Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: mechanic on May 12, 2005, 08:33:01 PM
-
simple solution to gameplay maybe?
all fields in each sector can only launch a limit defined by the ENY. every time a plane is lost another slot is opened.
a simple green/red light in the tower could indicate it.
on the same scale as the ENY limiter. limit the volume of players per sector. if the sector is over the limit no more planes can up on untill someone is shot down on your side.
the que to launch is defined by when you enter the tower and displayed in the radio box, rather than the names in alphab.
on small maps the horde would still exist. on larger maps people would be forced to spread out.
in this way when large tank battles are going off they wouldnt be spoiled by masses of planes, only a few dedicated plaers will get through.
when a large mission / horde atempts to capture a field, and the other country has limited planes people wont bother upping in that sector, and vulching would be reduced.
when sides are relatively equal in number then mass furballs can go on possibly for hours.
the game play will be defined by the player base on each country and the willingness to make thing equal numericaly.
-
I'll say it nicely, because likely someone else wont. Noone here wants a widget that keeps them from taking off somewheres (myself included). Such ideas were mentioned long ago, right before and even after the ENY limiter came into play. I doubt we'll see anything that limits the ability to take off, short of bombing the field flat.
-
If I reformulate your idea as I've understood it we will see messages like :
too many LA7 for this sector ?
or
To avoid whinelevel reach critical mass you cannot fly this LA7
good idea to lower whine level.
-
I like Straffo's ideal. Make the ENY value for the sector instead of the whole map, but I would make it a 9 square sector to keep people from using a base 1 sector over. But I see nothing wrong with the way it is now.
-
I've always been in favor of this. Particularly on the larger maps
I dont think an unlimited number of planes should be able to up from a single base at a given time.
This would cut down on the hording and spread the fighting out over a larger front.
It would also create smaller furballs which isnt altogether a bad thing either.
Smaller furballs will equate into higher framrates. Which is something alot of us even with higher end machines seem to be struggling with as soon as we get anywhere near a large furball.
-
Originally posted by straffo
If I reformulate your idea as I've understood it we will see messages like :
too many LA7 for this sector ?
or
To avoid whinelevel reach critical mass you cannot fly this LA7
good idea to lower whine level.
Actually I wouldnt at all mind seeing a limiter of sorts for specific plane types either.
Message could go like this.
"Maximum EZmode number has been reached. Dweebfires unavailable at this time. Time to work for a living boy":aok
-
Always been in favour of a field limit............ actually it would have to be ratio'd (inversely) to the number of fields a side actually has.
I dont see the arguement for using it to limit uber planes.........its really a limit to horde capability.
The terrain affects how its plays out.........in some instances two bases are equidistant from the action, in other instances a lone base may be at the front line forcing stuff to "up" from the rear when the front line field limit is reached.
Reckon the minimum limit would be somewhere between 15 and 20 and the max would be the side population / (# of Fields -2)
It worked well (latterly) in AW and gave a good spread of gameplay.
You did not see big darbars always agin little darbars so much.
Tails is right tho ..........many will see it as a method of stopping them from doing something they want to do.
-
I disagree Tilt IMO it's not a ratio based on field but more on airborne planes ...
example :
Side A : 5 D9 up
Side B : 5 D9 up
it's even so nothing to do...
Side A : 15 D9 up
Side B : 5 D9 up
Pretty uneven.
2 hypothesis :
[list=1]
- lower the cost for perk plane on Side B
- fire eny limiter on Side A
[/list=1]
Wouldn't be fun to see a horde of late war plane transformed in a horde of c202 ?
I'm weird ....
I know :D
-
So your saying (straffo) take the existing eny moderator and apply it to sectors instead of total terrains and make it subject to plane types or at least inversely proportional to a sides total eny count in that sector.
Actually that does seem complicated and I think the eny thing has been universally seen as a mistake as it is backed off to a point where it does not often come into use these days.
I see the objective........ my own view is that it will be inconsistant just as eny limiter is now...........one minute you can only have a C2 the next (when a couple of D9's land or get shot down) you can have a D9 but the sucker half way down the runway is still stuck in his C2. (and not liking what he sees behind him)
Resolving this would IMO make it more complicated.
Just as now when the eny limiter is on 5 repeated clicks on the la7 launch bar will catch the momentary point that it is enabled as folk land or are shot down.
-
interesting onpinions guys....
my only motive here was spreading the hordes out a bit and forcing the fight to cover the whole 'front' rather than just one sector containing 80% of the sides player base.
it is limiting to what people can do.
but in the real war, squadrons may not have been able to launch a plane for every pilot they had on any given day.
This method would force the Strat players to use their resorces more wisely rather than suicide bomb, auger, re-up because they would value they machines they were able to use alot more.
Also i believe it would (as i said) put a large limit on things like; Vulching, Hording, spawn camping, GV bombing when a huge GV fight is on.... etc etc.
i think that this could solve many problems for all the types of player.
If you think about it, im not even suggesting this for personal gain, simply to try to help everyone enjoy their aspects better.
I dont think it would be such a harsh rule as to spoil peoples fun to much.
just means if you really want to join that 25 plane horde you have to fly from the ajdacent sector for 8 mins.
Dre's comment of 'its time to work for a living boy!' is also very much a good idea.
it wont stop you flying a dweebfire or la7 if you're prepared to start your own fight somewhere, but it will stop people cashing in on fights involving many early war planes (of course purely depending on the ammount of players who choose to fly early planes in that sector)
I can only see this as a possitive idea once the initial whine knee-jerk reaction is past.
-
Originally posted by mechanic
interesting onpinions guys....
my only motive here was spreading the hordes out a bit and forcing the fight to cover the whole 'front' rather than just one sector containing 80% of the sides player base.
What happens if the hoard wants to play in one sector? You want to deny them this? I thought anyone could get up and fly how and when they want. Not true?
it is limiting to what people can do.
but in the real war, squadrons may not have been able to launch a plane for every pilot they had on any given day.
