Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: SKJohn on May 13, 2005, 11:07:09 AM
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How many people fly both games? Is it just me, or does the flight model seem more difficult in PF?
Also, I'm using a Saitek x-45 setup. There doesn't seem to be anything like we have in AH for setting the joystick controls - is it just me, or do you really have to click on each individual button that you want to set?
What do you think of the view system? WHen I was trying to set up my view hat, I didn't know what to do with the "6" position, since in PF, there is no direct 6 view - you can either look back-left, or back-right. Any suggestions on what to use the 6 view position for?
Does anybody have a good "~.dat" file for the x-45 that they use in Pf they could post here?
I've waited a long time to get a new computer to play this game (as well as turn up the detail and FPS in AH...), but trying to get the joystick to work like I have it in AH so far seems next to impossible.
Thanks,
SKjohn
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My major gripes with the IL2 series is the way it handles trim and the too restrictive views.
Other than that i think it's ok- i play it when the MA doesn't look too appealing.
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I set up all my PF so that control buttons and views match those in AH - same button does the same thing.
Tracker does make PF easier to use but using yr stick buttons is for me easier to view in AH.
PF flight model seems to be more - don't know how to describe it - but the planes seem to be less solid in that you can't control momentum as easy as it is to do in AH.
Gunnery about the same for me - prefer the complex engine management of PF - wish we had that in AH.
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I own both.
While PF is very pretty and nice, it has the immersion and environment of a toilet roll. Playability is pretty poor once you've completed all the canned-scripted-linear missions. The interface is a little 'eye-watering' for boring design.
A decent dynamic campaign engine would of been nice. But then again, if I want something that is interactive, dynamic, fun, social, I fly Aces High.
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Another thing I've noticed is the graphics. In AH, when you see planes in the distance, they look like little black dots. In PF, when I saw distant planes, they were very fine, small black dots that rapidly tuned into very small recognizable a/c shapes.
Yes, the flight model does seem different - less "auto-piloty" than in AH. I think that's because of the inclusion of "combat trim" in AH. I don't think there is any thing like combat trim in PR - at least I haven't found it yet.
In doing some searching for .DAT files to use, I came across soem that people were talking about using "Hazard Script" to write the commands in. I'm not really sure yet what that is,and if it bypasses Saitek's programming software yet or not.
Last night I tried to create a .dat file using the Saitek software and the default command schedule for PF. It wouldn't work correctly when I loaded it. I had much better luck trying to assign each button its own function directly in the game.
I'd like to get it set up so the buttons are the same as in AH, but like i said earlier, some of the commands in AH don't exist in PF.
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SKJohn, I've been playing multiplayer in IL2 and IL2/FB since it came out, and have all the addons.
The graphics quality and attention to detail is very nice and immersive. The FM is probably one of the best for boxed games, but in all honesty I find Aces High more believable.
The take-off/landing is much more difficult in IL2/FB/AEP/Pacific Fighters, and that's one part I like better than AH.
However, all the planes feel somehow 'generic' when it comes to low speed handling and torque. In AH torque is a mighty factor - managing your plane to do a straight 90degrees vertical is always a challenge. Planes with high torque like the 109 keep want to slouch to one side.. and etc etc.. However, FB/AEP/PF feels very generic in this area.
Also, the use of flaps is something I don't like, and FB/AEP/PF is virtually a flap fest. Add in the little disappointments like manual RPM control exploits and etc.. and the MP experience is fairly ruined.
Unless one flies in organized scenarios with the online-war organization, the regular MP experience isn't bad, but AH beats it hands down.
Besides, AH2 is taking shape nicely, and while it's not state-of-the-art like FB/AEP/PF and etc, the graphical quality of AH is slowly making progress and I like it.
Both are excellent flight simulations, but I would favor AH over FB/AEP/PF.
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Originally posted by SKJohn
What do you think of the view system? WHen I was trying to set up my view hat, I didn't know what to do with the "6" position, since in PF, there is no direct 6 view - you can either look back-left, or back-right. Any suggestions on what to use the 6 view position for?
There is no comparison between AH's and IL2's view system. AH's is fantastic (though a bit liberal) and IL2's is the proverbial crappy-assed eyeball on a stick.
Do you know how to customize your views???
