Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Siaf__csf on May 14, 2005, 01:48:05 PM
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Will soon be land of the MPAA/RIAA.
Big money lobbying away your rights. Schweet.
Clickety click (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20050513-4903.html)
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I really don't care what they do. They can't bother my anyway.
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Will soon be land of the MPAA/RIAA.
Big money lobbying away your rights. Schweet.
Clickety click (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20050513-4903.html)
You mean our right to steal and distribute other people's work???
Doesn't matter what they make someone will hack it in a month after its out. Don't sweat it. Thats the least of my rights I am worried about.
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You mean our right to steal and distribute other people's work???
No, the right to record a broadcast TV programme so that you can watch it at a more convient time. (With a video recorder, Tivo, computer or whatever)
The broadcast flag means that the broadcaster gets to decide whether you can record or not.
Hollywood tried a similar challenge to ban video recorders in the early 80s, they lost, but they don't seem to have learned anything from that (they made vast amounts of money out of videos)
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I think the cable networks might have a legitimate gripe, but the broadcast networks need to realize that we (the people) own the frequencies they're using.
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.....and be sure not to tear off the tag on that mattress. :)
Much to do about nothing.
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sciaf... if you spend so much time worrying about our country why don't you just move here or...
better yet.... stop worrying about it and worry about what is going on in your country of lower slobovia... I am sure that there is plenty of bad things going on there to concern you.
lazs
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Nothing bad going on in a socialist workers paradise
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hence you euros are able to concentrate on the one remaining superpower.
lazs
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Originally posted by Nashwan
No, the right to record a broadcast TV programme so that you can watch it at a more convient time. (With a video recorder, Tivo, computer or whatever)
The broadcast flag means that the broadcaster gets to decide whether you can record or not.
When was it a right to record broadcast TV programs?
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Lazs unfortunately the decisions made in the US affect also us in the long run. That's why it's necessary to try to kill the madness at its source.
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siaf... who is "us"? I have no idea if things we do here affect you in lower slobovia or not. You are talking about Americans recording American programs made by American artists. How does that affect you?
lazs
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There's no such thing as a local market anymore lazs. But I don't expect you to understand.
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Originally posted by Sandman
I think the cable networks might have a legitimate gripe, but the broadcast networks need to realize that we (the people) own the frequencies they're using.
Exactly,
fox, abc, cbs, etc have nothing to say about people recording shows from their stations but the cable companies should be able to control what they pay to air.
68Parker
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This judgement is just one step on the way of limiting consumer rights on a global level.
They won't stop there. Soon you'll be forced to verify everything you do through MPAA/RIAA hosts. They'll ask for a permission to scan your computers for copyright materials and delete suspected at will. They'll want to make you pay for each time you listen or access a copyrighted title on your harddrive or through some controlled service.
Thier greed stops at nothing. Even though you've purchased a right to use music titles they'll want to charge you again over it somehow. Online music is already licensed for a limited period only - meaning you pay the standard price to listen to a song but will get your access denied after a period of time if you won't keep feeding RIAA more money.
They've found a superb way to force you, the consumers, into paying payment after payment by lobbying and greasing your congressmen into making laws which give MPAA/RIAA basically a carte blanche on licensing enforcement.
Soon you'll be arrested for whistling a song publicly unless you pay public performance license for it.
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Originally posted by Sandman
I think the cable networks might have a legitimate gripe, but the broadcast networks need to realize that we (the people) own the frequencies they're using.
So since they own the cable... all the programming belongs to the cable company? They can reproduce anything that goes over their cable without any concern for those who produced the programming? I think that is not the case.
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When was it a right to record broadcast TV programs?
"Fair use" has allowed copying parts of copyrighted works for centuries. Making personal use copies of copyrighted works has been ruled legal by the US courts numerous times, but more importantly the supreme court ruled in 1984 that recording TV programmes for personal use and replaying at a later date was legal (that was the case in 1984 when Universal studios tried to ban the home video recorder)
I'm suprised lazs hasn't complained about this. Imposing restrictions on equipment that let people follow legal activities, just because criminals also use them to break the law.
Computers/video recorders/tivos don't break copyright law, people do.
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for those of you who are all for these flags let me throw you a scenerio:
How about the MPAA get in the business of designing manufacturing and distributing consumer electronics......
THEN they can lobby the FCC to regulate them. The fact is they want CONTROL and they no longer have it. Their bottom line $$$$ isn't hurting ONE bit but they want to be involved in the standards that get put on consumer electronics and new technologies.
I tell you what...if the MPAA made a DVD player/VCR/TIVO/MP3 Player NO ONE WOULD BUY IT. The other brands would be much cheaper and have a TON more features!
I'm not advocating anyone steal anything. But for the MPAA to pressure congress to give the FCC regulatory control over consumer electronics is NUTS!
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
So since they own the cable... all the programming belongs to the cable company? They can reproduce anything that goes over their cable without any concern for those who produced the programming? I think that is not the case.
