Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Guppy35 on May 17, 2005, 12:22:16 PM
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...so there I am in my trusty, oil leaking, duct taped P38G. I'm in the thick of it on the deck just inland on one of the islands, in the thick of a 1 v 2 against a N1K and a Spit IX. It's gotten low and slow, with everything hanging out, right on the stall. Trying to watch the trees, the side of the hill, etc, while doing my best to get the angle on the baduns.
I'm gaining in the turn on the N1K and the shot isn't too far off. The Spit 9 is gaining on me and his shot isn't far off...
Who will score first?
The $*%^#*^% Ki84 that blew threw at light speed and nailed me :)
Sure wish I could go back and see how that one would have turned out without the picker.
Dan/CorkyJr
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question:
what if it was a 109 you were chasing and getting the shot on, and a 190 came and "cherry picked" you?
ever think the guy in the 109 (n1k2 in your exact scenario) was calling on VOX to a squaddie to come clear him?
i guess we should abolish squads, or at least not let them clear each other, because we might "offend" or "cherry pick" someone.
that's what i get from your story, and hear all the time in the MA
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LOL. I wasn't complaining, just wishful thinking.
A target is a target in the MA. The Ki had every right to blast me.
It was just a really fun fight for me, and I wished it would have played out all the way with the 2 guys I was turning with. It's entirely possible that the Spit IX would have gotten the shot first before I got the N1K. He was really working at it too. I'm guessing he probably felt about the same as me.
So relax, don't get defensive. I'm not taking this at all seriously, just remembering a fun fight :)
Dan/CorkyJr
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a close fun 2 against one becomes 3 to 1 cause some loser wants an easy kill
that's what I heard
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What I get from the story is he was already in a 2 v 1 against "better" planes on the deck, and clearly had visible damage after a long drawn out fight, but then El Savior stole the Spitfire's kill.
Really though, you can't expect extra people to stay out of a 5 v 1, let alone 2 v 1. Though I sympathize with both you and the Spitfire.
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cc guppy, i follow you, and no offense... im just egtting sick of the "stay out of my fight" mentality lately.
i can't count the times a JB has been called a cherry picker because he cleared a squad mate who was begging for help on vox. that's what wingmen / squads are for.
eagler, i either guess you are not in a squad, or it is a squad that is compltetly worthless in working together.
if you are in a squad what do you do when a squadmate is getting in trouble and asks for help?
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was it a jb## in trouble or you just justifying ma lameness or both?
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im "justifing" that not everything in the MA is what you assume it to be.
assumptions are the mother of all _____ up's
when someone is in a fight, and they get shot down by a fast, or high, or whatever enemy, they immediatly claim it was a kill-stealing-horde monger-alt monkey-bnz dweeb-whatever.
where there are cases of that, it is hardly 100% of the time. i would say more than often it is someone on range or squad asking for help clearing that plane about to shoot them down.
i can't fly a sortie in the MA without that situation arising, and 90% of the time i zoom down to take a swipe and clear that friendly (as stated if he asks).
to make the generalization that it is always the other is absurd, and rather whiny.
again guppy sir i understand your original post, this is about other points brought up.
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Originally posted by Eagler
was it a jb## in trouble or you just justifying ma lameness or both?
Matters not. The real questions is what did the Nik2 and the Spit think about this situation. I could care less what the red guy thinks or cares about a particular fight. I will ask if a countryman needs help and if he replies yes then I'm in to do my best to get him out of the situation alive. I've even risked and lost my own planes lending a hand. Squadies get helped no matter what.
If this were posted by the Spit pilot then he may have a lagitimate complaint. Not that I see it as Guppy complaing. I think he was jusy enjoying the engagement and wanted to see it reach it's conclusion.
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Originally posted by JB73
...if you are in a squad what do you do when a squadmate is getting in trouble and asks for help?
Laugh at them.
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Originally posted by Clifra Jones
Matters not. The real questions is what did the Nik2 and the Spit think about this situation. I could care less what the red guy thinks or cares about a particular fight. I will ask if a countryman needs help and if he replies yes then I'm in to do my best to get him out of the situation alive. I've even risked and lost my own planes lending a hand. Squadies get helped no matter what.
If this were posted by the Spit pilot then he may have a lagitimate complaint. Not that I see it as Guppy complaing. I think he was jusy enjoying the engagement and wanted to see it reach it's conclusion.
