Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Technical Support => Topic started by: StarOfAfrica2 on May 10, 2005, 03:03:18 AM
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Ok, had two new possibilities to upgrade from the 61.76/61.77 drivers for those of us with older Nvidia stuff. I tested the 66.93 Omegas and the newest Nvidia release 71.89. I had previously tried the 66.93 Nvidia drivers, and the zer0point modded drivers, and found them incompatible with my FX 5900XT. I was more hopeful of Omega.
Omega usually includes in his "tweaks" a larger compatibility list than the standard Nvidia driver of the same version. And indeed, on his site he says he made the driver compatible with more cards, although he doesnt say which. Nvidia's latest release CLAIMS compatibility with ALL previous products, all the way back to the TNT and the old Rage and Rage Pro stuff. One member of the BBS here claimed it worked ok on his FX card, so I decided to test them out.
I first made sure my MOBO drivers were up to date, then I went through the standard uninstall/reinstall process for the video drivers, tested everything in Direct X, and then logged in offline. One complaint had been flames and smoke from burning planes causing severe drops in fps. So I took off in a FW 190A5 with the 4x20mm and the 2x7.9mm (lots of ammo, easy to control, fairly fast, could get flames and smoke with just a few rounds). I pulled up behind the first B24, and watched it blow up. Frame rates were good, zoom or not didnt seem to matter. I was running mid 70s and high 60s over the base without a plane in my forward view, and it didnt really drop until I got in under d600. Even then it was negligible. Until the explosion. Fps dropped to mid 30s until I was past the fireball. Pulled up behind the next B24, and set one of the starboard engines afire. Fps dropped into the 50s and 40s. Went by and pulled up behind the FW. Set it on fire, then circled far enough to get both in my view. Even at 2.5k out (how far I had to get to see both at once), the fps hit was noticeable. If you can see the flames, it hits your fps. I never noticed this with the old drivers, but then I didnt pay attention before either. I also noticed that for some reason the P38 causes a fps drop when it is in view, even at 3k away? Strange. Maybe an issue with the new skin forms? I didnt pay attention when the FW first came into view, only after it was flaming. I DID notice after trying it online that the FW forward view had 10fps lower than the side views, I'm assuming because of the cockpit guages. Went online and tried flying around, fps were lower than offline but that could just be the map. Clouds seemed to help alot with fps (maybe the tree haters have something with these newer drivers?), and although the trees did cause a small fps hit in the 61.xx drivers, I never noticed this much fluctuation from the terrain. Still, all fps were liveable, low 40s at takeoff, rising into the 50s at 5k, and up into the 60s and 70s by 13k where I levelled out. Sought out a furball, most of the fight with 4-8 planes in forward view, flames, smoke, tracers, etc. I was staying above 35fps. Only right down on the deck, weaving through trees and d200 off an enemy plane did I drop below 30 at all, to 29fps.
Result? Omega 66.93 passed, no lockups, no CTD, not even so much as a stutter. And just to note, this was on the QUALITY setting, the only change I made to Omega's tweaks was to turn on Vsync so I'd get realistic frame rates to report. Even he says his Performance drivers will give better fps.
Uninstalled the Omegas and installed the newest drivers directly off the Nvidia website. Did everything exactly the same as with the Omegas. Had a few artifact issues, but I think I overheated the card. I'm going to have to try again. Apparently the default on these drivers does not have the fan on all the time on the card, and the temp probe is set too high. I reset it to make the fan run all the time, but its getting late. I'll retest the new Nvidia drivers tomorrow and follow up on the results. Looked promising up to that point though.
Tested the theory regarding the skins issue, cant get it to repeat now. Either I was imagining things, or I kept getting some funky trees that dropped my fps every time the P38 was in my view. Go figure. Flying with lots of clouds around to mask the ground DID still provide a fps boost.
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BTW, here's my system specs and the ingame settings I was using.
Athlon XP 2600+
running at 2.3Ghz
1GB Corsair PC3200 RAM
FX 5900XT 128MB
Windows XP SP2
AA and AF set to App Control, all settings left "as is" by install except turned Vsync on and changed temp and fan settings to keep things cooler.
1024x768 res. at 85hz refresh.