The cable company has a deal with the content provider. The cable company also has a deal with their paying customers. This does not mean that the paying customers have a deal with the content providers. It's a privately owned network transmitted via privately owned hardware.
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who cares, 99% of it is just garbage anyhow.
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In this case they couldn't care less if you tape whatever for later viewing. The whole idea behind it is to force the viewers to see all the advertisements broadcasted.
They want to pump you up with as much commercial junk as humanly possible and the only way to ensure that is to combat technologies that enable the consumers to skip the advertisements.
Next they'll lobby in a law that will force every tv-set owner to spend at least an hour daily in front of commercials, verify watching it through interactive tv or lose the digital viewing license. Lol.
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Recording copywright material has never been a right in the US.
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nashwan... who says I am against people owning equipment? They should be able to own any they want. Using it ilegally is another thing.
If the content of a program is owned by someone and it can be proven that you have no right to make copies of it then I guess the owners are being wronged if you record it. I don't think that they can make that law tho. That would mean that books would have to disintegrate after all the pages had been turned for example.
If the companies put in some sort of flag that made it impossible to record then new recorders would be sold that got rid of the flag. Without a law to back it up the technology is worthless.
As for "global economy" perhaps but.. It is our laws. If you don't vote here then you have only the power of voting with your pocketbook and... impotent screaching against any rumor about American life you hear.
lazs
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Will soon be land of the MPAA/RIAA.
hehe i got some emails from then in past. Im responsible for some public IP address`s so they sometime try to whine.
But what i realy do not understand is, why they are sending email to czech republic with this text. " According to US Law. No.XXXX "
Those idiots have no brain, so just plain FU is what they usualy get from me.
Once they tried to scare me, that they will contact local authorities.
Pitty that they dont use brain at all.
MPAA/RIAA is realy most pathetic group of companies, people i ever saw.
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Originally posted by GScholz
It has been a "right" in the US since forever. There is no law against it. In fact as someone said here, it has been tried in court and found legal.
Is it just me or some Norvegia nameless dude know US laws better that NUKE ? :D
[boooo GScholz drink one beer and forget it please :D ]
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oh...............my.......... ...cod
:eek:
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Let me clue you in on a little something.
Once the cable feed enters your house, they have no say on what you do with it.
Whether it's plugging the coaxial into your ear or making thousands of copies of a certain show. As long as it stays in your house they can't do anything.
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
This judgement is just one step on the way of limiting consumer rights on a global level.
They won't stop there. Soon you'll be forced to verify everything you do through MPAA/RIAA hosts. They'll ask for a permission to scan your computers for copyright materials and delete suspected at will. They'll want to make you pay for each time you listen or access a copyrighted title on your harddrive or through some controlled service.
Thier greed stops at nothing. Even though you've purchased a right to use music titles they'll want to charge you again over it somehow. Online music is already licensed for a limited period only - meaning you pay the standard price to listen to a song but will get your access denied after a period of time if you won't keep feeding RIAA more money.
They've found a superb way to force you, the consumers, into paying payment after payment by lobbying and greasing your congressmen into making laws which give MPAA/RIAA basically a carte blanche on licensing enforcement.
Soon you'll be arrested for whistling a song publicly unless you pay public performance license for it.
ROFLMAO
OK , that does it. I just went to Wally World and bought a case of tinfoil. I have most of the windows done as we speak.
How I can keep the intrusive waves from slipping under the door?
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ROFLMAO
OK , that does it. I just went to Wally World and bought a case of tinfoil. I have most of the windows done as we speak.
How I can keep the intrusive waves from slipping under the door?
What can I say.. ignorance is bliss. Once proved again.
I could explain you how the industry has demanded hardware/software level changes to ALL consumer media devices allowing them full control of anything you view, but I'd be just wasting my time.
Jackals of the world are sheep in MPAA/RIAA/Disney etc. flock.
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
What can I say.. ignorance is bliss. Once proved again.
I could explain you how the industry has demanded hardware/software level changes to ALL consumer media devices allowing them full control of anything you view, but I'd be just wasting my time.
Jackals of the world are sheep in MPAA/RIAA/Disney etc. flock.
Like I said earlier or maybe you just didnt read. Anything like that comes out it will get cracked in a month or less. Many movies imploy similar technology to defeat "back-up" copying, regardless it doesnt matter someone always finds a way in.
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Circumventing language filter
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either you own a copy of it when you buy the right to watch it in your home or you don't. If you buy a DVD you have the right to view it anytime you want or even sell it if you want... All very fair.
It is probly not right for you to make a "backup copy" or twenty.
Is it ok to make a copy of an HBO series say and then give it to your friends after you are done watching it? I don't know... the courts will decide.
nashwan.. you never replied to my reasoning so I will add to it.. Gun manufactureres make firearms and expect you to use it for a lifetime and pass it on or sell it... they don't want a cut every time you shoot it. They don't even care if you work on it (so long as they are not leable). The government is who wants a cut of your shooting or to end it entirely. In the case of the broadcasters.. it is just the oppossite.. the government would be making laws at their behest in order for them to make you pay every time you wanted to use their product.
lazs
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
What can I say.. ignorance is bliss. Once proved again.
