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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Raider179 on May 10, 2005, 07:06:03 PM

Title: Those Wacky L.A. Cops
Post by: Raider179 on May 10, 2005, 07:06:03 PM
LoL guess these guys don't pay for their own ammo.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-chase10may10,0,2324774.story?coll=la-home-headlines

Anyone else see the video? Talk about over-kill.

I have no problem with them blasting the guy if he tried to run them over but 120 shots? how many reloaded and fired more?

Ten Los Angeles County sheriff's deputies opened fire early Monday on an SUV they were chasing, discharging 120 rounds in a frenzied crossfire that injured a deputy and the unarmed suspect while sending bullets into nearby homes.
Title: Those Wacky L.A. Cops
Post by: NUKE on May 10, 2005, 07:13:56 PM
I saw the video...they had been running it on FOX a lot.

I thought the same thing....all those shots! And the guy was only hit three times and has non-life threatening injuries. Maybe they were going for the tires mostly? Who knows.

Plus, one cop got hit too.
Title: Those Wacky L.A. Cops
Post by: NUKE on May 10, 2005, 07:16:51 PM
Quote
Some residents said they believed he was showing off and teasing the officers.

"I saw him and the police going around and around and around, back and forth like a merry-go-round," said resident Tarae Smith, 41, who went to elementary school with Hayes.

"He'd stop and when it looked like the police were going to get out, he'd take off. He was playing a little cat-and-mouse game with them," added Terry Moore, 48, Smith's sister.


Maybe he won't think it's such a good idea to play games with police now.
Title: Those Wacky L.A. Cops
Post by: rpm on May 10, 2005, 07:27:29 PM
Typical overkill. Maybe if they spent a little more time at the firing range they would be better marksmen. 1 headshot thru the side window would have been sufficient.
Title: Those Wacky L.A. Cops
Post by: Flit on May 10, 2005, 08:27:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by rpm
Typical overkill. Maybe if they spent a little more time at the firing range they would be better marksmen. 1 headshot thru the side window would have been sufficient.

Rgr that! 120 rounds and all they hit was a toe , a finger and a shoulder. the cop that got hit ? upper chestplate on his body armor. What does That tell ya ?
Title: Those Wacky L.A. Cops
Post by: vorticon on May 10, 2005, 08:31:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Flit
Rgr that! 120 rounds and all they hit was a toe , a finger and a shoulder. the cop that got hit ? upper chestplate on his body armor. What does That tell ya ?


crown victorias have ****ty suspension?
Title: Those Wacky L.A. Cops
Post by: Tumor on May 10, 2005, 08:42:05 PM
Well dang... guess we need to make grenade launcher's standard issue for cops!
Title: Those Wacky L.A. Cops
Post by: Shamus on May 10, 2005, 08:52:15 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Flit
Rgr that! 120 rounds and all they hit was a toe , a finger and a shoulder. the cop that got hit ? upper chestplate on his body armor. What does That tell ya ?


Tells me one of em was aiming for the center of the mass:)

shamus
Title: Those Wacky L.A. Cops
Post by: DREDIOCK on May 10, 2005, 08:54:27 PM
Hmmm. Reminds me of an arguement I was having with someone in a thread here a few weeks ago.

Well so much for trained people with a  knowledge of firearms being able to hit a target farther then 5 feet away :aok
Title: Those Wacky L.A. Cops
Post by: Steve on May 10, 2005, 09:14:20 PM
Quote
1 headshot thru the side window would have been sufficient.


Wow, you must be one cool customer under fire.
Title: Those Wacky L.A. Cops
Post by: rpm on May 10, 2005, 10:38:32 PM
Like Steve McQueen.



Seriously tho, the guy was unarmed and he never really made an attacking move. He did back up, but it didn't say he went after anyone, he backed out of the yard in the direction of 3 officers. Once one guy opened fire, they all did. Then, they had to stop and reload.