Ingame settings
512 Max Texture size
All sliders at approximately 1/2.
Preload textures and skins.
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Ok. First warning if you have an FX 5xxx series card, and want to use the newest drivers. Beware of your temps, or download the coolbits/NvTweak tool so you can adjust your temp settings manually. 71.89 WQHL driver does NOT set temp threshold right for the older cards, and the fan doesnt come on soon enough. Second warning, if you are upgrading from a 6x.xx series driver MAKE SURE YOU UNINSTALL AND DELETE ALL REFERENCES TOO THE OLD DRIVERS. I even recommend running a registry cleaner to remove anything Nvidia before proceeding with the install. I ended up with 3 corrupt installs before doing the deep clean and registry cleaning, and it finally took. That said, time for the tests.
Repeated all previous tests. Seems to fluctuate less than the Omega 66.93 drivers (Quality drivers). Still takes a hit from flames and smoke, but its bearable. Ran mid 70s to high 60s for most of the offline test, dropped into the low 50s to mid 40s during flames and smoke. Distance doesn't seem to matter so much, but finishing off the burning plane and ending the pyrotechnics makes for a sudden jump back up in the fps. Never saw anything less than 42 offline.
Went online, was hovering in low 40s at base. Flames from the ground do not seem to be the same at all as flames and smoke from burning planes, regarding the performance hits. Stayed in the FW 190A-5 to keep things the same. Low over base in furball, still dropped into the mid 30s. Never got below 30.
Pushing my AA back up to 2x where I normally have it did drop me down to a low of 26 fps in a furball on the deck over a base, but I liked the looks better so I'll live with it. Just 3k is enough alt to push my fps back up to the 40s even in a furball.
After an hour of online play, no lockups, no crashes, no CTD with the newest driver straight from Nvidia's website. Pass. As I said though, if you are running a 5xxx card download the coolbits tweak and check your temp and fan settings.
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Bottom line is that both the Omega 66.93 drivers and the Nvidia WQHL 71.89 driver work for the new cards AND the old cards just fine. And its about time. Nvidia did include a little color optimizer for people with flat screens in the new driver. I sent them an email about the temperature issue with my card and the new driver, but didnt hear anything back yet.
While my tests with the Omega had alot of fluctuation in the fps, none were bad. And i was using the Quality drivers. I'm thinking that a newer computer with better hardware could keep those fps more steady with this driver. On an older rig like mine I'd suggest installing the Performance drivers. Nvidia's "official" new driver works just fine as well, but it becomes necessary to add the coolbits tweak for temp control on the older cards like mine. Not a biggie, but I'd hate for someone to buy one of these 5xxx cards and install the updated drivers, only to fry their card.
Good luck!
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Good stuff Star. Thanks a lot. I figure the lockups most people are having are due heat. The FX5xxx cards run very hot as it is.
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Mine usually runs in the mid 40s (Celcius), but when I installed the new drivers it zoomed up to around 75C. I dont know how far back the temp glitch goes, and it may only be with the 5900 for all I know. But I figure better safe than sorry. Adding Coolbits gave me back control of the temp settings and I'm running around 50C now under load. The nice thing about the Omegas is they include those tweaks already.
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When I first installed my 5900 Ultra the temps stayed ~45. After some dirver upgrades it now runs in the high 50s. Everything runs fine, but I'd love to have it a bit cooler. Do you know if the fan information for the card is held in the registry? If so, should I be able to adjust those properties to get better cooling effeciency? Or, is this just the old heat up problem skuzzy talked about before. I went to older Omega drivers (61.77) after uninstalling the newer drivers and running Driver Cleaner, but have seen no real change in the heat issue. I was thinking of formating and reinstalling, but Skuzzy indicated he didn't think that would help.
Any thoughts on this?
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I'd try uninstalling all the drivers, run the registry cleaner utility, run the driver cleaner utility, do whatever you feel you have to do to clean out the driver settings installed by those other drivers. Then reinstall your current drivers and see if you notice a drop in temps. Yes, the temps are govorned by registry info, but its very hard to clean out everything once you install something in Windows. Installing Coolbits/NvTweak allows you (in most cases) to keep the fan going non-stop, regardless of temp settings, so that helps. You can also change the temp threshold. Worth a shot.