Yes it certainly is. You have proved it over and over with your assinine, tinfoil hat posts. Hang in there.
I could explain you how the industry has demanded hardware/software level changes to ALL consumer media devices allowing them full control of anything you view, but I'd be just wasting my time.
Awww hell , go ahead and waste some of yours for a change.
There is nothing that they can do that will effect me in any form or fashion.
I haven`t really ever considered going into the illegal music or video copying business.
Jackals of the world are sheep in MPAA/RIAA/Disney etc. flock.
I believe you have that reversed slick. Like I said it doesn`t effect nor concern me in any form or fashion.
You on the other hand seem to be the one doing the Baaaa Baaa Baaaa routine.
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sholtzie... explain it to me. Are you saying that broadcast programs are not copywrighted?
There is very little here that is "freely broadcast" in that most of us pay for a service to bring it to us. even if you have an antena to pull it out of the air... it is not "free" it is broadcast on the premis that you will listen to their advertisers message.
Sorta like a soup kitchen.. the "free" dinner you get really isn't free... you gotta listen to a little sermon... now, you don't really believe anything is free do you?
lazs
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Like I said earlier or maybe you just didnt read. Anything like that comes out it will get cracked in a month or less. Many movies imploy similar technology to defeat "back-up" copying, regardless it doesnt matter someone always finds a way in.
I guess YOU missed all the bills they're passing right at this moment which aim to make circumventing any copy protection a crime.
That's right, making region free, ad-free, copy free devices all over illegal to sell, market or - own.
Lazs2: Broadcasters pay the royalties during the broadcast. The broadcast is intended to be received by the consumers. Paid in full. The consumer has the right to view this broadcast directly from live stream or by recording it for later use. Everyone has a right to make legal copies of all legally owned media - for his own use.
They're taking your rights away. Next will be your right to bear arms - just see.
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Lazs unfortunately the decisions made in the US affect also us in the long run. That's why it's necessary to try to kill the madness at its source.
Just like someone from some 3rd World Euro Country would say. They biyatch when we don't be the first to donate the most to help their lil pissant lives or biyatch when we take some type of Military action.
:rolleyes:
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Thier greed stops at nothing. Even though you've purchased a right to use music titles they'll want to charge you again over it somehow. Online music is already licensed for a limited period only - meaning you pay the standard price to listen to a song but will get your access denied after a period of time if you won't keep feeding RIAA more money.
They've found a superb way to force you, the consumers, into paying payment after payment by lobbying and greasing your congressmen into making laws which give MPAA/RIAA basically a carte blanche on licensing enforcement.
That's exactly right. The MPAA have control over DVD formats which means they can ban the sale of new DVD players at any time they see fit, meaning you can watch your old DVDs only as long as the player lasts, and if the MPAA decide, you can't buy a new one.
No chance of them cutting off sales now, of course, but in a few years when they want to boost sales of the next new format, DVD players become unavailable, your library of DVD disks unusable, and you get to buy them again on Blu-Ray or whatever format succeeds DVD.
Recording copywright material has never been a right in the US.
Depends how you define a right.
If you take the position that anything is a right if not forbidden by law, then it has been a right since the formation of the US.
Copyright law in the US has always had "fair use" provisions, which allow you to copy copyrighted material for legitimate purposes, which weren't clearly defined for a long time.
But the Supreme Court ruled in 1984 that copying a TV programme for viewing at a later time was legal, US courts have also ruled that making backup copies of music etc is legal, and making a copy on a different format is legal (the case concerned making a cassette copy of an album to play in portable music equipment)
So the law in the US is pretty clear that making a copy for personal use is legal.
nashwan... who says I am against people owning equipment? They should be able to own any they want. Using it ilegally is another thing.
I know that's your stance, I was just suprised you weren't arguing for it in this thread.
If the content of a program is owned by someone and it can be proven that you have no right to make copies of it then I guess the owners are being wronged if you record it. I don't think that they can make that law tho.
That's what they are trying to do with the broadcast flag.
They want to make it a requirement that all equipment capable of recording broadcasts must comply with the broadcast flag, which means it can only record if the broadcaster allows it.
That would mean it's illegal to sell equipment that doesn't meet those requirements.
That would mean that books would have to disintegrate after all the pages had been turned for example.
Copyright has traditionally extended up to sale, and once you've bought a copyrighted work, you can resell it whenever you like. (Books, for example)
The modern trend in copyright is to try to retain copyright even after sale, so that you can't sell the item on after you've bought and used it.
Ebook and music downloads are usually tied to the particular pc they were bought on, and can't be resold afterwards.
If the companies put in some sort of flag that made it impossible to record then new recorders would be sold that got rid of the flag. Without a law to back it up the technology is worthless.