Yep, that's it for me. It would have been fun to see how it played out. As I said, the Spit IX driver was getting the angle on me and I was getting the angle on the N1K.
It was just one of those fights that don't happen often where you end up with a sore arm from bending the stick and feeling good about it win or lose because you've worked so hard :)
In my mind I saw myself getting the N1K before the Spit got a shot and then being able to react to him. Everyone was way slow and the trees and the deck were definately a factor. Couldn't really drop the nose without hitting something.
I sure don't blame the Ki driver for taking the shot. It was a gimme for him. But it would have been fun to see if I might have lived vs the N1K and the Spit.
Dan/CorkyJr
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>>The Ki had every right to blast me. <<
Yeah but, I'll bet he had some splainin to do to his 2 countrymates who were fighting you; or at least to one of em (the Spit).
>>It was a gimme for him. But it would have been fun to see if I might have lived vs the N1K and the Spit.<<
Had the Ki waited while you killed the Nik1, you woulda been dead anyway ;)
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I bet the KI threw out a faux
as well.
:confused:
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And if you killed the NIK, the KI and the Spit would have to do some explaining also :lol
You just can't win. If you have a red icon, you will be shot. Always been that way and thats how it should be.
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hey i do that all the time:D
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Sorry Guppy turnabout is fair play. Seems to me while I was trying to clear a 205 off a squaddie's 6 a P38G comes zoomin out of nowhere and gets a shot off and kills me. The Nik you was fighting was also a squaddie. So not only was I trying to save him but after I saw it was you I figure it was an issue of pay backs being hell.
Sorry didnt mean to make you upset.
And to comment on something mentioned earlier, I didnt give a . I was doing what I needed to do to clear a squaddie and like he said I came zoomin in. I'm not going to salute him because there was no fight and no swapping of angles. The engagement was over before it started.
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Originally posted by Wolf14
Sorry Guppy turnabout is fair play. Seems to me while I was trying to clear a 205 off a squaddie's 6 a P38G comes zoomin out of nowhere and gets a shot off and kills me. The Nik you was fighting was also a squaddie. So not only was I trying to save him but after I saw it was you I figure it was an issue of pay backs being hell.
Sorry didnt mean to make you upset.
And to comment on something mentioned earlier, I didnt give a . I was doing what I needed to do to clear a squaddie and like he said I came zoomin in. I'm not going to salute him because there was no fight and no swapping of angles. The engagement was over before it started.
Wasn't remotely upset :) Seems to me I said nice shot if I remember right and asked if you were the Spit.
It was a good fight and you blasted me as you should have.
Couldn't have been me that killed you earlier as I can't seem to hit the broadside of a barn these days much less an airplane :)
Edited to add the moment you blew me away. All the duct tape in the world wouldn't put my 38 together again :)
Dan/CorkyJr
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/169_1116389538_dedcork.jpg)
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I dont monitor 200 much at all. Its nothing but a bunch of trash talk and I dont care much for it. Sorry didnt see anything you typed.
It was you that killed me earlier because the kill msg said I was shot down by CorkyJR. In fact I want to say I saw you land those kills and you had come back when the 38/51 raid was commin in high. Or round about that time.
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Originally posted by Wolf14
I dont monitor 200 much at all. Its nothing but a bunch of trash talk and I dont care much for it. Sorry didnt see anything you typed.
It was you that killed me earlier because the kill msg said I was shot down by CorkyJR. In fact I want to say I saw you land those kills and you had come back when the 38/51 raid was commin in high. Or round about that time.
I'll take your word for it :) I was having one of those nights where nothing was working so I must have gotten lucky on a shot.
Good fun either way :)
Dan/CorkyJr
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to Guppy and Wolf for gameplay fairness in face of the neccessities of the fight!
Oh, and on the subject of 'helping' to clear others: Ive been called picker and moron for clearing boogies off countrymen, ive been raged at for not helping others when staying out of the 2 vs 1. Since I never do the right thing anyway, now i just do what suits me best/i think is appropriate.... (and no, asking on range usually doesnt result in any form of answer)
Ever seen a knit Spit 5 'horde' harrassing a field???
(Might have been the 71 on one of our squad missions/fighter sweeps)
PS: Coooooool p38 pic (thats the moment i find them most beautiful - when they start falling apart in front of my gunsight :p :D )
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Looks like I have to up more often and watch Dan's 6.