This is a real war? I thought it was a game. Not true?
This method would force the Strat players to use their resorces more wisely rather than suicide bomb, auger, re-up because they would value they machines they were able to use alot more.
Who's forcing who to do what? Are you forcing someone to play this game your way?
Also i believe it would (as i said) put a large limit on things like; Vulching, Hording, spawn camping, GV bombing when a huge GV fight is on.... etc etc.
Why would anyone want to put a limit on vulching, hoarding, spawn camping, gv bombing? The game allows it. People like doing it.
i think that this could solve many problems for all the types of player.
It would appear that many players are up doing what they want by vulching, hoarding, spawn camping, gv bombing. What problems are you discussing?
If you think about it, im not even suggesting this for personal gain, simply to try to help everyone enjoy their aspects better.
If not your gain, who gains from it? And from who's perspective?
I dont think it would be such a harsh rule as to spoil peoples fun to much.
Didn't you just say it all? Not such a harsh rule that it would spoil peoples fun TOO MUCH? Why would you wanna spoil anyones fun at all?
just means if you really want to join that 25 plane horde you have to fly from the ajdacent sector for 8 mins.
I didn't realize 26 planes was too many and a rule should be placed on how many can fly from a field.
it wont stop you flying a dweebfire or la7 if you're prepared to start your own fight somewhere, but it will stop people cashing in on fights involving many early war planes (of course purely depending on the ammount of players who choose to fly early planes in that sector)
I still have to wonder why someone wants to put a stop to what anyone who pays to chose and fly, any plane, anywhere they want.
I suppose it raises a good question...when was the last time someone told you that you can't fly a particular plane anywhere you want? Then I gotta ask, would you say, "ok, np. I won't fly the plane nor will I fly anywhere near where you are playing, ever.
I can only see this as a possitive idea once the initial whine knee-jerk reaction is past.
No offence meant but it seems like once again this type of post is just another whine about how people are playing in the arena and want to restrict it to your way of thinking. This post is a knee jerk reaction to your not being happy that everyone isn't playing the game your way.
Perhaps a more productive way of playing is to get up and enjoy the game that is presented to you.
______________
Ren
The Damned
-
Originally posted by DamnedRen No offence meant but it seems like once again this type of post is just another whine about how people are playing in the arena and want to restrict it to your way of thinking. This post is a knee jerk reaction to your not being happy that everyone isn't playing the game your way.
knee jerk reaction or not this is a forum for debate ................. your post may be interpreted to suggest that the thread should not have been created ............... how will any one know of someones views, thoughts and ideas if they do not post them for critique.
Actually there are controlling factors that limit choice already in play..........they are there to create a particular form of game play that HTC thinks will give maximum reward to maximum players.
These factors have been changed (eny limiter for one, perk system for another) to modify game play balances
as HTC sees the need to do so.
So we see there is no black/white approach to such stuff.
Hording is a problem to game play......how much is a matter of debate. How big a horde has to be until inbalances kick in that reduce player enjoyment is also a matter for debate..... what mechanisms can be used to redress the balance and how acceptable are their effects is (as above) also for debate.
However even if every one here agreed we would still only represent a % of actual players that HTC have to consider.
-
Aircraft factories with ENY based production.
As all factories they should be zone dependent.
Each factory produces X number of plane type Y per min.
Production of high ENY planes is higher then production of low ENY planes.
By bombing a factory you lower its overall production level.
If more planes of type Y are used then the factory can produce then simply plane Y wount be avialable untill its back in stock.
Tex.
-
It seems like a nice idea but consider that one side may gather a large horde of aircraft assembled behind the front line from fields in several adjacent sectors and steamroll through one sector at a time. It would be difficult for the defenders to counter since they would be scattered by the inability to take off in numbers from the nearest field.
-
One of the things I like about AH is the ability to immediately get into a fight.
There used to be airfield limits in Air Warrior and I have to say I hated it. Log onto a map, see a nice battle going on in one sector but find that you can't take part. So you're either forced to up from a far away base, fly all the way to the fight or up in a deserted sector and then fly around enjoying the scenery 'cause there isn't anyone to fight. Or you can sit in the base and wait, and wait and wait....
It also puts a severe limit on squad ops if only a third of your force can take off from a base cause of a limit.
Limit the number of planes allowed to take off from a field and don't address the issue of how a single D9 or F4U can take out an airfield's troops in a single pass and you pretty much have a recipe for stagnent maps.
-
Originally posted by Baine
and don't address the issue of how a single D9 or F4U can take out an airfield's troops in a single pass and you pretty much have a recipe for stagnent maps.
agreed re this...........
-
Originally posted by mechanic
...my only motive here was spreading the hordes out a bit and forcing the fight to cover the whole 'front' rather than just one sector containing 80% of the sides player base...
which wouldn't be a problem if 80% of the other side team was there to fight them.
-
What comes to my mind in reading this is what some people concider a problem others don't.
Last night I was at A1 for hours. The FH and the VH only got hit once in a while. The bad guys kept comeing in. The planes kept flying. The antiaircraft kept shooting. Planes on fire. Pieces falling to the ground. No constant bombers. It was fun for the people there.
You know what was on country channel?
"We're losing bases because of all the people at A1."
And other such comments.
Basically saying "Screw A1 and come down here a play like we want you to play."
I guess they figured all the enemy we had tied up at A1 would log if we left A1 and went to play "their" game.
I am sure some people would have wished to restrict that fight. Too many people over one base. Lets limit it to only 10 aircraft and force them elsewhere for the good of the game.
Everyone there, friend and enemy, could have gone somewhere else at any time, should they so have desired.
Just sayin'
-
if an LA7 pilot thought that or had read a message in the buffer stating that LA7's are no longer available from the base he took off from and/or those bases n the surrunding sectors, that la7 pilot would be more likely to fly in a more conservative manner in order to preserve his ride
-
i thought it could at least make it to one page
:rolleyes:
-
Originally posted by Baine
It also puts a severe limit on squad ops if only a third of your force can take off from a base cause of a limit.