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Originally posted by SKJohn
How many people fly both games? Is it just me, or does the flight model seem more difficult in PF?
Also, I'm using a Saitek x-45 setup. There doesn't seem to be anything like we have in AH for setting the joystick controls - is it just me, or do you really have to click on each individual button that you want to set?
What do you think of the view system? WHen I was trying to set up my view hat, I didn't know what to do with the "6" position, since in PF, there is no direct 6 view - you can either look back-left, or back-right. Any suggestions on what to use the 6 view position for?
Does anybody have a good "~.dat" file for the x-45 that they use in Pf they could post here?
I've waited a long time to get a new computer to play this game (as well as turn up the detail and FPS in AH...), but trying to get the joystick to work like I have it in AH so far seems next to impossible.
Thanks,
SKjohn
x45 profile (http://www.pogbird.com/X45)
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I think they both have pros and cons... I usually flip a coin to see which i play... if i have a lot of squaddies here, i play here... if not i prefer the more realistic fm and damage model of pf
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Originally posted by SKJohn
is it just me, or do you really have to click on each individual button that you want to set?
suggestions on what to use the 6 view position for?
When you set up the buttons are you choosing the function first and then clicking the button of choice on your stick?
When you do it that way it makes it easy and then just click assign.
Assigning the hat to the normal left, right and back views is fine, but I find that in addition if you set the forward postion on the hat to front-up and then assign the rear-left and rear-right positions you get a pretty good range of view while flying. That would give you seven views since straight front is default :D
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Eagler,
Thanks for the profile! If I remember correctly, it was your profile for the X-45 that got me started in here. Obviously, you have both the x-45 and the x-52. As an experienced x-45 user, what are your feelings re: the x-52?
I've really enjoyed the x45, and in spite of what some others have said, it fits my hand very well and I find it very comfortable to use. That being said, what made you buy an x52? What are the differences, and pluses and minuses of each as you see it?
The reason I'm asking is I know that somewhere down the road, these will probably start to wear out, and the x-45 probably won't be available for replacement then.
Since you bought the x52 when you already had the x45, do you think it was worth it? Are there enough advantages to justify it?
Thanks again, you've beena big help!
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I like the X45 over the X52 hands down
I picked up the X52 after the X45 I got at compusa bit the dust and had to use my replacement plan and found they did not carry the X45 anymore. I was disappointed in the X52 feel, the jstick is so loose that it is hard to get a good feel of control for me. I tried it for about a month and then bought another X45 from Circuit City.
Last night, after about 6 months of use, the main hat on the X45 took a dump. I have a service plan with it also and am hoping CC still carries the X45. In the meantime I have to hook up the X52.
The X52 would be so much better if the jstick tension was closer to the X45 tension. They seem to be built for children with a 3 year old wrist strength. Programming is better, though the rotors are not the same and it messes with my manual trimming.
In a nutshell, stick with the X45 as long as you can
good luck with the profile
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I hate the IL2 gunnery engine. The damage model is good, but offline-only, for the most part. Try coding that for a MMO flight sim.
But the gunnery sucks. Can't hit anything unless you're .2 off its bellybutton dead 6 with no variation. Even the supposedly long range and stable 20mm cannon can't hit out farther.
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That's a bit of an exaggeration, but deflection shooting is definitely harder in Il-2/FB/PF. I've attributed this mainly due to it being a lot tougher to see if your bullets/shells are striking unless they're explosive, as well as the recoil modelling in PF being a lot less merciful than in AH. 20mm and larger guns throw your nose off line way more than in AH, even centerline guns like the 109's spinner cannon.
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PF wins the eye candy hands down. AH wins the MP aspect just as handilly. The planes seem too "floaty" to me in PF and the low speed handling is terrible. Gunnery is a biatch in PF too, at least for me. If only the campaigns were dynamic I'd play it in SP mode more than I do.
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the il2 series is great for ofline, but it takes a super system to play it online, the view system stinks, and its not getting updated like a mmog does, it gets patches every now and then, but i dont see the dedication to making it better, i hope battle of britain will be better online, i hear it will also support track ir vector.
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Dug out Pacific Fighters while AH is having the server changing problems. Still having problems getting the views down, I much prefer the AH view system.