Which is why they are trying to get the law passed.
They tried to do it by the back door, getting the FCC to impose the broadcast flag, and deny FCC approval to any recording equipment that didn't include it (supposed to come in July 2005, overturned by the courts a month ago.)
When the courts ruled the FCC didn't have that power, the MPAA started working on getting the broadcast flag written into law instead.
Like I said earlier or maybe you just didnt read. Anything like that comes out it will get cracked in a month or less.
It's harder to crack hardware. The MPAA and FCC want it built in to every piece of hardware capable of receiving a digital TV broadcast.
either you own a copy of it when you buy the right to watch it in your home or you don't. If you buy a DVD you have the right to view it anytime you want or even sell it if you want... All very fair.
Actually that's not the MPAA's position.
They implemented copy protection on DVDs, only licenced players can decode the copy protection, which means you only have a right to watch the DVD you bought on an MPAA approved player.
Is it ok to make a copy of an HBO series say and then give it to your friends after you are done watching it? I don't know... the courts will decide.
Probably not to give it away, but it is legal to record it and watch it yourself.
Legal, but not possible in the future if the MPAA and FCC get their way.
That's the reason I wondered at your lack of committment to this topic.
It's legal to record a tv programme for your own use, illegal to copy and distribute it.
They are trying to ban the sale of hardware that would allow you to do something perfectly legal (record tv programmes), because it would also allow criminals to do something illegal (distribute tv programmes they have recorded)
There is nothing that they can do that will effect me in any form or fashion.
I haven`t really ever considered going into the illegal music or video copying business.
Have you ever recorded a TV programme to watch at a later date? eg with a video recorder or tivo?
If so, what they are trying to do will affect you.
You might want to tivo the film on Saturday night because you are going out, and plan to watch it on Sunday.
The MPAA don't want you to record the film on Saturday night because they make money from DVD sales as well as selling it to broadcasters, so they set the broadcast record flag to no, and you can't record it.
sholtzie... explain it to me. Are you saying that broadcast programs are not copywrighted?
They are copyrighted. Copyright doesn't mean you can't copy it, though.
(sorry for not replying earlier, lazs, I lost my internet connection for 24 hours)
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Just like someone from some 3rd World Euro Country would say. They biyatch when we don't be the first to donate the most to help their lil pissant lives or biyatch when we take some type of Military action.
Just like tsunami first ones will be hit the worst, we get only the peaceful albeit annoying tides down here.
It's all in your own best interst, but I'm assured now that you're too blind to see it.
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
I guess YOU missed all the bills they're passing right at this moment which aim to make circumventing any copy protection a crime.
That's right, making region free, ad-free, copy free devices all over illegal to sell, market or - own.
They're taking your rights away. Next will be your right to bear arms - just see.
I never said it was going to be legal to copy stuff. I just said its not gonna make a bit of difference because it will not work.
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Oh but it will work, at least for 90% of people who refuse to buy or own illegal devices.
Normal consumers won't even see 'open' devices for sale anywhere and only the underground hobbyists will dare or be able to buy circumvented devices on the illegal market.
Not to mention all issues regarding to guarantees etc. Authorized service companies will refuse to repair 'cracked' hardware let alone do it for free.
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Originally posted by GScholz
There isn't a manmade thing on this planet (and beyond) that isn't copyrighted.
what about the Bible ?
:p
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Not on mine (I checked before posting :))
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well... it is all really very simple.
Who owns the rights to the programs that come into your home? The artist (or who he sold it to) or... you. Did you buy the rights to the program or did you simply buy the right to watch it one specific time.
That is what needs to be answered. And... who is "they" and what are the real reasons? Who would subscribe to HBO or even cable if they had to go by the cable companies schedule.
I can't recall the last time I watched a program that wasn't recorded and.... I wouldn't. I would drop my cable service.
lazs
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Originally posted by GScholz
You asked them?
They don't need to print anything about the copyright. It is a right not a privilege. In fact they would have to specifically waver their rights for you to be able to legally use their work beyond "fair use".
I don't think it will be possible to have a discussion on this subject with the people who have printed my copy.
I did look closely but I've not seen any phone number.
It doesn't really surprise me as my bible has been printed in 1764 :D
I admit I cheated a bit :p
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Oh but it will work, at least for 90% of people who refuse to buy or own illegal devices.
Normal consumers won't even see 'open' devices for sale anywhere and only the underground hobbyists will dare or be able to buy circumvented devices on the illegal market.
Not to mention all issues regarding to guarantees etc. Authorized service companies will refuse to repair 'cracked' hardware let alone do it for free.
keep on dreamin. You have no evidence to back up any of that. That is just your opinion. And its an opinion from Europe. When was the last time you lived in America again?
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So you think that if they will approve the law nobody will follow it? lol.
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
So you think that if they will approve the law nobody will follow it? lol.
The laws they passed here regarding trading of music/movies online has done absolutely nothing...I see no reason why this would be any different.