Limit the number of planes allowed to take off from a field and don't address the issue of how a single D9 or F4U can take out an airfield's troops in a single pass and you pretty much have a recipe for stagnent maps.
It oly limits you if you insist on taking off from a base that already has a horde upping form it. It doesnt stop you from upping another base and hording from that one. It only changes the horde launch point and how many can up in a horde at any one point.
It spreads the planes out over a more even front.
Currently a single plane comming in and taking out troops is the only way for the side being horded to at least slow down the horde.
If it were harder to kill the troops it would only serve to help the horde and create a balance of gameplay that would only be enjoyable for the side doing the hording.
the Game is supposed to be "fun" for everyone. Not just the side that can steamroll with the billion man horde.
Not to mention HUGE furballs absolutely kill framerates for alot of folks here. Untill I just made a few system tweaks to my machine anytime I got anywhere near a large furball my FRs would drop to the low 20's and sometimes even the low teens. And thats with all the settings turned down. In fact during one night last week I had my FRs drop to 7. when I was near a feild that was burning
The Game at that point becomes unplayable.
and I know Im far from alone in this as I hear many
other people saaying the same thing.
Now its better but not great I still dip into the low to mid 20's now and again but at least its tolerable barely.
Also. doing some sort of ENY thing at the feilds wouldnt force everyone back a base. just over one on the front line and another furball can be created.
Instead of everyone fighting inbetween two opposing bases it would be four. or six. there would be fighting all along the front line and not just in one spot.
Hordes might actually run into one another instead of outright avoiding one another and just going up against the least defended feilds(god forbid they actually have to work to take a base) then pounding their chests and slapping each other on the back with the WTGs. Big whoop. you managed to use 20 people to take a base defended by 2 or 3 IF that many and taking an hour to do it I would hardly say is worth beating your chest over or cause for high 5's
-
Originally posted by Lye-El
What comes to my mind in reading this is what some people concider a problem others don't.
Everyone there, friend and enemy, could have gone somewhere else at any time, should they so have desired.
My point exactly. It would now seem the game was created so a select few could determine just how everyone should play? True or not true? And I'm not talking about the owners as they have set the game up for players somewhat differently than the ideas here. Or, as a follow on, when someone shows in the arena should they ask where they should be allowed to fly, what planes they can fly? And, who choses the players who will tell you how, when, where and what you will fly? Are they also going to say what country or arena, for that matter, you fly in? Kinda like playing sandlot ball. Chose up sides at the beginning of the night and go from there? Is that what everyones paying for when they show in the arenas to fly?
Please explain as I was under the impression we pay to play the way we wish to.
Last question...how would you feel if a self appointed moderator could meet you at the door and say, "Sorry you can't fly in this arena tonight because we've reached our limit of 100 people per side and we decided that was all we were gonna let in. Go somewhere else, thanks. Oh yeah, the other arenas are only allowing laffies and P40's tonight. Bombers and GV's may be available next week. If you're interested in flying bombers or driving GV's please check back with us in a few days. Have a nice time".
Good discussion, BTW:)
______________
Ren
The Damned
-
I am sick of the whines of "you just want others to play your way" crap, because it is just that, crap. If you think hordes attacking undefended fields in droves then thumping their chests about their l337 base taking toolshed skills a good thing for the game, then you need your head examined.
Play any way you want, I'll kill you anyway IF I can chase you down in the horde of 30 friendlies you're hiding in.
-
Originally posted by Stang
I am sick of the whines of "you just want others to play your way" crap, because it is just that, crap.
One way whines? I luv it!!!
Play any way you want.....
I happen to agree with that statement but I'm just one player in this discussion. Others don't so you need to direct your whines at them :)
________________
Ren
The Damned
-
its getting off topic now.
its not so much to stop people playing thereown way, just to set rules that WOULD BE DEFINED BY HTC.
its not for anyone.
its to stop the MA gameplay feeling like a quake shoot 'em up alot of the time.
Look at America's Army game online......
awesome graphics, awesome model, great amount of choices when playing.
but it lacks any structure and in the end becomes so repetitive its worthless.
-
well the debate seems to be focussing on pro and anti horde choices........
I think the pro horde lobby is really one of pro choice so you end up with anti horde v pro choice.
So what is a horde and when is choice unduly compramised?
Hordes
A momentum bulds up around an attack and folk pile in to join it............ actually this can be fun so anti horde should not remove this source of enjoyment entirely. There are arguements for limiting the numbers at some point.......taken to extreme the horde scares all opposition away and we end up with huge darbars fighting little dar bars (or no opposition) all over the terrain.
Folk must see this even now.
Trying to find combat with out excessive numbers inbalance from each side can be difficult.
But how big is a horde? we should stop using silly adjectives like massive, huge, excessive etc etc and consider numbers. The mission planner restricts missions to (I think currently) 24 folk.
If a field limit of 24 (its an example)was in place then a significant group of 24 could quite easily make a mass attack via horde techniques (pile in to join it)
Missions supporting this attack may be forced to use rear fields however if you guys do many missions you will note that they nearly always use rear fields any way. (just to get every one sorted)
Most Missions initiate attacks against new targets so they will have capacity in these cases at forward fields if they choose to use them.
Missions are also perfect tools for planning joint attacks against one target from multiple fields.
But if you all look to the terrains we use you will see that often base layout is triangulated ie there are two fields nearly equidistant from an enemy field. In these cases a field limit will still permit a 2 x field capacity (1 from each base) to hit a target...which by rights should fall PDQ.
if a side only has a few fields left then the limit has to allow for that so it has to be inverselly proportional to the number of fields. eg if the minimum limit was 20 then when
(side #)/(field #- 2?) >20 then the higher number is used. (ie 90 players 5 fields limit = 30)
When is this anti choice. Well always. But when is it unreasonable?
IMO such a system cannot be used to force exact balance, it can only be used to correct some excesses.
