Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => King of the Hill => Topic started by: Midnight on May 16, 2005, 11:46:59 AM
-
It's been a while since I flew in KOTH, but I have seen some complaints about altitude limit violations. I have a suggestion that maybe could help clarify who is violating and also deter the violators from continuing the practice.
Edit the terrain used to incorporate several dozen 88mm guns placed all around the bottom of the bowl. Set the low limit firing altitude of the guns to 12K (or whatever the KOTH limit is).
That way, anyone going above the ceiling altitude will be instantly fired upon by MANY 88mm puffy ack which will 1. let everyone know that the player violated the altitude limit and may inflict serious damage to that player's aircraft (as we all know how 88mm tends to be so nasty in AH)
-
I like it!:aok
I wonder if the terrain team can support it... I don't think it's settable by a hosting CM...
I'll have to read the CM Setup guide and play with a few settings to see...
-
Change the altititude back to 8k or maybe no alt cap once engaged. BigMax said he wanted to not restrict the type of fight we could fight. This is suppose to be about fighting, and I think that no alt cap though it would allow for running would make it more interesting. Like you said this is a vast furball and we do need more options in alt.
vlkyrie1
-
In my opinion 6k is the perfect alt for KoTH
And still with the alt cap at 6k there were still many cherry pickers, but deffinatly not as bad as the 8k alt cap was
There were way too many complaints about cherry pickers with the alt cap at 8k, let alone what it would be like with no alt cap, so I say leave it at 6k from now on
-
Originally posted by Jish102
In my opinion 6k is the perfect alt for KoTH
And still with the alt cap at 6k there were still many cherry pickers, but deffinatly not as bad as the 8k alt cap was
There were way too many complaints about cherry pickers with the alt cap at 8k, let alone what it would be like with no alt cap, so I say leave it at 6k from now on
I second thy motion, and btw who won last night? I woke up at midnight, from having to work all day long. hate I missed it!
6K alt is most excellent choice!!!!
-
If the CMs put in a 200mph wind shear at 6,001 feet and up, I figure we'd know pretty quick who violated the ceiling. :rolleyes: :lol
W~
-
Wind shear doesn't work. I accidently went to 7k when we were still seperating before fight was called on. I immediatly dropped to 5.5k before fight was on. So what I am saying is the wind doesn't work.
-
Originally posted by MwDogg
Wind shear doesn't work. I accidently went to 7k when we were still seperating before fight was called on. I immediatly dropped to 5.5k before fight was on. So what I am saying is the wind doesn't work.
not trying to pick on you Dogg, but if you went above the alt cap ( if it was 6k ) you should have bailed regardless if FIGHT ON was called or not,
as for Wind Shear or Wind Speed, everytime I have encountered it, it will take you up and in a hurry at that. maybe the Wind shear level was still at 8k and not whatever alt you guys was calling the alt cap.
if you break the alt cap barrier and are able to get your nose down instantly then you have a good chance of not being sucked to the stratosphere, but if you do not get your nose pointed below the horizon you can be assured you are going for a ride straight up!
-
Originally posted by TequilaChaser
and btw who won last night?
ManeTMP won it last night, well fought victory
-
A casual two cents on the topic.
You always have to think about the boundry we set and how it limits your available maneuvers.
You don't fly around at 10 feet altitude and expect to have the full range of maneuvers at hand. You limit your maneuvers yourself by flying that low.
Similar to the radar circle. You can't fly at the edge of it and have every maneuver at hand. You limit your turns to one direction only, toward the center of the circle, by flying at the edge.
Same thing applies to the altitude cap. You fly at 5,999' with a 6,000 cap you limit your own maneuvering by deceiding to fly that close to the cap.
-
Originally posted by Jish102
ManeTMP won it last night, well fought victory
Awesome, congrats Mr. ManeTMP
-
Unfort. at this time, the CM's are not able to adjust what alt the 88's can start firing. I have emailed Skuzzy about it, and am waiting his response.
