Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Wotan on May 20, 2005, 04:38:44 PM

Title: 109E Film Niagara Falls, May 13, '05
Post by: Wotan on May 20, 2005, 04:38:44 PM
Bf 109E.WMV (http://www.t6-team.de/filme/bf109e.wmv)

Won't stream for me so try 'save as'...
Title: 109E Film Niagara Falls, May 13, '05
Post by: spitfiremkv on May 20, 2005, 06:20:28 PM
need a Kleenex...
Title: 109E Film Niagara Falls, May 13, '05
Post by: TracerX on May 20, 2005, 06:26:02 PM
Very nice footage.  That looked like a nice 109, not the messed up Merlin jobs that I am so tired of seeing.
Title: 109E Film Niagara Falls, May 13, '05
Post by: JB73 on May 20, 2005, 09:23:45 PM
thats SWEET!!!!!

 that 109e sure could roll ALOT faster than ours, he did a 360 in a bit over 1 second on the film, like 1.75 maybe 2 seconds
Title: 109E Film Niagara Falls, May 13, '05
Post by: Guppy35 on May 20, 2005, 11:16:51 PM
Don't forget the 109G footage floating around from an airshow in France as well.

Looks like the guy loses it at the top before recovering.  A pretty kite nonetheless :)

Dan/CorkyJr
http://p51d20na.club.fr/bf109g_lfa.wmv
Title: 109E Film Niagara Falls, May 13, '05
Post by: Ecliptik on May 20, 2005, 11:33:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by JB73
thats SWEET!!!!!

 that 109e sure could roll ALOT faster than ours, he did a 360 in a bit over 1 second on the film, like 1.75 maybe 2 seconds


He did not complete a full 360, it was more like 270, and it was way over 2 seconds.
Title: 109E Film Niagara Falls, May 13, '05
Post by: bunch on May 21, 2005, 03:12:34 AM
thanks a ton for posting both links.
those were very fun to watch & i will certainly see them both again many times.
Title: 109E Film Niagara Falls, May 13, '05
Post by: JB73 on May 21, 2005, 03:30:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ecliptik
He did not complete a full 360, it was more like 270, and it was way over 2 seconds.
according to the time stamp on the film it is just at 2 seconds....

and it looks pretty close to a 360 to me.


what does our AH 109 e take, 5, 6 full secsonds?

there is no doubt that if that film is right, our FM on the 109e aileron authority is off.
Title: 109E Film Niagara Falls, May 13, '05
Post by: Flyboy on May 21, 2005, 04:51:44 PM
does it have an original engine or a replica?
Title: 109E Film Niagara Falls, May 13, '05
Post by: Guppy35 on May 22, 2005, 12:23:52 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Flyboy
does it have an original engine or a replica?


Original engine.  Not carrying ammo obviously so not as heavy as it would be combat loaded.

Dan/CorkyJr
Title: 109E Film Niagara Falls, May 13, '05
Post by: Loddar on May 22, 2005, 03:33:50 AM
Yes nice one :aok

Walter Eichhorn fly this Bf109E the same
as his T6. Ok, the 109 is a bit faster :rolleyes:

Saw him flown Bf109G6 too in Germany
:cool:
Title: 109E Film Niagara Falls, May 13, '05
Post by: Ecliptik on May 22, 2005, 12:32:56 PM
Are you so sure JB?  From what I see it looks like he performs little more than a 180 in 3 seconds:


At 1:32 - We see the underside of the wings, and the plane has already begun a roll to the right.

(http://www.ecf.utoronto.ca/~wilson/109e-vid1.jpg)

At 1:35 - He stops rolling, we see the top of the plane, which is still oriented in a left bank, never completing a whole 360.  From the first picture, this is more like 270 or less.

(http://www.ecf.utoronto.ca/~wilson/109e-vid2.jpg)
Title: 109E Film Niagara Falls, May 13, '05
Post by: JB73 on May 23, 2005, 11:10:29 AM
i can pause it from 1:31 or 1:32 all the way to 1:34 to 1:37 and make it look like whatever time i want....

2 seconds for 270 if you wanna call it that, our 109E takes over 5 for 270.

i can not believe you DONT see the discrepency in this film and the AHII 109E performance.

im not saying either is perfect. but that much of a varience??? that's like making a racing game where a ferrari takes 12 seconds 0-60


somewhere in there is the proper medium i think, and i think it should be looked into.
Title: 109E Film Niagara Falls, May 13, '05
Post by: Ecliptik on May 23, 2005, 12:46:30 PM
JB, I was quite careful when I did this.  I watched the clip dozens of times and paused frame by frame.  Sure, you can pause it from 1:32 to 1:34, but in that time he only does 180, if that.  I was actually very liberal in when I considered the roll to be started.  As you said yourself, I could have paused at 1:31.  I tried to pause again as soon as the rolling stopped.   Again as you said, I could have paused later, which would only have increased the time the roll apparently took.  I think everyone who watches the video and isn't blind can agree that he never completes a 360.  At no point do his wingtips return to their pre-roll orientations.   That being the case, changing the times that I paused the video would only seem to increase the time it took for the maneuver.

I never said there wasn't a discrepancy between reality and AH, because I don't fly the 109E.  But I found your claim of a 2-second 360 to be very disputable.  That's a really fast roll rate for any plane, and I think this video does not contain evidence that the 109 is capable of it.

Also, you cannot expect HTC to watch a blurry video of a 2005 109E, largely rebuilt and restored, potentially from many non-original parts, and expect them to change their flight modelling.  They mainly use wartime performance analysis documents, which are generally much more reliable.  To me, this is like watching a shaky camcorder video of a point of light in the sky and then telling everyone there is life on other planets.
Title: 109E Film Niagara Falls, May 13, '05
Post by: Kurfürst on May 23, 2005, 03:51:10 PM
How fast the 109E rolls in AH right now?
Title: 109E Film Niagara Falls, May 13, '05
Post by: Angus on May 23, 2005, 05:54:15 PM
Depends on speed.
The 109E rolled nicely at low speeds and not at all ay 400 mph.
This guy is not far above the stall anyway, so low speed.
And look at the other one when he almost looses her, oops.
Anyway, nice, - I hope more 109's will be seen in the future :)
Title: 109E Film Niagara Falls, May 13, '05
Post by: Charge on May 26, 2005, 05:29:54 AM
"And look at the other one when he almost looses her, oops."

Rich imagination. :aok

-C+
Title: 109E Film Niagara Falls, May 13, '05
Post by: Eagler on May 26, 2005, 06:54:08 AM
awesome!
thanks
Title: 109E Film Niagara Falls, May 13, '05
Post by: Mime on May 26, 2005, 09:57:58 AM
FYI

This one will be flying on the weekend of June 4.

More info here: http://www.therussellgroupairshow.com/index.php?page=program
Title: Re: 109E Film Niagara Falls, May 13, '05
Post by: afool on May 27, 2005, 02:13:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Wotan
Bf 109E.WMV (http://www.t6-team.de/filme/bf109e.wmv)

Won't stream for me so try 'save as'...


What Field in Fort Erie / Niagara Falls Canada?
I wanna go see.

afool