
Eric: Nothin, I'm bored, call me when you're done.
In my mind, a good friend would have rushed over to help at the chance of retruning the many many favors I've done him.
It is a difficult decision because you have a conscience Steve
True. and I was hoping that it would be made clear to me that Eric is not entitled to any money. I asked Eric once that if Ron and I lost money, would he pay for some of our losses. He said,
"Huh, what are you talking about?"
Edit: I'm not trying to argue w/ anyone. I really appreciate everyone's input/advice.
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Well.... then ta hell with him.
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Originally posted by Sixpence
How do you feel? If you hold yourself to high moral standards, give him a fair share, if you don't, keep it.
Moraly, there is nothing owed to this manipulating loser. The agreement was upheld, there was no promise of sharing the potential gains or losses.
Eric is no friend. Read the account again.
I have friends that I will help with any situation if they ask me.
I have 'friends' that I would never give monetary support to unless it was verifiable financial distress with their family. And then with the stipulation that they don't pay me back so I don't have to deal with the stress of collecting.
I think Eric might fall in the latter category.
Eric doesn't deserve, from what we've been told, any consideration in the profit from the sale of the property.
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Originally posted by rpm
why would you want a loser like that as a friend?
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Originally posted by Steve
You're right, and so is Six in some ways. Ron will tell you Eric is the kind of friend that is constantly asking me to work on his cars, borrow my truck and return it w/ the same amount of gas or less when he took it, etc. I want to be a good friend but too often he starts his conversations with me as: "I need you to do me a favor....."
He's the type of friend that has borrowed money, paid it back late then claims he always pays his debts on time. He told me at the onset something like" Cmon Steve, you know I'll never be late on rent, then he was late all but once. The type of friend, who has, after having his cars fixed by me for the last four years has had this converstaion w/ me:
Eric: What ya doin?
Steve: Fixing the alternator on Stacy's Saturn, what are you doing?
Eric: Nothin, I'm bored, call me when you're done.
In my mind, a good friend would have rushed over to help at the chance of retruning the many many favors I've done him.
True. and I was hoping that it would be made clear to me that Eric is not entitled to any money. I asked Eric once that if Ron and I lost money, would he pay for some of our losses. He said,
"Huh, what are you talking about?"
you pretty much summed it up yourself.
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Silat, you have my address... I expect the 10k check on my doorstep, no later than Thurs.
And that's not all I want, send your most available daughter as well. :)
Originally posted by Silat
Give him the 10 k and be done with it. Im surprised that is all he wants.
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Even if he were my best friend i wont give him any money.
Hes just little whinning spitboy.
You have no obligation according to writen agreement.
He should be gracefull for your help.
If he want his 10k he could only sincerely apply you.
Just forget that little moron and watch your back ;)
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This board seems to inhabited by more financial suckers than I would have imagined.
"Moral"? "Morally"?
This isn't a moral issue. A moral issue would be if Steve and his partner bought the house, and Steve made a deal with someone to buy it for under market value and Steve got an unreported (and untaxed) payment under the table, and didnt split that with his partner. That would be a moral issue, not splitting the cash with his partner.
Not sharing the profit on his investment, where "Eric" did not share in the risk of lose, did not invest money, and only was a problem tenant is the right thing to do, and morality plays no part.
The real question is does Steve have the smarts (I think so) and the spine to stand up for what is really right, and not allow himself to be browbeaten into paying Eric money he has no right to just because he is whining.
Hell, I will whine for money to if you send me a 10k check.
That money invested now will make a nice start on a college fund. You could take it to Kissimmee FL and fly a P51. Go to a strip club and make some dancers week. Buy a pistol or rifle you think would be fun to have. Get a motorcycle. Down payment on a Porsche. Buy new furniture or a fence.
Do anything with it, but do not give it away to somebody who will be guaranteed to piss it away at a casino. He wont be grateful more than 5 minutes, and as soon as it is gone, he will decide he really should have a third of the total profit. Where do you think it would stop with this user?
Keep it, it is your money morally, legally and permanently. I suspect Eric wont be in your life that long anyway, friends like that have a way of moving on.
dago
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Hmmm... You don't owe him anything. Pick a decision you can live with.
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I'm just sorry for the poor bastard that has nuke and steve as friends much less financial advisors.
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When I suggest you should give him nothing but scorn, I should point out that I have no moral standards and am a total sweetheartbag.
-Sik
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Come on Steve lets be honest here, you know you owe him a huge punch to the back of his head.