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nice write up star, hope alot of nvidia guys read this , could save skuzzy some headaches .
38
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My FX5200 doesn't even have a fan. Almost dropped it when I took it out the other day because it was so warm. :rolleyes:
Oh well, just waiting on my FX6800... :D
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OOZ I also have a 5200 and my temp probes don't reflect the rise in temp of the vid card so my 2 case fans and PS fan don't speed up on their own. After an hour of play it started to look like I was in ground vis all the time and a few mins later CDT. I use speedfan to run them wide open and it still gets a little flat looking but liveable after 3 hrs or so and no CDT. (Does this take power away from FSB and/or prossesor?) I know I'll have to clean it out more often now- sure it sucks up more dust this way. The headphones help muffle that 262 sound comming from under the my desk.:D
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I didn't notice the "Set Fans 100% on closing" option was checked the first time I used it. Scared the crap outta me...
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Well, after using the 71.89 drivers for most of the month, they have shown some less than stable results in the long term. For the first couple of weeks everything was fine, but I really hadnt been online as much the first part of the month as I had in the past. As May has progressed, I have had more time to get online, and the longer I spend in Aces High, the more problems I have encountered. Started with freezes, some that would last as long as 15-20 seconds before releasing my FE and giving me control again. Sometimes, I would get the dreaded "Aces High has encountered a problem and must shut down" thing. Every time that happened, I lost my Aces High video config and it would redetect my video card after rebooting and restarting the game. To rule out the drivers, I started examining the other areas of my system (note that before this I was using the 61.77 Omega drivers and never had freeze or CTD problems).
I did find some Direct X files that seemed to have changed, so I reinstalled DX 9.0C. For a couple of days, no problems so I thought perhaps that had solved it. But no, the problems resumed.
Double checked my temps, and they were a tad high. CPU temp ingame was reaching 52C. It's not supposed to do anything until 55C, but I figured better safe than sorry. I took the video card out, cleaned it off (even though it never runs over 44C with the Coolbits tweak in place), took the fan and heatsink off the CPU. Found some dust, and cleaned it out. Found a couple of minorly bent fins on the heatsink, fixed that, cleaned off the old thermal paste and put a fresh drop of Arctic Silver on, reinstalled heatsink and fan, reinstalled video card. I'm topping out about 48C now. Still having the same problems. So today I uninstalled the 71.89 drivers. Cleaned the registry, deleted any folders leftover from the previous install, then installed the 61.77 drivers again. Not a hitch. No freezes, no nothing, so I think I can put the blame on the drivers.
So I previously passed the 71.89 drivers for the older FX series cards. I take that back. They dont work. I have installed the 66.93 Omegas now, as I had passed those previously also. I'm going to leave them on for awhile and see if they give me any long term problems. Keeping my fingers crossed.
So that means the 61.77 drivers are STILL the only ones that are proven stable long term. I'll let you konw after 3 weeks how these 66.93 Omegas hold up.
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Well, I've been running the 66.93 Omega drivers and so far this tour I havent had any problems except those related to the internet. All the freezes and CTDs I experienced with the 71.89 Nvidia WHQL drivers dissapeared. Gameplay has been smooth, although I really dont see any improvements over the 61.77 drivers. I also do not recommend the 66.93 Nvidia WHQL drivers, they caused CTDs quite often for me.
So to wrap up my tests, Omega is the way to go for Nvidia cards. Something in the official versions beyond 61.77 causes CTDs and screen freezes. 61.77 is safe for (as far as I know) all older cards, whether the official Nvidia version or the Omega version. This driver was tested on the FX 5900XT, FX 5950U, FX 5700, MX 4000, and the MX 440. 66.93, ONLY the Omega version is safe for older cards. The official Nvidia version isnt compatible. Neither is the newer 71.89 version.
61.77 WHQL - Passed
61.77 Omega - Passed
66.93 WHQL - Failed
66.93 Omega - Passed
71.89 WHQL - Failed
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I have Gainward FX5900XT Golden Sample, GPU core running at 480MHz and memory at 850MHz.
Having WHQL 66.93 since release date with no isssues (very stable, no heat issues, neither any CTDs, freezing, etc in AH).