Somebody mentioned earlier in this thread about customizing the views. Is that the views in AH or PF? I know how to do it in AH, but I'm clueless as to how to go about it in PF. For me, that is the most frustrating part of PF - trying to get used to the view system. I know from some of the movies that have been posted on-line that people have made in IL2-FB-PF that they get some really good looking views going on, but I suspect they must be using TrackIR to get them that good.
Another question: in PF, is there something like the "backspacce" key in AH that allows you to choose weapons, drop tanks,etc? Haven't been able to figure that one out yet.
If we could get the eye candy of IL2-FB-PF with the playability of Aces High, wouldn't that be a sweet flight sim!
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Think you should find a "IL2-FB-PF" message board and ask for help there. Just MHO. ;)
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Crimson Skies beats both:D
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I don't have a reliable internet connection here at school, so I play IL2/PF daily.
I use the dynamic campaign generator and I'm happy with it. Immersion is all how you make it. I have no outside views, changed the icons to just distance locators, no map minipath or display of friend/foe, and so on.
The truth is that I enjoy it just as much as I did with AH, if not better. Squaddies listen, fly in formation, theres no ******s going around porking bases with a suicide Tempest or low-level B-17s on GVs. Its all approached in a very war-like way. 109s fight P-51s and Yaks, Zeros fight Corsairs, and so on. Thats my immersion.
I recommend scouting downloads to increase the immersion, such as user-made missions, skins, etc. There are even some mini-mods (Stab is named one of them) which replaces the skins, missions, and everything else to make you feel like you're there. (They put swastikas on the German planes even.)
Personally, I wish I could get Aces of the Pacific working on my computer. Now THAT was immersive.
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This cockpit looks better than the Spit cockpit I remember seeing in Il-2:
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/superfly/spit145.jpg)
If anybody can post a contrasting image it'd be interesting to see.
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Not much difference
(http://homo-sapiens.info/images/pfspit.jpg)
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Originally posted by 2bighorn
Not much difference
(http://homo-sapiens.info/images/pfspit.jpg)
i like this one better..... and the beaches... and the sky..
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THAT is a beach. Imagine LVTS rolling on it.
Played IL2 a bit....went crazy after 1 hour, the views killed me.
Tried every move I knew in AH atm, and the bots are unshakable whatever you plane is, its the paradise of the runner.
The plane feels slugish and lighthanded (whatever that meant), but the engine details are worth the comment :)
Gunnery is pretty fustrating when you fly AH mostly, but with some training I think you can make some pretty goose shots (lol) and maybe more realistic (pilot kill at d800?), and seeing all those parts fall of the plane is sooo good :O .
What is nice in AH is that you actually have to read your indicators :)
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Turn off the digital stuff in IL2 except nav, and use the gauges. That's what I do.
And I have to agree, IL2 looks great, is fun to fly (views no prob for me), and the hit sprite with .50cal look awesome.
I like to play IL2 before I play AH because it makes my AH gunnery better.
Two good games, for different reasons.:)
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I could never read the guages in IL2.
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(http://www.hitechcreations.com/superfly/spit145.jpg)
(http://homo-sapiens.info/images/pfspit.jpg)
Then compare this...
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/269_1129685864_screenshot_000.jpg)
Opppssss.... wrong era.:huh
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Originally posted by o0Stream140o
Then compare this...
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/269_1129685864_screenshot_000.jpg)
Opppssss.... wrong era.:huh
A-10 from Lock On:D got it a few days ago still learning the ropes but its alot of fun, but HARD.
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IL2 view system sucks, and I can say from personal experience that it's far more restrictive than in a real ww2 plane in flight even when tightly strappred in for aerobatics to say nothing of when you loosen the shoulder straps.
Use the 6 view button in AH to look back, just like you can in real WW2 fighters.
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Personally I hate trim. I know it is realistic. But you never know if its your stick acting up(even though I have digital, it is carried over from those old analogs that would lose center everday) In Il2 I spend 90% worrying about trim, and everytime I get a shot oppurtunity and unload, trim yanks my nose way off target. Do you think about trim when driving your car? no, and I am sure in the air it is just as an unconcious act.
2nd the view system in IL2 sucks, very much bad.