If such limits cause players to repeatedly be denied their choice in such a way that the reason is not obvious or apparantly fair then the set up is wrong IMO.
By looking at the map the player should be able to see that there is a chance that a particular area and therefore their field central to that area may be full already. It should not then be a surprise when the field is "full".
The concept of limited capacity is not new to this world.
Other views have been put forward that the limit be asigned to a zone and also affect eny biased plane choice.
I think if we look at this from the view of the player being denied his plane choice then there is a strong risk that he/she will not see or understand the reason why (its too complicated too subtle).
-
Originally posted by mechanic
its not so much to stop people playing thereown way, just to set rules that WOULD BE DEFINED BY HTC.
I'm sorry but I must be missing the point. Didn't HiTech already define gameplay rules? Are we not playing by them now? Didn't he throw up arenas, planes, gv's, ships and say, "these are all here for you, use them"?
its not for anyone.
Hmmmm, not sure what you mean there.
its to stop the MA gameplay feeling like a quake shoot 'em up alot of the time.
I still havn't figured out how a game that has such large arenas doesn't offer something for everyone. If you want a 1v1 they can be found. If you want to bomb, that's available, if you want to gv no one's stopping you. If there's 50 people attacking a field who said they had to? Who said they couldn't? Who said you just had to defend it? Think about it for a minute. What difference does it make if 30 people want to go take a field? If you want to start a small war all you need to do is take a fighter or two and attack some field. Someone from the other side will notice and come and fight you. Not 30 guys just 2-3 at first. Those make for nice fights. 2 hours later there may be more of your countrymen and theirs upping to fight,. Now it's progressed into a mini furball. You think its getting to big, with too many people? Go and do it at another field. If you like shooting down bombers do it! If you don't then don't go after them.
One other thing. The thread suggests a limit on how many people can attack or defend a field? If 30 people decide to attack a field why should only 30 people be allowed to defend it? What if the the 30 attackers have been playing for 3 years and the 30 defending have been playing 3 months? Boy, that sure sounds like a lot of fun showing how big you are by clubbing baby seals. What's fair odds? Maybe 50 defenders with 3 months experience against 30 attackers? So the 30 attackers should be allowed to attack and grab a base because they have been flying longer?
A lot of people complain they can't find a furball but they are all over the place. A lot of people complain they can't find a 1v1 but there a many every night.
It seems to me that if there are 500 people up flying 350 of them are generals saying we gotta attack this field or defend that field or "How come you're not helping us?" or "We're gonna lose this field if we don't start defending it". Ok, so we lose a field. Is that the end of the world?
One thing about quake....didn't it have thousands and thousands of players with clans and all? Kinda like EQ and those games with an absolutely huge number of subscribers? To us this is a game but to the folks at AH this is a job and a living with families to support, health benefits and retirement. If they could get all of those players flying here by doing some special thing no matter what any exisiting players say, don't you think they would? What do you think TOD is all about? Increasing the number of subscribers.
Look at America's Army game online......
awesome graphics, awesome model, great amount of choices when playing.
LOL, if you have all the money in the world (taxpayers, that is) and you're out to sucker young kids into the Army wouldn't you put up a pretty game for kids to play?It's a cheap way to save on advertising. LOL, I think they even put an age limit on the game for a while. It might still be there. Something about if you're 35 or older you can't come and play. Why? Because they want the young kids to join up.
but it lacks any structure and in the end becomes so repetitive its worthless.
First of all, the military doesn't care if its repetitive they just put it there to interest you into joining the Army, LOL. What a joke that is but, hey! Its got graphics!!!
You can almost say exactly the same about any game. Take any boxed game. You get up and do the same thing over and over until you eventually beat the computer AI. I call it the Lara Croft Syndrome. Over and over and over, ad nauseum. Take a furball at some field, or 1/2 way between fields. There is a continous conveyer belt of planes coming to the neverending ball (almost). They come into the fight at say 8k, they fight to the deck, die and come back. As they are working their way to the deck more planes are coming in from 8k to work their way down to the deck and so on and so on. You don't think that's repetiive?
There is one major difference. You are not playing against an AI. You CAN chose your fights and every fight is different every single time you get into one whether its a furball or a 1v1.
Isn't the real issue someone has decided "people just ain't playing the way I want them to" but its not their football or game so they post a thread saying, "we should play this way and limit this and that and oh yeah, no bombing my fields"? The only problem with that is not everyone wants to play the game the way the other guy is thinking. Perhaps that is why there ARE so many options of gameplay. So each individual can get up and do his thing either alone or in a group of his chosing and just enjoy the short time they have to fly.
_______________
Ren
The Damned
-
Originally posted by Stang
Play any way you want, I'll kill you anyway IF I can chase you down in the horde of 30 friendlies you're hiding in.
You shouldn't have a problem catching me. I'll probably be in an Osti defending. And the turrent gets destroyed pretty easy. It would also mean you are in the attacking horde. :p
-
Im sorry ren, my solicitor has advised me not to reply to you in any threads. :p
make it seem how you like, make me seem how you like.
read my original post and take that as my opinion. I see little point to continue duscusion when the little blue writting comes out because it is without reason, and you dont have a clue what im trying to say anyhow.
-
Originally posted by mechanic
Im sorry ren, my solicitor has advised me not to reply to you in any threads. :p
make it seem how you like, make me seem how you like.
read my original post and take that as my opinion. I see little point to continue duscusion when the little blue writting comes out because it is without reason, and you dont have a clue what im trying to say anyhow.
:) That help? Sorry about the blue. It just makes it easier for me to review responses to individual statements made so the reply is where it needs to be. Is green ok?
I read your first post. That's why I asked why you, me or any player in the game should have the right to dictate gameplay for everyone. Nothing more. Are you saying but limiting who can fly when, where, what plane, how many, on what map you are not trying to dictate gameplay? I've asked a simple question that you have yet to answer.
Is my asking an honest question about rights of gameplay by a player any more or less a part of this discussion as your ideas of how the game should be played are?
