Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: spitfiremkv on May 16, 2005, 06:58:07 PM
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Bought a bokken online,pretty cheap, even if it's just a wooden stick. Gonna see what I can do with it when it gets here, I was thinking about practicing some moves.
For a while I've been interested in fencing and kendo, this could be the first step of a new hobby.
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Be careful! You could put someones eye out with one of those things!!
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Talk to Daff and Totentanz on the AGW forums. Both are heavy into martial arts and I believe Daff has studdied kendo.
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I'm more into fencing myself. I trained for quite some time with sabre, but never made it to the nationals... required too much training and I didn't have the time.
I bought a couple of rapiers but never found one that was even close to the real thing. Too heavy, poorly balanced... I know there are sites where you can buy katanas that are as close to the real thing (with modern materials) as you can get, but I've never been able to find a rapier/dueling sword/sabre that had that level of authenticity.
Daniel
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You need to train at least 4 -5 hours a week for a year or two before you are proficient with a bo - sai's a pretty good too, I did a year of Kobujitsu after five years of Shukokai - eventually you burn out or at least 99% of people do - it's a very tough sport - if you can call it a sport.
Would like to get into Kendo but I'd have to get various knee's and tendons fixed first....
You can btw buy 17th and 18th century swords over here but you're talking 5-6 thousand dollars for something good.
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I did two years of Kendo back when i was in Japan... after two years, we never used the bamboo stick you're supposd to train with... only used the heavy wooden sword to practice the moves with... takes more than a stick to do kendo, good luck :)
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I have a bokken and a long stick. never used the bokken much, but i used to long stick for a few hours every week.
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are they like those cricket padle things?
lazs
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Originally posted by GScholz
I don't know about kendo, but a buddy of mine just got back from two weeks in Scotland, and brought a claymore sword back. :eek:
(http://www.armor.com/2000/catalog/images/100.jpg)
"If it's not Scottish, it's CRAP!!!!"
Karaya
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Some gangs in my neighborhood were trying to get me to join 'em because I'm pretty skilled with the bo staff.
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all the gangs around here wear dresses and sandals and carry wooden swords and cricket paddles.
lazs
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went to the scottish highland games last year, freak'n boring but...
(http://ca.geocities.com/ereid@rogers.com/swords.jpg)
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Originally posted by CyranoAH
I'm more into fencing myself. I trained for quite some time with sabre, but never made it to the nationals... required too much training and I didn't have the time.
I bought a couple of rapiers but never found one that was even close to the real thing. Too heavy, poorly balanced... I know there are sites where you can buy katanas that are as close to the real thing (with modern materials) as you can get, but I've never been able to find a rapier/dueling sword/sabre that had that level of authenticity.
Daniel
You try here?
http://www.museumreplicas.com/webstore/homepage.asp
A note regarding swords vs practice/fencing equipment.
The real thing is often heavier and has a different balance.
Never much cared for the foil. Hated the way they could interpose and arm to avoid the touch. Epee weeelllll .. wasn't TOO bad with it. I prefered the saber. BUT fencing can be very expensive.
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http://www.drakeshangout.com/gallery/albums/videos/commercials/files/katanaslip.wmv
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Kendo equipment is somewhat different and can be very expensive. Try here..
http://www.e-bogu.com/
The Bokken is more for self training all alone type practice. Not that a bokken isn't used 1 v 1 but they tend to splinter and or break after prolonged use. And can be very dangerous to participants and bystanders when this happens! If you use it for 1 v 1 be prepared to replace it often. And if you ever get hit with one (which should NOT happen if you're doing it properly) you may choose to avoid future 1 v 1 practice with bokkens.
NOTE: Some will practice with a bokkens for live blade demo's!
If you wish further info on bokkens I have a pretty good listing. Prices range from a few dollars to way up there! The cheaper ones are usually of the more brittle types of wood. The materials used in bokken constructuion vary widely. Many that have invested in the higher priced bokken (over $100) would NEVER use them in a 1 v 1.