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The F4U flight model is not very good in PF, and I am a big fan of that aircraft. The aircraft detail was a bit disappointing, not the graphics, but the characteristics and function. It's definately a boxed game.
Regards,
Malta
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Game verses Sim.
Its really kinda hard to beat 500+ players in one arena thats for sure.
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Stream,
To me the best looking of those cockpits is the AH2 one and the worst is the Lock On cockpit. The Lock On one is so bad is looks like one of the old 2D cockpits from the days of AOE, PAW, EAW and so on. It is higher rez, but is still looks crappy.
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Origionaly posted by rt sigma
Personally, I wish I could get Aces of the Pacific working on my computer. Now THAT was immersive.
get dosbox, i have been playing aces of the pacific again, as well as red baron , great games! great memories!
go to underdogs.com to get the old games.
tho i have the origional floppys for aop and red baron, aop had a 200 page manuel with a really detailed summary of the air war and lots of great photoes. Imho i havent seen a campeign system that has beat it yet, or done anything but copy it.
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I fly both, PF from what I hear has a very realistic flight model, now AH is more action like, more for everyone rather then the realistic freaks. I fly PF for realistics and I play AH for the fun. I've flown since I was 12 (I'm 21 now) and I'll tell ya, I've never flown in a plane that stalled as much or zoomed as well as AH planes! Thats also been said alot in many forums, but it's easier to get a hang out them most other sims and thats why I like it.
Edward
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EdXCal,
How many planes have you flown that had 2000+hp engines, weighed 8,000-20,000lbs and had wing loadings of 35-55lbs/sq.ft?
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eilif,
underdogs.com is some educational video website. You got the right link up?
:eek:
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Originally posted by Karnak
EdXCal,
How many planes have you flown that had 2000+hp engines, weighed 8,000-20,000lbs and had wing loadings of 35-55lbs/sq.ft?
Karnak remember back to when you were 21. I can remember my late teens early 20s, I knew it all also.
Bronk
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"I've flown since I was 12 (I'm 21 now) and I'll tell ya.... "
Yo! Welcome back Straiga. ;)
"I've never flown in a plane that stalled as much or zoomed as well as AH planes! "
Course not. Unless you'll try to claim you singularly piloted your dad's P-51 ... several times.
Truthfully? I have to "lol" at those who compare thier (claimed) RL experience in essentially light weight civilian craft to WWII fighters which weigh a hellovalot more and are have seom serious horspower hanging out front. Reminds me of a guy from WB's who would always brag about WB's flight model cause the planes thier handled just like a Pitts Special..... Sorry to pop that delusional bubble dood. These aren't Cessnas nor Pitts being modelled in these game/sims.
Hmmm. Maybe I should wander to the Grand Prix Legends forum and claim I know what racing a 1967 Formula 1 should be like cause I drove a V8 equpped Ford Crown Victoria really fast a bunch of times.
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Originally posted by Westy
Hmmm. Maybe I should wander to the Grand Prix Legends forum and claim I know what racing a 1967 Formula 1 should be like cause I drove a V8 equpped Ford Crown Victoria really fast a bunch of times.
man.....it must be cool to know what it feels like to drive a 1967 formula 1 car, i envy you! :eek:
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oh and all IL2 games are rubbish in comparison to aceshigh in every single aspect.
the terrain looks better for AH, and remember, it is fully modeled to take a ground war not just look good from 10k.
the rgraphics on IL2 are too soft and blurry.
AH is clear, crisp and it feel to me that its pretty geometrically acurate.
someone mentioned that the dots of far planes turn into shapes soon in IL2, but have you never noticed how when it gets to 1000yrds its morphs down a size in pixels to get back scale?
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"i envy you!"
Naturally.
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Even though I have both the IL2 and PF series, I lost interest in it almost right away because from what I gather, their idea of online play is something like 30 or 32 players or something. I don't even have them on my hard drive anymore :(
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No need to pick one over the other. They are both great sims. I fly them both.
Dave
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You guys llike Nomak and the others that fly them both:
How did you set up your views? Do you use trackir? It seems like you really need it to make the most of PF. I just can't get the view hats to work for me in PF - have taken to using the small mouse on my throttle (x45) as the mouse for views so I can look around while flying. It is still a PITA and no where near as smoth as using the view hats in AH.
