Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Udie on March 07, 2001, 07:39:00 AM
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk:80/et?ac=004500667862225&rtmo=VkkxFu1x&atmo=rrrrrrrq&pg=/et/01/3/7/weuc07.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk:80/et?ac=004500667862225&rtmo=VkkxFu1x&atmo=rrrrrrrq&pg=/et/01/3/7/weuc07.html)
I'd be PISSED if I lived in Europe, and scared of the EU. I think their true colors are starting to show.....
What do you think?
Udie
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"The ruling stated that the commission could restrict dissent in order to "protect the rights of others" and punish individuals who "damaged the institution's image and reputation". The case has wider implications for free speech that could extend to EU citizens who do not work for the Brussels bureaucracy."
You have GOT to be kidding me!
Why does this remind me of the "You MUST not HO!", the "Ban the -1C!", "Chute-Shooters must DIE!" threads? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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It'll be dealt with, there are other courts of laws.
Let's let it play out before we jump to conclusions (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
[img]http://www.geocities.com/nirfurian/stSanta.jpg[/img
"Live to pull, pull to live"
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Ok, you take unpaid leave from your company, write a book about how rotten you think their business practices are and then expect them to take you back with open arms?
This guy wasnt elected by anyone..he was employed by the EU.
Daff
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"The case has wider implications for free speech that could extend to EU citizens who do not work for the Brussels bureaucracy."
Not unusual to get fired for "dissing" the boss in public. No big deal there.
It's THIS part that's scary.
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I think the key word in that phrase is "could". This is the opinion of the author and not a statement of EU fact.
Importantly, The Daily Telegraph is Euro-sceptic and considered a Conservative publication.
FYI (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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link broken (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Link finally worked.
I find the fact that a court has held an individual responsible for his opinion, absent any indication of slander, libel, real damage or intent to damage very disconcerting. The wording quoted by the article was very indicative of an attempt to censure simply on the basis of a disagreement with the current government policies. It didn't indicate the usual type of restricted speech such as yelling fire in a crowded theater or incitement to riot.
I agree that this needs to be played out in the courts. I hope that another court would take a dramatically different stance. If not, it seems that merely being in disagreement with a Euro government entity and speaking about it may be a criminal act.
Scary thought indeed. Beware Santa..... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
Mav
[This message has been edited by Maverick (edited 03-07-2001).]
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Let's let it play out before we jump to conclusions
Fancy that...what an interesting idea, maby everybody should have that shaved into their heads.
oh wait nevermind, its about time euros were on the recieving end (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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yeah....it is kinda nice not havin to show your passpot all the time though when you travel there - except for lichtenstein! what the hell is up with lichtenstein that they have to be so fussy at the border?
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hummm
we have european court (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
but american have Bush jr (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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nono
56th (Fighter) FIREBIRDS RAF
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Beats Bore. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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I should have run for president of the US.
Lots would vote for me just for shock value.
And if not that, wouldn't you rather have me than Hillary as a senator?
"beer and state sponsored AH. Nudity included" would be my motto.
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Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
[img]http://www.geocities.com/nirfurian/stSanta.jpg[/img
"Live to pull, pull to live"
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Originally posted by nonoht:
hummm
we have european court (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
but american have Bush jr (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Wow I never looked at it like that. Glad I'm over here. WHEW!
Udie
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If Bush doesn't work, he's out on his bellybutton in 4, how about your courts? :P
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pzvg- "5 years and I still can't shoot"
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Lol Pzvg!
How true, how true!
...and his own party will lead the his parade out of town. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Gotta love this system. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
On the other hand I get the feeling the justices of the EU court are all meeting in some Munich beer hall to talk about "the way it ought to be". (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Third time is a charm. Am sure the Germans will win this time (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).
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Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
[img]http://www.geocities.com/nirfurian/stSanta.jpg[/img
"Live to pull, pull to live"
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I think so too, Santa.
Because THIS time we won't be playing for either side. We'll be watching from the cheap seats! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
<G,D,R>
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Toad, I guess I can learn to speak German (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).
Or emigrate to the US. Already speak English (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).
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Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
[img]http://www.geocities.com/nirfurian/stSanta.jpg[/img
"Live to pull, pull to live"
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lol Mounting the high horse after the farce that was your elections? I can't believe what I'm reading! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Moreover, are you absolutely sure your political system is run by people of indisputable integrity, in an completely open fashion and as far away from smoke filled rooms as possible?
How very naive! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
BTW, the EU does not have the final say on internal matters of national sovereignty. At the end of the day, if the EU passed legislation that was decidedly against the national interest or in contradiction with the will of the British people, we always have the option to leave. Secondly, it is very much in its infancy as a political union - it'll take some time to iron out the problems. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 03-09-2001).]
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Dowding, no one in the United States considers what just happened here to be the true American voting system at work.
That said, tell you what, you get rid of your bipartisan vote managers and we'll get rid of ours. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
The downfall of nearly every past culture has been it's leadership, why does everyone expect us to be different?
Btw, I thought, (forgive me if I'm wrong) that the EU was created to get around the idea of national sovereignty? que pasa?
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pzvg- "5 years and I still can't shoot"
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Dowding....
It's folks like you and your critical attitude that make many Americans consider isolation.
Our President, regardless of your opinion, will do what is in the best interest of American Citizens, which is what he is paid and trusted to do.
I think you're just jealous and overtaxed!
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Chill Ice, it's called banter.
Overtaxed? 22% here earning £17,000 per year - also have a tax free allowance of £4400. In fact you get taxed 22% earning up to 28k a year, I believe. How about you?
Jealous? Of what? We've had our turn in the lime-light and it lasted 300 years.
Pzvg - My comments were in reply to the assertion that the US is somehow 'better' than the EU. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) For a start the EU is not like the US. Member states still have controls over all issues of national importance. This might change, but it is where we are now.
The EU was primarily created to form closer ties with neignbouring countries on common issues and particularly trade. It is also designed to give more stability to Western Europe and hopefully enable former Eastern Bloc countries to eventually catch up with us. The theory here is that relative equality will avoid conflagration.
Some countries want a 'fast-track' to a Federal State; Britain is not one of them. Hopefully, the fact we are the second biggest and wealthiest country in Europe will help us to have a good deal of influence in decision making.
The EU needs reform, but (correct me if I'm wrong) so did the US when it was in its infancy.
BTW, I reckon the Sterling Pound will be gone within ten years.
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Hmmm this could make Britain the "Texas" of Europ (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Congrats!
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) Udie
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lol Udie - it certainly looks that way at the moment. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Shame we don't have the weather Texas has - British weather sucks big style. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Britain can't afford to intergrate further into EU, if it has to match the social and health systems...heck even matching the minimum salary would break a lot of companies, not to talk about working hours, etc ( Overtime?...what's that?).
OTOH, they can't afford to leave the EU. It would cost too much in subsidies to the farmers, etc, not to mention increased import costs and export restrictions.
Add to that, that we don't hesitate ourselves to go to the European Court when something goes against us, it smells very much of hypocracy (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)...
It's very much a case of "we want all the benefits, but we dont want to be involved"
Daff
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CO, 56th Fighter Group
www.56thfightergroup.org (http://www.56thfightergroup.org)
is Yardstick, follow me"
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Aye Daff. I think Labour have it just about right - examine the situation carefully without committing ourselves either way in the mean time.
The Conservatives want nothing to do with Europe at all (Hague's speech last week is a good example). But how can we influence Europe if we're not in it?
I think a balance will have to be struck while the EU is reformed.