Strength training can be done with the Suburito. Although some use this exclusively over a standard Bokken.
NOTE: AVOID any sword called stainless steel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The chromium makes them TOO BRITTLE for actual use!!!!
They will crack and break!!!
You could find your own blade has become very harmful shrapnel.
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If you wish to learn bokken or bokkuto study Kenjutsu.
Here is a link. I studied Teshin-ryu.........in the 1700's dueling with swords in Japan was outlawed. Tenshin-ryu developed a system for dueling with suburito. Suburito made of a properly seasoned wood can easily break a sword. The wood will also trap the sword edge.
Because of the weight, when it makes contact with your body, it pulverises bone, or shatters your skull. The chizle shaped tip made thrusts lethal. Duels that did not end in death often ended with amputations of limbs that could never be put back together because the arm or wrist bones were pulverised at the point of impact.
http://www.chicagobudokai.com/tenshin-ryu.htm
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a good stick is allways better than a fist unless you have to carry it around.
God really knew what he was doing when he created handguns.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
a good stick is allways better than a fist unless you have to carry it around.
God really knew what he was doing when he created handguns.
lazs
BWHAHAHAHAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!111
now that is totally a funny thread hijack! LMAO
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Originally posted by lazs2
a good stick is allways better than a fist unless you have to carry it around.
God really knew what he was doing when he created handguns.
lazs
I agree with Laz. Thats why I beleive in Mr. Kimber and Mr. Glock in my older years. Altough it's funny the things people leave laying around that most would not beleive the secondary uses you can put them to.
Guns were the begining of the end for the Samurai. Any ashigaru could be trained to pull a trigger in a fraction of the time it took to train a functional Samurai.
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Originally posted by bustr
I agree with Laz. Thats why I beleive in Mr. Kimber and Mr. Glock in my older years. Altough it's funny the things people leave laying around that most would not beleive the secondary uses you can put them to.
Guns were the begining of the end for the Samurai. Any ashigaru could be trained to pull a trigger in a fraction of the time it took to train a functional Samurai.
Tom Cruise tried to stop that, but noone knows what ebcame of him.
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Originally posted by wrag
You try here?
http://www.museumreplicas.com/webstore/homepage.asp
A note regarding swords vs practice/fencing equipment.
The real thing is often heavier and has a different balance.
Never much cared for the foil. Hated the way they could interpose and arm to avoid the touch. Epee weeelllll .. wasn't TOO bad with it. I prefered the saber. BUT fencing can be very expensive.
Thanks I will take a look. About the weight and stuff... I know a 800 gram-sabre is not to be expected, but the quality of the iron used is far below what would be used in real life.
Just compare your typical steel katana that you can purchase anywhere with the $3000-6000 ones... the cheap ones will weigh almost two times of the expensive one.
Daniel
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While googeling on this subject I belive I have found our old friend Mr Black!
I have never met him in person, but just look at those eyes... It can't be anyone else.
Scary
(http://mi.aacdn.us/combobreaker/scared.jpg)
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I read a book about fencing by Evangelista. Definitely a nice sport that requires a lot of skills, both physical and mental. Same with Kendo.
I would not try to hit anything with the bokken, of course, since it can break.
Some people on the site I bought it from commented on that.
I'm more interested in ancient swordfighting, versus fencing which is just a sport (though of course you can kill with an epee by sticking it in someone's vital organs). But unless you're going to renaissance fairs :eek:, I have no clue how you can practice that.
You'd need some sort of padded weapons because older swords can maim through sheer weight when they hit someone.
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Originally posted by CyranoAH
Thanks I will take a look. About the weight and stuff... I know a 800 gram-sabre is not to be expected, but the quality of the iron used is far below what would be used in real life.
Just compare your typical steel katana that you can purchase anywhere with the $3000-6000 ones... the cheap ones will weigh almost two times of the expensive one.