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Congrats on scamming your neighbor out of his home.
http://www.mtgprofessor.com/A%20-%20Scams/the_cash-out_refinance_scam.htm (http://www.mtgprofessor.com/A%20-%20Scams/the_cash-out_refinance_scam.htm)
The details of your plan maybe differ slightly, but the end result is pretty much the same.
Everybody here who thinks the neighbor/friend deserves nada shouldn't have to wonder why we live in such a cheesehouse of a country.
My opinion is your friend should talk to local law enforcement and consult an attorney what you've done may not be completely legal.
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It's natural for anyone to have regrets and that is exactly what he's going through... 'what if...'!
However, you don't owe him anything. You took the risk by buying the property and helping him. As someone else mentioned, if the house made a loss and he didn't buy it back from you then you'd have made a loss.
He agreed to continue renting. He hasn't. He agreed to buy the house back off you. He hasn't. He asked for your help and he got it.
I know you're probably trying to ease your conscience but there really isn't any need to; you've been a good friend and it's him whose being unreasonable.
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well it looks like u guys became a bank basically ... they guy wiggled out of his house ... and got some cash out of it .. so he's not losing ...
U guys did the right thing .. and you dont owe him a dime ... its his fault for losing out on any profit from his house by selling it too soon .
If ya really feel you need to share the wealth ... donate to the childrens orthopedic ,,, ect .
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Originally posted by oboe
Congrats on scamming your neighbor out of his home.
http://www.mtgprofessor.com/A%20-%20Scams/the_cash-out_refinance_scam.htm (http://www.mtgprofessor.com/A%20-%20Scams/the_cash-out_refinance_scam.htm)
The details of your plan maybe differ slightly, but the end result is pretty much the same.
Everybody here who thinks the neighbor/friend deserves nada shouldn't have to wonder why we live in such a cheesehouse of a country.
My opinion is your friend should talk to local law enforcement and consult an attorney what you've done may not be completely legal.
This must be a troll, nobody can be that nuts.
His link is about home equity loans. Not relevant to buying his house from him. Not the same situation. Not even close.
oboe misses all the points that make the differance.
It was a house purchase, not a home equity loan.
He came to you, you didnt solict him.
He had the opportunity to buy back the house, he didnt.
He had the opportunity to pay rent and stay in the house until he could or would buy it back, he failed in that.
Why would you subsidize his poor life choices? Why would you not have a right to a profit on your investment?
Why would someone who virtually insisted you buy his house, then failed you in your subsequent agreements have a "right" to any of the profit you made on the later sale you were forced into when he took no risk and would not have shared in the losses if they had occured?
This sounds like a lesson from Donald Trumps "The Apprentice".
Oboe, You're Fired
:rofl
dago
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Originally posted by oboe
My opinion is your friend should talk to local law enforcement and consult an attorney what you've done may not be completely legal.
I don't see anywhere that they'd be required to include him in the dividends from the sale of the house. He had the option to purchase it back & didn't. How are you scamming somebody if it was their idea in the first place, and things just happen to work out good for you? That guy made his choice, he needs to live with it.
nice troll. :aok
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Come on Steve lets be honest here, you know you owe him a huge punch to the back of his head.
Well, tell me how I can find Schaden and I'll give it to him. Oh, did you mean Eric?
:lol
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Originally posted by Schaden
I'm just sorry for the poor bastard that has nuke and steve as friends much less financial advisors.
Lucky for me, Eric is not a friend....only met him twice as we were buying his house.
Even then, I will probably give him some cash if we sell the house for the full price.
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Originally posted by oboe
Congrats on scamming your neighbor out of his home.
http://www.mtgprofessor.com/A%20-%20Scams/the_cash-out_refinance_scam.htm (http://www.mtgprofessor.com/A%20-%20Scams/the_cash-out_refinance_scam.htm)
The details of your plan maybe differ slightly, but the end result is pretty much the same.
Everybody here who thinks the neighbor/friend deserves nada shouldn't have to wonder why we live in such a cheesehouse of a country.
My opinion is your friend should talk to local law enforcement and consult an attorney what you've done may not be completely legal.
I don't see how buying the guys house from him after he begged us to do so is a scam. I remember him calling Steve 5 times a day as I was qualifying for the loan, at one point even accusing me of not really trying to get qualified.
I took a huge risk in this deal, as the house is in my name and I didn't even know Eric.
