Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: JBA on May 17, 2005, 09:08:20 AM
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IMO I see this happening in the US. We are moving away from the "melting pot” society and moving towards a “multicultural society”. I live in a mixed nationality home, we observe my wife’s holidays but we live our lives and rear our children to be American.
We hear cries for “Diversity”: Diversity in the schools, Diversity at work. Do we really want a country of multi- nationalism? Will it make for a health society or will it bring resentment?
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2005/05/16/making_excuses_for_bigotry/
............................. Welcome to Politically Correct World, where acts that would merit unequivocal condemnation if committed by white males are viewed in a very different light when the offenders belong to an ''oppressed group."...........................
ON APRIL 30, American journalist Chris Crain became the victim of a hate crime in Amsterdam: While walking in the street holding hands with his partner, he was savagely beaten by seven men shouting antigay slurs...........
.............Crain's attackers were reportedly Moroccan immigrants.............
''There's still an extraordinary degree of racism in Dutch society," Long opined to the gay news service PlanetOut. ''Gays often become the victims of this when immigrants retaliate for the inequities that they have to suffer."........................
The irony, of course, is that one of the principal reasons for the recent anti-immigrant backlash in the traditionally tolerant Netherlands is the fear that the influx of immigrants from deeply conservative Muslim cultures will threaten the country's liberal attitudes on social issues, particularly the rights of women and gays. (Pim Fortuyn, the maverick anti-immigrant Dutch politician assassinated in 2002, was openly gay.) This fear is shared by some immigrants -- notably, the Somali-born politician Ayaan Hirsi Ali
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The tension between two pillars of the modern left -- multiculturalism and progressive views on gender -- is not new. It has been particularly thorny in many European countries where, in lieu of an American-style ''melting pot" approach, immigrants have been traditionally encouraged to maintain their distinct values and ways.
.......Even feminists often balk at breaking the multicultural faith. A 2001 article in Labyrinth, a feminist philosophy journal, lamented that concerns about the oppression of women in the Third World could perpetuate ''the stereotype that 'brown' men abuse 'brown' women more than white men" and cause ''Third World" people to be perceived as ''more barbaric" than Westerners......
.............Misogyny and gay-bashing -- religiously motivated or not -- still exist in Western societies as well, though at least they are widely condemned by the mainstream culture. We should be able to say, loud and clear, that the modern values of individual rights, equality, and tolerance are better -- and just say no to multiculturalist excuses for bigotry.....
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Interesting read, thanks.
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Good point JBA and good read
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I like all these nice PC answers. Yep we done been indoctrinated to not speak our minds....weeeeeeeeeeee....... ..just watch the Balkinisation of amerika pick up speed........... Pull up a lawn chair and pass the beer....................so we supposed to learn aribic, swahili, spanish, chinese, tagloug, farshe, erudu, hindu, hamong, laos, vietnam, treefrog, wookie, robot, martian....this week to take our DMV eye tests?
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LOL bustr
I think everyone is waiting for a euro to come defend it or something.
Multiculturalism is bull****, it will be what destroys the west.
We should not allow people to imagrate that do not speak the native language and have a usable skill.
We should not have anything in the US but english on all government forms. It SHOULD be a melting pot people coming here should BE americans not Mexican american, or viking americans, irish americans etc.
You want to keep you old culture stay in your country, come to american to be an american.
In america its not OK for anyone to beat up a homo, no mater what culture you came from! =)
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Multiculturalism is bull****, it will be what destroys the west.
Yup.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1081438631_swoop.gif)
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Assimulation : yes!
Integration: NO!
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Look at this as an exclusive country club. Because the club has standards for membership and keeps the numbers of members controlled, the club maintains the exclusive services that attracts quality members.
As soon as some ideiot on the board lowers the standards for $$$ reasons and has too many open to the public days each week, the club gets over run with people who trash it because they would not have qualified as a regular member.
If America is not kept a special place to be, then how can those who are here ever be what is special that makes us Americans? If the illegals do not assimilate into America fully, America the unique cradle of modern humanity will dissapear back into a dark ages of 3rd world failure.
Look at South Africa, find out how many times a day Cape Town, Pretoria and other cities endure power outages daily because it's no longer run by the unique people who originally created and maintained the place.
See any hoards of people wanting to move to Detroit these days? There's been an initiative going around in the city council looking at knocking down parts of the city to go back into agriculture.