Have an old MX440 on one machine and last "stable" driver was 61.77, as SOA2 mentioned.
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It may break down to brand specifics as far as I know. The brands I used in my testing varied from PNY to Chaintech. I could only use what I had access to. I also have an old Orchid 32MB Geforce2 card, but I didnt see the point in testing it. I know the 5900XT I am using now (softmodded to a 5900U), the memory wont go faster than 775 (I run it at 750). I have the GPU set at 450 and it runs fine there. I've never really tested it to see how far it would go. Obviously, at least the memory modules in yours are of better quality. It could be something about your card accepts the newer drivers where mine wont. I think the collection I have is pretty representative of whats being used by people here with Nvidia stuff, although as your post points out there are always going to be exceptions to the rule.
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nice write up SA .
theres still alot of 5200's here though to . and id suggest doing stock clockings also . alot of guys wont try to push there cycles up .. (its hard to blame them at the $$$ of cards these days)
a big problem with temps on the gpu is there isnt a good thermal paste on them if any at all .. alot of them are stuck on w/ that stupid tape also. just another thing to think about befor you over clock a video card.
(Ive got a brand new 9200 here and its hs is on w/ tape , and it doesnt even have a fan . hell my old gf 2's were set up better)
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Yeah, I really wanted to do more cards, but I had to stick with what I either had on hand, or I could borrow locally. For some reason, PNY seems to be the brand most stores carry here, so thats what folks end up with. The online selections are better, but its really hard to shop by brand online and find a good representation of an entire lineup. So that's reflected in my tests unfortunately.
Also, only the card I'm using now is OC'd. For a good representation during testing, I reset the card to default (390 on the GPU and 700 on the memory). I also have to say that the FX 5700 seemed to have problems from time to time, although nothing I could track down. I'd get micro-freezes or "stutters" in the video, artifacts would show up and then dissapear, video would "tear" sometimes and then fix itself........... The fan worked, I checked the thermal paste on the GPU heatsink, and temps SEEMED to stay in normal range (would get into mid 40s under load). I did notice that Tom's Hardware refused to put the 5700 in some of it's benchmarks because they said it was an OEM product and the variations in construction made it impossible to get consistent numbers? Maybe I shouldnt even include it as "tested".
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yea the 5700's are a pain .. thats why i dont recommend them .
Ive been ah2 testing all the cards ive been getting my paws on too .
gf 4 440, 4600,5200,5600 5900.
Ati's 9200,9500,9550 9600's 9800's
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Thanks for the info, guys. Scary stuff, way beyond my knowledge or tolerance thresholds. Bottom line for me is not to mess with anything that ain't seriously broken.
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Heh, thats actually good advice for all of us. I just cant stand not to "tweak" things. I did it with my cars when I was a teenager. I do it with computers and guns now.
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I just got installed 6800GT (Elsa Gladiac) with 71.89. I had to turn off Anisotropic Filtering off, otherwise in AH during the blackout I don't get the circle but full screen blackout.
Do you SOA2 or Roscoroo know which driver ver. works best with 6800 series and AH?
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Anything should be fine with the newer cards. If you are having problems with the newest one, try the 66.93 Omega drivers.
As for the problem with AF, I have always had a problem running it in Aces High, while other folks dont. I have no idea why, and neither did Skuzzy. I'd say its going to vary from system to system. But since you really wont make much use of AF in the game anyway, I wouldnt count that as a loss.
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mu AF is on application preferance so i believe its in the off mode for ah .
71.89 should be ok as long as you dont get stuttering or any other anonomilies.
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Thanks for the info Star. It sounds exactly like what I have been experiencing lately. I have:
AMD Sempron 3000+ running at normal rates
512K Mushkin PC3200 (single stick)
Gigabyte GA-7N400Pro2 board w/nvidia2 chipset
BFG Geforce FX5700 Ultra video card.
I recently switched to the above processor after I couldn't get my computer to turn on with the AMD 2800+ CPU installed. I had upgraded the video drivers about 6 months ago to the 71.89 drivers from the 61.77 drivers. I didn't notice any problems with either driver until I started running the new Sempron 3000+ CPU. Now I get freezes just like you describe Star, for about 15-30 seconds. Sometimes they drop Host too. I will revert back to the 61.77 drivers and hope that makes things better.