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That law didn't bide any commercial suppliers or manufacturers. It affects nobody's shopping.
This law will, big time. It will be ILLEGAL to sell hardware which circumvents the technology.
A bit same as if all computers would become illegal to sell unless they have a built-in hardware lock for p2p.
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Wheeeeew doggies. :)
Laz, is lower Slovinia anywhere near Putzwania?
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Not gonna happen... you will continue to be able to record all the great American shows there in lower slobovia.
Who is "they"? seems like there are a lot of people involved with the whole thing... Artists, broadcasters... equiment manufacturers... Lot more people involved than just the consumer.
lazs
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Originally posted by Jackal1
Wheeeeew doggies. :)
Laz, is lower Slovinia anywhere near Putzwania?
For all your ridiculing of what some of these guys are saying I think you'd be quite suprised at how much is true. For example, the RIAA does want to move to a per device license on music. IE should you buy an MP3 sound track for your MP3 player, you cannot use it on a different Mp3 player, or any other music player. For each playback device you will need to buy a seperate license.
They have even talked about a per play charge on music as well. Embedding a counter into digital audio tracks that music players increment to keep count of plays.
And of course all this will require hardware, which they have to approve, and will push up costs and so on.
Go and do a search on cnet.com for riaa, dig back through the articles. Its quite scary what they try to get passed into law.
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Originally posted by Vulcan
For all your ridiculing of what some of these guys are saying I think you'd be quite suprised at how much is true.
LOL Ridiculing! I like that. :) Sheesh.
For example, the RIAA does want to move to a per device license on music. IE should you buy an MP3 sound track for your MP3 player, you cannot use it on a different Mp3 player, or any other music player. For each playback device you will need to buy a seperate license.
Wrong! MP3 player? LMAO. It will be a cold day in hell when I pay for an MP3 player.
They have even talked about a per play charge on music as well. Embedding a counter into digital audio tracks that music players increment to keep count of plays.
" They" seem to talk about a lot of stuff. Who cares?
And of course all this will require hardware, which they have to approve, and will push up costs and so on.
"They " will not push up any costs as far as I`m concerned.
Go and do a search on cnet.com for riaa, dig back through the articles. Its quite scary what they try to get passed into law.
Strange as it seems, I am not at all frightened.
Like I have said earlier, there is nothing they can do that will effect me in any form nor fashion.
Bet you left the tag on the matress, huh? :)
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As previously said, all the jackals of this planet enable bad things to happen. They're living in thier little cocoon and false illusions of being safe from anything further than thier own back yards which they can protect with thier handguns.
The US people have the unique opportunity now to alter the history and combat these oppressive notions. Contact your congressmen for your own good. Do not let the corporations enslave you.
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Hehe, yes, contact your Congress person and make sure you have a big, fat, check ready for them as that is the only way they are going to listen to you.
Corporations enslave us? That is just flat out hilarious. You are only be a slave to them if you do not have the will power to walk away from them. If your life depends on beind able to get your music 'fix' then you have made the choice to be controlled by them.
You have made the choice to empower these entities and just because you have done so, does not mean others have not.
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
As previously said, all the jackals of this planet enable bad things to happen.
Bwaaahaahahhhaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
I`m a Bad, Bad man.
:rofl
The US people have the unique opportunity now to alter the history and combat these oppressive notions. Contact your congressmen for your own good. Do not let the corporations enslave you.
ROFLMAO
I think this cat is running for office in Slovinia.
Power to the people.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Corporations enslave us? That is just flat out hilarious. You are only be a slave to them if you do not have the will power to walk away from them.
Too bad that majority of the people are just sheeps, lead by the shephards.
Those who aren't sheeps, will suffer because of the sheeps.
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Sorry... didn't realize that NZ and lower slobovia was so dependant on American music and machines to play it that every little threat on their free playing/viewing of it rips the fabric of their very existence..
skyzzy is correct... vote with your wallet. Regular TV too full of comercials? quit watching it. That is why they are in trouble... Can't stand regular radio? get satallite.
Can't record HBO? then dump the service. MP3? who cares? they never had me and when they lose NZ and lower slobovia they won't be able to give the crap away.
In the end...They will take any profit over no profit. If they play hardball someone will step in to fill the vacumn.
"they"... who the hell is "they"?
lazs
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Yea Laz, but load that handgun and help me watch the "back yard" just in case. :)
Someone has to help. I can`t lead everyone to toal destruction without some assistance.
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wow... fishu... that was really profound and woke me up....
us sheep not listening to or recording mp3's are really ruining it for you rugged individualists hanging on every new release.
ooops.. this would probly be a good place to put in a "my bad" just to show how unsheep like I am becomeing.
lazs
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Heh I can see how and why the corporations can buy out your freedom.
You're right, it's really not affecting me so much but one would think that at least you would care, since it _will_ directly affect all your lives.
I'm left to wait to see if the bill gets passed and anxious to see the following whine tsunami lol.