They definitely need more training.
Title: Those Wacky L.A. Cops
Post by: Hangtime on May 10, 2005, 10:44:18 PM
Jeeze.. what ever happened to firebase artillery and naval air support?
Title: Those Wacky L.A. Cops
Post by: Vulcan on May 10, 2005, 10:45:39 PM
OMFG!!!!111!!!!222!!1!!!! Amm0 h4x sp4mz0rs!!!11!!!
Title: Those Wacky L.A. Cops
Post by: NUKE on May 10, 2005, 10:48:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by rpm
Like Steve McQueen.



Seriously tho, the guy was unarmed and he never really made an attacking move. He did back up, but it didn't say he went after anyone, he backed out of the yard in the direction of 3 officers. Once one guy opened fire, they all did. Then, they had to stop and reload.

They definitely need more training.


I think one factor is that they were responding to reports of a shooter in a white SUV.

Still, they shot the place up in pretty badly.
Title: Those Wacky L.A. Cops
Post by: Dune on May 11, 2005, 01:04:59 AM
Of course you have to put a lot of 9mm ammo into a SUV before it stops.  :rolleyes:
Title: Those Wacky L.A. Cops
Post by: Sandman on May 11, 2005, 01:08:45 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Dune
Of course you have to put a lot of 9mm ammo into a SUV before it stops.  :rolleyes:


To hear the ex-Army types around here, 9mm are crap. They can't hit anything with them and much prefer 0.45.
Title: Those Wacky L.A. Cops
Post by: eagl on May 11, 2005, 07:11:59 AM
I don't think it's just ex-army types bagging on the 9mm...  It's pretty much EVERYONE bagging on the 9mm.
Title: Those Wacky L.A. Cops
Post by: MiloMorai on May 11, 2005, 07:33:34 AM
Those shoot em up cop movies should not be used for training flims. :rofl
Title: Those Wacky L.A. Cops
Post by: lazs2 on May 11, 2005, 07:48:19 AM
since they lowered the standards for cops and went to "easily learned" semi auto pistols with lots of "firepower"...

We ended up with cops who don't care for guns and when they do have to use em they do it wrong and with about ten times the amount of ammo they need to.

PC is not a good thing here... we need 6' cops with .357 revolvers again.

lazs
Title: Those Wacky L.A. Cops
Post by: rob53 on May 11, 2005, 08:43:40 AM
And how many of you here have been in a life threatening situation, where, regardless of the circumstances, an armed/dangerous suspect required the use of deadly force?

I for one can tell you that the adrenalin dump is HUGE when faced with a use of deadly force situation presents itself.

I can't defend those officers because I wasn't there, nor can I condemn them.  The second guessing and Monday morning quarterbacking will always be present, BUT, remember this.....If it is gonna be you, or your buddy, or them.........I'm going home at the end of my shift, and so are my fellow officers.  Many, many factors come into play in a very, very short amount of time.  

Whether the use of force was necessary or not, that will be determined.  I am just asking that those of you here consider that there are more circumstances involved than what you see on a short video clip.

Yes, the safety of the public is also a huge consideration, so don't go there with me ;)
No, I'm not an LA cop, just a cop............21 years worth

Been there...........

Just my 2 cents, I could ramble on much further, but,.........back to my coffee and family, I have some errands to run soon, then get ready for work.



Rob53
Old Turks
Title: Those Wacky L.A. Cops
Post by: Creamo on May 11, 2005, 09:06:58 AM
A guy is cruising, and 10 cops show up and shoot each other. Lol, classic.
Title: Those Wacky L.A. Cops
Post by: Lye-El on May 11, 2005, 01:36:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Creamo
A guy is cruising, and 10 cops show up and shoot each other. Lol, classic.


L.A. cop. It seems in another thread they run and then bail when they might get shot down. It seems to be they run because they can't shoot and they bail because it might be their own guys that shoots them.....
Title: Those Wacky L.A. Cops
Post by: Gixer on May 11, 2005, 05:40:00 PM
Suprising to see police panic like that and empty their guns into one car. What happend to fire dicipline? Looked like that scene out of "The Gauntlet" with the bus.