IF you have any clues or suggestions, I'd really appreciate it.
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Originally posted by SKJohn
You guys llike Nomak and the others that fly them both:
How did you set up your views? Do you use trackir? It seems like you really need it to make the most of PF. I just can't get the view hats to work for me in PF - have taken to using the small mouse on my throttle (x45) as the mouse for views so I can look around while flying. It is still a PITA and no where near as smoth as using the view hats in AH.
IF you have any clues or suggestions, I'd really appreciate it.
I didnt have to much trouble setting the views up to my hat. You are aware that you need to go into "Controls" to set up views and hot keys correct?
One thing that helped me was setting the snap-view speed to a faster setting. If you go Start/my computer/c drive/program files/il2 fb/confg and then look there you will find something that says "Hookview speed" or something like that (I am not at home or I could tell you for sure) it is default set at "6" delete the "6" and make it "10". Your snap views will then be 40% faster.
No I do not use trackr. Although when playing IL2 and especially LOMAK it can really help.
Like Dippa said your best resource is the IL2 messege boards. Heres a link IL2 (http://www.pacific-fighters.com/en/home.php?skin=S2)
c yas up.... Dave
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Originally posted by mechanic
oh and all IL2 games are rubbish in comparison to aceshigh in every single aspect.
the terrain looks better for AH, and remember, it is fully modeled to take a ground war not just look good from 10k.
the rgraphics on IL2 are too soft and blurry.
AH is clear, crisp and it feel to me that its pretty geometrically acurate.
someone mentioned that the dots of far planes turn into shapes soon in IL2, but have you never noticed how when it gets to 1000yrds its morphs down a size in pixels to get back scale?
AH is a cartoon in comparison. And your welcome to the 500 player lagfest arena.
Paid a played AH for years, but you know what, it wasnt the game that bored me to tears at the end. It was what the community morphed into over time.
p.s. I like cartoons too.
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Peepz who don't pay should be banned......
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I have played Il2 (FB/AEP/PF) almost everyday since its first beta (stalling that P-39 left and right). I just left a full real (difficulty actually, there is no 'real' in a game) server where there were 58 folks (server limit set at 70 folks but they can set it as high as 150). However, the maps are small compared to AH and on most severs they only enable 2 or 3 fields per side. What you end up, with even with just a 32 man server, is a furball between the airfields.
The so-called 'view system' (what a dumb word) is the same 'system' that was used in these games from time eternal. The exception is "AH". Both AH the IL2 franchise have things that make them great and things that suck.
AH is a great game, so is Il2/FB/AEP/PF (well if you bought stand alone PF I can understand why you hate it). AH and Il2 don't necessarily compete for players. Most of those who bought IL2 and the add-ons would never pay a monthly subscription to play a game. Oleg has said that only 10% of the folks who purchased Il2 play it online.
I have trackIR and have had it since it first came out and have no issues with the views in Il2 (or AH2). If you are having problems mapping your hat within the game just go into your settings (...\IL-2 Sturmovik Forgotten Battles\Users\doe) and edit the text file:
Under snap view and/or pan view (whatever you use or set up both). You can also speed up (or slow down) your head movement speed in snap view by going into the config.ini and and changing this line:
Speed=XXX (under HookView Config)
I don't have a hat mapped and don't recall what the default setting is. However, set X a lower number to speed up head movement, higher to slow it down.
Anyway to each his own...
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Thanks to Nomak and the others who replied. Yes, I had also asked for help on the IL2 boards and ultimately got my answer there.
I have all three games (IL2-FB-PF) installed.
My problem was that I needed to enter all the setting twice in each box to clear out the old ones, otherwise it left two setings in.
I ended up rpogramming the view keys to the number pad, then using the Saitek SST software to assign the views to those keys. Only thing is there is no direct 6 view as in AH, and to go from loking back right to back left, you have to go back thru the front. No cutting accross the back like AH. I know some people claim AH is not 'realistic" in that respect, but it sure makes it easier to track the other a/c at times.
Anyway, now have things set up to a reasonable facsimile of my AH controls, so I don't get too confused when switching between them.
Thanks again to all who posted ideas and help!:aok
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skjohn
you will find that time in pf will improve your aim & hit % in AH