"Thus, the picker shall become the pickee." :)
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See now if you were smart you would have done a sudden high G near total blackout turn very close to the side of that hill causeing either the spit or the niki to splatterthemself into it by going into a high G total blackout turn trying to get the lead shot thus turning it into a 1V1 just before the KI zoomed in at lightspeed and blew you away.:)
I love making people lawndart. Amazing how many you can get to do it too
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@Everyone but Guppy and Wolf
Team play is about helping team mates out.
Winging is about helping clear your wingmans six when he needs it cleared.
When ever you play as a team there is never a 1v1 situation because that is single play. Your enemy *might* think its a 1v1 but its HIS mistake taking so as it wasnt ever a 1v1. It was a 1v2 to start with unfortunatly the enemies SA failed him as he didnt recognize the situation.
This is something you see all the time in the MA. People thinking they are fighting 1v1 then screaming bloody murder when the wingman comes in and kills him.
When ever I fight and I see two or more planes of the same type I assume a squad wing. When ever I see two or more enemy planes co-alt with each other and within 2.5k I assume a squad wing.
Assuming single pilot fight is the reason of soo many peoples death in AH.
But even a bigger reason is lack of ACM usage.
There are so many pilots just chasing others around instead of using ACMs. If you clue your self to someones six you can bet your six that he is gonna call for help and your gonna get engaged. Instead use your freekin ACMs and stay of his six, set up the deflection shots. This way your out of his six view 90% of the time.
Tex.
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lol
so everyone in your country is your wingman?
I understand clearing ur buds or squadmates six .. I also understand the tard who zooms in for the easy kill
which do you think happens most often in the MA enviroment ?
that is what I felt was meant by the title of this thread ... tardness
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Not really, neither Guppy nor Wolf (the two pilots involved) mentioned anything about tardness.... both of them are discussing a fight in a good manner... though a ton of other pilots including your self made this thread into a classic forum whining spree with nothing but finger pointing....
Tex
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When it comes to your question about if everyone in my country is my wingman.
No not everyone is my wingman but I definatly help any rook that needs help.
I dont dive into low situations where there is a 5v1 down there but I do ask if they got the situation handled. If they do say they need help I do help out.
Reason I dont just dive into the situation isnt out of curtecy but out of the simple reason that I dont want to burn my E.
Me getting stuck on the deck without E, without having helped save anyone, hurts my team and my wing more then it helps. Me staying high will help protect the guys on the deck if high cons emerge, so I do more good for the team and my self staying up there.
But yes I will go in and "bust" 1v1, 2v1 and even 5v1 situation if the pilots invovled need help.
Tex
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which do you think happens most often in the MA enviroment ?
5 to 1 and you have to ask if they have it handled?
lol
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Originally posted by TexMurphy
But yes I will go in and "bust" 1v1, 2v1 and even 5v1 situation if the pilots invovled need help.
Pretty sad if the pilots involved need help in the second two of those situations.
- oldman
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Sometimes I really love the retarded cherry picker 5v1 mentality. I've won many, many 1v5s because all 5 of em are flying like pansy's and taking only 1 pass every 30-60 seconds. Reverse, shoot, repeat. Usually I just get in a slow flat turn on the deck and use low yo-yos to foil the dweeb 'dive straight from 2k out' attacker's plan, then pop up under someone else comming out of my yo-yo for a quick kill.
It was nice of that spit to actually turn with you. As necessary as having a turner in there is for the pickers to have a chance they almost never get the kill.
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Unless a guy clearly asks" Please stay out of this fight"...any target is up for grabs. That goes for when 2 guys are on the six of someone, and a third guy dives in and pops the enemy too. It sucks that you dont kill him...and someone else did...but Ive often had that happen. Plinking a guy thats evading, and "having my chance", only to see another guy come in and kill him. I say a quiet "Dammit"..and fly on.
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wow...u are way above the tree line. U made it sound like you were in the weeds.
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Originally posted by FiLtH
Unless a guy clearly asks" Please stay out of this fight"...any target is up for grabs. That goes for when 2 guys are on the six of someone, and a third guy dives in and pops the enemy too. It sucks that you dont kill him...and someone else did...but Ive often had that happen. Plinking a guy thats evading, and "having my chance", only to see another guy come in and kill him. I say a quiet "Dammit"..and fly on.