One thing I'll go post in the CM Terrain forum is if we can make a KOTH terrain that is 3k under sea lvl. My logic is that 88's shoot from 3k up, if we start at 3k under, that would be 6k alt, the alt cap for KOTH.
Having watched almost every round of this past KOTH in CMI mode, I have to say there WAS alot less b/z than in the usual KOTH. I liked the 6k cap, and feel it needs to stay 6k.
Post your opinions yes or no on 6k, so fuzeman and I can make a decision on it. But it SEEMS like the 6k is going to stay, but it's open to debate.
-
You all say you like every kind of fight but you take away the bnz. BNZ cant happen with this 6k top alt cap and a 5k cruise cap. If you want that 6k cap your either unskillful in the bnz or a dweeb who wants to do nothing except turn fight. To lower the cap would be an injustice of grave propotion to those of us who fly exclusively in the bnz. If you cant handel a Bnz fight dont come to koth. Either the cruise alt limit comes down 3k and the 6k remains or the 5k cruise remains and we go back to the old 8k cap. Fights in the vertical were a lot better with the 8k zoom cap. I respected the alt cap this month I seriously doubt I will do so again next month if i do show up. And if I do someone will have to watch and possibly eject me because I have zero respect for it. Its and idiotic rule that must be changed for any decent fight to remain above the "Arcade Level". Either you like ACM at its finest or you don't. And if Fuzeman and Wmlute have thier way you wont have any real ACM as it will all be Arcade play. Get out your quarters.
My 25 cents for those who won't like it
Vlkyrie1
-
well there is one opinion,
I done said I prefer the 6k alt cap, and I do not see where one would not be able to use the bnZ tactic if one had to fly with 6k alt cap. Unless he needs a 3k leeway to extend in the vertical ever time he pounced on 2 or 3 guys mixing it up.......if you can't fly BnZ style with a limited alt cap, then you might want to brush up on your BnZ technique a bit more...........
TC
The Damned
-
further more, if you want to come into this forum for KOTH and blantantly say you will break the rules if they are set against your wishes, be best if you did not show up at all.......we do not want that type of player in KOTH.....to much of a childish whine......want some cheese?
TC
The Damned
-
Half the battle of running a smoothe KOTH is PLAYER compliance of the rules and this is the ONLY part where being a good sport is involved.
If every Tom, Dick or Harry is going to skirt and loophole every rule in a fight then we'll need a ratio if 1:1 with CMs and players.
Wont happen!
Maybe we can have another competition called WOTH. I'll let you figure it out.
That isn't directed at any specific individual.
Also, THIS is the place for the discussion.
Not in the MA, CT, TA, DA or SEA.
-
TC take a year off get away from the arcade and then go to college and take physics. Once your done with that then go to flight school and learn how to fly. What you say about BnZ does not make any sense. If you had any skill at all you would want a cap at 8k. I think your going to win so maybe for go the skill route and head back to your arcade.
Vlkyire1
-
Valkyrie, ask just about anyone and they will tell you I am a BnZ fighter 90% of the time as I fly the P-51D about 99.9% of the time. That said, I flew friday and was able to BnZ plenty of times.
I'll agree that with a 6K limit, you can't zoom-climb if your fight started at anything above 4K, but most of the fights are below 2K, so it really is not a problem.
The rule I have a gripe about is the 60 second rule, but I'll go into that in another thread.
-
Not the opening fight they always start at 5k. Thats why we always had that 8k cap. Just put the 8k cap back in and we will get this over with much faster.
Vlkyrie1
-
Originally posted by Valkyrie
TC take a year off get away from the arcade and then go to college and take physics. Once your done with that then go to flight school and learn how to fly. What you say about BnZ does not make any sense. If you had any skill at all you would want a cap at 8k. I think your going to win so maybe for go the skill route and head back to your arcade.