Eric, having never been on time with his rent, has constantly complained about his rent ( which he agreed too) and then decided to move out after only 6 months, leaving Steve and I with a house payment. If we don't sell the house quickly, I'm pretty screwed.
It just so happens that after Eric decided to move and break his agreement, Steve and I find out that the house skyrocketed in value. Too bad for Eric. He made all the decisions.
Even though I barely know the guy, I offered to pay him some money if we are able to make close to what we are asking on the house. That's just me, I don't speak for Steve on that matter.
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Always a bad idea to do buisness with friends or family.
But when you do. You gotta treat it like buisness.
Way I see it the guy screwed himself and Nuke and Steve dont owe him owe anything. And if they do give him anything it is out of the goodness of their own hearts.
If its a signed lease he may be the one actually oweing.
I know in some places if you break a lease early you can be held liable for the remainder of that lease.
Sell the house take the profit and either bank it,pay off some of your own bills, or buy yourself something with it.
The guy screwed himself in more ways then one.
Now he gets to pay the price for his own mistakes.
Judgement in favor of Nuke and Steve:)
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Your call Steve, but in no case shopuld you give him more than half he thinks he may be owed considering all the BS on his part. I would be tempted to give it simply to smooth things over, but that would depend on his attitude and I have no way to gauge that from this board.
This seems to be Nuke's opinion too.
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Originally posted by NUKE
snip
Even though I barely know the guy, I offered to pay him some money if we are able to make close to what we are asking on the house. That's just me, I don't speak for Steve on that matter.
Be very careful here. I'd consult an attorney before doing anything.
I commend you for seeming to value being fair and compassionate in this, but if you offer to pay him anything without obtaining an airtight waiver of liability in return you may be inviting trouble.
culero
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I'm playing devil's advocate here - we aren't hearing the neighbor's side of the story. The undisputed facts are that the neighbor is losing his house, and $10,000 of the $35,000 equity he had built up in it - and you and Steve can stand to profit the $10K plus the what, more than $100,000K of appreciated value in 6 months? If it goes to court, it'll be your word against his on who tried to convince who of the plan - but the fact is the neighbor is losing big $$ while you guys are profiting big. I think those are pretty much the earmarks of a equity cashout/rent back scam whether you intended to scam him or not.
That seems very suspicious to me.
What would you do if you were asked to put the neighbor's interest entirely ahead of your own? What would you lose? What would it cost you?
btw, I'm not sure that scam is illegal, but state laws may vary.
I do hope the poor guy gets a lawyer. If he's getting screwed he might as well make sure it's legal.
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Never had any drug dealers as friends, I take it, Oboe.
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Send me all the profit.
I will decide who gets what and that way none of you will blame each other.
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Never had any drug dealers as friends, I take it, Oboe.
Eric is not a drug dealer, Liz.
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If it goes to court, it'll be your word against his
What would he sue for? We scammed him? Unfortunately, the entire scenario was Eric's idea.
Eric had a hand in dealing w/ all involved parties because he brow beat them over the phone to hurry up every time one of them got involved. This includes the loan officer, the appraiser, and the title company. All of these parties, were aware that the deal was of Eric's making so I'm not really sure how he could sue. Additionally, every real estate purchase in AZ has a 10 day rescind clause where either party can nix the deal for no reason. After that, the title is recorded and the transaction is final.*
*Per an attorney and a realtor.
but the fact is the neighbor is losing big $$
Eric did not lose big money. He was paid full market value for the home at the time we purchased it. In fact, he beat up the appraiser(verbally) to over-value his home by $2500.00 even though the comps in the area didn't support it.
I remember the 10k deal... after having to think about it for a while. When I first told him it was a stupid idea and that it was too risky for me since he was an addicted gambler( blackjack at $300.00 to $500.00 a hand), he persisted..... several times a day in calling me and asking me to buy the house. Finally, he offered the !0k to me as a way to ensure I wouldn't lose my shirt if he flaked on the mortgage. Ultimately half of the money went to Ron since I couldn't qualify at the time. After closing costs and impounds we both netted around $3700.00
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What other cash business leads to jail? Is he a pimp, a smuggler or a dealer? Maybe he is a thief or a hitman?
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Oh he probably won't sue. Though I'm sure if he got a lawyer, his story would be that the whole thing was all your idea, but as you say, the whole deal is probably legal and binding. I'm in over my head with the devil's advocate business; I apologize for suggesting you were out to scam him. I was out of line.