Hey they might even make the bill so broad that they illegalize AHFILM too in the process.. wouldn't that be cool?
Yes, it has happened before..
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The boogie man comin to get ya.
:rofl
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
You're right, it's really not affecting me so much but one would think that at least you would care, since it _will_ directly affect all your lives.
Yes, it has happened before..
1)It's not gonna affect me or anyone else with an ounce of computer sense. DRM for example is one case of the "protection" they use. Its really laughable if you know how to use google.
2)When? Where? What?
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When somebody on these BB talks about "Its not affecting people who can use computers" they mean "It doesen affect people who are willing to spend 5 hours straight to circumvent copyprotections"
Circumventing hardware locks are very different issue than circumventing some software protections. Hardware locks can be made very robust and they cannot be copied over internet; you need hacked hardware to get it work. It might be hard to find that piece of hardware if it was made illegal?
Everything man made can be unmade, but when the effort is constantly increasing there will be time when you just leave it alone and say "sheeeeesh". Thats when organizations like RIAA will start to do funny things in your pockets whether you like it or not.
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Originally posted by Tuomio
When somebody on these BB talks about "Its not affecting people who can use computers" they mean "It doesen affect people who are willing to spend 5 hours straight to circumvent copyprotections"
Circumventing hardware locks are very different issue than circumventing some software protections. Hardware locks can be made very robust and they cannot be copied over internet; you need hacked hardware to get it work. It might be hard to find that piece of hardware if it was made illegal?
Everything man made can be unmade, but when the effort is constantly increasing there will be time when you just leave it alone and say "sheeeeesh". Thats when organizations like RIAA will start to do funny things in your pockets whether you like it or not.
5 hours? guess your not one of those people who I was talking about then.
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Skuzzy, lazs, jackal, how do you feel about paying a tax to help fight music piracy on every bit of computer and audio-video equipment you buy in the future?
Think about it... if you can't get my point then you don't understand the subject of this thread as much as you think you do.
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Originally posted by lazs2
us sheep not listening to or recording mp3's are really ruining it for you rugged individualists hanging on every new release.
Sorry, I don't trade MP3's.. and of the few 99% are freeware.
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Originally posted by Vulcan
Skuzzy, lazs, jackal, how do you feel about paying a tax to help fight music piracy on every bit of computer and audio-video equipment you buy in the future?
Think about it... if you can't get my point then you don't understand the subject of this thread as much as you think you do.
What does that have to do with anything? If it is going to happen, then it is going to happen and there is not one damn thing that can be done to stop it.
How you chose to react to it is another matter.
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My opinion.....
I'd love to be able to put a flash card in my Tivo and transfer a movie and then play it on another TV in the house
If the MPAA/RIAA had their way this would not be possible.
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Originally posted by Vulcan
Skuzzy, lazs, jackal, how do you feel about paying a tax to help fight music piracy on every bit of computer and audio-video equipment you buy in the future?
Think about it... if you can't get my point then you don't understand the subject of this thread as much as you think you do.
I think if anyone is planning on quitting their day job and living off the amount of tax on these items from me, then they better like beans. :)
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exactly... what will happen is that they will get less money from me. If the pirates are the only users then they will figure a way to get around it. I, on the other hand, will simply not bother to buy their product unless it is really something I want.
I don't ***** and moan because the DVD I want of a movie is 10-20 bucks nor do I go into full criminal mode trying to figure out a way to steal it or cry because my hardware won't let me.. If I want the movie I will buy it if not... who cares?
I have too damn many DVD's as it is.
All the programs I record? Hell, I record over em next time. If I can't watch a TV program without commercials.... I won't watch it.
lazs
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and vulcan... you seem perfectly happy with punishing everyone for the criminal acts of a very tiny minority when it comes to guns but are outraged when the majority is punished for the criminal acts of many concerning your precious tv and mp3 stuff..
I would say that the criminals in the latter media outnumber firearms criminals on a ten to one per capita basis at a minumum.. the theft and criminal activity is rampant.
lazs
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If I can't watch a TV program without commercials.... I won't watch it.
According to the MPAA, technology to enable people to skip adverts is theft, and they've already stopped the production of one recorder that offered the feature.
From the legal action launched against the makers of "ReplayTV":
"Plaintiffs bring this action to obtain preliminary and permanent relief against an unlawful plan by defendants to arm their customers with -- and continuously assist them in using -- unprecedented new tools for violating plaintiffs’ copyright interests in the programming they supply to various television distribution services, including their own program services. Defendants’ unlawful scheme, which is centered on a new device called a “ReplayTV 4000,” seeks to profit from two novel methods of violating plaintiffs’ rights. First, defendants enable, assist, and induce their ReplayTV 4000 customers to make unauthorized digital copies of plaintiffs’ copyrighted television programming for the purpose of -- at the touch of a button -- viewing the programming with all commercial advertising automatically deleted. (Defendants offer essentially this same feature on another device, a new analog videocassette recorder (“VCR”) called the “DDV2120.”) This unlawful activity harms the potential market for and value of plaintiffs’ copyrighted works because commercial advertising is a crucial (and often the sole) means by which plaintiffs receive payment for such programming. "
and vulcan... you seem perfectly happy with punishing everyone for the criminal acts of a very tiny minority when it comes to guns but are outraged when the majority is punished for the criminal acts of many concerning your precious tv and mp3 stuff..