Vlkyire1
:rofl
lemming,
I think Midnight proved my point, , thanks Midnight :aok
Mr. Scholar man with ya physics escapade, I finished physics back in 1986 for your information, and I have no skill, just ask everyone on these boards.... when you want some lessons on how to go about fighting in different situations give me a holler......cheers!
-
Originally posted by Valkyrie
Not the opening fight they always start at 5k. Thats why we always had that 8k cap. Just put the 8k cap back in and we will get this over with much faster.
Vlkyrie1
btw....before the 8k alt cap, if my memory serves me correctly it was 6k alt cap to begin with......but my hair is turning grey and I am growing old, so my memory may be failing me as well.......
still though, Vlkyrie1, if you are going to blantantly come on these boards and state that if the rules do not fit your wishes you will break them / ignore them and if you get ejected then so be it. Why even show up with that type of atitude? we all abide by the rules set forth by the KOTH CM and we all have enough dignity to .ef if we cross the border of any rule set forth.
please show up next friday at 3pm est Vlkyrie1, I want you to show me how great your SKILZ are, I am just a lowly arcade player who has nothing to back up my words, SHOW ME SHOW ME SHOW ME, PLEASE! I want to be like Vlkyrie1 he is the l33t pile-it......
-
Email is Schancell@aol.com. Please send me a note during the week I would love to head to the DA for a few.
Vlkyrie1
-
Koth used to be so civil what have you people done to it in my 3 month absence besides drop the cieling?
Vlkyrie1
-
if you want to go a few in the DA is ok with me, wonder what your earlier gameid was if you have been gone 3 months. I been flying KOTHs off and on for last 2 or 3 years and do not recall a Vlkyrie1 ever, but as I mentioned earlier my mind slips from time to time
you can email me thru my profile, if you really want to go a few rounds in the DA for giggles, but don't get upset if you beat me in every match in the DA, I am not a dueling type person......
TC
The Damned
-
let's keep this civil gents.
I am one of them flyers that both b/z and mixes it up. I always tried to fly "smart" in a koth. If I had alt/e, I would keep it. Some have called me timid for that, others know that I love to knife fight and enjoy a good turn and burn. I've done plenty of both.
In past KOTH's, we had a 6k cruise, 8k zoom rule. The problem was we had many players skirting that. As a CM in God's eye, we can't tell who's 6k and who's 8k, so it is VERY hard to enforce.
We are here to DISCUSS the alt rule, not bash each other.
KOTH is about fighting. I agree that on the initial merge, most pilots are 5-6k, and one can't b/z. I ALSO know that when it was 8k, most pilots were 7-8k and again, one couldn't b/z. I don't see a huge differance between 6-8k from a b/z perspective on that initial merge. I don't understand why Valkyre is upset. No matter WHAT we set the alt cap to, on that initial merge, most pilots will be as close to that cap as possible, thus makin' b/z not a vialble option on the INITIAL merege. Also most fights DO end up 2k and down. From a boom and zoom perspective, a 3-4k alt advantage is plenty.
Again tho', this is not a fixed rule yet, and we are here to discuss it, so let's DISUSS the rule.
-
First it was a 5k cruise limit before with a high cap of 8k. We always had one or two people who didn't honor it but almost everyone else did. The reason I am so against 6k is I always climb on the merge and it completly takes me out of my game to have to do a nose high turn at the merge. The 5k-8k alt system was perfect before and should not have been tampered with. 8k left you with all kinds of options. 6k doesn't. 8k worked great for years, 6k so far this time really sucked for all envolved. I want a BnZ fight right from the start not afterward. If its like that I will avoid contact skirting the 60 sec rule following the letter not the spirt of the law until later in the koth when I have my merge 3k below the cap. Call me timid but I try to not fight anything except a BnZ as its all I do in the MA.
The real bottom line is a 5k cruise and 6k max cap is unfair to BnZ. Basically means everyone is angle fighting which in my opinion is the lowest form ACM requireign the least skill. Please change this back to the old rules where no one complained about the cap.