But still, if he had fallen victim to one of these scams, how would the result for him be any different? The only thing I can think of is that it would be the unethical real estate loan office holding the profits and not a trusted neighbor/friend.
btw, I just did a Google search on the nation's hottest real estate markets, and Las Vegas came up as the top market in the report, with an annual appreciation rate of 52.4%, which according to the report, is unheard of. Yet by your figures, Eric's house in Surprise, AZ appreciated at an annual rate of more than 150%.
Just another thing that looks awfully suspicious to me. How was the market valuation done on Eric's house when he sold it to you?
Report calls Las Vegas hottest real estate market it’s ever seen (http://www.rgj.com/news/stories/html/2004/08/16/78144.php)
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" To entice me, Eric offered 10k(or maybe I demanded, can't remember) up front to offset the risk of having a renter in a house I owned. "
pay him back the 10k minus one months rent, and a certain amount for breaking the contract. a owner is only entitled to one months rent up front, and a certain amount to cover damages, last i heard. everything else is just a dirty bribe
or not, i'm just making an bellybutton of myself.
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the housing market can be wierd sometimes ..
A friend of mine just bought a new place and while he was in the process of listing his old house 380k value at this time was told to wait a week for the house to close 1/2 block away ... well it just closed at 460k so his house shot up in value over night to 440k ... thats a nice hunk of change for waiting a week .
Just thought id throw that in ...
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so he already made 25k on the deal and he's crying?
He's got sour oats from making a bad decision.
I say find a renter and keep it for a year, then sell and make an extra 100k
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Originally posted by oboe
btw, I just did a Google search on the nation's hottest real estate markets, and Las Vegas came up as the top market in the report, with an annual appreciation rate of 52.4%, which according to the report, is unheard of. Yet by your figures, Eric's house in Surprise, AZ appreciated at an annual rate of more than 150%.
Just another thing that looks awfully suspicious to me. How was the market valuation done on Eric's house when he sold it to you?
The real estate market started going through the roof here around September of last year. The house was appraised at market value when we bought it for 187k. We havn't had it appraised again, but other houses on the same block have sold for 299k and 350k recently. Our house is in-between those inm size and upgrades.
The day we put a temp. for sale sign up in the lawn ( not even listed), we had two people look at the house. We have had four people in the next few days getting prequalified before they even look at it.
There are a backlog of people waiting to get houses built here. They can't build them fast enough.
Agents call me every few days telling me they have a list of people who would like to buy my other house.
The main reason Eric is pissed is that the house went up in value so fast, and he knows he shouldn't have sold it. If we had lost money on the value of the house, Eric would still have broken his lease and left us holding the bag, no problem or questions asked.
I'm inclined to give Eric a fair payment when we sell the house anyway, because I picture what I would feel like in his place.
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Originally posted by NUKE
The real estate market started going through the roof here around September of last year. The house was appraised at market value when we bought it for 187k. We havn't had it appraised again, but other houses on the same block have sold for 299k and 350k recently. Our house is in-between those inm size and upgrades.
The day we put a temp. for sale sign up in the lawn ( not even listed), we had two people look at the house. We have had four people in the next few days getting prequalified before they even look at it.
There are a backlog of people waiting to get houses built here. They can't build them fast enough.
Agents call me every few days telling me they have a list of people who would like to buy my other house.
The main reason Eric is pissed is that the house went up in value so fast, and he knows he shouldn't have sold it. If we had lost money on the value of the house, Eric would still have broken his lease and left us holding the bag, no problem or questions asked.
I'm inclined to give Eric a fair payment when we sell the house anyway, because I picture what I would feel like in his place.
Good for you Nuke. I'm not at all saying that you are obligated but that's genuinly nice of you.
Myself I could give a dam about Eric or some of the habbitat buyers mentioned earlier that got scammed. If they don't have the knowledge to know that you shouldnt do what they did they shouldnt be owning a house in the first place..
Eric to me sounds like a moron. A house is, for the most part, a long term investment. Real Estate can be volitile and he (and both Nuke and Steve) are lucky they made money.
Advantage of giving him money...
clearer concious
He can't ask you for anything ever again
Disadvantages of giving him money....
your out money your not legally required to give to him
He'll probably gamble it away from what it sounds like
you probably wont get rid of him
pissibly a guilty consious
just my .02 guys. I'd give him a little just to shut him up personally. It's just money, silence is pricless.