...-Gixer
Title: Those Wacky L.A. Cops
Post by: lazs2 on May 12, 2005, 08:48:00 AM
there is no fire disipline with semi autos with hi capacity mags.

It is possible but rare.   I watch police training allmost daily and it is mostly emptying a gun into a target at from 5' to 15 feet as fast as you can and reloading quickly.

I believe that these cops acted exactly as they were trained to do.   I believe that their accuracy is simply a result of their training and recruiting process.

lazs
Title: Those Wacky L.A. Cops
Post by: MiloMorai on May 12, 2005, 09:52:38 AM
Quote
Originally posted by rob53
And how many of you here have been in a life threatening situation, where, regardless of the circumstances, an armed/dangerous suspect required the use of deadly force?

I for one can tell you that the adrenalin dump is HUGE when faced with a use of deadly force situation presents itself.

I can't defend those officers because I wasn't there, nor can I condemn them.  The second guessing and Monday morning quarterbacking will always be present, BUT, remember this.....If it is gonna be you, or your buddy, or them.........I'm going home at the end of my shift, and so are my fellow officers.  Many, many factors come into play in a very, very short amount of time.  

Whether the use of force was necessary or not, that will be determined.  I am just asking that those of you here consider that there are more circumstances involved than what you see on a short video clip.

Yes, the safety of the public is also a huge consideration, so don't go there with me ;)
No, I'm not an LA cop, just a cop............21 years worth

Been there...........

Just my 2 cents, I could ramble on much further, but,.........back to my coffee and family, I have some errands to run soon, then get ready for work.



Rob53
Old Turks


To bad but I am going there > public safety. Seems these LA cops had no regard for the safety of those they were suppose 'to serve and protect'.

A window hit by a cop's bullet over a 100yds away from the object they were trying to hit.

(http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2005-05/17498654.jpg)
Title: Those Wacky L.A. Cops
Post by: Wolf14 on May 12, 2005, 10:04:26 AM
10 cops
12 round clips (at least depending on caliber)
----------

120 rounds


So its really not that many bullets. They just each emptied the clip they had loaded, probably hoping between all that were there somebody would hit the guy.
Title: Those Wacky L.A. Cops
Post by: Drunky on May 12, 2005, 10:57:08 AM
Houston cops aren't much better.  I think it was the Ortega or Ortiz case.  Not sure and don't really want to hunt for it, but...

Cops were attempting to go to an apartment that had drugs and a dealer in it.  They went to the wrong apartment.

They found a young hispanic male on a matress in the apartment and they yelled, "FREEZE!!!!".  Of course the kid tries to reach under the matress.  Wasn't a gun IIRC, but it was dumb for the kid to do it.

Numerous cops open fire and fired lots and lots of round but only hit the kid a couple of times.  They killed him but their hit percentage in a relatively small apartment bedroom at a kid who never got off a matress was impressively small.

I think the cops were no-billed in the case.  Not sure why the kid reached under the matress.
Title: Those Wacky L.A. Cops
Post by: Siaf__csf on May 12, 2005, 11:13:29 AM
He probably just put his hand between his legs to support himself getting up if it was a soft mattress. :)
Title: Those Wacky L.A. Cops
Post by: mosgood on May 12, 2005, 01:00:17 PM
Quote
Originally posted by rob53
And how many of you here have been in a life threatening situation, where, regardless of the circumstances, an armed/dangerous suspect required the use of deadly force?

I for one can tell you that the adrenalin dump is HUGE when faced with a use of deadly force situation presents itself.

I can't defend those officers because I wasn't there, nor can I condemn them.  The second guessing and Monday morning quarterbacking will always be present, BUT, remember this.....If it is gonna be you, or your buddy, or them.........I'm going home at the end of my shift, and so are my fellow officers.  Many, many factors come into play in a very, very short amount of time.  

Whether the use of force was necessary or not, that will be determined.  I am just asking that those of you here consider that there are more circumstances involved than what you see on a short video clip.