As HiTech said in a previous post, to him a discussion is a debate. Not perhaps my idea but there are always two sides to an idea. You expressed your views which I fully respect. I'd just like to hear why you think you should be able to limit the gameplay of any player. Did you not think that they might be enjoying themselves the way things are now? If only because you're not having fun?
_____________
Ren
The Damned
-
Did you not think that they might be enjoying themselves the way things are now?
I find it hard to believe that 15 players fighting over the scraps of 1 or 2 enemies can be considered an acceptable level of "fun."
-
Originally posted by Stang
I find it hard to believe that 15 players fighting over the scraps of 1 or 2 enemies can be considered an acceptable level of "fun."
Why do you find it so hard to believe? Do you honestly think those 15 would do it if they didnt think it was fun to them? Are you also trying to say you have never vulched some poor guy that didn't have the sense not to take off from a capped field? Or vulched as surpression to take a field? Yet now you claim how hard it is to believe that others have done what you have also done in the past?
:rofl MUAHAHAHAHAHA :rofl
I'm sorry I'm not trying to pick on you for that crap you tried to throw out to everyone but I really do need to get my boots on. :)
_______________
Ren
The Damned
-
Originally posted by DamnedRen
Curious Ren how long you've been playing.
You sound alot like me.
Two years ago.
-
Ren, we pay to play the way HT wants us to. By that I mean
when the ENY kicks in I can't fly the planes I'ld like, or drive
a tiger I want. So we are really paying to fly/drive the way HT
wants us to. I guess too many people whined about hordes
and this is his way of evening out the playing field.
Tho I will say this, it is darn hard to kill a tiger with a panzer
or T-34. Unless you're D400 to their rear or side.:D
SCDR
-
um.
nevermind.
:)
-
Seek help Ren.
-
Back on subject...
Been there...done that. That was the way AW worked. Imagine trying to run a mission and half your planes can't get up because of this limitation. Additionally, imagine a mission has launched and the field then comes under attack....and NO defenders can launch.
If this were put in place, the whining about the current ENY system would merely switch to whining about "not being able to fly from the field I want to fly from".
-
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Curious Ren how long you've been playing.
You sound alot like me.
Two years ago.
12 years or so now. Trainer for around 8 years now. I heard it all, seen it all, none of this is new. Just responding to a buncha noobs who are already burnt out and trying to make the game play they want it to so they can feel like they are getting better at it.
My only issue is the game has something for everyone but when you hear alot of whining its normally because someone is having a problem with their own game play and is looking for a shortcut to make it better for them personally. They don't seem to realize the are up to 600 different people up in the arena on a given evening from 600 different walks of life with maybe 600 different reasons for playing the game.
Think about it. Some guys just want to bomb. Some want to have a tank battle. Others like to furball. Others take fields or might like to defend fields. Those with like interests join up and go about play within the game. Those that don't do their thing. Thats what makes the game so great! Do your own thing. HT and Co. didn't build the game to stop anyone from playing the game by grabbing a plane they wanted, joining a group flying to a field (or not) and doing their thing. Well, they did. They finally bowed to the few whiners and allowed eny limits for lack of players. In other flight sims that would have never happened. If you were down on countrymen you'd suck it up and go fight the bad guys. Instead, they give the whiners an out by letting them fly all the planes. The old vets look at that and shake their heads as its almost like a cheat even thought there ain't any in AH2.
Like I say, I've been there. I fly what's been handed to me by the makers. I've seen it all so this "let's do it my way crap" is just a BB forum whine. Hey, did you ever think that this is just another outlet for the frustrations the whiners have for having a bad day in the arenas?
__________________
Ren
The Damned
-
Originally posted by SCDR
Ren, we pay to play the way HT wants us to. By that I mean when the ENY kicks in I can't fly the planes I'd like, or drive a tiger I want. So we are really paying to fly/drive the way HT wants us to. I guess too many people whined about hordes and this is his way of evening out the playing field. Tho I will say this, it is darn hard to kill a tiger with a panzer or T-34. Unless you're D400 to their rear or side.:D
SCDR
SCDR (blue is much easier to see for me:))
I agree with you. Actually he built a game for everyone with differing interests. But, he's human too. It is after all his game. If he decides he doesn't like the way something is working (or not) he changes it. I mean, it's IS his ball, right? We're just players in the game. We either accept the changes or we leave. We don't whine about it all the time. IMHO opinion i think he sometimes forgets how it was when he played (and programmed) in other games. He may have forgotten some of the reasons for a demise of DOSAW as I think he'd already left for WB but I'm sure he was "in the know". The AW folks listened to the few whiners and reset FR to the old half time arenas. It didn't take long for the vets to migrate away from the game and begin its quick downfall. By the time they realized how messed up it was most pilots had already migrated. There were other reasons but it still helped bring the demise of AW.They got a second life from an 18 month contract to run it on AOL in both Mac and PC OS's. Then they went back mainline web until EA where it began another downhill spiral for different reasons.
A lil more history...Imagine flying in an arena with 20-50 players up a night. When people talk about how it was you need to understand the numbers and the players. Also, the cost prohibited many players from playing. I think at it's cheapest you could get by at $2.99 an hour. The average college kid could not afford both a hot computer, the gear and an average of $100-120 a month plus the $20 for your service provider. Or, the additional phone line if in a household. Unless Mommy or Daddy paid for it. Not many of those. Now a youngster can go mow a lawn once a month and afford to play AH2. If they mow the lawn once a week they can afford a great computer, also. That's great. Did you know when they show up in the TA the first thing alot ask for is, "where do I find the cheats". We tell them, "there ain't none" and they press on. Kids are great! They will listen and learn as long as you don't try and feed them alot of crap. When they find out its crap there is nothing else they want hear from you. Enter the BBS. Here we get alot of these 20 year old wonder kids who've played for a whole 2-3 years. They think they are gawds gift to the game. NOT! LOL!!!