I would say that the criminals in the latter media outnumber firearms criminals on a ten to one per capita basis at a minumum.. the theft and criminal activity is rampant.
This is what I can't understand about your position, lazs.
You are against controls on guns, because as well as being used to murder people, guns are used for legitimate purposes.
Yet you don't seem to apply the same criteria to devices that enable you to record TV (for example).
Now, personally, I'd say 1 murder outweighs rather a lot of pirate mp3s being swapped, and 10,000+ a year outweigh the swapping of mp3s altogether.
So if someone potentially recording a TV programme instead of buying a DVD justifies restricting everyone's ability to record TV, shouldn't someone potentially shooting someone else restrict the availability of guns?
Or is someone recording a TV programme illegally really worse than murder, therefore justifying stricter control on video recorders than guns?
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Originally posted by Nashwan
According to the MPAA, technology to enable people to skip adverts is theft, and they've already stopped the production of one recorder that offered the feature.
From the legal action launched against the makers of "ReplayTV":
"Plaintiffs bring this action to obtain preliminary and permanent relief against an unlawful plan by defendants to arm their customers with -- and continuously assist them in using -- unprecedented new tools for violating plaintiffs’ copyright interests in the programming they supply to various television distribution services, including their own program services. Defendants’ unlawful scheme, which is centered on a new device called a “ReplayTV 4000,” seeks to profit from two novel methods of violating plaintiffs’ rights. First, defendants enable, assist, and induce their ReplayTV 4000 customers to make unauthorized digital copies of plaintiffs’ copyrighted television programming for the purpose of -- at the touch of a button -- viewing the programming with all commercial advertising automatically deleted. (Defendants offer essentially this same feature on another device, a new analog videocassette recorder (“VCR”) called the “DDV2120.”) This unlawful activity harms the potential market for and value of plaintiffs’ copyrighted works because commercial advertising is a crucial (and often the sole) means by which plaintiffs receive payment for such programming. "
Basically my understanding is Hollywood used threat of millions of dollars worth of litigation to get the commercial skipping feature removed.
A new product by a different manufacturer is coming on the scene and is fully upgradable and moddable to whatever the individual wants.
http://wired-vig.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,59690,00.html
Unlike TiVo or ReplayTV, the Telly is designed to be easily upgraded and expanded by the consumer and third-party software developers. Most other set-top boxes are expressly designed not to be hacked, and their warranties are voided if the owner opens them up to tinker.
By contrast, the Telly is expandable like a PC. Consumers can add bigger hard drives, more memory or even swap out the motherboard. In most cases, the machine automatically detects and configures itself to run the new hardware.
"We wanted a box that could grow, that would not be locked down with storage or any particular technology," said Interact-TV CEO Ken Fuhrman.
The Telly automatically records TV shows, and can pause and rewind live TV. Programming information is provided over the Net through a free subscription service.
$900 but watch the price come down as hollywood keeps up this bs.
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nashwan... you make no sense. The quote of the law said nothing about me fast forwarding commercials...it simply said that to make hardware that intentionaly skipped content of a broadcast was illegal.
on the guns subject you appear to concede my point that per capita there are a lot more lawbreakers in media than firearms... you go off on a tangent on the seriousness of the crimes which.... is true.. murder is more seious than financial ruin but.... you leave out the flip side. The fact that guns prevent millions of crimes a year so... their seriousness of crime is more than balanced out by their seriousness of preventing crime...
How does copying matterial for free benifiet anyone?
Gun manufacturers don't want people copying their design either.
other than the fact that they criminal users are causeing more and more restrictions on the law abiding... there is no comparrison between guns and media copy... yet... you guys seem content to restrict firearms from the vast majority of law abiding citizens through strictly govermental means and at the same time have a hissy fit when the criminal acts of a huge group of consumers force the media industry to restrict their own goods.
unbelievably hypocritical. Like all the ban everything you don't like crowd... you are happy as little clams till it is your ox being gored.
lazs
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How does copying matterial for free benifiet anyone?
Maybe it can save someones life if a mentally unstable person gets his tivoed fix of 'young and restless' and therefore avoids flipping out on a gun rampage.
As usual you have a tunnel vision driven by your own motivations lazs. It's growingly clear that all your comments are self motivated and egocentric. You think nobody else should have different interests whether it's guns or recording tv shows in question.
The world is not about you however. There are millions of people who do want to make backup copies for thier own use and/or record tv for later viewing. It's 100% legit (so far) and everyones right. Logically so.