What he said...except without the "D****t" :D
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Originally posted by JB73
cc guppy, i follow you, and no offense... im just egtting sick of the "stay out of my fight" mentality lately...
if you are in a squad what do you do when a squadmate is getting in trouble and asks for help?
A-men brother!
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Man o man.... This reads like a soap opera.
Never got the impression that Guppy was complaining, seemed like reminising on how it could have been.
A team mate/ squad mate/ wingman is there to cover each other.
Thats what its about isin't it? thats one of the reasons you join a Squad.... To know that if there is trouble, you have help not far off and vica versa.
I would think that smart squads would travel in pairs (or more) for that reason.. ( isin't that how they did it in RL)?
I would think if you want a ("no one else get involved") 1 on 1 then check out the DA
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what I get from this thread is that it is aok to swoop into a 2,3, 4, 5 on 1 and snatch that kill in MA
it is more than Aok, it is expected
LOL, LOL, LOL
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So what is ok?
Only 1v1, 2v2, 3v3 and if anything else could occure you should whisper your enemy and ask if its ok to engage?
Seriously. Always expect to be out numbered. Always expect a higher enemy to come into the fight. Always expect the situation to change from what it currently is. Act accordingly.
Tex
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what is ok for me is that if I am 1 v1, please go find another fight
if I am 1 v 2 and I am the 1, please go find another fight
what I think is the real issue is many/most who jump into your 2,3,4,5 v1 to snag a kill, can't get one any other way or they are score potatos busy padding that tours stats for their own ego. A very very small percentage is what you describe being the wingman responsibilty bs ...
not complaining as it is funny really, just pointing out the facts, laughin at somes justification for their lame actions :)
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Originally posted by Clifra Jones
I could care less what the red guy thinks or cares about a particular fight. I will ask if a countryman needs help and if he replies yes then I'm in to do my best to get him out of the situation alive. I've even risked and lost my own planes lending a hand. Squadies get helped no matter what.
<<>> Ditto
Mac
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Edit: actually Ill just shut up.... and let the arrogance bite it self...
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Originally posted by Eagler
what is ok for me is that if I am 1 v1, please go find another fight
if I am 1 v 2 and I am the 1, please go find another fight
what I think is the real issue is many/most who jump into your 2,3,4,5 v1 to snag a kill, can't get one any other way or they are score potatos busy padding that tours stats for their own ego. A very very small percentage is what you describe being the wingman responsibilty bs ...
not complaining as it is funny really, just pointing out the facts, laughin at somes justification for their lame actions :)
Eagler, not sure which side you fly for. Don't remember seeing you as a Bish. Well, if you ever change sides or if I do and I see you getting ganged I will respect you and just fly on by.
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Originally posted by Clifra Jones
Eagler, not sure which side you fly for. Don't remember seeing you as a Bish. Well, if you ever change sides or if I do and I see you getting ganged I will respect you and just fly on by.
you have it backwards
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Sounds like people have different ideas of what the MA is all about. Is it about team play, and doing your best to conquer the map? Is it about loner dogfighting, and everone else stay out of my business?
People can sit here and bash each other all day, but it comes down to everyone is right and nobody is wrong. And trying to convince others that you are right and they should agree with you is mostly a waste of time.
Although I do get a good laugh when reading threads where people bash others because those others don't play the game their way.
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There isn't any bashing, there is one guy telling it like it is, and the other guys rationalizing. That is fine to, but what you should say is "I'll dive into any fight, no matter how stacked the odds are against the enemy, because I want an easy kill." That is all you have to say. Honesty is usually the best policy. Trying to justify it in terms of "Well, what if 3 of my squaddies are mixing it with this one guy and he is really giving them a go, is it wrong to jump in and help then?" No, it isn't wrong... as long as you are perfectly clear about what you are doing. Although, by being perfectly clear about what you are doing you are essentially saying that either A. You can't quite hack it well enough to get kills on your own, or B. Your "squadmates" are so atrocious that they actually need people to pile into a 2-3-Xv1. I think some people are uncomfortable with saying that, so they try to couch in it terms of "real life" behaviour and "smart flying".