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Originally posted by bustr
Look at this as an exclusive country club. Because the club has standards for membership and keeps the numbers of members controlled, the club maintains the exclusive services that attracts quality members.
As soon as some ideiot on the board lowers the standards for $$$ reasons and has too many open to the public days each week, the club gets over run with people who trash it because they would not have qualified as a regular member.
If America is not kept a special place to be, then how can those who are here ever be what is special that makes us Americans? If the illegals do not assimilate into America fully, America the unique cradle of modern humanity will dissapear back into a dark ages of 3rd world failure.
Look at South Africa, find out how many times a day Cape Town, Pretoria and other cities endure power outages daily because it's no longer run by the unique people who originally created and maintained the place.
See any hoards of people wanting to move to Detroit these days? There's been an initiative going around in the city council looking at knocking down parts of the city to go back into agriculture.
Ever been to South Africa?? I'm from there - go back twice a year - you're talking absolute HS about something you know nothing - you're a racist bigot flapping his gums and his little Klan message.
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Originally posted by bustr
Look at this as an exclusive country club. Because the club has standards for membership and keeps the numbers of members controlled, the club maintains the exclusive services that attracts quality members.
The only quality a club made this way has is degeneration.
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it was easier to make America a melting pot when most immigrants were whites from Europe :P
compared to the rest of the world, their cultureal differences are small indeed.
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Originally posted by Schaden
Ever been to South Africa?? I'm from there - go back twice a year - you're talking absolute HS about something you know nothing - you're a racist bigot flapping his gums and his little Klan message.
Thats ok I was born Casablanca Morrocco, North Africa.
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Originally posted by bustr
See any hoards of people wanting to move to Detroit these days? There's been an initiative going around in the city council looking at knocking down parts of the city to go back into agriculture.
Bustr, they just have run out of places to dispose of the bodies. Returning parts of the city to "farmland" = providing more dirt to bury bodies in. Besides, getting rid of the buildings gives them a better field of fire. :)
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By the way if you want to label someone something to "Chill" diaolog, be sure of the definition and exactly how you are using the term:
From: What is Racism?
by: Sam Dickson
full text: http://particular-baptist-1.tripod.com/Secession/racist.html
We must never forget that the term 'racist' is very new in the English language and - of far greater importance - that it was first used by none other than Leon Trotsky, Lenin's second-in-command and leading Communist mass murderer of aristocrats, clergymen, middle class Russians, and intelligent peasants and workers.
The Oxford English Dictionary [OED] is the definitive source on such subjects. It shows the first time each word in our language is known to have appeared.
The OED shows that racist first appeared around 1934 in The Russian Revolution, a book written by Leon Trotsky.
It was used in describing the Slavophiles, patriots who were proud of their Slavic roots and wanted to save these distinctive features of the Russian people and their culture in the face of desires by Leon Trotsky and others of his non-Russian background to erase all such national and racial distinctions in the name of what today would be called 'globalization' and 'modernization.'
In short, Slavophiles - the first victims of this 'racist' accusation - were people like us. We want to preserve the distinctiveness of the South, its ethnic makeup and culture. The Chamber of Commerce types, sort of a capitalist mirror image of such Communists as Trotsky, would erase both the ethnic makeup of the South through immigration plus genocide via miscegenation, and our traditional culture by substituting a standardized television culture.
Recognition of the fact that the word racist sprang from the brain of a brutal Communist mass-murderer should help us recognize it as a semantic trick.
Racist carries a double meaning by including within itself two types of people:
· Those who believe racial differences are important and that race is significant in determining social and political policies, people who believe that diversity is best served by preserving the distinctive human races rather than homogenizing them.
· Those who perpetrate cruel crimes upon people of another race.
The two meanings, which do not belong together, are thus linked as a semantic trick which gags, and is intended to gag, public debate on such issues.
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Schaden
Your name fits you, how nice of you to call people names instead of talking about the issue like an adult.
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Except you guys are starting to sound AWFULLY like the Klan, and Schaden is not.
Seeing how the Klan loosely justifies their position on racial discrimination with religion, and the conservative rightwing Christians were the most fanatic supporters of the Nazi principle during darker times, I'd say quoting a bible-thumper's view on 'racism' is a very dangerous move to take - because it is so easy to point out the gaping flaws in their basic logic, since it is derived from the rule of absolute discrimination which doesn't require logic at all, in the first place.