They don't realize they just add or take away from the game. But, they have a tendency to hurt the new kids coming into the game by feeding them their own brand of crap. We jump in and say its crap so the noobs can learn and enjoy the game. That's the only reason why we sometimes post.
Now, imagine just getting up and flying with the hand your dealt with? Everyone has the same planes, gv's, etc. Everyone has the same situation. They either have a lack of players due to other country's are having squad night or whatever. So now you just have to suck it up when a a few squads decide to do a mission and attack at field. You get up with whatever plane you want to defend and do your best. Guess what? You had to work a lil harder at gameplay that night. Or maybe 3 nights in a row. If you stopped them then you feel pretty good about your gameplay. If you didn't it wasn't for lack of trying. On the 4th night the other country has a shortage of people. Guess what again? Now they have to suck it up and do the best they can.
I mean come on. If you listen to the whiners, Gawd Forbid that everything can't be handed to them on a silver platter. They need to learn how to suck it up and play the game as its dealt to them.
IMHO stopping the hoard is something the Damned love to do and go out of their way to get into the middle of. Why? Because that's the way we have always fought. We have never run from a fight. We get up and do our best with what we have to work with. When HT's ENY crap kicks in we still get up in planes and continue fighting without evening thinking about it.
Being politically correct has finally worked its way into the gaming industry (think AOL AW) but us old vets think "if its wrong then its wrong" and we have no problems stating the facts. The whiners hate hearing they're wrong and will go out of their way to have the last word. If its wrong you can have the last word, it's still wrong and everyone knows it :).
________________
Ren
The Damned
-
Originally posted by DipStick
Seek help Ren.
Dip, see this color? It matches everything you've ever posted and the value you bring to it. Now go back into your hole.
:rofl MUAHAHAHAHA :rofl
-
Originally posted by SCDR
Ren, we pay to play the way HT wants us to. By that I mean
when the ENY kicks in I can't fly the planes I'ld like, or drive
a tiger I want.
Ya know.. Maybe you should just learn to "like" to fly a plane that's not so easy to buzz around and shoot at things!
Very rarely do I suffer from the ENY limit. That may be because I look for a challenge rather than a win? Who knows.
W~
aka Damned Wind
-
Originally posted by Wind
Ya know.. Maybe you should just learn to "like" to fly a plane that's not so easy to buzz around and shoot at things!
Very rarely do I suffer from the ENY limit. That may be because I look for a challenge rather than a win? Who knows.
W~
aka Damned Wind
Hmmm... when I fly, I like the F-4U1 (ENY of 30 I think), 110G-2,
Ki-84, and a couple other "old" planes. You misunderstood me.
IF and WHEN I get enuff fiter perks I usually do something really
stupid with my 262 and end up losing it.:eek:
I'm with the horde that thinks ENY SUCKS a big one, yet we are
stuck with it.
SCDR
-
Originally posted by SCDR
Hmmm... when I fly, I like the F-4U1 (ENY of 30 I think), 110G-2,
Ki-84, and a couple other "old" planes. You misunderstood me. IF and WHEN I get enuff fiter perks I usually do something really
stupid with my 262 and end up losing it
Yup, I misunderstood you. I thought only GOOBS fly perked planes, let alone lose them...
W~
-
I still honestly believe the "game" is what you make of it:aok
The problem with you Ren, is you speak the truth, most don't like the truth.
-
Originally posted by Furious
which wouldn't be a problem if 80% of the other side team was there to fight them.
I have to agree with Furious here.
It's a nice idea Batfink and I can see its merits, but I personally don't agree with things like ENY or sector limits on late war planes or the like. Not that I usually fly planes that would be affected by it, I just don't think anyone should be, really.
For me, the reason the MA gets lame sometime has nothing to do with what planes I'm facing or how many I'm facing so much as how they choose to face me. It's not so bad being in a 4 on 1, but its pretty bad having more and more jump in, spraying and praying, past that. It really doesn't matter if its a swarm of La7's or SpitI's, there's still a major problem.
Another "issue" is the "Merge then runners". It doesn't really matter if they're in a P51 or a 109F, it can still be pretty boring.
Many of the "problems" in this game, or at least the parts I find disagreeable, seem to come down to a lack of basic sportsmanship. But, this, being an online computer game, I would wager that a fair amount of subscribers really never got into sports, and may lack the concept of winning graciously, accepting defeat with dignity, and giving it their best shot.
Just some random thoughts... I'm sure I'll be crucified for the last comment but I think it's a plausible idea :p
-
Originally posted by Vudak
Many of the "problems" in this game, or at least the parts I find disagreeable, seem to come down to a lack of basic sportsmanship. But, this, being an online computer game, I would wager that a fair amount of subscribers really never got into sports, and may lack the concept of winning graciously, accepting defeat with dignity, and giving it their best shot.
I disagree. I think its the anonymity the internet provides plus the low cost that brings all types out of the woodwork. For the most part just about all the AH players just get up and play and try to enjoy. As I have always mentioned there are the 10% who are just a buncha low lifes who have to push their opinions on everyone else. They get to hide behind the net and say what they want. They could care less what anyone else thinks. They have to have the last word no matter how wrong they are. MUAHAHAHA!
You are correct that they have absolutely no concept of sportsmanship as they've never had to stand up and be accounted for. What they don't seem to understand as most players could care less about what they have to say. That is, until they start pushing the newer players away from the game. Then the older players start to get into their garbage threads and call them on their trash talk.
_______________
Ren
The Damned
-
I love the idea of a sector limit INSTEAD of a plane limit.