Daniel
An excellently crafted, folded steel blade is also normally very porous. They'll rust like hell without religious maintenance. Caught a special on them on the Discovery channel once. iirc you have to oil and polish them frequently. Now, I've always thought owning a sword was pretty obsolete since the invention of modern firearms, but I know a guy (ex-friend, he's a giant sweetheart) with a great collection including a few that are hundreds of years old. Impressive, but I couldn't see myself keeping up on their maintenance.
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Originally posted by Nilsen
While googeling on this subject I belive I have found our old friend Mr Black!
I have never met him in person, but just look at those eyes... It can't be anyone else.
Scary
(http://mi.aacdn.us/combobreaker/scared.jpg)
Hmm the grip he is using looks incorrect?
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It was early days at the ninja boot camp.
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Originally posted by indy007
An excellently crafted, folded steel blade is also normally very porous. They'll rust like hell without religious maintenance. Caught a special on them on the Discovery channel once. iirc you have to oil and polish them frequently. Now, I've always thought owning a sword was pretty obsolete since the invention of modern firearms, but I know a guy (ex-friend, he's a giant sweetheart) with a great collection including a few that are hundreds of years old. Impressive, but I couldn't see myself keeping up on their maintenance.
A trick I heard about is to use pledge furniture wax on damascus type steel. Claim was it kept both moisture and oxygen from touching the metal.
Also BreakFree has/gives excellent protection on metal surfaces.
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Originally posted by spitfiremkv
Some people on the site I bought it from commented on that.
I'm more interested in ancient swordfighting, versus fencing which is just a sport (though of course you can kill with an epee by sticking it in someone's vital organs). But unless you're going to renaissance fairs :eek:, I have no clue how you can practice that.
You'd need some sort of padded weapons because older swords can maim through sheer weight when they hit someone.
Well, to practice fighting with the equivelent of padded baseball bats, check out SCA heavy fighting. They have fighter practice regularly, and most cities have their cul... groups.. nice enough people, but in general even more odd than extremist star wars vs. star trek geeks. It's generally more appealing to people interested in Kendo. I tried it, it's alot of fun, just didn't have the time to commit, and SCA politics... man, it's a renny version of 90210.
light fighting was more fun than me since I'm skinny. gave a nice advantage with a slim side profile (a major target being the armpit & just underneath it). not bad with a foil, pretty mean with an epee (since the target zones are much bigger & I can snipe knees out). got my butt handed to me in sabre though. just not my thing. University of Houston has a cool fencing club, so if it's your cup of tea check out local colleges. The SCA people also practiced with them, so I had some really good tutors.
man, I wish I still had the time :(
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Originally posted by CyranoAH
Thanks I will take a look. About the weight and stuff... I know a 800 gram-sabre is not to be expected, but the quality of the iron used is far below what would be used in real life.
Just compare your typical steel katana that you can purchase anywhere with the $3000-6000 ones... the cheap ones will weigh almost two times of the expensive one.
Daniel
Ahhh .... think you will like what you see then. These weapons are mostly made by Windlass Steelcraft in India. I may have misspelled that name.
Anyways... it's reported on the site that the blades are made for actual combat use. The steel used is pretty flexable and springs right back after flexing. Don't recall the actual amount of deflextion they can take though.
Oh look here.....
http://www.atlantacutlery.com/webstore/homepage.asp
This is interesting but kinda hard to pick out the real from the look alike....
http://www.mwart.com/prod_list.asp
And ColdSteel now has Swords, Maces, and other stuff.............
http://www.coldsteel.com/
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spitfire,
In normal use in a kenjutsu dojo junior students can go through several bokken in the first year mostly because it takes a year or so to learn not to use heavy hands at impact. Past that point the student only breaks the bokken by mistake, showing off, or they need to get their money back from the internet seller.
Or you are performing sanshin breathing and your sensei is testing your resolve and finds out your shoulders are stronger than your cheap bokken he's been whacking you with for the last 5 minutes........./:-(.......