Multiple ethnicity existing in a single country, and coming up ways to loosen the tension between them, and promote mutual understanding, is a task that requires ages of concentration and effort. It's the price you pay for being an internationally recognized country, and especially for a country which justifies its political/diplomatic intervention to other states in the name of Democracy.
Redefining racism in such a manner is a cop-out and self-denial of the very principles of your own country you guys are so proud of.
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BS
I do not care what race the people who come here are, they can be martians or canadians for all I care. I just want them to come here and add something to America and be a part of it instead of coming here to be leaches and not try and be americans.
If that in your eyes makes me sound like a racist nazi then there is something very wrong with you
shaden didnt say a damn think he just slung insults, and you defend him?
What exactly did I say that sounds like klan or nazi BS to you?
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Originally posted by bustr
By the way if you want to label someone something to "Chill" diaolog, be sure of the definition and exactly how you are using the term................
First, I dont believe anyone could be further from the stereotypical person I think of when you use the term "racist" than bustr. I dont know him personally, but I have met few people on this BBS or in Aces High more polite and helpful. However, your post is missing a point bustr.
Irregardless of the origins of the word, it has evolved through use (and overuse I'm sure) to it's current usage. That usage is often very personal, and colored by individual experience. More than likely, if someone is using the term, their thought processes are hardly likely to be analytical. Certain things in your previous post probably caught Schaden's attention and triggered a response, which I'm sure he would not have repeated had he known you better, or taken the time to think about things.
Anyway, lurking mode back on. Back to the program.
:)
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Meanigless semantics.
The end result is always the same. Anti-immigration legislations, heavier regulations and limitations imposed upon those without 'original America' background, substatial disadvantages, and in the end, an economical/social segregation which supposedly should not be existing, except it is observable in every manner.
You want them to come and add something to America, and yet, you somehow think that 'America' is YOUR 'America', and only you or your peers have the right to define what 'America' is, or should be. Unfortunately, 'America' is but a name, an abstract concept which changes by the minute. With each new members of the society, new concepts, new ideas, new communities, 'America' or any other country for that matter, changes from the way it was to the way it is now.
Simply put, you don't want it to change. You don't want neighbors who don't speak your language, who eats different foods, who has different ideas, who makes different friends. They are alien to you and the country as you know it, and thus, they must be stopped - unless they are fully assimiliated, and they lose all of their original identity to become 'Americans', they must be stopped. You don't want un-American communities changing or influencing America to become what you don't approve. Thus, you want the 'alien factor' suppressed.
In the name of the purity of something abstract, you are ready to impose material regulations and disadvantages to those who would not be assimilated to your own ranks; it's an open invitation to Nazism and Klan mentality.
Think of it this way.
You may not be a racist in the fact that you don't segregate people by their skin color, but you can easily be an 'ethinicist' or 'statist' in the fact that you segregate people by their ethnicity, beliefs, mode of thinking, identity, and attitude and living styles within a country which you wish to believe that it exclusively belongs to you and your peers only, and only they have the right to define what is 'American' and what is 'Un-American'.
The basic mentality and logic is exactly the same. The Nazis themselves had very same reasons, and very same ideas in regards to Jews. Despite all efforts, Jews so furiously resisted being fully assimilated into the base culture of the country. So in the end, they must be eliminated - literally.
I'm not necessarily calling you a Nazi or Klan. But you guys are starting to sound like them. However, despite your thoughts and commentaries, I refuse to believe you or other people in these boards would ever become so cruel and insane, and want to really hurt people.
You are simply normal folk who are worried about how things are going around. It's perfectly understandable.
But somethings, despite all, we should try to consciously avoid and be wary of, since people can be so easily seduced to resort to extreme and simple methods of dealing with social problems. All that talk about PCness and ideas in regards to culture.. race.. equality.. liberty.. blahblahblah.. so twisted and complicated. A good ol' bang-up legislation act always looks so much more effective and straight-forward, right?
Wrong.
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BS again,
But thank you for showing us your own line of intolerance and bigotry.
You have no clue what I want for the future of my country or what I want in neighbors, but boy are you good at making slanderous sweeping generalisations.
Try and put words in someone else mouth.
at least shaden is direct with his insults.
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Lol....
So many victims ("whaaa")....
Kweassa, please apologize to GtoRA2. You said hurtful things to him. Not only does he have to deal with all this immigration crap, but now he's getting attacked on the PC side too. It's suffocating.
"First the good folks like me are under attack by all this multiculturalism crap, and now I'm getting attacked because I can't even call multiculturalism crap!"