Yes, the safety of the public is also a huge consideration, so don't go there with me ;)
No, I'm not an LA cop, just a cop............21 years worth

Been there...........

Just my 2 cents, I could ramble on much further, but,.........back to my coffee and family, I have some errands to run soon, then get ready for work.



Rob53
Old Turks


Hey Rob!  Good to see ya!
Title: Those Wacky L.A. Cops
Post by: flakbait on May 12, 2005, 01:03:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
there is no fire disipline with semi autos with hi capacity mags.

It is possible but rare.   I watch police training allmost daily and it is mostly emptying a gun into a target at from 5' to 15 feet as fast as you can and reloading quickly.

I believe that these cops acted exactly as they were trained to do.   I believe that their accuracy is simply a result of their training and recruiting process.

lazs



Clint Smith, owner of Thunder Ranch, has said exactly the same thing in at least three articles he's written. He's also talked about the opposite end of the spectrum. That being, officers who are trained to fire one or two shots before holstering their weapon. Training dictates what you'll do, and some of those officers only fired one or two rounds before holstering their weapon. Personally, I agree with both lazs and Clint: police officer firearms training really does depend on the department. Some will actually train the officer to be smart and accurate, some will just run drills and check little boxes off.



-----------------------
Flakbait [Delta6]
(http://www.wa-net.com/~delta6/sig/life_modem.gif)
Title: Those Wacky L.A. Cops
Post by: Drunky on May 12, 2005, 01:21:56 PM
isn't this why m-16a's aren't full auto anymore?

isn't this why navy seals/team six are taught to double tap?

Weren't team six taught to punch a 3x5 index card on a silouhet (sp)?

If cops keep running through rounds with their lack of fire discipline then maybe they only need two or three round magazines.
Title: Those Wacky L.A. Cops
Post by: Fishu on May 12, 2005, 01:42:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Drunky
Not sure why the kid reached under the matress.


If the kid was young enough, I wouldn't be surprised if he was scared by the sudden rush of armed people shouting like mad.
Got scared to **** and instinctively covered, but before realising there "was no danger", he was already shot. Cops responded to this by instincts taught to them.




But thats just hilarious, I kept laughing all the way down through the news article.
A cop even fell down due to his own fault and the fellow coppers thought he was hit :D
If that wouldn't been for real, it'd been from a comedy.


Drunky,

Just give the cops a gun which has so big recoil that it simply cannot be sprayed all around.
Maybe it would make them more willing to aim before a shot and reduce the spam.
Title: Those Wacky L.A. Cops
Post by: StarOfAfrica2 on May 12, 2005, 02:14:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Creamo
A guy is cruising, and 10 cops show up and shoot each other. Lol, classic.


Reminds me of a typical night in the MA
Title: Those Wacky L.A. Cops
Post by: lazs2 on May 12, 2005, 02:14:53 PM
milo.... you are aware that bullets will easily travel 100 yards.... ten times that or more in fact if they don't hit anything?

lazs
Title: Those Wacky L.A. Cops
Post by: MiloMorai on May 12, 2005, 02:59:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
milo.... you are aware that bullets will easily travel 100 yards.... ten times that or more in fact if they don't hit anything?

lazs


Yup. :)

Lucky it only hit a window, and not some poor innocent person in the room, they were to 'serve and protect'.

So much for all that target practice the cops do. :rolleyes:

Was there 120 bullet holes in the SUV?
Title: Those Wacky L.A. Cops
Post by: Gixer on May 12, 2005, 04:18:36 PM
Quote
I believe that these cops acted exactly as they were trained to do.   I believe that their accuracy is simply a result of their training and recruiting process.

lazs [/B]



And also a good dose of panic and typically as trigger happy as the next guy.
Looks very unprofessional.


...-Gixer
Title: Those Wacky L.A. Cops
Post by: Schaden on May 12, 2005, 04:23:38 PM
Personally I could easily hit an attacker....IF they were in a passage, not more than about 10 feet away and I was using a 12 gauge Remington pump with 8 rounds........otherwise I'd probably just make a lot of noise....