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Tracer alot of mainboards still need a bios flashed/updated to run a sempron correctly .. (something to check on if you havent already)
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That was the first thing I tried Roscoroo. It is detected correctly by Bios now as Sempron 3000+.
I changed drivers, but will check stability tonight when I have time. I am trying to understand why the video drivers might fix this problem when the problem seems to be related more directly to the CPU. What is it about the driver instructions that will cause conflicts with a different CPU?
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Tracer if you notice at the beginning of the thread, I didnt have problems with the 71.89 drivers at first either. They worked great. But the more I played, the more I noticed problems. The longer I was online, the more likely it was that I would start freezing up and getting CTDs. I think it has to do with the temp. settings in the default Nvidia drivers. If a card is at all liable to run hot, it will with those new drivers. The Omegas dont because they come with the coolbits hack built in, and whatever it is he does to make things more compatible. I cant run the stock Nvidia 66.93 drivers either, but I'm running the Omega version of those drivers now and nary a problem.
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Two days now on the old 61.XX drivers and not a single lock up. I am happy now. Maybe I will try the Omega drivers when I get around to it, but you know the saying, if it ain't broke...
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where can I find these omega drivers star?
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http://www.omegadrivers.net
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:) Hello Star, great job testing different display drivers, I've a Nvidia GeForce FX5200 in my computer & have been playing AH2
a cple hrs @ day, 5das a wk. My display driver is Nvidia Driver 76.50 for approx. the last 3 mos.
I've had NO troubles whatsoever, no stutters, no lines, no discos.
My settings are on 'Performance'
AA & AF set to Application Cntrl
My fps is betwix 40-65, sometimes higher, & NO overheating
Great cinematic graphics & power :aok
Cheers,
Happy1 :D
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Would you mind giving me some info on the driver? Where it came from, etc? Because Nvidia's current driver release is the 71.89. That would mean they havent released anything as high as 76.xx yet. If thats a beta driver, thats cool too, and it gives us something to look forward to. I'd be interested in testing it with some of the cards I have access to. If you could give me a link, or provide me with a release date and source I would greatly appreciate it.
Thanks!
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Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
Would you mind giving me some info on the driver? Where it came from, etc? Because Nvidia's current driver release is the 71.89. That would mean they havent released anything as high as 76.xx yet. If thats a beta driver, thats cool too, and it gives us something to look forward to. I'd be interested in testing it with some of the cards I have access to. If you could give me a link, or provide me with a release date and source I would greatly appreciate it.
Thanks!
You can find almost all the current and beta drivers at http://www.guru3d.com.
They have some in the 77 series I believe also. There is a total of about 425 of the nvidia drivers there dating back to a lot of the older sets.
All the Best...
Jay
awDOC1
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Good Morning Star :) OK, I forgot to mention that it's a BETA card,
however, I've been using it since date of inception w/NO probs,
here's the info:
http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=1036
Good page to have as it lists compatibility issue w/other display
cards, therefore u can test ANY card/s to ur heart's contentment.
Enjoy :aok
Cheers,
Happy1 :D
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Cool, thanks for the links. I'll have to browse what they have when I get home today. :)
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Made a discovery last P.M. when I dove dwn over the ocean to chase a very low TBM skimming above the water, as I neared it the ocean chgd color to grey & had a mash over it :( it
was hard to see & jinx avoiding nme ships' fire.
I thereby chgd my Nvidia display card to XGwin2kxp77.13-HD, the graphics & everything else worked well, with the exception of Frame rate which fell by 15 points, ie...from 60+ fps in the 76.50
to 45 fps...I didn't care for that!
Tried the highly touted Forceware driver 76.44 which supposedly works better than 76.50, setup didn't work on my FX5200, a wasted effort, supports FX6xxxx cards!
Decided to follow Skuzzy's advice & chg back to Nvidia Omega
Driver 1.6177 or 61.77, everything works fine now, fps up to 60+.
Rather dubious I'm going to upgrade my display driver in the near
future, to quote the age-old adage "If it isn't broken why fix it?"
Cheers,
Happy1 :D