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Originally posted by NUKE
...I'm inclined to give Eric a fair payment when we sell the house anyway, because I picture what I would feel like in his place.
Maybe doing something like that for a guy who doesn't legally deserve anything is the mark between a good spirit and a greedy, selfish one. And you never know who might be watching.
Do you guys think the real estate bubble can continue for much longer? I mean wages are flat, health care costs are skyrocketing, fuel costs are going up (and thus the prices of all products and most services go up), and good paying manufacturing and service sector jobs are headed overseas.
How can a real estate market with 150%/yr appreciation be sustained?
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It will last as long as the handsomehunkes are willing to pay for it, not a day longer.
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I hate to think where I might stand, being not sharp enough to figure out what the handsomehunkes are going to do.
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Originally posted by oboe
How can a real estate market with 150%/yr appreciation be sustained?
have to agree with oboe, the speculaters are driving up the market, when they bail, some people are going to be hurt
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It is simple-buy a house to live in.
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have to agree with oboe, the speculaters are driving up the market, when they bail, some people are going to be hurt
The main reaosn for the sudden and hardly believable spike is because many investors are flooding the market. most of them come from Vegas and California. as it happens, I'm now an investor too, but not by design. I intend to take my profits and buy another house or three now that my credit is in order.
another tidbit for what it's worth: I told Eric if he stayed in the house as agreed and after 2 years he still couldn't qaulify, he could pick out a new house, I'd buy it, and we'd split the equity 50-50 when he sold it or he could buy it from me one day for half of the appreciation once he did qualify. Unfortunately, this guy has NO sense of long term.
Liz, Eric runs an outcall escort service.
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No worries.
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How was the market valuation done on Eric's house when he sold it to you?
Something like 10 comps in the area, plus had an appraiser come in. I know Eric got fair market value, I live 2 doors down from him(in the exact same model)and did a refi just a couple of months before his and was appraised about the same as his.(mine has more upgrades yet came in a smidge lower)
FWIW, with the upgrades on my house(again same model as Eric's) my house is worth 340K. I know this because I am adding a pool and going to refi again.*
* Edit I didn't mean this to sound like pride. I am trying to demonstrate that the market has indeed gone mad. We paid $165,000.00 in 2001 and the house has more than doubled since then.
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How can a real estate market with 150%/yr appreciation be sustained?
Well this is a good question. Eventually houses will become so expensive that there won't be any buyers who can afford them.
This coupled w/ rising interest rates could burst the bubble. I certainly, being anything but an expert, can't see how the market can continue.
Builders are trying drastic measures to prevent investors from buying new builds. Demand is so high for new homes that when a lot is opened for a newbuild/sale, 20 people may show up and try to buy it. They hold a lottery!
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I just gota add this Nuke...
What Would Jesus Do???
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Originally posted by WMLute
I just gota add this Nuke...
What Would Jesus Do???
Why don't you tell me? I'm just ignorant, remember? I already said I'm going to be fair. What would YOU do?
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he wasnt a sniper was he ?
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I already said I'm going to be fair.
what's fair? To me it would be completely fair if he got nothing. This was his deal, he took no risk on our investment and is therefore entitled to nothing.
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Originally posted by Steve
what's fair? To me it would be completely fair if he got nothing. This was his deal, he took no risk on our investment and is therefore entitled to nothing.
I know Steve.
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Originally posted by Steve
what's fair? To me it would be completely fair if he got nothing. This was his deal, he took no risk on our investment and is therefore entitled to nothing.
Wasn't the original 10k incintive kinda like a security deposit paid when renting a new place? Give'im back the $7400 (3700*2), and tell the guy to think of the other 2600 as monies kept for damages to the property and the penalty for breaking the lease early. From what little ya'll have said, ya'll have already bent over backwards for the guy.
It seems to me that this might be the only "moral" obligation out of the whole thing, particularly if you demanded it.
Originally posted by Steve
To entice me, Eric offered 10k(or maybe I demanded, can't remember) up front to offset the risk of having a renter in a house I owned.
Anything over that is out of the goodness of your hearts and up to ya'll. Good point about his not having a part in the risk ya'll took.
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Originally posted by NUKE
Why don't you tell me? I'm just ignorant, remember? I already said I'm going to be fair. What would YOU do?
awww come on. it was funny.
I already said what I would do. If said person was a good friend, I would give him the money. If he wasn't, I would not give them a dime. Frendship is invaluable. BUT if this was straight business, then heck w/ the guy.