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Originally posted by Urchin
No, it isn't wrong... as long as you are perfectly clear about what you are doing. Although, by being perfectly clear about what you are doing you are essentially saying that either A. You can't quite hack it well enough to get kills on your own, or B. Your "squadmates" are so atrocious that they actually need people to pile into a 2-3-Xv1. I think some people are uncomfortable with saying that, so they try to couch in it terms of "real life" behaviour and "smart flying". [/B]
Just because you feel that way doesn't make it truth.
When I fly my sorties, whether alone or with a wingman, I don't care if I get a kill or not, I want to accomplish my objectives, whatever that may be, and land it.
If I'm with a wingman, part of my objective is to make sure that BOTH he and I return to base. Same with my squaddies. If a squaddie gets shot down that I could save, I feel it is my fault he got shot down.
As far as "couching in it terms of real life and smart flying", aren't we flying a flight sim here? A simulator by definition is a virtual representation of real life issues. In real life, you DON'T leave a wingman or squaddie out to dry.
I swear, it seems no matter what you do in this game, you're going to get complained about.
If you bomb flight hangars, you're ruining the fun.
If you DON'T bomb flight hangars, you're a cherry picking vulture.
If you attack a base without enemies, you're a milkrunner
If you ignore defending fighters to kill buildings, you're a toolshedder
If you clear a squaddie's 6, you're a tard
If you clear a teammate's 6, you're a kill stealer
If you drive ground vehicles... well why are you using GVs in a game called ACES HIGH anyway?
If you.... etc....etc....etc....
Basically unless every fight is co-alt 1v1, with same plane, and NOT HO'ed on merge, then someone will complain. God forbid the complainers go to the DA where there actually IS co-alt 1v1 fights...
It amazes me that the two guys who've been the most level headed about the whole thing, are the two people actually involved
Guppy and Wolf.
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that's cause CorkyJr knows he would demolish Wolf14 in a fair fight, and Wolf14 knows it too :)
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Originally posted by Eagler
that's cause CorkyJr knows he would demolish Wolf14 in a fair fight, and Wolf14 knows it too :)
And they both would make me look silly. =)
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Originally posted by Knite
And they both would make me look silly. =)
And Eagler would be screaming bloody murder when I would come in to help you out....
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Originally posted by Knite
I swear, it seems no matter what you do in this game, you're going to get complained about.
If you bomb flight hangars, you're ruining the fun.
If you DON'T bomb flight hangars, you're a cherry picking vulture.
If you attack a base without enemies, you're a milkrunner
If you ignore defending fighters to kill buildings, you're a toolshedder
If you clear a squaddie's 6, you're a tard
If you clear a teammate's 6, you're a kill stealer
If you drive ground vehicles... well why are you using GVs in a game called ACES HIGH anyway?
If you.... etc....etc....etc....
Basically unless every fight is co-alt 1v1, with same plane, and NOT HO'ed on merge, then someone will complain. God forbid the complainers go to the DA where there actually IS co-alt 1v1 fights...
By jove! You've got it!!!
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It's not like anyone is looking for only 1v1's here... But I think a fair share of people who willingly go into 2,3,4 on 1's are getting just a little sick and tired of what normally happens, an example of which is as follows:
Gangers: "Oh Golly Oh Golly! All four of us took our best HO shot and missed - we're in trouble now! Please come save us - this guy isn't running!!! What on earth do we do!?!"
Sorry Knite, but Urchin nailed it. And he never said you couldn't have a wingman or three. He just said its pretty pathetic if you have to blow a bunch of alt and E to "help" your friends that already severely outnumber a guy.
Jumping into anything over a three or four on one is just overkill and bad form. No one will ever convince me otherwise.
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Originally posted by Urchin
That is fine to, but what you should say is "I'll dive into any fight, no matter how stacked the odds are against the enemy, because I want an easy kill."
Sometimes I will do exactly this but for a different reason. If I've got an alt advantage and the "fight" is nothing more than 6 of my countrymen chasing one enemy (note: more cons otw), I will attempt to swoop in and eliminiate the enemy just so my fellow countrymen playing follow the leader can return to defending the base. It's really pathetic to see an obvious push for your base in progress and more than two or three of your countrymen (who, I might add, are lucky enough to be in the air since a vulch-fest is in full swing) chansing down ONE con.
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Originally posted by Blammo
By jove! You've got it!!!
SWEET! I'm slow, but I get there! lol