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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: G0ALY on May 19, 2005, 09:10:17 PM

Title: Antique Bayonet identification, any ideas?
Post by: G0ALY on May 19, 2005, 09:10:17 PM

Howdy all! Here is today’s auction find. I picked up this 22 inch bayonet at an estate sale.
(http:// [url]http://www.MyOnlineImages.com/Members/goalyeb/images/b1.jpg[/url])

On the socket it is marked “L.B. 39. 1 C. 156”. The opening on the socket is 15/16 inch, so I’m thinking it must be from a larger caliber rifle.
(http:// [url]http://www.MyOnlineImages.com/Members/goalyeb/images/b2.jpg[/url])

There is also what appears to be a “P” stamped on top of the triangular blade.
(http:// [url]http://www.MyOnlineImages.com/Members/goalyeb/images/b3.jpg[/url])

Also there is what appears to be a very small “B” under a crown or club symbol on the bottom of the blade, and the numbers “159” or “I 59” on the connection of the blade & socket….

So… Any ideas?

Title: Antique Bayonet identification, any ideas?
Post by: hyena426 on May 19, 2005, 09:29:26 PM

hey there goaly...well its hard to tell from the pics..i cant see if it attaches onto the front site or a locking lug some were on the side of the gun barrel,,but being a triangle bayonet..its most likely from a black powder rifle or pre 1900..we have a few civil war rifles with original bayonets on them still..and they can be hard to identify..as for the crown...i take that as a good sign that its from a old enfield 58 cal..maybe even from a civil war enfield..i would look for enfield bayonets online..and see if any match...but the crown is not a perfict thing to go on to say its enfield..compainies like erfert in germany used a crown too..you will have to dig:) but im sure you will find it

Title: Antique Bayonet identification, any ideas?
Post by: Maverick on May 19, 2005, 10:19:04 PM

Just from the superficial look I got in the first photo it looks like a musket bayonet. Something similar to a Brown Bess. The locking cutout would have some better identifying characteristics.

Title: Antique Bayonet identification, any ideas?
Post by: Pei on May 19, 2005, 11:12:13 PM

I agree with Mav: the lateral  distance from the socket to the blade would indicate a muzzle loader bayonet (don't want to get your hands cut while loading do you now?).

Title: Antique Bayonet identification, any ideas?
Post by: rpm on May 19, 2005, 11:50:26 PM

DNA test the blood stains.

Title: Antique Bayonet identification, any ideas?
Post by: G0ALY on May 20, 2005, 03:59:25 AM

Thanks for the ideas so far. I should have mentioned, there is no locking cutout on the socket. Only the notch in the raised rim of the socket base showing in the second picture. This rim does not go around the entire base of the socket, but raises gradually from the bottom. It appears as though it took a “one-quarter” turn of the bayonet to lock it into whatever fit into the notch.

Also without a cut out, this would have to attach to a rifle barrel in front of the front sight. If it was equipped with one.

Title: Antique Bayonet identification, any ideas?
Post by: Maverick on May 20, 2005, 10:13:56 AM

Goaly,

The notch hooked around the front site at that cutout you described. Muskets didn't have much in the way of a front sight.

Title: Antique Bayonet identification, any ideas?
Post by: Furball on May 20, 2005, 10:53:17 AM

Quote

Originally posted by rpm
DNA test the blood stains.

THEY BE ZULU!

Title: Antique Bayonet identification, any ideas?
Post by: bustr on May 20, 2005, 01:37:02 PM

Your bayonet could be for a Martini Henry or Martini Enfeild. Rorks Drift Zulu war era British Empire, 1860's.............

Title: Antique Bayonet identification, any ideas?
Post by: Hawklore on May 20, 2005, 05:11:27 PM

It's a socket bayonet..

Most likely missing the ring that slides behind the front sight to secure the bayonet..

Def. a musket/pre-1900 rifle bayonet..

Need so better pics of the end/socket side.. could yah try and get us 4 pics of that?

Title: Antique Bayonet identification, any ideas?
Post by: VOR on May 20, 2005, 05:21:26 PM

Post it here:

http://www.gunboards.com

Someone there will be able to ID it by the markings.

Title: Antique Bayonet identification, any ideas?
Post by: hyena426 on May 20, 2005, 05:29:40 PM

Quote

Your bayonet could be for a Martini Henry or Martini Enfeild. Rorks Drift Zulu war era British Empire, 1860's

yup,,with the crown i figured it was a enfield..sence he lives in the states i bet its from a civil war gun..confederates used alot of enfields so did the union..over 400,000 enfields were sent to the states i believe

Title: Antique Bayonet identification, any ideas?
Post by: G0ALY on May 20, 2005, 11:30:02 PM

FOUND IT!

The bayonet is a Prussian Model 1809. There never was a cut out or lock ring. The cleaning/ram rod fitted into the notch on the base of the bayonet to hold it in place.

I was right about it being a large caliber … 18mm or .75cal.

Lots of information on the net about this rifle.  According to "Firearms from Europe" 165,000 Prussian 1809 – 39 conversions (from flintlock to percussion) were purchased by the Union in 1861 for usage in the Civil War.

Thanks for the input!

Title: Antique Bayonet identification, any ideas?
Post by: Hawklore on May 20, 2005, 11:35:58 PM

wow..

cool..

Title: Antique Bayonet identification, any ideas?
Post by: hyena426 on May 21, 2005, 02:32:05 AM

Quote

were purchased by the Union in 1861 for usage in the Civil War.

sweet:) much older than i thought..but it was used in the civil war like i figured