I hope that next MPAA will drive legislation to ban cheap 50-box ammo and self loading equipment because they're featured in so many movies. That will get lazs on the run. :lol
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I am motivated by self interest? Look at your thread man. You are the one who is upset because you can't steal intelectual content not I.
I don't care what the owners of the content do with it... they can sell it or they can give it away... it is their decision not the decision of the thieves like yourself.
I have no problem with people recording a copy of something and then viewing it later. This seems very minor and I bet the media people have no problem with it either. Seems fine to me and I doubt that these are who "they" are going after.
DVD's go for anywere from $5-25... big deal How many do you need? No one is "banning" anything... they are simply telling manufacturers that they can't make equipment to conterfiet. How does that have anything to do with guns or ammo? I don't want to make conterfiet guns or ammo. The Ammo I make is either much different from factory ammo or uses componets bought from the ammo manufacturers themselves or.... both.
There would be no reason for the ammo manufacturers to want to ban my reloading... My hobby makes them money.
In media... your conterfieting hobby costs them money... you are not creating anything you are simply stealing what someone eslse created. If they feel that is ok then it is ok with me.
If they say I can't record programs then I will probly cut wathing programs to allmost nothing... it is very low now... maybe half a dozen hours a month and then mostly as background noise or because someone else in the house is watching.
Still... they would not want to lose my bussiness of buying cable or equipment and lose the off chance that they/thier sponsors can sell me something.... At least I wouldn't think so.
scia.... what is it that you are upset about? do you really think that there will be no more recorders available? Do you really think that "they" want less people to consume em or watch "survivor" even if it was recorded?
the only benifet I can see to your theft is that in lower slobovia when you by a recorder or two the GNP of your "country" goes up 10% or so.
lazs
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I have no problem with people recording a copy of something and then viewing it later. This seems very minor and I bet the media people have no problem with it either.
This shows that you don't even understand what this thread is about and thus what you're talking about.
By the way lazs, lower slobovia has both more cell phones, broad band connections and whatnot compared to US per capita. You're behind.
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
This shows that you don't even understand what this thread is about and thus what you're talking about.
Actualy I believe it shows that the only clue you have is... It was the butler. Other than that you`re lost.
By the way lazs, lower slobovia has both more cell phones, broad band connections and whatnot compared to US per capita. You're behind
Well then, there ya go. You shouldn`t be leaning and depending on the U.S. recording industry and it`s laws. No music industry there? Anything that doesn`t depend on the U.S. ?
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Are you really that thick jackal? Sorry I should know better.
The Butler says the industry is trying to ban people from making _any_ copies for whatever use. Lazs' post showed that he doesn't understand the simple fact.
And Jackal doesn't understand that the world isn't full of closed boxes. What happens in China affect the global market, what happens in US affects the global market. What gets passed in one country, the money will try to pass in other countries too.
Give the devil the little finger.. etc.
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And again, why even talk about it? You really think it will make any difference? And what is the big deal again?
You work for an assumption which is incorrect. The last album I bought was on vinyl. I do not own, nor never will, an MP3 player. I do not have a single new digital audio recording of any kind, except the ones I made from my vinyl albums.
Now, it would be trivial for me to get rid of my satellite connection and forget about broadcast anything. I would stick to watching DVD's exclusively. If they make it where I cannot watch my DVD's, then I get rid of the TV (need more space in the living room anyways) and be just as happy.
My life does not revolve around these optional items. Quite frankly, I hope they do it. It would give me even more time for the hobbies I do love (woodworking, RC flying/building...).
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
The Butler says the industry is trying to ban people from making _any_ copies for whatever use. Lazs' post showed that he doesn't understand the simple fact.
Then the butler needs to take you for a little stroll and explain a few things. For example, it is up to you whether or not you buy into this program and the fact that if you are so dependent on this one, little , insignificant thing, then you have a real problem and the world has lot`s of surprises for you.
And Jackal doesn't understand that the world isn't full of closed boxes. What happens in China affect the global market, what happens in US affects the global market. What gets passed in one country, the money will try to pass in other countries too.
What Jackal DOES understand is that I don`t get all hammered out of shape over "proposed" laws passed in another country.
I also understand that such laws are usualy squashed if there is enough of the public against them.
I also understand that "money" is not money and carries no weight with anyone if it cuts it`s own throat.
I also understand that if DVD copying, yea or ney, was this important to me, then I would be looking my life over real closely.
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sciaf... it is you who don't understand my post.. I said that "I" meaning me personally, don't have any problem with people recording a show and watching it later. I also said that the industry probly will allways allow that.
As for lower slobovia... post a link..
I find it hard to believe that you all sit around on the internet and your cell phones and none of you can make any artistic content... that you are so dependant on the U.S. Maybe it is just that we have such good land line phones.
Besides... what do you do with all your stolen media? My guess is that most of it is just trash that you will end up throwing away later anyway after having to drag it around for years. I mean... What are you gonna do with the first two seasons of "survivor"?
lazs