Vlkyrie1
-
ROFL, least skill? BnZ is the least skill in my opinion.
-
Originally posted by MwDogg
ROFL, least skill? BnZ is the least skill in my opinion.
BnZ and TnB both require skills, I dont consider either skill set superior to the other, just different.
-
Originally posted by Valkyrie
First it was a 5k cruise limit before with a high cap of 8k. We always had one or two people who didn't honor it but almost everyone else did. The reason I am so against 6k is I always climb on the merge and it completly takes me out of my game to have to do a nose high turn at the merge. The 5k-8k alt system was perfect before and should not have been tampered with. 8k left you with all kinds of options. 6k doesn't. 8k worked great for years, 6k so far this time really sucked for all envolved. I want a BnZ fight right from the start not afterward. If its like that I will avoid contact skirting the 60 sec rule following the letter not the spirt of the law until later in the koth when I have my merge 3k below the cap. Call me timid but I try to not fight anything except a BnZ as its all I do in the MA.
The real bottom line is a 5k cruise and 6k max cap is unfair to BnZ. Basically means everyone is angle fighting which in my opinion is the lowest form ACM requireign the least skill. Please change this back to the old rules where no one complained about the cap.
Vlkyrie1
The question at hand is if we want 6k or 8k. We are not doing a "cruise" and a "zoom" alt. Whatever we go with will the THE alt cap. You break it, you .ef. I still don't quite understand your argument of 6k vs. 8k. Like I already said, what ever the max alt is, when FIGHT ON is called, everybody is at that max alt, be it 6k or 8k. You don't HAVE the option to nose up and climb on the merge if you fly right at the max alt.. All your opponents are co alt with you, at the max alt, so I dont' see how 6k or 8k is any different when the round starts.
Are you asking for a "cruise" and a "max" alt then? Because that isn't going to happen. I'm still waiting for more people to chime in on what they prefer as a max alt, 6k or 8k. The upcoming EuroKOTH this Friday is going to be 6k, and we'll see how that works out. Me and fuzeman will decide what alt we feel is best and let everyone know for the June KOTH's, and we will base that on what everybody wants.
So come on you KOTH'rs, chime in. Do you like 6k or 8k?
(edit. someone help me here. how long has it been since we had cruise/zoom alts. been well over a year if not closer to two hasn't it?)
-
Well the right rules make a whole lot of difference. I haven't flown a koth yet this year I assumed we still had the 5k cruise rule in effect. Had flown so many I didn't even think to check for changes. My fault and appologies the right info changes things alot.
Vlkyire1
-
Yep, it's been a long time since we had seperate cruise and max altitudes. I honestly didn't notice any change in the 6k or 8k alt cap.
Of course I was dying pretty soon when I did choose to fly a round.
And I officially say it did not 'suck' for me.
That shoots down the incorrect statement of "8k worked great for years, 6k so far this time really sucked for all envolved." Looking at the previous posts again I actually see 2 for 6k and 1 against. Lute's vote and mine make it 4-1, even though it's your opinion and not ours that will deceide it.
Anytime you say 'all' 'nobody' 'never' or 'always' you pretty much shoot your self in the foot. There is usually an exception.
I only notice one person really whining about the 6k altitude, Valkyre1. I do see others offering opinioins or suggestions on it.
I also think someone in the H2H arenas has a KOTH type event, maybe you should try that.
http://www.flyaceshigh.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=151062
-
Like I said before I believe 6k is the PERFECT alt for KoTH. Valkyrie if you think many whine about the 6k cap more than the 8k cap, where have you been? I also like to b/z sometimes, but I am mostly a t/b pilot, and I believe there are more t/b'rs in KoTH than b/z'rs, therefore giving a little more action to t/b pilots, but not taking anything away from b/z pilots.