Life's a biotch, eh?
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I think all this multiculturism is fine. I just don't think it's the government responsibility to support it. Government should be color, culture, and ethnic blind.
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Atlas shrugged. Where is John Galt?
In the last century American culture put men on the moon. This planets greatest accomplishment so far. Do we move forward on the shoulders of the cultural genius that enabled such a feat, or does America become swamped with people who are only capable of indifferent curiosity, striving to turn America into a patch work of their home lands highest achievments which are still centuries to decades behind Americas highest point nearly 50 years ago?
When the children of that genius are either murdered by the ignorant hoard or have dissapered to parts unknown, will the hoard be able to decipher the hand books for how to keep the lights on at night? Who will want to be the next Bill Gates or Steve Jobs for these unapreciative hoards? Their home lands are almost or are ruins, why would any of you want to give your genius and very soul of creativity to them?
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kwea.... I believe that the "multiculturals" are the ones sounding like the KKK..
The terms "multicultural" and "seperate but equal" are interchangeable.
The KKK couldn't have come up with a better idea to continue to foster prejudice than "multiculturalism"
just how far are spanish only speakers gonna go in America?
Those who claim that the difference in the original euro immigrants were small are wrong... many spoke no english... most spoke such an accented one as to be instantly recognized as immigrants. Huge campaigns against italians and irish were waged... Scots were treated with less respect than the mules in the mines.
most euro immigrants taught their kids to learn unaccented english and to fit in. That is really what the melting pot is about... all the cultures making one unique America...
lazs
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Originally posted by bustr
In short, Slavophiles - the first victims of this 'racist' accusation - were people like us. We want to preserve the distinctiveness of the South, its ethnic makeup and culture.
What exactly is the ethnic nature and culture of the South?
Saying the word "racist" is invalid because it was coined by a commie is about as stupid as saying a peace sign doesn't mean peace cause it looks like a crows foot.
Multiculturalism isn't new. Anyone who walked the streets of Chicago in the 60's knows this. The Polish neighborhood was separate from the Italian neighborhood etc. etc.
The owner of the corner store more than likely spoke the language of the locals.... and maybe English too.
The big differernce today is that other races besides white folks are trying to do the same.
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Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
First, I dont believe anyone could be further from the stereotypical person I think of when you use the term "racist" than bustr. I dont know him personally, but I have met few people on this BBS or in Aces High more polite and helpful. However, your post is missing a point bustr.
Irregardless of the origins of the word, it has evolved through use (and overuse I'm sure) to it's current usage. That usage is often very personal, and colored by individual experience. More than likely, if someone is using the term, their thought processes are hardly likely to be analytical. Certain things in your previous post probably caught Schaden's attention and triggered a response, which I'm sure he would not have repeated had he known you better, or taken the time to think about things.
Anyway, lurking mode back on. Back to the program.
:)
I know, but I chose to be obtuse for a reason.
In the American arena of "ideas" for the last 30 years or so, calling a person a racist, bigot, homophobe, woman or child abuser or any of these accusations of moral illness has been all it took to shame people of none Liberal ideology to silence. I am none of the above and have no reason to leave the arena. For what reason should I retire in the face of a person who is intellectually and non-insparationaly this dull?
Using such purial verbal harassment thinking it will fashion a lable to me that will trigger the traditional American guilt response is lame......................... ...................I notice he dosen't live in South Africa full time and try to get everyone he knows or interacts with to immigrate to this Southern African garden spot.
And I don't attempt to sell Detroit to anyone either................
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Originally posted by bustr
Thats ok I was born Casablanca Morrocco, North Africa.
What the hell does have to do with anything? It's not okay if you were shooting your mouth off about a country you don't know anything about.
Thrawn: Blah blah blah, Mobile sucks because it doesn't have any elephants.
Guy from Mobile: You're full of ****, I'm from Mobile and we do so have elephants.
Thrawn: That's ok I was born Ottawa Ontario, North America.
Guy from Mobile: WTF??!!
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MT.. you are correct in that there were/are... ethnic neighborhoods in America...And... they are fine if you never want to get anywhere past those few square blocks of ethnic security... Kids were encouraged to get out by melting into society...
Now... we have generations of people being encouraged to stay mired in the culture they left and never getting anywhere... that is todays "multiculturalism" it is Americans and... all the dummies who won't fit in.
The KKK probly had something to do with it but short of David Duke I don't think they had anyone smart enough to come up with the scheme.
lazs