If you want to strike something with your bokken build a tamishiwari stand for it. You can sink 2 4x4 posts in the ground close enough to stick an old car tire between them with the top about waist high. Then use large bolts with big washers to hold each side of the tire to the 4x4's.
A traditional stand is to make 2 - X's of wood with say 2x2's and collect a bundle of 1" tree limbs, tie them together with rope, then lay them across the 2 - X's. Tie them to the X's at each end. Make the bundle be about waist high.
Then proceed to wear yourself out on either stand.
I would be more worried about the mekugi working itself out of the mekugi-ana during kata with a shin ken.............
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thanks bustr, though I don't know what all those terms are. I definitely need to concoct something I can hit with the bokken , but it has to be fairly small cause I live in an apartment.
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If you were a student of a Kenjutsu dojo, you would be taught how to wear yourself out in your apartment with your bokken, suburito, and hokkoku suburito.
If you have some secluded forest land available, trim limbs from saplings. Or cut the tops from tall feild plants. If you learn how to cut using a bokken, you will be able to eccelerate the leading 6 inches to a speed that can snap clean green 1/2" to 1 " brances or similar things.
Check in your local area for a Kenjutsu Dojo, or a Budokia that teaches some school of Kenjutsu.
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bustr... I have never been adverse to using whatever was within reach. I have even taken opponents to the things I couldn't move. I also try my best to not let them do the same.
I think it is a shame that boxing was banned in schools so long ago. the thing about boxing was that it was full contact. Sure... some noses were broke and a few concussions but.... a certain level of confidence (or not) was achieved by getting in the ring knowing the other person was gonna beat the hell outta ya if you didn't try to punch right through his mug.
lazs
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Originally posted by wrag
http://www.atlantacutlery.com/webstore/homepage.asp
This is interesting but kinda hard to pick out the real from the look alike....
http://www.mwart.com/prod_list.asp
And ColdSteel now has Swords, Maces, and other stuff.............
http://www.coldsteel.com/
Thanks, I knew about Atlanta Cutlery and ColdSteel, but they didn't have european swords last time I checked.
I visited Coldsteel and fell in love with this one:
(http://store1.yimg.com/I/csstoreonline_1844_1503294)
:)
Daniel
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dontcha feel a little conspicuous wearing that thing tho?
lazs
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Not in a costume party I don't! :)
Daniel
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Originally posted by Nilsen
While googeling on this subject I belive I have found our old friend Mr Black!
I have never met him in person, but just look at those eyes... It can't be anyone else.
Scary
(http://mi.aacdn.us/combobreaker/scared.jpg)
It's Animal!
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"Not in a costume party I don't!
Daniel"
Go to a lot of "costume parties" do you?
lazs
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http://www.samuraisports.com/
This is the company my group goes through for our weapons. They give a more realistic feel when striking someone than other practice weapons.
I've talked to the owner on numerous occasions, he knows his stuff.
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Originally posted by CPorky
http://www.samuraisports.com/
This is the company my group goes through for our weapons. They give a more realistic feel when striking someone than other practice weapons.
I've talked to the owner on numerous occasions, he knows his stuff.
Ask the owner if he knows Fredrick J. Lovret. By the way, whacking someone with a boffer is nothing like breaking their bones with a bokkuto or removing limbs with a shin ken............the only risk with a boffer is your ego.
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I like my Bokken!
I am Duncan McCloud of the clan McCloud!
seriously now, I found some Aikido videos of some basic moves, I'll start with those.
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You're right, I am SUCH a wussy unable to handle dismemberment on a large scale.
You rule supreme...
(no kidding, there is safety in boffer weapons, THAT IS THE POINT!)
Originally posted by bustr
the only risk with a boffer is your ego.
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Originally posted by lazs2
"Not in a costume party I don't!
Daniel"
Go to a lot of "costume parties" do you?
lazs
If you want an invitation you just have to ask ya know...