If you like to climb straight up on the merge, fly 1 or 2ks below the cap and pull up under the enemy, they will not have many options but to turn if you have enough speed. If you can't do that, maybe you should touch up on your t/b skills.
-
I don't have any complaints now that I know there is no cruise alt and just the max. Like I said I haven't read the rules in years. I just showed up for 5 or 6 rounds then left after an hour or so. Just assumed that the rules remained constant. Message traffic to me didn't look like it had changed so I thought the rules haden't either. My mistake.
Vlkyrie1
-
open apology to Vlkyrie1, I invisioned your first couple of responses as another Shane wanabe.............
if ya still want to do the DA drop me an email......if you want to work on different tactics BnZ, TnB, SA,
E Fighting as wellin the TA or DA, the offer is still always open to anyone and everyone!
I usually am getting online around 9pm est or later at this current time......
-
Valkyrie1, I also came down sort of hard, apologies.
This may have a good result, we could possibly add a note in the MOTD when the last rule change or clarification was made.
That way you look at the last change date and you would have a better idea if you really needed to go over the MOTD again.
Of course the Host usually goes over it beforehand so it might be redundant. It's an idea though and I'll bring it up.
-
Originally posted by TequilaChaser
open apology to Vlkyrie1, I invisioned your first couple of responses as another Shane wanabe.............
huh? that's nothing like what i would say... the alt cap thingy would be more a BK whine; nor do i beech about "styles" per se... and i don't do out of game personal insults...
replace "shane" with "BK" and you'd be more accurate. :aok
-
My opinion is 6K max alt is plenty. I don't care too much at the start, especially with the 60 second rule. I mean, you can't really build up a BnZ E advantage with a co-alt plane in 60 seconds. So even if you are both at 6K, and you *could* zoom to 8K, you probably wouldn't have great enough E advantage to make that an effective move. I just don't see it with same-type aircraft.
What concerns me in alt cap is when the round is almost over. Two guys fighting one side of the arena, another on the other side. One fight gets over, so the victor begins a climb to the other side of the arena where the last two guys are fighting. When that fight gets over, the first guy could be at or near max alt. -- THAT is when the difference between 6 and 8K is VERY apparent and important.
-
Originally posted by Shane
huh? that's nothing like what i would say... nor do i beech about "styles" per se... and i don't do out of game personal insults...
notice I said "Shane Wanabe" I was not implying you beech, whine, dine, or flame that way at all Shane.............
no matter though, is all good!
-
I like the 6K alt cap too...
Makes the event run faster...
Vlk's not knowing that cruise alt was discontinued months ago explains a lot...
Just FYI Valk,
I quit using a cruise alt because it was completely unenforceable from a CMing perspective... CMs have no special "player altimiters" to view, so why have an ambiguous standard?
WIND
We changed it to 180 straight-up, fromt he original straight down when we noticed that player that wanted to violate it - could fly right up into it, then coming screaming back down with a tail wind - totally unfair. I chose 180 & up to exagerrate the alt error and make it easier for me (and the players) to see an enforce - increasing CM objectivity. But it still relies on Ethical play by those involved.
Hope that clears it up a little, and why I made the decisions I did.
:aok
***EKOTH is TODAY!***
-
Any reason the weather Gods cant make the 6k limitation visible by slapping a big fat cloud layer at 6k?
Balsy
-
Originally posted by Balsy
Any reason the weather Gods cant make the 6k limitation visible by slapping a big fat cloud layer at 6k?
Balsy
I wish.
As of now, CM's are unable to adjust cloud layer alt, or AAA puffy ack alt.
In the future we hope to be able to adjust those settings.
-
Originally posted by Balsy
Any reason the weather Gods cant make the 6k limitation visible by slapping a big fat cloud layer at 6k?
Balsy
Weather patterns are not CM controlled either, they are written into the maps... Maybe HT will give CMs that ability one of these days, then we could certainly add that to our repetoire of tools.