It's my opinion that the majority of the guys flying around in late war speed demons like the 51D, 190D9, and 109G10 do so because they lack the confidence to really mix it up. They never found a way to out fly their opponents, so they try to have faster planes then them. And while I think it's pathetic that these guys would rather get shot to hell while running and maybe keep enough parts to fly home after they finally get safe seperation, I don't want to put them in a hopeless situation either. Sure they will never learn confidence in their ability to fly defensively if they always just try to run, but the truth of the matter is many of those people will never become decent pilots anyway. Christ, look at SHawk. He's achieved the K/D most dweebs dream of, but he still would rather run home early then take the defensive for a few minuts. If we put these guys in slow planes they are just going to get more and more timid, as what little faith they have in their abilities approaches zero. Limiting sector useage wouldn't destroy their confidence in their plane, only limit their confidence in their numerical superiority. Of course there are some pilots so dweebishly timid that a loss of numerical superiority also prevents enguagement.
That said this is all moot, as I can't see HT being willing to even briefly consider something like this until well after TOD is said and done. I imagine most of the people in the MA who would be willing to inconvenience themselves for the sake of more fair fights will fit in perfectly there. I also imagine the real score potatos will migrate that way as well, as TOD scores will actually be worth something.
-
the one thing you're forgeting is 'you' are only one player yourself.
incase you were, please cease to think you know 'me' or 'us' or whoever 'we' are. any of us. and dont ever assume i am hiding behind the net. im the same stunninghunk in real life.
who are you?
you choose to make one of my threads, a 'Ren' thread....
....again!
:D
-
Originally posted by mechanic
the one thing you're forgeting is 'you' are only one player yourself.
Very true. But I have yet to try and tell anyone how to play the game. I get up fly and generally enjoy every fight I get in, win or lose. I don't whine because I got shot down. The only time I've ever been heard on 200 is to say Hi.
incase you were, please cease to think you know 'me' or 'us' or whoever 'we' are. any of us.
"We" meaning you, me and anyone who posts are known by our actions (read posts). My posts are meant to help people. Not for my own personal gain.
and dont ever assume i am hiding behind the net. im the same stunninghunk in real life.
who are you?
You are what you are. If you wish to say that about yourself who am I to disagree with you? I never said it. :)
Who am I? I'm just a dude whose been playing these games for a lot of years and decided many years ago I should try and give something back to the game I've come to love. To do that I became a trainer and spend most of my time trying to help people learn the game so they become active members of the community iso targets.
you choose to make one of my threads, a 'Ren' thread....
....again!
Why is it a Ren thread? Because I mentioned personal gain by a few iso what all the players might like to see or are already enjoying in the arenas? Did it ever occur to you that many folks like what they see in the MA just as it is?
___________________
Ren
The Damned
-
nice touch with the black writting, i knew i could make ya soon enough ;)
the MA is fine, this is a forum for general discussion not Judge Jury and Executioner dooomsday master extroidinair discusion.
anyhow, i have not passed judgement on you without your provocation once in my life.
I help alot of people, if you're so in touch with our community then you might know this.
I have started many squads and from the word go in my AH time i have always stuck up for the numbers dweebs....hell i recruited 616700 into my first ever AH1 squad.
he of course was the only mistake :p
fubar!
I have spent hours, no days at a time in the DA and TA being a productive member of this little game to the best of my abilities. I dont bash noobs, i dont bash GVs...alot.... i dont bash runners, gangers, vulchers....much... when i die i get all my ammo back so im happy.
I have spent hours with individual training partners, some rookies who i have , some who are on the same level as me, and of course alot who school me. it all goes round in circles and we all share whatever wealth we have.......most of it ;)
funny thing is, there is absolutely none of your flying style in my limited bag of tricks. this is because you never came to me and helped me, flew with me, nor cared to.
where were you for me when i was a noob mate? i've only been here a few years :(
whatever.
i play my game, i am polite to mostly everyone, i may take people up on their smack.........but then did not the great pilots of the first world war do the same? heck, it was almost as much of a game to them as it is to us.... at first....
anyhow, i do not wish this statement i have posted to be quoted and chewed up and spat on me.
i typed it because it is my opinion and at present it wont change.
so read it and think about it.
you wouldnt want to control my opinion would you ren?
-
Originally posted by Tails
I'll say it nicely, because likely someone else wont. Noone here wants a widget that keeps them from taking off somewheres (myself included).
I totally agree with Tails. I would like to see a lot of people and one sector because that means FURBALL. Some people may not want it becaues they their FR's will go down and they lag too much.
About a month ago, I ran into a perfect furball. It was between the knights and bish. All the planes were in a valley and it was about 30+ planes on each side in that valley and it was fun even though there was little chance you were going to make it out. If that limiter was on, then myself and others wouldnt be able to enjoy great furballs like that and that was the best furball I have seen in ages especially because everyone was the same alt and speed so it was a very even fight.
Hoarach
-
whoever said the limiter would not ever let you take more than 30 planes up?
the initial idea i had was maybe to make it an issue when the arena is 450-550 players packed out.
not to stop anyone having their fun.
but lets say there is 70 planes in a sector, then you would have to fly from the next sector.
the furballs would never die, just elongate themselvs along the whole front.
it was just a passing thought, worthy of posting to see what we think.
i am niether 100% for or against it, and lets face it we're only pissing in the wind here anyhow, it would never reach the game.
-
Originally posted by mechanic
nice touch with the black writting, i knew i could make ya soon enough ;)
I thought I told you it's easier for me to see and read the response before I send it. Did you miss that?
I help alot of people, if you're so in touch with our community then you might know this.
Sorry, I don't keep track of your flying, so I have no idea what you do. I will say I have not seen you in the TA in the past year or two but I'll take yer word for it :).
I have started many squads and from the word go in my AH time i have always stuck up for the numbers dweebs....hell i recruited 616700 into my first ever AH1 squad.
Wow, I've only started one. But then again it was merely an offchute of the orignal Damned when some of us migrated to MACAW Beta on AOL near the demise of DOSAW. May I ask why you started so many? Did something happen to them?
I have spent hours, no days at a time in the DA and TA being a productive member of this little game to the best of my abilities. I dont bash noobs, i dont bash GVs...alot.... i dont bash runners, gangers, vulchers....much... when i die i get all my ammo back so im happy.
I have spent hours with individual training partners, some rookies who i have , some who are on the same level as me, and of course alot who school me. it all goes round in circles and we all share whatever wealth we have.......most of it ;)
funny thing is, there is absolutely none of your flying style in my limited bag of tricks. this is because you never came to me and helped me, flew with me, nor cared to.
You know my flying style? I don;t see much of you anywhere. Funny, I havn't seen you the training arena in the past few years. The discussion isn't about my asking around to the other trainers when the last time they saw you there, nor do I care.
As far as me training? If you ask I will not turn you away even if you just need a target I'll do that. There's folks been flying for year that come in to work on things. That's why there are trainers available.
where were you for me when i was a noob mate? i've only been here a few years :(
Sorry, I don't remember you ever in the TA. Did you ever ask anyone for help?
i play my game, i am polite to mostly everyone, i may take people up on their smack.........but then did not the great pilots of the first world war do the same? heck, it was almost as much of a game to them as it is to us.... at first....
Maybe for a few youngsters who don't know better, sure :)
anyhow, i do not wish this statement i have posted to be quoted and chewed up and spat on me.
Who's spitting on you? Hehe, you make so many different statements I try and respond to them all for you. Is that chewing?
you wouldnt want to control my opinion would you ren?
Nope but I sure don't mind responding to your opinions when they're only meant to garner support for gameplay because you're not enjoying all the gifts HTC has given you to use. I am responding as any other member who happens to read the BB. I just don't happen to agree with some of the things you throw up and merely challenge you to respond.
I still haven't figured out why you are so upset with gameplay as it is. Are you getting shot down alot? Can't kill the buffs? Having trouble with furballs? Why is it "oh so bad" for you? It sounds like you just don't want to have to defend a field anymore. If so, who ever told you that you had to? If three planes attack you and kill you then its a hoard. If you can manage those three planes then it isn't. If 50 planes come into a field its a hoard. If 25 planes can manage and kill those 50 then its not a hoard just alot of targets. It's all depends on your point of view. The games great! What's so difficult about enjoying it the way it is? Or have you just gotten used to listening to a select few who've been flying a few years yet think they're gawds gift to the game? They ain't! If they left tomorrow the game would go on. Which reminds me. Have I ever in any post told you if you don't like it leave? Anyone who has ever said that is only out for themselves and if you ever believe they're there to help you your wrong. They want to help you to inflate their ego more.
_____________________
Ren
The Damned
-
a person as jaded as you should never be alowed in a possition of influence amoung newcomers.
the TA is not the best place to learn, and i often invite noob to DA from TA, i have seen you in the TA, so once again i didnt ask your help, or you didnt give it or whatever.
i asked you not to quote me, and spit anything i say into your own twisted little spitball that you can throw at anyone.
im ignoring you from now on.
-
Mechanic:
"a person as jaded as you should never be alowed in a possition of influence amoung newcomers"
You should take a look in the mirror
"the TA is not the best place to learn"
In your opinion
-
Forget all the bickering posts, but the proper translation for the original post is:
"I want to secretly gather xxx people on my team (where xxx is the sector cap) and steamroll unprotected bases, but block the enemy from even showing up because we're forcing them to lift off from 50 miles away due to the sector cap. I don't want people to shoot me while I'm in a GV, or attack me while I'm horde-porking undefended fields"
That's about the gist of the original post.
-
Yeah, that works about as good as this(http://www.m45.biz/clients/momentum/graphics/roundpeg.gif)
-
Originally posted by Krusty
Forget all the bickering posts, but the proper translation for the original post is:
"I want to secretly gather xxx people on my team (where xxx is the sector cap) and steamroll unprotected bases, but block the enemy from even showing up because we're forcing them to lift off from 50 miles away due to the sector cap. I don't want people to shoot me while I'm in a GV, or attack me while I'm horde-porking undefended fields"
That's about the gist of the original post.
Well, Krusty, you obviously don't know Batfink.
-
I will quote the original post:
"in this way when large tank battles are going off they wouldnt be spoiled by masses of planes, only a few dedicated plaers will get through.
when a large mission / horde atempts to capture a field, and the other country has limited planes people wont bother upping in that sector, and vulching would be reduced."
Basically he doesn't want to be killed in a GV by planes (GASP! Planes in a flight sim?!?!?!)
And then he doesn't want people to up from fields being horded/swarmed by larger groups. (GASP! Try defending your own fields??)
-
Originally posted by Krusty
Basically he doesn't want to be killed in a GV by planes (GASP! Planes in a flight sim?!?!?!)
And then he doesn't want people to up from fields being horded/swarmed by larger groups. (GASP! Try defending your own fields??)
Once again, you OBVIOUSLY don't know Batfink ;)
-
I'm talking about "Mechanic". If he flies under "Batfink" no I don't know him. Regardless, the request is frivolous, unnecessary, and a whine hidden in a polite post.
5/10, TOPS, and that's being generous on the whine scale.
-
You don't have to know him just read his threads and you get an immediate picture.
____________________
Ren
The Damned
-
F
U
C
K
Y
O
U
:aok
-
Krusty, Batfink (Mechanic) is a pure bred furballer in the MA, your read between the lines of his post is totally off.
-
EEK edit that quick Bat.
:rolleyes:
-
Originally posted by mechanic
F
*
*
K
Y
*
U
:aok
That's nice
:rolleyes:
-
screw you maroons anyhow.
thanks to those who actually know me and have stuck up for me against this tirade of stupidity.
ban me, eject me, hate me, i dont give a chit.
I've got serious problems right now and i dont need any of this crap.
i never asked for this bull**** from REN, and i dont know where you get off jumping on my back also LTARD.
I have always been polite and fun to everyone i meet, and quite honestly I feel so crappy most days that i wish i was already dead.
Do any of you know what it is like to have reached the peak of enjoyment you can ever get out of life, and now it is all slowing down and shuting off. and i havnt reached 30 yet.
I try my best to be nice and make it seem like i'm your average kid just having fun but im not.
NOW **** OFF